More Real points dropped, Milan top + could PSG really be stopped?

0:00The Athletic FC

0:30The other is the Totally Football Show.

0:39Monday the 1st of December. Christmas is just around the corner. And we're going to be enjoying the presence of Jules, James and Seb. Hi everyone. Hi there guys. Hi Jim boy. Hello. Who's that other guy who used to pitch up on these shows? The Spanish dude. The Spanish dude. The Catalan man. Yes. Paul Belus, once again, late, but not lunch this time. I think he's at Hansi Flick's press conference in which Hansi Flick is probably addressing the issue of why he looks so morose after Barcelona's win at the weekend. Were you morose this weekend, Jules? PSG got beat. Yeah, I know. That was not good.

1:19It was the worst performance of the season. This is obviously not my moment of the weekend, as you can imagine. There's always the next game, you know? Yeah. part of the issue is Ligue 1 is just so strong right now too strong for PSG perhaps as you yourself were pointing out right now got a French team second in the Champions League first in the Europa League and second in the Europa Conference League as well yeah and Premier League teams can't get a win in France either you know three games three wins for the French teams I wonder where the Farmers League is really is this what happens when you don't have a TV deal like you you sort of gets stronger.

1:57You galvanize. Also, teams just don't know what to expect when they play you. Yeah, because nobody can watch on TV. Exactly. So true. So true. James, you're well? Of course, James. Excellent. James and I shared a pizza evening at the Italian Embassy. Thanks, Italian Embassy. That was last week. Yeah, we didn't get to try the winning pizza though, did we? Which was the winning pizza? I don't know. Although one of my neighbours, she had a stand at this 50 best pizzeria the ballon d 'or of pizzas taking place at the excel uh center or the excel spreadsheet maybe yeah so we didn't get to try did we james we did get some very good pizza bianca yeah with like a mortadela and uh yeah very tasty very tasty seb how's your weekend been yeah nice sat on the sofa watch television watch football re-watch the West Wing had a nice time oh yeah which season I've just started season two once a year I'll try and re-watch it just as a kind of he survives Seb he survived he does he does he does although James I've got worries about Josh because he seems to have been struck in a more more critical way by the bullet yeah so hanging in the balance I missed out on the West Wing me too the politics of the West Wing are very different to the politics of today it is The general mood is quite different to today, I think.

3:20I feel it almost would be like watching a clever satire about the world being flat after they discovered that it wasn't actually. Do you know what I mean? The kind of world in which it kind of existed with a lot of justified praise is just so utterly vanished. But anyway, that's the subject for a different podcast, not one about European football. So let's get some European football moments of the week. Seb, you go first. i'm going straight to the vox park because on sunday afternoon fabio vieira arsenal low knee fabio vieira scored his first goal for hamburg who were playing stuttgart at home who've struggled all season to score goals has scored nine in total this season before sunday's game started stuttgart different kettle of fish obviously quite rotated after their europa league win on thursday night still one and a half foul in the first half one one um Stuttgart equalized in the second.

4:13And then 93rd minute, Stuttgart winner and a free kick right on the edge of the Hamburg box. Hamburg who've been reduced to 10 men by this point. Free kick goes very badly wrong. Big miscommunication between Angelo Stille and Dennis Undarv allows Fabio Balde to counterattack down the left. For a while, looked like he might make a bit of a mess of the square ball. Didn't in the end. Bobbled across the 18-yard box and there's Vieira to score in the 94th minute to win it for Haasvall. What do they do? Balte? Vieira!

4:50Fabio Vieira! It was a great moment for them because the last time Stuttgart were at the Volkspark was the 2023 relegation game where they came back from the first leg. Stuttgart were leading 3-0, ended up winning 6-1 to condemn them to another year in this Vierbundesliga. so an all-time happy moment really really really great moment and after the goal was scored you saw the cameras panning around and just it was those fans have been through a lot over the last decade and a lovely moment and a good moment for Vieira too Excellent and there was late drama for the other Hamburg team as we'll be hearing later on James what about you what was your moment of the week?

5:32What do you think James? Well it wasn't Sunday night's Romanapoli Correct um well jules will always take the piss out of me for saying i've got a couple so i'm gonna i am gonna just uh zoom in on one which is the end of the atlanca fiorentina game fiorentina lost again and they'd lost in midweek as well on thursday night to a.k athens which was a a really bad tempered game there was a lot of disorder in the stands of the artemio frankie the frankie's a building site at the moment and the a.k athens fans basically went and found sort of pipework masonry and stuff that they could throw at people.

6:10And Fiorentina lost that game. Edin Dzeko, who's not the captain of the team, but probably the most senior player on the team came out afterwards and basically said, look, you can say we're crap. You can say we're rubbish. You can say we don't deserve to wear the shirt and that sort of thing. But for God's sake, just please support us. We can't be whistled every time we lose the ball. Just please get behind us. And between Thursday and Sunday's game in Bergamo, the fans didn't seem to take too kindly to what Cecho said. They lose to Atalanta 2-0, so they're still winless. It's now the worst start to a season at Fiorentina in 99 years.

6:51And at the end of the game, and I should say Atalanta now coached by Raffaele Palladino, who was coach of Fiorentina last year when Fiorentina finished six. It was their best season, at least in the league, for maybe 11 years or something like that. But anyway, after the defeat, Zekka goes up to the ultras, the traveling fans this time, takes their megaphone away, which they've been using to sing songs against the team, and basically sort of reiterates this message like, come on guys, just get behind us, for God's sake. You know, teams that haven't won a game at this stage of the season in Italy, what happens to them they all go down and the idea of Fiorentina going down like they did in the early 90s is just too much to bear so it was not my positive moment of the weekend but certainly one of the most startling and astonishing moments of the weekend in Cilier.

7:42Right he may even face a ban or disciplinary action from that from the federation because it's actually illegal for players to have interaction with fans I was amazed by that nugget. Well yeah I mean you're not supposed to go over to the ultras anymore and do this kind of banho di umilità, this kind of, like, getting a big bath of humility. Eating that humble pie. Torta della umilità. Yeah, so, the Italian Football Federation, yeah, they didn't want players to put themselves in a position where they could be threatened or maybe even provoke or escalate potential sort of violence or whatever, that sort of thing.

8:22I mean, I think it would be a bit stupid to ban Dzeko because I think he... He showed great character. He was very calm in talking to the fans. His messaging was very clear. He didn't swear or anything like that. The fans seemed to basically accept what he had to say. They then started to sing for the players and for the team before leaving the stadium. So, yeah. I mean, I thought it was real leadership from Dzeko in what, yeah, the good ship Viola at the moment stricken and could be going down. I was just going to ask what the general attitude in Italy is when players do that. Because in England, obviously, any time a player does that, you tend to get hit by a chorus of, hey, look at the ticket prices we're paying.

9:03We will react how we want to your form. If players are critical of fans, does that go over well? Well, I think it's a little bit different, as I imagine it is in Germany, that Dzeko is addressing ultras rather than fans. And certainly, I don't think in England we have an ultra culture. We don't really have anything in the way of organized fans in the way that they do on the continent. On the late night shows in Italy last night, they were like, we don't like to see this on savory scenes. Or referring to him going to the club? Well, just seeing a group of players' heads bowed, sort of getting abused and insulted by a group of angry men in black shirts.

9:45That's usually what they don't like. But at the same time, I think there's something quite performative in media saying that as well. Because ultimately, they do like to talk about it. And these things do tend to go viral on social media and become a talking point, which drives debate for a week or whatever. So yeah, it's sort of condemned, but it's accepted as part of the culture. Right. Maybe Dzeko will have lit a fire under Fiorentina. Let's see. This weekend, there'll be a way to Sassuolo. Currently 19th, no wins at all. No team has ever stayed up, having failed to win any of the first 13 games.

10:24Come on, Fiorentina. Anyway, oh, Paul Ballouce joins us. Hey, Paul. Hello, how are you? Pretty good, pretty good. Where have you been? I've been in Hansi Flick's press conference because there's a massive game here in Spain tomorrow. There's Barcelona against Atletico de Madrid, and I wanted to be there in the build-up and everything. So yeah, some interesting quotes, some not great quotes in terms of how things are going at Barca. But apart from that, big game tomorrow. Yeah, absolutely. Barcelona freshly returned to the top of La Liga as of this weekend. But lots of pictures of Haunty Flick sitting marusly post-game.

11:01Give us a moment of the week, Paul. Yeah, my moment of the week, basically, I'm going to go to Girona. I'm going to go to Girona and to the game that they played against Real Madrid. Girona have struggled a lot this season. they've been guilty of not planning enough I would say like the squad and everything they started the season with an uncompleted squad but now they look like more like a team and that was reflected in a really good game that they played against Real Madrid 1-1 draw result that allowed Barcelona to be in the top of La Liga but I would highlight above anyone Adjadine Ounahi who is basically a magician for Girona he's a player above the level of a relegation battling La Liga side and he basically showed one of the best displays that Girona has seen in a while from one of their footballers and he scored a stunner of a goal against Real Madrid.

11:50Then Real Madrid managed to equalise later on but I think that a draw was in a way a fair result taking into account what Girona did especially in the first half and how disappointing Real Madrid have been looking over the past few weeks because since the Clásico, Real Madrid has only won against Olympiacos which is quite mad. And it came back from behind in that game, no? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they came back from behind. Yeah, exactly. All right, then. Who's not done a moment of the week yet? Jules. Yeah, man, he's really cute because on Sunday night, Lyon played at home against Nantes, which meant that Anthony Lopez, the former goalkeeper, was back to the city where he was born.

12:27And Lyon threw and threw after he spent more than 25 years at the club. That was the first time that he was coming back with a different shirt on. And the fans gave him an amazing reception. They cheered every save that he made, including that warm-up where, you know, those like nice shot that your goalkeeping coach is kicking at you before the game. And all of those were like celebrated by the whole stadium. So it was really beautiful. He got spanked 3-0. So I'm not sure he would remember fondly the night from the game itself, but certainly from the reception that he got from his own people. Very nice.

13:02Excellent. Well, sometimes you remember the night that you got spanked. Here we go. I love how this has become his character on the podcast. Every week there's a sexual reference from Paul Bolles. No, but every week there's an extra layer that's peeled away to where we're going to be by like March or April of next season. Yeah, just like throw it to me.

13:24Super duper. Paul, why don't you kick things off with the ladies from La Liga? This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC Podcast Network.

13:39Derecha golpea. Gol.

13:44Real Madrid empata the game. All right, as Bob was telling us, Real Madrid only drew 1-1 Sunday at Girona. That's their third straight draw in the league, with Barcelona beating Alaves 3-1. The Catalans move top by one point. Villarreal and Atletico were both victorious as well, so they're just behind Real Madrid. and the top four are separated by only three points with, as Paul was telling us, Atletico about to face Barcelona Tuesday evening. Crikey, there's two games midweek, Paul, that one, and also Real Madrid taking on Athletic Club because those are the four teams that are going to be off in Jeddah for the Super Cup in January.

14:27Yeah, they're going to play there in January and basically La Liga already set up for those games to happen on the game week that the rest of the teams are going to be playing a La Liga game, while the four teams in the Spanish Super Cup are going to be in Saudi Arabia. So basically all planned and all scheduled. But it arrives in a fitting moment because I think that we I speak about myself, I criticise the beat Atletico de Madrid at the start of the season but now they are back into the title race given the later results. They are fourth in the table but they are three points away from Barcelona which makes tomorrow's game a bit more tasty and it's quite mad the fact that the Barcelona that we saw in Stamford Bridge basically and what we've seen in the past few weeks which Flick has admitted that they are far from their best they are really far from the dominant version that they showed last season they just are top of La Liga now just out of nowhere and after ending up the classical five points away from Real Madrid so good news in a way for Barcelona although the mood here in the city I would say that the spirits are not extremely high right now.

15:29Seven straight wins for Atletico Madrid in all competitions. What's behind that return to form? I think that it's recovering a lot of players from injury. I think that the return of Alex Vaina has been key. Then in midfield, Pablo Barrios is back in his top form. Then you have Sorlo and Julien Alvarez who are as well getting their best form. And then in defence, they found a bit of the players that are doing the works for Simeone at the start of the season. Clement Lenglet had to play a lot in there. He had some few mistakes that costed a lot, but it's basically a lot of new players who they signed in Soma and were expected to be important, now are fit, now have had a decent run of games, and Atletico are starting to look a bit better than what they did at the start of the season, where I think that results were a bit unfair to them as well.

16:18They were a bit unlucky in some games. 2-1 victory over Inter in the Champions League last week. Barcelona, meanwhile, as you mentioned, were getting a right-hull humbling at Stamford Bridge. Is that the root of Hansi Flick's malaise? Sort of, sort of, yeah, yeah. I think it's the reason behind all the general mood that there's in Barcelona. By the way, Flick has sort of pointed out today in the press conference that he was sad after the Alaves game because he had just had a discussion with his assistant, Marcuse Orr, because he was sent off after Barcelona's late goal, the 3-1 against Alaves.

16:53He just kept protesting to the referees and the referees sent him off. And he just was mad at his assistant, who is his best friend and everything, and they had a heated discussion, and that was why he was sad, basically. Or at least that's what he said. He said literally, though, that he's one of the most important persons I have in here. He's part of my family, and we got a discussion, so I was a bit sad. No, you've got something in your eye, Paul. It might be a Nando's chicken wing. Yes, Nando's chicken wing. How were the post-game... I imagine that was a... If revenge is a dish, best eaten cold, etc., and so on, Nando's on the bus leaving Stamford Bridge?

17:30Probably not. No, I mean, I think that we spoke a lot about the Nando's being present in the Barcelona dressing room after the game. I asked for a reveal of the state of Nando's and the sort of sauces that were preferred in that meal. Basically, the players told me that it was all cold after the game and it didn't taste too much. Not that it was Nando's fault. It was the fault of Barcelona having to do all the media duties and everything and going late to it. Right, why didn't they just order it later on? That's a question for another day, perhaps. Yeah, exactly. Maybe that's why Hansi Flick was so upset.

18:03Maybe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe. Another good point, by the way, from Hansi Flick press conference that I think that we should mention is that he was asked about Ronald Araujo. He missed the weekend game because apparently he had a stomach virus. And basically, Flick admitted today that he's not going to be able to play for the Atletico game and it's a private issue. It's a private matter. he doesn't want to speak more about the subject there's the acknowledgement within the club that he's mentally, well, trying to deal with all the critics and everything that happened after the Chelsea game, Araujo comes a long way because in the Champions League, in the last two eliminations that Barcelona have had, he's been on the spotlight for mistakes or whatever you want to call it, against Inter Milan last season and against PSG in the previous season so he's dealing with that and yeah, I thought that I would want to mention because Flick wanted to mention it.

18:57He asked everyone to respect Araujo and the time that he needs, but that's the reason why he's not going to be able to play. Okay, Rafinha though should be part of the game after doing a full hour on the weekend against Alaves. And he looked good, Paul. He looked good, and he's expected to start tomorrow. He's expected to play full 90 minutes. He looked good. I think that the sort of intensity that he gives in the pressure, in the high pressing and everything. It's basically what Flick has complained about in the start of the season. And hopefully they believe that it's going to be what enables Barcelona to go to the next level.

19:33That's Flick's expectation, basically. He said after the last break, like, look, let me recover all the injured players, give me three, four games, and they judge us. So, Barca are in this sort of process. And after three, four games with all the players, Flick will indeed be judged because Pedri is going to come back as well in the starting 11 against elettico madrid okay some would say that the real measure of coaches how they deal with adversity rather than having all the conditions the way they'd like them but hey real madrid speaking of which real madrid now last week after our show we were hearing also the resurgence of those stories about factions splits within the real madrid dressing room and tension and question marks even around the future of xavi alonso they then got that come from behind 4-3 win against Olympiacos but back to the disappointing results this weekend in La Liga so how are things sitting at Real Madrid?

20:28Not great the tensions are still well present I think that the day we did the podcast The Athletic and Mario Cortegana reported that Vinicius had that meeting with Florentino Perez well he told Florentino that he's not really up for an extension of his contract if Xavi alone still remains in there so the tensions are well present. And I think that you could tell from the Jirana game and from all the games that Real Madrid have played in recent weeks that the players, I'm not sure if they buy on the ideas of their managers. There's a disconnection in there. There's been a debate ignited at Real Madrid in midfield because Madrid has gone from having Modric and Toni Kroos to have players in midfield who look like physically really good athletes, but they've lost a bit of football in the way, maybe.

21:12So that's a debate that has been ignited in Madrid in the lack of football that they have in the team, more like players running up and down both ends of the pitch. Yeah, less football. Players such as Fede Valverde, you can see that in Xavi Alonso's systems, he insists on playing him out wide, which tells you that he doesn't see him playing inside or like a central midfielder. So, yeah, there's a lack of connection between the manager and the players. The tensions are well present still. And I think that the coming weeks, with Madrid playing against Athletic club and the next games are going to be, they can have an impact in Man City as well.

21:49Man City as well, yeah. And in Xabi Alonso future, there's been I'm not going to say a serious report, but name dropping like in social media about Zinedine Zidane, potential comeback. I don't have any information. It's more like gossip, but I'm throwing it just like to Juliane, if you want to say something about it. I mean, he's waiting for obviously the France job that will come to him whenever France of the World Cup. So in July, I guess he can take a job until that. But I'm not sure how much sense it would make, really. Me neither. Yeah, yeah. Wow. Only one win in the last five in all competitions.

22:27Rodrigo, meanwhile, has just equaled the worst streak of consecutive matches without scoring by a forward in how long? In the 123 years of Real Madrid's history. That's pretty amazing. 30 consecutive matches without finding the net. Yeah, no, no. I mean, it tells you a lot about Rodrigo as well and how he's struggled over the past few seasons. He is a player that, like certain people at Real Madrid, they wouldn't have minded to sell, but not a real offer arrived, not that Rodrigo find a suitable proposal for that. Now his market value is just getting lower and lower. I don't think that he has a clear place to recover in there.

23:07plus apparently he's struggled as well with mental issues of the pitch and just to find the motivation just to be back in that Real Madrid squad. So a lot of things going on in there and Rodrigo being one of the players that has been more impacted by this strike of results at Madrid. Okay. Well, the weekend saw the equaliser for Real Madrid coming from Kylian Mbappe from the spot following on his four goals, all of the Real Madrid goals in that 4-3, win in the Champions League. Remarkable stuff from Kylian Mbappé. Elsewhere in La Liga poll, Villarreal. Can they sustain this form? They're winless in the Champions League, but five straight victories in La Liga.

23:46And 3-2 winners away at Real Sociedad this weekend. I think they have the squad there just to cope with it. I think they've been unlucky with the Champions League. They played against the toughest rivals in the first three games and they went to Pafos and just scrambled it, which is something that they shouldn't have done. But in La Liga, I think in La Liga, they are being everything that they are not in the Champions League, which is really clinical when they get in front of goal. And then defensive-wise, they've been quite stable under Marcelino, like all the Marcelino teams. There was a bit of luck in that game because it was a last-minute winner from Alberto Molero, beautiful player.

24:21But apart from that, let's see if they can sustain it for the long term. I think they can do it for the players they have. But yeah, actually getting knocked out of the Champions League might do them a favour in terms of like, having more bodies for La Liga and everything. Indeed. Last goal coming in the 95th minute from Alberto Molero, getting them the three points. The scoring was opened, though, by the former Leicester and Newcastle favourite Ayuso Perez. Ayuso Perez, yeah, yeah, yeah. Who was Villarreal's best player last season. He has a fair share of competitivity this season after an injury.

24:56Now he's back in the starting 11, and I don't think that he's going to be dropped in the next coming games. Excellent. Betis stayed fifth, having emerged victorious from the Seville derby, despite the fact that Anthony was suspended. Have you seen the pictures of Anthony? And like the footage and everything. So like basically, Anthony was given like a box in the stadium, like a VIP box. And he was watching the game from there at the Sevilla Stadium, right? And when Betis scored the first goal, he basically started like celebrating crazily in the press box and like just punching the walls and everything.

25:28And the Sevilla fans who were just in front of him just, looked back and threw all sorts of materials towards Anthony's box, who were just even accelerating more. Then the game was suspended in the last seven minutes because Sevilla fans started throwing stuff to the pitch as well when their striker, Isaac Romero, was sent off. The game was restarted after 15 minutes. And after the final whistle, Anthony went to the pitch with two masks, with the face of himself and Isco, who was missing the game through injury. so he basically was showcasing his face and Isco's through all the Sanchez-Pizjuana stans.

26:06I get why he would need a mask of Isco but why would he need a mask of himself? I mean, because why not? Yeah, you're absolutely right. Just like, why not? I mean, if you have just like a chance just to brag and show off, why not? Yeah. Not my style if you ask me, but yeah, I'm not going to judge him. No. That's probably enough Liga for now then, eh? Let's move on to Ligue 1, dominant league in Europe.

26:39This is the Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. The Athletic is the only place you can read articles by Daniel Taylor, Amy Lawrence, Phil Hay, James Pearce, Oli Kay and the very best football writers around. Ligue 1, everybody. Julien, franchise leading all over Europe, including in France. but the team on top of Ligue 1 is not PSG, it's Lens it's Lens after they beat Angers and PSG lost at Monaco Jules Yeah, it was pretty an amazing weekend really because Marseille on Saturday night could have gone top as well had they beaten Toulouse at the Stade Vélodrome and they didn't but before that you're right PSG lost and then on Sunday Lens won Deggen away at Angers to become the Ligue 1 leaders for the first time since 2005 and four, which was much earlier in the season.

27:30I think it was early September, if I remember well. They only stayed on top for one week, which, as Paul would say, is a long time to be on top. But maybe this time will last a bit longer because they're good to start with and also because they don't play in Europe, unlike PSG, Marseille, Lille, Monaco. And they only have one game to prepare for every week. Right. For Pierre Sage to prepare for every week. And Florian Tourvin with a brace, both goals for Lens in this 2-1 victory. Magnificent stuff. Paris Saint-Germain, though, against a Monaco side that had been struggling under Pocagnoli, that only managed a 2-2 draw against the waterpark-adjacent Cypriot side Paphos in the Champions League.

28:12What happened there? Monaco were great. They were really good, I thought. They were very aggressive. They pressed well, like Pocagnoli likes it. responded really well to the fact that PSG were below par massively. Luis Enrique said after the game, this was their worst performance of the season, I think by a mile as well. Just nothing really worked. The front three didn't work. The midfield three didn't work, apart from Vitinha maybe. But Juan Eves and Fabian were just not in the game at all. Defensively, there was a few mistakes made by William Pacho, which is quite unusual to be mentioned. Zaire Emre, a right back, struggled a bit.

28:50the goal came from his side it was a nicely taken goal by Minamino

29:03but the big talking point really was that Monaco should have had a red card after 15 minutes that might have changed the whole game because Lamine Camara made a really bad tackle on Lucas Chevalier could have hurt him quite badly I think and the referee only gave a yellow VAR didn't intervene which was a big mistake now everybody I think is in agreement with that apart from the Monaco sporting director Thiago Scuro who said that it was just a yellow and not a red but obviously it's a similar one to the Caicedo one in the Chelsea Arsenal game if you haven't seen the Monaco PSG game so that should have been a red and maybe when you play with 10 men against 11 PSG players for 75 minutes the outcome of the game might have been very different but certainly over the 19 minutes there there was just one team on the pitch It's really the end of Monaco.

29:50Okay. Things didn't go PSG's way in this game. Broadly speaking, though, I see that this is the third time in the last decade that they haven't been on top of the table at the end of 14 rounds of play. And in both of the other occasions, they didn't go on to win the title. Are you still regarding this as a bit of a wobble that will sort itself out and PSG will pick up their usual championship? Yeah, I mean, it's obviously impossible to tell. I think PSG would be better once everybody comes back from injury, Hakimi, Dembele, Edouard, etc. And when they finally can field their strongest team, which they haven't been able to at all this season yet.

30:26And certainly to be second with just a point behind the leaders, they've got 30 points. At this stage last year, they had 34 points and it was a much better start of the league season than it is this year. On the other hand, they started poorly last season in the Champions League and they've done much better this year in the Champions League. So it's the opposite to what we saw at this stage last season. maybe last we keep this form which has been pretty incredible Thauvin you mentioned at 32 being a proper leader Pierre Sage or Stonewise as we like to call him on the show doing a really good job in terms of the pressing and the intensity that his team puts in they've got really good young players Beidou is very good Sangari in midfield that they went to get in Australia is very good as well so they've been outstanding they've won 10 of their 14 league games so far this season and really even the game that they lost they were not probably worthy of losing them.

31:15So it's been great from a loss point of view. Marseille will be very strong. Monaco will come back better. So it should be a very exciting second half of the season. I don't know if PSG will win it, but even now they are seen as the favourite anyway. Okay. PSG possibly still paying the price for their hijinks gallivanting around America in the heat of summer at the Club World Cup. Oh, by the way, Monaco did it feature a cameo from Paul Pogba yes it did again yeah another four minutes worth for him so he's building his way up to maybe doing five minutes ten yeah but it was his first home game obviously for Monaco he got like a rock star ovation from when he came on the pitch and then after the game he went to see the fans yes there were there were Monaco fans in the stadium to tell them to to encourage the team to be behind the team to support, which is weird because they've just beaten the European champions and the French champions in a game where they played really well, where the whole stadium really was behind the team and supported them.

32:19So it felt a little bit, why are you going to tell them that? It's not like they've been booing you for the whole game to go back to the Dzeko conversation that we just had. So it was a bit strange, but still, you can't do anything wrong right now, Paul. So everybody was very happy for his home debut. Is that a national enthusiasm as well, Jules? Is that a lot of enthusiasm to see him play again? Yeah, the PSG fans cheered him massively when he came on. We saw that again when he made his debut against Rennes the week before where I think a lot of the people in the stadium also came for him and he had a standing ovation even from the Rennes fans in this game.

32:55So yeah, I think there's a lot of happiness to see him back on the pitch. Oh, bless. Bless, because he'd never played in Ligue 1. No, exactly. He left at 16 from Le Havre to Manchester United so we actually had never seen him play. Voilà Okay Marseille unable To take the top of the table Because of the 92nd minute goal That they conceded At home to Toulouse Born of an absolutely Phenomenal throw From American defender Mark McKenzie of Toulouse Which was put away by Santiago Hidalgo I felt for Mark McKenzie Who was there ready to receive After Hidalgo scores He kind of runs towards him And you feel And Mackenzie's thinking Yeah You're going to celebrate The amazing throw that I just pulled off.

33:38Not a bit of it. No, no. He walked, I mean, he ran straight past him, really. It's not the first time that Marseille dropped two points like that really late at the Velo Drome. They did it against Angers too. It should not happen. Dezebbi was very frustrated after the game. Credit to Toulouse because they kept believing in it. But Marseille made mistakes that led to the throw-in in the first place. They made mistakes on that throw. Rulli was all over the place. Really quite hard to understand what he was trying to do. Kondogbia, who is massive, lost the jewel against Hidalgo, who is tiny. It was really hard to understand how they could concede at that time in the game, where again, like I said earlier, they would have gone top of the table had they won that and had they got two more points right now.

34:19So there's a few things. I still think that the Zerbi changes too many things at kickoff, during games, to keep maybe more stability for his own team. So for me, it's a bit on him that disappointing result again, because they should be to lose every single day at home, even on a Champions League week. okay they dropped to third in the table and next week they'll be playing Lille who are only three points behind them so the big games keep on coming anything else from Ligue 1 Jules no just very briefly on Lille Morsinho and Strasbourg they lost again and he did something that he rarely does if you're a Fulham fan you might remember Martial Godot one of your really bright young players who signed for Strasbourg in the summer brought him on in the 54th minute took him off in the 85th I think because he was really unhappy by his performance overall.

35:06And Rosinia, I think, has gone much, much tougher on his young team and young players lately because they've lost, I think, every league game in November. It's much harder to win in Ligue 1 than to win against an English club in Europe, obviously, because they beat Crystal Palace on Thursday night. And I think he feels that because they make a lot of mistakes, he has to be tougher on them. And that was one of the things that he did for that. OK. A lot of excitement in English media and the Athletic, indeed, about Strasbourg's keeper and his Manuel Neuer hold my beer antics. Mike Penders, yeah, on loan from Chelsea, obviously.

35:39And Ismail Assar really should have scored that. I think any of us would have scored that goal. Very good. All right, loads more league to come next week. Next up, though, we're off to Italy.

35:55This is the Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. James, Cedia, and actually before we start, it just dawned on me, way back at the start of this show, when I asked you for your moment of the week and you said, what do you think my moment of the week was? I think I know now what you meant. Was it on Friday? At the Athletics Christmas do, we went to a bowling alley. We bowled, ladies and gentlemen. And when I say we bowled, James Horncastle bowled. he laid down some sweet sweet ball action on those lanes my word you got a turkey didn't you uh is that is that what you're about to explain uh which is what three strikes in a row yeah a turkey for christmas yeah it was magnificent magnificent james was kind enough to explain to some of the less gifted bolise how to do it and i uh i benefited hugely from your coaching he's got so many hidden talents doesn't he yeah yeah producer lucy also had a turkey well she had a different approach i'm gonna say a different approach but it's when you it's like when you're watching the ashes and you see someone who has a very different bowling action and it makes their over appointment viewing that was it it was unorthodox but it got the same result.

37:17Strikes. Yes. That's what it was all about. Now let's hear about some strikers in Serie A. And if you like your leagues tight, by the way, Serie A's the place to be. Napoli's 1-0 win at Roma on Sunday night. Milan's defeat of Lazio by the same scoreline earlier in the weekend left the top four in Italy separated by just one point. Milan are top. Napoli level with them on points but just behind by one goal of goal difference. Inter and Roma are a point behind those two. Bologna could join this party on Monday night if they beat Cremonese and give you five teams with only one point between them.

37:55But anyway, first of all, Napoli, 1-0 winners Sunday night at Roma. And since Conte went away for his period of calm reflection, it seems like that team has turned the corner. Yeah, I mean, he was talking about this on Sunday night after the game. He said, look, I used to do this when I was at Spurs as well. I didn't used to have to ask permission. I just basically say, yeah, going away for a week. You guys, my assistants, take care of training. Really trust my assistants. And I think I got a breather. The players got a breather from me and we're all better for it. But I do think he's gone back to basics.

38:34They lost to Bologna before the last international break. And I think people took for granted how good Bologna are because if you said they beat Cremonese by the time you've listened to this listener, Bologna will be a point off the top as well. But certainly the team has kind of galvanized after he said, this team isn't a team, I can't do open heart surgery. And so they pulled together and he's gone back to basics by basically saying, look, I evolved last year in sort of playing 4-3-3 or 4-1-4-1 because I had Cavarackelia, then I lost Cavarackelia. but it still persisted on that. We signed De Bruyne.

39:14Still wanted to play kind of that way and become a ball-dominant team. And, you know, we've seen in these big games that they've won back-to-back against Dattelantham, against Roma. They've gone back to playing Conte ball, 3-4-2-1. Really good on the transition. Got lots of pace up front with Rasmus Hoyland, David Neres and Noah Lang. And ultimately the only girl of the game came from that.

39:41If it's a goal, it's a goal. It's a goal. It's a goal. It's a goal. It's a goal. It's a goal. It's a goal. It's a goal. Goal!

39:52A really good counter-attack, even though Roma were sort of thinking they should have had a foul, called against Rachmani for a challenge on Manukone before Hoyland set off. But equally, Napoli had the best defense in the league last year, and Roma couldn't really lay a glove on them. They really defended well as a team. Excellent. Roma do have a real habit of losing 1-0 to their rival title contenders. This game finished with that scoreline. A couple of weeks back, they lost to Milan 1-0. They previously lost to Inter 1-0, which I guess is not that surprising because they've got a very good defence themselves, but almost no one who can score goals.

40:29So Ferguson back up front in this one. I think they finished off the game with four players up front, only managed two shots. Gazzetta gave Ferguson 4.5 out of 10, which is about as low as they go, and called him un disastro. Do we need to translate that? Possibly not. Anyway, yeah, Roma's problems with scoring goals are by now well noted. Let's talk about Milan then, who defeated Lazio. They've got quite the opposite record because they beat all their rivals by 1-0. Lazio this time, Inter and Roma in the past. In fact, in all their games against the top sides, they've only conceded one goal. That was against Napoli.

41:05They don't have Europe to worry about and there they sit on top of the pile. yeah i mean they've got the coppa italia on thursday where they play lazio again i don't know why cedilla does this it's like whenever there's like a league game between two teams there's an invariably a kind of coppa italia draw which pits the same teams against each other the same week it's just i don't really want to see milan lazio again after after four days um but That's by the by. Look, I mean, if we look at the current top four, pending Bologna's result, the two teams at the top, Milan and Napoli, are very good in the big games.

41:44In fact, Napoli have only lost a big game to Milan, which, given the way the title race is going, could prove decisive, given the tiebreaker is head-to-head. So those two teams are very good in the big games, but not so good in the games against teams you'd expect them to beat. it's the opposite with the two teams that are point behind them Roma and Inter Roma and Inter very good against the team should expect them to beat and have kind of come up short for different reasons in the big games now Milan to give you an overview have a very simple formula it is Mike Mignon makes improbable saves keeps clean sheets the team defends well as a whole Luka Modric helps with that because he basically can keep the ball and get out of trouble.

42:32And then one of their attacking players scores one goal. And at the moment, it's Rafa Leal because Christian Pulisic was out injured. Milan have tended in those big games, let's not forget to have penalties awarded against them. So, you know, in the Debi Dalle Madonina, that was Chalinolu, Mignon saves it. Against Roma, it was Paolo Dybala, Mignon saves it. And in this game against Lazio, It looked like they were going to give away another penalty. Strahinia Pavlovich had judged to have handled the ball in his own penalty area on the pitch. And then the VAR says, no, you might want to come and have a look at this.

43:09And this was absolute cinema. Seven-minute wait for the VAR basically to find the image that Giuseppe Colu, the referee, was looking at. Before Colu basically gets to the screen, he gets in this kind of pitched battle with Max Allegri, the Milan coach. who's shouting at him, you know, whenever you come to San Siro, it's always a bloody palaver, you know, because Colu was in charge when Milan lost their one and only game this season on the opening day to Cremonese. And in Serie A, and I haven't seen this in any other league, maybe it's the case in the Bundesliga or La Liga, but Serie A, they love the ref cam.

43:50Yeah, same for us as well. Yeah, same in the Bundesliga. We're going to have it. The director goes to the ref cam all the time. and the timing for the ref cam for him to, for the match director to go to it, just as Colu was extracting the red card. And then you just see Allegri's face. There's two or three seconds where Allegri just giving the referee this death stare. It's absolutely fantastic. That was going to be my other moment of the week. And then Colu plays another blinder. I mean, this guy is fantastic. In fact, I would be giving him an award for what he did in this game, even though people are saying he should never referee a game again.

44:33Because he then turns on the mic. His mic is live, so he wants to communicate the VAR decision or on-field review decision to the crowd. And he says, the first thing he says is, Strahinia Pavlic did handle the ball. So all the Lazio travelling support roar. They're like, yes, we've got a penalty. and then Kalou goes but there was a foul in the build-up no penalty free kick KC Milan and the rest of San Siro just erupts because they can see that they're going to win that's flair surely like refereeing wise that's got to be considered flair yeah it was it was magnificent so Milan keep on keeping on they do have a cup commitment this week James because as much as people say they're not in the cups so we'll have to see how they perform in that and then they've got a game they should win at the weekend.

45:23But as I said, it's the games that they should win that they've dropped points in. That's a twist, isn't it? Inter are going to be playing Como next week. Como, who are not far off joining that merry throng at the top of the table. They're level at the moment with Bologna, but don't have the game in hand. They beat Sassuolo 2-0 this weekend. Napoli next weekend hosting Juventus, who are maybe beginning to find their feet now under Spalletti. They've had two straight victories. they did lose Vlajevic to what looks like a quite serious muscle injury late on in their victory this weekend against Caleri but I guess the most important thing seems to be the fact that Spalletti's really unleashed once again the full power of Yildiz yeah Spalletti talking about him he said he's like a gunshot in the night wakes everybody up you know where your partner like what the hell's that it was a gunshot honest but I think that was one of the great things about this weekend and this season is that I mean even before Spalletti arrived Yildiz was doing great things remember the 4-4 against Borussia Dortmund the 4-3 against Inter in the Derby d 'Italia I mean he's such a electric talent came off the bench in Bodo and completely turned the game around the events were 1-0 down in the Arctic Circle I mean he set up a couple of goals had another goal he set up disallowed and then in this game against Caleri again Juventus go behind but don't worry Yieldis has got this scores a couple of goals before half time and it was the anniversary of Juventus winning the what would be the old club world cup 40 years ago and so that team with Michel Platini basically showed up at the training ground on I think Thursday.

47:11There's a very nice photo of Kenan Yildiz kind of shaking hands with a guy he clearly doesn't know. And he's like, who is this guy? And it's Michel Platini. But whether he gets to that level or not, I mean, let's not forget Leroy. He won three Ballon d 'Or. But Yildiz is a very special talent. I think that was one of the, as much as the big games in this weekend in City, I kind of disappointed Milan Lazio and and Roman Napoli. Nico Paz for Como. Como have only lost once all season. And Kinnan Yildiz for Juventus. I mean, the league has two of the most exciting young creators in world football at the moment.

47:54I think they should just be sort of enjoyed, savoured at the moment because both of them are fantastic to watch. Excellent. Down the bottom end of the table, just to mention, you touched on Atalanta's victory over Fiorentina early on which left Fiorentina level with Verona in the bottom two already the pair of them are five points from safety Genoa meanwhile getting their first victory under Daniele di Rossi they're now a point clear of the bottom three so beginning to ease up a little bit of that pressure but Fiorentina they surely don't belong down there what is the reason that they have underperformed so badly since the departure of Palladino it's odd because I mean they spent 90 million in the summer and in some respects they they needed to spend that money because the the midfield that they had last year it was kind of all players who were there on loan and when paladino left basically all of those players went back to their parent clubs and the midfield i think you know is clearly one of the most important parts of the team particularly when it comes to protecting your defense or helping Moyes-Ken, the runner-up in the goal-scoring charts last year with, what, 27 goals in all competitions.

49:07So that's an issue. You've then got, I mean, the owner, for example, Rocco Comiso, has had back surgery in the US. He hasn't been able to travel. His old right-hand man who was always on the ground, Joe Barone, sadly passed away a year ago and the fans could not stand the general manager daniele prade who resigned what three weeks ago you know after yeah the fans in the final game of last year calling him to go seeing him as a kind of limit on the the club's ambition even though he said look guys i've spent 90 million what more do you want but it's one of those things that's kind of inexplicable really because they've almost got too many good players.

49:52Like, I mean, up front, Moïse Ken and Edin Dzeko. Now, I know Edin Dzeko is closer to 40 than he is to 20, but Dzeko is still talented enough to get you 10 or 12 goals a season, if not more. They've got some of the best young Italian players as well. So I think it's a very exacting environment in Florence. it's a one team town as you know well james it's a town that that has a very very high opinion of itself in terms of what the football the team should be playing is like you know if you're surrounded by all the renaissance beauty and art that there is in florence you know all of these guys are art critics essentially as much as football fans there have been protests even when the team has been doing well uh and so for them to kind of continue and intensify when things are going bad it makes it harder for the players to perform and final thing i think the team feels dislocated and the fans feel dislocated quite literally because the artemio franke is undergoing a lot of work at the moment it looks like a building site the ultras have had to move from one end of the ground to the other and there's just a feeling of discontent and um yeah they've been unlucky in some games but you can see when all of those games that they should have got something out of and they don't and then you find yourself a long long way from your last win it starts to spiral and wow is it spiraling it's acquiring its own momentum indeed all right well we'll see if things turn around after ed and djeko's loud hailer intervention this weekend in next round's clash with Sassuola.

51:40But for now, let's leave City out there because our final stop on our European roundup awaits and it is the Bundesliga.

51:52You're listening to the Totally Football Show with James Richardson. Now we do four times a week. Keep up to date with us on Insta and enjoy us in glorious Technicolor on YouTube at the Totally Show. All right, Sif, Stefan Bloor. As it stands, How many points are Bayern clear? Eight points clear, Jimbo. Eight points clear. Eight points clear. So not so tight in Germany. Bayern beating St. Pauli 3-1, although late, late drama in that game. Leipzig, their closest rival, in a goalless draw with the resurgent Mönchengladbach, which leaves RB Leipzig now just a point ahead of Dortmund. Leverkusen, who had that massive win last week, and Hoffenheim, a further two points behind.

52:35Where do you want to start here, Seb? Let's just mention St. Pauli quickly, because they lost eight games in a row in the Bundesliga, heading to Allianz Arena, which is a pretty uncomfortable position to be in. They played ever so well. Clearly, Bayern's trip to London in midweek and their loss to Arsenal came at a cost. They looked pretty fatigued, pretty heavy-legged. No Alise, no Gnabry in the starting lineup. St. Pauli played deep football, compact football, committed football, which given that Blessing has been under a little bit of pressure, head coach Alexander Blessing, it's kind of a good indication.

53:08And it was 1-1 until the 92nd minute. Sampali took the lead, equalized from Rafa Aguero just before halftime, held on all the way through the second half, got a bit fortunate, but defended pretty well and were worth their point. And it felt like this is going to be the moment when their season changes because they're in Cologne this weekend, but then they're going to play Heidenheim in Mainz who are right down the foot of the table so really big games before the winter pausa and then there's luis diaz 92nd minute and then to run up the score nicholas jackson on 94 minutes played very well and uh yeah it was so it was encouraging it's unusual to see a team that's that tactically coherent given how long this run has been going on and given how dispiriting it's been and you know this was a good performance but in amongst that run there's been a four nil loss at home to brinchenland and gladback which is i mean And then now it looks a little bit better.

53:59The time, Gladbach, were really suffering. So it's been debilitating. But yeah, I spoke to a member of the first team over the weekend and he was like, it's going to turn. It's going to turn. So there's some optimism there. And let's see what they do in Cologne at the weekend. Okay. They're currently in penultimate spot in the Bundesliga. One point off a playoff or playout. Two points from safety. So yeah, long way to go. of course you mentioned what happened with the other Hamburg team 94th minute winner for Fabio Vieira in their clash with Stuttgart the other games with the the big sides at the top of the table goalless between Gladbach and Leipzig and Gladbach are lucky not to have actually made it a fourth win in a row very tight off cycle in that one but it did finish nil nil what about Dortmund's 2-1 win at Bayer Leverkusen Leverkusen who of course beat Man City midweek yeah much like Bayern Leverkusen came back from that game and rotated so Charles Kwanzaa was left out and Edmund Tapsoeba was brought in for Drell Belosian on the other side so they rotated their defense and Leverkusen very very flat not a spectacle of a game Aaron El Salmino the Chelsea loanee he started at the back for Dortmund got the first goal of the game nice header from a free kick loads of neck on it to get it in at the far post and then a bit of a controversy actually so So just before Dortmund's second goal, Sarri Gerasi comes off and had a little bit of sulk about it.

55:27Wasn't too happy with the decision. Nico Kovac went for the handshake, Grassi having none of it. But then Fabio Silva, who's been in the news actually because he's complained a little bit about his playing time or someone close to him has complained on his behalf because there have been stories in the German media about it. Silva comes on, almost immediately creates the second goal for Adeyemi with a brilliant, brilliant cross from the kind of the shallow right position. Adiemi with a thumping header at the near post as well gave Mark Flecken no chance and then it looked pretty comfortable but then Christian Kofana gets a goal back and Dortmund's problem this season as James will remember from that Juventus game and the Champions League earlier in the season is holding leads they lost the lead in Turin but in the Bundesliga they gave up a lead in Hamburg a few weeks ago lost a very late lead against Stuttgart to draw 3-3 last week and so it became very very nervous but they held on held on to one and this felt like a really big moment for Kovac because anytime the team doesn't play well anytime they don't get the result they need the conversation about his style comes back about how his style fits with what Dortmund perceived their house style to be and you start to get complaints about well you know how long can this go on for because you know there's an ideological mismatch here and so you know just results and you know pragmatic football can't really compensate for that but then into third place one point behind Leipzig in the second.

56:49It's looking pretty healthy. And the Gerasi issue has been resolved. Kovac said afterwards, yeah, he came to me, he said, look, he knew he'd made a mistake, shouldn't behave like that. So that seems to have patched itself up. And yeah, Dortmund looking in pretty good shape ahead of the winter break. And they've also, you know, James mentioned this and I agree with him. So we've got Pockel action this midweek, which makes it an English wokker in Germany. And Dortmund are playing Leverkusen again, but at the Westfalenstadion rather than in Leverkusen. So we've got, yeah, we've got Dortmund, Leverkusen, Union Berlin are playing Bayern Munich.

57:21St. Pauli have got Gladbach again, Haasvall against Horschenkeel. So it's a nice fun week. Excellent. Excellent. Anything else from the Bundesliga itself, Seb, or the world of German football in general? Yeah, so while we've been recording, Sandra Wagner has lost his job at Augsburg. Not such a surprise. And we've mentioned Wagner a few times. those who don't know him will recognize him from uh from germany's bench during euro 2024 with the impressive mustache and there's been too much noise there's been too much noise he's been a little bit too demonstrative a bit too bullish about his coaching abilities and acumen and the results just haven't been there and ultimately they got beaten 3-0 at hoffenheim over the weekend and hoffenheim our resurgent side they've been really impressively rebuilt by christine isa they've become physically monstrous incredibly difficult to play against ultimately what that exposed in augsburg is just how flimsy all their systems are and they conceded of the three goals they conceded two of them were as soft as you'll see all weekend and it had become untenable the criticism that got too much a couple of weeks ago after another defeat wagner was live on sky deutschland and was kind of asked about some of the the protest balance from his own fans around on the stadium.

58:32It was absolutely excruciating. See, he played the kind of, well, I didn't see it. I was focusing on the game. And this guy, I'm watching Rater said, well, I'll read them to you now. Yeah, it was like the first season of The Office when you didn't really know what it was. You just wanted to cringe out your spleen. It was awful. But he's gone. And I think necessarily sad, sad, because there is a coaching career there and there is a sharp coaching mind. not sure whether his bullishness versus Augsburg's natural position in the German football food chain really was a match as much as they talked that up at the beginning of the season and a change now before it gets too late I think ultimately mine's been very bad this season Heineim who hey by the way found two goals in stoppage time to win in Union Berlin winning Copenic over the weekend very very impressive first away win of the season I think Augsburg will be saved by the lack of quality beneath them but very hard to keep arguing in Wagner's favour okay Wagner's cycle is over yeah so there you go uh very good well I think that wraps it up then for this week with the totally football shows European edition listener I hope you enjoy all the treats in store with the various cup competitions we'll have updates on everything in next Tuesday's show but now many Many thanks to Paul, to Seb, James, Jules and producer Lucy, a new listener.

59:54Have a great week and we'll catch up with you soon.

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