Totally Extra: Boxing Day '63, Phil Brown and all things festive football...

0:00The Athletic FC

0:09Totally Extra. Today, festive football edition. We park the XG for the X-Mas to talk about why the game is so special at this time of year. There's our favourite Christmas football memories from Phil Brown to Felix Mourinho. There's late December back in 63 while they really had a ding-dong merrily. Christmas cards, a special yuletide sac-a-mail and probably a partridge in a pear tree too. All in this Christmas Totally Extra.

0:43You there, boy. What day is this? Well, it's 10 a.m. on Friday the 18th of December for us, but don't mind that because it's probably the 27th of December or thereafter for you, and therefore very much in the thick of what I like to call Duncan Alexander, the festive football period. Ho, ho, ho. Indeed so. Duncan's here with us, as is Charlie Eccleshire. Hello. Merry holidays to you, Charlie. Thanks very much. Thank you. Merry holidays to you as well. And joining us from his tinsel-decorated loft, it's Daniel Storey. Hi, Daniel. Festive greetings, James. Festive greetings to you. Oh, and very much to you too.

1:24Is that your stocking hanging up there on the wall beside you? It does look like a stocking. It isn't one, but let's go with yes. All right, then. It's Christmas is the most special football time of the year for many people. So today we have a totally extra that's dedicated to Christmas football. There'll be fun. There'll be games. There'll be kind of family getting grumpy about things. In this case, Duncan with the 1963 Boxing Day results. But don't worry, we can cheer Duncan up with the mailbag. Loads of questions. Thanks, listener, for writing in at this time of year. Rich says, which of the current Premier League managers would make the best and worst Father Christmas?

2:09I've got no idea myself. Charlie? Who would make the best and worst Father Christmas? Anyone? We can move on if you like. I think Sean Dyche would throw himself into it and quite enjoy being the centre of attention and, you know, having some fun with it. I feel like his delivery might be a little bit scary for the toddlers, though. Would he modify it? Can he modify it? I don't know. That can be modulated. I think in kindliness terms, Andoni Arreola would be quite good. Oh, yeah. I think, you know, sit on his lap, he'd give you some tactical advice and, you know, a little present. I think Michael Arteta would be too intense.

2:42Way too intense. Oliver Glasner could be good. I feel like Michael Arteta in a little elf hat would be very, very Santa's helper. Yeah. Guys. Daniel. I think Daniel Farker is quite a good, got quite good Santa vibes, maybe. Yeah. Yeah, and I've gone Rob Edwards for the worst, I think, because it's just, yeah. Too handsome. Yeah, he looks more like the kid getting the present than the guy giving him. So true. Pep would be the worst. He just totally wouldn't get it. He would start lecturing the kids, and it would all get a bit weird and awkward. Nobody wrote in asking about the Grinch, otherwise I'd have David Moyes as my Grinch nominee.

3:25Other questions that have been written in. Hey, Tom Edwards says, statistically, which player with festive connotations has the best goal contribution most appearances in the Premier League during December? That's a long question, but should we just discuss which players with festive connotations you can name? We can do that. I mean, I'm going to look that up while we podcast. Tom Edwards offers Noel Whelan, Rocky Santa Cruz, which is the winner, Gabriel Jesus, Andy Carroll, Brett Angel, Angel is it? Angel? Angel, yeah. Angel, yeah. and misses extraordinarily to Johnny Reindeer's. What's that about?

4:01Well, if we're talking names and Christmas, it's always intrigued me that Alexis McAllister's born on Christmas Eve, but Gary McAllister was born on Christmas Day. And the McAllister's Home Alone, Christmas film. So it's, yeah. And obviously Alexis' brother is literally called Kevin. Literally called Kevin. Right. AC Jimbo writes, Hey, that's me. Are Man City the most perfect Christmas team of all? Because they've got both Reindeers and Cherokee. They're frequently gifted, look impressive in the box, and always fully charged. And in company, KDB and Dokku, they've had loads of players who love Brussels.

4:44That's very good. Thank you very much. James Ashcroft says, Other than 1963, does Boxing Day actually produce more goals than any other fixture day? Well, James Ashcroft will be touching on that in the body of today's show. Other missives. Christopher Sullivan, this is a poignant tale. Christopher went to QPR versus Liverpool as a five-year-old and cried all the way there because he thought it was going to be a big fight on Boxing Day. How long did it take you to understand what Boxing Day represented? well I don't think I ever feared violence but I didn't get the concept for quite a long time nobody knows St Stephen's Day of course is a less scary name for it at least this year is a normal Christmas because it's always confusing where if the 26 is on the weekend technically Boxing Day is like the Monday yeah it rolls over doesn't it for people that record stuff about football on Boxing Day it's a minefield Do you actually mean December the 27th?

5:48No, I actually still mean December the 26th. Stop messing with the calendar. Stop messing with the calendar. Crikey, what's the best football-related Christmas present you've ever received, Daniel? Or given? I'll go with received because I'm selfish. I remember in 1997, I got both FIFA Road to the World Cup 98 computer game with a PlayStation and the second Spice Girl album on the same morning. So Santa was incredibly kind. And I had this kind of vision of me sort of not wanting to go to the Christmas dinner table because I had both in perfect synergy, audio and visually. Right. That would have drowned out Song 2, which was the theme tune to that game, which was pretty spectacular.

6:33Wow. It was indeed. What was your favourite? That got its time to shine. What was your favourite cut on whatever the second Spice Girls album was called? Too Much? I think that's probably the best one, isn't it? That was the big single at the time. Yeah, okay.

6:51That's the only football connection to the Spice Girls, probably. Oh, we always have a quiz question in our totally extras. Today, let's call it a quiz question. And it is, so Duncan, you might want to park your research because producer Charlie says, name the top five goal scorers on Boxing Day in Premier League history. Have you already looked this up, Duncan? All right. We let it percolate, don't we? You've got five to play with. We can all try and nominate one, see how we get on. I've got one in my head because I often use it as a kind of example of bad stats. Okay. Is there such a thing? I think there can be.

7:31I think it can be used badly as Duncan knows. Right. Do you want to say the one? Well, the one that I think is in this top five is Harry Kane. this is top boxing day in Premier League and why is that a bad stat because I remember him doing it one year he scored on boxing day whatever it was and in Opta's pack it was like Harry Kane is now up there with the player who scored most goals on boxing day and everyone ran with it because you know when you see a stat you just think oh well there's a stat I've been told it's a stat I'll just repeat it as if it's interesting and I was kind of like is that interesting or revealing Harry Kane's the second top Premier League goal scorer ever totally sounds to reason that he would have scored a lot of goals on this day.

8:14That, to me, isn't that interesting? For a long time, he didn't score in August. Yeah, sure, but he never had those issues at Christmas. But it was like, what are we going to read into that? Harry Kane loves Christmas? Well, although those two facts do pull together one of my favourite Christmas things in football, which is Sheffield United pretending it was Christmas in August because the season before, in the early 90s this was, they had a terrible start and didn't start winning until Christmas. So Dave Harry Bassett the following summer was like, why don't we pretend it's Christmas? Did they really?

8:47And then the front of a programme is them, August the 15th. Tristan Santagir. In fact, that is the programme for the first, the game on the opening day of the Premier League history. That's genius. That's the Brian Dean scoring the first goal in the Premier League history game. and the front cover of the programme is Brian Dean, Dave Bassett and... Who's that? I don't know. But it's all with Christmas. So they should have done that with Harry Kane in August, giving him some September staples. Yeah, yeah. Not sure what those would be necessarily, but trick him. Back to school. Back to school stuff, yeah.

9:20Yeah, exactly, yeah. A sleeve starting to fall. A protractor. Wow, did they use an orange ball and everything? No, there's... It's brilliant psychology, that, though. I mean, Dave Bassett does look quite good as Father Christmas. They're holding like a bumblebee, which is not for me. I think they've just gone to a shop and got an inflatable. But yeah, fair. All right. That's remarkable. All right, well, we're going to talk about loads of Christmas today. Daniel, you want to talk about people getting cards for Christmas. Do you want to do that now or should we save that for after? We have a little dive into Christmas football through the ages with our Almanac.

10:01Yay, everybody. Love a bit of harp at this time of year. It's Christmas Day in football time. The most famous Christmas game of all is altogether now. 25th of December 1914, when soldiers from both sides in the First World War played football against each other in no man's land as part of a brief and unofficial Christmas truce. Christmas League football began back in 1889. Now, on Boxing Day, here's my big Boxing Day news. it only got designated as a public holiday in 1871 just a few years before the Football League was inaugurated and this new and rare concept of a two day break for working folk was seen as the ideal opportunity to give the flat cap masses as much football as possible so a year after the league got founded 1889, giants of that era Preston, North End and Aston Villa met on Christmas Day in what turned out to be a 3-2 victory for North End.

11:02Yay. It was level on XG though, so. Nice. The tradition continued until, poignantly, the final full programme of Christmas Day fixtures, which took place as late as 1957. That is crazy. Yeah. Among the highlights in 1957 was a 17-year-old Jimmy Greaves scoring four goals for Chelsea as they gave Portsmouth a stuffing 7-4. And also reigning First Division champions, Manchester United, who played Luton at Old Trafford on Christmas Day, and again at Kenilworth Road the very next day. Crikey. Among the final matches that the Busby Babes would ever play together, of course. The last Christmas game ever was in 1965, and that was Blackpool against Blackburn at Bloomfield Road.

11:50Who won? Well, Tangerines 4-2. Oh, future World Cup winner Alan Ball among the scorers. On that Blackpool game in 1965, it was originally scheduled for two days later. Apparently they moved it to Christmas Day because they thought that lots of people would go to Blackpool for Christmas on holiday and would need entertainment. It's quite a damning indictment of family company on holiday. Surely that's the one day of the year where you think maybe we don't need extra. Well Christmas Day football may sadly no longer exist but Boxing Day does And thanks to us still having the day off from the factories It's perhaps the most beloved day of the season We'll talk about Boxing Day football next This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson Part of the Athletic FC Podcast Network Alright Duncan you dread Boxing Day like a man in those 1914 trenches but for many people it's a special, special time and I'm pretty sure you usually get about 66 goals in 10 matches the day after Christmas.

12:57Yeah. I should make clear I don't hate Boxing Day football. I hate what Boxing Day football has become since in 2011. We've forgotten the real message of Boxing Day football. Well, I think Boxing Day 1963, which is, you know, everyone will immediately see that slightly grainy Sky Sports screenshot in their mind's eye. it kind of created the modern industrial military industrial complex of nostalgia that we all experience well James Ashcroft I mentioned the question before other than 63 does Boxing Day actually produce more goals than any other fixture day and my kind of knee-jerk response would be very much yes but I'm hoping that after oh go on Charlie well isn't it more just that that was the only day where all the games were played at the same time so it was skewed by that in the same way that the last day of the season was, hang on, you know, all the games.

13:50Duncan's not having that. No, I got the numbers, and like, 1963 is such an outlier. Well, you say that. Well, I am saying that, yeah. That's literally what I'm doing. I'm going to come, come back at you on that. Yeah. All right, so for me, Boxing Day 1919. Yes. So, you know, maybe some of the lads who'd strolled out on 1914 were doing it for real. I hope so. Yeah, I hope so. That would be a lovely thought. That's the lowest score in Boxing Day in history. 1.23, sorry 1.33 goals per game how many games? 10 that is a proper Boxing Day right but yeah my point is 1963 was used as this like look how good football was in the 1960s every Boxing Day people just went and saw I don't know I'm also interested about that as you say grainy Sky Sports graphic before someone some enterprising person at Sky Sports typed that up and stuck it on air did know Was Boxing Day 63 like Pompeii undiscovered for decades?

14:49Exactly. No one had mentioned it. I researched this a few years ago. It first was printed in a paper. I can't remember which one, but someone dug it up. And before then, it had been completely forgotten. It was like a folk memory. Maybe a Fulham fan was like, and it is the last, to be fair to Fulham, it's the last time a team has scored 10 goals in a top flight game. Absolutely. That adds something. At the time of recording. Yes. Ooh, yes. Because we've got Boxing Day since we've, you know, after we record this. And as we know, boxing day, anything can happen. You can't learn anything. But to put it into perspective, Fulham had scored 25 goals in their 23 games before that.

15:23So it wasn't like this. Doesn't that support the point that it's mayhem on boxing day? Yeah, hoisted by your own putain. Boxing day 1963 then, as Frankie Valli said, late December back in 63. What a very special time for the festive football tradition. Let's get into then what actually happened that day and I think crucially why? Although that's going to be a tough one, why? But we'll have a go. 66 goals scored across 10 matches. Six players claimed hat-tricks. No less than three of them actually scored four goals. Duncan, you've already mentioned the most famous of the scorelines that day, or at least the team scoring 10, Fulham, who beat Ipswich 10-1.

16:06And no one's ever scored 10 in a top-division game since. Graham Leggett scored a hat-trick in the space of three. minutes well two minutes and 56 seconds which was like a craze era sadio mane well yeah and it was sadio mane who broke that record because that that was the fastest anyone had ever done it but that was what uh 63 to 2015 that's a lot of years in between a leg had also got fourth later on uh daniel ipswich had been champions what about 16 to 18 months before yeah at the risk of inflaming Duncan even further. That is my takeaway. Ipswich are my takeaway from Boxer Day 1963. They lost 10-1.

16:50As you say, they'd won the league 18 months earlier. They had war Jackie Milburn was manager. And the one way that football has changed, I think we can say since 1963, is patience afforded to managers. Because Ipswich, as you say, champions 18 months earlier, conceded 121 goals that season and finished bottom. and Melbourne kept his job till the September. They lost 9-1 two months later away from home as well. I mean, it's just incredible that you'd be like, well, you've got to give him a go. They went 23 league games without a win that season and he kept his job, which is just brilliant. What happened to the other game from the league?

17:27Because there were 22 teams in the league, weren't there, at that time? So, yeah, Arsenal didn't play and one other team. I don't know. I wonder why that was. I don't know, Charlie. That's maybe the question. Because we think of that as a very modern thing, don't we staggering the games nothing's modern to a degree Preston rotated their goalkeepers in 1888-89 so nothing seriously FA Cup keeper and a league keeper same reasons really if we're talking 1963 and I guess we have to then I want to point out that one of West Brom's goals in their 4-4 draw with Tottenham two of them was scored by Jimmy Green yes one Jimmy was busy around that time he was very much the Harry Kane of his era was one of the West Brom goals for school by Mickey Fudge, which is a very Christmassy name.

18:14That's a terrific name. Other scorelines and details about Boxing Day 1963 included Chelsea's 5-1 win away at Blackpool, Terry Venables, later England manager, with the fifth goal for the Blues, Liverpool beating Stoke 6-1 with Roger Hunt netting four times. Which then Stoke got revenge for in 2015 with the same scoreline in Stephen Gerrard's last game. Wow. Makes you think. Yeah. They're so knowledgeable down there. It wouldn't surprise me. The dish served so cold it had to be served at the Britannia. Best served cold and windy and wet. Yeah. Blackburn beat West Ham. And this is a West Ham team featuring Bobby Moore, Jeff Hurst and Martin Peters and managed by the future England manager Ron Greenwood.

19:02Beat them 8-2. we got absolutely smashed that day Blackburn murdered us they got a standing ovation off the pitch and you could hear a pin drop in the home dressing room afterwards said which young 16 year old West Ham prospect of that match Martin Peters Harry Redknapp Harry Redknapp this is a heck of an England manager day Bobby Robson scored for Fulham against Ipswich you mentioned Terry Venables scoring. You've got almost England manager Harry Redknapp as a kind of young lad watching on like a sort of minor Christmas Carol character. It's great stuff. Gareth Southgate was conceived that day.

19:49He wasn't. I think it's generally considered. Burnley, I've got more of them. The hits keep coming. Burnley beat Manchester United 6-1. Andy Lockhead, who later worked so successfully within jury, of course, got four of the goals. United at the time were four points off the top. They had a team as well. Bobby Chanton, Dennis Law, Nobby Styles, and manager Sir Matt Busby, who was so enraged by the 6-1 defeat that he called up a 17-year-old to the first team, cutting short his Christmas celebrations. He played a few days later when United reversed this, almost reversed the scoreline, beating Burnley 5-1.

20:27He scored, didn't he? His name, Charlie, was George Best. Whatever happened to him. Whatever happened to him. Well, it is a feature, though, of those 1963 Boxing Day blowouts. A lot of the return matches, played mostly two days later, saw dramatic reversals of the first scoreline. Man United from 6-1, thrashing to 5-1 win. West Ham from losing 8-2 at home to Blackburn to winning 3-1 at Ewood Park. Even Ipswich hammered 10-1 by Fulham. And so woeful that season, under war, Bobby Milburn, managed a 4-2 victory over the Cottagers when they had them back at theirs at Portman Road. Other examples of this are rife.

21:08In 1960, Plymouth and Charlton played each other home and away. The first match in London on Boxing Day ended 6-4 to Charlton. 24 hours later, they played in Plymouth. The scoreline was 6-4 to Plymouth. Like a tennis match. Tennis score, yeah. Yeah, nice. So, now there is a suggestion about... Oh, sorry, Duncan, you wanted to say. I was just going to say, we should remember in the top four tiers that day, the only game that finished goalless. We should give some respect to Crewe against Peterborough. So on this day of goals reigning in across the country. In 1963. So of the top four divisions.

21:44Yeah, it was only 1-0-0. Only 1-0-0. So there is this theory. Billy Bragg, I read him talking about this, where his understanding of the high holiday scores back then was that it was a product of the season of goodwill. I'm quoting Billy here. Players in those days were on wages that were not much above those earned by the average working man. Docker, miner. At Christmas they would get a bonus for a win though. So as the two teams would generally play each other home and away in the space of a couple of days, the players would conspire to ensure each team had a win. The results cancelled each other out.

22:22Fans saw spectacular high scoring games. Everyone got their bonus. I don't want to dismiss Billy Bragg football research capabilities But the numbers don't bear that out Do they not? And also, if you're talking about minimum It was only about two years after the minimum wage had been abolished And Johnny Haynes famously was the first£100 footballer He played in that Fulham game and didn't score Didn't earn his wages there, did he? Well, there you go What's the highest the Premier League's ever gone on Boxing Day? For total goals? Yeah. I've got the answer right here, actually. It was 1999. Premier League mustered 35 goals.

23:02So just over half the amount that we had. There was a 3-2, wasn't there? Coventry beat Arsenal? Well, the biggest, yeah. I think one goals per game in 2017 is slightly higher. Oh, is it? 3.63. But then we're in the era of games being moved around by TV bigwigs. Yeah. Everton, anyway, in 1999 had a 5-0 win over Sunderland with a Don Hutchison brace. So the answer to James Ashcroft's question, other than 1963, does Boxing Day actually produce more goals than any other fixture day? Not really, no. And there's a few outliers. 1982, there were four goals per game. The one you just mentioned. But yeah, it's pretty average.

23:42I've got an outlier for you. Or at least James has. James writes in and says, can we mention Boxing Day 1935? What happened then? Sure. Football League, third division north at Prenton Park. Tranmere Rovers playing Oldham with a final score of 13-4. It is the English Football League record for the most goals in a single match, 17. And James says, Bunny Bell scoring nine goals. That's the only thing I can celebrate as a Tranmere fan. What was the XG, says James? Yeah, Robert, Bunny, Bell got nine goals and missed a penalty in the game. And he'll have been furious about that Clearly Clearly That one in 2007 The Chelsea Villa 4-4 That's one of the great Arguably Premier League games But that's probably the kind of If there is this myth of Boxing Day As being kind of madcap games That was right up there Okay All sorts happening Eight goals Eight goals Five yellow cards Three straight reds Andrei Shevchenko Scoring twice It was that crazy.

24:53Here is Shevchenko. An absolute beauty from Andrei Shevchenko. And Chelsea are level. He looks bewildered. It rattled past him. It was also, I remember back then, we would watch Match of the Day on Boxing Air without knowing the scores. And so that was great for that. A 4-4. Did you watch that not knowing what was happening? Nice. so it was very entertaining could have just watched the game I suppose and still not knowing what was happening do you have a favourite Boxing Day memory Daniel? step into my Forrest myopia Boxing Day 2012 I think it was when Forrest beat Leeds 4-2 at home and everybody was absolutely delighted and then within three hours of the game Fawaz Al-Hassar with the owner had sacked manager Sean O'Driscoll while we were still on the way home, actually, because we'd gone for a meal after the game.

25:54And yeah, so we'd won 4-2. Everyone was really happy. He sacked the manager. Al-Hassawi then tweeted, I'm speaking to a Premier League manager. Don't worry. That Premier League manager turned out to be Alex McLeish who lasted seven games in charge before being sacked. So, yeah, good stuff. Wow. Funnily enough, John Salt wrote in with that very same memory. We'll talk about managers being sacked. at this festive time of year a little bit later on. But, Duncan, a special, a treasured Boxing Day memory for you. Well, if we're talking clubs you support, Wickham have got, I think, at one point, we had the worst Boxing Day win rate of any team in the 92.

26:34So, yeah. Really? Yeah. All right. There have been some beautiful goals, just to mention this before we move on from Boxing Day, some remarkable goals. They're worth looking up, actually. Jordan Ayews for Crystal Palace against West Ham in 2019 he produces a dazzling series of spins and dribbles through the Hammers back line to score a goal that's sealed a come from behind victory against West Ham Oh he's still got it and still Ayews Oh what a goal for Crystal Palace

27:14absolutely magnificent in the 90th minute it didn't even win goal of the month as Hilko points out that's where I watch this Henrikh Mkhitaryan's remarkable kind of falling over scissor kick for Man United against Sunderland probably offside but still magnificent and how about Koko Martina's physics-defying opener in Southampton's 4-0 win over Arsenal just 10 years ago on Boxing Day. Have a look at this because it is extraordinary. I mean, it's extraordinary on the first viewing when you just see it from the kind of standard angle and he kind of hits it on the half volley and it's straight as an arrow, just straight into the net.

27:59When you see the replays and the final replay shows that on its way, it takes a massive deviation, seven or eight feet out to the left and then curls back in. I mean, it's a glorious thing. Harry Potter s*** right there, man. Per Mertesacker clears it. Only Esports Martina who drills it. Oh, what a goal that is. Where did that come from? It's one of those goals. I have a theory on those brilliant goals where you can not just remember watching the goal but kind of remember the TV or what was going on or like kind of where you were, but where you were was in the lounge. And that Martina one is a brilliant example of that.

28:37Christmas decorations all around the TV and yeah it reminds me that Michael Essien scored a goal like that for Chelsea against Arsenal that mad kind of I guess reverse Roberto Carlos internal curl with the right foot it's they are both very good but crucially the Essien one wasn't on Boxing Day so we'll forget that it was on my birthday when's your birthday? that's what I thought December 10 the real Boxing Day exactly yeah if we're talking Boxing Day girls I will posit the longest distance goal in Premier League history with a player's weak foot which was Phil Neville for Everton against Bolton on Boxing Day 2007.

29:17I'm not saying the technique was perfect but it was a long way away and it was with his left foot. Alright. That was lovely. Next up, let's have one more Boxing Day memory of a slightly different nature.

29:37This is the Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. The Athletic is the only place you can read articles by Daniel Taylor, Amy Lawrence, Phil Hay, James Pearce, Olly Kaye and the very best football writers around. All right, Charlie, did you want to talk about Boxing Day 2008 and a little game involving Manchester City and Hull? Hull were newly promoted. In fact, they were in the top flight for the first time in their 104 year. history and they'd come to Paris, they were absolutely tearing it up, they'd won famously away at Arsenal and then the following week away at Tottenham as well, Giovanni with brilliant goals in both they, after a quarter of the season, were actually joint top of the Premier League, wow by unboxing day, they'd fallen off a bit, but they were still in 6th place with 27 points already on the board and then they made the trip to Manchester City.

30:34Mark Hughes's Manchester City, where... It all went a bit wrong. They're insatiable now, Manchester City, and it's Robinho. Oh, the tricks as well, and the finish! Absolutely magnificent from Robinho. That is what they paid the money for, and Manchester City are surely cruising to victory already. Robinho there tearing it up Four goals in the space of 21 first half minutes At the sound of the half-time whistle What happens? Well Phil Brown at this time had real Not that we had the expression so much then But main character energy He loved the fact that You know there was so much attention on him He would be He'd kind of always be there Earpiece on, perma-tanned You know and he loved Talking to the media and this sort of thing He was a very attention-grabbing character and had come up and Hull were doing brilliantly.

31:32So there was loads of attention on him. I mean, they were pretty much the story of that season up to that point. And he ensured there'd be more attention on him by delivering his team talk outside on the pitch. As the players are coming off, they are met by their manager who's marching on, thunder in his face. And he takes them over to the penalty area in front of the 3 ,000 travelling Hull fans and makes them sit in a circle. A bit like, I don't know, a kindergarten class out on a trip to the zoo, perhaps. But instead starts pointing his finger at them and saying, do you want to f*** me over anymore?

32:08That's Dean Windus' recollection of that conversation. Says Brown, I knew things had happened on Christmas Day that I wasn't best pleased with. One or two individuals had gone out and over celebrated. So he gave them a piece of his mind in front of the fans. Yeah, I mean, it felt incredibly performative. you know, a way of showing that I don't accept this kind of thing. I mean, it did really coincide or cause a pretty dramatic collapse from Hull thereafter. Their results did completely went on the slide. But I interviewed Phil Brown a few years after this, which was very entertaining. He did give some, I look back at the interview, he did give some great quotes about it.

32:49But he said, perception goes a long way. If I hadn't done things like the halftime team talk and sing on the pitch, who knows? People look at that and think that's the action of a foolish man. The way I look at it, I was enjoying my time, enjoying the experience. Well, that's nice. And I think that's, I mean, you know what? I feel bad for wheezing with laughter at the recollection of singing on the pitch. That was when they'd stayed up by one point at the end of the season. And he took the mic. Luke John B. Yeah. I've forgotten he always wore that little mic. Well, he was the first one to use it.

33:20Of course, it caught on. It looks so old-fashioned now. I was like, what? Yeah. He's matched with Peterborough Sports in the National League North. Peterborough Sports. And we don't know because it's been recorded beforehand, but maybe yesterday on Boxing Day, he sat those players down on the Kingsland Town pitch. Wow. That would be nice. Quite a damp pitch, you'd expect. Bit of a, right. But it would be a legacy gesture. Just a wash. I hope he's enjoying. Right, yeah, thank you. Yeah, I hope he's enjoying his time there as much as he clearly did. And, you know, to hell with the naysayers, you know.

33:53The little minds out there. Daniel, I'm not saying Daniel, but Daniel. My memory of this, I mean, obviously I remember it happening, but I remember it being one of the first times that match of the day really did like sort of what is now the normal Monday night thing of like really granular over analysis of something that wasn't football. So they were like, I remember Hanson, but like really, they kind of spent like five minutes because obviously everybody was incredibly shocked by it. and it was Hansen who said he'll lose the players now and the whole players actually were like we didn't think we had and then all the media started saying he would and then we were like oh yeah probably it was a bit weird and maybe he shouldn't have done that.

34:34So it was almost like the first trial by TV of the match of the day I remember. It did kind of work in the short term because they drew the second half 1-1. It ended up being 5-1. Craig Fagan with the goal. Craig recalls that he was a substitute. Brownie, as Craig says, told me to get ready because I was going on at half time. So I went down to the dressing room so I could go to the toilet before he came in and started giving out instructions. When I came out, there was still no one in the dressing room. I came out of the tunnel and everyone was still sat on the pitch in front of the away fans.

35:07I thought, I'm in trouble here. Wow. Just as a postscript, it was pretty remarkable that then 11 months later, in the same fixture, Hull away at Man City. Hull equalised in the 82nd minute threw Jimmy Bullard with a penalty and, you know, Bullard, the king of banter, gets to do a kind of mock celebration and they all sit down and he plays the Phil Brown role and he's telling them off, as you said, very much in the style of a school teacher. Daniel? Shout out to the other footballer staying on pitch story of the, well, I was going to say Premier League era, but I think it was 1990 when Neville Southall said he played so badly in the first half against Leeds that he refused to go in the dressing room and just sat against one of the posts in front of the away end for the whole of half time, which is nice stuff.

35:53Lovely Neville Southall. All right, for our final part today, let's talk about people losing their jobs.

36:03You're listening to The Totally Football Show with James Richardson. Now we do four times a week. Keep up to date with us on Insta and enjoy seeing glorious Technicolor on YouTube at The Totally Show. Over in Italy, will he eat his panettone, will he eat his Christmas cake, is the way you discuss a manager's prospects. Making it to Christmas is the kind of real measure of survival in Serie A at least. I'm not sure why Christmas Day should mark such a watershed for managerial careers, but has anyone ever been fired on Christmas Day? No. Hmm. Christmas Eve? Yeah. Yes. Who have we got on Christmas Eve?

36:47Les Reid. Yeah. I played my part in that. That's a very, very small part. Well, Charlton lost 1-0 at home to Wickham a couple of days before Christmas Eve in the League Cup quarterfinals. Wickham were in League Two, Charlton were in the Premier League then. And yeah, Les had only been there a few weeks and that was deemed enough. What was your part? My part was inspiring Wickham to a famous quarterfinal League Cup win. How do you feel about that? Sense of responsibility Yeah I feel terrible Les for a long time held the record for the shortest reign of any permanent manager in Premier League history one win in seven games and 40 days with Athletic that record though was beaten this very season by Ange Bostokoglu PSG let Thomas Tuchel go on Christmas Eve and not any Christmas Eve but Christmas Eve lockdown Christmas Eve 2020 that's brutal he guided them to the Champions League final only months before but yeah out he went the only mention of a Christmas Day dismissal that I can find is Felix Mourinho father of Jose who was sacked as Rio Hava manager supposedly on Christmas Day in 1984 so Mourinho Jose says he recalled this in a 2004 interview when he was very much in his early Palm, saying he was a manager.

38:11His results had not been good. He lost a game on December the 22nd or 23rd. On Christmas Day the telephone rang and he was sacked in the middle of our lunch. So, I know all about the ups and downs of football. I know that I too will one day be sacked. You know, not just one day of course, but the only thing is that's the only I Google, can we Google it? Should we Google it in real time? Because it being Mourinho, I'm not sure whether he's romanticised that story a little bit. Exactly that, James. That sounds like the sort of story where Jose Mourinho is talking to a biographer. You can see how that would mark a young man's mind though.

38:55To what extent his managerial career has been about redemption. Managerial redemption. Also that fear of go on the attack in case you're attacked. Get out there. Get on the front foot. And I don't mean his style of football, I mean his, you know, rhetorical style. Right, I think I'm right in saying that the week before Christmas he himself has twice been sacked. 2015 he was. Yeah, that left the game, wasn't it? That was 14th, 15th of December. He got sacked on the Thursday. Christmas party buster. I don't know how you were Googling this Mourinho story, but my brain went in another direction. And the Portuguese celebrate Christmas on Christmas Eve night.

39:33So, being sacked on Christmas day afternoon. Yes. Would they have been having Christmas lunch at that point? That's my question. Has Mourinho been anglicised by... That's brilliant. ...by nostalgia and memory? That's brilliant. So everyone's right. What a lovely way at this time of year to sum that up. As we absolutely pointed out, Mourinho, his favourite biscuit is a custard cream, and he's from Portugal, who do a custard-based delicacy much better than a custard cream. So it does seem like he is susceptible to anglicisation. That's... I was wondering how that was relevant, but you really brought it around at the end.

40:09Yeah. Christmas dinner, the Consuada, takes place on the eve of the 24th with Bacalao. Well, there you go. There you go. Now, Daniel, I know you wanted to discuss dismissals of another nature, i.e., well, sort of players getting cards so as to be free over the Christmas period, which is another, or certainly used to be another annual tradition. Yeah, I mean, and you, James, very much play the Duncan Alexander to Les Reid role here in playing a part in what I think should be a major news story. I mean, in 2016 on BT Sport, you asked Howard Webb about players getting booked at Christmas to then get a fifth or tenth booking of the season and get Christmas off.

40:59And that was kind of in the stage where Howard Webb had finished and was, shall we say, saying quite a lot of things. Yeah, he was in a play for, he joined us regularly on that long, we had a long crescent table. There was Raphael Honigstein, Julian La Ronge, James Horncastle and Howard Webb. Yeah. Anyway, sorry, Daniel, I'll just get you all. Yeah, no, and he was, that was at a time when he sort of maybe not quite realised that if you say things to the great James Richardson on BT Sport, it may become headlines for several days afterwards. Or in this case, not. And he basically, he said, yeah, that players quite frequently asked to get deliberately to get yellow cards before Christmas.

41:39You're kidding, they would actually come up and ask him. That's crazy. If that is true, that's like Lucas Paquetta-esque, isn't it? Like, you're not, you aren't allowed to do that. That's effectively spot fixing to get deliberate yellow cards, whatever reason it's for. Absolutely. Just sort of feels like it should be a bigger, should have been a bigger story. Who were those players should have been my follow-up question, but I completely missed the news, didn't I? I can now, in retrospect, suggest that maybe, and I don't want to point fingers, but the statistics say that Kevin Nolan, who was famous for his Turkey impressions and might have been a big Turkey fan, Kevin Nolan picked up a ban in December for five seasons running.

42:20Wow. Lee Boyer missed eight Boxing Day games in his career, but then I guess he probably missed a lot of games generally. and I'm just looking at it now there are obviously a number of players on four bookings there will most likely have been a player or two who got that wow precious fifth one maybe that's what Donnarumma's been building towards this whole with this weird four bookings if he gets a fifth does he love Christmas do we know this well much like the Portuguese he as an Italian will be celebrating Christmas as much on Christmas Eve and indeed on January the 6th the Epifanio okay which is when the Italians would traditionally receive gifts from a mysterious nocturnal visitor.

43:02In their case, the witch who would bring them either a lump of coal if they'd been bad or I can't remember what the positive. I think it was something sugary if they were good. And that's 12th night. I'm not sure. Yes, it is. Let's go with yes. Anyway, crikey. Listener, you've probably got loads of festive things that you need to be up and at. Maybe football's one of them, In which case, that's probably where we should say that's almost it for this festive football totally extra. I say almost, but here comes Duncan. The Premier League player to have played the most games without ever featuring on Boxing Day is Jack Rodwell.

43:42Oh, really? How many games? 166. I never Duncan you earlier on said That you were going to look up who scored the most goals In December with a Christmas type surname I stopped that after Charlie's Quiz intervention Speaking of the quiz let's find out the answer So producer Charlie's question was Name the top five Goal scorers on Boxing Day In Premier League history Now Charlie earlier on You offered us one did you say a name Harry Kane yes and I'm pretty sure Wayne Rooney is another one You're pretty wrong with your Wayne Rooney. He's not in the top five. But Kane is, yeah? Kane is. I'm going to use the player who scored a lot of goals, Gambit, and go and Shearer.

44:27Is in there. We've got Kane and we've got Shearer. Who are you going to add, Daniel? Well, I've got two options. I either go down the Duncan route and go Andy Cole, or I go for someone I don't know why I think this, but Luis Suarez. Well, it doesn't make a difference. You're wrong on both counts. Henri got a hat trick Henri's there Henri's number 5 With 7 goals 7 goals 6-1 win 7 goals for Thierry Henri 8 for Alan Shearer Who also got 8 Jamie Vardy No 2 players missing One of them got 8 One of them got 9 And Harry Kane With 10 goals Can you believe it Harry Kane Scoring a lot of goals On a day On a day Les Ferdinand Dwight York Frank Lampard Nope Robbie Keane Yes Robbie Keane Oh that's a Yes Robbie Keane So we're still missing one I'm quite surprised That you haven't Based on your Harry Kane scores A lot of goals Ergo on any given day Aguero No Er Mm Mm Mm Mm Kane by the way Just while you're thinking Let me throw in this Frankie Lampard No It's not Frankie Lampard This is just an interesting detail Harry Kane holds a distinction of scoring on all seven of his Boxing Day appearances.

45:50Don't tell Charlie Eccleship. It means nothing. Didn't Ian Wright get a hat-trick against Swindon? Was that a Boxing Day one? Quite possibly, but it's not relevant to this question. Mick Quinn. The answer to every question like this, deep down. No, Carnu's the answer to every question. But not this one. Not this one. Listen, you know you. Michael Owen? No, not Michael Owen. Robbie Fowler. Yes, Robbie Fowler. Well done, Charlie. excellent alright then Daniel anything you want to add? any Christmas message? yeah just to say I hope everyone had a lovely Christmas and a lovely full boxing day of watching Newcastle vs Man United magnificent yeah the only the only boxing day game yeah it's good we've left that to the very end many other pictures available were available but good to end with an unsatisfying quiz because nothing's more Christmassy than that why just I know that we're we're kind of at the end of the show but why is there only one game on Boxing Day this year?

46:46Because the theory is that Christmas Day falls on a Thursday, so Boxing Day is a Friday and Saturday is the normal football day, so they're only one day apart. And people say an awful lot that you fans get screwed over with public transport. Well, there's no public transport on Boxing Day and there is on the Saturday, so we kind of can't have it both ways. So if you want people to be able to get to games, then the 27th made complete sense for having weekend Saturday football. Is this the end of the Boxing Day tradition? I wonder. No, because the EFL has a pretty reasonably full programme. It's basically just an all-you-can-eat buffet until January 3rd.

47:25There's a whole Premier League midweek set of games, January 6th to 8th. It won't end. Enjoy. Tuck in. Drink it in. That, though, is where this Totally Extra will end, very much like a Christmas present. Not enough thought went into it, and now it's all wrapped up. many many thanks to Duncan and to Charlie and to Daniel and to producer Charlie and also producer Jesse who tidied it all up thanks to you listener we will be back relentlessly with the football I think we're next with you on the 29th of December if that hasn't already happened so hope you'll join us for that have yourself a great time in the meanwhile and for now from all of us here it's happy holidays

48:40The Athletic FC