Real lose again, Arsenal stay perfect + it’s Sunderland v Newcastle!

0:00The Athletic FC

0:30combat a whole new meaning. We preview that, look ahead to the Palace City FA Cup rematch and delight in the fact that Brentford Leeds is Super Sunday. It's all in this Totally Football Show.

0:45Thursday the 11th of December and on the Totally Football Show today, hello Jay Harris. Hey James. Nice to see you. Jack Lang's also here with us. Jack, you're all good? Yeah, nice to see me too I guess. It is nice to see you You were busy texting or adjusting yourself I don't know, I was just checking in I hadn't started prematurely It is nice to see you though You too James It's nice to see you Mark Carey Thank you James, same to you Thank you very much Two weeks to Christmas If you're struggling for present ideas Anybody How about this? Tickets to the Toley Football Show Live on Monday 23rd of March bet they don't have those already there's not many in circulation uh left anyway uh this is for the the leicester square theater and you can be present on the 23rd of march if you get down to leicestersquaretheater.com for details or click on the link in the episode description but hurry uh jay you've got another christmas present idea haven't you and a left field one Yeah, I was just scrolling Twitter a minute ago, and QPR are putting up for auction the shirt that they printed for Peter Olemvingi on that famous transfer that never happened back in the day.

2:02I mean, that's a pretty cool Christmas gift. Wow. That was the time when he drove down. Yeah, I think that's when he was caught on Sky Sports News, wasn't he, and saying they wouldn't let me join. They wouldn't let him in the car park or something like that. Yeah, that iconic deadline day moment. With the greatest of respect, who would bid on it? Because QPR fans would want it? No, would QPR fans want it? Would Oddenwingy fans want it? I think if you were housing a football museum, that's certainly one place. I mean, it's a great talking piece, isn't it? You could put that on the wall and say, Oddenwingy, did he bid for QPR?

2:38Yeah, exactly. Well, there's a story behind that. It would definitely go to a YouTuber though, wouldn't it? That's a good point. It would fit nicely on that wall over there. Just saying, Producer Charlie. Anyway, how do we bid on that, Che? I think QPR have set up a special auction website. I wonder if you can actually see if it's started the bidding yet. All right, well, let us know. In the meantime, this midweek, Champions League league phase. F*** me, there's another two more rounds of this. That's for Geordie Penner. Geordie writes in saying the ongoing snobbery about the Champions League format is exhausting.

3:18the group phase wasn't working exclamation mark if you don't like it try and identify a better format than both this and the previous format all right geordie well i quite like the previous format i don't know who says the group phase wasn't working better system would be straight to knockouts because this one's only going to get good and the last one only really got good when you got to the knockout so why don't we just go straight to the knockouts and and also ongoing snobbery just because I've got a different opinion about it. I mean, is it just me about this whole league phase? This week was the sixth round.

3:54So Tuesday and Wednesday, we would have had the big denouement of the group phase. All the narratives, the stories that have been building up over those six weeks, those little rivalries of four teams in a group together, and then teams crashing out or qualifying in dramatic circumstances. Sure, a few duds in there too, but still, what a payoff that would have happened instead nothing has yet been decided we've been through six rounds nothing's actually even when we get to the end of eight rounds you'll only lose 12 of the 36 teams and 24 will go through i mean yeah is it just me no okay completely agree with all of that and it's not just the the length of it has been discussed so you know it goes into the new year it's eight matches as you said the lack of repeat fixtures but it's also just it's the shapelessness of it such a big list of teams it's just you don't look at it and discover anything like i i barely look at that table right really until maybe penultimate round because it doesn't mean nothing because like all the teams are separated by so little there's so little at stake obviously a few are failing down at the bottom but there's a reason that leagues aren't organized with that many teams it's just too many teams yeah i think it's the structure of kind of the peril of the old format as well where it's okay well they may be lost in their away game but actually when they have the return not return leg but return game in the group phase and they might be able to leapfrog them to snatch second whatever it may be but if every game is different you'll be like okay well they lost that one but that is now completely put to one side and now they're playing Bodo Glimt as another team and you don't know what's going to sort of happen next yeah that was the first one that came to mind and I was thinking of last night where Erling Haaland said that they've got Bodo Glimt next Manchester City they've got Galatasaray and Bodo Glimp as their final two games but it is just that where it's like well they've gone from playing such a difficult game against Real Madrid in terms of Manchester City and then there's other games that are far more easy you just can't quite get a gauge on the table because it's just it's so kind of heterogeneous I'd be curious to know how it's affecting the audience because I mean purely kind of very small sample side kind of from acquaintances the level of commitment to there's still a little about that muscle memory.

6:07Oh, it's Champions League. Got to watch Champions League. But I see that kind of disappearing. Anyway, there you go. I know we're probably not going to go back to knockout football. And I was quite happy with the group stage anyway, but I don't know. Here we are for the moment. There have been other innovations in the past, the double group stage, for example, which they thought better of eventually. So maybe they will reconsider. Jay, anything you want to add or should we get on to the results? I can add something on Odden Vinge if you want. At the starting price was£275. There have been four bids and it's currently at£375.

6:40What do you think, Producer Charlie? Producer Charlie just nodded. I reckon that would look amazing. Of course, we'd need to add other curiosity shirts. It's time to, you know, dress the set. All right. Very good. Anyway, in the extremely crucial Champions League Matchday 6 results, Wednesday, Arsenal made it six wins from six. 3-0, they won at Club Bruges. Maduecki with a lovely brace. Still only one goal conceded by the Gunners in those six encounters. Man City, meanwhile, with the big result of Wednesday evening. They were 2-1 winners at Real Madrid. That's two wins in eight games now for Xavi Alonso's side.

7:19The manager under pressure, of course, as we discussed in the build-up to the game. But both teams still on course to finish top eight. Newcastle climbed to 12th with a 2-2 draw away to Leverkusen although they would have been doing a lot better before Alex Grimaldi's late equaliser elsewhere the early games were a bit mad you had Copenhagen going to Villarreal and in a half-empty ceramica possibly a nod to disinterest they came from behind to win 3-2 did Copenhagen Villarreal third in La Liga right now but 35th in the Champions League with one point from six matches. Meanwhile, Ajax went to Carabag and an absolute torrential downpour came from behind twice to win 4-2.

8:05Ajax, who'd only scored one goal and hadn't picked up a single point in their five previous encounters in this tournament. Anyway, the other eight o 'clock, there were no goals for Athletic Club and holders PSG at San Mames. Unai Simon, the athletic goalkeeper, the hero for the hosts. That's PSG's first nil-nil in the Champions League in over 10 years. It was a big win for Jose Mourinho's Benfica, who put two past Antonio Conte's Napoli. Back-to-back wins for the Eagles, who are now just a point off the play-off places. Juventus eventually beat Paphos 2-0. Weston McKinney with a lovely goal, and then Jonathan David late on.

8:43And it was 2-2 for Dortmund against Mark Kerry's Bodo Glimt. The Danes battling back twice at the signal Aduna to take a point. with two rounds then to go quick check on the standings Bodo glimpsed in 32nd place fully three points off the playoff positions up at the top Arsenal are the only side that looks certain of an automatic qualification they are 18 points from 18 Bayern a second three points behind the Gunners PSG, Man City, Atalanta Inter, Real Madrid and Atletico are currently the rest of the top eight but we're just three points separating Paris Saint-Germain in third and Barcelona in 15th, or equally three points between Inter in sixth and Leverkusen in tenth.

9:33Who knows who's going to be finishing where, really? More coming up in January. Where do you want to start? Bernabeu, Mark? Bernabeu, yeah. All right, Jack, you were writing about this. You're up next. This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC podcast network.

10:03Yes indeed, 2-1, Man City winning at Real Madrid. Jack, you were all over this game. These two teams have given us some bangers in recent years. How was this one? And is Xavi going to lose his job over it? Not sure about Alonso. I think there was enough there for Madrid to prolong his agony, perhaps, for a few more weeks. They were a lot better than they have been in recent league games. I thought they started really well. There was a lot of intent to their play, obviously, without Guillaume Mbappe, who was injured. Also, he did a military, amongst other people. Yeah, Dean Hoyssen, Ardegula was only on the bench.

10:46so it was a kind of a rotated Madrid team. But they had Gonzalo Garcia up front. He wasn't really on my radar before the Club World Cup in the summer, but he did really well in that tournament. Very kind of muscular, hard-running striker. And he actually seemed to be a decent fit for Vinicius and Rodrigo, kind of creating space for them. He's a quite unselfish player. And in the early stages, it looked really good for them. Rodrigo looked sparky. Vinicius thought he had a penalty when he kind of did a nice little jink past Matheus Nunez, but it was just outside the box. Rodrigo then scored and Madrid are kind of, you know, we're actually OK here.

11:29And then gradually City just kind of eased their way back into it. Didn't play with enormous fluency. Phil Foden was pretty quiet and there wasn't the kind of pinging around through the midfield as much. But on the wings, City kind of gradually grabbed control back and scored twice before halftime. And the second half was, I mean, Madrid huffed and puffed. And there was a big chance for Jude Bellingham, who kind of went for the very artful lob over the goalkeeper and put it wide. But apart from that... Put it over now. I think over and wide, let's say. Over and wide, yeah. Kind of worst of both worlds.

12:08But yeah, I think City were probably on balance deserved winners without really hitting top gears. Yeah, I mean the Spanish press broadly seemed happy with it. They felt that essentially two defensive errors had undone a good start with Rodrigo getting his first goal in 32, well 33 matches actually, 32 games scoreless run. But that was the only actual shot they had on target as you say due to missing his big opportunity. Hendrick with a header later on that hit the crossbar. And Vinicius had that chance at the back post, sort of volleyed which he probably should have done better with. balance slightly off balance i'd say maybe you should have hit there and a free header about five minutes before that um a really nice ball by carreras who was really good for madrid avaro carreras really reminds me a lot i wrote in the um in the live blog of felipe luiz the kind of old now the flamengo manager but the former atletico madrid very briefly of chelsea left back in that kind of not really powerful not particularly fast but just so technically correct and makes good decisions the whole time.

13:11He had a good game, even in defeat. On Rodrigo as well, I know that it's his first goal for quite some time, but he absolutely loves the Champions League. And I looked at it in terms of the numbers of goals that he's scored since the start of the 21-22 season. Only Harry Kane, Vinicius Junior, Robert Lewandowski, Erling Haaland and Kylian Mbappe, big names, have scored more than him in the Champions League. 21 goals that he's scored, which, as I say, he's not been in the team loads, there's been controversy if you like as to him being in the squad, in the team, whether or not he'd go in the summer but actually he has shown that he steps up in the Champions League.

13:49I think he's got five goals against Manchester City specifically as well. There was quite a few famous ones late on as well in seasons gone by but he must have loads of confidence against City in the Champions League and it proved that with a really well taken goal actually. Really good from a sharp angle. City then with a 2-1 win. Celta Vigo of course won 2-0. at the Bernabeu just a few days before. That is two wins in eight matches in all competitions for Real Madrid. But lots of players making positive noises about the manager, Jude Bellingham, saying we'll have to take the s*** on the chin.

14:20As they say, he adds, as they say afterwards, Real Madrid have Monaco at home and then Benfica away to finish off against Mourinho. What a way to finish off. But as I say, they're in seventh spot. still in line for that automatic place. City, meanwhile, are away to your Bodo Glimt, Mark, before Galatasaray, as Erling Haaland was hinting, and Palace before any of that at the weekend. What's up with Pep's no-rotation policy? He likes to have quite a settled side, doesn't he? I mean, previously he never did. He was famous for it. But Wednesday night, he named an unchanged Tiding XI for the fifth time this season.

15:03That's as many as done in the previous seven campaigns combined, which is quite a turnaround. Yeah. Sorry, I should clarify that he doesn't tend to make changes within the game. Okay. Because he likes to sort of wait to see how the team will kind of fix any issue or overcome any issue. But yeah, he's clearly found a winning formula as much as anything. I know that they've had a couple of setbacks, if you like, but I think I heard Bernardo Silva saying about how the progress will sort of take a bit of time to get back to where they were. and I think people are expecting them just to be fully back to the all-title winning team that they were in seasons gone by.

15:38But I think it is a bit more of a slow progress. And now that he's found a system and a formation that works, especially with Doku and Nico O 'Reilly rotating and combining so well on that left-hand side and having the full-backs pushing on, staying wide and allowing more of the wide attackers to come inside and congest the centre of the field as well. it just seems to be working really well at the moment be interesting i know we'll come on to it later in terms of they're playing crystal palace at the weekend crystal palace will condense that central space quite a lot at the weekend so will they then try and have an antidote to that as well we'll see but it seems like because it's simply working at this stage of the season just keep doing what you're doing four straight wins and a great way to bounce back from the bar leverkusen defeat jack yeah just to build on what mark said i wonder if it's he now has a slightly more stratified squad than he did before.

16:28So like the options that he used to have, you know, on the left, he also had Jack Grealish, he had Gundogan right for one of those positions in the middle, Kovacic obviously being injured a lot. But there seems to be a kind of more of a hierarchy now. So Savino at the moment, at least, is just the second choice winger. And, you know, Nico Gonzalez is playing, but he is the second choice defensive midfielder, which, I mean, personally, this is maybe one of my old football men opinions but I like that clarity I like my manager to know this is my first choice 11 you lot are backups you can put pressure on the first team but actually having a broadly defined starting 11 is really a good thing take me back to the 50s it's consistency I agree and players get used to each other's patterns and yeah, I think it's well done to Pep.

17:26I'm sure he was waiting for my approval. Booze, meanwhile, for Mikel Arteta who went and made five changes to his line-up for Arsenal's trip to Belgium where they beat Club Bruges 3-0. Club Bruges had a decent record at home and famously given Barcelona a bit of a go in that 3-3 draw. Not too long ago. Jay, you watched this game the five changes, some of them which were enforced by Durian Timber and Declan Rice not being available. Christian Norgard coming in. Victor Jokeres up front and Gabriel Jesus making his return for Jokeres after almost a year. I guess we should start, though, with Noni Medowiecki.

18:07Yeah, it was an excellent goal, his first one, where he picks up the ball just inside Bruges' half, shrugs off a couple of challenges and just smashes it in the top right corner. But I'm not trying to be edgy here. But I'd argue that Arteta is probably happier with the second goal because the first goal is an incredible piece of individual brilliance, right? But the second goal is about being a winger, attacking the back post. And I can't recall Maduweke doing that that often at Chelsea. He was very much someone who beat his man and whipped across into the box. But are you going to be someone who attacks it on the other side?

18:40And Kaya, who also works for Tifo, the athletic, sort of made the point that Arteta was very good at doing that with Raheem Sterling, making sure he attacked the back post and maybe that's what he's doing with Madueke. So I thought that was an interesting thing to point out. Martijnetti scores a fantastic goal as well. I think he's the first player in Arsenal history to score five goals in five Champions League games in a row. But I think the main talking point is probably Gabriel Jesus coming back after 11 months out with, I think it was an ACL, because he is just such a unique forward. He offers them something completely differently to Victor Jokeres, who's the battering ram.

19:17I think Jesus had more touches and had the same amount of shots as Jokeres, even though he replaced him in the 60-second minute. He hit the crossbar, and he's just such an intelligent player, the way he pulls opposition defenders out of position. I think Martinelli, before the game, was raving about him as well and talking about the impact that he has and the spaces he creates for other players. So for Arsenal fans, we're sure they're buzzing to see him back when so many other players are getting injured. I was just going to say about Noni Madueke, I've spoken to his individual striker coach a good few months ago now and just how much he is looking to improve upon his goalscoring.

19:54I mean, the one in the top corner, as you say, individual brilliance, but that's not necessarily by chance, that's by design. He's been working on the actual striking of the ball itself, but as you say, getting into the positions as well. And he's clearly doing work outside of the Arsenal training ground to make sure that he's getting those numbers. And again, from speaking to his coach, which is in the modern day, you can have someone who looks a good flair player, maybe a good highlights reel. But now it is, which helps me in my job. It's all about the numbers. It is making sure that you have that output, especially when he's looking to put pressure on Pakai Osaka.

20:25He needs to, every time he gets back into the team, score or assist. And the fact that he's done that, it shows that it's a testament to his work. Probably a big moment for Madweke as well, because I know it wasn't his first Arsenal goal, but he had sort of that decent start to the season, then he got injured. and he is up against a sensational player in Saka who's come through Arsenal's academy. I didn't think Madweke played particularly well against Chelsea. I think there was probably an element of, I want to prove too much of a point against my former team here. So for him to get his second and third goals and do it in that manner and really hopefully kick on after this, I think will be big for him.

20:59Nice performance in general for Arsenal after one or two doubts creeping in in recent weeks and just stellar performance in this tournament with, as I mentioned, just one goal conceded. Also another teenager coming up for his senior debut. Marley Salmon, 16 years old. He joined Arsenal when he was nine. I did feel a bit bad for him that his first touch was to take a throw in. I don't know why. I just felt like that was a bit of an unglamorous thing to do. But, I mean, Arsenal's hairland academy has produced so many good players over the years. I'm sure he's one to keep an eye on. But I actually didn't think Arsenal were perfect in this game.

21:34And the timing of Madweke's second goal was really, really crucial. Because as you mentioned, Rice was missing, Timber was missing, Norgard played at centre-back. And I think Norgard had played at centre-back before for Brentford in the Championship, but back when they were playing a 3-5-2. So it was very different to something going to a back four. And just before half-time, Raya made quite a few saves from Stankovic, Vanekin. Stankovic, who is the son of Dejan Stankovic, I believe. Nice little bit of UCL heritage going on right there. but you could sort of sense that if they'd got a goal the momentum of the game really would have shifted and Maduweke scoring just right after half time sort of just calmed things down a little bit Excellent Marley Salmon by the way only the third English player aged 16 or younger to feature in the Champions League the other two have both been four Arsenal of course Jack Wilshere and more recently Max Dowman who was what age when he started Jay?

22:3015 I think he's 16 on New Year's Eve Crazy no? let's not even talk about how wild that is yeah he won't be playing again for a month or two though I believe so yeah so we should probably point out that Jesus was added to Arsenal's Champions League squad and Dalman was taken out because I believe he has ankle ligament injury so will be out for a couple of months okay there you go the other English side in Champions League action Wednesday night was Newcastle who went to Bayer Leverkusen we'll talk about that next

23:05This is the Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. The Athletic is the only place you can read articles by Daniel Taylor, Amy Lawrence, Phil Hay, James Pearce, Olly Kaye and the very best football writers around. Yeah, 2-2 draw for the Magpies away at the Bayerina. Storming game, Mark Carey. Should Newcastle be happy at the end of the day to take a point? Maybe if you sort of think historically about where Newcastle have been, maybe I'm thinking too broad brushstroke, but to be disappointed with a draw against a team or a club who was invincible only a couple of seasons ago, you should be pleased with that.

23:46I think it was the context with which they did concede the second goal. It just looked like they were just dropping deeper and deeper. They're a little bit tired. There was a little bit too much space. It was a really well-worked goal, if you want to say that as well. Alex Grimaldo with a bit of a dummy step over allowed it to to run through and then received it to finish with his right foot on the right side of the pitch and he is very very left footed I don't know why he was there but it was it was a really well worked goal and I think that it was a frustration in that regard yeah I think watching the interviews after Eddie Howe was just just as frustrated with the fact that they conceded from a set piece as well he said how much they'd worked on that in in the week and have been for for quite some time now I think it was a sixth set piece goal that they've conceded in all competitions this season, which is frustrating.

24:30It's not the worst of any English side, at least. But when you've worked on it all week, and it is the first goal you concede, and how much set pieces do just open up the game, especially in tight contests like the Champions League, you can see why he was annoyed. But they did come back into it. And I suppose that's, again, why it's frustrating again, because they came back into it, got 2-1 and up, and then threw it away. Although, I mean, that was a pretty fortunate penalty, wasn't it? Yeah, I want to ask Jay about this because it was, you know why, because it was Nick Valdemar who closed down Mark Flecken.

25:00And a great replay after the goal where you can see Flecken standing there and a little bit like a shark's fin approaching in the ocean. Valdemar is in the distance. He curves his run. It was like that little sticker you see on car rear mirrors, like objects in the mirror, maybe bigger than their pitch. Biggest bloke on the pitch. And he's like, Flecken's like, oh yeah, I'm not sure I can absolutely survive. But I mean, yeah, you know what I'm going to ask, Jay. But he never has been completely flawless on the ball and in his goalkeeping from a handling perspective. But has Flecken got that in him to do that in his career?

25:36Put it this way, when he left Brentford in the summer, not many Brentford fans were upset. And he was their first-choice goalkeeper. But there was always this sense that he was quite error-prone. But it tended to be more of his positioning with shots, less so his actual ability on the ball. I thought he sometimes took a couple of risks, but that's sort of how he was encouraged to play. But when I saw what he'd done, I wasn't even remotely surprised. He's just like that. He's never quite got rid of this reputation where, I'm trying to get it right, but he conceded a really silly goal once where I think someone passed it back to him and he missed it.

26:12And he's sort of struggled to ever... Is this when he's in the Bundesliga? Yes. You know the guy I'm on about. Yeah, it went quite viral, that. but I think this is the thing he's got a mistake in and maybe it's a lapse in concentration for whatever reason but it did it's even worse yeah I'd encourage people to watch it he was taking a drink when the opposition team were on the attack yeah and then he falls into the goal doesn't he yeah I'd encourage people to watch it he's not even looking yeah that's great so that's cheer J up anyway the thing is though I'm not sure it was a penalty no I don't think Yeah, I mean, he panics and goes down, but not a great deal of contact, I don't think.

26:55So Valdemar approaches, Flecken begins to realise the danger and starts to try and dribble his way out of trouble. Valdemar is alongside, Flecken puts a hand on him, Valdemar goes down and the referee blows. I don't know. Anyway, yes, given that, given the fact that Newcastle were pretty rubbish in the first half as well, You could be happy with the point. A lot of Newcastle fans, I think, frustrated as their manager is about the set pieces, but also this tendency to sit back when they have a lead and the way that usually counts against them, the number of points they've dropped, the number of goals they've conceded late on in games.

27:33And this weekend when they take on Sunderland, a team who are all about scoring late goals, that's a concern. Yeah, I looked at it and Chris Woff's piece this morning came out and said that it was, I think it's 10 times after the 75th, 76th minute that Newcastle have conceded, which is far too many considering we're midway through December. They do tend to concede goals late. Sometimes they're not always equalisers or goals to lose the game. The Burnley goal was an example of that from the weekend. But it's, yeah, it's a problem. And I think Anthony Gordon said as much, we need to just make sure that we're, I think it's maybe a concentration thing, a mentality thing rather than necessarily that their legs are really tired.

28:12but yeah they do need to look out for that at the weekend thinking about the weekend as well Joe Linton came off last night so it will be Lewis Miley who scored the well at the time it was a goal to put them ahead it looks like he'll probably be the one to to come in which is a shame really because like the Joe Linton, René Guimaraes and Sandro Sonali trio is just so so strong and it would have been good to really see them in the the derby at the weekend but Miley looks like he'll probably be the ones come in. We'll talk about the game at the Stadium of Light a little bit later on but from the other 8pm, is anything leap out?

28:47Anything else you want to talk about? A huge win for Benfica as we mentioned. Napoli looks so poor. They're now in 23rd spot. That was their fifth straight away defeat in the Champions League. Conte's side but Conte is famous for his defensive organisations. They were bewilderingly bad at the back there at Copenhagen next time out. Copenhagen had that great result away at Villarreal. Jay, anything else that you want to celebrate or Mark? Juventus beating Paphos 2-0. Going into the game they had exactly the same number of points. They had the same record of wins, draws and losses. So I would have liked to have seen even something like a draw for Paphos just to stay in the conversation.

29:31I think it was about 70-80 minutes before Juve finally broke the deadlock and the whistles were deafening at half-time Spalletti who's I mean goal scoring has been the issue all season for Juventus and Spalletti was giving one or two of the less used players a run out in this game but made changes at half time and eventually paid off a wonderful goal to open things up by Weston McKinney and then Jonathan David who really needed a goal with the second Jay mentioned Champions League heritage that was Champions League heritage not the finish by David but David Luiz making a challenge in the opposition half and doing this forlorn 40 yard you know he's getting on a bit 40 yard run back like the dictionary definition of bedraggled just absolute magic loving it excellent and Bodo Glimp coming from behind twice to get the draw against Dortmund who are going to be Spurs' next opponents in a month's time yes and crucially Micky van der Ven is suspended for that game he is indeed alright those two early games were pretty fun as well.

30:37Were you watching either of those? The Villarreal Copenhagen or Carabag Ajax? Quite a niche choice but one that rewarded the intrepid viewer. I only caught a glimpse of it but the Carabag game, that stadium there's just something about it like it's just the incline of the stands plus the running track and obviously it was hammering it down with rain. It looked so 1980s in a way that I love and obviously Ajax playing well for once. Right, rediscovering their 80s form. There you go, 4-2 win for a team that was rock bottom coming into this, but has now leapt up to 34th spot out of 36. And they're not out of the running.

31:17They're only four points off the playoffs with six steals to play for. Anyway, moving on then. Premier League matchday 16 awaits. Let's get on to that next.

31:36This is the Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. Premier League matchday 16, Arsenal are now two points clear at the top of the table. But on the plus side, they host Wolves on Saturday evening. Wolves, who are now 13 points from safety. Second place, Man City face a trip to Palace, who are five points behind them in fourth. That's one of four games being played Sunday lunchtime, or at least two o 'clock. The others being third-place Villa, who are themselves only three points behind Arsenal. They'll be at West Ham in the David Cameron Confusion Classico. Forest, who are just too clear of the bottom three, host Spurs.

32:16And there's the Tine, or Weird Tine Derby. Sunderland in ninth spot, hosting Newcastle, who are one point and three places below them. Also this weekend, Chelsea take on Everton. That's fifth, the seventh. Liverpool Brighton is Saturday at three o 'clock and with a strangely comforting sounding Burnley Fulham at tea time the late Sunday afternoon game is Mark Brentford leads stretching that Super Sunday tag just a little for you especially in the context of especially in the context of last weekend last weekend was Crystal Palace Fulham good game by all accounts wonderful Harry Wilson goal yeah that was worth it for that goal alone but two in a row where it's not Jay Brentford Brentford Leeds.

33:02As much as I have a soft spot for Brentford, it's not a Super Sunday fixture. The Super Sunday fixture should be Sunderland and Newcastle, no? So they should have flipped those times around. Is there something with the timing where that sort of derby needs to be earlier in the day? Oh yeah, very possibly. We are setting our expectations low for Brentford Leeds, but that means that we'll probably be rewarded with a good game. Almost certainly. Man United-Bourmouth, meanwhile, is a Monday night match-up. it is the tightest race for Europe ever I read this morning only four points separating Palace in fourth and Newcastle in 12th place we saw that a little bit with Man United last week who I think were down around about 12th and then suddenly leapt up with one win to 6th it's also this the last Premier League weekend before players head off to AFCON we don't know exactly which players yet because the deadline for submitting squads for the Cup of Nations is actually today, as we record, Thursday.

33:59Well, Jay, you're also heading off to Morocco. Yes. Who else is? Which teams are going to be most affected? Man United will probably be the most affected because it's three of their most important players. It's their right flank, isn't it? Yeah, Mbumo, Ahmad, Amaz Rawi. I don't think Arsenal, Chelsea, Leeds and Newcastle have any. They don't. Everton will lose Njai and Adrissa Ghanagay. Spurs will lose Pape Matassar Sunderland lose four players I think yeah potentially could rise to six as the last few squads get announced but they have currently four players called up well I should actually say because some squads have been announced and what's actually more interesting is who's not been included so for Ivory Coast Simon Odingra who assisted both of the goals when they won the final last year is not in the squad he's not played a lot for Sunderland this year.

34:54But that's quite a big, big statement. Nicola Pepe's not in it. And Wilfred Zaha has been called up for the first time in two years. So that's raised quite a lot of eyebrows. It would be interesting to see if Ola Ayan is included for Nigeria because he's been injured and recovering from handstring surgery. But Nigerian are in a difficult situation because their captain, Trouste Kong, retired from international duty last week. Got a really talented 20-year-old defender called Benjamin Frederick, who is a Brentford player, but is currently on a loan in Belgium. He's out of the tournament with a knee injury.

35:29So if they lose Einer as well, three of their most important defenders are gone. And then who knows what on earth is going on with Cameroon, because to put it politely, Eto 'o is up to some shenanigans. He's tried to sack the manager, Mark Brees. I believe the manager, Mark Brees, is trying to not get sacked. But as it stands at the moment, Andre Anana's not in their team. Zamba and Giesa's not in the team. Abubakar, who's the captain, is not in the team. And Eric Maxim, Chupo-Moing, is not in the squad, which is four of the most senior players for Cameroon and not in the squad is quite remarkable.

36:04Camera confusion, Cameroon confusion. Cameroon confusion, yeah. You're looking forward to it anyway, Jay? Yeah, really looking forward to it. I'm flying out on Boxing Day and I'll be there for the rest of the tournament. I'm going to follow Nigeria quite a lot. You don't go out to Boxing Day, but the players head off after this weekend. Yeah, so I should say that Simon Hughes for the Athletic will be out there for the beginning of the tournament. He'll be out there for the first week. Obviously, the glory hunter and I go out for the knockout stages. No, I'll be there for the Nigeria's second group stage game, which is against Tunisia.

36:36Okay, when does the tournament start? Sunday the 21st, Morocco versus Comoros. Gotcha. Okay. Well, the Premier League anyway, this final round before those players head over there, sees up at the top of the table the three teams within a win of each other. Arsenal have the easiest-looking game at home to Wolves, 8 o 'clock Saturday. The other two games, tricky, Villa at West Ham and Man City, particularly at Crystal Palace, that FA Cup rematch. Pep Guardiola's never lost at Selhurst Park. Do you fancy the Eagles' chances of changing that? I would never bet against them. They always seem to raise their game for the big games.

37:22I mean, that Guardiola notwithstanding, they've impressed me this year. I think Jeremy Pino has probably been more effective as a replacement than I thought he would be. Saw a bit of him at Villarreal and he was kind of a bit inconsistent. Scored a few goals from the wing, but I think he's done really well and the kind of more central role at Palace. I think he's been really good. I think the loss of Daniel Munoz is massive for them. He is, I think, probably top two, three wingbacks in the league. Really, really good player. And, I mean, I suppose it would be Nathaniel Kline replacing him, and I think that's a huge drop-off for them.

38:09Kline versus Docky. Kline versus Docky, yeah. That has tendonitis written all over it. Yeah, so I'm not sure. City, I mean, City have been good. Shirky, I think we didn't talk about it earlier when talking about the Madrid match, but Shirky has really come to the fore recently, averaging an assist every 18 minutes in Premier League, which is great. And actually, I thought he was, I consumed him, as many of us probably did, through clips of him doing triple step overs and nutmeg compilations. But he's actually a much more measured player than I thought he was. Very kind of positionally smart, knows when to just turn around and play the ball back down the line, the kind of Jack Grealish safety pass.

38:54And he's quite good at that. But yeah, I mean, this could go either way, I suppose I'm saying. It's fourth v. second. Palace did win in the FA Cup final at the end of last season, but they haven't won in the league at home to City since April 2015 when Alan Pardew was one manager and Manuel Pellegrini was the other. Crystal Palace, by the way, are in action this evening in the Conference League. They're at Schoenborn in the Republic of Ireland. Oh, that's the Villa in Switzerland this evening, taking on Basel. That's in the Europa League. Villa, who are the Premier League's form team, nine wins in their last ten Premier League matches ahead of their trip to the Hammers on Sunday.

39:40that's Villa's best run in the top flight in 106 years has it put them in the title picture? has it? I don't think so why not? I don't know I wrote a piece it's come out this morning actually on this and forgive the plug but it is relevant is that the first six games they hadn't won a game and people were saying winless after five oh is it five? yeah they are the first team as you no doubt say in your article in the history of English football of all four top tiers of English League football to be winless after five games and then win nine of the next ten. And they've been very impressive. They're on a really, really good run.

40:17And that game against Arsenal was really gripping because it was just two really, really strong teams just kind of going blow for blow. And obviously the late winner for Villa was arguably deserved by the end. It was a really tightly, closely fought contest. And as I say, they deserve to just edge it. But it's more just the conversation that after five games being winless and everyone's saying is Unai Emery's plan or has the plan gone wrong or is the players really listening to him anymore? And then the narrative changes from a really good run to are they title contenders? I think the truth is probably somewhere in between.

40:51I think they're really, really strong as a team. They have a really realistic chance of getting Champions League football next season. Do not get me wrong that they should beat West Ham. You know, it's a tricky-ish away game where it could be a bit of a banana skin, but I do think they will win this game and continue that run of form. Just the idea of title contention just feels a little bit, just one step too far for me. Clip that one up, producer Charlie. West Ham, who've only lost one of their last six matches under Nuno Espirito Santo. Villa, who are, I think, the number one over-performers on XG, for those who point to that as a likely indication of where the truth lies.

41:32Is it Villa or Spurs? They're right up. In the top two of overperforming on XG, certainly. At both ends of the pitch as well, I think. So it's like you think about in both boxes that the truth, as I mentioned, is probably somewhere in between. The truth is... Well, the truth is the truth, I suppose. But I think the reality is they're probably not entirely contention. Jack, what truth can you tell us about 19-year-old Gremier winger Alisson, who, listener, Villa have agreed a€12 million deal to sign in January? That's quite a, is it a bargain? 12 minutes? He's quite raw. I haven't seen loads of him.

42:08Like style-wise, he's slightly lanky. Very, very left-footed, incredibly left-footed. Likes to kind of jag inside. And yeah, not a kind of pint-sized dribbler, more of a long, bendy-legged dribbler. Okay. Which is quite cool. Yeah. Do you have anyone?

42:31maybe a bit of Esteval a tiny bit in like similar physique not as polished I don't think it's a bit more kind of needs a little bit of work I would say probably reflected in the price but as I say haven't seen loads and loads so prepare to be surprised okay he should be right oh he is arriving in January let's see if they park him somewhere else in the meantime anyway Villa three points behind Arsenal who are a fairly safe bet to stay on top of the table given they're taking on Wolves, who've had eight straight defeats. That's equalling Wolves' worst ever run. They've only scored one goal away from home all season, have Wolves.

43:10It did come in North London, that's Spurs, but their chances of adding to that are the Emirates, but helped by the fact that Arsenal do have absences at the back, but Arsenal have won their last eight meetings with Wolves. So we'll see what happens. and report back on that on Sunday evening. Riccardo Calafiore also suspended, which... It's probably a kind game for Arsenal considering their defensive options at the moment. Fair enough. Let's see how kind it proves that Saturday at 8 o 'clock. Meantime, Sunday at 2 o 'clock, woof, it's the return of one of football's great rivalries after almost a decade, Sunderland hosting Newcastle.

43:49Let's get on to that next.

43:56you're listening to the totally football show with james richards and now we do four times a week keep up to date with us on insta and enjoy us in glorious technicolor on youtube at the totally show

44:24There you go That was 10 years ago The last time we had a weird tie in Derby The Black Cats winning 3-0 In what was Sam Allandise's first game At home in charge of Sunderland. The fixture returns to the Premier League this weekend. The Athletics' Chris Weatherspoon will be there and he joins us now. Hello, Chris. I know they've met recently in the FA Cup, but this game in the league, what's the mood like in town ahead of this match they've been waiting so long for? Well, very different to that FA Cup game, which seems crazy to think was less than two years ago. It was January 2024. And yeah, the clubs were very, they felt like they were in very different places.

45:08I think the mood, actually it's really, it's different to what people anticipated even at the start of the season. The moment Sunderland were promoted in May, I think quite a lot of Newcastle fans thought, oh, that's six points. And I don't think that's the feeling now. There's actually been quite a few people, Newcastle fans have said, oh, I think Sunderland will win. And I think that might be a bit of a coping mechanism, but it does show that actually this fixture's a lot closer than I think anyone anticipated when Sunderland were promoted. You spoke to us in our season preview and gave us your thoughts about Sunderland's season in Prosper.

45:42How stunned are you to see them in ninth place there, three places ahead of Newcastle? Yeah, exactly. And don't get me wrong, I think by the time the season all plays out, that might have proven just to be a temporary lift over Newcastle. But I think regardless of that, yeah, it's been amazing to start the season. And I don't think it's unfair to say pretty much everyone had Sunderland Downers this season's whipping boys. And I think, you know, they came up in the playoffs, which generally makes it hard to stay up anyway. They came up with an incredibly young team who, as we've seen, weren't really fit to play in the Premier League.

46:18That's why they brought in so many players. And obviously the risk when you bring in so many players is they need to gel quickly. And they especially need to gel quickly because someone did have a favourable run of fixtures. So I think they almost had to start well. Otherwise, we'd be sitting here in the middle of a really tough run and wondering where they're going to get any points from. But really, the promising thing has been they've entered this tough run now and they're still picking up results. They beat Chelsea away in the last run. They got a last run at draw to Arsenal. Then they went to Anfield last week and got a point.

46:47So I think in terms of momentum as well, there was a fear that someone would come into this game on the back of playing. They got beat at Manchester City last weekend, but they had City, they had Liverpool, Bournemouth have obviously been doing quite well. They fell off recently, they had Arsenal recently. There was a concern that someone would come into this game on the back of a few defeats and actually they haven't. And so yeah, the anticipation is high, James. I think that's probably the best way to put it. And with that, Chris, how much has the success kind of been down to having a really settled side?

47:18Because I looked into just how much Sunderland have changed their starting line-up this season. And I think only three teams have changed their starting lineup on fewer occasions, if you like. Is it down to having a bit of an understanding with what is a new team and having a bit of consistency across that? I think so, yeah. I think that's been massive. I mean, there have been exclusions to that. I mean, the most expensive new side of us, Javi Diarra, and he's been missing for two months. He may be back on Sunday, we're not sure yet. But yeah, I think mostly they have kept a really settled team.

47:47actually last week's trip to Manchester City quite a lot of Sunland fans wanted both Granit Xhaka and Noah Siddiqui resting because they're currently sat on four yellow cards and there was a very real concern they might rule themselves out of this weekend they came through unscathed and they were actually substituted once the game was gone which hasn't happened before but I think that that was testament to first of all the manager doesn't really like to he doesn't really like to play an occasion. He just wants to take each game as it comes. And the message was always going to be that they were going to do that.

48:21Those two players were going to start. And yeah, they've been really solid. I think that has possibly been the most surprising thing. And that does owe to consistency of selection. It is easier to build a team that can defend in the Premier League than one that can attack and score lots of goals in the Premier League. And so that have really borne that out. Their success has been built on defending well, not conceding that many. And truthfully, going forward, they do still struggle to create chances. But because they've defended so well, they've had that unit who, like you say, have gelled very quickly.

48:55That's where they picked a lot of their points up from. The other thing that Sunderland's season has been built on is their terrific home form in front of an amazing stadium of light crowd. Along with Arsenal, the only two teams unbeaten at home in the Premier League this season, Newcastle, who've won I think two of their last ten on the road have problems away from home Newcastle have problems conceding late goals Sunderland seem to score a lot of them they do look like favourites this weekend Oh James, we can't say that I think maybe in the short term it feels like that I think if we look at where the clubs are where they've come from, I would still say Sunderland should be viewed as underdogs, but there is that feeling and momentum obviously is huge in football and you know that is going to play into it I mean you're exactly right Newcastle conceded late again against Leverkusen this week and the quite literally the theme of Sunderland's year has been till the end in the playoffs they scored three late goals in all three games to get themselves promoted there's now if you were to walk down to the ground across the Wearmouth Bridge there's a nice big mural which pays homage to Dan Ballard's goal in the semi-final and Tommy Watson's goal in the final and yeah they kept it up you know they scored a late winner at Chelsea they scored a late equaliser against Arsenal they scored a late winner at home to Brentford so yeah there's a lot of different factors in play and you're right the home form has been enormous you know the last time Sunland were in the Premier League they exited on a run of home games where they actually ended up going 364 days without winning and now you know they were 2-0 down after 15 minutes against Bournemouth in the last home game and they turn around to win 3-2.

50:35So it really has become a, I love to say the word fortress when they're only seven games in, but it's definitely becoming a venue that other teams no longer see as an easy ride. Chris, how much are you looking forward to Sunday? Oh, not at all. I'll be very happy on Sunday morning. Yeah, that's the thing. It's great to have the occasion back. I will be 100 % honest and say that when Southern played Newcastle two years ago, my view was it almost wasn't a derby anymore you know Newcastle being taken over by one of the richest countries in the world Sonnen very much hadn't and at the time there was probably more of a concern Sonnen would be relegated back to League One than they would get to the Premier League so just for it to feel like an occasion where there's some semblance of parity again is great but in terms of looking forward to the occasion yeah it's a very strange one you know because one of the appeals of this game is there is a bit of an edge to it both in the stands and on the pitch and I think that really appeals to neutrals as well but it does mean that you know you spend kind of the week in the build-up almost dreading it and then you spend the day itself kind of what I've always found on derby days is the game takes forever to arrive and then once it kicks off it's over in a flash and it's very it's very much there is obviously the old adage that form goes out the winner.

51:58I'm not sure how true that is statistically but I can see why people think that. Alright Chris, well best of luck for Sunday. May the best team win and all that. And we look forward to catching up with you again soon. Thanks so much for joining us today. Thanks guys, speak soon. Chris Weatherspoon. Looking forward to that. Sunday, two o 'clock also this weekend. Quick romp through the other games. You've got Chelsea Everton. Everton haven't won at Stamford Bridge since November 1994. Woof. Chelsea this weekend, though, still without Moises Casado, who's serving the last game of his three-match suspension.

52:38So could they? Question mark. Liverpool taking on Brighton. Mo Salah's looking forward to this one. Do you remember he said he's going to enjoy this, whatever happens. His mum will be there. His mum's going to be there. Yeah. Liverpool with a big win midweek away at San Siro. Can they back that up? they've only had two victories in 10 Premier League matches so they're needing one Brighton with a good record at home although they did lose to Villa 4-3 last time out I'll just keep ploughing on do stop me if there's anything you want to say Nottingham Forest who are down in 17th Forest they're at Utrecht on Thursday evening at the Europa League and then Sunday at 2 o 'clock they get a visit from Spurs Jay you were at the 3-0 win over Slavia Prague for Tottenham on Tuesday does that speak to an improvement in Thomas Frank finding his Tottenham?

53:33Definitely, I think the last couple of games and he did sort of touch upon this after the Salavia Prague game can see the team becoming more in sync with each other, gelling together more the biggest thing over the last week is Xavi Simon scoring his first goals for Spurs and it looks like I think Thomas Frank understands seven or eight of his strongest starting XI now and that includes Siemens in the middle, Kudos on the right. Before, Siemens had played out on the left a little bit. They just looked so much better connected. I think at times in the beginning of the season, they were over-reliant on Kudos to produce that wide and just with Siemens playing much better, more confident, everything just looks a little bit smoother.

54:14But interestingly, Thomas Frank doesn't have a good record against Sean Dyche. He's played him six times when he was in charge of Brentford across Dyche's spells with Everton and Burnley and he lost four times and only won once. And a nice little quirky fact to this is that Thomas Frank is quite good friends with Sean Dyche, David Moyes, Roy Hodgson. I think out of all the British managers, they're the ones he spends the most time with outside of matches. What do they do? They've gone to a couple of leadership seminars together. I think I remember talking to Mark about this at the time. So this WhatsApp group is essentially Thomas Frank, Sean Dyche, Roy Hodgson.

54:51Yes. Who was the other one, sorry? David Moyes. David Moyes. Yeah, a better night out with them would be quite fun. Yeah. I mean, Sean Dyche, you know it would be. Yeah, definitely. But I'm just intrigued to see if that still translates to Forrest and Spurs and if Thomas Frank still has a little bit of difficulty breaking Nottingham Forest down. It's also the Morgan Gibbs-White drama. There's an element of that to this as well. But really... Hold up, Ham. What was the Morgan Gibbs-White drama? Where he could have joined Spurs in the summer. Ah, right, yeah. And then thanked Mr. Maranakis who signed the new deal.

55:27But to be honest, I can't look at this game in any other way as it's the what-if game. Because if Hans Postokoglu was still in charge of Forrest, this would have been box office stuff. You know, he would have said something crazy in the pre-match press conference. Win, lose or draw, he would have said something funny after the game. And it's just a little bit of a shame that we didn't get that moment. That's so true, Jay. so true what else do we have this weekend we've got Burnley Fulham Saturday tea time Burnley are in free fall right now they had six defeats in a row they are five points now from safety in penultimate spot Scott Parker taking on Fulham who he previously took down a few years back and Fulham who found a bit more form of late Harry Wilson in particular is that three games in a row he's scored absolute bangers in Harry Wilson's four no you can get it okay there's a field called Harry Wilson's war oh right nice four no that definitely works when did it come out don't feel that's relevant well it's just because you know is that Tom Hanks that one I think so yeah it's our lifetimes guys right well might be your lifetimes not necessarily my lifetime alright here we go what date have you got there Jay have you looked it up oh hang on to be fair it's 2007 it's Charlie Wilson's War Charlie Wilson's War can we scrap all of this no no keep it in keep it Jesus Charlie Wilson's War Charlie I'm begging you it's only because it sounded like we need the content we're way under today no we don't we don't it's only because it sounded like a film which came out in the 40s and you've already referenced the 50s and the 80s today so I thought you were just pining for five on eras because Harry's quite an old fashioned name isn't it don't add to this I suppose you've got Harry Maguire we've had lots of funny bits already today it's fine okay Harry Wilson's war just sounds like something that came out in the 40s 50s do you think I think so yeah stop talking your way into this it was bad well Harry Wilson's four could be Saturday er f*** er

57:48Burnley Fulham Saturday They at 5.30, but the one they're all waiting for, they in this case being Brentford and Leeds fans, is the Sunday 4.30 match-up, which we'll be here straight after with the Totally Football Show weekend review. At the G-Tech Stadium, Brentford taking on Leeds. Leeds who are 16th. They're only two points off the drop. Brentford, two places but four points above them. and that's the game go on then Chase sell it to us I mean Brentford's home record is phenomenal so if there's a Brentford game you tune into it's probably better that you tune into them when they're playing at home they're more likely to entertain Eagle Thiago at home as well Thiago has been good fun this season I think it will be Dango Wattara's last game before he jets off to AFCON and there is a bit of a a bit of a rivalry between Brentford and Leeds sort of dating back to when they were in the championship together and Thomas Frank made some comments about Leeds when Marcelo Bielsa was in charge and then at the end of that season Leeds got promoted Brentford didn't, there was a video of a few Leeds players singing Mind the Gap Thomas Frank so there's a time, I'm not saying there's huge amounts of animosity, there's a little bit of lingering and then Leeds actually stayed up on the final day of the season of the 21-22 season when Jack Harrison scored a last-minute goal, and Rafinha did this.

59:17Chad Harrison's warden. Maybe you can explain it. Rafinha did this slightly bizarre thing where he got on his knees and basically crawled across one half of the pitch to the other half of the pitch. But I think he was crawling towards the Brentford fans, not the Leeds fans, at the end of the game. So I wouldn't be surprised if there's a little bit of sub-ice. I feel like also this feels like a game that's kind of representative of the way that the Premier League is this season in terms of being kind of filled with physicality and height and directness. So if we were going to sell it as a Super Sunday game, then it's kind of this is the archetypal Premier League game this season.

59:55And it's already been described as on this Sunday. Indeed, indeed. Brentford, 16 of their 19 points this season have come at the GTEC, 84%. Wow, there you go. Will they get more points this weekend? Again, we'll be finding out and reporting back to you Sunday. Even if you want to see us record our Sunday night show, then just get on YouTube round about 7.15 or possibly 7.30, round that kind of time on Sunday, when I'll be joined by Daniel Storey, Ruben Pinder, and Colin Miller to round up all the action and look ahead to Man United Bournemouth a bit. That's it for today, though. So many, many thanks for your company, Jack, Jay and Mark also producer Jake and producer Charlie in the booth and you listener or viewer we'll be back with you soon, have a great weekend and hope to catch up with you on Sunday night for now from all of us here it's goodbye You've been listening to The Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network.

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