Martinelli rescues Arsenal against Man City but Liverpool go 5 points clear

0:00The Athletic FC.

0:30of light where the visitors opened their account with cash thanks to Robin Roof's and 10 men got on top of the villa. It's Premier League Matchday 5 on the Totally Football Show.

0:43Good evening to you if you're watching us on YouTube Sunday the 21st September or hello if you're enjoying some polished premium podcast product sometime after Monday morning at your usual platform of choice today in glorious living colour if you do join us for one of these live sunday night youtubes we've got adrian clark who's fresh back from the emirates yes yeah hello james hello everybody uh hot-footed it here from arsenal one man city one we'll get into that we'll get into that jay harris is here good evening i've hot-footed it from twickenham well you've also oh really okay well twickenham oh just you know a domicile yeah yeah right you've You've also been to a hoedown in Lewis.

1:26I did go to a hoedown in Lewis, yeah, after the Brighton game. OK. We'll talk about the Brighton game and perhaps the square dance. Yes, I think we should. In Sussex. Is that Sussex, Lewis? Yeah, I think so. Excellent. And joining us on the big screen, it's the returning Daniel Story. All right, Daniel. Hello, James. How are you? I'm very well. Love your T-shirt, by the way. Can you just lift that up for the camera a touch? Yeah. Naranjito, yeah. Very, very nice. Yeah. Daniel, you look a bit different. Something different about you. A little bit older, perhaps. Significantly older. Days older than when we last spoke.

2:01Right. Happy birthday to you, because I think it was Friday, was it, that you turned 40? Yeah, 40 years young. Finally hitting my golf age. That's so nice, so nice. Only 40. Only 40. As Adrian, as you and I know, he's very much crossing the threshold into the golden years. Yeah, he's catching us up. Golden years. Yeah. Yeah. Excellent. Did you have a good weekend anyway, Daniel? Yes, I had a lovely weekend. Burnley won, Nottingham Forest won aside. Yes, I had a great time, thank you. And I'm off to Seville this week with Forest for Betis away, which will be nice. Oh, that's grand. That's grand.

2:35We'll talk about what Forest got up to a bit, probably, but lots of other big stories too. Let's check on the results from Match Day 5 of this Premier League season. Arsenal 1, Man City 1 was the late game on Sunday. Martinelli in the 93rd minute answering Haaland's brilliant breakaway opener. rescuing a point for the Gunners but leaving Liverpool now five points clear on top of the Premier League after their 2-1 win Saturday lunchtime in the Merseyside derby. Elsewhere, Saturday also saw Man United beating Chelsea, two red cards and a 2-1 win for United. A red card apiece in that game, I should say and a 2-1 win for United.

3:14Crystal Palace, who with Liverpool are the only team yet to lose beat West Ham 2-1 on Saturday piling yet more pressure on Graham Potter. West Ham stay in the bottom three, along with Wolves and Villa. Wolves, who were the only team yet to pick up a point, lost 3-1 this time at home to Leeds. Villa, early on Sunday, finally scored their first goal of the season in the league, but could only draw 1-1 with 10-man Sunderland. Also this weekend, Ange got his first point with Forrest in that 1-1 draw away to Burnley. Spurs came back from two goals down to draw at Brighton. Follin beat Brentford 3-1, and Sunday at the Vitality and a game's very short on it.

3:51It was 0-0 between Bournemouth and Newcastle. We won't start with that. We'll begin with Arsenal Man City. This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC Podcast Network.

4:07Lifted forward here for Martinelli. Oh, what a finish.

4:15What a magical finish from Gabriel Montendelli to pull it out of the fire for Arsenal. A classy goal to finish it and it was a very classy goal to open the scoring as well from Erling Haaland. Adrian, you were there. That must have been quite the moment when after all that kind of tantric build-up for 85 minutes or so, finally Arsenal found the net. Yeah, there was a bit of a release inside the stadium, that's for sure. I got a massive hug from Amy Lawrence of this parish. She dived on me. Mid-commentary. Slightly unprofessional, but it's all right. We'll deal with it. No, it was good. It was a lovely goal.

4:56I mean, it's a sublime finish, wasn't it? I thought they were two great goals, actually, in what was, by and large, quite a hard watch for various reasons. We'll get into that. But, yeah, I think City will be kicking themselves Obviously, they got undone by one long pass straight down the middle, especially after they'd low blocked for most of the game. They get caught with a high line and Arsenal punish them. And that's something Arsenal are doing really well at the moment, actually. They flipped the ball over the top for definitely two goals this season, if not more. And this was a perfect ball from Eza.

5:30And just a great first touch on the run from Martelly. And then that little flick finish was gorgeous, wasn't it? And then, yeah, early in the game, Harland's goal was equally good for different reasons, wasn't it? Just incredible desire on his part to create that 3v2. And once he got put in, he's never going to miss. It's remarkable how many Arsenal players he goes by on his way to scoring that goal. He's 13th of the season for club and country. And a brilliant assist as well from Dijani Rinders. Yeah, look, Rinders is not a high-touch player, is he? But he's a machine in terms of his athleticism.

6:05He's a proper box-to-box guy. And when I was looking ahead to this game, all I could think about was Rinder's runs. Off the ball, on the ball, he travels with it, down the centre of the pitch fantastically, where he gets on the end of things. I think he'd made 15 runs that had ended in a shot for City ahead of this game. Only two players had made more. And, of course, this one is a brilliant run down the side of the pitch or down the middle of the pitch. And he timed the pass well. So look, two good goals. City, I thought, defended very, very well during the game. Until they didn't. Yeah, up until the moment they didn't.

6:42And Arsenal didn't have enough guile, didn't have enough bravery in possession to unlock the door until they did. You seem pretty happy with the point. Take it. Adrian, yeah? Yeah, take it. Because the heat would have been on had Arsenal lost that game. Now, I think the narrative flips a little bit. away from it. Arteta gets away with it. Arteta is, even though I think he got the starting 11 maybe wrong, he gets let off the hook. Now the story is, well, he's the first manager in history to go five games unbeaten in the league against Pep Guardiola. No one's ever done that. Wow. And Pep maybe cops a bit of flack for being mega defensive.

7:22And I think his changes obviously indicated that what he had, he wanted to hold. And he didn't quite hold it. When he took Haaland off with quite a bit of time left on the clock, City with their lowest possession ever under Pep Guardiola in this game? I think it was from the 25th minute to the 35th minute where Arsenal had 87 % possession. It was wild. And I know that he took off Haaland, but he also brought on Ake and I think he sort of went to a 5-4-1 system. And, you know, Adrian just touched upon it, the lineup that Arteta used. I'm not saying we want Guardiola to play that way, but you can sort of understand it because he's saying, I don't believe that you've got the tools at your disposal to break us down.

8:01The early goal helped them massively. I think Doku had a really good game as well. He was exactly the pressure release that City needed and there were lots of other opportunities where he was really dangerous on the counter. But I think at the same time, you have to give Arteta praise for making those two substitutions at halftime, bringing on Eze and Saka. To go into another game like this and just be so precautious. Is that even a word? To be precautionary. It's just such a shame. They obviously spent so much money in the summer getting Eze and Madueke, et cetera. And against Liverpool and today, at times it felt like the only route to go was to try and ping it long to Madueke and hope that Madueke would get past someone in a 1v1.

8:45It was a bit sterile at times. There's two styles, right? So if I bring Daniel in a sec, when Mourinho plays, I was so strong down the spine, but everything goes wide. And it's like front wingers go and do something. and Mourinho needs to get in the box and fill it and I don't think he really did that in the first half. When it's Eza in the 10 or Odegaard, Arsenal are then able to play those balls through the thirds to get higher up the pitch, quality possession, but it obviously makes them a little bit more vulnerable when they lose the ball. And Arsenal fans really do want that plan B. That's what they really want now that they've signed Eza.

9:23I thought he came on and impacted the game fabulously, actually. Well, quickly again before we let Daniel, We will let you speak eventually, Daniel. It is quite interesting that all the talk when Eze signed was he'll potentially replace Martinelli, but they're the two who combined for the goal, sort of showing actually there will be moments where Eze is required in that central position, not necessarily out wide on the left. It's about finishers as well as starters, of course, at Arsenal. Daniel, finish this one off for us. I mean, the guys have nailed it, I think, on Arsenal. I think on City, the defensive, like I completely understood the move to bring on more defenders.

9:59I think it was that, the kind of sort of buckaroo element to it in that it was fine, but I think it was bringing on John Staines. It was that last central defender. I think if you have a three-man back line, I don't think Martinelli gets through because I think the offside trap is played perfectly. But when you've got five or even six of them there, there's just so many more lines of communication that need to be right for everybody to be stepping up at the right time. And it just didn't happen. I also think it left Gianluigi Donnarumma in a position he'd not been in for the whole game, which was not having a defender within five or ten yards of him when City were defending.

10:35And I think he was in no man's land for the goal. I think he was in the wrong position. It was a brilliant, brilliant finish. And that should be the focus. But he made Martinelli's decision for him. I think if you've got a one-on-one in the final few minutes of a game in which a team's losing, so he's desperate to score, don't make the decision for the striker. Don't come out so far that you give him a huge target to aim at. And I think, you know, if the defenders have been deeper, then the long ball wouldn't have come. I think if the defenders have been deeper, then Donnarumma wouldn't have felt like he needed to be up near them.

11:04Because that's not, like, he was brilliant at what he's brilliant at today, which is, like, the flinging his fists at crosses, managing from corners, organising the defence. But the moment that he was out of his comfort zone, he was not sure where to be. And so Martin, a brilliant finish, but they just got it wrong. And that will really annoy Guardiola because he will know that as he was adding on more and more defenders, he knows that if City concede at that point, he gets it in the neck for going so defensive. And it wasn't a failure of the system as such. It was a silly decision making. But I think just having that many defenders on the pitch meant it was really hard to organise an offside trap.

11:40Buckaroo, though. Is that something you need to explain to you, Che, or not? No, I know the game, Buckaroo. Yeah, I know what it is. I don't know if it's still a thing now. It was when I was a kid. All right. I just want to praise City a little bit here. I thought it was really quite a streetwise performance until that end bit. And last season, they were flimsy without the ball, weren't they? I just don't think they were anywhere near good enough. And today, they were really good without the ball. And you can criticise Arsenal for that patient build-up that you talked about in your intro. But I did think that they were very resilient and they should take positives from that.

12:16Is this the other Pep? Is this Pep Linders who's having this impact? Might be, yeah. Is that right? I mean, have you seen a different approach? Certainly the opening goal, people were likening it to the kind of thing we'd seen. Yeah, it was a bit Liverpool, wasn't it? Yeah. Do you reckon, Daniel? Yeah, and it's been coming. You know, you look at the early games, they had 58 % possession at Wolves, which I know is more of the ball, but normally you'd expect to be more dominant than that. And they were brilliant on the counter-attack against Wolves. They had 46 % possession in the Manchester derby, which is, again, unusual.

12:48You'd expect them to want more of the ball in those games and to kind of control it. For Guardiola's teams, it's always been having the ball is the control. He is kind of learning that, particularly with Doku on that counter-attack and with Haaland's speed, there is, and with Rinders, as Adrian said, Rinders driving forward through the middle, there is a way to soak up pressure and then hit teams. And look, it almost worked against either the first, second or third best team in the country. and one of the top five teams in Europe. And it almost worked for nearly 80 minutes, basically. 80, 90 minutes, even with the injury time.

13:21So it was just that one moment, and that will be an evolution. You don't get it right overnight. I agree with Adrian. They managed the game far better than I thought they would. I thought Arsenal would win today. I thought Arsenal would score in the first half, and then City would find it quite hard to get back into the game and maybe get a little bit stretched and a bit ratty. But it was almost the opposite of that. Five points now, the gap between Liverpool and Arsenal. and a full eight points between Manchester City and the league leaders. That's a lot, isn't it, this time of the season? I don't worry too much at this stage of the season, but maybe...

13:54No, I don't think you need to worry too much. Arsenal had quite hard fixtures. OK. Yeah, look, Arsenal have only dropped points to Liverpool and City. They've played Liverpool and City. So, yeah, it does remind me a bit of last season where Arsenal are playing catch-up right from the get-go and they didn't ever get close enough. So that's a slight concern. But yeah, I'm not panicking just yet. OK. All right. Carabao Cup is up next for both of these sides. Wednesday night, Arsenal will be at Port Vale, while City head to Huddersfield. Quickly to touch on the two other games played on Sunday before we get on to Saturday's action.

14:31Bournemouth had a 0-0 with Newcastle, which you could probably say is a... Eddie Howard changed six, I think, of his starting 11 from the Barcelona game. So this was maybe a decent result against a very informed Cherries team. It is Newcastle's third goalless draw on the road. Yeah, I thought they'd be jaded. I think everyone thought they'd be jaded. I think Eddie Howe obviously thought they'd be jaded. So he made so many changes. They're just two really good out-of-possession teams, aren't they, Bournemouth and Newcastle? And yeah, they obviously just cancelled each other out. So yeah, not much of a spectacle.

15:05But it's a good point for Newcastle. It's probably, sorry, important to just point out that obviously Visser's still not played for Newcastle since he joined them because he's picked up that injury. And, you know, when you're dropping Barnes and Alanga to the bench and Gordon's, is this the final game of his suspension? Yep. Volta Marder still getting up to speed. Maybe having Visser, who is still getting to know those teammates, but is proven in the Premier League. Maybe this would have been the type of game where he could have given them an extra edge and could have started. All right. But a decent point, says Adrian.

15:36Villa also getting a point away at Sunderland, but that was perhaps less impressive, given that the promoted side were down to 10 men from about 33 minutes in. Now, Villa did actually get their first goal of the season in the Premier League, and it was a beauty as well, Daniel. It was also Villa's only shot on target between Sunderland having a man sent off and the end of the game, and it was a full-back shooting from 30 yards. Now he scored, so fine, but this is now becoming a kind of mini-crisis for Emery. Really interesting to hear him after the game saying his players were lazy, saying this has been coming, saying players aren't in the right, they're not confident, they're not in the right frame of mind.

16:13He says there's no kind of identity to the team, which is pretty worrying, really. I wonder if Europe might, you know, we talk about the energy being sapped out of playing in Europe. I wonder if it might slightly counterintuitively help Villa. They've got Bologna at home. It will be kind of Villa Park will be up for that. You get a win there. maybe that starts to kickstart the season but he keeps picking these really narrow teams with no pace in them and then kind of looking surprised when Villa are doing what Arsenal did today but doing it 15-20 yards further away from goal and the supporters don't really like it they're not creating chances Ollie Watkins has only had eight shots in five games which is nowhere near enough for a team for which he is the elite attacking player so yeah they're in a they're I mean they're in a huge pickle because they've scored one goal this season and they're still down there right and And this was an obvious test.

17:03You couldn't write a better, like, show us that you are together than promoted team away from home going down to 10 men. Like, go out and win the game. And they even got ahead. And then still, it wasn't even a surprise when suddenly an equalised. They were the better team from Villa's goal onwards. Nobody challenging Granit Xhaka for a header on the edge of the box. The ball then goes to Isidore, who scores. And it all just felt a little bit predictable that Villa were going to collapse. So, yeah, work to do. Tremendous performance from Sunderland, who are now seventh in the Premier League. I'm not sure if we're allowed to look at the table yet, but seventh in the Premier League.

17:39Leeds, fellow by promoted sides of Leeds and Burnley are 12th and 16th. Villa, as you mentioned, all the way down in 18th. I was just going to say, on that point, 32 % of all the points that the promoted clubs got last season have already got this season. So, I mean, it isn't just Sunderland. I think this is the first time since March 2024 that all the promoted clubs have played on a weekend and not lost against other teams. So there is a definite shift. We look like we might finally have a relegation battle. And all my pre-season doom about no competition at the bottom looks to be, as ever, complete hogwash.

18:17They've got to be better, Villa, at having the ball. And I think, barring the first day of the season against Newcastle, they've had the majority of the ball in all of the games since and looked devoid of ideas. They've got to be much better. I mean, that narrowness that Daniel talks about is a massive issue. And I also feel that there's a clear disconnect between Emery and the players. And I think this is quite serious. I do. I just don't see a team that is, you used the word together, Dan. They don't look together to me. Do you think this is partially because they just had quite an erratic summer?

18:51They signed Evan Gesson from Nice, but then, you know, they only managed to get Harvey Elliott and Jadon Sancho over the line to find a few days at the window, Lindelof on a free transfer. I know Rashford and Asensio were only on loan, but they were players who provided the spark in the latter stages of the Champions League last season. And just that sort of all these issues around PSR just sort of crippled what they could do in the transfer window. and it just meant that they didn't really refresh and kick on the squad in the way that maybe it needed to be. Quite possibly. Or maybe they just came up against a black cat side that was battling in front of the home support.

19:25Good noise. Gave it their all. Good noise. It was tremendous. I jumped across from the Bournemouth-Newcastle game. What did you think of the red card? What did I think of the red card? I was watching Bournemouth-Newcastle at that point. What as in? They were now there. What did you think? I didn't. Yeah. Yeah, it was quite a small screen in the media room. And I looked at it, I was like, it didn't look like I read to me. I can't remember what the example is, maybe Daniel will know, but it happened a few years ago where someone sort of kicked back into someone's nether regions. I can't think of what the previous example was.

19:58Right, nothing to do with, say, 1998, wasn't that? It's not that one. There's another one that's more recent. Okay, all right then. Well, we'll have a ponder on that, but with a salute to the Black Cats, who continue to thrill. Let's get on to some of Saturday's games next.

20:19This is the Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. The Athletic is the only place you can read articles by Daniel Taylor, Amy Lawrence, Phil Hay, James Pearce, Olly Kaye and the very best football writers around. Slate grey skies above Anfield today. All the heat being supplied by the crowd inside and that's Drammenberg! What a finish! Game which kicked the round off. It was Anfield, it was a Mid-Side derby. Liverpool once again beating Everton there. 2-1 the score. A lot of love for the opening goal from Ryan Gravenberg. Daniel, did you enjoy that? I just love Ryan Gravenberg this season in general.

21:00He's been the best player in the country. So far this season, he's everywhere. I mean, it was an amazing finish. In the Premier League, he's the best. He's been the best so far this season, yeah. Because Liverpool have been really erratic and chaotic. And I think he's the reason that they've won five games in a row. It's only the fifth time in their history they've done that in the top flight. And they haven't looked brilliant. But he's not only coming up with the moments like here, but he's just everywhere. He's made the most tackles of any Liverpool player in his defensive third. He's getting up the pitch.

21:30I actually think he gets up the pitch more when Florian Verts isn't there because he's able to kind of, everybody's allowed to have a go. Each of the three can do it when Virts isn't there. And yeah, I mean, it was a brilliant finish just because I think the commentators said like it looks better on every viewing and it was exactly that because in full pace, it just looked like he connected with the past. But Adrian will know this far more than me, but to me, they're the hardest finishes. Like it's not a half volley, the ball's not on the floor, it's not a volley. It's like he's bounced up in an awkward angle.

21:59You wouldn't want to shoot from that position unless you had to. and yet he's running onto the ball and also knows novices like me would try and hit that too hard whereas he knows exactly how he has to guide it rather than try and strike it. It's a phenomenal finish. Yeah, it is classy. Yeah, use the word there, guide. He just used the pace of the ball and he just sort of clipped it, hasn't he? On the run, at full speed, that is a really hard improvised finish to produce. I actually thought his pass for Eketike was almost as good, to be honest. Just inch perfect, wasn't it? Perfect weight. That was a nice, smooth goal, wasn't it?

22:35From Liverpool. Basically taking the b****, aren't they? Isak and Verz. The two... Sorry. Apologies. The two most expensive players in British football history on the bench. Just start them on the bench. You know, still win. Also taking the mickey, Everton felt was the referee. Did he have a train to catch, do you think? One minute of time added on at the end of the first half. And then, perhaps more egregiously, at the end of the second, when Everton were very much in the ascendancy because of Liverpool's habit of going two goals up and then letting the other team back in. Only three minutes there.

23:10I don't know. People have talked about the late goals and the fact Liverpool needing late goals. Is that a big thing? But this issue of this is the fourth time this season when they've gone two goals up and then let the other team in, back in. How much for concern is that? Or when you've won five out of five and a five point's clear, are you not actually all that bothered? Yeah, I think their answer will be, and I think it's probably the right one, is that we can get better. Not just in terms of game management, or I think that, as you say, that has been an issue. But some of the defensive positioning, you know, the integration of Wurz and Isaac and Jeremy Frimpong, to be honest, because we've not really seen him as much as we thought, certainly not as a kind of overlapping attacking threat because of Mohamed Salah.

23:53if they do get better, then they'll win the league because they're five points clear at the moment and they're getting it done. Yeah, it's kind of frightening for everybody else. I think we all knew that there would be a transition period where Liverpool had to get to grips with Izak in the front line and with Virts in those kind of half spaces in front of the defence because it was so set, that formation last season. But I don't think we all thought that that transition would involve them winning every league game. Arnie Slott pointing as well to the pretty strenuous week that Liverpool had had three games in seven days and this one being the early kick-off on the Saturday performing its traditional role as Liverpool manager

24:34that was Liverpool then winning again and this straight after their victory against Atletico Madrid in the Champions League midweek what load to make of Man United with their second win of the season, a 2-1 victory over Chelsea, Man United taking advantage of an early red card for the Chelsea keeper, Robert Sanchez. But then it was their own aggressive front-footed play that had caused that red card. Is this lift-off? Is it? I think it's too early to say it's lift-off, but it is a big win, isn't it? It is a big win. That red card incident, you're right. That is kind of what they do quite well.

25:17And the personnel, that wouldn't have happened if Seshko isn't playing. and it wouldn't have happened if they hadn't assigned Mbomo. It's a lovely little flick. And Mbomo's made run after run after run, hasn't he, this season? He's made more runs beyond the defensive line than any other player in the Premier League. He could have scored a lot more goals, I think, Mbomo this season. And it's a definite red, isn't it? I mean, it's denying a goal-scoring opportunity and it's also quite dangerous. So I think they can have no arguments, Chelsea. What I would say is that did Maresca overreact with a double sub?

25:53So he took off Neto and Esteval and then shortly afterwards had to also take off Cole Palmer, although I don't think that was planned. That was groin issue, is that right, Joe? I think that's what he said after the game, but whether that's completely true, I guess, remains to be seen. Yeah, but if he had to make a double sub and he wasn't sure about Palmer's fitness, surely he should have been part of that double sub. Exactly, exactly. I think he messed up Maresca here. and ultimately it kind of did cost them. Okay. Just on Sanchez, he's just not that great of a goalkeeper, is he? I'm just being honest.

26:30And I know you're talking about, is this a liftoff moment for Man United? I think it has to be a little bit of an asterisk because Sanchez got sent off so early and it's such a massive advantage. But there's just been so many times during his time with Chelsea and even I think when he was at Brighton before, where Sanchez just makes really silly errors. I just had a quick look before we went on air and there's that one where Haaland lobs him when he runs out to the edge of the area. There was a goal against Wolves where I think he drops the ball on Doherty's head. There was a game against Brighton where he basically passes it straight to Belaber.

27:01If Chelsea want to be a top four team that's pushing to challenge for the title, I really don't think that he's the goalkeeper to take them there. And so it's quite strange they spend all this money on new wingers when I actually think what they probably should have done was upgraded the goalkeeper. Well, I act like saying, why didn't Chelsea go all out for Donnarumma when goalkeeper has been a problem position with her? What did you make of Robert Sanchez's backup, Jorgensen then? I guess he did okay. Really? Yeah. He looked terrified, poor chap. Yeah. Yeah. Chelsea then did get a route back into the game when Casemiro, who'd scored the second goal for Man United, then himself got sent off for a second yellow.

27:43but despite pressing... I'm trying to remember the end of that game. How close did Chelsea come in the end? So they scored with the first shot on target, which was Chalaboz's goal. And then there was that inevitable pressure towards the end because there was, I think, seven minutes of injury time. Yeah, so Manchester United sat deep. But they never... I mean, Chelsea didn't deserve anything out of the game. Well, he took off all the good players. He took all the good attackers were off. So, you know... Yeah, true. I mean, I think one thing on United, I think having Nassim Masuari as the right wing-back is a massive deal.

28:17I think in the last few weeks, we've seen how probably Patrick Dorgue has had to do too much. We know how important those wing-backs are. And Amarim has tried Diego Dallo there, who I think is a better defender than Masuari. And he's tried Amad Diallo there, who's certainly a better attacking threat than Masuari. But it might well be that Masuari is the kind of the blend of both needs. I went back and looked. And the last seven games, he started as right wing-back for Manchester United. So they've beaten Villa, Chelsea and Leicester and they're drawn with Arsenal and Bournemouth. Now, Man Utd fans don't need me to tell them that the average Manchester United return is a lot less than those seven games.

28:53So it suggests that without him, they struggle. I think he is the best at doing that. I think he can play right back and he can play right centre-backs. He's got the defensive element, but he can also push forward and overlap. And if they get that balance right between the wing-backs, I think that helps. But no, I mean, to answer your initial question, it absolutely isn't lift-off because by the end of the game, it was a sort of clown show between both teams. Both had managed to... Manchester United had a season advantage by Chelsea shooting themselves in the foot and then Manchester United had desperately tried to give it back with a 2-0 lead by Casemiro getting self-sent off.

29:25And then they then invited pressure at the end of the game because Chelsea came back into it. So, no, TBC firmly. OK, although Amarim had talked previously about a lack of... I can't remember the word he used, but it was something like energy or aggression. And you did see that from, and I think you've seen it maybe in some other games from Man United this season without getting a win necessarily from them. So it's positive that that's there, he said. But okay, if the jury's still out on that, we'll move on to other things that happened this weekend. Jay, you headed down to Brighton for, amongst other things, Brighton-Tottenham.

30:05I did, yeah. What an exciting game this was. Yeah, it was a good game. It featured a cracking goal from Ayari. And it's quite strange. If I've got my dates right, so Arsenal came back from 1-0 down against Man City nearly a year to the day Man City came back from a goal down against Arsenal. And Spurs have come back from 2-0 down against Brighton nearly a year to the day where Brighton came back from two goals down against Spurs. On that occasion, they lost 3-2 and it was a defeat that really punctured the momentum under Postacoglu. They don't win, but the fact they came back and got a point, I think was really big for Spurs and Thomas Frank.

30:44They've been excellent defensively the season, and this was a different challenge. Called it their most complete performance of the season, which I don't completely agree with. What do you think he meant, given that they've had victories over Man City and this was a two-to-draw with Brian? I think what he was trying to say was that in the second half when Xavi Simons comes off the bench in the 61st minute, they were fantastic. Now, there's been a lot of chat in the Spurs world about is Simons going to play on the left wing? Is he going to play as a number 10? I actually think that chat's followed him throughout his whole career that he's never really settled in one particular position.

31:19His first two games he plays on the left wing and he looks good. But yesterday he was fantastic. The way he drove forward with the ball, created multiple chances for his teammates. I think in his first seven minutes on the pitch, he had three shots and the third one he should probably score he just gets a bad connection with it he just looked so lively and as I mentioned so far Spurs have been excellent defensively under Thomas Frank they score a lot of goals from set pieces but I think open play they haven't looked good and I think yesterday was that final half an hour was like oh okay they're looking good defensively they're looking very good going forward and this was sort of a sign of what may be to come under Thomas Frank Excellent and how did Brighton look?

31:58Well sort of the one of the main talking points after the game was Carlos Beléba. I can't tell you how many questions I had to ask about Beléba because he was a little bit erratic in possession at times and he got taken off at half time and Herzl was talking about how it was more to do with tiredness but then also said, you know, it's only natural he's 20 years old. There's been a massive offer from him from Manchester United and, you know, a young player's development is not linear. It goes in peaks and troughs. So that was sort of the main talking point. I think Minter was excellent. I think him and Destiny Adoggi had a fantastic battle on that side of the pitch.

32:35And this was Adoggi's first start of the season after recovering from a knee injury. And Minter just took his goal exceptionally well. He's great talent. And so I think Matoma and Ruta were a little bit more quieter, but there were still some good things on show from Brighton. Richarlison scoring his 14th goal in his last 19 league starts. On Richarlison, he's such a strange player because in the build-up to Brighton's second goal, he goes down under a challenge from Jan-Paul Van Hecker. And Richarlison probably exaggerates contact quite a lot. It probably is a foul, but he then just stays down for an extended period of time.

33:16And I think that then gets into his teammates' heads. You know, the phase of play continues to go on. Spurs sort of half clear at Ayari scores. and I think it all stems just from Richarlison getting knocked down, just get back up and get on with it. But then he'll score. He's got that great goalscoring record. It's quite strange because you watch him sometimes and he's very clunky, he's a bit awkward. You look at someone like Dominic Solanke when he's on the ball and he's far more graceful. But Richarlison is the one who just somehow manages to put the ball in the back of the net sometimes. He's a funny player to watch.

33:48Very quickly on Minte. I think he's had a blinding start to the season. It looks to me like he could really kick on in a sort of, I don't know, Jean-Philippe Mateta kind of way, where you don't think he's initially that great. And then he becomes someone that delivers consistently. What I loved was in a 1v1, he didn't go for a dinky finish. He went around the goalie. I mean, it was old school, wasn't it? It was nice. Daniel would appreciate this as someone who's now over 40. Real Ronaldo. Yeah, exactly. It was lovely to see a player go around a keeper in such smooth fashion. Excellent. Very shortly, we'll hear what Matete himself got up to this weekend and the rest of the weekend's action on this Totally Football Show.

34:39You're listening to the Totally Football Show with James Richardson. Now we do four times a week. Keep up to date with us on Insta and enjoy some glorious Technicolor on YouTube at The Totally Show. It's been a big weekend across the continent, aren't they always? This time around we had the Rome Derby and Jose Mourinho taking the reins at Benfica. 25 years to the day after his first game in charge of the Eagles back in 2000. And he debuted this time around with a 3-0 win. So well done him. Benfica lies second in the Portuguese table. Five points behind Porto, his old side, but another outside of his but they have a game in hand.

35:18In Germany, Harry Kane had another hat-trick as Bayern clocked up another big win continuing their perfect start to the season. Of course, they beat Chelsea midweek in the Champions League but Tony Ford will show European edition will do as fine a job as possible of fleshing out all those stories when we're with you first thing on Tuesday so do look out for that. WSL action this weekend meantime was overshadowed as you may well have seen, by the sudden passing of the former Liverpool women's manager, Matt Beard, at the age of just 47. Matt, who'd won the WSL title twice with Liverpool, also been in charge of West Ham and Chelsea in a 17-year managerial career, is actually the most successful manager in Liverpool's history.

36:05Their game with Aston Villa was postponed, and our deepest condolences to his friends and family and the team, of course. Of course, lots of other things did happen and the games that went ahead. You can find all the details on The Athletic. Back to the Premier League. And should we have a word about West Ham Crystal Palace? A game which saw Palace winning 2-1 and West Ham, consequentially, losing their third straight London derby at home. Look at the situation. I'll see if there's any word on whether these rumours of a return from Slavin Bilic or one or two other exotic names might have any grounds in reality.

36:51But first of all, Crystal Palace, that's now 17 games unbeaten in all competitions, which is their best run since 1969. Lots of Palace supporters writing on on the Palace message boards. Tony E saying, what a time to be a Palace supporter. for nearly 60 years. I've been following the club. There's never been a time like this. Ray Kay says, we need to put up a sign that says these are the good old days because that's exactly what we're currently getting. It's magnificent, Daniel. Yeah, it's extraordinary. So last October, they lost 1-0 at the City Ground. And at that point, they'd won two of the last 17 away games and they're in the bottom three.

37:29And they haven't won any of their eight Premier League games to that point. Since then, they've only lost two away games. Since the beginning of December last year, they've got four more away points than any other team in the country, more than Liverpool and Arsenal, who are second and third in that table. It's just absolutely ridiculous. I still think it's a case of them having excellent players and other teams still underestimating how good they are away from home because they can't quite believe it. And they have this way of identifying weaknesses in each opposition and then just exploiting them in the same game.

38:02And that's pretty much the definition of a brilliant football manager. And that's what Glaser is. Their new thing is now just sort of swatting aside established Premier League teams in their own backyard. So since then it's what? Brighton, Fulham, Manchester United, Spurs, Villa, West Ham. They win them all. And yeah, it's not a fluke. I know that people see them winning a trophy and see them getting into Europe as a kind of little guy's done well and rub them on the head and they'll go back. But under Glaslam, there's no reason to think they won't get better. He's absolutely brilliant at what they do.

38:37The worry is that this is the last season, but every Palace fan I speak to says, well, yeah, we're not worried about that because, as you say, these are the times of our lives. So why would we care about next season now? And you've already seen Olize move on and them cope with that. We've seen Eze move on and they've coped with that. And Zaha before that. And I've had Gehi see a move collapse at the last minute. The fact, I'm curious to hear, Adrian, your thoughts on why they're able to absorb those departures so well. Perhaps the fact that it is, with the people leaving a side, it is a very settled side because they don't go out and buy too many players.

39:16It's completely settled. And I think it's just the construction of the side absolutely suits the system that they play. They play the same system as Manchester United. but each player in Palace's side is absolutely perfect for the position they're asked to perform. That's what they were born to do. You look around Manchester United's side and you can pick out four or five players that would prefer to play in a different position or a different system. So he's meticulously built the system around the players that he inherited. And it's not a fluke. I mean, I think only one team's created more big chances than Palace.

39:53It's not like they're soaking up games and nicking results. They're actually outplaying teams now. I mean, this was a 2-1 trouncing, wasn't it? They had 18 shots. Their XG was almost two and a half. They're just really, really strong sides, as that long unbeaten run would suggest. West Ham misery latest. Does anyone have any info on this? What's the kind of buzz around journalistic circles? Well, yeah, just the suggestion that I guess they'd consider bringing Slav and Bilic back, which sort of just tells you everything you need to know about the direction that the board are going in. I think there were more protests during the game anyway, weren't there.

40:35Do you think they were just feeling out the fans for public opinion? Do you know what I mean? Sometimes a little story like that drops and it's almost just a test the gauge. Would Hammers fans be up for this or not? And I would imagine that that gauge was a negative one, right? They're looking at what desperate levers can we pull to get the fans back on side. I do think, you know, obviously Graham Potter is the sort of the figurehead at the moment. But West Ham's recruitment has been pretty poor for a long period of time. Just look at all the strikers that they've burned through. We were just talking a second ago about Crystal Palace.

41:09But when we were talking about Zaha, Eze Alise, there was a succession plan for all of them. You know, Alise didn't replace Zaha right away. Eze didn't replace Zaha straight away. They were given time to sort of grow and develop. And there's never been any consistent plan at West Ham. Obviously, they've bounced around between different managers over the last couple of years. I think Potter changed his goalkeeper this weekend as well. It just smacks of not just a team, but a club that don't know what they want to be long term. So they just keep reacting to what happens in the short term. Very quickly, on the West Ham and the corners issue, like, was it seven?

41:46Seven conceded from a corner this season. And Lacroix hit the bar as well. It's only the fifth week. Honestly, it's nuts. I think that dropping Hermansen was unnecessary, in my opinion. Like, you just signed him. Well, presumably he conceded six of those. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he maybe was partly culpable. The Chelsea game, he didn't cover himself in glory. But I've watched these West Ham matches. I've looked at all these corners. And the setup is diabolical. So what is their setup? Is it zonal, man-marking, or hybrid? It's mainly zonal. But, like, it was one of the games, was it the Spurs game?

42:22I was working on it. I was co-commentating. And they just leave so many people unmarked. And on this game, I think there was a 3v2 on the penalty spot. And they just rolled with it, hoping that that 3v2 wouldn't hurt them. You know, there's no thinking. Yeah, they sort of crowd that six-yard box with zonal markers. But no one seems to be looking around. to see what's going on around them. And I think it's just really poor. A lot of people look at West Ham and say the problems go much deeper than just changing a manager. But from the sound of it, he also bears quite a lot of responsibility. What I would say is after that Chelsea game, I would have almost ripped it up and started again or worked overtime on something different.

43:09But to my eyes, there's nothing different from that Chelsea game to the way they set up in the Palace game. It's the same mistakes have been made over and over and over again. And that is on the manager. What are you doing? You're the manager. Surely you're analysing the goals you're conceding. It doesn't look to me as if they're doing anything different to change it. That's how I look at it. All right. Problems then for West Ham Palace. You mentioned Europe. Of course, they're in the Conference League, regrettably, which means they won't get to play this week. Next week, they're away at Dynamo Kiev.

43:45That's where they'll have their opening game in Europe. Leeds. Oh, well, talking about teams down the bottom having a miserable time. Wolves. Wolves, who hosted Leeds this Saturday afternoon, took the lead, actually, but then saw their visitors storm back and win 3-1. Leeds scoring with three of their four shots on target, which is commendable, as is the fact that we had summer signings Dominic Cavalewin, Anton Stack, and Noah Okafor all getting their first goals. for Leeds. That's nice, eh, Daniel? Yeah, it is. And Leeds were really good. Calvert-Lewin was really good. Not just his header was brilliant, you know, power, getting some power on quite a loopy cross.

44:26Brilliant precision header. And also really good in open play, kind of interchanging play. It's something he really struggled on when the injuries hit at Everton. He would miss chances, and that was always the headline, but it was that he was not doing as much in open play. And he was really good here. I mean, it helps when you're playing Wolves, who are absolutely terrible. I mean, they gave a contract to Vita Pereira this week. And I think that was a kind of, we know there's a crisis, but trust us. Like, the plan is the plan and Pereira is the right guy. And I think he is a very good coach. He's been left down by some more shoddy recruitment.

45:02There were protests or there were certainly boos and chants against the owners at the weekend because they've effectively sold their good players and replaced them with potential and then ask that potential around other potential, just hit the ground running. And it's no surprise it hasn't worked. The most alarming stat for Wolves is that Everton and Leeds this season have scored 10 league goals between them in their 10 games. Six of those 10 goals have come at Molyneux in a 3-1 and a 3-2 win. So they're not even playing, facing good attacking teams at home. The City game aside, they're routinely terrible and they've got the best manager I think they could have in this situation because I don't think they'll be able to persuade Nuno to come back.

45:44But they've got it wrong and they know they've got it wrong now. It's kind of classic football manager, OK, I'm just going to turn this off and do the summer again because we pretty much got every decision wrong, it seems to me. They've left Pereira with a squad in which the defence is not good enough and the striker is good enough in Larson. And I know he's signed a new deal, but he's not fully fit. There's raw potential around him. three of the players at the weekend I barely heard of a year ago. So it's really worrying there. I know Wolves fans from being at that ground when it turns and it gets nasty and it gets tetchy and angst-ridden really quickly and they are at that stage big time and it's September.

46:26Crikey. Five defeats out of five. This one coming against a team you would imagine to be a relegation rival in a newly promoted side. Wolves, by the way, and Sheffield United, the only two pointless teams in the entire league football structure. Sheffield United losing this weekend in Chris Wilder's first game back. That was at home to Charlton. Daniel, what did Forrest do away at Burnley and why was it so upsetting for you? Well, no, I mean, they got their first point. I think it sort of hammered home to me. First point underage? Indeed, yeah. I mean, they pointed in with four straightaway games, the fourth of which is at Betis this midweek, which is pretty much a hospital pass.

47:12It's all a hospital pass, right? They're completely trying to change the system. There's a stat I found this weekend, and it basically sums up the whole thing perfectly, which is that last season, Forest ranked 20th for tackles in the final third. So like high pressing, trying to make tackles. 67 all season. They now rank first in the Premier League by that metric. So it's complete night and day. It's completely turning a club upside down. Some of that started to happen under Nuno or attempted to, but then they've obviously gone in on the guy who is that to the absolute max and asked him to do it without a pre-season.

47:46So it's really hard to see how it works quickly. I think if it does work, then Forrest will be fine. And if it doesn't, then Andrew will probably be out of a job by Christmas because that's how Forrest are going to work in the desperation to stay up. But it's, yeah, they were better than Burnley for the most part. They have been good under Andrew in an attacking sense. and to the surprise of absolutely nobody, they have looked like panic stations every time the ball gets within 25 yards of their own goal. And that's how it will be for a while. They have Sunderland at home next weekend, which in the minds of most Forest fans I know already feels like a massive game because if they don't beat Betis and I think a draw would be a good result there, they will have played four games, sorry, they will have played five games under Anja, not 1-1.

48:27And suddenly everyone will be saying, well, we got rid of the guy who took us to seventh for this. I know it wasn't quite as simple as that, but you didn't have to appoint Andrew Poggioglu. We didn't have to kind of go all in on the chaos, tactical chaos. And that is what they look like at the moment. You weren't with us last week after the news of Andrew's appointment had come. Your take is less positive, I'm getting, than the ones that we had here in the studio that day. I think I would be supporters all knew that the intention was to change the tactical strategy this summer, Partly because the owner wants to play more attacking, attractive football.

49:04Partly because he thinks that that will attract better players. And partly because there was a sense towards the end of that season that the players were quite knackered and that they'd probably been found out a little bit in terms of that soak up pressure encounter. But to do it, so if on the end of May they'd have said Nuno's not going to sign a new deal, he's going to go. There would have been widespread, oh my God. But also we get, I kind of get what's happening and that you want to change the style. but to have the situation where Nuno then gets annoyed about relationships in the club he then comes out it then all ends three weeks into a season after he's been thoroughly grumpy for the whole pre-season to then go for a guy who I think you could give Ange Posikoglu two pre-seasons with Forest squad and it would be quite hard to make them defensively organized with pretty passing football because it's a complete gear change so to do it effectively in one international break ahead of four away games is just, is absolutely bizarre to me.

49:59And the problem is you have to take fans with you, with your decisions. And Nuno left in such circumstances that, you know, we're told reports in The Athletic said that, you know, people didn't even get a chance to, players didn't get a chance to say goodbye to Nuno. He just left. And then you turn up at training after the international break and suddenly there's this avuncular Aussie guy who's telling you he wants you to sprint in the final third and the fullbacks are going to be playing near the opposition corner flags. It's really hard to make it work. And I really hope it does because it will mean Forest are incredibly entertaining.

50:28And I can see why fans of other 19 clubs are thinking this is going to be incredibly fun to watch. It's a heck of a leap of faith that Forest are an established Premier League club that can't go down, I think. Currently lying 15th at the table. It does sound like it's going to be entertaining one way or another. There you go. 1-1 draw anyway. Their first point under Ange. They picked up points before the undernate, haven't they? They beat Brentford. Yeah. Yeah, Brentford, right. And that brings us on to the other game from this weekend. Jay, over to you for Fulham's 3-1 win against the Bees, your former beat.

51:04Yes. Firstly, I think all Brentford fans probably despise Harry Wilson because I think he's now scored in three games in a row against them. And it was a really well-taken goal and it was a fantastic pass from Alex Iwobi. I think I sort of alluded to it last week. We are just sort of seeing with Brentford, when you let your head coach, captain, first choice goalkeeper, your two top goal scorers leave and appoint someone who'd never had or held a senior coaching role before, it's going to take a little bit of time to sort everything out. And I think my worry is that it will be an ugly season for Brentford and they'll get dragged into the relegation battle, which they pretty much avoided during Thomas Frank's time in charge.

51:51I think there are some good young players in that squad. I don't look at that team anymore and think they've got an Ivan Toni or a Christian Eriksen or a Brian Mbwemo or a Jürgen Wisser who's playing at the top, top level. Damsgaard had a great season last year, which no one saw coming because his first couple of years at Brentford have been underwhelming, to say the least. I need to see a little bit more before I put him in the same category as the others. So I just fear a little bit that it's an inexperienced head coach taking charge of a team in transition and too many things have changed all at once.

52:26And I think when Keith Andrews is coming out after the game, after a derby saying, you know, we're a little bit sloppy and we didn't do the basics right, you never want to hear that after a game. You don't want to hear it after any game, to be honest. but particularly against a derby where you've not had the greatest record in the last couple of years. All right, Fulham very much with the upper hand over their neighbours of late. That is now three straight victories over Brentford. And when we look at Fulham, what do we... Oh, it's a great goal. I mean, the one I liked the most was the Wilson goal.

52:58The Freakone goal? No, I like the Wilson finish. All right, OK. From the... We talked about Gravenbert's great pass for Iketike. it was a slide rule pass. Alex Iwobi? Alex Iwobi. Absolute perfection. But the fact that Wilson took it one touch, he took it so nonchalantly one touch in the corner. I just thought that, I mean, you talk about sort of like a PlayStation goal or whatever. Like it is a bit like that. Do you know what I mean? The instant one touch finish. He made it look like it was almost AI. It was so easy. Daniel said it earlier with Gravenberg's effort where many people in that scenario would have just hit it as hard as they could.

53:35but he sort of softly guides it into the corner. Yeah, but that's what you can do. I think he'd already scored six goals in his career against Brentford. This was number seven. Spot on. Yeah, absolutely spot on. Danny, anything you want to add to that? Yeah, I just wanted to say about Alex Weber. He's been brilliant since he joined Fulham. What I really liked at the weekend is it shows how he's become a bit of a leader there because I think it was Josh King, wasn't it, that made the mistake for the Brentford goal. He plays the pass across his, a blind pass from a midfielder, like the one pass you don't play.

54:06And you could immediately, Iwobi kind of just grabbed hold of him and gave him this massive pep talk and built him back up and was like, look, don't worry about it. We'll sort it out. And then within 20 minutes, Iwobi scored and set up a goal. I think that's a side of Iwobi's game I didn't know about, but he's stepped up in so many ways since he joined Fulham. I think he's one of the most underrated midfielders in the country now because he can do it all. He can start out wide. He can start in the middle. He can drift from side to side. He's great on the counterattacks. He's got speed, but he can also protect the ball really well.

54:42He's kind of the perfect Marco Silva player, I guess, in that he doesn't need that much instruction. He just runs the game. And that's when he was at Arsenal and then at Everton. I just never saw that coming in any way. He must be the most surprising Premier League player the last few years because he has kicked on so much at Fulham. He has kicked on, but I remember seeing him at Arsenal as a centre mid sometimes. And as a kid, he started off as a striker, like a... mainly a support striker. He really can do it. He can play any midfield or attack position. So yeah, no, good luck to him. Of course, he's got now Kevin breathing down his neck, hasn't he?

55:21Obviously, he might get moved to the other flank, Iwobi. We'll have to see what happens. I mean, Kevin was less effective in this game, but that debut that he had in the previous match was something else, wasn't it? And he is the record signing in the position that Iwobi is playing. So it's going to be interesting to see what Marco Silva does with it. Also, I want to mention the disallowed goal for Rodrigo Muniz, a genuine net buster, like absolute rocket, wasn't it? and I just didn't think it was a foul it really wound me up Colin's mouth afterwards it used to come in together those are coming together get on with it I thought it was really quite cruel to miss out on that so there you go there you go it's a competitive you know football's a contact sport Jay he's elbowed him in the mouth don't be such a wussy I'll just do that next Sunday game I know if someone's got a bloody mouth it doesn't mean it was a foul I get it it happens a lot you know you could disallow a lot of goals for clashes like that I get it maybe it's my Brentford bias that's saying you know excellent well there you go that was match day 5 of the Premier League that pretty much wraps it up for this Totally Football show we've got the Euro show with you Tuesday with James and Jules and Paul and Seb Stafford and hopefully you listener and then of course Thursday we'll be back to talk about probably the Premier League match day six.

56:50For now, though, many, many thanks to Daniel, to Jay, to Adrian, to Jake and producer Charlie in the Booth and you. Thanks so much for joining us. We'll be back with you soon for now from all this here. It's goodbye.

57:05You've been listening to The Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. For more great podcasts just like this one, including The Athletic FC and our dedicated club podcasts, search for The Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. We're also at The Totally Football Show on Insta and at The Totally Show on YouTube. The Totally Football Show is an Athletic Media Company production.