Spurs stay up as West Ham drop down to the Championship

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1:59The Athletic FC

2:07Totally Football Show. Premier League season finale. It's Survival Sunday or Spurs-Ival Sunday as Tottenham stay up top and the Hammers fall. We check on the last day drama, ask could West Ham really be in League One this time next year and round up all the goals and goodbyes of this final round. Plus, we marvel at the incredible Hull, play our final winners and Tigers to Lions, get a few words on England's World Cup squad, all in this Totally Football Show.

2:41Hello everybody. For the final time this season, here we are on a Sunday evening, live streaming our thoughts about a round of Premier League action. Not just any old set of matches, but the final day of this Premier League campaign. Big things to be decided, and they were. Oh my. Here in the studio, to chat about it all, we've got Tom Williams. Hello, James. Tom of Canal Plus and many other outlets. He himself. that is I also in the studio writing a similarly highly charged energy vibe Daniel's story of the eye lovely to see you lovely to have you here with us Daniel lovely to see Tom as well it's been a long time lovely to see you man I was used to seeing you on the screen it's a bit like when the girl crawls out of the telly in the ring but in a good way well let's see lovely to see you if you are there joining us on YouTube and we're going to be yeah putting it together the Monday morning podcast.

3:40There might be the odd pause, maybe even an error or two, but I know you'll be patient. Many thanks to everyone who's joined us. Is McBurney the player you want if your club want to be promoted to the Premier League from the Championship? It says Kutsch, 1982. I mean, that's a question. We'll be getting on to that, actually. We'll be talking to a Hull person in the know about the remarkable rise of the Tigers. Czczyk, who's economical with the vowels, says, shout out to the haters that wanted Spurs down. None of that here in this studio. I'm glad to say, glad to say. Speaking of people writing in, Ben Hayes has got a question.

4:18He's out of 10, says Ben. What score would you give the season as a whole? There's been a title race, European places drama, managerial sacking after sacking, teenagers running riot, peps farewell, and Spurs dot, dot, dot. Ben's just a score of eight and a half out of 10. What do you think, Tom? I think that's possibly slightly on the generous side today felt more momentous than I was expecting did you? with all the farewells you know Bernardo Silva John Stones Pep Guardiola most obviously at City Salah and Andy Robertson at Liverpool so you know a bit of an end of an era vibe but the season as a whole was Ben's yeah 8 out of 10 I think I mean there has been there has been you know lots of stuff going on but I just quality wise I don't think it's been a vintage campaign yeah I think you're still being generous.

5:07I think eight and a half out of ten last month of the season. Six, six and a half season. Because we're comparing against other seasons, right? I've enjoyed the bunching up of non-elite, financially elite clubs taking the mick out of financially elite clubs. That's been fun. Other than that, I think it's not been a... Aesthetically maybe not been a... Fewer goals. And this is the first Premier League season ever in which no team has scored six. Apparently it's the first time in English top flight history that no team has scored six goals. At least six goals. At least six goals in one game. Which I think is kind of reflective of the sort of season we've had.

5:45It has felt a bit minimalist at times. Well, or closely fought. I think one thing we are going to find is that, yes, it has become bunched up. And that's one reason. But also the sheer amount of football. And let's face it, in rising temperatures every year and big workloads. I think both non-elite and elite teams will try and manage the minutes. A 2-0 or a 3-0 lead is enough. You don't necessarily need to force your foot down any further. OK. We've got Rashane Thomas on the way from the London Stadium on West Ham. Didn't work out well for them. Chris Weatherspoon for Sunderland, for whom it very much did.

6:27And they're placing the Europa League, which they conquered today. We'll also be hearing from Barry Cooper, as mentioned, from the Hull Daily Mail on the Tigers and their prospects for next season in the Premier League. Just on that final day, did it live up to everything you thought? The checking of phones, the news filtering through, the twists and turns, Daniel? I mean, the Sunderland story saved it, I think. There was a murmur of about two minutes at Spurs when Spurs were winning and they heard news of the first West Ham goal, where everybody sort of lost their minds. But it was weirdly, it was like it was the supporters losing their minds and the players being like, we've got this, which is pretty much the opposite of how Spurs have been all season.

7:05And it helped that Everton were completely half-paced. But yeah, that was the only time. There was a minute in the first half when Everton built up a tiny little bit of momentum and forced a couple of chances. And then that two minutes in the second. But other than that, there was no real drama at the bottom. So I'm glad we had Sunderland. And also, obviously, Villa and Liverpool killed the sixth-place Champions League bus. They did. But, and this was huge, Bruno Fernandes got the record the record for Premier League assists now belongs to Bruno on his own with a whopping 21 anyway quick check on the results then for Manchester 38 of this season West Ham were 3-0 winners against Leeds but it didn't matter too much because Spurs beat Everton 1-0 so it's the Hammers who go down the one major movement on final day was Sunderland beating Chelsea 2-1 Blackhats moving into seventh place and the Europa League places Chelsea dropped to tenth out of Europe altogether.

8:02Sixth place, as Daniel mentioned, didn't become a Champions League spot because Villa stayed fourth. They beat Manchester City 2-1 at the Etihad in Pep and Bernardo Silva's farewell. Liverpool, meanwhile, who were saying bye-bye to Robbo and Mo, drew 1-1 with Brentford. The other scores, 1-1 as well for Nottingham Forest with Bournemouth. That's now 18 draws this season for the Cherries, which is a Premier League record. 1-1 for Burnley and Wolves 2. 2-0 for Fulham against Newcastle. 3-0 for Man United at Brighton with the Bruno assist for the first goal. And finally, Arsenal 1-2-1 at Crystal Palace lifting that shiny trophy aloft in the late Sunday sunshine.

8:48Tom, any comments? Any notes on Arsenal's celebrations? Come on then. I was going to make this point earlier when we were talking about the season as a whole and how good it was. 22 years they waited. Having a new champion, I think that's a positive for this season. I think this will prove to be a very memorable season. Having a big traditional club like Arsenal, who waited for ages to win the league, getting over the line, you know, is the kind of thing people remember. And yeah, you know, who doesn't love a trophy lift? There were a few details that I thought were curious. One being that the goalkeepers were wearing outfield player shirts, but had put their gloves on.

9:28Kepra Arrizabalaga, you could perhaps understand, because he'd been wearing gloves all afternoon, because he was actually in goal. But I guess David Raya would have been wearing gloves on the bench. I don't think you do. Do you? I've heard actually that goalkeepers, because gloves smell so bad, or having said that when you take them off you stinky hands and you're shaking hands with dignitaries you don't want to be you know so maybe it is it is better to keep them off but then if he had the she outfield shirt on he might have been needed so would surely have had to take the gloves off to put the shirt on I don't think you would I think you can take a it's not important I know but I think you can I take your point but it was lovely to see them celebrating Mikel Arteta with a big smile and they've certainly earned that Anyway, that's Arsenal who finished top.

10:18The biggest question of all on the final day was what was happening down the bottom. So let's have a little look at how it all played out for Spurs and West Ham next. This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. Left in by Tal, Pickford, quarterback coming, it's back on the bank, and I think it's across the line. Goal, signal by McIlonema.

10:44Five margins Huge moments Palinha With the winning goal Palinha with the win-year You might say As Spurs beat Everton 1-0 To secure their place In the Premier League For next season Daniel So there's a question here immediately from a viewer who says, opinions, this is from Nicholas Hooper, interested to hear opinions on what needs to change next year for Spurs not to repeat this year. Because I can't notice that they finished 17th. And where did they finish last year? 17th. So how do they avoid finishing 17th next time around? I think people should go. I think Vinay, the chief exec, should go.

11:33I think Johan Langer, the sporting director, should go. So I think they have been incredibly fortunate that this has ended up turning this way. And there is a lot of fortune in this. Aston Villa picking that reserve team and effectively binning off that league game is basically what has defined the relegation race. Not just because they finished exactly two points ahead of West Ham, but also because it gave them the momentum they needed to push on. If they'd have lost that game, I think they would have gone down. and they are still a terribly managed football club because, very briefly, people talk about a big six and it's not about performance, it's about revenue.

12:11Tottenham's revenue in the last cycle was£222 million more than Aston Villa's. So they are the best of the rest in terms of... Because they're finishing the top six this season, they're finishing the top four this season, but are not a big six club. To waste that money and to finish 17th is a remarkable effort of mismanagement. It really is kind of harder to do than not do. That sort of producer-style experiment where you try and waste... They've spent, so since 2019, Spurs have spent 1.3 billion euros on players, which is fourth highest of every club in the world. Really? Every club in the world.

12:47And they finished 17th. You're not meant to be able to do that. Football is meant to be weighted in a way now that that doesn't happen, and yet it has happened. What kind of counterpoint to that next season when they won't have any European commitments? They'll have a manager, presumably De Zerbi, still going to be there, who has sparked a real uptick in their performances. 11 points from seven matches under De Zerbi since his arrival. You'll have, one would hope, a rather less injury-ravaged beginning to the campaign. So the likes of James Madison available, maybe Kudlosevsky. I don't know. and maybe Xavi Simmonds and some of those signings that you mentioned becoming, having bedded in a bit better.

13:31Yeah, there are still a lot of players there who have gone through some if not all of the last two seasons though and shown themselves. You know, it's not, they have had a lot of injuries, of course they have, but the clubs they are finishing directly above are either calamity clubs or are clubs who should be in a completely different world to Spurs. For the people in charge to keep their jobs and somehow prove themselves to be capable enough to stay in them, Spurs should have finished fifth or sixth this season and they finished 17th. We're not talking about incremental improvements for them to prove.

14:06That's not good enough now. You've had goes at this. It's someone else's turn to be better. I honestly think that would be better for the club if they have. Relegation would have been terrible, but it would at least have forced a ripping up and starting again. I don't think staying up by two points ahead of West Ham because you beat a half-arse Villa team should be enough for you to go, right, now we don't need to rip it up. The worst thing they could do is try and tweak their way to getting better, I think. OK. What did you make of them today, Tom? Yeah, I mean, I think the fact that they had practically no opposition, you know, against them made or should have made life easier.

14:42as it was, there was still an awful lot of nervousness around the ground, you know, going into stoppage time, because Everton did finally start to put them under a little bit of pressure, and had Everton managed to equalise at the start of stoppage time, then Spurs would have seen out the season in very uncomfortable circumstances. So yeah, I mean, they did enough to get the job done today. I don't think there was a huge amount of suspense about that pre-game. It was very hard to imagine Everton, given the form that Everton have been in in recent weeks, going to Spurs and winning, which is obviously what would have needed to happen for West Ham to have stood any chance of staying up.

15:25I think one of the most interesting things to have happened this season is that you've got mega-rich clubs like Spurs and Chelsea being punished for spending their money very carelessly and clubs like Bournemouth and Sunderland and Brighton, who, let's not forget, in the grand scheme of things, are extremely rich clubs themselves compared to everyone else in Europe. But they're not as rich as Chelsea and Spurs, and so they have to spend a little bit more cleverly and a little bit more carefully, and they've reaped the rewards. And it's a real parable for the potential dangers of having the kind of money at your disposal that Daniel was talking about.

16:14You get the sense that there are some clubs for whom, not that they spend without thinking at all, but they've got so used to just being able to put 40, 50 million pounds on a player that that's just what they do every time they have to go and recruit anyone. So yeah, it'd be interesting. I mean, I think, you know, you look at that Spurs team, there are some very good players in that squad. They've got one of the most coveted coaches in European football who will have a full preseason. The injuries are a major issue because that's like two seasons now that they have just been completely crippled by injuries.

16:44So that's something they need to sort out. But yeah, it will be interesting to see what kind of, you know, form they're in come August. It's like, will the kind of the relief of today be enough to spark a new dynamic? Or will there be some kind of hangover from these two extremely complicated seasons? Big questions, Tom. Big questions. Meanwhile, perhaps even bigger, even weightier ones surround West Ham, who will be going down and playing in the championship next season. 3-0 they managed to beat Leeds this Sunday afternoon. but it wasn't enough because of the fact that Spurs didn't lose to Everton.

17:23Let's get a quick word now from the London Stadium. Roshane Thomas was there at the game.

17:31Roshane, first of all, what's the mood like there at the London Stadium? You know what? My main takeaway from this game, it felt like a funeral and we were all here mourning West Ham's loss at the Premier League club. That's how it felt like to me. just absolute rejection. Also post-match was confirmed that West Ham had been relegated. Ultimately, West Ham have themselves to blame for relegations, haven't been good enough, haven't been consistent for the duration of the season. My mind goes back to the first 19 games on the Nuno, where, if memory says me well, there's only four league wins and not a single clean sheet.

18:05And on reflection, that's been the biggest killer for West Ham because they had moments during the season where they showed a bit of consistency, a bit of a mini revival, but during the whole season, it hasn't been good enough. 39 points which is the highest total that a team has gone down with in the Premier League for 15 years but the London Stadium is going to be a championship ground next time around yeah so that's what Lincoln next season West Brom and I guess the only consolation relegation a lot of fans have been looking forward to Millwall West Ham's arch drivers of course and on reflection you're looking at thinking maybe Salvin Village because between him and me at the time for the job maybe he would have more of an impact so look it's just now in his post-match press conference, he was a bit tight-lipped on what his long-term future would be.

18:49And he said, now's the time to discuss that. Maybe in the coming days, we will, but now's the time. So, my figure about Nuno is, if you're in there for the, because you signed a three-year contract when you replaced Pottis in late September, if you're in there for the long term, you come out of the fight and say, look, I'm staying here. There hasn't been any of that fighting spirit from Nuno. And, that's been reflecting how the teams have been playing. Roshane, the last two teams to finish 18th in the Premier League, went on to be relegated a second time the following season in Luton and Leicester.

19:20West Ham, you feel, would be reasonably safe from any such prospect. But what is going to happen to West Ham next season? And how well-equipped are they to come straight back up? You know, I absolutely disagree with you. I think West Ham will definitely become that third club to suffer back-to-back relegations. I really do, because there's going to be a lot of players this summer. The club has to raise 150 million players. themselves, the likes of Matthias Nanesh, his club captain, Jarrod Bowen, Maripana, who's named Player of the Year. On Friday, Christensen of Somerville, who's an exciting winger.

19:50So many players will leave in the summer just to raise funds for signings in the summer transfer window. And I'm telling you right now, I do see a world on Nuno leaves. My worry, of course, is West Ham next season because there's going to be a lot of players leaving and you want players from the academy to come from the first team. Obviously, it's the academy of football for a reason, but I look at some of the players on the 21s and think you're good, but maybe you're not quite good enough.

20:20Roshane Thomas there. You should mention Callum Wilson's third goal. What a belter. What a belter that was. But really a detail in and amongst all the other things happening, especially once the whistle had blown and then the whistle blew at Spurs and the Hammers were down. FPL banger Dash Seaver says, West Ham getting rid of David Moyes after finishing ninth in 2024. Feels like a real you don't know what you got till it's gone moment. It is, but some clubs make decisions like that. It's not so much getting rid of David Moyes. It's getting rid of David Moyes and replacing him with the wrong person and then replacing him with the wrong person and then on and on and on.

20:59Did they replace him with the wrong person as well in retrospect? spoke you look at what Nuno's mindset will have been when he arrived at West Ham the very peculiar and unfortunate way that his time at Nottingham Forest ended you know so quickly when he was at the kind of the history man who's kind of got Forrest back into Europe and the next thing he's on the bench at West Ham well there's some fascinating details that have emerged about Nuno's approach at West Ham that Regine himself was reporting on yeah it's a fantastic piece it's like it's really in depth it comes across as a bit of a if I'm Nuno I feel like it's a bit of a drive-by but it'll be well sourced and it sounds like surprise surprise West Ham's not a particularly happy club behind the scenes and there are look the Roshane says you know we could go down next season then slightly rolls back in it but he's right to be there's no point there's nothing to be positive about here there's no point being like well we the good thing is we're going to be favourites of the championship next year and we'll probably win that maybe but also the club is an absolute mess and you know we've just talked about Spurs needing leadership changes they stayed up it's a lot easier to do that when you've got Premier League money West Ham are going to have to find money to fill a black hole they're obviously going to have to sell players they're going to have to sell the players they don't want to have to sell and it's really really hard to get rid of the ones that you do want to sell you know they paid 40 million pounds for Max Kilman not that long ago nobody's going to pay half of that probably now so you've just got an asset on the books while you're in the championship not earning much revenue and in terms of revenue the stadium is still this kind of millstone that hangs around them because it's not a good place to watch football and it's toxic when things aren't working good lord and another consequence of west i'm going down right uh is that for the first time in the history of the english top flight next season there will be no teams whose names begin with the letter w in the history of english football of the English top flight there has always been at least one team in the top division Nottingham Forest being in the relegation zone alphabetically for me is a real games gone moment I have to say N won the relegation zone so at the start of next season so it's Nottingham Forest Sunderland Tottenham so only one S team and no W teams mind blown we've got all summers to think about that though which is nice one or two other things as well on our plate however there you go So best of luck to West Ham.

23:21It's a shame to see them go. Next up, let's cover what happened in those European places.

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25:25This is the Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. The Athletic is the only place you can read articles by Daniel Taylor, Amy Lawrence, Phil Hay, James Pearce, Olly Kaye and the very best football writers around. Tom, you and I on a bank holiday afternoon will be in on Monday here to do the final Totally Football Show European edition of the season. Championships are wrapping up across the continent. We'll have the final day of action news from Spain and Italy too. Who are the teams making the Champions League, all that kind of thing. hey, there's Pokal News with another big win for Bayern and a hat-trick for Harry Kane, who finishes the season with 61 goals.

26:0661-6-1. Woof. Also, Coupe de France, oui, and all that kind of thing, but don't, you know, no spoilers. Don't look at the results if you're going to listen. Anyway, that'll be out with you on Tuesday morning. Regarding Europe, of course, there were still places in the Europa and Conference League to be determined. As it turns out, it was Brighton who found themselves in the ECL after their 3-0 defeat at home to Manchester United this Sunday afternoon. But the biggest story, and in many ways, the kind of most heartwarming element of this final day of action, was Sunderland beating Chelsea 2-1 to join Bournemouth in the Europa League, in Europe and in the Europa League as well, not the Conference League.

26:52Wow. Anyway, at the Stadium of Light for the game, and joining us now, Chris Weatherspoon. Chris, of all the outcomes that you could have dreamt of at the start of this season for Sunderland, how far down the list would this have ranked? Oh, I think you might have been carted off somewhere if you'd suggested this would happen. You know, it was a year ago the day of Sunderland got promoted, and nobody actually wanted to talk about this season after the game because it was kind of... I mean, the expectation from everyone was that, you know, they'd probably come back down. And there was a lot of talk of record bull points tolls.

27:29So, yeah, I don't think anyone saw this coming. I'm not even sure that many people saw this coming today, in all honesty. So, yeah, it's quite a remarkable one. Five places above Newcastle, and unlike the Magpies, in Europe, what is it, half a century since the last European football? Yeah, so there's a statue outside the ground to the last man who guided them to Europe, Bob Stoker, obviously he won a cup in doing it. But yeah, the last and only time someone got in the European competition was after the 1973 cup final. So it's a pretty seismic day. And it was the atmosphere all day at the game and around the city beforehand.

28:11It was kind of, I don't know, it was kind of crackling. It was like an anticipation. and obviously, yeah, it all turned out as people hoped. Yeah. How was the game? Yeah, it was good. It was a similar accent first half. It was really, really good. And there was a little bit of, I don't know, you look at how much Chelsea have spent and the players on the team and you sometimes look and wonder, is this just because they're not too bothered? I don't know. Is getting into the Conference League or the Europa League a bit of a hinge into Chelsea? I don't know. It's a similar accent first half and then, you know, second half Chelsea went down to 10 men.

28:47He probably got a little bit nervy, but I think Sunderland would deserve a win at this. And yeah, like I say, I mean, the atmosphere was brilliant. And I think Chelsea were quite aching aback by that. There was a lot of energy around the team in the first half. And yeah, they thoroughly deserved the win. Brilliant. And a word for Reggie Libreese, who took Sunderland up in his first season in charge and into Europe in the second. Who knows what he can do next time around? Yeah, well, they almost did two bits of appreciation after the game where the kind of players didn't want to leave. And I think they'd arranged beforehand for them to go off and then come back on.

29:24And when they came back on, they took the microphone and spoke to the fans. And he was quite tug-and-cheek about it all. He was very good. Yeah, I mean, he's going to... You know, it's easily forgotten, but when someone hired him, he'd just been relegated with Lorient, and suddenly they've taken well over three months to hire a manager. And a lot of fans and a lot of observers were looking and thinking, do they know what they're doing? And they brought in this guy who, you know, like the last thing on his record was a relegation. There was a lot of concern. And yeah, he's done an absolutely outstanding job.

29:58I mean, he was named the Athletics Manager of the season earlier this week and there's a good reason for that. He's done an amazing job.

30:08Chris Weatherspoon. Magnificent stuff there. Super Stanley Yel Natari says, Arsenal are the first team to get promoted and get straight into Europe. Tom? Well, not quite. And we haven't actually drawn up a definitive list, but Ipswich Town did it after going up in 2000 under George Burley, finished fifth, got into the Wafer Cup, beat the great Inter. 1-0 at Portman Road during that campaign. First in 94, 95. Qualified by finishing third. then pretty much rattle their way through Ligue 1 by knocking out Orgzair and Lyon the following season. Magnificent. So it has been done, but not for a while.

30:48Yeah, and we should, in a slightly more prosaic way of saying it, we said it's not meant to be possible for clubs like Spurs to finish 17th. It's also not really meant to be possible for playoff final winners who have to buy a whole new team to then finish 7th in the Premier League. That's not really meant to be how it's done. With one of the youngest squads in the division as well. It's a remarkable piece of management from those on high and from Le Brice himself. Next season's another challenge, juggling European commitments and second season syndrome. And as much as that may or may not exist.

31:23As for the prospects for Chelsea, of course, Xavier Alonso coming in there. Will he be happier not to be facing any European campaign himself? I think when you're kind of starting over from scratch under a new manager, as Chelsea sort of are, the more time on the training ground with the manager, the better, in a way. And you think if Chelsea had a Champions League campaign to prepare for, that's something different because that has obvious implications in terms of revenue, but also the club's ability to attract new players. If Chelsea imagined today, they'd scraped into the Conference League, I don't think anyone would have been rubbing their hands together.

32:04Because it qualifies if you win it. Right. And, you know, the Conference League campaign of last season was great, but they've kind of ticked that off now. So I think ultimately, if you'd offered Chelsea fans scrape into the Conference League or actually no European football at all, they would, most of them, I suspect, have taken the latter. And it does just give, you know, Xabi Alonso more time to try and work things out. And in a kind of moral way, the confidence league doesn't feel like it's meant for clubs. So having Brighton in there just intrinsically feels like a nicer thing to happen, doesn't it?

32:43Here's another positive for Chelsea next season. They will be coming up for somewhere in which they don't take part in the Club World Cup. And indeed, loads of their players, called Palmer, Pedro Esteván and Colwell, will all be absent from the big tournée in the USA. and thus will be able to get in some proper prep with Xavi Alonso. Although, Nani Madweke went off injured for Arsenal today. So Cole Palmer, I suspect he would be the guy they brought in as that next guy. Unless they went for Gerard Bowen, who's probably closer profile-wise. But we will see. TBC. I mean, Madweke, we haven't heard anything about that injury yet.

33:20So TBC. Wesley Fofana in this game getting shown a second yellow and thus exiting early. that is the eighth red card of this season for Chelsea in the Premier League, which is a lot more than any other club. Yes, twice as many as any other club. It was nice to play that, just that little classic gold hit on the final day because they haven't actually had a player's end-off for about five games. But intriguingly, Arsenal became the first team ever to win the Premier League. Sorry, not to win. Arsenal became the first team in Premier League history to go a whole season without receiving a single red card or indeed conceding a penalty.

33:56Perhaps Arsenal's great strength, certainly their great strength this season compared to recent seasons, is this idea of control. Controlling games that they don't necessarily dominate with the ball. Controlling games when they only have a one goal advantage. And also just controlling their emotions. Not throwing themselves into challenges. Not giving away silly penalties. Exactly. Learn their lesson. OK, very good. The other teams who've ended up in Europe, Bournemouth, they stayed sixth, doesn't mean Champions League football. They drew 1-1 with Nottingham Forest, did Bournemouth in Irreola's last game with the Cherries.

34:34That's 18 matches unbeaten. What a run to finish off on. They also set a new record for most draws in a 38-game Premier League season with 18. That's an exciting stat. I'm not sure what the summer holds for Nottingham Forest in terms of players moving on, Daniel? Yeah, I mean, Morgan Gizwight scored again today, which is a kind of nice moment for Forest because obviously he didn't get the England squad. So him scoring a nice goal today is great. It looks like it's leaning towards him staying. Certainly everything he's saying now, you know, break my heart come end of August. But the main news is that Mario has signed a new contract and a contract extension yesterday.

35:10so that would suggest that he's certainly going to stay. I think his stock is nowhere near as high as it was a year ago. Why is it that Forrest fans like yourself seem to feel like a lot of the big names are going to be moving on? Are Forrest not a big club with...? Well, I think it's a nevers where Elliot Anderson will move on. City's the likely destination, is that right? Yes, that's what we told and I'm sure he would have been briefed that Pep may not be there so I don't think that complicates things. City would like to get that done before the World Cup. Forest really, really like Hayden Hackney of Middlesbrough.

35:43They obviously didn't go up this weekend. Spoiler alert for our chat about Hull City. And so if that could get done pretty quickly, that would be good business. If they just lose Anderson and keep hold of Murillo and Gibbs White, then they'll consider it a very, very good summer because this season has been absolute chaos. And if you were left out of an England squad and you were Morgan Gibbs White and you thought, I think if I was playing for Aston Villa or not even a financial behemoth, but just a club that has been a lot higher in the league than this season than Forrest, maybe he would think he would have gone to the World Cup.

36:20So the hope is that he is adored, he is a captain, he is very well paid at Forrest. And if that's enough to keep him full, you kind of say to him, look, just give us one more season. If Anderson's going to go this summer, give us one more. But we have been saying that he's basically Forrest's second longest serving player now. Now he's been there since they're promoted. Man United said, give us one more season or plenty more seasons. The Michael Carrick on Friday, they made it official that he is now their permanent boss. Team responding with a 3-0 victory away at the Amex against Brighton. The first goal, Tom, one of huge significance.

36:56Yes, Bruno Fernandes, who equaled the Premier League assist record last weekend, And breaking it outright or claiming it, probably more accurately, claiming it outright by teeing up Patrick Dorgoo. But as I have done already this season, I'm going to not pour scorn on the record. But just I think it's important to reiterate assist records. We started counting assists in the mid-90s and we have assist data for the entirety of the Premier League era. But I have no idea how many assists like George Best contributed in his best assist-providing season. Or Glenn Hoddle or whoever. So, you know, fair play, well done.

37:48caveat. I mean, again, I'm going to say I'm not pulling score and then sound like I am. But I think that was his ninth from open play of the 21, which is interesting. Again, an indicator of an open play. That's not very much. Today was from a corner. Eight. Eight then. Eight of the 21 from open play, which again is an indicator of this season. Yeah. All right. Well done, Bruno. Yes. Colin Miller points out that Man United are the most improved team from last season to this. Do you know how many points they are better off than last time around? I would guess 30. Well, you're so close. It's 29. 29.

38:27Can you guess then, Daniel, who are the team whose points tally is worst compared to last season? It sounds quite foresty to me. No. No, no. Even though we've gone 7th to 16th. Wolves, just because they're that bad? No, no. Not even. Have you got it at home, have you? Chelsea? No. No. Man City? No, they finished Champions last year. Yeah, Liverpool. That's quite bad to have made them my sixth guess. Well, it's been a long day. We've got used to them not being all that good for so long that they don't immediately come to mind. That's very possibly the reason. They certainly weren't all that good today, by the looks of it, in their 1-1 draw with Brentford.

39:11Ultimately not a match that mattered a huge amount. Liverpool did secure Champions League football for next season, but said goodbye to Andy Robertson and Mo Salah. A lot of the interest ahead of this final day was whether Mo Salah would actually start after his pointed remarks. Apparently there are more pointed remarks on the way, which is fun. He said he'd cried more today than in any day in his life. Oh, well, that's a shame. but just like your Premier League records unless we go back and examine his toddler years I'm going to take him at his words who's going to know better than him but I would say Moe tears of the price you pay for the good times that you've had and you had so many good times at Anfield and you contributed an assist today as well did you not yeah you did a lovely outside of your boot kind of the archetypal Salah assist kind of race into space on the right-hand side, jag into the box, and then outside of the left foot into the corridor of uncertainty.

40:17And there was Curtis Jones to tuck it in at the back post. It was indeed. Later on, Mo Salah left the field. Tom, with your warm generosity of spirit, how did you feel about them stopping the game so that he could hug everyone and essentially have a guard of honour? Yeah, I mean, it's... Yeah, it's always a slightly unusual thing to see. But I think happily for Mo Salah or Bernardo Silva, who left the pitch in similar circumstances. He didn't get a guard on it, did he? I think so. Did he? I think so, yeah. Luckily for all of these players, John Terry set the bar so high when it comes to absurd mid-match departures that nothing ever comes close.

41:02So is it slightly weird to have the game stop and someone get a guard on? I mean, I think it's okay. I think particularly with a player of that stature who's done so much for the club. Can't you wait to the end of the game? Yeah, but what, to do the guard of honour? No, you don't do a guard of honour, you do some sort of celebration. You can give them a guard of honour when they come on the field and then they can relish those final minutes fully conscious. There are things about modern football that bother me. This is not really one of them. Tabasco 1882 says, This naysay pod has been so sick.

41:35Thank you, boys. Here for you all evening, Tabasco. Good. Let's play a movie where that came from. Spicy chat. Anyway, there were lots of goodbyes today. Mo and Robbo at Anfield, Bernardo, John Stones at City, and Pep. Pep, who I thought would be more emotional come the final whistle as he finished off a decade. I wonder, has it not sunk in with him yet? Daniel, you were saying it hasn't sunk in with you yet either, the fact that come next season, there's going to be Enzo Maresco on the bench. Yeah, that's it. It's the first day of next season when you're like, or season preview time, when you think, you know, for the last X number of years, you've done your rough table and you've put Manchester City top as a placeholder.

42:25And you've maybe moved them occasionally one down, but not really. And they're a completely different beast now, probably. And yeah, that is going to take a long time. a completely different beast. Yeah, I actually don't like the appointment at all. I think going, you either go to something completely different or you go, you know, slightly false replica of. And I think Maresca, I can see why they've done it because there's no obvious candidate with the other. I think if they'd waited a year, it'd probably gone to Vincent Kompany. But yeah, I'm not sure it'll work out. Not least because Guardiola leaves City in a slightly uncertain phase in their development.

43:02lots of new signings over the last 12 months a big stylistic shift around the same time moving away from this huge emphasis on possession towards a slightly more hybrid style City more direct players like Donnarumma, Kusanov, Haaland who are not kind of classically classic Guardiola players and they've gone for Maresco who is a possession guy You know, we saw that at Leicester, we saw that to an extent at Chelsea. And I wonder what he will make of the squad that he inherits and whether he will try to take City back to the possession team that they were previously or whether he will try and, you know, continue on the path that Guardiola had put them on.

43:51Also, you may not have heard, but there's this sort of cases against City at the moment as well that people have been talking about. at some point something is going to happen about that the day after Maresca is appointed well if it's this summer or if it's next season then that is even if the punishment is not applied and there's appeals the sheer noise around that is going to make managing that club very very difficult I think for a period of time and there's no evidence to suggest that those two things are related in terms of Guardiola leaving but it will be a very knackering experience for a manager to manage that noise When Pep announced or confirmed his departure, we made a lot of references to what happened with United after Sir Alex left Old Trafford.

44:36Nick Hamlin just saying, I think Pep leaves Man City in a better state, or at least they are in a better state when Pep leaves than Man United were when Sir Alex left. That's probably fair, isn't it? Yeah, the structure they... I mean, they built the church for Pep, but the structure that they built makes sense for other managers of his ilk, whereas Manchester United were effectively an Alex Ferguson fiefdom, and nobody else could cope with that amount of responsibility. I want to understand what Thomas Callan means when he says, Maresca plays horseshoe of death football, like Brendan Rodgers.

45:09What he means is he passes it out to one winger, one winger starts to run up, turns back, plays around. It's a horseshoe, but he did it to death. Not a horseshoe of death. No, no, no, no, no. What, a literal horseshoe of death? I don't know. But thanks for explaining that. I just wanted to make a general point about the teams that were in the mix for European qualification. And I think it speaks to the struggles of the more established clubs this season. But you look at Bournemouth, Sunderland, Brighton, Brentford, who've all had exceptional seasons. but they've all had enormous losses of momentum at one time or another.

45:50Bournemouth finished the campaign on this club record 18-match unbeaten run. Prior to that, they went 11 games without a win. Sunderland, between mid-December and the beginning of March, won two league matches. Brighton had a similar kind of tricky period. Brentford have finished ninth despite winning one of their last 10 matches. so okay they haven't limped to the line but there have been huge periods of uncertainty and I think it just speaks to the fact that you know the teams immediately below them most notably Chelsea and Newcastle and much further down Tottenham have just been so far off where you would expect them to be that you know the middle class the upwardly mobile middle class have have had like you know in some way they've had exceptional seasons but if you look at their form you know these aren't teams were putting on incredible like runs of like wins after you know win after win after win they have been up and down but they've not been threatened by they've not been challenged by the clubs you would expect to be in those positions and I think that partly explains why you know they've they've finished where they have and it's been so tight that it is actually you know from a neutral point of view it is nice that it hasn't in the end it It feels like if the season had gone for another month, maybe, we'd have ended up with just the same old clubs in the same top eight, nine positions.

47:10I'm glad that we stopped when we did, so that didn't happen. Yeah. Newcastle, for example, you mentioned Tom lost 2-1. 2-0. 2-0 to Fulham today. The second goal of which was the Tom Kearney goal. Was that the first goal? That was the second goal, yeah. That was the second goal. Yeah. Kearney kick it. Kearney kick it. Yes, he can. What a belter that was. Anyway, Fulham move above Newcastle with that into 11th spot. Newcastle very much 12th. And the other match on this final day of the season, Burnley Wolves, which finish 1-1. So they remain 19th and 20th. I think for 48 minutes Wolves managed to get themselves off the bottom if they'd have beaten Burnley.

47:48And, yeah, end bottom. I feel like that's one of those pieces that I hope somebody writes this sort of despair derby on the final day when everything else is going on because it sounded bleak again. Well, they go down. Coming up, as we know, as of Saturday afternoon and the championship playoff final, are Hull, who beat Middlesbrough 1-0. What are the prospects for the Tigers? What was it like? Is Hull painted orange as of this morning? Questions that we will be putting to Barry Cooper from the Hull Daily Mail next.

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50:50City dared to dream and now that dream could be the reality of going to the Premier League Hull City won Middlesbrough nothing at all Saturday afternoon at Wembley only but Bernie it was with the goal in the 95th minute Middlesbrough thus becoming the first team to get knocked out of the same playoffs twice Hull City back in the Premier League for the first time in nine years What's it going to be like having them up? Baz Cooper from the Hull Daily Mail joins us now. Barry, thank you so much for being with us. Hull back in the Premier League. What's the mood in the city? Disbelief, James, I think.

51:31Shock. Everybody's just... I've got goosebumps, as I mentioned it, because I don't think it's going to sink in for quite some time. It was... Look, if you're ever going to win a playoff final to get back to the Premier League, to do it in the 95th minute is right up there, isn't it? Yeah, the previous 94, I imagine, were quite tense, the game goalless. And the Tigers doing their usual outstanding job of shutting down the opposition. They didn't concede a single shot on target. No, absolutely. Look, I think we've all seen enough championship playoff finals over the years to understand what they are.

52:03And good spectacles generally aren't, are they? They are fraught with tension, fraught with fear. The pressure, I think, of what winning that game means to the players, to the club. I think teams generally both sets players just freeze but you know City were were relatively comfortable I know they hit the bar in the first half Ollie McBurney with a deflected header and Middlesbrough huffed and puffed had plenty of ball didn't really carry much of a threat they've not it's mad to think that they've got one of the in the regular season City had one of the worst defensive records but in the playoffs three clean sheets is something they seem to do in playoffs generally but yeah I think they just wore Middlesbrough down They turned them around from kick-off and they won the toss and got them to play in the baking sunshine.

52:50And eventually Middlesbrough wilted. And we always felt that substitutions from the gaffer from Yakirovich would be absolutely key. And he got it spot on and it was Yu Hirakawa who popped up. And McBurney was there, Johnny on the spot, wasn't he? Well, Ollie on the spot. Well, indeed. Miles says, let's get some respect put on the job Sergei Yakirovich has done. and how McBurney has genuinely been one of the signings of the century. Exaggeration, Barry, or fair? Look, he was a free transfer. City obviously had the transfer restrictions that meant they couldn't pay loan or transfer fees for anybody.

53:26And McBurney became almost... It was almost the figurehead of the summer last year. If they could get him over the line, it opened the door to sign other players. And I think when they were able to get him, it showed that they were serious. But, you know, Sergei has been a breath of fresh air. I think the Premier League will love having him in there. There was a bit of disrespect at the start of the season from people that didn't really know who he was and just automatically wrote City off and said, well, they've just survived on goal difference. They're going to be relegation fodder again. But they found a way of playing that suits them.

53:58They don't need a huge amount of the ball. If anybody watched the second leg at Millwall, they'll see that this is a team that can play football as well. They play front-footed football, but they can suffer, they can sit in and they can play on the counter-attack if they need to and they've got a manager that isn't arrogant and wedded to a style that we have to play this style by hook or by crook. He's very much, we'll play what we need to to get a result and that team have got heart and they showed at the end what a good team's spirit can do. Brilliant. Against a side they weren't even expecting to be facing.

54:32Barry, are they going to stay up next season in the Premier League? Look, it's going to be hard, isn't it? we all know that we're under no illusions but they've got they've got a passionate owner they've got they've got people behind the scenes that have recruited really well in the last 18 months they'll need to recruit well of course they will football's about dreaming James and they've dreamed all season those dreams came true and they can let them have their let them have their Wembley celebrations and we'll worry about the Premier League in a couple of weeks time but yeah it's going to be tough but why can't we dream indeed Barry thank you so much look forward to speaking to you next season All the best, James.

55:06Thanks so much.

55:35League Two playoff final will be between Notts County and Salford. That's Monday at three o 'clock. All right. One thing before we wrap it up today is to just get a quick reaction to some slightly older news, which was the England squad. Thomas Tuchel's big reveal was on Friday and actually most of Thursday as well. It's fair to say it's been a controversial selection that Tuchel has made. There's always, you can't have an England squad without an England squad controversy. Do you feel that this has been a more contested set of choices than usual? I think so. I think part of that was inevitable because it's the first time since 2018 that we've had a new manager.

56:24And, you know, social media has changed in that time. I think fan sentiment and anger has changed in that time. So, yes, I think there's also a desperation, a realisation that at some point, well, this might certainly be Kane's last World Cup, for example. So there's a desperation to get it done, and that has reflected in some reaction. I do think there are some odd calls. I think the sheer number of full-backs, I think there's at least one too many there. some of the explanations about players I don't really buy. You know, he talks about, I mean, I'm very wedded to the Morgan Gibbs-White for England campaign.

57:05And he sort of said, well, we don't need five number tens in the squad. Well, actually, Morgan Gibbs-White has been playing on the left wing recently and so on and so forth. But ultimately, all that noise will be forgotten as soon as England start the tournament. And if you win your games, people don't really care about squad selection. and they completely forget who should have been in the squad if you play well. But do you think this is a team, I guess, is the bigger question. And we'll find out when the tournament gets underway that whether this is a team that is built to... I mean, there's been a variety of reactions to it.

57:36None of them particularly positive, the ones I've read. Tim Spears on The Athletic calling it talented but confusing. Karl Anker in the same piece. Tactically perverse but tall. As a Welshman with nothing but the best interest of England in your heart, Tom, What do you make of leaving out Palmer, Foden, Maguire, Gibbs White, Adam Walton, bringing the Saudi Premier Leagues, even Tony Jordan Henderson, Maduaki possibly injury permitting, Jed Spence, even Anthony Gordon who's not done a lot of late. Scored 10 goals in the Champions League this season, Anthony Gordon. and hasn't been playing for Newcastle of late because they think he's leaving.

58:23Okay, Livan Tony I don't understand. He's had an incredible season. He's scored 42 goals this season, but he's not played for England for a year. If you were thinking of involving him in the World Cup squad, surely you pick him in March at the very least. Jordan Henderson I don't understand very much. People like Nani Madueke and Jed Spence will raise eyebrows, But these are very clearly squad picks who aren't going to create unwanted headlines if they're not picked. Madiwaka in particular has spent the entire season playing as backup to Saka. That will be his role at the World Cup. So I think those are, you know, kind of sensible choices.

59:02And then I guess, you know, the headline omissions. I think Tuchel's tactical choices over the last year plus have generally been quite coherent, particularly with regard to the structure of the team in attacking areas. And I think the bottom line is, and something he's realised, if you have Harry Kane, you do not need a conventional number 10 because Harry Kane does that himself if you give him the freedom to do it. That's partly why Ferdinand and Palmer haven't been selected. Also because, you know, Ferdinand in particular, every time they've played for England in recent times, they've been poor.

59:34I think Tuchel's idea is that you associate Kane with a number 10 capable of breaking past him and attacking the box. Morgan Rodgers does that very well. We've seen that with England. Jude Bellingham can do it. I mean, Morgan Gibbs-Wright can do it as well. Unfortunately, he has missed out. Harry Maguire's curious because he's always done the business for England. But I think as much as a lot of big-name players have been left out, when you start to look at the reasoning or you try and understand, I think it is kind of coherent. A man with a plan, you feel. Yeah, and every time a squad is announced for a major tournament, people forget that it's not just about picking the best players.

1:00:17It's about you need a team that works, you need a plan B and a plan C, and you need people who aren't going to play, who aren't going to rock the boat, and that's obviously what he's trying to do. France, what's been the big controversy with the French squad? I mean, they haven't been really. They've left out a load of talented players, but you look at the players who are in the squad, and it's who do you leave out? Rabiot is a kind of relative outsider. Rabiot and Kante together kind of surprised. I kind of think you'd have one of those as a sort of old-timer pick rather than both. Yeah, but I mean, Rabiot will start alongside Chouameni and Kante will be there for the back.

1:00:53And Rabiot always plays on the left of the two and Kante always plays on the right. So I think that's kind of Deschamps' thinking. I mean, when the squad was announced, the main kind of headlines were that Jean-Philippe Mateta had got the call as the last attacking player. and that they'd gone for Robin Risse of Lens as their third-choice goalkeeper. And when your third-choice goalkeeper pick is the headline, that is a sign that the squad looks pretty good. Yeah. Okay. Excellent. Very good. World Cup's not far away now. 11th of June, Mexico, South Africa. We're going to be doing nightly round-ups of the action and look-aheads to the next day.

1:01:37and when I say nightly we'll actually be doing all of this in Los Angeles so for our night time read your morning so every morning we'll be popping up sat around the pool having a chat about what went on in the World Cup and what's about to sounds like funny anyway that's all to look forward to Daniel you'll meanwhile be roving around the United States in a vehicle I will I'm not going to go into any more details than that for spoiler alerts our project launches on Thursday I believe woof alright Tom you're going to be very much their poolside in Los Angeles. Indeed. Stopping on the factor 50.

1:02:12Spicy marks. Oh, yes. Woof. Excellent. That, I think the round's it up for today. So many thanks to Daniel for being with us. And good luck with your trip. Hope to speak to you when you're in the States. I think I'll speak to you next Saturday. Are you in non-Saturday? Right, we've got the Champions League before that. We've got the Conference League to talk about. That's on Thursday. Well, that's on Wednesday, but we'll be talking about it on Thursday. We've got the European show with you tomorrow, Tom, and just loads of podcasts. It just keeps on coming. Football never stops. Doesn't, does it?

1:02:47Literally never stops. Thanks to you, though, Tom. Many thanks to Jake and to Charlie in the booth. Everybody who was with us on YouTube or listening now on podcasts, many, many heartfelt gratitudes. And we'll speak to you soon on the Totally Football Show.

1:03:05You've been listening to The Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. For other great podcasts just like this one, including The Athletic FC and our dedicated club podcasts, search for The Athletic in all the usual places. We're also at The Totally Show on Insta and at The Totally Show on YouTube. The Totally Football Show is an Athletic Media Company production.

1:03:31The Athletic FC.

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