Rashford shines for Barca as red-hot Haaland heads to Arsenal

0:01The Athletic FC.

0:09Totally extra. Today, Thursday Champions League. The markers of Catalonia as Barca beat Newcastle with the bomb squad player exploding. Meanwhile, Manchester City have Phil Foden and yet another record for Erling Haaland after their 2-0 win against Napoli. What will happen this weekend as City visit the Gunners and the Magpies head to Bournemouth? We'll look at that, plus on this day and no renovation. Jose's back. But will the magic be as he returns to Benfica? All that in this Totally Extra. Friday the 19th of September. Hello, listener. It's a special Totally Extra, aren't they all? Today we've got Tom Williams.

0:51Hello, Tom. Hello, James. Charlie Eccleshare. Hello. Hello. All right, Charlie and Jack Lang. All right, Jack. Hello, James. Good morning to you all. It's a Friday morning, early. We've got an extra pod for you this week covering events Thursday night in the Champions League and also the ongoing events in Lisbon following Tuesday's dramatic defeat for Benfica at the hands of Carabag. Woof. Charlie, you were with us just yesterday. You didn't drop in the fact in our regular Thursday Totally Football Show that you'd just been hanging out with Bjorn Borg. Yeah, yeah. Genuine sporting royalty. And he does have this sort of aura that you'd hoped for.

1:39Yeah, very cool man. Is that a piece that you've got coming out? It came out yesterday. Yeah, it's up on The Athletic for your delectation. Brilliant. He's not well, is he, Bjorn? He's not. I mean, he's, it sounds more serious. I mean, he's had a cancer diagnosis a couple of years ago, but he's in remission and he tests regularly. His last tests were clear and he's very optimistic. And I mean, still looks in incredible health. But yeah, so hopes and prayers with him. Yeah, what a life. What a life he's had. As you say, what an incredible sportsman too. I know this has nothing to do with what we're here to talk about, but what was he like?

2:19Were you at all intimidated by talking with him? I had spoken to him once before, which helped. So it wasn't like the first, like, oh, my God, you know. No, not really. Like, he's very, for someone who has achieved all that he has and is, like, so impossibly cool, he was quite good at making me feel at ease. Very nice, Charlie. Very nice. Tom, what's been the highlight? What's the most famous person you've met recently? Perhaps in the match of Zidane Studios.

2:48Jack Lang: yeah that is the first one that comes to mind um although not quite as glamorous as as bjorn borg i interviewed mo salah recently that was that was fun yeah um very nice he was too yeah turned up to the interview in his socks we were at the liverpool training center and um and other things no just socks just socks that's how that's how relaxed he was cheap that's how relaxed he wasn't glad he was relaxed no no just for the avoidance of doubt he was wearing training kit and and socks all right quite the scoop that would have been yes jack you've met colonne so you know you win this round i think uh yeah um that was quite a low-key non-nervy encounter but Yeah, nice fella.

3:41Okay. I mean, you've met all the legends, haven't you? I've met some legends, yeah. I've interviewed, I guess, if we're... Well, just help me out. If I was trying to impress someone at a party, James. We're having a game of celebrity VRT.

3:57Jack Lang: This is the journalist equivalent of putting your medals on the table, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Go on. I hate everything about this. Which famous people do you know? Help me out with a quick answer so we can conclude this being gone for a ball. Ronaldinho, James. Oh, yeah. Was he a quiet man? He was, it was an interesting one. He, everything is arranged through his brother, who is by reputation a bit of a, I suppose a nice way to say it would be his gatekeeper. And Ronaldinho kind of was just like pointed into this room and kind of sat there slightly glassy-eyed. It was on a media junket, a Champions League trophy tour.

4:40situation which doesn't necessarily lend itself to hard-hitting journalism but he was he was nice yeah brilliant all right while charlie was answering that i was just thinking who mine would be and then i remembered that one day i met cristiano ronaldo um leo messi and neymar at the same time so that was that was a lot in what context it was the fifa you know it was the whatever the FIFA Ballon d 'Or it was the best but you know it was before the best but it was one of those and uh we were going to do a press conference together well I was going to be interviewing the three of them for a group of journalists but beforehand we kind of met and chatted and um Messi was perfectly kind of pleasant but clearly not there in any kind of real sense mentally and Neymar was as you might expect from what was then still a teenage Brazilian superstar not all that bothered but cristiano ronaldo was extraordinary he did that thing which some celebs do where they kind of fix you and they give you 100 energy and focus and yeah i i did a um sorry to keep this interminable chat going i i once before i was at the athletic i did a job interviewing neymar but as part of an internal ad campaign and he was very nice came kind of rolled in slightly late as you'd imagine this was kind of Paris era in Neymar and the people who were running this campaign said yeah this is kind of the the tone of the whole shoot is set by the star obviously and the way they are and they said the difference between that and Cristiano Ronaldo Ronaldo you have to be absolutely on it because he comes in like bang on time we've obviously got this big Ronaldo discipline myth but interesting that it applies even in his kind of media commitments.

6:31Briefly, who's the most famous non-football person that you've met? Charlie? Bjorn Borg? Rafael Nadal was the week before I spoke to Borg. So it was quite a run, actually. I think with Charlie, we'll have to stipulate non-football, non-tennis. Oh, yeah. Keep it fair. Let's make a bit of a cheat. Come back to me. Let me think of someone else. Can we do it at the end? Yeah, we'll do it at the end. Yeah, I might have to give it some thought as well. Right. Bill Murray for me. Just leave that there. Wow. Anyway, let's get on to the week's Champions League results. Thursday, Man City beat Napoli 2-0 at the Etihad.

7:09Napoli going down to 10 men after just 20 minutes. KDB taking off shortly after the game. Kind of ended there. But some special goals followed from Erling Haaland and Jeremy Doku. On Tyneside, meanwhile, Thursday night, Barcelona with 2-1 winners against Newcastle. Marcus Rashford with a brace. Anthony Gordon with a late reply for the home sides Thursday's other games were perhaps even more eventful you had Club Bruges who'd pumped Rangers 6-0 in the qualifying round now trashing Monaco 4-1 and with Saint-Gilois winning Tuesday at PSV that adds up to a great week for the Belgian sides Thursday's Sporting were also 4-1 winners against new boys Kaira of Kazakhstan ex-Wolfsman Trinkau with a brace while Eintracht Frankfurt were 5-1 winners against Galatasaray.

7:59That's Frankfurt's biggest goal haul in the competition for 65 years. Their 19-year-old Turkish star Can Uzan scoring for the fourth game in a row for Eintracht who go top of the Champions League table for what it's worth. Also on Thursday, Copenhagen drew 2-2 with Leverkusen. Leverkusen, who you'll recall, fired Erich Ten Hag about 10 days back. Now under the auspices of Kasper Holman, they had another free kick from Alex Grimaldo, his third in a week, and then heartbreakingly for the home side, a stoppage time own goal, making it 2-2. 25 goals all in all across those six games on Thursday, which makes match day one add up to 67, which equals the highest tally from a match day last season.

8:46What does it all mean? Probably nothing. Probably nothing. Nice counterpoint to the Premier League, though, which has been so goal shy this season. Very true, Charlie, very true. Well, let's start off by talking about the three goals and other things that happened on Thursday night at St. James'.

9:01Jack Lang: This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC Podcast Network.

9:33Well, Marcus Rashford there with a rocket of a shot, making it 2-0 earlier. Just after, well, about 10 minutes into the second half, he had scored his first goal for Barcelona, heading home from a Jules Koundé cross. cross and Barcelona looking pretty comfortable for the rest of the second half. Anthony Gordon eventually pulling one back in the 90th minute after which Barcelona saw out the seven minutes of time added on pretty effectively. Marcus Rashford, what a return for him. Fantastic in terms of the goals. Interestingly, I thought he was probably a candidate to be taken off in the run up to that he had quite a quiet uh first half what didn't really um didn't really give kieran trippier many issues had one really nice run and then kind of shanked a shot at the end of it but the first goal yeah just pulled away from fabian share really cleverly and yeah the second goal i think you almost don't understand what's happened on the first viewing it was hit with such weird angles.

10:38He was kind of running away and you expect a kind of a side foot or a kind of a whipped curl, but actually he's almost curled it the other way. He's almost run around it. Very strange shot, but absolutely deadly. And yeah, just took the breath out of the stadium, really, I thought, kind of just the beauty of it and what it did to the scoreline, of course. Yeah, I completely agree with that about that second goal. Like it's very rare you see a goal and you think, I'm not sure I've seen that goal before. Most goals are kind of a variation on a theme, but that was really unusual, the way he hit that right footer, hitting it from the right in that way, sort of cutting across it and it going in off the bar, but not that much in the corner.

11:18It was a really unusual strike, but incredibly effective. And just, I mean, like, not to view everything through a kind of Manchester United prism, but it does just add to this feeling I've got that it does, to have given Amorim the power to have, like, tanked the value and binned off some of the club's most valued and liked players just seems extraordinary. And, you know, I appreciate he's not doing this every game, but yeah, all just feels very weird for a guy that himself will probably be gone. And then I just feel like they'll be left thinking, was this worth it? Like letting this guy have this power to do this much to such sort of important and influential players.

11:57But yeah, great for Rashford and a really useful win for Barca and a pretty difficult place to go.

12:05Jack Lang: I'm not a betting man, but I'm sorely tempted to put some money on Andre Inanna winning the 2026 Lev Yashin Trophy. Because that would very much be in the direction of travel of all these ex-United players. On Rashford's second goal, I thought technically it was very interesting because if a right-footed player is running right across the pitch with the ball and nudging it in that direction, if he then hits it with his right foot, the ball will kind of roll up his foot. It's a little bit like running onto a layoff. You think about the most powerful shots that you see in football. They're very frequently a first-hand shot from a player running onto a layoff.

12:45Jack Lang: And in a way, in moving across the pitch left to right and then hitting it right-footed, Rashford was creating his own layoff. And when you do that, the ball will roll up the side of your foot. And that is why, as Jack and Charlie were saying, it ends up looking like such a peculiar strike because he's basically able to hit it with his laces, but he's only able to do that because he's moving the ball in that direction. And then, yeah, freakish trajectory in off the bar and a reminder that, you know, that has always been one of his most exciting weapons as an attacking player. The ability to, you know, to score goals like that.

13:22Jack Lang: The one he scored at Man City shortly before he left United. That free kick at Chelsea in the League Cup a few years back. and yeah, an absolute wonder goal. I mean, even more impressive than I had accounted for actually because according to Tom's metrics, he's actually got two goals and an assist, which in a 2-1 win is particularly, but he set himself up according to Tom. Well, he held off for Sandro Tonali while doing all of that for the second goal. The first goal, was he advantaged by the fact that Fabian Shah was a bit dizzy still from having received the full force of a Rashford strike on the Bonts.

14:01It did look that way, yeah. It was a slightly unusual set of circumstances for that goal as well. And as Tom says, in a way, that goal is, that header is slightly less one we associate with him, but it was a really good header than a kind of wonder goal, as unusual as that wonder goal was. It was a great cross as well on his left foot from Koundé. Like when he cut inside, I thought this looked like it was going to be very speculative, and maybe it was, but it ended up being basically inch perfect.

14:26Jack Lang: Very Roy of the Rovers to like Nobble one of your opponents By wanging the ball at his hat God, Roy Race just wasn't getting any change Out of this centre back How am I going to get rid of him? I know, thought Roy I'll smash the ball at his face See how he likes that I wish Fabian showed the very best That looked a little bit non - Of course I would say Yeah, a bit non-plussed As he was eventually withdrawn About I think 10 minutes after the goal actually Great result for Barcelona and a great week for them. They beat Valencia 6-0 over the weekend. Now triumphed at St. James' Park. Not an easy place to go.

15:07Both of these results without Lamine Yamal. So looking good, impressed? Yeah, I'm impressed that he managed to get the job done because it had the feel for the first, well, maybe certainly the first half, but more or less until Rashford scored of one of those games. But Newcastle are incredibly effective and in quite an old school way in some respects. You know, like when you go to St. James Park, it is a cliche, but the fans are so up for it. If they can kind of build up ahead of steam and, you know, they're flying into challenges. They're a very physical team, Newcastle. And I think that would have, you know, that looked like it unsettled Barcelona at times, especially that midfield.

15:49So for them to kind of ride out that storm. Because if Newcastle had gone ahead, I think that would have been incredibly uncomfortable for Barcelona. Trying to break down that Newcastle defence when they've got something to hold on to. They can really lock down. So, yeah, I think that's a three points that I don't think that many other teams will be getting in this group stage. I mean, famous last words. But, yeah, I think that's actually a really good win for them. Barcelona this coming weekend will be at their training ground a rather more compact venue for their home match against Getafe because the Nou Camp is not yet renovated Newcastle will be heading to the only slightly larger Vitality Stadium for a game against Bournemouth of course Eddie Howard's former side club where he made his name as the Wunderkind of the English managerial scene but against whom he's never won as Newcastle manager We'll talk about the Magpies prospects in that a little bit later on.

16:48But next, let's get on to the other Thursday night Premier League involving Champions League clash, which was Man City, Napoli.

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17:35Jack Lang: This is the Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. The Athletic is the only place you can read articles by Daniel Taylor, Amy Lawrence, Phil Hay, James Pearce, Oli Kay and the very best football writers around. Doku Lovely footwork Brilliant stuff Gorgeous goal Jeremy Doku doubles Manchester City's lead And that should be enough against the 10 men of Napoli Doku's dancing feet there Making it 2-0 to Man City In Thursday night's clash with Napoli A game which kind of ended as a proper contest After about 20 minutes When Giovanni Di Lorenzo hapless Giovanni Di Lorenzo got himself into a real muddle trying to defend a long ball against Erling Haaland largely running in the wrong direction for a couple of metres and then bringing it down well long ball slightly unfair beautifully slipped off from Phil Foden one of the passes of the season from Phil Foden yeah and sorry James I felt like I was unnecessarily no no you're absolutely right in there but I was going to make a point of saying that you know I think one of the most positive things from a Man City perspective in these last two matches apart from Erling Haaland's goal scoring form has been the the re-emergence of Phil Foden he was brilliant in the derby and he was brilliant again last night absolutely exquisite pass to Haaland you know prior to him being hacked down by Di Lorenzo and then that fantastic assist you know that little dink for the header and you know he was so below par last season Foden and it was it was so dispiriting seeing him just kind of traipse around the place having had such an exceptional 2023-24 season so yeah very encouraging that he's you know appears to you know to be somewhere approaching his best Foden's back yeah and Rodri starting both games over the last week feels pretty significant for them.

19:42Excellent. And the fact that they could take him off after an hour yesterday, you know, with an eye on Sunday. Yeah, so we had Foden with the ball, which led to Di Lorenzo being sent off, then the assist for the goal, Haaland scoring that magnificent dance through the penalty box from Jeremy Doku for the second goal. And a game that, as I say, once Di Lorenzo had gone, it pretty much just become attack against defence, happily held out for the first half and then it was all relatively straightforward for City it's a big week for Erling Haaland as well you talk about the positives so Sunday he scored his 50th home Premier League goal in almost record time only Alan Shearer had done that quicker here scoring his 50th Champions League goal in just 49 games which as I'm sure everyone's seen is an enormous record 13 games quicker than the previous best which was Ruud van Nisselrooy leaving the likes of Leo Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo, etc.

20:41in the shade. Your pals? Extraordinary. Yeah, your mates. Yeah, it's interesting with Haaland because this is maybe more of a me problem than a world problem. But like last year when he was slightly, maybe not firing on all cylinders the whole time, you slightly take him for granted. You think maybe there will be a gradual slowing down of that goal record as defences get used to playing him, as perhaps he kind of settles into his career. You don't expect someone to maintain that kind of goal or game record throughout their career. But actually, the slowing down has been very minimal. And this season clearly looks sharper, I think, than he did last season.

21:29There seems to be no doubt that he is, I suppose, going to be the focal point. There was a moment last year when they bought Mahmoud, for example, and you thought, okay, maybe there could be a tiny bit of rotation. Maybe Gouadier could play two up front on some occasions. That seems to have been completely sidelined. And Haaland is, again, unbelievably central in every respect. And he looks scary again, which I'm not a City fan, but I enjoy that. I mean, it is kind of mad with him. If you were an outsider, sort of casually being introduced to football, you would kind of think the guy who scores a goal pretty much every game would be talked about as like, well, certainly the best player in the Premier League and maybe the best player anywhere.

22:16And I know he was second in the Ballon d 'Or in 2023 when Messi won it based on sort of World Cup stuff. So he has had some recognition, but he's not really ever talked about in that way. I think he's kind of looked down on a bit because technically he's maybe not as accomplished as some of the players you consider to be the very best. but he's extraordinary. And yeah, we do take it for granted because it's been so regular. He's not really had dips. So why do you think he's, why do you think there is that slight snobbishness about him? I recall being sat in the studio with Michael Owen, here we go again, when Michael was basically suggesting that Haaland's not a good finisher, which when you look at the numbers seems incredible.

22:56And yet if Michael Owen says so, then you have to, I guess, kind of examine that as a possibility. What do you think? Well, yeah, I think his superpower is his movement. So he doesn't have to be the best finisher in the world because his movement is so good that he's getting a lot of really good chances, which actually is what most elite strikers do. What sets them apart is the volume of chances they get rather than necessarily than how well they finish them. And that's him. I mean, he's an amazing combination of doing extraordinary things, but also scoring quite a few goals that make you think, I reckon I could probably score that.

23:31You know, it's great, which for like, whereas like most elite players are doing things that you're like, oh my God, that is like unimaginably incredible. I mean, Jack mentioned Ronaldinho, who's probably like his polar opposite in that respect. But I think Haaland does, you know, and the interesting thing about most elite strikers is they do miss a lot of chances as well, obviously. So he can look, you know, yeah, he might look clumsy sometimes with his finishing and certainly with his all round play. But when you're getting that many chances, you're scoring a ludicrous amount of goals. And that's just incredibly valuable.

24:01He does also score those unbelievable goals as well. One in particular in the Champions League, I recall from a Kevin De Bruyne assist a couple of seasons back. Yeah, he's so acrobatic and athletic. He will get some of those spectacular ones. With him, I wonder if there is a little bit of the kind of City, slightly taking the shine off players factor. Like Grealish is the obvious example, but Haaland in a slightly different way. And he's still very effective, still scoring a lot of goals. But I think the times that he looks most terrifying, most, you know, almost unstoppable are the times when he is given space.

24:41Like in the Manchester derby is a good example. When there is a bit of space in front of him and a team, you know, City, turnover possession and get it forward quickly. That's when he, you know, that probably brings out his qualities more than when City are dominating possession. I guess it's the same as probably true of a lot of high quality attacking players is that they would look better in a counter-attacking team almost because they'd be afforded the time and the larger spaces to work a bit of magic whereas possession dominant teams, they have to feed on slightly thinner gruel.

25:18Jack Lang: I think maybe another issue for Haaland and other City players is like a lack of cheerleaders, like in the sort of like punditry space, because City have only been a top level contender for about 15, 16 years. You know, football TV studios are not awash with well-known ex-City players. But there's a one-man flood. Well, unless it's Micah Richards, you know, if Paul Dickoff is talking up Harland is the best thing since Lausbride. Is that going to make the back pages of all the newspapers? Arguably not. And again, and I think, you know, just to pick up on what Jack said, there is a kind of perhaps a natural reluctance to be too positive about City because of, you know, issues, shall we say.

26:06Jack Lang: And perhaps that just feeds into it. Well, Harland is a problem that Arsenal will be looking to solve this Sunday afternoon afternoon in possibly the standout fixture from a pretty interesting round of Premier League games. It's a big week for City. They've already had the Manchester derby last weekend, now the game against Napoli and then Arsenal and looking, as you say, in pretty good form and then you sit back and hit on the break, counterattacking ethos. Remarkable. Interesting that neither of the two games, I think the two Premier League involving games gave us what the kind of romantic narrative had predicted.

26:46KDB's return ended after the red card for Di Lorenzo and Conte took him off. So that never really happened. And equally, Newcastle, all that talk of the 3-2 from 1998, Aspiria sitting in the stands watching. Rashford kind of killed that off as well.

27:05Jack Lang: Newcastle could have kind of done with Atino Aspiria because Eddie Howe decided to start with Nick Voltemada on the bench. and to play Anthony Gordon through the middle. And Newcastle actually started pretty well. And as ever, incredible atmosphere at St. James' Park, all the flags, players are really up for it. But the chances that they did create in the first half in particular were just kind of falling to the wrong players. Anthony Alanga looked absolutely electrifying at times. There was that one where he got to the byline, cut it back for Anthony Gordon, who was the nominal centre forward, who totally missed his kick.

27:41Jack Lang: And then a bit later on in the half, again, again, El Anger with this incredible burst down the right flank and a lovely cross to the back post. And again, in fairness to Harvey Barnes, difficult angle and the chance for sale. And you did wonder how Newcastle might have fared with a real number nine in the team at that stage with a kind of a reincarnated Fastino Asprey. Perhaps AI technology will one day make that possible, James. I mean, we can all explore that, I'm sure. I mean, both Newcastle teams were kind of reeling from the loss of their main striker in 97. Shearer was out with a serious knee injury they picked up in preseason, and they were kind of working out what on earth to do.

28:24And they struggled basically that whole season. Obviously, now Newcastle post-Ezac are in this not entirely short, you know, they're kind of working things out a bit. And yeah, that night, obviously, Espria was kind of, that was his big night for them. And yeah, I mean, it was waiting for that hero and there was no one quite ready to take centre stage, almost literally. Not this time, not this time. Well, we'll see what happens this weekend. On next, to the Premier League, Match Day 5.

28:58Jack Lang: You're listening to The Totally Football Show with James Richardson, now with you four times a week. Keep up to date with us on Insta and enjoy us in glorious Technicolor on YouTube at The Totally Show. We talked about most of these fixtures in Thursday's show, but not the Arsenal Man City nor the Bournemouth Newcastle, where, as I mentioned, Eddie Howe will be returning to the club where he made his name and whom he has never beaten in six previous attempts as Newcastle manager. Would I be right in suggesting that he's not a Newcastle and the favourites to do it this time either? I think that's right, yeah.

29:33I mean, the start Bournemouth have made, they've been incredibly strong. Plus, they're fresh, didn't have a Thursday night clash with Barcelona. They're on their best start to a Premier League season ever after that 4-2 opening day defeat to Liverpool, which was quite impressive in its own way. They've won three on the bounce. Antoine Semenya is looking, as the saying goes, unplayable. Five of Bournemouth's six goals this season have been scored or assisted by him. And Adrian Clarke making the point that the way that he drifts, the way that he pops up all over the place means it's very difficult for Newcastle, who are defensively a fine outfit, to effectively counter him.

30:14Is that fair?

30:15Jack Lang: Yeah, absolutely. Sorry, Charlie, you go. No, I was going to say as well, unplayable means the opposite in American English, which causes some confusion with athletic readers. They're like, how are you saying that? For them, it means you cannot play this guy, which obviously would be a big thing to say about Semenyo. No, he's amazing. And like Bournemouth, their ability, like, you know, we've seen this with other teams down the years, but to kind of refresh. I mean, they were absolutely raided over the summer and to have seemingly regenerated has been incredibly impressive. So, yeah, I think I would sort of give them the edge.

30:53And I do think like, yeah, the Thursday, Sunday, especially it wasn't just any game. It was a pretty exhausting game. And it felt at the end like a few of the Newcastle players were really feeling it physically. That turnover of players at Bournemouth, people put it down to the fact that they are a system team and therefore they can slot similar players in. But I guess they are the outlier, the rare example of a manager who's wedded to a philosophy where it actually works. I think that's right. I think you look at the way newer players are able to adapt quite quickly because there is clarity there.

31:29I think there is a lot to be said for that. I love the variety they have in attack. You've got Semenyo, who is obviously just so quick and direct and two-footed, which I think is a really underappreciated quality for a winger, especially being able to go on either side. We've seen that a bit with Madweki at Arsenal, actually, that being able to go on his right as well brings a lot to a winger's game. And then you've got Evan Nilsson. I think Evan Nilsson is a very underrated player as well. He's smart. He drops off. He allows the others to move into position. He chips in with a few goals. David Brooks, I think, is a really subtle, lovely player to watch.

32:09And just you've got three really distinct players. And I think when you've got a good platform behind it, that kind of variety brings so much. And yeah, I think they're just a fantastic team to watch, really. Tough game ahead then, perhaps, for Newcastle. Two o 'clock on Sunday. Later on that day, it's Arsenal against Man City. Now, this is a fixture that in February ended 5-1 to Arsenal. The Gunners, in fact, unbeaten in the last four meetings with Man City. City, you have a poor record falling on from Champions League games. Arsenal have a couple of days extra rest. How do you see this one heading, Tom?

32:50Jack Lang: Yeah, I mean, we got very used to seeing City beating Arsenal quite comfortably without having to give the game too much thought during the Pep Guardiola era. But things have shifted in the last few years. I think it's four unbeaten for Arsenal against City. And I think we've all been impressed by Arsenal in the season's early weeks. There's this feeling that there is now a squad depth there that wasn't there last season. And so despite high-profile absentees, you look at the win against Forrest last weekend, no William Saliba, no Bakayo Saka, Declan Rice on the bench, Martin Odegaard has to come off through injury.

33:28Jack Lang: It doesn't matter, they win 3-0 midweek against Athletic Bilbao in the Champions League. And there again, it was the bench that got them out of trouble with Gabriel Martinelli and Leandro Trossard coming on. I think the foundations are to look a little bit more solid than they do at City, in that City are capable of producing these stellar performances. You know, they look brilliant against United last weekend, very good against Napoli last night. But we've also seen them look very feeble, you know, losing at home to Spurs, as they always do, losing away at Brighton in almost identical circumstances to the way that they lost at Brighton last season.

34:08Jack Lang: So, yeah, my tendency would be to have Arsenal as favourites for this one, particularly with the extra two days of recovery time that they've had. Right. The one game where we weren't impressed with Arsenal, I guess, this season, or a lot of people had questions, was the defeat to Liverpool. Courteous of that last-minute goal, but a lot of people pointed the finger at Mikel Arteta and talking about an excess of caution, Charlie. I'm not sure if you feel that was a valid criticism and if you think that there'll be similar issues against City or Tom mentions defeats to the likes of, well, Brighton, for example, which is a similar kind of ball-playing team.

34:44Is that fair that that's the kind of team that actually will give City problems? I mean, I think that Liverpool game was slightly strangely framed in the sense that if you told someone one team is away and missing sort of three or four of their most important players against the champions, I would think they it would sort of you'd think that is it more that they're the team for the taking I think what happened was Arsenal played very well in the first half and really nullified Liverpool and because they'd played they'd done that really well it was kind of like well why don't you just go on and win the game as if you know Liverpool they'd as if Liverpool had become this really bad team I think and and yeah they could have done that but I think Liverpool inevitably came back into the game in the second half and uh and look it's part of a you know a wider accusation leveled at Arteta.

35:37That said, I think the fact that it's at home is very different. And, you know, they beat City 5-1 in this game. They've had big wins over Liverpool at home the last few years. They beat City the previous season. I don't think it will be like that. I mean, the games that the Etihad, there have been some really drab ones. There was a 0-0 two seasons ago, which was, you know, dire for the neutral. but you know there is this legacy of City beating Arsenal 12 times in a row in the Premier League I mean that is extraordinary for you know for City to do that to any team to do that to a team that you know in theory should be somewhere close to them and obviously they weren't for a lot of those years um yeah I don't think that I don't think it will be cagey like that that said the one this game the Emirates a couple of seasons ago was very cagey Arsenal won it late but yeah I mean it's that they they should feel or i expect they will feel that yeah you know they've got a good chance having had city's number so to speak the last couple of seasons um the harlan narrative is really interesting obviously you know last time he played there in february he had 60 000 people singing stay humble you you know what i'd imagine he would absolutely revel in scoring as he actually did that day he scored the equalizer but then they lost 5-1 um but yeah that adds another little bit of needle to what has become a pretty needly fixture I mean Rodri has stoked the fire as well he talked about how in that game that Arsenal drew nil nil in the title run in 22 20 I'm sorry in 23 24 City ended up narrowly pipping Arsenal and he said you know that well we knew that we were better than that day because they just came for a point they didn't want to win um he obviously he then did his ACL against Arsenal in the Etihad fixture last season that Etihad fixture was mad with the red card, the last minute equaliser and the crazy celebration.

37:28So I think there'll be a lot going on and it might be who keeps their heads better. I'm hopeful of the possibility that even if it is tactically quite a stalemate, yeah, the kind of potential for a little bit of chaos is hopefully higher than it has been for some of the kind of top of the table clashes in the last few seasons. expected beef is high it's a shame that Lewis Skelly has kind of dropped out of the picture a bit because him against Haaland is obviously is what sparked the whole Haaland versus the entire Emirates thing so it would be nice if he gets involved in that again and I just have the feeling with Arsenal they're so clinical and professional in a lot of their wins but they do have a lot of players who I think given half an opportunity would be also quite up for like a 22-man shoving match.

38:23I see a lot of potential in Arsenal for that and I really would love to see it because just a ton of six foot four blokes like Rice, I think, Calafuri, Gabriel, Timber can be a little bit spiky as well. I think these guys would love a proper melee and it's a shame to be denied that. All right. Well, 4.30 on Sunday afternoon. Who knows, Jack? Who knows? The Gunners who are currently averaging four goals a game at home this season, but who will be here up against Gigi Donruma, who you will recall was very much their kryptonite in the Champions League semi-finals last season when he was still with Paris Saint-Germain.

39:02Anyway, Sunday night after that game, we'll be getting together for our usual live recording of the Monday Tony Football Show, if you want to watch us do that. With the all ensuing hilarity, join us on YouTube. That'll be around 7.30 Sunday evening. Very good. Next up, let's have a quick check on On This Day in football history and then talk about Benfica. 19th of September, as we record this list, on this day in 1926, 99 years ago today, was the first ever game played at San Siro, to give it its proper title, the Giuseppe Miazza. Inter beating Milan in a friendly 6-3. Very nice. A lot of people, when you say San Siro, go, oh, they're going to knock that down.

39:51When are they knocking it down? Well, not yet, because they've got to do the opening ceremony of the Winter Olympics next year there. And then after that, my opinion is that it's going to be there for a long time. A couple of years ago, when that big story about they're going to knock down San Siro went around, then the government stepped in and said, no, you can't do that. It's a listed building. That then got overturned, and then the overturning got overturned. And anyway, we're now in a position where the clubs were this week given approval by the Milan Council to actually buy the ground and do what they want with it.

40:24However, they've only got 50 days to get the sales through because on the 10th of November, because of the construction date of the second ring of the stadium, it will once again become a listed building. So can they get over the line in 50 days? Of course not. It won't happen. so anyway San Siro I reckon for a long while yet and the clubs will end up if they want to build a new stadium they'll build it somewhere else 33 years ago on the 19th of September that takes us to 1992 and this So David James then the expensive close season signing for Liverpool plays the ball deep into the Villa half Sean Teal goes up for it but he's beaten by Ronnie Rosenthal Rosenthal and it looks like a goal and he's hit the crossbar

41:05Jack Lang: would you believe it and cleared by Paul McGrath relief for Villa relief for the Holt end as Ronnie Rosenthal surely suffers the miss of the season. Ronnie Rosenthal there with one of the most iconic misses in Premier League history. Paul, Ronnie Rosenthal, it's essentially iconic because it was the first one. Is that right? Charlie, I'm sure you've done a deep dive on this. Well, speaking of name-dropping celebs we've hung out with, I have been to Ronnie Rosenthal's house to interview him many years ago. Lovely man. I don't remember I'm sure we did talk about that miss but there's not loads more he can say but yeah it was the first Premier League major gaff moment wasn't it I think it's almost I think it's as much the nature of the miss though as the fact that it was the first big one in the Premier League because there's a psychological element you feel his loneliness at the moment of the miss in a way that you don't with other misses.

42:07Jack Lang: Very occasionally, or very frequently in fact, something will pop up on social media. Oh my God, this is the miss of the season. And it's some guy at the back post and someone's fizzed across in and it's come at him quite quickly and he hasn't organised his feet and it's gone over the bar, it's gone wide or whatever. And it looks very bad and the slow motion makes it look extremely bad. But there's a desperate solitude to Rosenthal's in that he's round the keeper. Just roll it into the net, mate. just yeah just yeah just any way you want just run into the net and he hits it in a really weird way and i think i'd watched it back last night in preparation for this discussion james it does bobble like the only reason that it hits the cross spot from where he is is that the ball just kind of sits up as he's about to prod it in um so yeah i think for me that that that elevates it that is similar miss anyone remember steve stone's miss yeah nottingham forest against reading was it a few years and a very similar empty net just roll it in mate anyway just take your time just roll it in and he did the same sort of thing and there's something that's more painful about that than the ball just coming off someone's shins sure I imagine that you and I perhaps watched the same compilation of Premier League's greatest missed goal opportunities which features of course your Timo Werner's and your Darwin Nunes's but also some of the greats there's a Haaland miss in the Manchester derby there's Cristiano Ronaldo Although with a...

43:33Yeah, that's... That's a huge one. Torres against Man United. Shearer actually putting one out for a throw-in, which was... That's what I mean. You know, the best strikers miss big chances. They do. There was a Ryan Giggs one incredibly similar to the Rosenthal one. Yeah, the FA Cup one against Arsenal. On his weaker foot. Yeah. And a bit further out, but even so. There was one this week, in fact, in the Benfica-Carabao game. I'm not sure if you saw this. It's a huge miss. Striker coming in, the ball, not particularly fizzed across, but the ball there for him, and he just puts it wide of the post with ramifications that we'll be touching on very, very shortly.

44:12One more on this day, and it's 26 years ago, 1999. Sir Bobby Robson, the much-loved, much-missed Sir Bobby, had his first game in charge of Newcastle.

44:21Jack Lang: His first home game, actually, James. Oh, thank you, Tom. First home game. They lost at Chelsea the week before. Really? First home game in Charger, Newcastle. And what a home game it was. Magpies beating Sheffield Wednesday 8-0. Alan Shearer, who'd been benched by Rude Hullett for the previous home game, Tom? Yes. Returning to the starting line-up and scoring five. Have some of that, Rude. That's still the joint highest tally by an individual player in a Premier League game. Andy Cole, Jermaine Defoe, Dimitar Berbatov And also Sergio Aguero have all managed five in a single game, as did Erling Haaland for Norway last week.

45:05But in the Premier League, no one's gone better. Will anyone ever score six? I mean, Haaland would be a good shout for that, I would have thought. If they really won it and he's kept on for the whole game against a struggling team who they score early against. Just on Aguero, I was going to say before, I think he was, he slightly was also a, I don't want to say victim, that's far too strong a word. But I think a similar dynamic emerged when he was, you know, the Manchester City main striker, both because of all the Man City stuff, but also he was just so ruthlessly effective and good. And there wasn't really a story about him.

45:41It was kind of just like strikers, amazing, scores lots of goals. I mean, he scored two on his debut and kind of never looked back. And Haaland's been a bit the same. Like we want an up and down. We want a narrative. And these guys who are just like so ruthlessly efficient, it's kind of like, yeah, we just get sort of numb to it. Everyone's so good at Man City. You kind of, it becomes less remarkable when the striker's so exceptional as well, perhaps a bit of that. Anyway, there you go. That's a bit of on this day. Let's get back to this week. And Tuesday night in the Champions League, a night of drama in Lisbon.

46:13Benfica, as we mentioned, were playing Carabag, who'd never won a Champions League game before. Benfica went 2-0 up inside the first 20 minutes, but then completely lost their heads as the horsemen came storming back to win 3-2 in the early hours of Wednesday morning. Then Benfica manager Bruno Large was dismissed by Thursday. Word came that Benfica had appointed Jose Mourinho to be the new man in charge. It's a Mourinhovation at the Stadio de Luz. That works, Jack. You can run with that. Yeah, just about. Will it work? In a sense, who cares? I mean, we can touch on that in a second. But first of all, let's just salute what has to be, I think, the most narrative-laden sporting decision in the history of football.

46:59First of all, it was Benfica who were Mourinho's first job in football, and they let him go after 11 matches because they thought another man would do better, a new president came in and thought another manager would do better, only to see Mourinho go up the coast and produce two seasons of miracle results with Porto, the Champions League, the treble, all that stuff. It was also Benfica that got Mourinho fired at Fenerbahce just a few weeks ago when they knocked Fenerbahce out of the qualifying round for the Champions League. And he now arrives at Benfica as manager and faces a fixture list that ticks so many narrative boxes.

47:39In Benfica's next Champions League game, they'll be playing who else but Chelsea. They take on Real Madrid as well. That's in January. And in October, straight after that Chelsea game, who else should they be playing but Porto themselves? Crikey. I think they also play Newcastle and obviously there is the Bobby Robson connection there. So it's almost like a greatest hit of Mourinho and his influences. Well, indeed. We talked about Mourinho's time at Porto and how it could have been Benfica, essentially, in a recent Totally Extra that we did on those miraculous two Porto seasons. There are some parallels with what led to his departure then with the change of presidents, with what's been going on at the moment with the Portuguese giants, Jack.

48:28Yes, there's an important political background. Benfica's presidential elections are in a few weeks' time and the incumbent, who is Rui Costa, who are fans of number 10s who wear their socks around their ankles should remember well. He's the incumbent. He's not especially, not universally popular, shall we say. And there's a kind of an upstart candidate who has been, he was at the Manchester derby at the weekend, for example, which some interpreted as a kind of an optics play, suggesting, oh, maybe Amorim might be, a future Benfica manager. As it happens, things move very quickly from that point.

49:11As you said, Laje got fired and then just very quickly this momentum from Mourinho built up and has, you know, that's what's come to pass. I think it's, I think it's great. I really do. Like not just because Mourinho is just good value as a media figure, but I think it's, I think it's a very good move for him in that he is someone who he said in his press conference yesterday people divide his career into two parts the good part and the bad part and he was saying in classic Mourinho fashion I've actually I've been in two European finals in the last five years which yeah fine but I think there is legitimacy to dividing into those two parts but I think beyond the success or lack of that there has been in those two sections there's also i think his more recent steps have lacked an emotional connection a kind of a sense of shared enterprise shared challenge which is what made his porto side great arguably what made his chelsea side great as well and he even you know one of his great skills is to cultivate that feeling of us against the world he even managed at real madrid the most overdog team in the world.

50:31Remarkable stuff. And so I think that really is what has been missing in the latter part of his career. This is a return home in some ways. It's also, you know, Benfica is a funny club. In Portugal, it's kind of almost the default club. It's seen as kind of the establishment club. And yet they haven't had much success in recent years. He's won league title in six. He's had Sporting under Amorim do well. Porto have continued to do well. And so there's this feeling that, like, God, we need to actually get back where we belong. And yesterday in his press conference, he just ticked so many good boxes just, you know, to get the fans G'd up.

51:16And, yeah, I mean, Benfica aren't a great team. They've made a couple of good signings this summer. like Dodi Lukabacchio from Sevilla, who's a good player. And they just got Yohi Sudakov from Shakhtar, who is a very nice number 10. But yeah, I think it will just depend on more, I think, on the kind of emotional connection that Mourinho feels. And he seems really motivated. And yeah, I'm not one of these people who believes that a coach completely loses it. I think there still must be something there. It's just a case of reconnecting with it and it's going to be fun.

51:56Jack Lang: Yeah, I mean, just to pick up what Jack was saying about this being a greatest hits tour, I mean, that is very much what the last few years of Mourinho's coaching career feel like. You know, people in the crowd shouting out, you win some trophies, you know, do what you used to do. And Mourinho's saying, I don't do that anymore. You know, I'm giving you late here, Mourinho. I've moved into a different phase. It's not about winning trophies and influencing football. It's about creating absurd conspiracy theories and trying to hand referees into retirement. And yeah, obviously glad to see him back.

52:25Jack Lang: What a character. We touched on this in that totally extra we did. And it's a question that clearly has occupied a lot of finer minds than mine. What's happened to Mourinho? Is it tactical? Is it something else? I think part of it, when you talk about connection, the connection you build up with emotionally with your players, part of it is the fact that he's not young anymore. And I think the other thing that people point to a lot is what happened at Real Madrid, where there clearly wasn't connection with some players, but there was also a manager that was better than him. And to what extent that got into Jose's head, I don't know, because he was so in love with himself, and that kind of fed into everything.

53:02And once he met a manager who was actually better than him, I wondered to what extent that made him look for other people who were to blame. And that changed that. I don't know. I'm being a bit pop psychologist here. I also think it's hard if you've had incredible success to understand how those methods no longer work quite so well. And you saw a similar thing with Arsene Wenger, who I think of him and Mourinho quite obviously polar opposite in style and everything like that. But similar in their kind of decline because they had this incredible success early on. Everything, it always worked for them, really, apart from some bumps in the road.

53:37And then to actually be able to say, OK, like this isn't working. I need to change rather than being like, no, my methods are great. They're the problem. And that's what separates the absolute best. Someone like Sir Alex Ferguson, who people underestimate how adaptable he was, how much he changed his tactics, that sort of thing. He wasn't a kind of ideologue in lots of ways. And I would say Pep as well has that ability to adapt and evolve. Like he's not above saying, OK, we're going to be a bit more direct. We're going to bring in an Erling Haaland having the previous season won the league with a false nine and obviously popularize the false nine with Messi.

54:12So I think that's a big factor for him. And, you know, like it's fairly typical. I think generally managers, they only have so long at the absolute top. I don't think his if you map his sort of period of success against the relative decline, I don't think it's that unusual. um but yeah I was saying yesterday about this kind of this idea that he's so glorious and entertaining and box office and I think that's a very reflex reaction to Jose and I I don't know I just feel it's a little bit like when film studios do like another remake of a film they've already remade a few years ago or you know it's kind of greatest hits is a really apt term it's like do you want to see new music or do you want to see the Rolling Stones again but they're kind of a faded version of what they were like is this so interesting like i guess it is we'll hear stories we've heard many times before probably in the lead up to all of those games you know what i mean like how much more is there to say about jose's time at chelsea i guess we'll find out no but him going back to benfica where it all began and then where that yeah that yeah that jose

55:15Jack Lang: Jose Mourinho, seven. This time it's personal. Yeah, it kind of has that feel. It is an amazing career he's had, whatever happens with Benfica. 26 major trophies managed all over the place, won the Champions League with two different clubs. Jack, the team that he's taking over at Benfica, are they any good? They're OK. With Benfica, there's always quite a lot of churn. And I think maybe the kind of successful modern era was built on very successful recruitment and selling. You know, you think back to the David Luiz, Jameez, plucking a player out of South America, signing for five million and selling him for 45 million nine months later.

56:02There is still the odd example of that. I mean, like Enzo Fernandez is a great example, was there for, you know, just a few months. but in general I think this is possibly a broader point so I'll make it quickly but Portuguese football and those kind of intermediate leagues have suffered from the Premier League and La Liga to some extent now being a more willing to just go actually you know what we'll just sign them from Brazil we'll just go to Argentina and buy this guy when he's 17 and he can come out when he's 18 so those kind of the classic stepping stone leagues and Portugal is probably the most prominent example of that category uh i think have have suffered so you actually look at the the squad it's not you know it's no longer peppered with people you think oh my god this guy is going to be amazing in two years in the premier league it's not quite that so i think it's it's difficult and then within the portuguese ecosystem yeah i think kind of they've been chaotic for a while compared to, you know, sporting had a period of relative stability under Amarim.

57:13Well, they didn't think much of Porto's score when he took that over in 2002. And look what he did with them. So, hey, we'll follow that with interest, I think. Probably even Charlie, although he doesn't want to admit it. Good. That almost wraps it up for this edition of Totally Football Show, a.k.a. Totally Extra. except we still need to find out who your most famous celebrity encounters not of the sporting variety are. Charlie? God, yeah, sorry. Forgot. I had another, yeah, sort of forgot. Had another tennis player. And I will do it just because I did actually get to hang out with him and that's Roger Federer who I've both interviewed and then been at a kind of black tie do with.

57:56And just, he was just everything you'd imagine. just like just unbelievably self-assured the vibe of the guy just like the charisma oozing off him like you know you know those incredibly famous people who have to say so the bar is so low they have to say so little and even off that you're kind of like wow what a guy like what a what a great down-to-earth bloke for literally saying like hi how you doing and pretending like he knew who i was so yeah that would be well magnificent charlie's still buzzing from that tom yeah i

58:28Jack Lang: Honestly, all of them are kind of sport-related and therefore work-related. Yeah, footballers and occasional tennis players. And yeah, there's no one who comes to mind. You never bumped into someone at the supermarket? My Bill Murray was on the street, although I did get to spend a weekend in Florence with Elvis Costello, which was, you know, it was work-related, but, you know, still. I feel like the second that we end the pod, I suddenly remember a flood, a flood of celebrity encounters. So I'll watch that for you, James. if anyone comes to mind. L 'Esprit de l 'Escalier, don't they call it, Tom?

59:02Yes, well, in some ways, indeed. Jack? The best one I can think of was as probably a 10-year-old boy in Cornwall. I walked out of a Chinese restaurant in the small village of Grand Pound and was confronted with Chris Eubank, who gave me a very nice pat on the shoulder and said, have a good evening, have a good evening.

59:28Jack Lang: does not get better than that come on very nice very nice and there'll be more as soon as we wrap up this show from Tom so let's do that we're back on Sunday live 7.30 on YouTube or with you Monday morning with a podcast version and then throughout the week of course I hope you've enjoyed the show many many thanks to Charlie to Tom to Jack to producer Jesse and a bit of producer Charlie as well and we'll catch up with you soon listener for now from all of us here it's goodbye

1:00:01Jack Lang: you've been listening to the totally football show part of the athletic fc podcast network for more great podcasts just like this one including the athletic fc and our dedicated club podcasts search for the athletic on apple spotify and all the usual places we're also at the totally football show on insta and at the totally show on youtube the totally football show is an athletic media company production

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