PSG prepare for Mbappe’s Real + should Sarina shake up England?

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1:23The Athletic FC Podcast Network.

1:57Totally Football Show. Stand by for Duncan against producer Charlie. It's the Totally Football Show.

2:06Tuesday 8th of July. Listen, I'm not going to lie, that's what day it is. Got Daniel's story for you today. Hi, Daniel. Good morning, James. Well, lovely to see you. Also here in the studio, Adrian Clarke and Tim Spears. All right. Hello, everyone. All right, Tim. Hello. Nice to see you. Did you have a nice weekend? It was very pleasant. What did I do? Oh, I went to Finsbury Park for a gig, a concert. Oh, yeah? Fontaines DC. Oh, yeah, nice. And Kneecap. Really? Band of the moment. It was a nice little, just a quiet afternoon in the park. Oh. Adrian, what you got? No gigs. Although I did go. Did you?

2:46I made a guest appearance. I basically helped a mate out. Yes. Who had four tickets for Linkin Park. Really? And said, look, I need to fill the spot. Will you take it? and I thought, yeah, I'll experience it. I only knew two songs. What songs were they? Numb and In The End. But I did enjoy the show. It was good noise. Sometimes it's better to go and see a band that you don't have experience of and that way you can't compare the supremely produced excellence of the vinyl output. Vinyl for you old timeies. Wise words. Good noise is a good little strap for the posters, you know. Come and see Linkin Park.

3:22Good noise. There you go. Daniel, gigs? No gigs, I went to Nottingham Racing on Saturday afternoon to get a slightly different lower key sporting fix but other than that, just watching football Excellent, and there has been football at the Women's Euros reigning Euro champions England lost 2-1 to France now they must not lose against Netherlands if they are to stay in the competition Netherlands are fresh from beating Wales 3-0 Meanwhile, Norway and the reigning world champion Spain are already through to the knockouts. Spain after beating Belgium 6-2 on Monday. That's now 11 goals they've scored in two matches.

4:03Meanwhile, at the Club World Cup, their semi-finals on Tuesday and Wednesday evening. Chelsea, who beat Palmeiras, will face Fluminense on Tuesday. On Wednesday, it's Paris Saint-Germain against Real Madrid. This after the Parisians beat Bayern 2-0 on Saturday and Real put out Dortmund in perhaps the least 3-2, 3-2, that we've ever seen. Sunday night in Houston, Mexico beat USA in the Gold Cup final. The Mexicans coming from 1-0 down with goals from Raul Jimenez and West Ham's Edson Alvarez. Wow, crikey. A lot for us to be discussing, plus the quiz later on too. We're going to begin with Tuesday's semi-final.

4:44This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC Podcast Network.

4:52Lovely take. Opens up for Palmer. That is Cole Palmer. All over. Wonderful finish. That was Cole Palmer getting Chelsea underway in their quarterfinal against Palmeiras. A singular match, as Colin Miller pointed out last week. It featured new signings for Chelsea on both sides and also players from both sides scoring for Chelsea because their winning goal was actually a colossal OG from the Palmeiras keeper. If anyone saw this, how convinced were you by Chelsea's passage to the semi-finals? I mean, they seem to be doing what I think Premier League teams should do at this tournament, which is just enough.

5:34The timing of the tournament suggests that going full pelt rather than playing with control, particularly given the heat, is probably a fool's errand. They are tired players and they're due back for pre-season in about two weeks. and Chelsea, through the nature of their draw in the competition, are probably, I think, going to be able to do that until the final, which if they then lose a final to PSG slash Real Madrid, I think everyone would think, well, that's a pretty good effort. Good job done. So, yeah, they haven't really impressed me at all. They've been a moments team. There was a kind of the Palmer goal in this game.

6:06There was the Liam De Lapp goal in the group stage where it felt like it was hard work until it wasn't. But that's kind of tournament football end cliche. I mentioned new signings for both sides Jean-Pedro getting on the field later on in this game but what about the equaliser from Palmeiras and well from the soon to be Chelsea Esteval how electric was he? Yeah he looks really really good in a way that makes you slightly wince as a non-Chelsea fan if you're going to actually see that much of him next season he's not slated to be loaned this season the fee suggests that he will be a now Chelsea player rather than a for the future Chelsea player And he looks like he's kind of one of those Brazilian footballers who needs to be on the pitch, needs to be on the ball, needs to be doing things.

6:51It's kind of fascinating to see how that fits with Chelsea, because that's pretty much Cole Palmer's role. It certainly was in the first half of last season when he dominated possession and delighted in doing so. So I guess there's a kind of degree of refinement with players like that, of kind of teaching them to be those moments players rather than needing the ball all the time. What I've noticed about Chelsea in this tournament Is how experimental Maresca has been Now Maresca is criticised Week in, week out by Chelsea fans For not trying things For playing in the same way And he's used this summer To actually show that I can And I will try different players in different positions 27 players have got minutes for Chelsea In this tournament Which I think is pretty impressive nine different goal scorers as well.

7:39And what I also find really interesting is that they've looked great on the counter. Five of their 12 goals have come on the break. And I've always felt that Chelsea have got a team that would be good on the break, which kind of makes it odd that Mareska's so hell-bent on playing slow, pass, sideway, sideway, sideway, possession football. So maybe on the back of this tournament, he will have a little rethink in terms of what he does in the Premier League. Five goals in the Club World Cup from fast breaks, seven in the entirety of last season. So, yeah, this might be the start of a new Chelsea.

8:20Who knows? Tuesday night could mark the end of their Club World Cup participation, though, as they take on the Fluminense side who beat the team, who beat Man City. Yeah, I do think this will be Chelsea's toughest test by distance, mostly in terms of the way that Fluminense sort of pressed to really good effect certainly for the second goal in Stalhal and Chelsea have been sort of quite safe so far really. They barely had a shot in the second half the other night. I don't know if they actually registered one. Obviously the goal was an own goal. So they're going to have to raise the tempo a bit.

8:52They're without quite a few players as well. I don't think it's a given at all that Chelsea get through this one. Thiago Silva leading from the back for Fluminense. Of course he was playing for Chelsea. when they won the Club World Cup in 2021. His two boys are in the academy as well, aren't they? And yeah, Chelsea. They still live here in London. So yeah, it's a genuine Thiago Silva derby, this one, which is great. I wonder if Chelsea were knocked out, I'm not saying they will be, if they were knocked out and Thiago Silva was kind of still doing his greatest hits at the age of 58 or whatever.

9:28I wonder if they might consider bringing in an experienced defender just as an option, not necessarily as a start of the next season, but just as an option. I think last week on the show we were saying that Tosin was their oldest player last season, who's 26. And I don't see how they mount a title challenge without experience in the defence. As I say, not necessarily to play every week, but just to kind of sit there and lead the others around him. It's asking a lot of Levi Colwell, for example, to be that leader at 21-22. So, yeah, it'll be really interesting. I love Thiago Silva. So, yeah, all power to him.

10:02Well, and so do his teammates. I mean, they speak in, like, beyond glowing terms. It's not like, oh, yeah, he's a good teammate. It's like, he's a wonderful person. We think he's incredible. And, yeah, it's a great story and just shows his sort of, his desire to keep playing. I mean, obviously he doesn't need the money. The guy's 40. And obviously him and Fabio in goal, I mean, it's a great story. Combined age of 84. But then, you know, they're not just sort of making up the numbers. Fabio made an incredible save the other night against, Was it Koulibaly from the head? By the time his kids are old enough to play first-team football, I wonder if it will be the Chelsea gaffer.

10:38Well, that's an interesting question, isn't it, Adrian? It's a great story. Thiago Silva, Fluminense, a great story as well. Jack was saying when he was telling us about the Brazilian side, they're pretty much just happy to be there. And though they were South American champions, what, two years ago, they've not been doing too well or late. Only finished four points above the relegation zone last year in Brazil's Serie A. anyway. That game's coming up on Tuesday night on Wednesday and they represent the last hope of a non-European side making the final so lots of interest in that It's a good job they're there isn't it because if this was Inter Milan who it could have been then it's just an extension of the Champions League isn't it so it's pretty important for the whole tournament that they are there Yeah.

11:20How upset would FIFA be staging their own Champions League final? I'm not so sure. I'm not so sure but anyway they've got an absolute humdinger of a second semi-final on Wednesday as well, with Paris Saint-Germain taking on Real Madrid, which will be Kylian Mbappé's first game against the club he left a year ago and is still currently suing for about€55 million of unpaid wages. That, of course, is if he plays, because presumably he's got to knock the incredible Gonzalo Garcia out of the line-up to get a start. Yeah, this kind of weird throwback to 90s tournaments where a player you hadn't really heard of starred in a tournament and you were like this is the new kid is it this is the new guy which yeah it's not quite Stefan Guivar or Karol Paborski but yeah I knew very little about Gonzalo Garcia before this tournament so it is kind of nice and he's got his chance because of Mbappe's stomach issues during the tournament we are told that Mbappe is basically fully fit now I think because it's the semi-final and because it's PSG Mbappe probably gets straight back into the team there is a yeah there's a huge hashtag narrative to to him playing in this game I'd have made PSG comfortable favourites were it not for the suspensions that they got at the end of the the buying game with with Pacho and Hernandez both being sent off I think that does kind of even it up a little bit I know Hoyssen is is also suspended for rail but he's a kind of new boy anyway so yeah it's going to be really interesting to watch this game and see if it has the intensity of a Champions League semi-final because FIFA's big aim for this was kind of bring everybody else into the tournament make it feel global in until the latter stages and as you say James basically try and host a Champions League semi-final and final over a few days in the US the Real Madrid Dortmund game in flashes had Champions League energy it really did particularly the kind of chaos at the end so yeah it'll be interesting if that continues.

13:15That was mad that 8am period Real were two goals up Of course, it was Gonzalo Garcia who opened the scoring with a lovely kind of side-footed volley finish. The assist there from Adeguilé, and he's been a player that most people know about, but he's been the big beneficiary, I think, so far beyond Garcia from the arrival of Xavi Alonso. He's been one of the mainstays of the team, contributed two assists against Dortmund. They were 2-0 up going into the 91st minute. Dortmund somehow got one back, but the game was so over that they didn't even bother to collect the ball and take him out to the centre circle.

13:49It was wild, wasn't it? It was wild. Yeah. And Bappi then scored a lovely kind of, what, sort of flying? Yeah, flying sort of, yeah, side volley, wasn't it? Yeah, it wasn't quite a scissor kick. But yeah, it was nice. It's good for the tournament. He sort of arrived, I guess. What I find interesting with Alonso's Real Madrid is that he's been really consistent with the team that he's picked. Unlike Maresca, who's just gone and given everyone minutes, Nine players have started all of the games, of which Hoyssen is one. It's like he made his mind up on the team already. I guess you'll just slot Mbappe in for Garcia, wouldn't you?

14:28That's the obvious one, the obvious change. The rest, I would imagine, will stay the same. It's kind of like, was it a 4-4-2 diamond, I would say, with Bellingham just behind that front two. Rodrigo ostracised, opening the door maybe to a move away. So, yeah, it looks like he's made his mind up pretty early doors, Alonso. This is my team and I'm going to work with it. And Arda Goulet is in it and he's delivered. You know, some real creativity. And I guess the other change is just younger. It just has that more youthful feel. They look like they've got a bit more energy than they did have. Marvellous.

15:03Real Madrid, cup competition, always dangerous. Paris Saint-Germain, though. This Paris Saint-Germain, what can stop them? The game against Bayern on Saturday, well, UK time, tea time, was interesting because on one hand they won it 2-0, getting the second goal when they'd gone down to nine men, which was a bit bonkers, which means that they've now faced in the last four or five weeks Inter Milan, Atletico Madrid and Bayern Munich, beating them all, haven't conceded a single goal and scored 11. This game, though, particularly in the second half, we saw them looking more vulnerable than they've been yet.

15:36It was not their greatest performance from that point of view, But it was a brilliant match and they come out of it 2-0 winners. I thoroughly enjoyed the game. We talked about the other one being wild. This got a little bit crazy towards the end. But they did what a champion team do. And they didn't just sit behind the ball with nine men. They just went for it. And it was a brilliant game. I mean, Hakimi, again, just sort of somehow weaves his way past two or three players and cuts it back for Dembele, who could have scored moments earlier from another. breakaway. So yeah, they are so good to watch, PSG.

16:13The best team to watch on the planet. And if Real Madrid have Mbappe coming back, then PSG say, see you're Mbappe, raise you Usman Dembele. But it's not just him, is it? You know, Kovac Gelli has been brilliant, Douay as well. So yeah, this has the makings of being a bit of a belter, doesn't it? We think of PSG, you know, rightly as this incredible, exciting and beautiful team to watch and the best team in Europe, which they certainly are. but they're incredibly resilient. I mean, we saw that in this game, Bayern obviously dominated for pretty long spells but their ability to sort of withstand and soak up pressure against the very best opposition and then hit them on the counter is pretty exceptional.

16:51We forget that they sort of squeaked through the Champions League really, squeaked through against Liverpool on penalties, Villa gave them a hell of a game and then Arsenal in that second leg. The inter-final sort of makes you think they're by far the best team in the year but it's that mental resilience that Luis Enrique gives them. Is it interesting that they said their primary motivation for this game was revenge against Bayern? They hadn't beaten Bayern. They hadn't even scored a goal against them in the last four meetings. And one of which, well, last November they were defeated in the group state or league phase of the Champions League.

17:25But there was the 2020 Champions League final. Yeah, of course. But they were primarily talking about the game in November, which I'll be honest with you, I barely remember. But that ended up being the turning point, certainly in the Champions League campaign. and they also said really for the season. But I guess, again, it just shows the sort of mentality that they foster within the group. Luis Enrique didn't agree with that and said it was nothing to do with that, but the players certainly built it up that way. Dembele was sent off in that game, which had a big impact. I noticed Donnarumma got a lot of stick for his part in the Musiala injury afterwards.

17:56The Jermain Musiala, which well played Paris Saint-Germain, but everybody sat in, I was thinking about, Musiala, who'd just come back from three months out. It was his first start in three months. and Gigi Donnarumma goes for the same ball he's going for. And at the time, it just looked like one of those coming togethers. But then pretty soon you saw the reaction of the players around him. And there's stills that I think show that the nature of the impact on Muziala's leg from the incoming goalkeeper. And it's just horrible. What are they saying? Four months out with a fractured fibula and all sorts of kind of ligament-related damage, I should think.

18:35Sorry Adrian, what were you going to say? No, I personally felt that was a little bit harsh. Maybe I haven't seen that replay that you're specifically referencing. It was the reaction that Neuer seemed to be upset about, that he didn't immediately go over to comfort Murciano. That's what I read. I thought he was upset. He came off in tears, didn't he, at half-time? I think no player wants to injure another. And it's a 50-50. He's gone for it as a keeper, as you have to. It's just unlucky. I don't think he deserves any stick for that. four months as they say it does look a horrible injury and i don't know how easily quantifiable it is just to say yeah four months in your back because ankles stuff like that you know the fear it's longer than four months doesn't it it feels like an optimistic prognosis right and is there still a feeling i mean back in the day an ankle injury was 50 50 if you'd ever be the same player again but hopefully Musiala is going to get back to his exciting best anyway Wednesday night Real Madrid taking on Paris Saint-Germain this evening as we record Chelsea against Fluminense and that is the Club World Cup semi-final picture next up let's get on to the women's Euros in Switzerland

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23:21with Netherlands on Wednesday. Do you want to talk about Spain, first of all, and what they did on Monday night? Yeah, I was going to say, you mentioned Norway and Spain, and they've pretty much had diametrically opposite routes to getting six points out of six and qualifying for the quarterfinals because Norway have been dogged and determined and just about good enough to beat not particularly elite opposition, albeit 1-0 down to a host nation in your opening game, and winning is a good achievement. Spain have there's been a sense of Spain in the last two tournaments where they've not played within themselves but just played with that kind of naughties men's team Spain controlled and kind of killing the game and making sure they win it but not particularly caring how they do it and in the first two games of this tournament they look like they just want to throw down a gauntlet and say you can do whatever you want we can score goals if we want we can play tight at the back if we want they can see the two goals to Belgium who are arguably the fourth best team in that group, maybe the third best team in that group, but certainly not a quarter finalists.

24:26And they looked like they could score whenever they wanted. They scored six times. Their goals looked so, so simple. They already have scored five against Portugal, as you mentioned. And I think we feared at the start of the tournament that they might just be unstoppable if they decided to play with some swagger. Their second choice front three is probably the third or fourth best front three in the tournament, I think. And yeah, all of our, not fears because it's brilliant to watch, but all of our suspicions are being quickly proven true, I think. Yeah, the way they combine for that opening goal against Belgium, as good as anything you'll see from any team anywhere, really.

25:00And Portea's second goal was particularly cheeky. Yeah, they look like, it's a very simplistic way of saying it, but they look like they have half a second on the ball more than any opposition player. So when the opposition player gets it, because they're slightly living in fear of being pressed and that front three, they tend to slightly dwell on the ball and Spain swarm them. And as soon as a Spanish player gets the ball, they know the next pass. And that pass is generally to a player in space and they are making it look very easy so far, albeit not against elite opposition yet. They have a pretty good run to the semifinal, I think, even if they do have to play Italy in a quarter.

25:40But yeah, they just look head and shoulders above at the moment. Of course, they haven't faced England yet. England, the team that beat them in the Nations League not so long ago. England, whether they'll face Spain is a bit of an issue right now after what happened to the Lionesses last Saturday in their opening game against France. 2-1, Adrian. Yeah, it wasn't great. It was not a good performance from the Lionesses. Obviously, unlucky early on. Very sort of narrow offside decision goes against. Serena Vigman's team. Russo snaps up a rebound, but she's offside by a couple of centimetres, but it is what it is.

26:21But from that moment on, until the last 10 minutes, England were second best by country mile. The takeaway for me is very clear from this first game, and that's that this England side are physically miles off it. France were significantly sharper, much stronger, far more athletic and I would say fitter than England. And they completely overran us, if truth be told. So, yeah, how you fix that, I'm not quite sure. You probably have to make a change in midfield, bring in some younger legs. Georgia Stanway had a pretty poor game alongside Kira Walsh. It was pretty, it was a gamble, an unnecessary gamble, maybe from Serena Viegman to go with Stanway and James in the midfield because that's two of the three players that hadn't really had a lot of football over the last few months.

27:15So that was a gamble that backfired. And yeah, it was a pretty chastening loss. It wasn't until the end where really they just threw caution to the wind and suddenly got aggressive that England looked like the team that they can be. So yeah, big improvement needed against the Netherlands. Famously, it was the first time that Serena Wiegmann had had a team playing in the Euros and hadn't won the match. She'd been previously 12 for 12. So is the Wigman magic touch wearing off? I think they've got two problems. One, Adrian has completely nailed, which is in central midfield. The legs, it looks like they're trying to fit in one too many, slightly attacking-minded midfielder and leaving Keira Walsh.

27:56Absolutely loads to do, kind of the work of two players. And they've also got an issue at full-back because Lucy Bronze is way past her best. she's sort of in the team on name alone to my mind at the moment that might be a competition issue but she got done for the second goal and Jess Carter just she's a kind of trier and she looks like a makeshift left back and she looks like somebody who's kind of filling a position but when she faces speed and skill there's a there's an issue with her running back towards her own goal and that's how the first goal came and whereas I think Adrian's right they can try and shift things around to try and solve the midfield issue.

28:34I don't think they can solve the full-back issue. And it's no surprise to teams now. It's also what the Netherlands are really, really good at, particularly down that right-hand flank. So they'll just look to exploit Jess Carter again, I think. So it's Netherlands against England, five o 'clock UK time on Wednesday. A draw wouldn't end England's chances in that game, but it would mean that England would have to beat Wales by more than three goals, I'm guessing. Yeah, and also France will have beaten Wales, you'd imagine. So they will have qualified. Are they going to put out full strength side in the final group game against the Dutch?

29:09Of course they're not. So for me, it is a must win for England because I don't think you could particularly trust the other two not to cook up a draw that sends the holders out. So yeah, this is a high-pressure game. What I will say about Serena Wiegmann in regards to defeats is that whenever they've suffered one, they've come back pretty quickly. I remember watching a game against France, I think it was at St. James' Park, got beat, and then they went to France in the return match, I think four days later, completely outplayed the French. I think after losses, they tend to respond really, really well.

29:44But for me, and Daniel used the phrase for Lucy Bronze, you know, a few are maybe in the team on name rather than form. I wonder if she'll shake it up Serena Vigman and bring in one or two of the players that were on the bench for the first match it's going to be a really interesting starting at 11 I would shake it up because it yeah they were nowhere near the level that they need to be OK holders on the verge of being knocked out at the group stage first time that would ever have happened at the Women's Euros but we'll see Wednesday evening we're starting at 5 o 'clock next up let's have a bit of Transfer Talk.

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33:14This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC podcast network.

33:298th of July, listeners. We enjoy each other's company here in the Totally Football Show studio. 8th of July, Tim, was a big day for German football. It was on this day in 2014 that Germany delivered the most iconic thrashing in World Cup history, beating host Brazil 7-1. Crikey. In the Minha do Zao. That must have hurt so much for the Brazilians. Well, indeed. Still watching it now, you still can't quite believe it happens as it happens. It's just so quick. Yeah, it was brutal. Speaking of brutal. on this day in 1982 German goalkeeper Tony Schumacher produced the worst foul ever no question about this it's the worst foul ever he takes out Francis Patrick Battiston and really takes him out the challenge left Battiston unconscious with damaged vertebrae and missing teeth he later slipped into a coma referee took action awarding a goal kick for Schumacher astonishing listen if you not checked it out Don't worry, there's no grim replays.

34:36It's just a very wide angle of a man racing towards and on coming forward and extending his knee into his face. Yeah, sensational thuggery from Schumacher. All right, almost as ugly as on this day in 1990, when the worst World Cup final ever was decided by an Andi Bremer penalty, West Germany beating Argentina at the Stadio Olimpico in Rome. Transfers, everybody. We flagged up that Newcastle were hovering around Anthony Alanga last week. And that's gone through now, I believe. Daniel, a wistful moment for you, this, is it? Yeah, I mean, I love Anthony Alanga. I think it's Forrest's natural place in the order of things is that if they are going to reinvest heavily in a team for Europe or in a squad for Europe, then they're probably going to have to sell a big player every summer.

35:30I would have rather it was Alanga than Anderson or Gibbs White or Murillo. They would have been the four, I think, that could have moved for big money this summer, and one of them has. I think the only question for Newcastle, and Eddie Howe has been pretty much routinely excellent with every signing that's come into the club, but the only question for Newcastle is whether how Forrest played on the break with the third lowest possession in the Premier League and loads of space for Alanga to run into. the goal against Manchester United last season was kind of perfect embodiment of that. He runs for about 70 yards and he's the furthest player forward in red.

36:03Is how that happens at Newcastle, who have more possession, who use Jacob Murphy as more of a kind of regulation right winger. I'd back Elanga to do it and I think he can still improve, but I think the move pretty much works for both parties as long as Forrest now get two or three wingers in because, yeah, Callum Hudson-Odoi has only got a year left on his contract. Elanga was the other starting winger. Ramon Sosa is already going to Brazil. Jota Sosa is apparently being linked with other clubs. He didn't really kick on when he arrived. So Forrest probably need three wingers this summer now. You have got Igor Jesus arriving from Botafogo after his excellent performances at the Club World Cup.

36:40He looks like a really good foil for Chris Wood, assuming Forrest are in the Conference League next season rather than Europa League. I think Chris Wood's days of starting Thursday and starting Sunday are probably over. And I think they will still look to get another forward in or maybe a winger who can play centrally. But yeah, it's great for Jesus because he can start in those games. He can kind of hopefully get some confidence and then be kind of gradually pushed into the first team. He's still pretty raw even at 24 years old, I think, and it will take some time for him to settle. Excellent.

37:11Arsenal finally locked up. Martin Zubimendi. Martin Zubimendi, who Kiva O 'Neill was pointing out, actually, you know that famous youth team in the Basque Country where all the Basque managers played back in the day? He also came through there. Anti-Guoco, it may or may not be called. But anyway, more famously at Real Sociedad. And now finally, after about two years of courting, they brought him in. That's right, yeah. What does that mean for Arsenal? It's good news, that is for sure. I think that what he will bring is a little bit more nimbleness to the midfield. I think with Rice becoming this box-to-box guy, You need someone, Arsenal, at the base of the midfield that can defend, and he can, but someone that can really move the ball a little bit quicker than the players they had last season.

38:01And I think that that's the key. Get the ball into the front three or four a little bit sharper and it will obviously help them in those 1v1s against opponents. So, yeah, I'm a fan of Zubimendi. I think he's a good fit for Arsenal moving forward. So, yeah, patience has paid off. Excellent. Les Good, from an Arsenal perspective, has been the player whose place in the team he, to a large extent, will take over, and that's Thomas Partey. His contract ended not so long ago, Thomas Partey, with Arsenal, and just three days later came the news that he's been charged with five counts of rape and one count of sexual assault.

38:44I think it's fair to say. We have to be extremely careful with this story because there is a trial coming up, But I think it's fair to say that there were very few people in football who didn't know this, certainly including Arsenal, who had seen him arrested, in fact, for one of these counts of sexual assault, which were alleged to have taken place between 2021 and 2022. He was arrested, I think, for one of those in July 2022. Now, Thomas Partey has denied all charges and a statement for his lawyer says that he welcomes the chance to clear his name. There is a trial coming up. However, beyond any questions about guilt or innocence, there have been a lot of concerns raised about how Arsenal have behaved through this, given that they knew the serious nature of the allegations that he was facing.

39:32Should they not have suspended the player until his name was cleared or otherwise? Yeah, to my mind and in my opinion, they should have been. And every club, I think, should now sign up to a charter that says if one of your players, however valuable they are, whether they start or whether they work in the tea room, if any employee is accused of something so serious, then they should be suspended on pay. I know it's a difficult situation and I know, you know, it's not easy to come to that decision. But clubs like to talk about their values and they are very keen on writing them down. But your actions speak louder than what you write down.

40:10And, you know, yeah, I think it's really disappointing for Arsenal. And the one thing I would say is I've been pretty reassured by the vast number of Arsenal fans I've seen, mainly online, who have expressed their serious reservations about this. I think it's something that largely extends beyond club tribalism because I've seen some really disappointed and let down Arsenal fans. On one hand, there is the presumption of innocence. And in that sense, party would say, I have the right to continue working until I have the right until I have the chance. clear my name but I think as Daniel touches on it's the nature of the allegations that just means that it's a really bad look for the club when it comes out three years later to know that you've been playing him all this time a club let's remember that is that has not had issues about sidelining players that they didn't like for attitude or tactical reasons like Mesut Ozil or Aubameyang and not only that but was there does seem to be a misjudgment in terms of some of the ways that they've talked about Thomas Partey Arteta's famous quote about I'm so happy for him after everything he's been through and the fact that it does seem clear that they were trying to extend his deal only this spring I was just going to say that and I echo everything that you both said although Daniel said it must have been a difficult decision you know to allow him to continue playing i i don't know was it should it have been like you say the seriousness of the allegations just sort of overtakes all that for for me um and yeah it it is a difficult subject to talk about and there is trial and penning we do have to be careful but but given the allegations he faced and the fact that he was arrested in 2022 three years ago yeah absolutely so how did they come to that judgment that it was okay to allow him to go did do they just ask the player what's happened.

41:56It should be an immediate line drawn until it comes to a trial. And okay, that's taken three years, but that's completely irrelevant if it's three months or three years, given the seriousness of the allegations he shouldn't have been playing football. And I think we've all come to that conclusion a long time ago, actually, because as I say, this is the biggest open secret going, but Arsenal are the ones that haven't come to that conclusion. And therefore, whatever happens, they face serious questions about their sort of moral judgment. They're not the first club to find themselves in this predicament, sadly.

42:29And their conduct is not that strange in terms of waiting for charges to be filed before making the suspension. In the case of Manchester City with Benjamin Mendy, they did suspend him. And he successfully then, when acquitted, sued the club for unpaid wages. Yeah, and that's why I say difficult decision earlier, because, yeah, unfortunately, there is a precedent for this, in which, as you say, Manchester City were then claimed against for loss of earnings. And Mendy will have felt justified in that because of his not guilty verdict. It still doesn't mean that you don't have to follow that example.

43:09You can choose to do what many could consider the right thing to do morally, not necessarily financially or for the extent of the first team. To echo your thoughts, James, the thing that's disappointed me the most in the whole thing is that nobody, having made the decision to keep him and keep playing him, nobody, Mikel Arteta was the public face of Arsenal at that point and nobody worked out that maybe him talking up Thomas, not how he plays football, but his character and his personality and his resilience and things like that, that's what leaves the worst taste in everybody's mouth, I think.

43:41Well, it's a damaging story for Arsenal. Of course, there's a far more serious side to this story and best wishes to everyone involved in it. we await the verdict of the trial. Next up, let's move on to happier footballing tales with the Gold Cup.

44:06This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC podcast network.

44:20Gold Cup is the CONCACAF Championship, plus Saudi Arabia. It had its traditional USA-Mexico final on Sunday night, and Mexico had their traditional victory in it. Coming from behind, beat the United States 2-1 at the Energy Stadium in Houston. All the goals were scored by Premier League players. Palace's Chris Richards gave the US an early lead. Fulham's Raul Jiménez equalised, and he did the Diogo Giotto gaming celebration. Particularly lovely moment, that. West Ham's Edson Alvarez then grabbed the winner in front of what looked like a very strongly Mexico-supporting crowd in Houston. Felipe Cardina spoke to us after the game about what it all means.

45:11Felipe, first of all, big celebrations at the final whistle. How much joy will this have brought to Mexico and in Mexico? I just saw a report in Mexico that from a reporter saying, hey, like, it seems like we're always trying to to take down our national team because there's obviously the detractors are saying that they didn't beat a first team United States senior team. It was more of like a B team. But here's the thing about Mexico is anytime they beat the Americans, it's I think it's both a sense of pride and a sense of relief, because there is always that fear that they will lose to their little brothers.

45:50is one way that they put the U.S. in terms of football-wise. And so it's back-to-back trophies for Mexico. They won the Nations League, the CONCACAF Nations League. They were the strongest team in that Final Four. And then last night, really just outclassed a United States team that missing a lot of their first-time starters, first-teamers. But Mexico showed that not only were they better in quality, but just a more experienced side as well. Showing what you'd have to call a gulf in class. Yeah, there's a lot of Gulf of Mexico jokes today. Is it reading too much into it to ask whether not just the fact that they hadn't beaten the States since almost six years ago, but also with the whole political backdrop of what's been going on in the States beyond questions of naming the Gulf.

46:38Did that add any piquancy to the victory? I haven't seen the political side of it. And actually, Javier Aguirre, the manager, has done his best to try to stay away from that. Like he did say during Nations League that the Gulf of Mexico will always be the Gulf of Mexico. But since then, you know, with a lot of the protests around the country here in terms of immigration, a lot of Mexican-Americans and Mexican nationals, part of that issue here, he has stepped aside. He even said, I don't want to be a spokesperson. He was heavily criticized by a lot of reporters in Mexico for not having a stance on that.

47:15So I think looking back at the recent history against the United States, as you mentioned, there was a bit of a revenge factor, I think. Javier Aguirre during the Nations League, when they made the final, he was hoping to play the United States. I think that shows a bit of the bravado that's back for the Mexican national team in wanting to let the world know that they are the top team in CONCACAF. And so defeating the U.S., even if it's not the strongest U.S. team, the Gold Cup is still really important to Mexico. They won their – I believe it was their 10th title. That's the team that has won the most Gold Cups in history.

47:52And they want to maintain that distance from the United States, who I believe has won seven. So momentum is building. And that's the difference between these two co-hosts. Mexico – remember, they hit rock bottom after the 22 World Cup when they crash out on the group stage. Then they go to the Copa America last summer, crash out there as well on the group stage. And they were left thinking, you know, what does this team look like for the World Cup when we host, when we co-host with the United States and Canada? Javier Aguirre has brought in some younger players. He started a 16-year-old last night in that final, who I will say just now, I think he has Xavi Hernandez type skills.

48:31He's that type of midfielder. Very good, high ceiling, very composed for a 16-year-old. And that's the thing that Javier Aguirre has established. Like he's not out of touch. He's 66 years old, but he's bringing in younger players. And that has been something that a lot of the Mexican press and the fans have clamored for, like give these young guys a chance. So it's not that he has rebuilt the side. I think he's just chosen a few players. Marcel Ruiz, a tall, lanky central midfielder, different profile that you would see in Mexico, also brought in during this tournament and has established himself.

49:01So Javier Aguirre, I think, just establishing not only momentum, but saying last night, we want players that want to be here. That has been a problem in the past with players dipping out of national team duty or not really playing for their shirt, as they say. And that's something that he's turned around just one year away from the World Cup. Excellent. What's the name that we should be remembering of the 16-year-old? His name is Gilberto Mora, and he plays for Club Tijuana, which a modest team, a border team right on the border between the U.S. and Mexico. And he's 16. So yesterday people were saying, oh, he's not going to stay very long after this.

49:41Well, yeah, he will because he's 16 years old. He can't move to Europe until he's 18. But I was really mesmerized, to be honest with you, with his performance, not just last night. But he played in a tight game in the semifinal, really physical game against Honduras. and showed out well as there as well. And I guess the U.S., he was just, again, a strong performer, a steady type of midfielder that plays two-touch football, very smart, I think, and intelligent for his age, finds the right spaces, and just looks like the type of player that in the future, I think he can play at any level if he maintains, I think, just the skill set that he has.

50:20He's not a goal scorer, but certainly sort of that metronome in midfield. So a big name. I mean, if he goes to the World Cup as a 17-year-old and plays, you know, that's going to be big news. Indeed. Lots of positives then for the victorious Mexico. Pochino mentioning afterwards that once again, there was a raucous atmosphere for their opponents, a lot of Mexico fans there. He suggested that it had a bit of a bearing on one of the most controversial moments of the game, the penalty decision at 1-1 that didn't go the US's way. Any thoughts on that? Yeah, I was watching the game. I saw the first replay and felt, you know, it looks like a handball.

50:59I mean, if I'm if I'm a hardcore U.S. fan, I'm screaming at the television. I've since seen referees describe the play and saying that it is not an intentional handball like he's the defender Jorge Sanchez in this case is falling and he fell in a natural position. the ball happened to be there. I think what Mauricio Pochettino has done now for the second time, because when they played Guatemala in St. Louis, that was also a pro-Guatemala crowd. And I don't know if he skipped that slide on the PowerPoint when he was hired by the US, but this has happened for decades when the United States plays here at home, especially in friendlies or even official tournaments at the Gold Cup.

51:43These Central American countries, these CONCACAF countries are very well supported in the United States. And it's their only moment to go see their national team. There's just that connective tissue between the fan that has left his country and now can see their national team means a lot. So I know what he's trying to do. I think it's Pochettino's way of drumming up excitement and support for his national team. But he's been criticized for it because he seems a bit off base and out of touch with what the culture of football is in this country. The United States has never been a heavily supported team during World Cups.

52:19They are, but it's not like the women that is the U S women's team is sort of like the, the, the iconic soccer national team. And the U S men's have, have, have a lot of work to do to get there this world cup. I have no doubt that when they open in Los Angeles, it's going to be a huge crowd for the Americans and it'll look like what it's supposed to look like. But right now, Pochettino seems concerned that he's not getting the support that he expected. and I think that's just par for the course. That's what happens when you coach this national team. Okay, it's hard enough to get the players to turn up, let alone the fans for these.

52:50Exactly, exactly. Yeah, okay. Felipe, thank you so much for that. Look forward to speaking to you more as we count down towards our World Cup. Always a pleasure, take care.

53:03Felipe Cardenas. Tim, you're getting all misty-eyed over that Raul Jimenez mention there. Yeah, I guess, you know, but not in a nostalgic way because he's still doing it which is just the most amazing story I think yeah I think it's the second time he's won this tournament and he won the Nations League earlier I think he scored in that final scored in this final scored in the semi-final just a great guy great story back to his best I just find it this never happens he had like a year and a half when he didn't score in the Premier League it was like 30 games or something and now he's basically back to 1-2 or thereabouts so he's 34 despite basically nearly dying on the football pitch.

53:41I just think it's an amazing story, and he's such a nice guy as well. It's a good one. Excellent. Well, Mexico looking interesting, and as Filippo was mentioning, with Gilberto Mora, El Chamaco Mora, who Tom Harris wrote a lovely piece on. If you want to investigate this more, really worth digging out Mora's clips. He's now overtaken both Laminya Mal and Pele as the youngest ever player to lift an international trophy. He was 16 years and 265 days on Sunday evening. He started three times for Mexico in this tournament. And it's extraordinary. Just 16, not the biggest, but the way he'll just kind of go through tackles, tumble, but just get back up and keep going.

54:26It's, you don't stop him easily. Youngest goal scorer in Mexican top flight history at the age of 15. And Daniel. Yeah, I was going to say, to kind of bring this show back almost full circle, he actually reminds me of watching Arda Gouler when he was really, really young. He has the same, that kind of swagger of like, the more you kick me, the more I'll just bounce off you. That's, yeah, that is really, really kind of alluring in a young player. He will, on the evidence of this tournament, he will get lots of that kicking. So, yeah, as Felipe said, with the kind of not being able to move before 18 thing, It does create a remarkably extended, longer than I can ever think of before, like shop window period for agents and super agents and super clubs to kind of flirt around him and flutter eyelashes and try and sign him.

55:16To have everything so quick at 16 is almost pretty much unprecedented. I know we talk about Lamin Jamal, but he was already in an elite European academy and had kind of had the La Masia development. This is different. This is like a complete out of nowhere player. So it was really fascinating to see where he goes next. I was surprised. I'm staggered that Chelsea haven't bought him yet on some 10-year deal. See, by the time this pod drops, whether that's changed at all. There you go. Well done to Mexico. And looking forward to seeing them in action in the World Cup, which they're joint hosting next summer.

55:52To finish off today, let's have some InterTotally Cup. We already have Tom Williams and Julian Arons taking on each other in one semifinal. This week we're going to find out who's going to be in the other and a top, top matchup coming up for you today, which we recorded a little bit earlier.

56:15This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. Well, welcome to last Friday and the third quarterfinal of this InterTotally Cup. Already through to the semifinal, we have Tom Williams and Julian Laurent. But who will be going through on the other side of the draw? Well, today, two familiar names are bidding for their semifinal spot.

56:49up first he's a cycling fan who's definitely not taken any performance enhancing drugs based on his previous intertotally performances but he is the stat daddy the dark lord of data and the og of xg he is duncan alexander we're conductors of sound heat and energy Duncan Alexander, welcome. Hi. Hi. Producer Ben, that was. A bit mean, wasn't it? Making an ironic reference to your lack of success. What's the issue, do you think? What's it been? Too much knowledge or just no access to your shiny machines? Well, I have probably become much like Anakin Skywalker, over-reliant on machines to keep me going down the years.

57:31Right. And, yeah, it's very much a poacher-turned-gamekeeper scenario. You know, I'm used to setting the questions. I see. But yeah, here we are. I'm on the other side of the fence. Have you ever... You've never reached a semi-final before? Yeah, I've got to a semi before. Have you reached? Yeah. Okay. What would it mean to reach one now? It'd mean a lot. I mean, obviously, I got probably the worst draw you can get. You're playing the system. The man himself. Right. Charlie Jones, who is a very, very knowledgeable man. And can also, as I've pointed out, edit the podcast any way he likes. So I definitely said these words in this order.

58:08memories of 2023 nice good well let's meet your opponent

58:20and his opponent he's the son of the Luxembourg dream who's experienced plenty of hard times and commemorated his 2023 into totally win by having the trophy tattooed garishly onto his neck he is the Chingford Nightmare it's producer Charlie Well, Producer Charlie, 2023 champion, anything you'd like to say to your trash-talking rival today? Yeah, I mean, the trash-talking wasn't part of the rehearsal we did earlier, so I don't know where that's come from. Producer Charlie, who stormed through this competition only two years ago, and as Duncan was hinting, regarded as possibly the favourite this time around as well.

59:01Whoever does go through from this match-up will be taking on either Michael Cox or Daniel Storey in the semi-finals. So, boy, this is a tough, tough side of the draw. Very good. If you're ready then, Charlie, we'll give you the first question.

59:23Which England tournament squad were all of the following players involved in? Steven Gerrard, Steve McManaman, Tony Adams and Kevin Phillips. Euro 2000. Correct. Duncan Alexander, your first question. Which England tournament squad were all of these players in? Wayne Rooney, David James, Jermaine Defoe and Michael Dawson. Say the names again. Wayne Rooney, David James, Jermaine Defoe and Michael Dawson. 2010 World Cup. Boom. It's 1-1 and we move on to question two. Duncan, at which World Cup were the losing semi-finalists Croatia and the Netherlands? Which World Cup?

1:00:182018. No, don't do... Yeah, 2018. Are you going with 2018?

1:00:28I think you are it's 1998 I totally get why you would have said that listen you probably do too 1998 Croatia and the Netherlands 2018 was the losing semi-finalists England and Belgium England and Belgium met very much the Croatia and Netherlands but in a different guise Charlie Jones with an opportunity to take a one point lead at which World Cup were the losing semi-finalists Brazil and the Netherlands

1:01:03Can I have to hire you?

1:01:09Brazil and the Netherlands losing semifinalists. Which World Cup? Oh, 2014. Correct. A one-point lead then for Charlie as we head in to question three. Charlie, who am I? Manager Edition I won the European Cup in the 1980s I have managed my home nation but took a foreign team to the World Cup semifinals. I briefly managed a Premier League team on two different occasions. But who am I? Goose Hiddink It's correct Damn Duncan. This to keep just a point behind. Who am I? Manager Edition. I won the Champions League in the 1990s but I lost a further three finals with the same club, I have managed the Chinese national team and have also won the World Cup.

1:02:02Who am I? Lippy? Is correct. It's 3-2 then as we head into question four. Don't get to keep the pressure on, producer Charlie. Tell me, which Hollywood star is a part owner of Bournemouth?

1:02:26Michael... What's his name? The guy from The Wire.

1:02:34Called Michael. Michael from The Wire. That's surely... That's the knowledge. Michael Jordan. It is correct. I think we can accept the omission of the middle initial B. We only use that initial because of the other Michael Jordan. Right. So it's currently 3-3 as we ask Charlie, which English club is former NFL star JJ Watt a part owner of? Burnley. Well, that's impressive and it keeps you one point ahead as we head into the final question. If Duncan, you pull level here and Charlie doesn't get his question, we're into tiebreaker territory. So let's see. First of all, if you can answer your fifth question, which is, these two pieces of information apply to two different footballers who share the same name.

1:03:31Give the correct name from these two pieces of information. Player A won the two league titles with Arsenal. Player B made his debut for Leeds United in 1998. They share a name. One of them won two league titles with Arsenal. Juan made his debut for Leeds United in 1998. Alan Smith. Is correct. So obvious once you say it. Yeah. I thought they were the same person. I didn't. I'm joking.

1:04:05Laughing through the tension, Duncan Alexander and pulling level on four points apiece. But one final question for producer Charlie. Charlie, these two pieces of information apply to two different footballers. and yes, they also share the same name. Player A appeared for two Premier League clubs in London and finished his career in China. Player B, his namesake, won two league titles with Celtic and is currently with Al Etifak in Saudi Arabia. What name do they share? Can you repeat the question please, sorry. Player A appeared for two Premier League clubs in London and finished his career in China.

1:04:51Another player by the same name won two league titles with Celtic and is currently with Al Etifak in Saudi Arabia.

1:05:03I don't know is the answer, so I would just say Scott McDonald. Is incorrect. Do you know, Duncan Alexander, who this is? I'm baffled, but I think Colin Miller is nodding like a man does. Colin Miller is with us. Colin? Moussa Dembele? Is correct! Well, I'm glad you got it because I do feel that that is... That Nick Miller, who's done the questions, has done you a little bit harshly there with that fifth question, producer Charlie. But such is your reputation that he obviously felt a stern test was required. It means that it's level on four points apiece. And we move into the tiebreaker. The tiebreaker, listener.

1:05:49Let's have a little bit more music just to ramp things up further.

1:05:56All right, the tiebreaker. Taking it in turns, Duncan and Charlie must name players who have been top scorers outright or shared at a men's World Cup. We keep going until one player gives an incorrect answer and the other one manages to give a correct answer in the same turn. Let's decide who goes first, though, because there is a slight advantage to that. It's the time-honoured tradition and great audio content of rock, paper, scissors. On three, one, two, three. Charlie's gone with scissors. Duncan has gone with rock. Charlie, you go second. Duncan, you give us the first top scorer outright or shared at a Men's World Cup.

1:06:42Gary Lineker. Is correct. Charlie. Toto Scalacci. Is also correct. Duncan. Oleg Celenko. Also valid. Davosuka. Yes. Ronaldo. The R9. Correct. Thomas Muller. Yes. Duncan. Paolo Rossi. Is correct. Harry Kane. Correct.

1:07:23The speed of that reply. Putting the pressure on Duncan Alexander. Now we're into difficult moments, as they say.

1:07:38I've been editing Michael Cox's History of World Cup Winners series, but crucially it's World Cup winners, not World Cup top scorers, which is slightly annoying.

1:07:51Pallet. He's incorrect, Duncan. So now, for a place in the semi-finals, Charlie Jones, name a World Cup top scorer. Kylian Mbappe Boom! And he's there Duncan it was close He took the former champ All the way to the tiebreaker Think of the names He could have had though James Rodriguez Christo Stojkov Miroslav Kloza Mario Kempez Kahincha Just Fontaine Yeah yeah yeah It was low Eusebio And so on and so forth Crikey That means that Producer Charlie You are through To the semi-finals How do you feel? Yeah relieved I definitely Pele, I was not far away from saying Pele. I feel the way you came in with Harry Kane so swiftly after Duncan's last response almost floored him.

1:08:43It was, yeah, disconcerting. I was going to say closer, which is annoying. Right. But then I got confused around your Ronaldo's and closer's in the same period. But fair play, you know, a tiebreaker is a tiebreaker. It's very much closer, but no cigar for you. Very good. Duncan, I'd excited. Or not closer, in fact. Just Fontaine heading home, as they say. Indeed. Something for the Muller, it's over. Yeah. Excellent. Well done, producer Charlie. On Thursday, we'll be discovering who you'll be facing in the semi-final. Again, it's either Michael Cox or Daniel Story. For now, though, that's it for the InterTotally Cup.

1:09:31wow that was the sweet sweet sound of last friday and victory for producer charlie daniel you're up on thursday against michael cox yes never has the case of taking it one quiz at a time been more appropriate i think than thinking about a semi-final okay all right very sage we'll have that tussle of quiz Titans for you in our next show which we'll also have of course a warm appreciation of the two semi-finals in the Club World Cup the latest news from the women's Euros and no doubts from Transfer Talk 2 steely look in Daniel Story's eyes wasn't there just at the thought of that upcoming semi-final I think he's in it's business for him maybe personal I don't know The problem is it's also business for Michael Cox, and Michael Cox knows quite a lot about football.

1:10:25That's my only doubt, that Michael Cox knows quite a lot about football. That's why we're all looking forward so much to Thursday's clash, this PSG Real Madrid, if you will, of intertotally quizzing. So, yeah, make sure you join us for that. Now, that's pretty much it for today's show. It's a big, big thank you to Felipe Cardenas, to Daniel Storey, to Adrian Clark and Tim Spears and of course producer Charlie. And you're listening too. Do have a great midweek and join us again on Thursday for now. From all of us here it's goodbye.

1:11:02You've been listening to The Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. For more great football podcasts like this one, including The Athletic FC and our six dedicated club podcasts, search for The Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. The Totally Football Show is an Athletic Media Company production.

1:11:25The Athletic FC Podcast Network.

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