Tense times for Tuchel, Poch under pressure and the Club World Cup is here

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2:48Totally Football Show. our weary stars too far, the Intertotally Cup. Also, Club World Cup preview. It's the Totally Football Show. Thursday, the 12th of June. Hey, listener. Welcome to the show. Hi, Duncan Alexander. Hi. Because you're here. So is Tim Spears. Hello. Hello to you both. And hello to Tom Williams. Konnichiwa, James. Konnichiwa, indeed. Genki, this guy. Yes. How is everyone? Yeah, good. Yeah. Good. All right, then. So excited about the Club World Cup. I mean, I'm not sure I can even put it into words. I am excited. Just counting down the minutes. Counting down the minutes and seconds.

3:32I mean, this is early with our Club World Cup chat, but I welcome it because I am quite excited by the whole kind of wacky racist notion of all these disparate characters thrown together in one kind of glorious grab bag of soccer, summer action. It felt a bit mysterious a month or so ago when other stuff was happening. But as I was working my way through the Athletics' excellent coverage of the build-up and your group guides and team guides, I actually got quite excited. Did you? Yeah. It may be one of those things that that excitement builds right up until the opening whistle and then kind of there's a bit of a...

4:05See, I don't feel any excitement whatsoever, so I think I'm actually safe from that. I'm hoping that I'm going to be kind of drawn into the tournament. Sunday night, PSG, Atletico Madrid? Or is that not as exciting because you see those kind of teams facing each other in the Champions League. Are you more excited by Bayern Munich against Auckland FC? Yes, very much so. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I'm not really sure how to... If people aren't aware, Auckland City are serial winners of the Oceanic Champions League, the best of the Champions Leagues, but they are a part-time team. So it's proper, you know, butcher, baker.

4:42And their first game is against Harry Kane, and you know for a fact that Harry Kane is going to show them no mercy at all. So, yeah, it could be seen. We see like Australia, New Zealand in the past have beaten the Cook Islands. 36-0. Yeah. It's not going to be that high, but we could get a... And Bayern loves stuffing amateurs because they make sure to start every season. So they're really bringing things full circle. Start off by beating a bunch of, you know, Bavarian 15-year-olds, 68-0. Could be that kind of scoreline, says Tom Williams. And finishing it with, you know, something similar. The Opta Power Rankings placed the New Zealand amateur side.

5:17I'm quoting actually from the Athletic Zone preview at 4 ,928th in the world which is how many places below the next lowest team in the competition, Tim? I'll tell you, it's 4 ,324 places. They are slightly above non-league kid amongst the Harriers in the opt-power rankings. And Mighty Tigers FC. Also, was that your hand? It was, that was my hand. Tim, did you do that? All right, very nice. they're in a group with Bayern Benfica and Boca Juniors what could go wrong yeah in fact Benfica-Boca is one of the first good games to look out for because you'd expect Bayern to win the group and Auckland to probably bow out so Boca-Benfica on Monday I think it's probably the first game I'm really looking forward to do you think more than say PSG the reigning European champions that might have a bit of a post-season friendly type feel I'm doing that one in a double header with Bayern Auckland it's going to be really good but it might have a bit of a sort of well this is what we're waiting to find out will it have a post-season friendly kind of feel or will it be proper even the first game Al Alli against Inter Miami Al Alli are quite good and obviously Inter Miami got in to the tournament through a method but they've been pretty poor recently defensively but obviously they have you know who running things for them but yeah it's a huge game that because if they lose to Al Alli then they could be in trouble So, yeah, the 470 fans who turn up are going to be in for an absolute treat.

6:48You say that, Tom, but I believe that at least 20 ,000 of these, 60 ,000 capacity at the Hard Rock Cafe Stadium have been sold. And the rest are admittedly going for about$4 a pop. So if you're in Miami and you have$4, why not pop along Sunday night? Saturday night. Saturday night. Sunday morning for you. If you're listening to the UK listener, well, there might be a bit more chat about the Club World Cup. as we're so excited later on. But also on the agenda today, we've got your international action. As you know, England lost their first game under Thomas Tuchel, their first ever game to an African opponent as well.

7:293-1 to Senegal. That was on Tuesday night in Noddingham. Wales lost their first game under Craig Bellamy. That was rather more exciting. 4-3 away to Belgium. They came out from three goals down. Tom Williams was there. USA lost 4-0 to Switzerland. That's not their first defeat under Pochettino. It's their fourth in a row. Yikes. We'll hear more about that later. Carl Ancelotti got his first win with Brazil. They beat Paraguay 1-0 to qualify for the World Cup. Ancelotti fielding no less than four forwards. Vinicius, Martinelli, Jafinha and Mateus Cunha, Tim. They've got on the field. One goal they got.

8:06One. Yeah, they missed from two yards. Oh, did he? Yeah. He's off to Manchester United. The curse has started already. Other transfer news since we last spoke. Kevin De Bruyne has signed for Napoli. Man City have completed the signings of Chiani Reindeers, Ryan Cherky and Ryan Aitnori. Ooh, a lot of Wolves players outgoing, Tim. First team to ever sign two players called Ryan in the same transfer. Is that correct? I'm pretty sure. Can't be many. Hmm. Wolves have banked just under£100 million from those two sales. Yeah, they've also lost Pablo Sarabia. Nelson Samaida has probably gone on a free, he hasn't made his mind up yet, and the sporting director's gone as well, so a bit of an exodus.

8:45Get down the pub with Vita Pereira. Yikes. All right, in other transfer news, Leroy Sané is off from Bayern Munich to Galatasaray. Any other transfer stories I'm skipping out there, Tom? We await the puff of white smoke from the Anfield chimney, re Florian Wurtz, and that it feels like it's going to happen for an absolutely monumental amount of money, but it's not yet, as we record, been announced. That's one to look forward to, to get excited about. Yeah. Man City, by the way, will be taking all three of their new signings, Rangers, Turkey and Aitnori, to the Club World Cup. That is unprecedented, isn't it?

9:27Is it? I think that, I mean, obviously we're used to clubs giving debuts to new signings in pre-season friendlies, but they've invariably been there for two or three weeks, had a chance to meet their teammates and stuff. Whereas this is going to be days after joining the club, right off the back of a very long and quite gruelling season and pitched straight into what is quite a significant competition. And new managers as well. Inter got Kivu, Boca Juniors have got a new manager as well. And Real Madrid, got Xavi Alonso. They've also got one of the most highly rated young prospects, perhaps their very own Lamin Yamal in Mastantuono.

10:12Tim, did you write about him? Because there's a lovely scouting guide to the players to watch out for in the Club World Cup on theathletic.com. Yeah, I've chipped in on a few of those, not him in particular, but I did read about him. And one of the ones I'm looking forward to watching, I write about Milton Delgado at Boca, who's sort of a new number five, who's sort of come in only this year, actually, took advantage of injuries and cemented his place in the team in like January under Fernando Gargo who brought him in and he seems to be sacked but Delgado's thought of as the next sort of hot number five in Argentinian football and it's him and Ander Herrera in midfield actually What's the number five then?

10:50So sort of a protecting playmaker Okay in the pivot It's like the Argentinian version of the number six I see Is a number five a thing in the way that a number six or a number six Well it depends on how I think it's a number that they give to that kind of player. Right, they. Those guys. The historical quirk in squad number, or team number, isn't it? That they, in a different way. But it does sound funny saying a classic number five. Classic number five. Prasanna Patel says, Chelsea have already signed six players. Pais, Esteval, Penders, Esugo, Saar and De Laap. And they've already spent close to 150 million.

11:31who do you think they should sign next asked Prasano perhaps ironically at the end I'm not sure they've also done a weird thing where they've well not too weird but they've brought their players back from loan like Sterling and Renato Vega who's I think done quite well at Juventus on loan and now has come back but isn't going to the Club World Cup with Chelsea or Juventus who's quite a good player played a lot of football all season but just will not be playing for either team at the Club World Cup because that's Chelsea's decision they've got too many players some of it they must just forget about they've got so many guys Renato Vega's agent oh my god Renato I knew we'd miss someone off is it too late the deadline's going oh god well they also like Pleasant Estaval where they buy them so early and then they never forget they bought them they say when you order something and then it comes like two months later you're like what's this oh yeah I remember there's a young Brazilian lad he says he's the new 80 million pound oh he's arrived he's arrived today oh we left him in the porch live scenes from Chelsea's squad development But also, that highlights to me that this is not still this season.

12:34Because Sterling, for example, he was on loan at Arsenal for the rest of the season. He's now back at Chelsea. He could play at the Pro Bowl Cup, but he isn't. But in theory, he could. That's why, for me, it doesn't work. It's causing great stress in the football media, because morally it's still this season. It is, yeah. So what's the stress? So if you're Arsenal, last season means 2024-25. Right. But if you're Chelsea, you're in the Club World Cup, last season really means 2023-24 because you're still in 2024-25. So it's a bit messy. So will appearance data going forward, the Club World Cup, will count as 2024-25?

13:14It should do, shouldn't it? I read a piece recently where someone referred to 2024-25 as last season and it completely threw me. That would throw me too, Tom. Because I thought they meant 2023-24. Well, traditionally it was once you got to June, then it becomes the last season. but now the Champions League final is off to June 1st. I spit at your traditions, Duncan. Well... Man City will be taking their new signings. They won't be taking Jack Grealish or Kyle Walker. No idea what that decision is based upon. But hey, in unrelated news, next up, let's get on to England, Senegal. This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC podcast network.

14:04What's going on there, Tom Williams? That is the very excitable, understandably excitable, Senegalese commentary on the third Senegal goal. Scored, of course, by Cheikh Sabali. Not Sabali with an I, but with a Y. With a Y. Playing with a smile, ironically, the Senegalese, the Lions of Taranga, who are 22 games now unbeaten. So, you know, you can lose them. That said, Tim Spears, they drew 1-1 with the Republic of Ireland last week. So where does this put things for England? How much outrage are you feeling? Not much, really. Is you not? I mean, England played a reserve team. It was home friendly in June.

14:45There wasn't... City ground. At the city ground, you know. We've been here before. People forget. England, Neil Hungary 4. And then six months later, England were really good at that World Cup in Qatar. A year ago, lost 1-0 home to Iceland on the eve of the Euros. Had a good Euros. Right. Under Gareth Southgate, both of those. Yeah. So there's been a certain amount of reaction. Fionn D, for example, writing and saying, so why did we get rid of Southgate? Daniel Storr equally says, it feels, insert your own sigh here, like we have thrown semifinals and finals away for a gunfire, a short-term tactician who isn't going to get anywhere near enough time to implement any of this effectively.

15:24Sigh. The problem with Southgate was at major tournaments, England weren't tactically flexible enough. Their substitutions were negative and not proactive. I thought England were a bit too defensive. We don't know about any of these things yet. They haven't played a proper, competitive, decent game yet. The Serbia games and the qualifiers will tell a hint, but we won't do anything until the next World Cup. The June friendly in a non-tournament year is the lowest ebb of an England cycle. It really is. I mean, it's just, the players just, you know, already going to the airport to go on holiday. It's, some of the reaction was a little over the top.

16:01Over the top? Yeah, yeah. There are some concerns to be had, for sure. I think the concern is he keeps picking Jordan Henderson and Carl Walker. Yeah, that would be one. Like, move on. I don't know whether that's... Why do you think he's doing that? I think Hendo, to give him his real name, is good in the dressing room, you know, which managers like. Tidying up? Yeah. Picking up socks? Yeah, yeah. but I don't think he's it's a year to the World Cup he's going to be a year older that's how time works and I don't think Jordan Henderson is going to be lining up for England in America what about Kyle Walker well what about the Ivan Tony controversy flown over from Saudi Arabia for these two games Andorra and Senegal but that why does it matter where it's come from do you know what I mean I think if you're still playing for Brentford would people say a thing if he was still playing for Brentford?

16:55Well, I think it's the same principle, but it was highlighted. It was underlined, if you will. I did find that a curious element of the coverage. He's had to get on a plane to get here. Do you know how long it is from Saudi Arabia? As if footballers don't spend their literal entire lives getting on and off planes to go to Manchester. They will probably fly to the city ground for Premier League games. Preston probably flew there as well. Well, we're a bit short on outrage. Tom, can you help out? Well, no, I was just going to say, I didn't watch this game with a huge amount of enthusiasm, sleepy, end of season, England friendly in June.

17:29I actually thoroughly enjoyed it. Found it a lot more entertaining than I was expecting to. And I thought Senegal were excellent. You look at their starting XI, and they should be. They're packed full of good players. Premier League, Stolworts, some of the guys who play regularly in Ligue 1, Lamine Kamara in midfield, Habib Diarro scored one of the goals, Crepan Diata, the right back, who was at Monaco. I thought Ilyman Ndiay was fantastic on the right. The left back, Elhaj Malik Diouf, who I'd not heard of, I thought was brilliant. The only player who really kind of messed up at all was Edouard Mendy on the goal.

18:05What's the name of the right back again? The right back is Crepan Diouf. Oh, sorry. So what was the next player you mentioned? Elhaj Malik Diouf. And I looked him up and he was born in 2004. So he is almost certainly named after the great Elhaj Diouf. Wow. But yeah, they were brilliant and, you know, deserved winners. And I'm not sure how much of a, how much of an achievement being the first African team to ever be England feels like to them, I suspect it probably feels, you know, pretty significant. And I think it's gone to a team, you know, who are decent and, you know, deserve to be, deserve to be picking up, you know, accolades for the, for the quality of their football.

18:43I'll just say, we forget that there were so many of these games under Southgate, and we forget because they were so forgettable. But they happened all the time. I don't have huge concerns. He hasn't had a honeymoon period, and the players don't look completely harmonious, which might be a bit of an issue. Build-ups to tournaments. Terry Venables before Euro 96, England were awful for about two years. They drew every game pretty much. It was just loads of turgid friendlies at Wembley. But, I mean, they weren't that great at Euro 96, but apart from against the Netherlands but you know it has no bearing on the No it doesn't the Southgate thing just annoys me it's far too soon to be talking about that where you can compare him with Southgate what I really don't like what he's done is his comments about Bellingham in an interview yesterday suggesting that his behaviour on the field can be repulsive now obviously he's speaking in his second language so you've got to maybe cut some slack on that and I've read it not heard it so I don't know if it's taken that context but it's a very strong word to use and the general the general vibe is that he's having a having a knock at his on-field behavior which is the first sign of him being abrasive with his players and he falls out with his players uh doesn't bode well for me i i find the comments quite disappointing actually again maybe they've been taken out of context maybe not but to start criticizing your pretty much your best player in public.

20:07I just don't understand what he's going to achieve from that, other than annoy Bellingham, which I'm sure he has done. Yeah, and to use his mum as the sort of conduit to do it as well is a bit strange. Yeah, and that's where Southgate would never do that. He was talking about his own mum, wasn't he? Yeah. Rather than Bellingham's mum. That would have been worse. But is there any good from a manager doing that in any sort of workplace, calling out your top performer and saying their behaviour is a bit repulsive. I suspect repulsive was probably, I think something has been lost in translation slightly.

20:45I don't think he meant repulsive in the way that we understand the word repulsive. I suspect he was looking for a word to reflect a kind of behaviour that people find slightly repellent, perhaps. Maybe that was the word he was looking for? And he ended up with repulsive. But he also said he sort of intimidates his teammates. I mean, is that true? Is that fair? Possibly. But look at what he's doing in his career. He's one of Real Madrid's best players. He's one of the best players in Europe. Why are we trying to change him already? And you can see this creeping into the media as well. And this always happens.

21:21Well, there was the reaction to his reaction to the disallowed goal, which across various papers amounted to him going full, Cantonar Kung Fu kick on a water cooler but it doesn't seem to be when you watch the footage you seem pretty reasonable about that exactly but he's clearly got a winner's mentality which is something England have lacked in many areas it is repulsive isn't it I don't know it's not a good sign for me and that's where you do miss Southgate I hear you I hear you woof anyway there you go England's next game will be against Brave Andorra That would be at Wembley on the 6th of September, very much in next season by then, of course.

22:04With that in mind, what else happened internationally? Well, Tom, you went off to Brussels as a civilian to watch Belgian Wales. What prompted that trip? The desire to go and watch Wales away in a pleasant European capital. this may have come up before Duncan yes and a friend of mine was going my friend Dom sorted us out with tickets and yeah it was a very enjoyable trip and it momentarily looked as if we were about to witness something truly historic before that it wasn't quite as enjoyable because you found yourself 3-0 down in short 3-0 down inside 27 minutes an extremely soft penalty which Romelu Lukaku scored a really nicely taken Yuri Tilleman's goal and then a very poorly defended Jeremy Doku goal.

22:57And Belgium hadn't really had to do much. They hadn't had to push all that hard. Wales were a bit too open. Craig Bellamy had talked about how they were going to go on the attack. And yeah, 3-0 down, less than half an hour on the clock, wondering how bad it's going to get. Wales reduced the arrears in first-half stoppage time, Harry Wilson penalty, and then scored a beautifully constructed goal. Sorba Thomas teed up by Harry Wilson six minutes into the second half and suddenly the Wales end is just full of belief. Brennan Johnson, teed up by Sorba Thomas, equalises 20 minutes from the end. And if you'd called full-time there, I think every Wales fan would have taken it to come from 3-0 down away from home.

23:40Hardest game in the group. We've got this good record against Belgium. So there's always that belief that, you know, there's a chance of doing something. Belgium go back on the attack. Lukaku has a goal ruled out because the ball had gone out of play after like a VAR stoppage of about four minutes. And I must admit, I very rarely go to top level matches as a fan these days. I think there may be four or five VAR reviews during the game and they just killed it. I mean, every single time, I think like four or five of the seven goals had to be VAR reviewed. Anyway, 3-3, a couple of minutes left to go.

24:17Wales clear a corner, don't defend the second ball. Kevin De Bruyne goes in at the back post and tucks it in. Left foot, I mean, that beautifully taken goal. Belgium 4, Wales 3. But yeah, a very enjoyable excursion nevertheless. Just on the subject of VAR, you'll be excited to know that for the Club World Cup, FIFA have announced among the innovations that VAR images will be played out on the screens in the stadiums, they'll also be speeding up the process with a brand new semi-automated but even more automated offside. OK, that sounds positive. It does, doesn't it? Are the refs going to be announcing this?

24:53That feels like the kind of thing FIFA would are. The refs will be announcing their decisions. Is it still semi-automated if it's even more automated? It's kind of three-quarters. Yeah, yeah, very automated. Very automated, I think, is the official tag. The referees will also be sporting eye-level cameras. So there will be eye-level ref cam available once the footage is reviewed. Other innovations include the fact that goalkeepers will have slightly longer to hold on to the ball before they... Do you handle that then, Duncan? IFAB, they're seeing this as 25-26 because they're bringing in the new time-wasting role for this tournament, which is...

25:33Which conversely allows goalkeepers longer to hold on to the ball. Well, yes, before it was six seconds, now it's eight. But now if they do breach the eight-second mark, which the referee should be telling them by making his arm look like a clock. So excitingly, he's going to count to five in his head with his hand aloft, and once he gets to five, he's going to start doing the old Ted Rogers 3-2-1 with his fingers. And apparently that's going to be a feature of every single game. I'm in favour of this. When they first brought in the 5-6 second rule, keepers did get done for it. And it was tremendous because the fans were just there.

26:10How many seconds are there? 5, 6, 7. but what happens here if the 8 second mark is breached yes you get a corner the other team get a corner the other team get a corner and that's funny because someone's going to score from one of those corners and a manager is going to lose his man oh yes wait you can't wait take it all back and we'll watch every single game yeah there you go you're going to need decent eyesight to see the 3-2-1 from like the halfway line you know if you're short I mean short sighted goalkeepers aren't that prevalent at the top level I don't think you're going to have other issues of thinking I prefer like the The countdown style.

26:43I think in the Lord. Oh, like... In the Lord. Your arm's in the position of the arms of the clock. Right, yeah. In the Lord. Yeah, but just... No, the countdown only has one arm, though, doesn't it? If they play the countdown theme over the... Then it would be clear. Then it would be clear. Surely Johnny would be into that. Do-do-do-do-do-corner. There you go. Goal. Well, that's one for Pierluigi Colina and IFAB to consider. Anyway, sorry, we were talking about your exciting trip to Brussels, which ended on a bittersweet note but still a terrific night. Yes, I got over my disappointment by going back to the same burger stall that I'd been to pre-game and ordering the same burger.

27:20What? I didn't mean to order a burger. I was hoping for some chips. Right. Because I've been in Brussels. What language are they speaking? I mean, it should have been straightforward. But by the time I got to the burger stall, they were out of everything. They had one burger left. And it was the same burger. No, it was not the exact same burger. Is this Brussels the only place you can buy food in Brussels? No, but I'd had a good time there first time around. They had a sauce called Brazil sauce that I never encountered before, which I think had pineapple in. Well, I've been to many bike races in Belgium, and the array of mayonnaises and sauces is world-leading.

27:57And, yeah, some of them have samurai sauce and all sorts of stuff. Yeah, yeah, Brazil sauce. I think it was quite a sweet... I think they said there was pineapple in it. Anyway, I had that on this hamburger. And it was great twice, even better second time around, because I was disappointed by then. There you go. Which stadium was that? What ground was that? This is the, well, this is the King Badwin Stadium. OK, so if you're in the area and visiting a game. Not a particularly pleasant stadium, but if you're looking for a pre - or post-game pick-me-up. Perhaps both.

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30:57This is the Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. The Athletic is the only place you can read articles by Daniel Taylor, Amy Lawrence, Phil Hay, James Pearce, Oli Kaye and the very best football writers around. Let's just catch up on one or two other bits of international news. Memphis Depay, like Tom's Burger, is on a roll. He became Netherlands all-time joint top scorer with a brace against Malta on Tuesday. Depay in a row. It's a working crowd, wasn't it? Depay scored the first two in an 8-0 victory over the Maltese. That was part of World Cup qualifying. Poland's record goal scorer Robert Lewandowski has forced a regime change with his national team.

31:41He quit the national side over his disagreements with Mikhail Prybietz, who'd taken the captaincy from him, possibly used the word repulsive, I don't know, given said armband to Piotr Zielinski. and without Lewandowski, who was sitting it out in an assault, Poland went and lost to Finland. Pribitz has now taken the decision to step down. What else? We mentioned Brazil's win earlier. If you haven't seen the phenomenal Luis Diaz run and strike for Colombia in their clash with Argentina, which finished 1-1 in a rematch last summer's Copa America final, I urge you to go and seek it out. Any other goals that were really great?

32:23The equaliser in that game, Thiago Armada of Lyon. I mean, not a Luis Diaz level goal, but a nice finish. And he will be taking on the mantle from the now departed Ryan Cherky at Lyon next season. So one to keep an eye on unless they get administratively relegated to Ligue 2. Is that still very much in the balance? Could still happen. There is a meeting with the French football financial watchdog coming up. In the next fortnight, I think. Okay. This is to our Euro show. We know all about this. Can you sum it up in two sentences for anyone who hasn't? In a word, in a noise. But so basically, Lyon's books have not quite added up.

33:10And they were issued with a sort of provisional administrative relegation to the French second tier at the end of the season and given a few months to get there. finances in order. Obviously, we don't know whether or not they have. They managed to sell quite a few players, various other things, but we are still awaiting the final verdict. Crikey. It was quite a beefy game, actually, I was in seeing a combi. Lionel Messi and James Rodriguez had some open, well, I say open beef, but they had their mouths covered by their hands. Like Tom, with his open beef. His beef wasn't open. Too much beef. And there was some studs-high beef from Enzo Fernandes who basically kicked someone in the head and got sent off.

33:56It was sort of like the De Jong World Cup final one. So Howard Webb would have given a yellow card. But the guy was riding around in agony and you kind of want to really exaggerate. And then he sort of stands up and he's got a huge bump on his head and it looked absolutely disgusting. And then, yeah, Fernandes obviously sent off. So yeah, it was quite a lot of beef in that game. It was good fun. Italy news. The Italians managed to win a game. They beat Moldova 2-0 on Monday night in what was that municipality's final game in charge. It won't be Claudio Ranieri who's taking over. James Horncastle breaking this decision down for us on The Athletic, saying that basically if Claudio wanted to stay as a manager, he would have just continued with Roma.

34:43Thank you very much. And he let the federation know this. The Gazette have very much the opinion that it was the evil Freakins, the American owners of Roma, who'd got in his ear over this. But in now looks, in fact this may even be confirmed today, Thursday, as though Gennaro, the growler, Gattuso will be taking over. Ay caramba. Anyway, all very exciting for Italy, who rocket up to third place in their group, still nine points behind the leaders, Norway, ahead of their next game, which is against Estonia on the 5th of September. Reminds me of my favourite ongoing stat. What's that then? Which is that since Italy won the World Cup in 2006, they've won one single match at a World Cup.

35:25And it was against Roy Hodgson's England in 2014. Good Lord. It's mad, isn't it? That is mad. That was there in Manaus. Oh, yeah? In the steamy Amazon. Munching on a burger. Yes, almost certainly. Crocodile burger. Cracking scrum, actually, in Brazil. Right. Yeah, and Claudio Marchisio with the goal from a lovely Andrea Pirlo dummy. That was the game where Raheem Sterling famously hit the side netting. If you said to someone, name the most famous side net hit in football, I think that would be me. Sterling. First chance for him to run, maybe. And to easily jink past Coletta. And go for goal. Goodness me, that was close.

36:06The pub that I was in in Birmingham, the celebrations were so wild that the big screen sort of collapsed. It was like a standalone one. So that went down and we were all celebrating very noisily. So we had no idea that it was disallowed until the play was well restarted. What a story, Tim. There's a long read in that, surely. I was just thinking of. By the way, I've just moved to point out that I had one of the greatest burgers of my recent experience on Monday in Presita Park Cafe and Grill. It's called The Fire Burger and it was insanely good. I asked for it as raw as possible. and my word it was raw but just juicy as heck how spicy?

36:48there was a bit of jalapeno in there where's the greatest burger you've had of late? Burger and Beyond in Shoreditch really? yeah so we're rating burgers they've had a burger for some time have you not? I used to love a burger called The Cliff but I don't know if they still make them anymore I think that was Burger Beyond actually Anyway, England weren't the only team beaten heavily at home in a friendly and booed off by their own fans on Tuesday, by the way. There was also the USA, Mauricio Pochettino's USA, who lost 4-0 to Switzerland in national. The Swiss scoring all four goals in a 23-minute spell in the first half against a national team of the USA who have now lost four games in a row for the first time in 18 years.

37:39We caught up with the Athletics' Paul Tenorio after the game, and we began by asking him where, after four straight defeats in charge, this leaves Big Mauricio.

37:52I think it's fairly serious because he's kind of battling on multiple fronts right now. Going into this summer, it became complicated because then, you know, Christian Pulisic asked for the summer off. He felt he needed rest after playing 50 games for Milan for the second season in a row. and Anthony Robinson got a knee surgery and Weston McKinney and Tim Way are at the Club World Cup and Serginio Dest's knee is not 100 % ready yet. Valerian Baligan is out injured. So all of these regulars started to drop off the team. And so more and more of these kind of B or C team players came into the group.

38:27And so now kind of the idea of injecting one or two or three or four personalities into the team to send a message, I think has backfired, right? Because this group, the way that they lost yesterday, they were not up to the level of Switzerland, the players that were on the field. And to be clear also, I should note, Pochettino rotated nine new players into the team from the group that lost 2-1 to Turkey. And those players, the players who started against Turkey, are more likely to, quote-unquote, push the Weston McKennies and the Yunus Musas and those types. you know but but it still sends the wrong message i think and and they didn't have that energy and emotion and so now you get to a point again where you're fighting on multiple friends where the message you're trying to send your best players is falling flat because they're looking at that performance saying we're not really concerned about these guys pushing us the message to the fans is falling flat because you've now lost four in a row and it was a listless performance last night against Switzerland.

39:32You know, where is the hope coming from? And Pochettino, you know, I don't think feels fully comfortable in this job yet. You know, he gave this interview with Andres Cantor, the famous broadcaster, who's based here in the US does Telemundo, the famous goal calls here in the US. Cantor is an Argentinian just like Pochettino. And as part of that interview, he talked about some of the discourse of, you know, does Pochettino understand the culture of American soccer. And it was clear Pochettino had heard that and was offended by that. And he spoke about, you know, of course we know the culture and the culture of football is universal.

40:09It's global. And it just seems like he is kind of trying to put out fires left, right and center. And I don't really know where he gets out of it. You know, the hope would be, of course, that the U.S. puts a little bit of a run together this summer's Gold Cup with this kind of pieced together team. But really, it puts an enormous amount of pressure on Mauricio Pochettino for September, October, and November in those friendlies where you hopefully get kind of the full team together and start really trying to do something that builds anything positive ahead of the World Cup. Well, the Gold Cup gets underway this weekend.

40:5116 teams, including the US, of course, and Saudi Arabia, who've been invited a special guest, which is heartwarming. Also starting this weekend, we've got the Club World Cup also taking place in the United States. At least that's been a roaring success so far, eh? With the tickets to the opener hard to give away. Is that right, Paul? Yeah. I mean, look, I expect that the knockout rounds of this tournament are going to be well attended. I think people will get excited by some of these games as the tournament moves on. But right now, you know, they're not. There are matchups that aren't that appealing.

41:25I think the decision to place Inter-Miami games in Miami, if you're worried about selling tickets, was the wrong idea. Messi sells out stadiums all around the country, and you stuck him in the biggest stadium in the home market where people can go watch him every single weekend for$30 and expect him to buy these tickets for$100,$200 is where the price has started. And that just kind of fell on its face. I think, you know, this summer is so important for me in kind of some of the institutions to recognize, you know, what this American market is about. You know, I'm writing a book about the Messi effect, and the book is about Messi's arrival here, but it's really about where the sport is in this country.

42:04There is an enormous appetite for football in the U.S., enormous. But, you know, these fans are also, they're no longer kind of new to it. We can watch any Premier League game on the weekend, literally any game. We can watch the Bundesliga, the La Liga, Champions League. Every single competition there is, we have access to it by the push of a button. And fans want the best and they want good product. And so I think there is going to be a moment here where, you know, FIFA has a reckoning of kind of what the expectations are, the saturation of the sport in the market, where the prices should be.

42:39I think Major League Soccer is going to have a reckoning in seeing its teams go up against some of the better teams in the world and some of the better teams in this hemisphere. And I think U.S. soccer is getting a reckoning as well in Mauricio Pochettino in terms of the strength of its pool. It's an enormously important summer for kind of looking in the mirror, I think, for American soccer. Paul, last summer was an important one, too, with the Copa America in the States. And prices were a problem then, as well as pitches and policing. Very briefly, do you think this summer's tournament is going to suffer from those same issues as regards the last two or have lessons been learned?

43:16Well, I think the biggest difference between last summer and this is that FIFA staging this tournament, whereas CONMEBOL staged the Copa America. And that's where I think the trouble started. CONMEBOL looked at the success of the Copa America Centenario in 2016, which was run not by CONMEBOL, but by CONCACAF, Major League Soccer's marketing arm, Soccer United Marketing, and U.S. soccer. Well, what they saw was that those companies made a tremendous amount of money on a Conmebol tournament. So Conmebol took over operations. They had very little experience staging a tournament in this country. And I think that's where you saw issues with kind of the ticket prices.

43:52I think certainly that's where you saw issues with security at the Copa America final. And the pitches, I think, will be a non-issue completely because this is being used as a test run for next summer's World Cup. The pitches that are being put together here in this country are being shipped to the stadiums where that are going to host world cup games next year there's a much different way to put the field on to over top of the plastic turf it should play much differently it did in march in the nation's league in los angeles so i don't think there will be a repeat of last summer and i think i hope coma ball maybe learned some lessons as well about it's not so simple to stage a tournament now again it was an enormous financial success for coma ball which i think is what they they were mostly concerned about but you know That'll be the case with the tournaments this summer too and with next summer.

44:38Again, there is this enormous appetite for the sport in this country. People are going to go to these games. They're going to pay top dollar once we get to the knockouts to go watch teams like Real Madrid and Bayern Munich. But the logistical side of things, it's still complicated. And I think an organization like FIFA will have a better grip of that than Colmenball did.

45:00Paul Tenorio. Well, as we say, 8 o 'clock Saturday night, local time, Miami time, 1 a.m. in the UK. It is Inter-Miami against Al-Ali. If you are in the Embryon, sounds like you can still get a ticket. We'll be having a little bit more chat about that tournament and also bringing you the draw for this summer's Inter-Totally Cup next.

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48:52This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. All right, Tom, now that you're fully excited about the Club World Cup, anything else that you're eager to see in this 32-team event? I mean, it's a classic World Cup format, except instead of national sides, you've got clubs, haven't you? Clubs from six continents and 20 countries. competing for a total prize pool of, inserts index finger,$1 billion. I mean, I'm intrigued as to how PSG will get on as newly crowned European champions. And again, one of the novelties of this tournament is that they are not putting this title on the line, but they are putting their freshly acquired status as Europe's best team and ergo the world's best team on the line.

49:42A match of days after scaling the mountain of the Champions League at long last. And yeah, Atletico Madrid in the first fixture. There are easier opening games to have to contend with. Ousmane Dembele is with the squad, but is injured. He's got a thigh injury, so I don't think he'll be involved against Atletico. And I think they'll be hoping that he can play some part later on. But yeah, it's sort of interesting to see how particularly the big European clubs approach it. Is there a potential advantage for particularly the South American clubs that the European clubs coming off the back of a long season?

50:22Historically, these kind of intercontinental tournaments, you've tended to see super motivated South American clubs and big European clubs who aren't really sure how much they care about it. But now with a billion dollars on the table, a big table. A cool billion. A cool billion. And that's why it's going to be so important. And that's why they're already talking about it. It might be every two years. That's why they're already talking about it. It might be 48 teams next time. Just make it stop. It is too big, I think. Even before it started, I mean, it's FIFA, obviously, but logic would suggest you'd get to 16 teams first, see how it goes, and then expand to 32.

51:02The 32 team, though, it's a classic. It's a well-tried. Yeah, as a tournament format, it's good. but I don't know top two go through but there are things wrong with it I mean the quality some of the teams there are some teams that shouldn't be there you know Infantino's already calling it the greatest club competition and this will be you know you'll get the champions of the world there but Red Bull Salzburg are there and yeah they are it's ridiculous and the champions of England Italy and Spain are not there and I don't know how you work that with qualification but it doesn't feel right on the FIFA ranking on the coefficient but it was apparently you couldn't have more than two teams from a nation even though Brazil have got four and America have got three MLS have got three so Red Bull Salzburg are there representing the Bundesliga brackets the other one so yeah good luck I mean at least with the 32 team format we can the structure of the rest of the tournament is there like if PSG win the group as we expect and Inter Miami scrape through in second in their group that will be PSG Inter Miami in the first knockout stage which I think would be quite a poignant moment seeing Messi up against a team who are, as Tom said, the best in the world, we think, right now.

52:14So, yeah. I think it's good. The way that the Club World Cup was always sort of shoved into December with four teams and nobody really watched it, it deserved better than that. My only concern is for the players. Obviously, it is an insane... For all these players, they're not having a summer holiday at all, really. And obviously the reasons behind it, as is everything with FIFA and football in general, It's just all about finances and politics. But hopefully a good tournament comes out of it. You do worry that the European teams are going to be too fatigued and not care enough. It could also impact the following season or perhaps the same season.

52:51I can't make head or tail of it anymore. But what this will mean for Chelsea and Man City having a month in fairly humid conditions in the United States. Chelsea, by the way, begin their campaign on Monday against Olivier Giroud's LAFC. Also in that group are Esperanza Tunis. Who else is in that group? Flamengo. Oh, Flamengo out of Brazil. That's quite exciting. Man City, you have to wait until Wednesday, Tom, to see them. They'll be up against... Wydad, as any child will say many times. There you go. Wydad out of Morocco. Yeah. That's Wednesday. Also in their group are Juventus and Alain of the United Emirates, who are winners of the Asian Champions League.

53:35the season before last or possibly last season depending upon your viewpoint. 23-24 anyway. But there's loads to look forward to and there's loads of it. It's all free to air on DAZN and lots of it will be on Channel 5 as well, particularly at weekends, Tim. There are some good legends. Cavani's going to be there for Boca Juniors. Sergio Ramos, we're there for Monturi. Thiago Silva's going to be there as well, Fluminense. And Messi Suarez, obviously. Di Maria, this is his last shot at the end. Thomas Muller's last game to Bayern. Yeah. A few nice narratives. There you go. But no Scott Carson for City.

54:09So, you know, that's a blight. Well, we'll be on Tuesday, I think, rounding up the opening matches. Before that, there'll be another episode of the very, very fascinating Totally Gold podcast, which if you haven't got across our opening one, it was basically producer Charlie dusting off the shows we did back in the pandemic lockdown era when there was no football and we took the opportunity to have a proper rummage, proper rumination over some of the classic Premier League seasons and it's just quite remarkable actually what comes out of that and how much I've forgotten it in the last five years.

54:50There you go. Next up, time for the InterTotally Cup draw.

54:59Listen up. Here we go. it's totally cut time is it this season's or next season's it's totally cut we just don't know what we do know is that producer Charlie has just been into the studio with a bowl and some pieces of paper pieces of paper containing names I can reveal that among those names is our very own Duncan Alexander Mr Quiz that's what they say that's what they call him and a man who's looking to reach the final for the third year running Tim a man by the name of Tom Williams Tim you yourself will be doing the draw for us by reaching into that bowl and pulling out some of those pieces of paper in time honoured fashion do you want to say a few words first or just get into it no I'm just really excited what about you Tom do you want to say a few words you want to wait and see who you get in the draw yes I don't want to preempt things it could be literally anyone we'll take them all happy to be here once again You've got to beat the best if you want to win.

56:01Just padding out the content here a little bit. Anyone? I think I'd like to get Benji early doors. Would you? Yeah. Why? Just get in his head, I think. Yeah, he'll overthink it. Well, let's find out, shall we? Tim, there are eight names in the bowl. Let's see who gets whom. Just give him a good stir. That's making a strange noise, that bowl, isn't it? Crazy sound, thanks. One's on fire. Weird. First one out is number seven. Number seven, Duncan Alexander. Quid subprimo. Got him a home draw. Against.

56:36Number two. Number two, producer Charlie. Winner of this very event. And shadowy supremo of the entire thing. But winner of this entire event in 2023. Wow. How do you feel about that, Duncan? It's a tough draw. We'll do our best. But, I mean, you're up against the system. You're up against big quiz in the form of the man who can edit the literal podcast that this is broadcasting. cast on so yeah i'll do i'll just do what i can i'll have a pre-match burger maybe a post-match burger and see how we go excellent all right on with the draw tim next up is number three number three michael cox winner in 2020 2021 and 2024 who'll be getting coxie number eight daniel's story the winner in 2022 so you've got the men who picked up four out of five into totally cups going head to head in the opening round blimey it's extraordinary isn't it wow what's next tim next up number five number five tom williams it's you tom runner up in 2023 and 2024 got you both a home draw that's all you can ask for against number one against number one charlie eckershare runner up in 2022 tom the two fellows who've been runner up for three years straight how do you feel yeah they're calling it the the clash of the bridesmaids um and you've never faced charlie eckleshire before yeah which is good to know that even as we enter this our fifth sixth maybe sixth season whatever it is the competition is still throwing up fresh you know fresh content all over again yeah who'd have thought that charlie eckleshire and i two such doyens of the football quiz game could have managed to avoid each other up to now we could see another 5-0 as well watch this space well that only leaves two names to be drawn out of the hat but let's do them number four number four is Julien Laurent the player who has competed in the most intertotally matches without ever winning the competition well that's a wenger and he will if everything's gone to plan let's hope there's only one left Oh yeah, there is And he will be up against Benji Laniado Number 6 Benji Laniado, who was runner-up in 2021 Extraordinarily high-class line-up here, Tim, no?

59:02Yeah, and a good draw, I think Some good ties there You've got a niche one, you've got a super-classico Those draws again, Michael Cox facing Daniel Storey Four titles between them Julian Laurents against runner-up in 2021, Benji Laniado. Duncan Alexander, who was eyeing up Benji, but instead will be taking on producer Charlie. And Tom Williams, facing Charlie Eccleshair. Crikey, the first matchup will be taking place next week in either our Tuesday or Thursday show, and I'm not going to say which list, so you'll have to listen to both to find out. Unless it's in the Tuesday show, in which case you're not.

59:41We need to wait for the TV schedules to come out first and then see which one it's going to be. I think Duncan Charlie got sort of Sunday 4pm rail on over it. That's the key prime time slot. Yeah. Woof. Excellent. What a high point to end this edition of the Totally Football Show. We have got Totally Gold coming up on Monday. Tom, next week's edition, that'll be about the 94-95 season. and famous for Blackburn winning the title and for an early bath for Mr Cantona. Off, off, off. But it wound him up and we all know what happened. What a season. The first great last day of the Premier League year.

1:00:24And Cole at Upton Park. In the black hit, Ludek McCloscoe, performing miracles between the sticks. Helicopters. Helicopters, all that. Four teams go down that year, is that right? Yeah. Wicker missed out on the playoffs in League One because only the top team went up and then the next four still ran calls. Crikey. Relive that drama, listener. Relive it when Totally Gold reaches you on Monday morning. Or stick around for some fresh football action in our Tuesday show. For now, many, many thanks to producer Charlie, to producer Liam, to Duncan Alexander, Tom Williams, Tim Spears and above all you, listener.

1:01:07And do have a great weekend. We'll catch up with you soon. For now, from all of us here, it's goodbye.

1:01:16You've been listening to The Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. For more great football podcasts like this one, including The Athletic FC and our six dedicated club podcasts, search for The Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. The Totally Football Show is an Athletic Media Company production.

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