PSG stun Barca, plus a big weekend for Liverpool, Man City & Amorim

0:00The Athletic FC.

0:30Liam Tharme: Gunner in this Totally Football Show.

0:38Liam Tharme: Thursday, 2nd of October. Hi there, listener. Got a Totally Crew for you today comprising Tom Williams. All right, Tom. Hello, James. Lovely, Tom. Thank you. Yourself also. Jack Lang's here. James. Lovely to see you, Jack. And also, welcome back, Liam Tharn. Thank you. Good morning, James. It's been a while, Liam. It has. You've been on the athletics beat.

1:00Tom Williams: Have I?

1:01Liam Tharme: Haven't you?

1:02Tom Williams: Well, I guess so. I guess I'm always on the beat. Yeah, I bet you are. Yeah.

1:06Jack Lang: Ah, you mean athletics as in the sport, as in rather than the beat of the organisation who we all work for. That momentarily threw me, but I get, you know.

1:13Liam Tharme: Oh, yeah, I can see the confusion. That's the problem we have with it. We'll go again, listen. No, no, no. You didn't hear that last. You've been covering athletics for the athletics. Yes, that's right, James. Bingo. Had a good fun this summer. Listen, you joined us just in time because we've already covered some meaty topics today. Tom's thrown in a bit of Proust

1:30Jack Lang: I mean Jack forced me into it but I did yeah

1:33Liam Tharme: what was the context Tom?

1:35Jack Lang: it was rare for Jack very rare even I would say but he had made an inaccurate reference to Proust's Madeleine as to when one might have recourse

1:45Liam Tharme: to refer to it I enjoyed him deploying the Madeleine but as you correctly pointed out

1:51James Richardson: it was a white whale situation yeah I suppose this stems from the fact

1:56Liam Tharme: that Cornwall famously lacks two things, Jack.

2:01James Richardson: Quite a lot of things, but in the context that we were talking, yeah, a motorway and a KFC. So it was one of the things that I was disproportionately excited about when I moved to London at 18. Not the motorway, the KFC.

2:14Liam Tharme: I was disproportionately excited about the fact that Time Out have just announced that the coolest neighbourhood in the world is in Tokyo, and it's called Jimbo Town, Jimbo Chou. which is full of bookshops apparently, as you'd expect, Liam. And what else do we have this morning? Oh, yeah. What's his name? Renato Shampoo?

2:36James Richardson: Mauro Shampoo.

2:37Liam Tharme: Mauro Shampoo.

2:38James Richardson: Yeah.

2:39Liam Tharme: So you were listening to our recent Totally Extra on the subject of the worst team in Premier League history.

2:46James Richardson: The Derby County episode, yeah.

2:47Liam Tharme: A sensitive and compassionate retelling of their calamitous season.

2:51James Richardson: Yeah. And it rang a bell because I am currently writing a piece about a team that calls itself the worst team in the world.

2:59Liam Tharme: Yeah, I feel that's not really the idea, is it? You're not supposed to be the...

3:03James Richardson: Well, this is the thing, James. When the piece is out in a week or two, they actually really lean into it. Yes. And they've made it their brand and are beloved for it.

3:13Liam Tharme: Okay. And who is Massimo Shampoo?

3:16James Richardson: Mauro Shampoo, the non-Italian version of my guy, was their star player in a way, but only scored once in about 10 years. Okay. And is... He looks fabulous. He looks fabulous. He's a hairdresser by profession.

3:31Liam Tharme: Liam pointed out he looks not unlike that unfortunate Man United fan who has vowed not to visit a barbers until United win five games in a row. How are they doing on that? What's the closest they've come to five in a row? Has Amory even won back-to-back games?

3:48Tom Williams: I mean, not many teams win five in a row. Even good ones, you often get a draw or a loss in there. So five is bold.

3:56James Richardson: Two the whole of the last Premier League season, two teams managed, I think.

3:59Tom Williams: And I think even Liverpool didn't manage five in a row, did they? So there's always a rogue draw in there at some point, and that's fine. But if you're counting for five, then you might have a while to go. Yeah.

4:11Liam Tharme: Well, we'll discuss maybe whether they can start a new winning run this very weekend.

4:17Jack Lang: But first of all... Whether there's a danger that that becomes medically problematic at some point. At what point does your hair get so heavy that he's going to require medical intervention?

4:28James Richardson: Cause of death, Manchester United.

4:30Jack Lang: Yeah, can you imagine? His head gets so heavy from the hair. You and I have many questions about it. This is why I asked the question. I know not of what I speak.

4:38Liam Tharme: I think that for many, many millennia, humans existed without barbers. And as far as I know, it was more likely to be a saber-toothed tiger or mammoth that killed you.

4:48Jack Lang: It starts getting in his eyes and he can't see. What if it causes an accident? You just have a hairband. and tie it up. He's got a, it's a proper, it's a very, it's a real thicket of hair though, isn't it? He's got very thick looking hair. He has. I'm just sounding the alarm at this, we don't, you know, Amarim's got enough on his plate without a death on his hands.

5:07James Richardson: Luckily, and I will try and move this on, we are in a new era of super chunky footballer headbands.

5:14Jack Lang: I was going to mention this.

5:15James Richardson: Anthony Gordon's. Incredible. Covers his entire forehead. To me, it just makes me long for the heyday of the headband. A simpler time. Your Alessandro Nesta headband, no more than like three or four millimetres thick, pinning the sides back. Yeah, because I mean, Anthony Alanga

5:35Jack Lang: sports a sizable headband.

5:37Tom Williams: But thin.

5:38Jack Lang: But a thinner one. Anthony Gordon's headband covers his entire forehead. It's awful, I think.

5:44Tom Williams: Something about Anthony's headband.

5:46Jack Lang: I mean, clearly. And there was someone playing for Union San Diego Wells, the opposition, who was wearing like a little dainty kind of Patrick Berger style 90s headband. It was just a reminder that you don't need to go that big. There are other options. I find it an interesting stylistic decision.

6:03James Richardson: Have you seen the tweet about Anthony Gordon trying to do all the Lady Diana haircuts? He's probably just trying to escape that. I've just got to get something to cover this up. Looking for a Lady Diana headband picture as we speak.

6:16Liam Tharme: Okay, well, that was one of the takeaways from Wednesday night's action. Newcastle getting their biggest ever win in the Champions League proper. 4-0 away at Union Saint-Giroir. Elsewhere, Wednesday saw a late goal from Gonzalo Ramos. As Paris Saint-Germain triumphed 2-1 away to Barcelona and Montjuic. Arsenal were 2-0 winners against Olympiacos. Manchester City, meanwhile, saw two points disappear right at the death of their clash with Monaco, with Eric Dier winning and converting a penalty to make it 2-2. Same scoreline for Villarreal at home to Juventus. And a late equaliser for the home side there too.

6:56Liam Tharme: Courtesy of Renato Vega, his first goal for the Spanish side. Napoli beat Sporting 2-1. Rasmus Hoyland getting a brace there. Both set up by Kevin De Bruyne. Dortmund thumped Athletic Bilbao 4-1. It was all square between Leverkusen and Pérez Fé. And Carabao beat Copenhagen 2-0. That's two wins out of two for the champions. of Azerbaijan, one of six clubs on two wins out of two, the other five being Arsenal, Inter, Real Madrid, Bayern and your Paris Saint-Germain. Shall we start with the Paris Saint-Germain and their trip to Barcelona, the eagerly anticipated clash on Wednesday night?

7:39Tom Williams: This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC podcast network.

7:48James Richardson: In difficulty, diminuée, assume their status. But Akimi accélère, and he saw Ramos, he's got an advance. Gonzalo Ramos! At the end of the road, the Parisians and Gonzalo Ramos who have to jump and tie the Barça!

8:02Liam Tharme: Well, I've got no idea what that was about, but I can tell you that Gonzalo Ramos won the match there at Mongewick, coming on as he does, Liam, scoring a winner as he does.

8:12Tom Williams: Yeah, it's a great part of the PSG puzzle, really, that for all the kind of technical brilliance and diverse top players they've got. Luis Enrique has still got space in the squad for just a pure number nine. The guy's got a World Cup hat-trick and, you know, it's kind of, people see it as almost reduced to coming off the bench and playing a role that way, but came off the bench to score in the Super Cup, has had a lot of late goals for PSG across the seasons and that's why he's there on a day where they don't have Ousmane Dembele and they start Mayulu, a youngster and more of a midfielder and kind of a false nine role.

8:43Tom Williams: Sometimes you need that player to come on, especially when Barcelona were so aggressively high with that defensive line.

8:48Liam Tharme: A lot of people asking about that. That's a Hansi Flick trademark. It's Bayern days and at Barca as well.

8:54Tom Williams: I don't think the tactic was inherently a problem. It was kind of the left back and centre back were trying to... One was filling in with the other and they tried to basically switch back and then went, oh no, we've got to panics. And that was why Hakemi, I think, ended up in so much space. It was more the execution of it that was inherently a problem. And it's a Martians thing as well, because Ramos had obviously jogged so far offside and held his position just right. that it was a really good PSG move rather than anything poor defensively.

9:19James Richardson: What I did like was that it wasn't just onside because one defender was back. The four players were playing him onside. So if you're going to be done, be done like that. Tom, you weren't able to see any of this.

9:32Liam Tharme: No, I did.

9:33Jack Lang: Oh, you did? I saw it all, James. I thought you were meant to be watching Monaco Man City for us. I watched them both.

9:37Liam Tharme: I second screened. Which one was your first screen? PSG. Yeah. I think it was for all of us now. Did it, I know it was a cracking game and there were some beautiful moments in it. 27 shots in total, a late winner. For me, and I hope I'm not wrong about this, but it didn't quite live up to the, and I feel that's because it was the second stage of the league phase and they all feel a bit like exhibition matches.

10:00Tom Williams: What were you hoping for that was missing? What would you need? Is it more goals?

10:04Liam Tharme: No, it just didn't, I didn't get the sense that it mattered too much.

10:09James Richardson: I think there was a slight tendency in the run-up to people. this was the final that we should have had last year. And so they're kind of, oh, it's almost kind of a go again. But yeah, there's just no peril in the group stage. And I think it was a good match. It was interesting, some nice attacking football. But yeah, it did lack a little bit of the pure desperation, I think, that comes with knockout football. And the reality is I don't think any match in the group stage is going to get your heart pumping in this format, frankly.

10:42Liam Tharme: Right. I think people had that issue with the old group stage, but you had less time to make up any mistakes in that one. Whereas when you got eight, there's plenty of time to rectify any missteps.

10:52Jack Lang: Although, you know, last season we saw that there was a degree of jeopardy towards the end of the league phase. You know, the PSG-Man City game, which was kind of the big turning point in PSG's season, that was in the league phase. And that felt crucial. And, you know, Real Madrid, Man City also went into those matches needing results. But yeah, in the second group game, you're not going to have that sense of jeopardy. But I thought it was a really impressive result for PSG, particularly given all the absentees. I mean, they were missing six of the players who started the Champions League final, five through injury in January, which is obviously no longer there.

11:29Jack Lang: And the first kind of 20 minutes made you think that they might really struggle. Barca were on top, Barca got the opening goal. But second half in particular, it felt like they just kind of ground Barca down. and you kind of find yourself thinking it draws a decent result here for PSG in the circumstances. So for them to go on and win it at the end with no Dembele, Douay, Kvaric-Gallia, Joanne Eves, etc. is a really strong sign of how much depth there is in their squad and kind of shows that they remain the team to beat.

12:03Liam Tharme: Lovely to see Laminia Marlbach.

12:05Jack Lang: That dribble in the second minute. when you think about the amount of expectation there is around him the excitement that he generates the extent to which people look forward to watching him and literally the first time he touches the ball it's that little shimmy step over roulette right I think it's the best

12:22Liam Tharme: left back in the world as well according to Jack Lang

12:24James Richardson: yeah I don't see there's much of a debate about that unless you'd like to bring him I bet well you're probably a Federico Di Marco fundamentalist I think he is a very good player has been pretty bad recently yeah um yeah i don't see many other options out there to be honest and i you know i was writing about this in our briefing piece for me actually an argument to be made that he's the best fullback full stop like hakemi would probably have something to say about that but mendez to me is maybe a little bit more complete than hakemi i better defensively a touch better defensively but also i think i think mendez is a really good passer between the lines like he can do the whole bombing down the wing thing.

13:06James Richardson: Obviously set up the goal with a run that drove him inside. But actually on the ball, when he can pick out those passes, it's often Fabian Ruiz in between the lines. Really astute passer of the ball as well. And very young. Yeah, fantastic player.

13:21Liam Tharme: Best fullback in the world. Should he have actually had a red card in this game?

13:25James Richardson: Yeah, definitely. He was booked for a cynical slash smart foul on Jamal in the first half and then tripped Jamal pretty clearly on the edge of his own box about an hour in. And, yeah, Michael Oliver, I guess...

13:41Liam Tharme: Yeah, Michael Oliver didn't...

13:42James Richardson: Just wanted us to chat about how good Mendes is today.

13:46Tom Williams: Is that the aura of Mendes now? I think so. That he's not, you know, referees are scared to send him off.

13:51Liam Tharme: That goal that he set up for a 19-year-old senior, Mayulu, who'd featured to devastating effect in that ever-so-tight Champions League final against Inter, the opening goal from Barcelona what a lovely what a lovely move that was Marcus Rashford as well some people have questioned how well he would integrate with Barcelona but he looked pretty integrated there

14:14Tom Williams: I didn't think he was in the game massively and it quite impressed me he felt quite disjointed a lot was going down Barca's right hand side because obviously they had Luminum there and I thought really they looked most threatening when they actually made those regains in midfield PSG had a few errors and it got to a point where it felt like Rashford and Jamal especially I think in the second half were kind of just clipping switches of play to each other as soon as they got the ball back. So I think that's always a sign of an attacker being in good form or real confidence. Hakimi tends to leave that space as well with how aggressive he tends to play.

14:41Tom Williams: That Rashford, even though he wasn't on the ball all the time, didn't have the touches that Yumao did, definitely had a really big impact on the game. So I think it bodes well for him.

14:49Liam Tharme: And then the Gonzalo Ramos goal in the 90th minute, which made it 2-1 and was the first ever 90th minute winner that a visiting team have scored at Barcelona in the history of European competition. That's a remarkable, remarkable stat. It's been a great week in the Champions League for French sides. We'll get into what Monaco did against Man City next.

15:21Tom Williams: This is the Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. The Athletic is the only place you can read articles by Daniel Taylor, Amy Lawrence, Phil Hay, James Pearce, Oli Kay and the very best football writers around.

15:34Jack Lang: Good week for the franchise, eh, Tom? It was, yeah. Marseille with a fantastic win against Ajax on Tuesday. 4-0. 4-0. And then Monaco completely unexpectedly getting a point off City. Very, very deservedly. Very deservedly. Was it? Well, in the sense that they were under the cosh. City hit the bar a couple of times. City created chances. City should have won. But, you know, Monaco had spells of pressure. Donnarumma had to make a really good one-handed save from Magnus Akliusz with about half an hour to play. You know, they did manage to create periods of pressure and ultimately punish City for not doing more with all the possession they had.

16:15Jack Lang: But, yeah, I mean, Monaco couldn't really have gone into this match in worse nick. A huge long list of injury absentees, pretty sketchy form up to date. They lost 4-1 to Club Brugge in their opening game and defended like a team of under sevens. And in the pretty much press conference, Adi Hutter was asked for reasons to believe in his team. And the only thing he could come up with was, well, in football, you never know. In football, you never know. Which suggested that he accepted that they were probably going to lose quite comfortably. And as it turned out, it was not the case. No, thanks to Eric Dyer.

17:08Jack Lang: In the late 80's you had Glenn Uddle and Marc Atlee, so now you have Eric Dior as well.

17:22Liam Tharme: I regard that as mangling. I think that's a significant upgrade. Give a bit of continental elan.

17:27Jack Lang: I mean, true. You know, I guess it depends on your perspective. How do they introduce you on match of the day? Tom Williams.

17:35Liam Tharme: That's lovely, isn't it?

17:36Jack Lang: And then I have to pronounce all the team names in an absurd French accent. Go on, then. Manchester United, Liverpool, Bournemouth. I cannot tell you how much French people struggle with Bournemouth. Because French people cannot pronounce the TH. So you get Bonamousse quite a lot. Bonamousse. Obviously, I can pronounce my THs, but I don't want to rub it in. So I kind of... So was it Southampton? Southampton, yeah. Kenilworth Road.

18:05Liam Tharme: When Luton were in the Premier League,

18:07Jack Lang: I mean, all manner of pronunciation. Kenilsois Road. And sometimes they will take an extremely banal-looking name and give it new life. Will Hughes. Who's got a more boring name than Will Hughes? I mean, very few footballers. Will Hughes. and you're watching Crystal Palace even if you're not really paying attention every time you hear Oogs Oogs Oogs who was the other one Jeff Schlupp oh dear Jeff Schlupp in French accent Schlupp Jeff Schlupp

18:34James Richardson: Schlupp John B

18:35Liam Tharme: incredible nice yeah I mean somewhere there's an equivalent German podcast chortling over the mangling we do two various oh big time German names and so on and so forth but anyway that's a fascinating little window that could be your next book about the language of football how to yeah how to mangle Anyway, we're talking about Man City at Monaco Erling Haaland scored with his first touch of the game In fact, that's extraordinary He scored two goals in this game Taking him to 52 goals in 50 Champions League appearances Two goals in this game But he only completed one pass in the first half Remarkable That wasn't kick-off, was it?

19:15Liam Tharme: Sticking them in the back of the net The kick-off was one of his seven touches, I think, in the first half two of which resulted in goal. As many as seven.

19:23Jack Lang: And he was annoyed that he'd not scored more. Is that right? Because he had a chance at 1-1. Philip Kern, the Monaco goalkeeper, pushed out a shot and Haaland came in. Kind of looked like he had an open goal, but it was quite a tight angle. And then second half towards the end, he had a shot that was well saved. But I wouldn't say it's becoming a recurring problem for City, but this is, I think, the third or fourth time this season where they've seemed to be in control of a game and not put it to bed. Obviously, that's what happened against Arsenal with the draw, Gabriel Martinelli equalising in stoppage time.

19:58Jack Lang: Similar thing happened in the defeat at Brighton where they went ahead, got pegged back and then conceded a late winner. And in terms of their possession and the chances they created, I mean, okay, they hit the crossbar twice. They were literally millimetres away from winning this game, you know, 3-1 or 4-1. But it is a bit of an issue. And I kind of wonder in this new phase in City's development where they don't just completely dominate all aspects of the game and they look to hit on the break a little bit more, does it make them a bit more vulnerable to being caught out like this at the end of games?

20:34Liam Tharme: I would have thought the opposite, no? if you're looking at the great...

20:38Jack Lang: If City are setting up their stall in the opposition half and just keeping their opponents a mile from their goal, then it doesn't matter that they're not adding a third or a fourth goal. But when they're content to sit back, which they do more and more frequently, they have that possession in a dangerous area. It leaves them open. And Monaco had made a couple of decent chances even before the free kick that led to the penalty at the end.

21:00Liam Tharme: We should salute Jordan Terze, is it? Yes. Who equalised for Monaco, straight after Erling Haaland's first goal. And then the second Monegasque strike was from the spot, courtesy of Eric Dier, who'd won the penalty after being kicked in the head. Or was he? Was that fair, do you think, Jarrett? What was your take?

21:20James Richardson: I didn't see it multiple times. I think he was shinned in the head. Yeah, it looked reasonable to me.

21:26Jack Lang: It was like the Wayne Rooney overhead kick against Man City in 2011 of penalty area challenges and that it was shin rather than foot.

21:33James Richardson: What I like, though, is that Dier took the penalty with grass and debris still on his forehead. But I like that. You watch Cristiano Ronaldo look at himself on the big screen a hundred times a game and touch his hair. And a lot of players do this. Dier just like, yeah, I'm in the battle, in the zone.

21:52Liam Tharme: Excellent. Great thing. You had something else I think you wanted to offer on this game.

21:55James Richardson: Yeah, with City, what strikes me a lot with Guardiola, not just this season, but in previous seasons, is I think it's quite a rare thing for an elite team to have a non-fixed best back four. Like City rotate at the back more than any other top team I can think of. You've got Guardiola playing left back one week, centre back the next week. Akanji right back, centre back, being loaned into Milan. They've got Kuzinov playing some weeks, doesn't play for then three or four weeks. John Stones disappears for months at a time, comes back in at right back. Like Riquel Lewis is right back, centre midfield.

22:32James Richardson: You've got all these players, they're all really good, but there's no settled back four. And I think that, you know, Guardiola has forgotten more about football in the last 10 minutes than I will ever know. But it strikes me as quite rare.

22:46Jack Lang: Curiously, at a time when he's, you know, shifting things around in his defence, his midfield and attack are more settled than they have ever been. I can't remember there having ever been a time before when you knew which midfield and attack would be aligned. And I think that speaks to the fact that we are still emerging from City's very problematic last season. And I don't think Guardiola trusts himself to make loads of changes in attacking areas week to week. He knows that when it's, you know, Silva, Foden, Rinders, Dokku, Haaland, they're going to do what he wants them to do. And I guess it's also a reflection of the injury situation, Chucky being out, Marmouche being out, etc.

23:29Jack Lang: But in almost every other previous Man City season, there has just been this constant conveyor belt of changes in attack. And in the last few weeks, the famous Pep Roulette, which FPL managers in particular have come to learn to regret. But at the present time, there is a very set hierarchy in midfield and attack.

23:48Tom Williams: I think he's done that with centre-backs for a long time now, especially with Ruben Diaz and seasons gone past. and he said that kind of they've all got different profiles and City end up playing sort of different types of games against different teams and therefore he needs those different profiles. I mean, when you look at how this starting 11 is kind of balanced, it's like a textbook modern kind of Guardiola against a back five low block type team where you've got basically four big dudes at the back. You've got a centre-back playing out at right back. You've got, you know, Rodri sat in the kind of number six role.

24:19Tom Williams: You've got your big guy up front and then you've got four small technicians and quick technical players all kind of in midfield and out wide. And it's just that massive contrast where, you know, the size and physicality difference of where he does want it with his kind of proper defenders at the back and there, where he then wants kind of his pocket players and his technical guys out wide.

24:36Liam Tharme: Interesting. They're at Brentford at the weekend, who got an excellent record at home, held Chelsea to draw, beat Aston Villa, beat Man United last time out. It's been interesting to see if City stays settled for that one. We'll talk more about Premier League match day. What are we on now? Seven a bit later on. But the other Premier League sides, Arsenal with 2-0 winners against Olympiacos. Martinelli started scoring. Saka ended it. Gunners with a couple of nervy moments in between, including a shot from Daniel Podenza, which brought one of the saves of the midweek. Did you see this, Liam? I did.

25:15Liam Tharme: It's a curious award, though. A save off the midweek is a... It's a thing, is it? Yeah, yeah, it's a thing. I would offer the Vanya Milenkovic save in Napoli's clash with Sporting, in which he was essentially going the wrong way, but still managed to swat the ball phenomenally, powerfully away. Just kind of probably went out for a throw-in or something. He really whacked it. Lovely. But anyway, yeah, both great saves. Let's just enjoy them both, eh? Well, indeed.

25:43Jack Lang: But yeah, hell of a save from Raya. And I think Joe Cole made this point on the TNT coverage last night, but there was an awful lot of scepticism when Arsenal signed him because he was taken over from Aaron Ramsdale, Aaron Ramsdale, young English goalkeeper, doing reasonably well. But, you know, Raya, I think now, is among... He's not one of the best goalkeepers in the world, but he's in the group of goalkeepers right below that. He's super consistent, pulls off some extraordinary saves, is excellent with the ball at his feet, extremely consistent. wins Arsenal points in the manner of a goalkeeper in a title-winning team.

26:20Jack Lang: And I think it's to Arsenal's credit that they saw that potential. Because I don't think anyone else was looking at David Reier at that point and thinking, this is a guy who can be a final piece in the jigsaw.

26:33Liam Tharme: There you go. David Reier, very good, not quite as good as some others, but still good enough to maybe win a title. Who would be the ones that you have at the top of the pile? I'm guessing, is there a Thibaut Courtois in there? Yeah, well, Courtois, Donnarumma. Donnarumma, you'd have him in there, yeah? Yeah, I think on the back of last season.

26:48Tom Williams: They're all more specials though, right? Raya's big strength is he's probably 8 out of 10 in everything. He's one of the best in the league in terms of dominating his box. You imagine it works quite well with Arsenal and training, just practising all their ends, swinging corners, and he deals with them just fine. And most other goalkeepers can't. Brentford for so long, he was so good at when they were sat deep and just facing crosses, he could come out and protect them that way. So I think to have all those elements at a really good level probably isn't quite the Donnarumma kind of shot stopper or quite the, yeah, Alisson 1v1s or Edison kind of with the distribution.

27:18Tom Williams: But I think to have all of those at a really high level is really important and sometimes better than having just one pure specialist.

27:24Liam Tharme: Right, because Nuno Mendes is the best full-back in the world, so I'm keen to find out who the best keeper is. Enormous hands as well, David Wright.

27:30Jack Lang: I mean, lots of goalkeepers do, but he has famously, like, basketball player-sized hands. And on his mosaic next to the Emirates, he's kind of posing with his hands like that. and it's just around the corner from me so I see those hands. I don't see the actual hands. It's perspective, Tom. I think it's partly perspective but they're big old hands, I'm telling you. Is it to scale? It looks to scale. I've not measured it. I'll report back.

27:56Liam Tharme: Leave it with me. A lot of people with a lot of love for Udegaard's performance in this game as well.

28:03James Richardson: This is very unscientific but he just looked bouncy. he has been quite bad for quite a while and it's just kind of going through the motions he had that kind of Odegaard at his best just energy to him played a couple of really lovely through balls one of which would have led to a goal if Victor Yorcares had passed square good lord Tom's just shown us a picture

28:27Liam Tharme: I'm going to say perspective is the key word

28:30Tom Williams: are they big or just closer to the screen they are

28:34Jack Lang: I think there's hang on I saw a measurement before okay

28:38Liam Tharme: Tom's going to look at that I'll mention that 22 centimetres I don't know how big that is how big is that the length

28:45Jack Lang: from the tip of his middle finger to the base of his palm estimated to be 22 centimetres this hand size is disproportionate to his height and is roughly 3 centimetres longer and 2.3 centimetres wider than the average male hand making it an advantageous attribute for a goalkeeper

29:01Tom Williams: but do you not think all goalkeepers will have hands like that Probably to an extent. Same way you've got high jumpers. They've all got an eight-foot-long Achilles tendon just because that is what makes you then good at... Is that right? Yeah. Not eight foot, I've exaggerated, but...

29:14Liam Tharme: I don't know. I might fold back and forth. Strange stuff goes on in the body. Lord knows. There you go. Arsenal have West Ham on the weekend. See if they can get past David Rhea's freakishly, freakishly outside digits. There you go. New carousel. We touched on this before. 4-0 winners away at Union San Diego. who'd started the Champions League phase with a big 3-1 win away at PSV Eindhoven so good result and yet another goal from Vultimada although how much was his involvement key to that goal? Well he could have probably moved out the way

29:52Tom Williams: and it'd still have gone in I think I don't want to go textbook good feet for a big guy but I'm still uncertain if he actually flicked it or if he hit the defender It took me a lot of re-watches and I wasn't sure. I think he did. Yeah, because he kind of celebrated, but I couldn't tell if it was enough of a celebration where it was his goal and you didn't kind of see a conversation between him and Tonali where he's like, no, no, you know you get sometimes a striker point, you know it's me, I've touched it kind of thing. I thought there was. He kind of let Tonali celebrate. So yeah, whether it was a hierarchical thing of respecting a more senior player, I don't know.

30:24Tom Williams: But it would be quite funny if you just kind of let someone else think that they've scored the goal and they go, actually, I've got that, mate. But no, neat flick.

30:32Liam Tharme: Like Vulderman, who's been in the news all week, once people picked up on Karl-Heinz Rummenigge's comments that Newcastle was stupid to pay that much money. Not stupid to buy him, but stupid to pay that much money. But when you look at his performances so far, three goals and just four starts for his U-Club, you could make an argument. Of all the Bundesliga goal-scoring signings this summer, he's been the most effective.

30:55Tom Williams: I think a risky comment to the maker, right, because they only really would, you know, if he does perform poorly, I don't think you're ever very much vindicated by that. It's more likely to be a thing that's quite motivating for a club and a player to hear that, that some egg left on face.

31:09Jack Lang: And you can understand Bayern's frustration. I mean, traditionally, it's so hard for them to sign players from their Bundesliga rivals. So, you know, it must be really great to see another one slipping through their fingers.

31:17Liam Tharme: Anthony Gordon had two penalties. Harvey Barnes completed the victory. Among the positives were Anthony Gordon on one side and Elanga on the other. Newcastle fans calling this his best performance yet for the club, which is interesting because they've got his old side turning up at the weekend.

31:35Jack Lang: Well, it was the first time that those three players have lined up from the start. And on paper, that looks like Newcastle's first choice front three. And that angle was brilliant. I mean, just so quick that there's very little you can do against him. I mean, if he wants to beat a fullback, chances are he just will. And it was his cross in towards Volta Marder that paved the way for the opening goal. Gordon scores the two penalties, and I thought Gordon's work rate was exceptional. He wins the ball back at the start of the move that leads to the fourth goal, scored by Harvey Barnes coming off the bench.

32:09Jack Lang: And Newcastle's issue this season so far has been scoring goals. They've been extremely solid. I think they've had, what, three nil-nil draws? And so, defensively, they look pretty solid. It's been an attack that things haven't been clicking. This performance against Union Saint-Germain suggests that things might actually be starting to click.

32:28Liam Tharme: Excellent. In the league, they're currently down in 15th spot, Newcastle United, as they wait for Forrest at the weekend. Forrest, who are in action tonight, as we record Thursday evening in the Europa League, they are hosting Midtjylland. So maybe Ange Postacoglu will have won a game as Forrest's manager by the time they go to St. James'. Anyway, elsewhere in the Champions League, Juve had a 2-2 draw with Villarreal. As we mentioned, Renato Vega with a late equaliser.

32:55James Richardson: Miss of the week by a mile by Jonathan David. Oh, yeah. Oh, poor guy. I've seen that. Poor guy. Far post. The ball's going quite fast. He just chooses the wrong foot to kick it with. It's great.

33:09Liam Tharme: Roswell's Hoyland got a brace as Napoli beat Sporting at the Maradona. And Kevin De Bruyne, who finished their game at the weekend in slightly fractious fashion, arguing with Conte, or at least letting his dissatisfaction be very visible as he left the field after being subbed off by Antonio Conte, the defeat by Milan, responding here with... Well, that first assist was glorious. Now, he gallops 50 yards or so and then slides it through for Rasmus Hoiland. Rasmus Hoiland's now got three goals in five games. Three goals as many as he scored in 35 games for Man United last season.

33:45Tom Williams: Proving the continued point about players leaving Manchester United either getting better or reverting to just how good they were before. The first one is textbook order and the big spaces in transition. But the second goal one is really nice. It's a great ball in a reworked short corner and an in-swimming cross from a slightly deeper angle. But he's pretty brave. He gets right between goalkeeper and centre-back. Proper old-fashioned English No. 9 type header. Get your head between the keeper and the defender. Yeah, really good finish.

34:15Liam Tharme: Excellent. Good result as well for Napoli. Dortmund had a 4-1 win against Athletic Club de Bilbao. Dortmund, who were held to a 4-4 draw by Juventus in their opening game, piling on the goals for the second match in a row in this competition. Connie Chukwameka among the scorers, and Adeyemi looking dangerous, and Dortmund things, basically. Leverkusen weren't so fortunate, finished 1-1 there, clashed with PSV, the Peter Bosch derby, as producer Charlie dubs it. He offers this fun fact. in Leverkusen starting 11 was Tillman in PSV starting 11 were both Till and Mann very nice and the other game listen you're right there was one other match early on Wednesday Carabaig beat Copenhagen 2-0 as we mentioned before right that was match day 2 of your league phase of the Champions League match day 7 of the Premier League awaits this is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson It's an unusual weekend in the Premier League.

35:20Liam Tharme: Starts on the Friday. Four games on the Saturday. And then five on the Sunday. That's thanks to this Europa League and Europa Conference League business. Friday anyway, it's Bournemouth up against, is it Fulham? Oh, no, no. Fulham. Fulham. alright the Cherries will go second if they win that game for a day at least Saturday at lunchtime it's Leeds against Spurs then at 3 o 'clock Man United Sunderland one of those teams is in 5th place the other is in 14th Sunderland in fact made the best start by a newly promoted side for 13 years in the Premier League since Big Sam's

36:05Jack Lang: worst time indeed

36:05Liam Tharme: indeed football heritage right there and the other game at 3 o 'clock is Arsenal West Ham is that right West Ham West Ham ok Arsenal Les Amours

36:18Jack Lang: ah Les Amours they like they like nicknames a lot and they use curious nicknames that have fallen out of fashion in this country for example when was the last time you heard someone refer to Leeds as the Peacocks I'm sorry we get that quite a lot ah les Peacocks quelle victoire pour les Peacocks right what do they call Spurs then

36:36James Richardson: Lily Whites

36:36Jack Lang: no they're just les Spurs ok because you got

36:40Liam Tharme: a Peacock Cockrell Derby Saturday. Yes. Yeah. That is going to be vicious. Arsenal West Ham anyway. Le Amours and Arsenal will go top with a win for a couple of hours at least because at 5.30 current number one is Liverpool will be trying their luck away at Chelsea. Liverpool have lost their last two in all competitions. Chelsea have lost their last two in the Premier League so interesting game that one. Sunday four games taking place at two o 'clock. Wow. Everton Palace, Newcastle Forest, Wolves Brighton and Villa Burnley. hmm then at 4.30 capping the round off Brentford Man City wow quick reminder at the top of the table Liverpool are too clear of Arsenal Palace are a point behind then you've got Spurs, Sunderland and Bournemouth a point behind them and one ahead of Man City down at the other end Burnley West Ham and Wolves are the bottom three with Wolves already four points from safety Man United Newcastle Villa and Forest are all within a defeat of the relegation Plushes, crikey.

37:42Liam Tharme: I wonder what it's going to look like after this weekend when we've got, of course, an international break. I wonder, among the many questions, is what kind of effect Nuno Espirito Santo will have had at West Ham? You've got a point away at Everton after one day's training, now with a week with Liamers. Could they go and do their usual number on the Luguners?

38:07Jack Lang: Yes.

38:08Liam Tharme: I mean, yeah, West Ham in recent years have had a great record against Arsenal. They've won their last two visits to the Emirates. In fact, the Gunners have only lost four of their last 42 matches at home. And two of those were against to West Ham.

38:22Jack Lang: And wasn't there, there was the draw at the end of 2022-23 season that served as one of the many nails in the coffin of Arsenal's title ambitions. So even when they're not beating Arsenal, they're doing them damage. And, you know, we did see in that game at Everton some indications as to, you know, what Nuno is going to bring to West Ham. Fulker straight in. So he likes a big strapping number nine. Callum Wilson out. Fulker in. And on paper, looking at the respective form of the two teams, particularly Everton's home form, you thought, OK, well, this will be a comfortable Everton victory. And, you know, West Ham came out of it with a creditable draw.

39:02Jack Lang: And you would expect that Nuno will tighten them up. I mean, you know, they have been extremely poor since the start of the season. So, yeah, I guess the expectation is that he will make them harder to break down. And as much as they tried to kind of stray from the David Moyes formula in appointing Julian Lopetegui and then Graham Potter, you kind of feel like in the West Ham DNA, that kind of football is probably still present. So perhaps it won't be all that difficult to kind of reconfigure them back to what they were before.

39:34James Richardson: He did something in that Everton game, which I always love when a new manager does this and they come in. Just picked out a player that I never heard of. This may just be me, but Sungutu Magasa, the defensive midfielder. You're straight in there. You're my guy. I think that's such a fun statement of intent. But if you look at the West Ham team, they have so many good players. Like Bowen is in great form. Paquita is a great player. Mateus Fernandes, I thought, was in a really bad Southampton team. He had a good season last season. They have got the players. Some of them were back fit. Some of them were really big.

40:07Tom Williams: Him and Juve down that left side especially. I mean, Juve's like, the quality of his crossing is absolutely fantastic. You think that seems like kind of a nailed-on recipe of good crosser plus big man in the penalty area that thrives off crossers should bring them goals. I think the big issue for them this weekend against Arsenal is West Ham have been utterly abject at defending corners in particular. I mean, it was the second face ball. Fair enough for the Everton opener, But they did leave Michael Keane in, I think, probably close to an acre of space in the box on his own. And obviously, Arsenal are a phenomenal set-piece team.

40:41Tom Williams: So probably the game plan needs to be conceded through corners as possible rather than trying to actually defend them particularly well. But as the guys say, I think that whole attack probably needs to be built more around Bowen than Fulcrog, to be honest. Bowen's kind of versatility. He can score, he can create. He always seems to pop up with goals when they need it as well. And they've just got such a capacity to come alive in a period by Sam. I think you can watch them for the game. They can be poor for 60 minutes, 70 minutes, but will often have a 15, 20-minute spell where they can get something from the game without ever kind of being convincing.

41:10Tom Williams: So there's all the ingredients there, and that's without Thomas Socek in the midfield as well, he's been a key player.

41:16Liam Tharme: A lot of positives there for the Hammers as they travel to Arsenal. It's a delicate weekend, this for the title race. Liverpool, who are two points clear. We talked about this a little bit in Wednesday's show, their trip to Chelsea. not only are they looking to avoid a third defeat in a week Arnislot's side but they'll also be doing it without Alisson one of the top keepers in the world and Ekotike is a doubt too I believe

41:41James Richardson: Yeah he came off early in the week so you'd think so I mean doubtful whether he would be starting anyway I think Arnislot has yet done the Isaac-Eketike double act might be something we'll see in the future But yeah, interesting was Liverpool because probably only 10 days ago, everyone was saying they're not playing their best, but they're still winning. This is such a fantastic sign. And how quickly things can turn around, not just in terms of the injuries, but in terms of the way the attack particularly is clicking. There are a lot of noises about Salah's form, rightly so, I think, whether he and Wirtz can do their individual things while also creating the kind of synergy that Liverpool had last year.

42:29Liam Tharme: And Wirtz's position or presence in the team, what it means in terms of players who aren't there and the lack of consistency in midfield. As a result, Chelsea, though, bare bones at the back. Trevor Chalabert suspended for this game, so probably going to see some of those unfamiliar names that you like so much, Jack Lang. lining up

42:50James Richardson: yeah your Josh chimpongs get in there

42:53Jack Lang: your Jorahatos indeed it is ironic given that Enzo Mureska spent a significant proportion of the summer politely and perhaps not so politely asking the club to sign a new centre-back for him and he was told no you've got enough and now that is really being tested because they're almost all injured and Chelsea are not

43:11Liam Tharme: looking very good 5.30 on Saturday those two teams face off City meanwhile who are currently a ways back in seventh spot, fully five points behind. Liverpool are at Brentford, who, as I mentioned, did for Man United last weekend, have that great record at home, and have an Igor Thiago, who's in red-hot form, five goals this season in all competitions, not a player that was on a lot of people's radar. Jack, were you kind of expecting big things from him? All I'd seen of him was the form he had in Belgium with Brugge,

43:47James Richardson: because he was not someone who was particularly famous in Brazil. Then went to Ludogretz, which is probably my now Shakhtar, slightly off radar, my favorite Brazilian outpost in Eastern Europe. Always two or three. Actually, I looked at their lineup in the Europa League last week and I think all of their attackers were Brazilian, which they had kind of a deeply kind of standard domestic defense and then just like wild card attackers all wearing like number 99 jersey. Fantastic stuff. Don't watch much Ludogratz though, I have to say. So he was not on my radar at that point. There's a kind of strain of Brazilian strikers that the Premier League has been quite interested in in the last few years.

44:31James Richardson: I think Joe Ellington, obviously a different player now, was kind of in that mould. You're kind of your muscle bound guys. There was that guy who played for Aston Villa very briefly, Wesley, before getting a bad injury. He was a similar player. Sorry, go on. I don't get it. Sorry.

44:49Liam Tharme: If you know, you know.

44:50James Richardson: Okay, I don't know. So, yeah, kind of... I mean, his goal was against Manchester United. I kind of think he sliced the first one. He was a little bit lucky with it. And the second one kind of hit him. So I'm not getting super excited yet. Come on.

45:04Liam Tharme: What I'm getting excited about is the fact that Ludigrette are facing Real Betis this evening.

45:10James Richardson: Green on green. Two rare green kits.

45:12Liam Tharme: Crikey.

45:13James Richardson: I'm sure one of them will wear an away kit.

45:15Liam Tharme: maybe anyway Igor Thiago though no longer of that Parish taking on Man City that's Sunday 4.30 and anybody want to predict City dropping points here? I mean City haven't been

45:29Jack Lang: brilliant this season in the league and as we say almost every time we talk about City there's this temptation to think that you know things have clicked and they're back but I think there is still a vulnerability there you know they showed against Burnley that they're still capable of scoring lots of goals and blowing teams away. Shored against Monaco, they're capable of conceding them. Well, indeed. Indeed. And like you say, Brentford, decent home form, a bit of a free hit for them. City, obviously, favourites. But I think the fact that Brentford have got these decent home results under their belts, that Igor Thiago is now finding his feet, they'll fancy their chances.

46:07Liam Tharme: Is Keith Andrews, Liam, not sure if you've been able to look at this, Is he essentially just rolling out the same kind of Thomas Frank tactics as before? Has he made any significant changes?

46:18Tom Williams: I think part of the shape is the same kind of a base 4-3-3. They've made some kind of changes at full-back. They've obviously had transfers and you can't copy and paste the same formula because they've lost kind of key forwards. So I think it's about reworking and re-engineering kind of the forward line. They've got Rico Henry now coming back into things, which is really big. He'd been out for an awfully long time. I think with him and Michael Keode, a right-back, who has got a, I think he's a really well-rounded full-backer play, win-backer at times. Humongous long throw, like can absolutely launch the ball.

46:49Tom Williams: We're very much in an era of long throws in the Premier League now, but sometimes from guys that can throw it okay-ish and they're kind of gambling on second balls. This guy, like a javelin.

46:59Liam Tharme: It's interesting to see the long throws in the Champions League midweek. Did you see Weston McKinney lobbing them in for Juventus? He's done that for a while.

47:06Tom Williams: I watched him a few years ago for the US, and for a small guy, he's got a bit of power about him.

47:11Liam Tharme: And he has a slightly different approach because he very much favours his right arm, almost like a quarterback.

47:16Jack Lang: Vinnie Jones used to do that. Did he? When he was on long throw duty for Wimbledon, he would basically have his throwing hand behind the ball and the left hand would kind of like accompany it. And it looked a little bit like an illegal action, but who's going to tell Vinnie Jones that he's throwing it in wrong? Not me. Absolutely.

47:33Liam Tharme: Brentford very much the kings of the long throw. in the world's number one division for long throw football, Premier League. Good, we've got more exciting Premier League talk in our final part, which is literally next.

48:02Liam Tharme: It's the 2nd of October, everybody. Do you know what today is the anniversary of? Today is the anniversary of, in many things I imagine, but red and yellow cards being introduced to the Football League. Do you know when, which year they first made their appearance?

48:22Liam Tharme: 70s? What, Jack? You're absolutely spot on 1976. I would have thought it was ages ago. Well, I mean, I suppose 76 is ages ago, but even more ages ago than that.

48:35Jack Lang: And of course red cards were circular back in the day so you could tell the difference on TV amongst other reasons. But I think that was a big one.

48:44Tom Williams: So they could find the card more easily they'd tell by the shape rather than... So you just put them in different pockets. Probably, yeah.

48:50Jack Lang: And you could also show the red card and then just frisbee it at the player as they walked off the pitch as referees often did. Like serving as summons.

48:59Liam Tharme: And if it touched you, you were off but if you could avoid it... Anyway, the system of two fouls involving expulsion had, of course, existed before, but there hadn't been a physical demonstration of the kind of status of where you were. Old Paul Durkin. I don't know, Liam. You're off, lad. Just point. Off. You're off.

49:20James Richardson: Lad. They always said lad. Okay. Trap.

49:23Liam Tharme: First player to be shown, Rick, was Blackburn's David Wagstaff. The second, Jack, scare me. Do you know who the second player ever to be shown a red card in the English football first division was?

49:36James Richardson: No idea. Mark Lawrenson.

49:38Liam Tharme: Football's George Best.

49:40James Richardson: Second best.

49:42Liam Tharme: Well, in that case, yeah. Remember when orange cards were going to be a thing? This was a couple of seasons ago. Were they trialled in youth football? Tactical fouls specifically as well, I think. Simbin stuff as well. Simbin, yeah.

49:55Tom Williams: Interesting concepts.

49:57Liam Tharme: Yeah. How do you feel about green cards then? because they are currently a thing. Like a visa? Yeah, topically enough, football green cards currently being used at the under-20 World Cup in Chile. They are, though, not a disciplinary thing so much as an opportunity for the coaches. They're a bit like, you won't recall, it's a knockout, Je sens frontier, but when the teams will play their joker, the coaches can pull out their green card and hopefully brandish it at the referee when they want to challenge the referee's decision. They can do it twice a match. So I guess they get two of them. And then the referee will review.

50:34Liam Tharme: This is at the Under-20 World Cup in Chile. The referee will then review with the assistance, not a VAR, but FSV, Football Video Support, a rival, a rival organisation looking to muscle in.

50:46Tom Williams: That's how they always should have used, I think, VAR on the appeal style basis. Absolutely.

50:50Jack Lang: And it's instead of VAR. Yes. So this is the only video refereeing that takes place at this tournament. So you can only summon the VAR slash FSV with the green card, which I think is good. And I'm encouraged that FIFA are trialling this because I think it reflects the fact that there is still dissatisfaction about the way that VAR is used and that perhaps it might one day be put in the bin where it belongs.

51:22James Richardson: I'm really excited about this FSV. What's it offering? Like, was VAR Betamax this whole time? Maybe so.

51:29Jack Lang: It's not even FSV, it's FVS. I'm reading the notes wrong.

51:32Tom Williams: FSV is very purpose-leagal. Football video support, FVS.

51:37Liam Tharme: They've taken this from ice hockey, of course, where coaches can have a coach's challenge. But the neat thing there is that if their challenge is not successful... They can punch them. Their team then incurs a minor penalty, so they have to go a player down. If you appeal a referee's decision...

51:52Tom Williams: Can you imagine the carnage of this in the Premier League, can't you? And then who do you... Does the referee pick who goes off? Maybe you just get a yellow card against one of your players.

52:01Jack Lang: I imagine the theatricality as well of like 95th minute, Jose Mourinho getting off the bench. What is he doing? He's got the green card in his hand. He's seen something. Obviously not Mourinho because he's not in the Premier League anymore.

52:15Liam Tharme: Not right now, but...

52:17Jack Lang: The kind of person you think would enjoy having a green card.

52:19Liam Tharme: Might be some opportunities coming up in the Premier League soon. we've got one or two teams in trouble we've got an international break coming up and we all know do we? actually I mean to what extent are international breaks percentage wise more filled with managerial departures?

52:36Tom Williams: That is a great question I paid you and Duncan Alexander for this one that man will have that on a spreadsheet somewhere I think it's compounded this season by I mean Sunderland especially but I guess less so Burnley but collectively the promoted teams started fairly well and obviously you then And if you've not got kind of the, it feels like no gimmies of who might go down this season, you've got more established Premier League teams, West Ham Wolves in real trouble. That just naturally, I think, applies more pressure that in seasons gone by, they might have started as badly as this year, but if teams are doing worse than them, then it wouldn't kind of feel the same.

53:07Tom Williams: It's always relative. And I think that is probably a healthy thing for the league in general, those promoted teams doing well, but bad news for any managers at struggling teams is they are going to be under pressure.

53:17Liam Tharme: In unrelated news, Manchester United are facing Sunderland this Saturday at 3 o 'clock. It's Ruben Amarim's 50th game in charge. And there are those saying, is it going to be 50 and out? Because it's been that bad so far. We don't need to run through the litany of failure that they've had there. But Sunderland, let's talk instead about them. Best start by a newly promoted side, Tom, as you were confirming since Big Sam's West Ham 13 years ago. So is Reggie Labrice, is he a big talking point for your matches of the day?

53:52Jack Lang: Yeah, he is. We've had him, we've interviewed him a couple of times. We've filmed a couple of things in Sunderland. Obviously a lot of French and Francophone players in the changing room. So yeah, lots of interest. And it's been a while since there was a French coach in the Premier League kind of doing great things and earning plaudit. So there's a lot of interest in what he's doing. How do you pronounce the name? there's this conjecture about this in France as well because I've heard Le Brice and Le Brie but I've heard Le Brice more than Le Brie

54:24Tom Williams: I didn't say Le Brice, it's very Breton right good knowledge

54:29Liam Tharme: last three goals that Sunderland have scored have all been assisted by Granit Xhaka how do you pronounce that? oh no I'll stop but anyway Sunderland are such a fantastic story this season and we'll see if it continues So Man Utd, nobody wants to see somebody lose their position. But after all the indignities they've suffered, getting beaten at home by Sunderland.

54:54James Richardson: It would wrap things up, wouldn't it? I mean, the thing with Amarim, his 50th game, it brings to mind the Shane Warne line on Monty Panassar. He hasn't played. Amarim hasn't managed 50 games. He's managed the same game 50 times. and that applies more here than it probably did to Monty Panesar because just, yeah, I mean, I was quite positive on Amarim early doors and I think probably a feeling of goodwill has lasted longer than it has for some people. But yeah, it's got to the point now at which it's actually hard to imagine him clawing this back. and I think that happens to every manager eventually.

55:41James Richardson: You look at him and you don't see...

55:44Liam Tharme: I see as opposed to the normal paradigm where you've got a manager fighting to save his job and a club who are weighing up their options. With him, it seems more like a manager who's fighting desperately to leave and a club that's determined to keep him rather than admit they got it wrong.

55:56James Richardson: Yeah, his interviews, I think there's a fine line between honesty and defeatism because the manager's job is a performative job whether you like it or not. you are representing yourself to the public. When your team is taking a penalty,

56:09Liam Tharme: to stare at the floor as though disaster is about to happen is surely not uninspiring.

56:15Tom Williams: He was way too honest, way too early, about how poor and not very good United were. There's an extent to which it's good to be honest and not do the shtick of this is a massive football club, we deserve or ought to be top four or title chasing and we're just not there because there's some forces at play. but I think it's a justice to be so defeatist about it and I think it seems to struggle to kind of get you out of that pit. If there's one green shoot, they've been good going forward in terms of chance creation this season. The bad problem is they've been very, very wasteful, the most wasteful team in the league.

56:51Tom Williams: In terms of XG, they're actually the top side. Obviously, part of that is because they end up in quite a few losing game states as well which is an even bigger problem and have to chase games and therefore make chances but the system as far as it goes to creating opportunities is working, but obviously it's an equally big problem that players aren't putting that away. Whether that's because it's individuals being wasteful, good goalkeeping, a mix of other things, that is just a bigger problem, I think, and needs to be resolved.

57:17Liam Tharme: Maybe it'll all come good for them this weekend and then they'll have a nice international break to really start building something. Elsewhere in the Premier League this weekend, you've got Leeds against Spurs. Spurs are with that 2-2 draw away against Bodo Glimt on Tuesday. Bournemouth taking on Fulham on Friday night. Bournemouth enjoying their best ever start to a top flight season. Fulham, did you know they've committed the most fouls in the Premier League this season? Dirty Fulham. Hmm. Friday night.

57:47Jack Lang: Very off-brand, the idea of Fulham as a load of hatchet men.

57:51Liam Tharme: Yeah. Saka Lukic.

57:53Jack Lang: They've got a few in there, haven't they?

57:55Liam Tharme: Yeah. I think that's a good part of their style. You know when you've been in a game against Fulham. Four games at two o 'clock on Sunday. Which one to watch, though? Options are Aston Villa against Burnley. Everton Palace, strong contender, that one. Newcastle, Nottingham Forest is surely going to be highly entertaining. And then there's also Wolves against Brighton. Lots of those clubs involved in Thursday night. Football Forest hosting Midtjylland. Palace are away in Lubin taking on Dynamo Kiev in the Conference League. And Villa are at home. No, they're in Rotterdam against Feyenoord Thursday night in the Europa League.

58:32Liam Tharme: Crikey. Which one of those is your pick, Jack? Those four games?

58:38James Richardson: I would probably have to go for Newcastle Forest. Would you? Yeah.

58:43Liam Tharme: I'm going Everton Crystal Palace because Palace are great and it's a lovely new stadium. Lovely. Liam? Wolves Brighton. Why? Because I'm a Brighton fan.

58:53Tom Williams: Yeah, that makes sense.

58:55Liam Tharme: I'll go after Villa Burnley then. Very good. What do you make of Brighton's start to the season, Liam?

59:01Tom Williams: Good. Good enough. they've got a really good capacity that they've shown since the start of last season to play up against bigger clubs to stage these really impressive comeback wins, I think Fabian Hurtster has had some justified criticism of his tactics and definitely playing lower half or position, but his subs I think there's been eight times now that he's brought on subs and two subs have combined for a goal, so one sub has assisted another, he's been really good at changing the game using his subs and kind of changing tactics as well. We saw that at Chelsea where he made some changes, brought on Danny Welbeck for Georgina Ruter and then moved Jan Kouba Minter from the right to the left.

59:39Tom Williams: Minter then provided an assist for Danny Welbeck with a really good cross. So there's definitely work to be done. I think there's some questions still at centre-back and kind of how they deal with teams trying to play behind them. But I think generally speaking, they've adapted really well to kind of losing Jean-Petro and having to re-event once more.

59:55Liam Tharme: Excellent. Brighton currently lying 10th in the Premier League, but it's early doors, of course. Palace doing so very, very well. And by the time you hear this, or certainly by the time they travel to Everton, could well be on a 19-game unbeaten streak, depending on what happens against Dynamo Kiev. Everton no wins in four now. They did do the double over the Eagles last season, but that was then. They won't have any Dewsbury Hall in this game, though, on account of him picking up those five yellow cards. Tom, you were eager to tell us about Villa Burnley. Away you go.

1:00:29Jack Lang: Yes, Villa showing signs that they might be turning a corner. Very scratchy win against Bologna in Europa League. Then went behind at home to Fulham and you thought, OK, well, here we go again. But then turned it around to win. So that's two wins on the spin. We'll see how they get on against Rotterdam tonight. But Ollie Watkins has finally got off the mark. so for the first sign this season a little bit of momentum and we'll see whether that withstands the visit of Burnley

1:00:57Liam Tharme: Well I'm pumped now Sunday two o 'clock and well you know, a bit later on on Sunday we'll get together and discuss what it all means with our Totally Football Show which as ever will have its recording live streamed on YouTube from around about 7.15, 7.30ish but that wraps it up for today's show so many many thanks to Liam to Jack to Tom and to producer Charlie and you listener do hope you have a great weekend there's no Totally Extra this time around because we did it yesterday on the Tuesday night Champions League games but there will be one next week oh yeah from all of us here it's goodbye

1:01:49Tom Williams: podcast just like this one including the athletic fc and our dedicated club podcasts search for the athletic on apple spotify and all the usual places we're also at the totally football show on insta and at the totally show on youtube the totally football show is an athletic media company production

1:02:12James Richardson: the athletic fc