PSG thrash Real Madrid to set up final with Chelsea

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1:36The Athletic FC Podcast Network.

1:46Totally Football Show. Today, women's Euros. Hampton caught the Dutch out. Lauren did the rest as England reign again against the Dutch. Gianni's Club World Cup. Chelsea beat Fluminense. PSG are Bluminense. We talk transfers. The Noni Maruecki knows the Lyon appeal and what it means for Palace. And we pick Coxie V's story in the Intertotally. It's the Totally Football Show.

2:19Well, it's Thursday the 10th of July. Thank you so much for joining us. On today's show, we've got Tom Williams, James Horncastle and Nathalie Jedra. Woo! Woo! Hello. Hello indeed. Happy Valentine's Day. Somewhere out there. You know what? To paraphrase Luca Carboni, it's either Valentine's Day every day or it's never Valentine's Day. You know what? It was actually Giavonotti who said that. It was him and Carboni. Do you remember that song? No. O è Natale tutti i giorni, o non è Natale mai. Okay, so Christmas, not Valentine's Day. Well, yeah, I said paraphrase. But I thought it was a really nice thing.

2:57Loosely. You either live the spirit of Christmas, the values of Christmas every day, or you doing it once a year is a sham.

3:05James Horncastle: Yeah, fair. Just a little bit of a thought-provoking opening for you there, listener. Stolen from Charles Dickens, that, no? Oh, is it? Well, what did he say? Well, a Christmas carol, isn't it? When did he say that in Christmas carols? Well, maybe I'm confusing this with The Muppet Christmas carol, the greatest Christmas film of all time. Yeah, that is true. It is. Where one of the songs is Make It Last All Year. Oh, there you go. Wow, I can't believe I've remembered that. Like Christmas pudding and the sprouts. Yeah. And it's July. And it's July. And it's a heat wave. So this chat could not be more opposite.

3:43In one of the hemispheres. I'm sure it's always Christmas. For me too. Yes, yes. I love Christmas. Okay. Yeah, I'm very into the Christmas talk.

3:51James Horncastle: Merry Christmas, listeners. So, as you say, July, Tom, 10th of July. Natalie, welcome back, by the way. You've been in Brazil. Oh, thank you. Yes, I have. Leaving the Club World Cup fever in the flesh. Are you being ironic? No, no. People in Brazil are very much into the Club World Cup. But not anymore as of Tuesday? No, no, no. Still into it. Definitely, yes. No, Brazilians, they do watch a lot of European football. So they will definitely tune in for the final. Excellent. Tom, you're working on a paperback update for Vava Vum. Is that inspired by PSG's redefining of the football team as a machine of excellence?

4:37Yes, yes. I'm not sure whether this paperback would be coming out or whether my publishers would have been so quick to confirm that it would be coming out had it not been for PSG. So, yeah, that will be hitting the shelves in April, I think. Oh, April 2026. April 2026. So round about the same time that your book will be out, James. oh it's the blur oasis of our time wow is it is it i mean i think it's like you know i just say it's more like the blur against the stone roses with their second album yeah if you ran in the 90s and then into the noughties you'll know what i mean yeah anyway i did at least meet the subject Yeah, no, you met Roberto Baggio, and if you haven't read the lovely piece that resulted from this union of two of the greats of modern Italian football history, then I urge you to seek it out on The Athletic, because as an appetite wetter for the upcoming tome, I'd say it does a pretty splendid job.

5:44James Horncastle: The service in that restaurant is terrible. Why? For the appetite wetting. Oh, I see. Yeah, metaphorically. Like, where is the starter? Where is the main course? The amuse-bouche, though, pretty nice. Tuesday at the Club World Cup, listener. Side times for Fluminense fans and Nicolas Jackson. Chelsea new boy Jean-Pédro scored a brilliant brace. Knock his boyhood club. Fluminense out. Chelsea goes through to the final. That's where the good news ends, though, because they'll be facing Paris Saint-Germain there. PSG put on another display Wednesday against Real Madrid, 4-0. It was all over inside the first nine minutes.

6:23Meanwhile, at the Euros, England bounced back from Saturday's defeat to France with a 4-0 hammering of Netherlands. England now need a win over Wales on Sunday to qualify. France, who themselves beat Wales 4-1 on Wednesday, still need a point on Sunday to qualify when they face Netherlands. Germany and Sweden, meantime, have joined Spain and Norway in the last eight. Where are we going to begin? At the MetLife in New Jersey. This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC Podcast Network.

7:19Paris Saint-Germain, a monstre. Yes, this team is a machine. This team is a steamroller. A high voltage team move. Paris Saint-Germain are monstrous. I think you might have mentioned Hakimi, the Moroccan, as well at some point.

7:42James Horncastle: I watched this game with a Parisian who is not our Parisian friend. He's my neighbour. And he was even more arrogant than our Parisian friend. Take a second to digest. In that whenever Mbappé got the ball, he called him Pachichi. Oh, yeah. Like in a diminishing, mocking way. Like, you know, yeah, you're Pachichi. We're champions of Europe. Oh, wow. Well done. Interesting that the commentator goes big on the machine thing because that was Luis Enrique's line to Mbappé when he put him in front of that large video screen and said, Tibidabo, all this could be yours if you would like to do some work.

8:21And Mbappé said, no, I'll head off to Madrid and then sue you for unpaid wages. And Wednesday night they met without the consequence. James, you called this game the equivalent of Real Madrid abandoning the Ballon d 'Or ceremony. What did you mean? Or were you just being glib?

8:38James Horncastle: I was being glib, yeah, no. Look, from my perspective, it makes what happened in the Champions League final look normal. That, you know, everyone was talking about how old Inter were and just they ran into this PSG team who have been doing this to Atletico Madrid 4-0. Do you think Inter Milan fans feel better now after the Madrid thing? The thing is, I think people will remember that game and that scoreline more than they will probably this semifinal. But 4-0 against Atletico, They score when they're down to nine men against Bayern Munich. And then they could have been 2-0 up even before they scored the opening goal yesterday.

9:20James Horncastle: Courtois was amazing. So six weeks beating Inter Milan, Atletico Madrid, Bayern Munich and Real Madrid. Aggregate score of 15 goals, four and zero against those clubs. This is the best team we've seen since when? I mean, Jamie Carragher compared them to Pep's Barca, didn't he? You start with that. Or losing Vicky's Barca? I mean, we shouldn't forget how good peak Manchester City were. But were they? They didn't do this to the elite of European football, but they did hit an extremely high, very sustained level. But yeah, I can't think of many teams that have done this to the European elite. And I think that's why the Club World Cup has been useful to PSG in terms of sort of embellishing their nascent legend.

10:15Because, OK, what they did in the Champions League was incredible. But you could go back and look at who they beat in the knockout rounds. And, OK, they beat Liverpool. They thrashed Inter in the final. But the other teams, they knocked out Brest, Aston Villa, Arsenal. You know, big clubs, Arsenal in particular, but not European royalty. Whereas since the start of the Club World Cup, they've put four goals past both Madrid clubs. They've beaten a very good Bayern Munich team 2-0, despite being reduced to nine men towards the end of the game. And they are now strong favourites to win the thing.

10:46And I think for a team that has been seeking legitimacy for so long, the fact that they're not only doing so well at the Club World Cup, but beating the teams that they're beating in the manner that they're beating them is just a kind of extra proof of what an exceptional team they are. It was 3-0 after, I think, what, 27 minutes, was it? Yeah, and I reckon it could have been 5, 6, 7

11:08James Horncastle: if they weren't playing in 90-degree heat. And they didn't have a final coming up straight after, for which they took off most of the star players. And maybe people need to give Botafogo a call. Because there was a clear game plan. And this is actually the question that I don't know. Do you need to just defend against PSG? Because that's what Botafogo did. They didn't face PSG's A team. He'd rested the entire midfield. Yes, yes, yes, which is key. But is it what it takes to beat PSG? But we've seen pro clubs try and do that. Atletico tried to do that. Inter tried to do that. And you just end up getting battered.

11:51And the bad news for the rest of Europe is that it's a very young team. So they're just going to mature. That said, in terms of tactical approach to facing Paris Saint-Germain, was Xavi Lonzo a bit of a tip with that starting XI? I mean, you could kind of see it coming. As soon as you saw the starting XI, like a midfield of Chouameni with Bellingham and Ardegula either side. And then three forwards, you know, two of whom don't really defend very much at all against this PSG. like you know and then one of your back four is not even he's a largely attacking midfielder in Valverde no? Yeah and then Asensio who's you know sort of Real Madrid career just seems to get worse with every single game that he plays I mean obviously it was unfortunate for Madrid that they were missing key players I think with so were Paris Saint-Germain no but I think no PSG weren't missing okay apart from Paco but they were full strength yeah you don't have Carvajal you don't have Militão you don't have Camavinga Hendrik Mendy Alaba Mineta came on and looked good when he, well, looked better.

12:54He almost scored, but he's a centre-back.

12:57James Horncastle: But I think Madrid could have had their best XI now and they would have still got beaten. Xavi Alonso, to use your phrase, would have still been made to look like a tit. Because this is what Paris Saint-Germain did. It was a question. What impressed me, especially with the two goals, is that we saw, we have these young players starting for Madrid yesterday and we saw players, experienced players like Asensio, like Rudiger making mistakes that lead to the first two goals. And then the third goal was just a PSG textbook. Just look at the dictionary, how a PSG goal is supposed to look like and it's the third goal, it's the Fabian-Cluiz goal.

13:36It was amazing. That was the Hakimi run. Yes. It was the first time though. It was a great goal. No, no, no. I'm nitpicking. But watching the build up to that goal, because I think there were three one-touch passes which lead up to Hakimi's assist. If Fabian Ruiz hits that first time top bins, that becomes one of the great team goals of all time. Whereas I think the way he finished it means that it's not quite. I mean, I'm splitting hairs here. But the East East in me was like, please hit it first time and he didn't. And I threw a remote control at the TV and stormed out. You've been spoiled by PSG.

14:15James Horncastle: I mean, yeah, this is where we are. But Natalie mentioned mistakes. Like, they keep forcing these mistakes. It's like the thing in the first 10 minutes against Inter, Di Marco just gets completely savaged. And, like, the way they press the goalkeeper, and also whenever teams attack them, the guy who's on the edge of his own penalty area, sweeping up, nicking the ball back, it's always like Vitinha. Or, like, even in the Inter game, again, one of the goals is Paco keeping the ball in play. It was a lost cause and they go up the other end and score. The way this team works without the ball, Madrid will never get to that level.

14:59It was Dembele's pressure, Dembele coming back into the starting line for this game. It was his pressure which led to the first two goals, which Natalie, as you say, both came from turnovers from pretty egregious Real Madrid mistakes. Given all of that, what do you think Enzo Mareska is cooking up for Sunday's final? You know what I'm interested in? OK, I think we all agree that PSG is the huge favourite for this match. But the midfields, because if Chelsea has a real strong part of the team, it's the midfielders. And PSG is ridiculous. So I'm very interested to see how the game is going to play out there.

15:38Is there some suggestion that Moises Caicedo, who went off in their semifinal, that he might not be available for Sunday's game? Yeah, which would be a huge blow because we've seen how much of a difference he makes in the way that midfield is balanced. But still, you have Enzo Fernandes. When you have the partnership, the partnership is really good, Caicedo and Enzo. But still, I'm very interested. I hope Caicedo plays because I think that's really going to raise the stakes for this game. And Fernandes against Fuminense, an absolute masterclass in how to commit fouls all over the pitch and not get booked.

16:18You know, in that very South American, that specifically very Argentinian way of just kind of shithousing your way through a game and somehow managing to stay on the right side of the referee. Yeah, don't even need the whole continent. Let's name names. I've got a Brazilian sitting literally right next to me. I will immediately soften that. If you would have looked that up in a dictionary, would that not be a Spanish player you discover? Rodri? I don't think, I mean... I think it's a different type of... Yeah, it's more, there's more of a cynical edge to Argentinian. It's called cachimba in Portuguese, yes.

16:56Cachimba is like when they're being smart and provocative. Yes, definitely. Okay, and what does that mean, cachimba? Cachimba. Cachimba. Yes, yes. It happens a lot. We have a whole tournament based on Cachimba. It's called Libertadores. And players, they're just being smart and provocative. It's all part of the game. This is why us Brazilians, we're very much used to it. There's a word as well, Melandragem. Melandragem is very Brazilian. And that's a similar kind of thing, right? Yes, sort of. Like street smarts. Yes, street smart. Not always a positive thing. I think Cachimba, you can get away with it more.

17:31yeah excellent well it was a Brazilian it was the difference beyond Enzo Fernandes' performance for Chelsea against Fluminense Jean-Pedro bought into the side bought during the tournament and then inserted into the side in a slightly incongruous fashion it felt a bit weird

17:52James Horncastle: no? it felt very weird it felt like a throwback to like what happened in you know the 70s and 80s where you could have like a kind of November correction market, basically sign someone. Maybe we should just have the transfer window open all year round. All year round. Love that. So, Brazilians are vibing for that. Of course not. What a terrible idea for us. The irony and the narrative has been a lot about the Brazilian clubs and how they did well in the club world cup, exceeded expectations. And when I see exceeded expectations from ourselves as well, We weren't expecting a Brazilian team to reach the semifinals, for example.

18:33But the irony of having a Brazilian stopping a Brazilian team to get to the final is just like we have this momentum of, OK, we have this underdog complex. So we need European validation. So we have this momentum of, OK, we're not so bad. See, we can compete with big European teams. And then you have the irony of a guy who grew up at Fluminense, who was formed and was supposed to be playing for a Brazilian team if there wasn't so many things wrong around the Brazilian football system. And he's the decisive factor to remind us that we have this problem that we cannot fix. We have a lot of talent and we're always exporting this talent and we can make the most out of using this talent in the club level.

19:21So, yeah, very ironic. Jack Lang was commenting on the success of Brazilian clubs here and pointing to the recent dominance of the Libertadores and saying that actually Brazilian football these days is relatively well run. Yes, yes. It changed a lot. So it is more professional. You have more clubs that are closer to the European model that have owners and companies investing on them. If you look at the four clubs, you have Botafogo, who has a SAF, which is how they call it when someone comes and buys the club. And you have Flamingo and Palmeiras who have long-term projects of just organizing the club from the ground.

19:58Flamingo used to be synonymous of complete chaos in terms of managing a club. And now they're very organized. And Palmeiras as well. It's been coming for a few years. So it's been a whole process. A lot of things changed. Plus, they made really smart signings around South America. you know, other South American countries. But there are still problems with the calendar and the distances, which is something that we cannot sort, and the amount of games and the quality of the pitches.

20:27James Horncastle: They play fewer games than Chelsea. You know, we've been talking about it since round one. So I'm surprised Enzo Maresca didn't know this. Did you see this, James? This is so good. Like, it was the pre-match press conference and Maresca was going on and on and on about how many games Chelsea have played this season. And he said to a Brazilian journalist, like, how many of you guys played? 72. 72. That's more games. Yes, that is more games than Chelsea's 63. Nothing. He just went... He just had to own it. Yeah. It's so good. Yeah, but it was good because in the old format for Brazilian teams, you only face the team who won the Champions League.

21:13And now we see that Brazilian teams, and it's not all Brazilian teams, but there are Brazilian teams who can compete with, you know, Borussia Dortmund and Inter Milan and, you know, other teams. And Inter Milan is like a Champions League finalist, but, you know. And Chelsea, because, you know, they lost to Flamengo. Yes, they lost to Flamengo. It was only when they brought in Gio Pedro that, I don't know that they would have won that game without those two amazing strikes. We did ask, what does Gio Pedro bring to this team they didn't already have? Boom, there's your answer. Yes, and you have foreign managers managing in Brazil, but also you have Felipe Luiz, who is managing Flamengo now, and he has this vast experience as a footballer in Europe.

21:50So he's importing these ideas. So things are looking up in the club level, because we're used to seeing Brazil only in the international level. But it was good for our self-esteem, definitely, and people were very invested in the Club World Cup, very. It's nice that you take that from this tournament. We'll talk about the national team a little bit later on. Chelsea, even if they don't win on a Sunday, do they come out of this as winners as well? Because they emerge. Maresco emerges with them looking like a proper side. Yeah, when we had this debate, didn't we, after the Conference League final, Chelsea have had the most peculiar season.

22:26A lot of uncertainty at the start of the season. New manager coming in, you know, and the constant turnover of players. Briefly thought they were going to challenge Liverpool for the title. then the wheels fell off spectacularly and they produced some absolutely dreadful performances in the Premier League but they end up qualifying for the Champions League winning the Conference League getting into the Club World Cup final so this is without doubt their best season I think since 2021 when they won the Champions League and it means they go into next season despite all the noise around the transfers and all the criticism with a sense of a project that is moving in the right direction Excellent And João Pedro, I think, is a really smart signing, not only from the technical perspective, because, you know, he's a good player, he's a dribbler, he has Premier League experience, but also like his attitude.

23:15You always see him trying things, even when he was at Brighton, when Brighton was playing against the Big Six. He was always going for the one on ones and he was always shouting to players. I think Chelsea can really benefit from that, especially being such a young team. And I know under Roberto Giserbi, he really developed this side. Giserbi would challenge him. I remember chatting to João Pedro and him telling me that he would really challenge him on that. And they would argue and they would have these arguments. And in the end, he would see how beneficial it was. He got his first call up for the national team, for the Brazilian national team, and he gave Giuseppe his shirt.

23:56Yes, as a thank you. So I think in terms of his personality, he really developed in the past few years. And technically, we can see his versatility, playing as a 10, playing as a 9 and everything he can offer up front. So Chelsea did well there. These Italian coaches just, you know, shaping Brazilian football. So, so true. So, so true. All right, that's the situation with the Club World Cup. Chelsea take on Paris Saint-Germain on Sunday evening at the MetLife. Next up, let's get on to the women's Euros.

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27:01This is the Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. The Athletic is the only place you can read articles by Daniel Taylor, Amy Lawrence, Phil Hay, James Pearce, Olly Kay and the very best football writers around. Whoa. Russo Beigle, that was a little shove. Russo keeps her feet. Options. Here's Lauren James. James!

27:29Wednesday at the Women's Euros, it was go big or go home for England, as they faced the Netherlands. They opted very much for the former, smashing the Dutch 4-0. Adrian Clarke on Tuesday was saying that Viergemann's sides always bounce back for a defeat. Boy, he was borne out by this result. He did also say that she'd got her midfield totally wrong. And look, against the Dutch, she stuck with her 11. them, Lauren James in particular, and look what happened, magnificent stuff. Anyway, with the Lionesses and their manager responding to criticism and that defeat against France in the best of fashions, how are things looking now?

28:05Charlotte Harper joins us from Switzerland. Charlotte, what a lovely backdrop. Where are you? I am in Zurich in the industrial quarter, which sounds very industrial, but it's not far from the river where you can go and jump in and have a swim. Sun's shining. Sun is shining and you're surrounded by flowers and nice things. And I have to say, the prospect's pretty good for England as well after Wednesday night's thumping performance against the Dutch. Lots of indication we were just mentioning for England and their manager. She'd made one change to the much-criticised line-up that had lost to France at the weekend.

28:44But it couldn't have gone better for her, starting with Lauren James' performance. Lauren James' opening goal was the breakthrough that England needed. Just the way that she shifted the ball onto her left foot, two touches and bang, it was a firecracker. And England consolidated on that, then really got into their rhythm. The Netherlands didn't really put them under any pressure. They had a lot of time and space. But finally, England actually put the game to bed and put four past. an opponent which we haven't seen that fluidity for quite some time from England. And it was a great performance from the woman that Serena chose as her keeper, Hannah Hampton as well, that pass to set up the opening goal.

29:31I spoke to some coaches and teammates who have worked with Hannah Hampton and they just said they have never seen distribution like that from a goalkeeper. She used to play outfield for Villarreal as a youngster and that technique is superb. It's ingrained in her. It's part of her natural talent. But the way she spotted that pass and that's why she's in this England squad for her distribution because no other goalkeeper in the tournament can do what she does. And Charlotte, going back to the starting XI, after the game, Serena mentioned that it was a more balanced team. So what were the main tweaks that brought this balance, you think?

30:13I think there was some concern that with Lauren James in the number 10 role, she fulfills a much freer role. And that gives you a lot of offensive threat because she can appear in pockets and she's drifting, which is very difficult for an opponent. But then it means that England are actually overloaded in the midfield because they don't have a number 10 that will drop naturally deeper or be more predictable in that positioning. And so Elatoun gave a bit more of that solidity and punch in midfield. But I think Georgia Stamway and Keira Walsh just had a much, much better game. They were really off it.

30:56Jess Carter said that the players had a mare against France, against a very, very good team. But by then having Lauren James on the right, Elatoun more central in that midfield, just made it more compact for England. Are France just much, much better than the Netherlands, do you think? And should we, as such, maybe revisit a little bit of the doom and gloom after that 2-1, which was a narrow win only for the, at the moment, unbeatable French for England in the opening match? Yeah, France are a lot stronger than the Netherlands. And yes, they were supreme against England, but England performed poorly.

31:34And that actually gave them some hope that there was a lot of room for improvement. And they performed poorly and they only lost 2-1 and nearly grabbed an equaliser at the end. I mean, Serena Viegman had always said it's going to be a tough group. It's a tough opening game. France have always said they're the challengers. There's no pressure on them. Part of this mentality to see if they can get beyond a quarterfinal. But France look very, very dangerous and should really, really go far in this tournament. So to lose 2-1 to them is no crisis. But it's just the way that that England team performed, they were so sloppy in possession.

32:11That was why alarm bells were ringing. Well, England will now qualify for the last eight with a win over Wales on Sunday. Beyond that, I guess the other big story in Switzerland in the past week has been what Spain have been up to. Yeah, Spain, we've got vintage Buteas back. She's looked really sharp. Itada Bonmati has had a kind of supernatural reaction from the viral meningitis and just being able to play, which I find astonishing. Looks very fluid. Of course, they know each other very well, given how many Barcelona teammates are in that Spain side. We saw them at the World Cup. They performed in spite of their coach.

32:56And they are the best generation of players we have had for a long, long time. Excellent. They've got Italy in their final group game, but already through to the quarterfinals, Spain. So, yeah, we'll see about that one. England-Wales that Sunday. Charlotte, you'll be going along to the game? I will be, taking a trip out of Zurich to St Gallen.

33:22Wales, Tom. This team that's been defeated 3-0 by the Dutch and a 4-1 on Wednesday by France. How much of a threat are they going to poos? I mean, on paper, it's an enormous mismatch. It's literally a mismatch. It's a match of misses. A match, you forget. Good. And some muzzers. Also some misses. But fundamentally, yes. But yeah, I mean, you know, you've got the defending champions up against the tournament debutants. The biggest outsiders in the entire competition. And, you know, Wales are practically out of the tournament. They don't have much to play for. But we got that moment last night against France.

34:02Jess Fishlock scoring Wales' first ever goal at a major tournament. and the equaliser as well. It wasn't like a meaningless consolation. It was a goal that put Wales right back into the match and rewarded Wales for a fairly decent start to the game. Ended up losing quite heavily and conceded some soft goals, but an incredible moment. There's loads of Wales fans out in Switzerland, you know, supporting the team. And, you know, the fact that it was Fishlock as well, you know, the Gareth Bale of Welsh women's football, all-time record appearance maker all-time record goal scorer you know it couldn't have been more fitting and if that is the only thing that Wales come home from this tournament with it is still a memory that people will hold on to because you think you look at the history of this team you know less than 20 years ago the Welsh Football Association effectively mothballed the women's national team in order to be able to drive more money towards the men's team and you know players like Jess Fishlock started playing for Wales shortly after that.

35:09So they have come from the absolute bottom. And so scoring a goal against a team like France at a major tournament, Wales were always going to struggle to get out of the group, is very much the group of death, particularly from a Welsh perspective. So the fact, OK, they've lost both games, they've been quite one-sided games, but they've not been humiliated. They've held their own. They've produced good football from time to time. and that fishlot goal is something that people will remember for a long time. If Wales thrash England and France beat Netherlands as expected because France have won all ten of their matches this year, then Wales would make the quarterfinals.

35:46It would be one of the greatest days in the history of Welsh sport. So let's wait and see.

35:52James Horncastle: Let's wait and see. Have they mothballed the men's team? Maybe they should. A bit of karmic retribution 20 years on. now that the women are on the up and the men are sort of middling. Well, we look forward to those games this weekend and, of course, we'll be looking at how they went in next week's show. We're going to be up early, I think, on Monday with Totally Football's show next week, cos club work-up final. Next up, ooh, got some big legal-type discussions. Yeah. And some transfer talk. And then, of course, a little bit later on, of course, the end of Totally Cup. Woo!

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38:25This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, Part of the Athletic FC podcast network. We were talking last week about the fact that Arsenal have managed to sign in the last seven seasons six players from Chelsea. Huh. Turns out that possibly even by the time you hear this, listener, they could have made it seven from seven. Because now Arsenal decided that Noni Maduweki is the man they need, you know, to really sort their team out for next season. And in unrelated news, no to Maduecki was a hashtag that was trending Wednesday on the Hell site, former Twitter. There's also been a petition started by Gunners fans.

39:06James Horncastle: This is so horrible, this. Reminds me of Say No to Gattuso. Right. Remember those days? Now, which time was that? He was going to Tottenham. Oh, yeah. And then people found some sort of vaguely misogynistic stuff that he'd said in the past.

39:25And look where he is now, Italy coach. Andrew Turner asks, is this a make or break season for Arteta? Madueke continues his expensive yet bizarre squad building approach. And, adds Andrew, a lot of managers will be available after the World Cup. Yeah. What's the problem with Madueke? I was going to say, does this rule out the mere possibility of signing Rodrigo? Because if it does, I can't understand why Arsenal fans might be frustrated.

39:58James Horncastle: Right. See, Natalie's on the no to Maduweki. OK, but no. You mentioned Rodrigo and that's really interesting because a lot of people have been saying for some time that he's likely to be heading out or you can envisage Real Madrid unloading him. OK, what the Brazilian media is saying, what the Brazilian press is saying is that he's got a contract with Madrid till 2028 and he wants to stay. But if Madrid makes it clear that it's not a priority for them to keep Rodrigo, because he only played 100 minutes in the Club World Cup. He started just the first game and he prefers to play on the left. OK, so which is a problem.

40:37Kind of an issue when you have Vinicius Jr. and Jude Bellingham on that area. But no one from Arsenal really went after Rodrigo Stav just yet. And has any club made significant approaches to Rodrigo? What's been reported is that in the past window, last year, when we were all certain that he would leave Madrid, that the clubs really went for him. That it was a more clear movement towards taking Rodrigo out of Real Madrid. Not just yet, but it's still July. I think the Madiwaki issue is that he's basically just a less good Saka. I mean, he's a very similar player. He plays in the exact same position and in a similar way, but does everything just not quite as well as Saka does.

41:25He can play on the left, but I guess it's just hard to see how he gives Arsenal anything different. And I think if this does go through, I can't imagine him playing all that much. Although perhaps the fact that Saka got injured last season, which is something that doesn't happen to him very often, was that a sign that, you know, perhaps he needs more of a rest than he'd been given? And if you're looking for a like-for-like Saka replacement, you can do a lot worse than Madueke. But, yeah, I sort of, I share, I wouldn't say I'm fully hashtag no to Madueke, but I share the scepticism of the Arsenal fans.

42:03Yeah, I don't know, maybe a bit harsh. What about Victor Goikarez? Tony Roberton asks, is he the new Darwin Nunes? Looks great in a handful of games, explains Tony, but just too chaotic to be an elite striker. You've seen a bit of Goikarez.

42:19James Horncastle: Yeah, but the guy scored like 50 goals. It's not a case of him just doing it in a couple of games. Whether it translates to the Premier League, I get frustrated with this argument all the time. If a player doesn't do it in the Premier League, it's because he's not a good player. No, it's usually because it's not the right fit. You know, I'm sure a lot of people... He's signed for Man United usually. Well, yeah, or like, you know, famously, Mohamed Salah and Kevin De Bruyne go to Chelsea and then they get told by Jose, sorry, you're not for me. And everyone for like a year or two years, like, well, look at De Bruyne now in the Bundesliga.

42:58James Horncastle: It's the Bundesliga. You know, rubbish. You know, all that money that Man City have spent, on him idiots and it's like you know i'm sure gyoqires could be a success if he finds the right club which look arsenal in pole position for him but you know if it works uh or because it's the right fit if it doesn't work it won't all be on him you know there you go elite nonsense when did we start talking about elite stuff you know like sorry no no we had this Tony, I feel for you because this is savage. No, but... But you remember when you'd have debates on Match of the Day or Talk Sport? That's why we started talking about elite.

43:42As a way to stop just using multiples of the word top.

43:46James Horncastle: Exactly, top. Or, like, remember, it's like, what's world class? How do we define world class? And we've just moved it semantically to, like, he's elite. That's what we do. Move words around, James. Language evolves. Language evolves. We say the same things differently.

44:04I'll move on. Everton have completed the signing of elite Villarreal striker Tieno Barry for Barry, perhaps, or Barry. Yes, Barry, if he's going to pronounce it according to the French way. 27.5 million, which is not a huge amount. He featured for the French under 21 euros, Tom. He did. And one reads that people, sources within Everton feel that they have landed an absolute banger with this. yeah I mean he's he's obviously the replacement for Dominic Calvert-Lewin and he's a similar player like a tall rangy centre forwards and yeah he was didn't start all the time for France at the end of 21 euros but came off the bench quite a lot scored a 102nd minute winner against Georgia in the group phase stoppage time not extra time and yeah came on in the semi-final against Germany and put himself about to good use.

45:03So, yeah, a player with a similar kind of profile. And I guess they'll be hoping he's ever so slightly more prolific than old DCL. But can put himself about. That sounds key with a Dave Moyes team. It's the fourth summer in a row that he's been transferred to another club, which could speak to his enormous promise or other things. Let's see. Let's see. Anyway, apparently viewed as a very positive thing on Merseyside. But Spurs have agreed a deal for West Ham's Mo Kouros for£55 million. Does anyone recall the last time Kouros was playing at Tottenham Hotspur Stadium? What happened? Yeah. Not good.

45:41Yeah. I was there. Oh, you were there, actually? Yeah. No. Yeah. What happened there? Well, he got a five-game ban for essentially slapping Papi Saar in the face and also pushing, raising his hands to Micky van der Ven as well. Looking forward to the reunion. Well. But, yes, on Kudo's favor, not only you add a very skillful player who's really good in the one-on-ones, he brings speed, he can be very vertical, which can really help Spurs in transitions. but also it can have a knock-on effect on Kulusevsky because he had to play on the wing more than he wanted to because he started playing as a 10 and he prefers to play as a 10 and that position takes the best out of Kulusevsky because the way he sees the game, it can really benefit Spurs' attack.

46:32And if you have another option there, it can really help Kulusevsky and the whole front line from them. So George asking, with Thomas Frank in charge and Mohamed Kouros on his way in, and rumours of perhaps Wisser joining as well, whisper it, but could Spurs be decent next season?

46:53James Horncastle: I mean... Oh, here we go. I mean, they won the Europa League. There you go. Yeah, good point. But were they decent? Are they in the Champions League? I still think you have to be... I think if you reach a final of any competition, you have to be decent. You have to be elite, though. That's a Roma fan talking. No, no. Look, I would be quick to diminish Enzo Maresca saying, you know, conference league, Club World Cup is amazing. It's good. I would give him credit for it. But, like, you know, I mean, there are some very good players in that Spurs side. I know people who are affiliated with Spurs who think there are five or six players at Spurs who could play for Real Madrid, particularly the Real Madrid team.

47:40James Horncastle: lost 4-0 to Pitch. But, like, you know, what will be progress for Spurs next year? And is it a transition season for Spurs? Top up of the table, I'm thinking it would be a star. Well, exactly. I think it would be easy for Thomas Frank to say, look, if I've improved by just actually not losing so many games as Ange did in the league. It's quite easy. But then again, if he doesn't get top four or doesn't win a trophy, you're in this damned if you do kind of damned if you don't situation where people will just point to Ange he won a trophy didn't he I find this tricky where is the starting point for Spurs this season because like they just won Europa League but they changed managers and it's going to affect the style of play because before it was so specific but at the same time they have players who have been there for a while so like where do we where is the starting point for them It could be quite helpful for Thomas Frank that because there's not enormous expectation.

48:43You know, Spurs had their worst league season in, what, 30 or 40 years or something, but miraculously managed to win a trophy at the end of it back in the Champions League. You know, people have seen this Spurs team play some exceptional football in the last couple of years under Postacoglu. They've also seen them play some terrible football. We know there's loads of talent there. we know that one of the knock-on effects of the injury problems last season was that all these young players you know were given opportunities that will stand them in good stead they're signing new players as well so there's lots of stuff happening but I can't imagine that you know if Spurs get off to a slow start people will be you know kind of calling for Thomas Frank's head because I think there's a you know there's a realisation that he's a different coach with a different kind of approach and there's a lot of work that needs to be done

49:32James Horncastle: Also, like Ange, if he doesn't get a job this season. Hanging in there? He'll be that much. He'll be on Sky. You can guarantee he'll be in a studio or whatever. And then Natalie said maybe this year could be a transition year for Spurs. If you have a transition year and you have a coach going into his second year, the narrative will be, well, Ange always won in his second year. You think there'll be a bit of, not nostalgia, but post-talgia. well in the same way that there was a poch-talger for ages after Pochettino this is what happens, every time Spurs coaches or Spurs find a coach that the fans love after they've left they just hover in the ether above the club for years afterwards as a potential alternative to whoever's taking charge beautifully put Tom Victor Osserman is soon to be making his move to Galatasaray permanent thanks to them paying if they can come up with the guarantees a release clause of 75 million euros.

50:32It's a lot of money. But is there a bit of a question about why the big clubs around Europe haven't come in themselves for a player with his track record?

50:44James Horncastle: You know, I zig on this when everyone zags. He's had one good season in a top five league, which was when they won the league. And that was very impressive because Napoli hadn't won the league since 1990. But the guy gets injured a lot. That's why he wears a mask. and there's AFCON coming up. Right. There you go. And so a lot of Premier League teams in particular, especially now that you've got Champions League expanded league phase, you play games in the Champions League in January, you don't want to spend all this money on a goalscorer who's not going to be there for you in January. Makes total sense.

51:22Unless you go to Asura, apparently. Matteo Retegui, City, our top scorer last season, is leaving Italy for satisfied Alcantia. Alcantia. I wasn't familiar with Alcantia. That's where Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang has been. And he had a decent season, scored 17 goals, but he is being eased out, according to the reports, because of Rettigui's arrival. And he may be returning to Olympique de Marseille, according to L 'Equipe, this morning. It's a bit of transfer into musical chairs. That's lovely, isn't it? he apparently Ritegui will increase his salary by a factor of 10 with this move Atalanzo meantime will make about three times what they paid for him in the first place

52:09James Horncastle: yeah they only signed him for a year yeah Capo Caloniere top scorer in Serie A and let's not forget this guy was scouted and given his debut for Italy when he was still playing in Argentina and couldn't speak a word of Italian and in two years he's he's now a 67 million euro striker when I think a lot of people look at the Italian national team and say what's the big problem and a lot of them settle on the fact that they don't have a striker. What do you think the impact is on Italy with him moving from Serie A? It's not ideal I would say from their point of view but you can't begrudge him this.

52:47James Horncastle: Riteghi was a really late starter like his father I think was the coach of the Argentine hockey national team and he played hockey for early mid-teens and then went to football and Bocca looked at him and Bocca were like, nah, I don't like this hockey player. And then he, so late bloomer, played a couple of years in Argentina, got picked up by Mancini, came to Italy because of Mancini and then, yeah, he's, I mean, it's a remarkable rise for Riteghi. Indeed. Yeah. We'll see what he does at Alcantzia, will we?

53:29James Horncastle: you're more committed to the Saudi Pro League than I am James than most people probably yeah interesting one that let's get some of that exciting court battle news next

53:47this is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson part of the Athletic FC podcast network Lyon, Tom. Lyon have successfully appealed their relegation to Ligue 1. Yes. Was this a surprise? It was and it wasn't. Okay. In that I think that, not to sit on the fence or anything here. Oh, wow. You know, the fact that their relegation was confirmed so recently suggested that, you know, there were big problems behind the scenes and that the club needed to do an awful lot of work in order to convince the DNCG, which is French football's financial watchdog, that they remain a viable concern for the season to come.

54:32But there's always that suspicion when it comes to a big club that finds itself in trouble like this, that certain allowances may be made. So I think, yeah, I don't think people were completely surprised by it. Not great news for John Texter in that basically all it took was for him to leave and for a competent business person, Michel Kang, to come in. Okay, so he has left. He's still the owner? He's residing from the board. Yes. So he is no longer the Lyon president. He has handed power over to Michel Kang, who was already a big Lyon investor and was already in charge of the women's team. And this is like the day after the DNCG confirmed that Lyon were going to be relegated.

55:14This was first announced in November and they were told they had until the end of the season to sort themselves out. And when it came to the end of the season, they hadn't sorted themselves out in the eyes of the NCG. So the relegation was confirmed. At which point, exit Texture, enter Kang, mad dash for money. Le Keep said it was 100 million euros that needed to be injected immediately. Various other financial guarantees that needed to be provided, all of which led by Kang and Michael Gerlinger, who's the new chief executive, Leon managed to do. So they're safe. They're not going down. but restrictions on their wage budget and also on their transfer spending.

55:51So chances are they're still going to have to sell players. They probably won't be able to recruit very much. Michel Canne gave a press conference at the Groupama Stadium last night and said, you know, we're still going to be competitive. We're still aiming for European competition but there's going to be a lot of belt tightening over the weeks and months ahead. What does this mean for Crystal Palace? Well, indeed, I mean, what it means for Lyon is that they will go into the Europa League and we now await UEFA's verdict on whether or not there has been enough separation between the ownership structures of Lyon and Palace for them both to be allowed to play in this competition.

56:31So John Tech says Eagle Football Holdings are the owners of Lyon. He agreed a deal recently to sell his shares in Crystal Palace to New York Jets owner Woody Johnson. However, that hasn't gone through yet. I think that Johnson has to be ratified by the Premier League's rigorous owners and directors test.

56:53James Horncastle: Given he was the ambassador for the US to London, I think he might. You feel? Yeah. Okay. However, will it be within the timescale UEFA require? I don't know because it seems like their club financial control body, which adjudicate on this are due to decide Palace's fate this very week. Yikes. So it could be that Palace get bumped back down to the Conference League with Nottingham Forest moving up to the Europa League. Anyway, we just don't know, do we? We just don't know. So let's move on to another story. Natalie, congratulations on finally tying up Carlo Ancelotti as Brazil manager. Shame that he's now got to spend a year in jail in Spain.

57:35Oh, really? this is the angle you're going for. I've read it. It says, Brazil head coach, Carla Ancelotti, has been sentenced to one year in prison and fined almost 400 ,000 euros for failing to pay tax on his image rights, et cetera, financial kind of... It also says, James, that it's rare for Spain to enforce jail sentences. Rare. Rare for Spain to enforce jail sentences of under two years for non-violence and first-time offenders. Okay, so Messi and his dad got 21 months in prison. And we all remember how Leo came out, changed my hat with a tattoo. With a few tattoos, yeah. With a teardrop orange tattoo.

58:16But yeah, Ancelotti, yeah, it's fair. They've done this to a lot of people. Mourinho was another one who got done. Yeah, it's not the first time. Cristiano had to make that huge settlement. But it doesn't say suspended sentences. It says one year in prison. Okay, it's very rare that anyone with a sentence of less than two years actually does time. But are you not concerned? No one's losing sleep over it. I mean, it made the headlines in Brazil, but with the full explanation, not the clickbait. You just pull there. OK. All right. David Angelotti is going to be taking over at Botafogo. Yeah. All right.

58:52He is. Yeah, people are excited. They were surprised with Renato Paiva being sacked after the Club World Cup. But yeah, it's an interesting thing that's happening. You know, like having him with the experience he has, obviously, with Ancelotti and taking charge of Botafogo and bringing new ideas. Everyone is excited and, you know, they'll all be hanging out together in Rio. So, yeah, it should be fun. It does sound like fun. James, one last thing and briefly, if possible, because it is a huge story. Brescia, last month, we were talking about how Massimo Cellino responded to a points deduction relegation for the storied club by just winding them up, going, OK, I will now shut this club down.

59:41And the fact that the fans, the locals, the FA seem powerless to stop him. They're gone. There is a move to reignite Brescia to start again. How is that looking?

59:56James Horncastle: the deadlines coming up pretty soon well i mean the italian football federation did enforce this they were like you haven't paid all of this stuff and the list was very long right very varied and celino tried to fight it and then he basically couldn't fight it it's all there it's like you you have to pay this money by this time frame right otherwise we're winding you up oh so it's yeah yeah yeah so the the chileno appealed it right and you know ultimately um they they've gone bust so they they have to start at the bottom of the time football pyramid as a phoenix club under another name um which we've seen happen before with fiorentina palma yeah napoli were given a bit of a buy because as tom says when you're a big club yeah yeah you can but um you You know, all of this meant that Sampdoria had the chance to play a playout, so a relegation playout.

1:00:55James Horncastle: They had already been relegated. We did that whole… Ah, the Salernitana thing. Yeah, it was remarkable. The 16 people in hospital with gastroenteritis. Yeah. Yeah, that was quite something. But, so, okay, apologies to Massimo Chiliano. It wasn't his fault. And good luck to… Well, no, it was his fault. For not having paid them. You have to pay national insurance and salaries in order to be a going concern. But yeah, I think for people who watch that Carlo Mazzoni, Baggio, Guardiola, Pilo side, it's a big blow. But yeah, these things happen all the time in Italian football. Well, so true. So true.

1:01:40That's enough fun and games then. Up next, let's get on to some serious business with the Intertotally Cup.

1:01:49Listener, Tuesday, a dramatic tiebreaker and some late-night re-editing, saw producer Charlie Alexander go through to the semi-final. Who will be his opponent there? Let's meet the contestants.

1:02:07Up first, he is the irresistible force of the Intertotally, the only three-time winner, and the man who's ushered in an army of laptop disciples. The original tactical statistical contrarian, he is Michael Cox. Michael Cox, reigning champion. Hello. Hi, James. Michael, join us from a kitchen in Switzerland, interestingly. Yeah, that is correct. Having a good time? I am. I'm so tired it's just taken me about 10 minutes to work out how to work my tumble dryer. So I'm not feeling great, you know, particularly sharp form. but maybe I'll be better at naming the, I don't know, goal scorers from the 1997 FA Cup final or whatever.

1:02:50I'm not sure if there are any tumble dry related questions today. However, I'm glad that you got in early because using your appliances past a certain time of day in Switzerland is a legal issue, I believe. Anyway, let's find out who you're going to be facing today.

1:03:14I don't know about the things we had before. And his opponent, his soul into Totally Title, ranks as high as any journalistic accolade in a glittering career. But be prepared to suffer along with the ayatollah of anxiety. It's the man of a thousand sighs. It's Daniel Story. Daniel Story, welcome back to the show. Good morning, James. Good morning. You against Coxy, it was actually our very first InterTotally final back in 2020. Happy memories of that? Yeah, we seem to be magnetised to each other in the history of InterTotally quizzing. So, yes, I'm excited. You actually lost to Michael back then.

1:04:01He picked up one of his three InterTotally titles. You, of course, got the monkey of your back in, was it 2022 you were championing yourself? Heady days. Heady days. All right. Excellent. Well, one of you is going to go through to the semifinals of this year's quiz. But who? Let's get the questions rolling. Daniel, you're up first.

1:04:27Which two players scored for Spain in the Men's Euro 2024 final?

1:04:35Dear me. I mean, I was there, so that should help, but brain being mush. Spain, Men's Euro 2024 final. Who scored for Spain? A substitute came on. Was it Fabio Ruiz? Did he score? Oh, my goodness. It's a bad start. Do you have any names for us? No, I'm going to say, this is embarrassing, but I'm going to say, you're Mal and Ruiz, but... Well, you're 100 % wrong. Yep, sure, good start. It was actually Nico Williams and Mikel Ojazabal. The other substitute, good, yep, good start. There you go. Michael, to take a one-point lead, can you name two of the teams that England beat in the knockout stages of the Men's Euro 2024?

1:05:31for two of the teams that England beat in the knockouts?

1:05:39The Netherlands and Switzerland. Is correct. Who were the other ones? Well, I didn't... Well, there's only one other one, right? Yeah, well, the other one, right. Sorry, yeah. I couldn't remember which way around Slovenia and Slovakia was, so I avoided naming either of them. Right, right. It was Slovakia. OK, on to question two then. Daniel. To which Champions League final do the following three pieces of information all apply? It was between two teams from the same country. The final score was 2-1 and the winning team had lost the final the previous year. Two teams of the same country. Yep. Final score was 2-1 and the winners had been the beaten finalists the previous season.

1:06:28god so Real Madrid Atletico but no that was Barca Juve before that ok so 2013 was Bayern beating Dortmund and they'd lost to Chelsea the year before excellent answer and you showed you're working very very good indeed you're level with Michael Cox However, Michael, you can retake the lead if you can correctly tell us to which Champions League final. These following three pieces of information all apply. The winning manager left his club immediately after the final. Both goals were scored by a South American. And it was the winning team's third European Cup or Champions League victory. Wow, that's hard.

1:07:16Can you say that again? Of course. The winning manager left the club immediately after the final. Both goals were scored by a South American. And it was the winning team's third European Cup or Champions League victory. Sorry, for both goals? Both of the goals were scored by a South American. Is that for the winning team? There were two goals in the final. Right. So that means it's a 2-0, right? OK.

1:07:49Oh, must have been... Sorry, one more time. He left immediately afterwards, both go South American, and he was the third. Yeah, and who was... Sorry, that's into 2010. Yes, we got there. Sorry for my... No, that's OK. That's OK. That's the correct answer. Question three, then. Daniel, to again pull level, who were the first club that Sam Allardyce managed after leaving the England job. Where do you go? That's horrible. Everywhere. Everywhere. So, I mean, it's between three, which is West Ham, Sunderland and West Brom. I think taking out West Brom they felt a little bit later. so it would be Sunderland or West Ham and that's pretty much a stab in the dark I don't think of as anything that can kind of gauge it

1:08:51West Ham felt a little bit would you have got this West Ham job off the back of Sunderland though?

1:09:01I'm going to say

1:09:06just doesn't feel like it would have been that way around. I have to press you for an answer, Daniel. Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's one of those two, and I'm going to get the wrong one. Or hopefully it's a completely different one and I'm making myself look more affordable. I'm going to say... Sunderland. It was neither of those two, none of those three. Oh, nice, that's good. Michael, who was it? So very much wasted all of our time. Palace. It was Crystal Palace. Fine. Yeah, I completely forgot about his spell there. Yeah, but you're not answering the questions, James. That's so true. That's so true.

1:09:44Michael, for a two-point lead, which of the following teams has Steve McLaren not managed? Nottingham Forest, Derby County, QPR or Southampton?

1:10:02We managed Derby. He managed... Sorry, who were the other ones? Forest, Derby County, QPR or Saints? I don't remember him managing Saints. I must admit I'm not completely sure on the other ones. What's your answer? I'm associating him with not being on the south coast. I don't know what that means. He's a reverse Harry Redknapp maybe. So I'm going to say Southampton. It's correct. and you now have a 3-1 lead. Question four then, and Daniel, you need this to stay in the competition. Which team was Arsene Wenger's final ever game as Arsenal manager against? That's tough, to be honest, as a non-Arsenal supporter.

1:10:56I've got no idea, which is not promising. I'll say Chelsea. He's incorrect. Natalie Jedra is here in the studio. She knows it. She knows. How do you know this one, Natalie? I was there. I interviewed him after the match against Huddersfield. Huddersfield Town. You wouldn't have guessed that, would you, Blimey? No. No. No, yeah. I mean, I've got nothing to stand on with the 2020. The Euro final last year, so I got into my own head. Tough questions, though, Daniel. Tough questions. Let's rule the other ones out. Although, Marco, you are now through to the semifinals. You can make it a five out of five first-round performance if you get the next two.

1:11:36Question four for you is, who scored a hat-trick in Sir Alex Ferguson's final ever game as Man United manager? Lukaku. It's correct. And then your question five was, which team is missing here from Gonzalo Higuain's career path? River Plate, Real Madrid, Napoli, Juventus, Chelsea, and Inter Miami. uh milan very good hang on who answered that me yeah daniel oh right that was actually showboat showboating in precisely the wrong circumstances that was actually uh michael's question but let me ask you michael then daniel's question no that's fine so michael you have daniel's question instead which team is missing here from alvaro morata's career path real madrid juventus real Real Madrid, Chelsea, Juventus, Milan, Galatasaray.

1:12:25Which team is missing? Alvaro Morata. I thought it was going to be a really tricky one and it was going to be a fourth instance of Juventus or Real Madrid, but I think it's Atletico Madrid. It's correct. Five out of five. Woof. La Manita. Pretty, pretty good. Daniel, any thoughts? Yeah, I mean, it's easy for me to say this now, but I actually do think I'd have got five on Michael's, which hurts quite hard. I had the McLaren in with Forrest. Lucy helped. No, fair play, Michael. You can't beat five. And that after struggling to turn his tumble dryer on as well. So who knows how he'll perform in the semifinals when he'll be taking on...

1:13:07Producer Charlie. Just kidding, everyone. Michael, how excited are you about that? Pleased with the win. Tough semifinal, obviously. Yeah, I wouldn't have got the Huddersfield one, in fairness, but I would have got the other ones. Of course. Nice. What are you going to be up to in Switzerland over the weekend? I'm in Bern for Italy, Spain. I'm in Zurich for Sweden, Germany. And then I'm in Basel for France against the Netherlands. So three pretty good matches. Lots of travel. But in Switzerland, that's fine because their stuff works. It's great. Magnificent. Magnificent. Enjoy your weekend, Michael.

1:13:49Thanks for being with us today. congratulations Daniel we'll be speaking to you soon possibly on Monday actually when the Totally Football Show returns so that's something to look forward to for all of us for now that brings us to the end of today's show so thanks to you guys thanks to Natalie thanks to James and Tom and producer Charlie and we'll catch up with you Monday have a great weekend for now from all of us here it's goodbye

1:14:18you've been listening to the Totally Football Show part of the Athletic FC podcast network. For more great football podcasts like this one, including the Athletic FC, and our six dedicated club podcasts, search for The Athletic on Apple, Spotify, and all the usual places. The Totally Football Show is an Athletic Media Company production.

1:14:41The Athletic FC podcast network.

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