Totally Extra: Champions League draw reaction!

0:00The Athletic FC

0:09Totally Football Show. Extra. Today, neon dreams as 16 teams learn their next challenge in the UEFA Champions League. We get the expert verdict on the ball draws, the four draws and the played last week we're going to play once more draws. It's all happening on the road to put the best in this Totally Extra.

0:40Unbelievable, unbelievable this. It's Totally Football Show with an extra edition reacting to the dramatic news coming out of Neon this Friday lunchtime with the draw for the Champions League playoff fixtures. Woo! It's just happened. These are the teams that placed 9th to 24th, you'll recall, in that brief but exciting Champions League league phase. Who's with us today? Well, let me first make a speech and then introduce a short video revealing their identity. Or I could just say here in the studio, James Horncastle, fresh back from Italy. That's right, James. Looking forward to hearing about your adventures.

1:22Tom Williams is here. Hello, James. Love that jacket, Tom. Thank you very much. Excellent. Seb Stafford-Blor is in Hamburg, but that hasn't prevented him joining us. Live and dangerous. Hello. Woof. And Paul Balluz in Catalonia, Paul. I am. Yeah, I am for now. Excellent. Excellent. All right. Well, the draw has been made for the playoff fixtures. There'll be a subsequent draw in, what, about a month's time, once these fixtures are played, for us to know which of the two potential opponents they'll be facing should they get through to the last 16? You never have too many draws, can you, James? That's one of the great things about the new format.

2:02Even more games means even more draws, means even more edge-of-your-seat excitement. Let's hear about the playoff draw. Benfica are facing Real Madrid again. It's the one we all wanted. They beat Real Madrid this week. Bodo Glimt, who beat Atletico Madrid this week, will get Inter. And the winners of those ties will be facing either Man City or Sporting in the last 16. Monaco have an all-French affair with Paris Saint-Germain. Tom will be telling us a lot about that, including some surprising facts. Karabag, the first Azerbaijani side to reach the Champions League knockout stages, will be hosting Newcastle.

2:40And whoever gets through those two ties will face Chelsea or Barcelona. It's a trip to Istanbul and Galatasaray for Juventus. memories of 2013 when that fixture last happened Club Bruges meanwhile will be hosting Atletico Madrid and the winners of those matches will be or ties rather will be up against either Spurs or Liverpool and the final pairings are Dortmund Atalanta and Olympiacos against Leverkusen and the two winners of those ties will be up against Arsenal and Bayern the draw for the rest of the bracket will be coming up after the playoffs on the 27th of February. Crikey. I should also mention that the Europa League knockout playoff draw is happening even as we speak.

3:29So if there's any news from Neon on that, we'll be bringing that to you live. Let's talk about those playoff fixtures in depth, though, beginning with that Benfica-Real Madrid rematch. This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. Benfica against Real Madrid, it's the one we all wanted. It was the most dramatic match of this season. I would posit Benfica with that dramatic last gasp headed goal by their keeper Anatoly Trudwin in the 98th minute, the last latest goal scored anywhere in the Champions League this season, earning them their place in the knockout stages and coming at the expense of Real Madrid, who dropped in the process down into the playoff rounds and poll.

4:15What's the reaction been like to that in Madrid? I think that the reaction, especially after the last game of the Champions League phase, is that Madrid media are a bit more wary about what Benfica are. They have been described as a better team than what their status in the table reflected. And somehow, I think that it is basically the toughest draw of what Madrid could have. That's how they see it. For the fact that it is Mourinho, there's a lot of weight into the narrative that will involve the tie in all departments. And the fun fact is that it's going to be the first time that Jose Mourinho is back at the Santiago Bernardo since he left in 2013, if I'm not wrong.

5:04Good Lord. Good Lord. He has had a varied time of it since. he's having a fantastic time in Benfica and it means more to him in Benfica as he says do we think he has one great triumph left in him Mourinho? I mean I think Jose felt that when he was at Roma on the back of winning the Conference League and reaching a Europa League final I think he was anticipating that a big club would look at that and think he's not done after all he's got one last ride in him and ultimately he was then sacked by Roma. But I think Florentino Perez still holds Jose Mourinho in high regard and I think if he was to beat Alvaro Abeloa over three games, knock Madrid out, I think that would have quite a strong impression on Florentino Perez.

6:09And, you know, just as, for example, many people thought Ancelotti was in decline when, you know, he left Real Madrid. Zidane won three Champions Leagues in a row. Ancelotti, meanwhile, went to Napoli. There was a mutiny. He left. He then went to Everton. And no one could foresee Carlo Ancelotti going back to Real Madrid. I think the same could happen with Justin Mourinho. Wow. How delicate is Arbeloa's position with the Madrid fans and indeed with Florentino Perez after what happened in Lisbon? I don't think that it's quite a difficult position with Florentino Perez because Arbeloa and Florentino Perez are quite embedded, quite close to each other.

6:56But I think that the Bernabeu are going to make their feelings quite evident in the weekend and in the next games that they play at home. But I think that the consensus around the club, and in the fan base mostly, is that they have to look at the players. They have to look at the players and potentially to Florentino. But I don't think that Adelaide is going to be one to blame whatever happens this season, unless it goes like even down south. But yeah, I think that Mourinho here has a chance just to put Ramiz in front of the mirror, like in a bad way. I wouldn't believe that Florentino would be capable of thinking that Mourinho could be a good option for the FIFA.

7:37I mean, that would be just insane, in my opinion. But you never know in this football club, because the state of things is quite dramatic right now. Should Real Madrid get through against Benfica, then they'll be facing either Man City or Sporting in the last 16, which would be, if it's City, that'd be exciting, because it'd be the fifth season in a row that they've faced each other in the Champions League. The other tie, who will face either Man City or Sporting, is Bodo Glimt against Inter. James how do you see Inter getting on on the plastic pitch? Well look I mean I think Inter their Champions League campaign so far I mean it started really well they won their first five games then they came up against Atletico against Liverpool and against Arsenal I think to be honest the only one where they were outplayed in for parts was the Arsenal game which they lost at San Siro because the Liverpool one ultimately comes down to that Florian Wirt's penalty, the tug by Bastoni.

8:34I think some people thought, yeah, is this still football? When they saw that challenge. And likewise, Atletico, it's a stoppage time, corner kick. That sees them beaten. But in terms of the teams in the Bodo-Glimp category of the Champions League, Inter have shown that they're not just a tier above, but two tiers above. Even with Christian Kivu and his first Champions League campaign, and they've been able to take care of business on this. The unknown is always, you know, how will they do on the surface at the Arctic Circle? But I'd be quite confident in this. I mean, Bodo have qualified with only two wins and those two wins were their last two games in the league phase and they were impressive against Man City and Atletico.

9:20So Inter didn't beat Atletico, but Bodo did. Okay, I see your logic. Inter didn't beat an English side, but Bodo Clinton. do. I mean you're talking this up I think to talk in Bodo's favour is I mean they've been doing this now for five years they've got a real kind of culture of going far in European competitions within the club now you look back at last year they were in the Europa League semi-finals for example it's now I think five years since they beat Mourinho's Roma a 6-1 at the Arctic Circle. And some of the players who got big moves on the back of those early successes are now back. So in that sense, even though they didn't retain their Eliezerian title, it's the Norwegian League's known because Viking took it off them.

10:19It does seem like when you have won your local championship regularly like they have over the last few years, purpose comes from elsewhere. And I think purpose for them comes from Europe and the Champions League. And certainly I think I saw estimates that they've maybe made 34 million. It'd probably be more than that from the Champions League this year. So, you know, allows them to keep doing this for years to come. How would that compare to their annual budget generally, 34 million, would you say? I don't know. I just remember Paulo Di Canio, who's now a pundit you know and paulo played for lazio so when roma lost 6-1 he was like sono salmonari questi salmon which is like this salmon farmers right um it's a lot of money in salmon yeah so it's it is yeah i mean i don't know how much the bodo salmon farm makes without champions league or europa league football but um feels like this is a big right indeed so big step forward in salmon farming the technological innovations they're going to be able to bring to bear with that kind of money, salmon the size of blue whales or those Austin Powers was it Austin Powers who had the fish with lasers?

11:32Fish with lasers in order to protect that part of the world which is becoming such a conflict zone. Salmon with lasers so they can only be caught by Norwegian fishermen because if any other fishermen try to fish them, they use their lasers and they... Tom, why don't you... Just spitballing. Why don't you tell us instead about the holders, Paris Saint-Germain and their clash with another Ligue 1 side, Monaco. A surprising fact, perhaps about Monaco's recent record against Paris Saint-Germain. Yes, so Monaco have been on this absolutely dismal run of late. Only one win in their last nine Ligue 1 games.

12:12Seven defeats in that period. One win, you say? It was against Paris Saint-Germain. No. back at the end of November. So they have shown that they are capable of raising their game. And it's, yeah, it's a fiddly one for PSG because obviously last season, they came up against Ligue 1 opposition at this phase of the competition and they put 10 unanswered goals past Brest on aggregate and that, you know, helped to launch them towards victory. But Monaco have got a lot more know-how and a lot more experience of, you know, this kind of fixture. I mean, Monaco's form has been pretty dismal. The last couple of games, I mean, it's kind of, you know, it's not a huge amount to get excited about, but they got a 0-0 draw away at Le Havre at the weekend.

12:58They got a 0-0 draw at home to Juve in their final Champions League game. And they played with a sense of organisation and defensive coherence that we haven't seen from them all that recently. And of course, all the pressure will be on PSG. Right. Did they not also lose 6-1 to Real Madrid this month? Yes, they did. That happened as well. That did also happen. But you're right. Pressure very much on Paris Saint-Germain, who, as we discussed in Thursday's show, despite the return of many of their stars, are not firing by any means at the moment, held, of course, to a 1-1 draw by Newcastle at home on Wednesday night.

13:31Yeah, I mean, look to be flying towards automatic qualification for the last 16. 4-0 win over Atalanta in their first Champions League game, which I think even now remains their most convincing performance of the season. Won away at Barcelona with basically a second string, certainly a second string attack, if not an entire second string 11. Won 7-2 away to Bayer Leverkusen. It was like, OK, PSG, they're back. This is the PSG we got to know last season. Lost in quite one-sided fashion at home to Bayern Munich, the game in which they lost Ashraf Hakimi to injury. Beat Spurs 5-3 in a very kind of like chaotic game and haven't won since.

14:070-0 away at Athletic Bilbao, a 2-1 defeat at Sporting, and then that very frustrating 1-1 draw at home to Newcastle in their final fixture. And it felt like the planets were aligning for things to click for PSG again. They got over this very difficult first half of the season. A lot of the injured players were coming back. There's no reason why they shouldn't be playing much better football, and they're just not. And a lot of the key attacking players in particular are out of form. one bit of good news that came out of the sort of the outcome of the Newcastle game was Cariceo Calackelia who went off with an ankle injury quite early on turns out that's not serious it's only a sprain so he he should be back in time for in time for these matches but there's just this and I think that the entire narrative around PSG this season has been are they going to be able to reproduce what they did last season are they going to be able to play that kind of football and if they are when are they going to start doing it and we're just that's where we are just waiting Right, of course it was around this time last season that they did start doing it, I guess, maybe even a little bit earlier.

15:10If they do get past Monaco, they could be facing Barcelona again. It's either Barcelona or Chelsea in the last 16. Whichever club they don't face will be awaiting the winners of the other tie in that little section, which is Carabaug against Newcastle. Newcastle have a 6 ,500 mile journey to make to Baku. Bit of karma, finally, for all the very long journeys they oblige fans of every other English club to make when they travel up to Newcastle. Interesting perspective. That game for Monday night to kind of maximise the revenge. Or a Friday. Carabag as potential opponents. They did draw 2-2 with Chelsea at home in Baca, where they play, earlier on in this campaign.

15:53However, their away games against English sides have been quite remarkable. they've lost all five of them with an aggregate score of 19 goals to one and their last two in the Champions League have both ended 6-0 to the English side that was against Chelsea in 2017 and Liverpool just this month so there you go a lot of commentary saying that that's the best draw that Newcastle could have got I think the fact that Newcastle at home as well in the return leg right is you know when you've got a a tricky European away trip it's quite nice to have that first. Get it out of the way. A formidable arena St.

16:32James' Park is. Although the 13 ,000 mile, can that be right? A round trip to Baku will come in between their away fixtures with the comparatively close Aston Villa and then Manchester City. So they go to Villa, then to Baku, and then to Man City all within a week. And if they get through all of that, it's either Chelsea or Barcelona. Woof. Alright, we'll get on to the other four pairings from the playoff round next.

17:26but we'll finish the job in Newcastle if needs be, says Brigadier Ross. So let's have a quick look. Greedy Giles says, I've been listening to the podcast on 1.2 speed for years. It's strange to listen to the guys on normal speed. They sound high. Well, they sound high. There you go. Do you think Greedy Giles just has a lot to get through every day? I imagine he does. But I take from that that 1.2 speed is actually slower than average speed. Because if we sound high talking at normal speed. I guess so. Unless we sound high because we're just very, very spaced. You're right. He deliberately slows us down.

18:02That would be a remarkable use of a person's time. No, you're right. Clearly, I got that completely wrong. That feels like something that comes up in high-performance culture. Listen to your podcast, but do it at 1.2 speed. Definitely. Listen to two podcasts and ones of your day. Exactly. Very good. All right. Thank you for all your comments on YouTube. Galatasaray are up against Juventus James 2013 Galatasaray and Juventus met in what we used to call a group stage ask your parents kids of the Champions League they'd drawn 2-2 in Turin when Juve pitched up was it Conte in charge back then 2013?

18:40well I mean this came up this week because when Conte's Napoli went out in the league phase I think he was the only coach to have gone out in let's call them the first phases of the Champions League twice in the last 15 years or whatever. And this was the last time. And it's a very particular game because Galatasaray had just sacked their coach. They brought in a certain Roberto Mancini to be in charge. And Juventus go away there. The game gets abandoned because of a snowstorm. Juventus' hotel is fully booked for the next day. and so when they go back the receptionist is like I'm really sorry, you're going to have to find alternative accommodation tonight so they scramble around Istanbul try and find a place that's not ideal and then...

19:36In the meantime, Galatasaray got the tractors out, is that right? That's the way it was told? Galatasaray get the tractors out and only plough the end they're attacking and I mean just brilliant shenanigans. So did they pick it up because the game was abandoned halfway in. Did they only play 60 minutes? Yes. I think they actually played, I can't remember off the top of my head. Right. My instinct, it was less than that. But the tractors were out to plough the end that Galatasaray were attacking. Right. And again, this is one of the essential pieces of context to Antonio Conte's sort of Champions League career.

20:17because it's a bit of a freak, even if there is a trend of freaks. There is. Is there not? Will Spalletti fare any better? What do you think? Victor Ozymen, the big name, but so many familiar faces among that Galatasaray lineup. Yeah, I mean, Spalletti, who made Ozymen into the striker that won the league with Napoli and everyone got really excited about. And since he hasn't worked with Spalletti, he's been playing in Istanbul. So, you know, I don't want to denigrate Mr. Ossimen because, you know, he had a truly fantastic year with Spalletti and justifiably, a lot of people were looking at him and thinking this is almost like a striker sent from the future.

21:08But before Spalletti, he was always quite brittle. He was inconsistent. And, you know, it was a surprise, for example, when they had that workaround. Because remember, I think there was some interest from Chelsea at the end of the transfer window, not last summer, but the summer before. And I think Chelsea looked at the price and thought, no. Same with a club from the Saudi Pro League. The European transfer window shut, and he wasn't going to play for Napoli. And so the Turkish transfer window was still open. He went on loan to Galatasaray. and then everyone thought that on the back of his year there, people were like, okay, he's had a year in the Turkish Super League, but he's still a Victor Osman, let's go out and buy him, and instead the only club that came in and bought him was Galatasaray.

22:00But yeah, certainly adds an interesting wrinkle to this. Spellis could do with a centre-fool who he could work that magic on with Juventus, because they, like many of the Italian sides in Europe, have really struggled to score goals, a nil-nil for them with Monaco this week. yeah I mean I would say that things have obviously really picked up since Spalletti replaced Igor Tudor I think in terms of when you're judging Champions League performances by Serie A clubs this season you probably have to take that into account you know Atalanta changed Ivan Juric Juventus changed Tudor and I mean I was there at the weekend for what felt like the biggest win of Spalletti's career 3-0 against his old team Napoli where he called Napoli the ex champions which really kind of riled Antonio Conte in fact there was a banner when I went to the Stadio Maradona on Wednesday for Napoli's game against Chelsea which said Spalletti ex-warmer, ex-man former man which you know was quite harsh but things have really picked up on Spalletti I think they would look on this and say it's a good draw having said that I'm pretty sure it was PSV maybe who knocked Juventus out in the same round last year.

23:21Or Feyenoord, I think it was Feyenoord. So not to be underestimated. Well, indeed not. Indeed not. Were they to go through, the last 16 would see them take on either Spurs or Liverpool. And whichever of those sides they don't face, or whoever comes through that tie doesn't face, will be awaiting the winner of the Club Bruges Atletico Madrid tie. Paul Baluz, back to you. Seb, I'm sure we'll have a German side soon. But for now, let me ask about Club Bruges and Atletico Madrid. What's happening with Atletico Madrid and how confident, Paul, are you of their chances against these surprising Belgians?

23:56Yeah, no, I think that the reaction is that they are satisfied with the draw. But if you look back to the last time that they faced Bruges, it was in 2022, in the group stage of the Champions League. They didn't win one single game. And Atletico, the thing with Atletico right now is they are really focused on the transfer window. They are after a midfielder and a striker. It's already last minute. Simeone wants a signing, although Matteo Alemán, yeah, he would not want to make a panic buy. So there's a bit of this tension going on in the club. And Atletico, basically, they need to recover Julian Alvarez.

24:32Julian Alvarez is in the poorest run of form, possibly, since he joined the club. Right now, the biggest threat that they have is Sorloff up front. and yeah, they basically need to get their players back in shape to assign some new bodies after Conor Gallagher left and yeah, Simone wants a new striker as well and with that, it should be enough for them just to beat Bruxelles they see themselves in Spain, everyone see Atletico as the main favourites here but there's stuff going on inside the club and let's see how it pans out in the upcoming weeks Okay, Atletico Madrid who were beaten at home by Bodo Glimt of course this week.

25:11The final two ties from the playoff round are Dortmund against Atalanta and Olympiacos Leverkusen. Seb Safarblor, let's hear from you. First of all, Dortmund, beaten at home by Inter this week. What a miserable time they've been having of late. Beaten at home by Inter this week, beaten the week before by Tottenham. Both 2-0. Both really listless displays, Jimbo. both ends of the pitch problems the defensive standard has dropped we've talked about that before on the podcast but also Sarah Gerasi who was so important to their progress through the competition last season and so pivotal in that almost comeback against Barcelona in the knockout rounds he's vanished as an attacking presence and without him and without Karam Adeyemi whose own form from where it was in probably in autumn it's really vanished um so it could have been worse definitely from a Dortmund perspective Atalanta could also have been facing Gasparini's Atalanta which would have been considerably worse too but Dortmund needs some momentum Dortmund need a little bit of confidence they need some continuity in selection they keep losing centre-backs they'll admit Anton picked up an illness on the morning of the Inter Milan game Aaron Anselmina was recalled suddenly uh back to Chelsea which was disruptive uh yeah they need some stability and this is a really tricky one for them.

26:37Okay. James, what do Atalanta need? They were defeated 1-0 by Union Saint-Gilois this week. Which was really disappointing because, you know, for the second year in a row, they had an opportunity to finish top eight and it felt even more in their hands this time than it did last year because I think they played Barcelona on the final day in 2025. so I think from their perspective it's a manageable draw I think that they Palladino has done quite well in terms of certainly domestically has got this team firing and scoring the goals that you'd expect an Atlanta side to have scored on the Gasparini which was not the case with Ivan Juric they drew too many games they weren't scoring and I mean yeah they until these these last two games against Union Saint-Gilois and Athletic Club de Bilbao they it seemed that Palladino was quite suited his style of play was quite suited to playing in Europe but now there are some doubts however having said all of that I think they would quite fancy themselves still against this iteration of Dortmund.

28:01I think it's a very delicately poised tie, James. Could go either way. Whoever does get through will draw either Arsenal or Bayern Munich, Seb, in the last 16. Crikey. Either Arsenal or Bayern Munich. If Bayern don't get Dortmund from that and go to the winner of the other game, then they could be up against Leverkusen because the other tie is Olympiakos against Leverkusen. Remarkable, really strong probability of an all-German tie in the last 16. Leverkusen's chances away at Olympiacos and indeed at home to Olympiacos, Seb. Well, I mean, Leverkusen lost to Olympiacos on the penultimate matchday of the group stage.

28:40And in a way, it was kind of their season in a nutshell. They played quite well. They created quite a few good chances, didn't take them. And then they've been brittle all season without the ball. Cost them, they lost 2-0. And I think this is the issue when in the Bundesliga, I think you can get away with the kind of the growth stage that Leverkusen have entered into, which is to replace high performing like first teamers with talent for the future, talent that can grow over the next two or three years, wholly new defensive parts. Unfortunately in Europe, the standard is higher for German teams.

29:14And so what you've seen, Leverkusen at their worst, when they come across clinical opposition, best example of course being PSG when they won 7-2 at the Bayern, in a game which is actually hard to watch at times. This this match was so so great they can be found wanting and at the moment there's nothing there's nothing currently in Leverkusen's form which suggests that this is a particularly easy tie also I think one of the big issues is going back to the beginning of the season so Iman Ross when he was when he was plotting his way through this kind of this this uh this revival he kind of pinned his hopes on like Balde, Gerald Kwanzaa that they would come in and replicate the kind of stability offered by for instance Jonathan Tarr who left for Bayern Munich hasn't worked out that way, hasn't worked out that way and the defence is a big weakness which means that as a result you can't depend upon it while these attacking components grow and develop at the other end of the pitch.

30:06So Europe has been extremely difficult for them and had it not been for that 3-0 win against Villarreal they wouldn't have qualified. They would have been in that mix with Benfica, with Marseille, with Union Saint-Germain and they could well have just been eliminated. There you go, there you go. Well, as it stands Olympiacos Leverkusen will see one of those teams taking on Arsenal or Bayern. If it was Arsenal, that would be the 14th time in the last 17 seasons that the two teams had faced off or face off. Anyway, those are the games. When are they taking place? In about a month, Tom, do you have the exact date to hand?

30:40February 17th and 18th. Yes, with second legs to follow the following midweek. 24th and 25th, and then we get the draw for which sides they'll all be paired up with in the last 16. We're going to take another very quick break and then we'll get a few final thoughts on the teams that are in the remaining stages of the Champions League and one team in particular that's not.

31:09You're listening to the Totally Football Show with James Richardson. Now we do four times a week. Keep up to date with us on Insta and enjoy seeing glorious Technicolor on YouTube at the Totally Show. Oh, Europa League draw update. Nottingham Forest have drawn Fenerbahce. Ooh, tasty. Tasty. And Celtic have got Stuttgart. Seb? Interesting. Interesting times. That's a difficult tie for Celtic. Stuttgart are playing well at the moment. And so one of the loudest grounds in Germany. So that's a tricky old game when they go there. Right. Lots of people commenting on YouTube. Santiago says, watch out for Bono against Inter.

31:51That's where this year's shock will come. Madotra says, Real Madrid right now. Oh, s***. Here we go again. Will Moxon, Benfica against Real. That's a deep analysis. Like, Real Madrid, Benfica is the game that everyone wants to see. I don't want to see it again. Really? I like the fact that, no, because it's happened. Yes. You do very, very well to better it. I don't want to give Real Madrid a two-legged chance to kind of right the wrong. Oh, yeah. there should be more drafts. It's over. You've conceded the 98th minute goal to a goalkeeper and a Jose Mourinho side. But like, given what we had, that's the best we could get.

32:28Yeah, but it feels like it's kind of, if you gave Florentino Perez the opportunity to schedule this himself, that's the game that he would... I don't know, Seb. I don't know. I wasn't watching all of the game, but those who were feel that this was in no way a freak result and that Benfica were far the better side. They could have won it by a much bigger margin much earlier on in the game. Would that be fair, Paul? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think that if Real Madrid's goalkeeper had another name besides Thibaut Courtois, Real Madrid would have lost 5-2, 6-2. Easily, easily, easily. So yeah, let's see.

33:01Did you not feel like there was kind of like a mentality issue that Real carried into that game, which given what will follow, which is huge punitive criticism in the Spanish media, probably booing by their own fans, it'll come out. And I just, I don't want it. I don't want it. And I'm going to die on this hill. I'm fine. All right. Well, it's going to happen, Seb. If need be, it's okay. Also writing in on our YouTube channel is Anish Kumar, who says a lot of pundits are saying Barcelona will lose once the competition goes into the knockout round due to their unpredictability. Not sure who those pundits are, but anyway.

33:36No, I've said this. No, I haven't. I've made this argument. Oh, have you? Not on the case of their unpredictability, but on the case that... They can't defend. Yeah, they can't defend. whenever they play I mean it's led to some incredibly entertaining games but I've also you know seen people online sort of say ah Inter only got to the Champions League final because you know Barcelona's high line and you know kind of crazy antics and you know it's only Lamine Jamal who basically keeps them in these crazy games so you know ultimately the test for Hansi Flick in this year of his time at Barcelona will be to show that those things have been corrected.

34:18But we've already seen in the league phase, Paul has no doubt been present. Games like the Bruges game. The Bruges game. They're just like, yeah, Bruges, if you want to score, fine. Three goals, go for it. Yeah, yeah. It's been 11 years, Paul, since Barcelona won the Champions League. Yeah, I think it's been four games in the Champions League phase league phase that Barcelona started the game losing. So it's a bit of an indictment of how vulnerable Inouye are. I don't think that they've fixed a lot from last season. What I do think is that they can put up a fight against any team. And that's the good and the bad thing that Barcelona have, because they can have a fight against the likes of PSG or Bayern Munich, but they can have a problem against the likes of Bruges or like a Slavia Prague, which gave them trouble.

35:11I struggle to see Barcelona as a Champions League contender at this point. I don't think that with the defensive line that they have, if you look name by name, I struggle to see it as a Champions League winning backline. But again, I mean, at the end of the day, it's going to go down on Pedri, Rafinha and La Minha Mal. If you have those three guys on point, they are like world class and possibly best in the world in their position. So let's see what happens. Anish Kumar's suggestion in his post was that this might mean, or this maybe will mean that this is a year for an English side. And were it to be, Tom, you've already put your money on Chelsea, one of the five English sides already through to the last 16, the other Premier League team.

35:54Newcastle have picked up an easy draw against the Harabaugh. But Chelsea, says Tom. Remarked upon the echoes of Chelsea's 2011-12 campaign when they changed managers halfway through, brought in someone kind of unproven, won a crucial fixture against Napoli on the way to glory in Munich. That was the extent of the observation. Book your flight to Budapest, Chelsea fans. It sounds an awful lot like money being placed on Chelsea to me, by Tom's telling of that story. Absolutely. What about, Seb, your Spurs? Could they win a European trophy for a second season in a row? Name on the trophy, absolutely.

36:30Absolutely. Because it would just be the most Tottenham thing that could possibly happen. get relegated from the Premier League, win the Champions League. Why not? Why not? Why not indeed? Also, I mean, last year, and it's one of one, it's hardly a sample size to extrapolate trends from, but the teams that finished in the top four, only one didn't make the final four, and that was Liverpool, who obviously topped the league phase and PSG knocked them out. But some people read a lot into that. They were like, okay, the league phase clearly does show who the best four teams are. And Spurs were fourth.

37:09So, you know, clearly Spurs are the fourth best team in Europe right now. They're just a little bit like Liverpool, for example. They've recruited and decided to play European football and not English football. And it's working in Europe. Who does it all? Well, I was watching the draw and UEFA described the group stage as one of the great group stages in the competition's history, which would make this Tottenham one of the great teams in footballing history, by my measure. In that context, can't deny that. You certainly can't. You certainly can't. Now, not making it out of the group stage were Napoli, as James mentioned, after that defeat at home to Chelsea.

37:52And Marseille, who famously had been congratulated by their opposition, Club Bruges, on Wednesday on the scoreboard, returned to their dressing room where they were patting themselves on the back on a 3-0 defeat, but successfully making it to the playoffs round. When the news came of Trubin's goal for Benfica against Real Madrid, what's the reaction been in Marseille? And has it resulted in Roberto de Zerbi doing one? Not yet, but I mean, Marseille going out this phase of the competition and in those circumstances is a catastrophe for Marseille because everything has been about turning them back into a Champions League club.

38:33They got back into the Champions League last season. They celebrated that success very joyously. And there were indications in the league phase that they were capable of competing. They were absolutely fantastic in their opening game against Real Madrid at the Bernabeu. Ended up losing to a couple of penalties. They thrashed Ajax at the Velodrome. They won at home to Newcastle. Picked up a really handy win away to Union Saint-Gilois. So they've shown that they're good enough to compete at this level. And, you know, they go into that final game away to Klubbrugge with their destiny in their own hands and just, I mean, just produce one of their worst performances of the season.

39:15De Zerbi inevitably is in the spotlight. There was a big sort of post-mortem in L 'Equipe this morning, kind of picking apart some of his decisions. Marseille have played 30 matches this season in all competitions, and he has changed the team between every single game. And just curious decisions. Timothy Weyer has spent most of the campaign playing on the right, either as a right wing-back or occasionally as a right winger. And he was on the left in Bruges for the first time in about three months. His preferred position, by the way. On the left? Yeah. I wonder actually whether he didn't start on the left against Madrid.

39:53but I mean the feeling is why is he kind of moving things around just like constantly Timothy where? well indeed is it changes for the sake of changes there was a report last night on the Foot Mercato website generally quite reliable that De Zerbi had offered to resign he subsequently denied that he didn't take training he didn't take training but occasionally he doesn't take training and it was basically a warm down session and they're actually now at La Fontaine and that's not just to avoid flying into Marseille and having to face the hordes of angry fans at the airport they're playing Paris FC at the weekend and Deserby quite likes these these mini retiros you know did it a couple of times last season in Rome famous in Rome at the end of the season and they're kind of you know I mean this was organized pre-disastrous Champions League qualification but here we have again Marseille battening down the hatches they've recruited a huge amount in in recent years they've spent an awful lot of money they've signed a lot of kind of champions league level players and suddenly they're out of the champions league you know before the end of january so yeah i mean joked about this on yesterday's show but marseille is not the kind of place where this kind of result is taken lying down there will be chaos in in the weeks and months to come and i for one can't wait to witness it all crikey seb Tom is there are there going to be any financial consequences because that's a big old wage bill in Marseille and obviously they've missed out on quite a chunk of revenue by not going through yeah massively I mean you know as for any team that misses out on getting through to the knockout phase there are ramifications you know even just the difference between finishing I mean you know there's the one thing of being eliminated but every single place in in the table you know brings in more money if they'd finished you know kind of if they'd qualified and finished multiple places higher that is a you know significant payout and another feature of of masse's recent existence is that they're just constantly buying and selling players and i think that's partly because they have a president in pablo longoria who was a former sporting director a sporting director meddy benassia who loves like moving players around and you know players come in play really well, seem like they're about to kind of really kick on and the next thing they're just out of the squad for no reason whatsoever and they're being like bad mouthed by you know OM sources in the media and then the next transfer under they've been sold Angel Gomez for Manchester United star that arrived last summer having played really well at Lille, barely got any opportunities at the start of the season and has since just disappeared and they are desperately trying to sell him between now and the end of the window Arthur Vermeer in young Belgium midfielder also came in last summer produced some fantastic performances in the Champions League.

42:42He's now been binned off and frozen out. And just this constant churn. And I think part of that is a reflection of the fact that when Marseille have an opportunity to make some money, they find it very difficult to turn it down. You put in a sizable bid for one of their players and they will generally accept it. So the loss of Champions League income will hit them pretty hard. Well, I agree, Gilles, who previously posted it, He listens to the podcast on 1.2 speed, so we currently sound like we're high to him. Surely he's about half an hour back in the episode. Yeah. No, no, he's way ahead. He's already finished.

43:17We haven't even got to the point in the podcast that he's listening to it. He's already finished. Halfway through his lunch. Yeah. But he points out, well, he suggests that Marseille have sold two players today, breaking news, if that's true. Now we can. But it was very strange. I mean, go back to one of the stories from the start of the season, was the bust-up between Adrian Rabiot and Jonathan Rowe, both of whom were sold Rabiot to Milan, Jonathan Rowe to Bologna. And it struck me that if you're getting rid of one, why are you getting rid of both? Particularly, Deserbi never wastes an interview to talk about his son, Rabiot, his number 10, Rabiot, who's having a fantastic season.

44:06Maybe it's a Beckham style. I don't know. I don't know. Wait, you're saying one of the Marseille board danced on... Oh, do you know what? I've not read beyond the headline. James, what was the dancing thing? You don't even know about the dancing thing. It's the main bit from the Brooklyn Beckham. James, you shouldn't have committed to that without knowing about the dancing. Have we got time for this now? Who danced on what? Do you want to guess or should we just tell you? so Brooklyn dance no the allegation yes that Victoria Beckham yes Brooklyn Beckham's mum right danced on him on him in inappropriate fashion what on his wedding day I'm in I can't believe you've referenced this because you're across the cultural zeitgeist but you didn't actually read the posts which I felt it was their business and I realised that me bringing it up on a football vodcast is a little bit contrary to that you know in many ways highly recommendable position so i'm just going to move on thanks for that though james thank you for that uh who's going to win the champions league who's going to go all the way james inter uh well i mean inter have got to improve in the big games that's been in in true of all but a couple um of their city our games um and it's been true of their Champions League games with all those caveats that I've just said when we talked about Inter.

45:35So I'm a little bit less confident than I have been in other years about them. Arsenal have clearly shown that they are just so solid, just conceding four goals in eight games, winning all of those eight games. The one question mark I have about them is, well, can they go all the way in both the Premier League and Champions League or will one detract from the other? We've seen how even though people have been quick to proclaim them champions elect in England, the gap is still only four points. And how that club, that fan base, these players react to that expectation, that pressure of the next month is I think an unknown still.

46:24so I mean I would still say talent wise I'd still look at the champions PSG but the big thing about PSG last year was they made a transformational signing in January which was Kavishe Kavadanskelia which hasn't happened and I wonder if we're going to how long are we still going to be saying PSG will figure it out and they'll all of a sudden come alive because I think we've kept using that to justify some of the results that have been below the expectations they set at the end of last year. Right. Tom, would you agree stroke disagree? Yeah, no. Who would you have as your favourite? I mean, I would kind of like to see PSG recapture some of what they did last season.

47:13And not only because I'm a freelance journalist who specialises in French football and therefore that is beneficial to me, but because it was really exciting in purely sporting terms the kind of football they were capable of playing was like really dazzling and it would be nice to see them turn up at some point like Bayern super impressive I mean you know an attack to die for really impressive when they beat PSG at the Parc des France and like Madrid like you just you can't ever you can never you can't just when you're kind of one of those seasons where you're not entirely sure it's not going to be Madrid because they're all over the place don't even look at it Seb, Bayern Bayern Bayern I think you add Missiala and Davis fully fit into that Bayern side I think you could have something really special really special and the one thing about PSG I kind of agree with the guys but the difference being the goalkeeper I think if you look at the run to the final last year and how important Donnarumma was to it please correct me if I'm wrong Tom but I haven't seen enough really from Chevalier yet to suggest that he's capable of the same kind of impact yeah well he and he lost his place for the vital game against Newcastle to Matvei Safanov, you know, this sort of lumbering Russian understudy who now looks like he might be on the verge of becoming PSG's first-choice goalkeeper.

48:26And again, a problem kind of all of PSG's own making. You know, I'm sure there was a way that Donnarumma could have been persuaded to stay. Right. That he was super popular in the changing room. Or that Luis Enrique could have been persuaded to keep him. To keep him. Santiago-EH2TS, which I feel is important, says, fixed to congestion will pile up. Thus, my money is on Bayern to win it. PSG could turn good. The leagues with 18 teams will benefit, I think. Look at the Bodo Glimt example. Six weeks off, and suddenly they're just beating teams left, right and centre. How many teams in their division?

49:01Coming to you on this one, James. I cannot remember off the top of my head how many teams are in the elitzerian, which I'm saying purely to sort of make it look like I follow the Norwegian league. 16. 16 16 okay where did you get them from but anyway so so far we got a shout for Arsenal we've got a wistful wish for Paris Saint-Germain we've got a Bayern Munich and Paul Belus what's your feeling yeah like my principles I'm not a huge advocate on like predicting back-to-back champions so I'm not going to go for PSG here and I'm going to go for Bayern basically I think just starting up to what Sepp said, just you put Musiala into that mix and yeah, that's potentially the best front line in Europe.

49:51How they played against PSG was amazing and I don't see Arsenal coping like with both title quests. Then in La Liga, I don't see any maybe Barcelona, of course, are the best team but Flick, I think that Flick likes the sort of title of being an underdog because after the last game he said, no, the Premier League is the best league in the world. We are trying to compete with that and we try to win the Champions League but the Premier League is the best league in the world. And I think that Barca will try to go that route. So let's see what happens but I think Bayern. We haven't mentioned City. No, that's true.

50:28We haven't. Which I know people still think about the 5-1 defeat in the Arctic Circle to Tom's pick, Bodo. But what I find interesting about the teams that we've just spoken about with the exception of PSG and Luis Enrique is like, Arteta and company are still, you know, part of this sort of new generation of coaches. Okay, Arteta's been at Arsenal for a long time now, but I don't want to do this, but like, what's he won? He's won an FA Cup. And while we've seen progress in the Champions League, quarterfinal, semifinal, it feels like we're trending towards a final. You know, I still have that doubt.

51:12Same with Kompany, as good as Bayern have been and have shown that they've kind of learnt how to complete the team that was incomplete last year, how Kompany, for example, has done better in some of the bigger games in the Champions League. Paul mentioned the one against Paris Saint-Germain. That's still a doubt for me. Whereas Pep, you know, Pep is still Pep. and you know I would if there was to be an encounter between a city and one of those teams I still think the experience of that coach might make the difference regardless of the flaws in that city team and them not being as good Paul's shaking his head even though he's Mr.

51:55Catalan, Mr. Pep who used to live in Manchester to follow Pep's every move he's shaking his head I'm not that sure I don't see them as a stable team And to an extent, I think that not having won in recent years is a good thing. I think that right now, I don't see any team really much better than any other team. So the fact of having this desire of wanting to win, it gives you an edge. I'm not saying that City, they don't want to win. Of course they do. But I don't see them as a consistent team. Maybe like in a month's time, they have Marguerite and Semenio into the Champions League squad. They don't have many more injuries and things have changed.

52:32but I don't see reasons now to believe that Man City is among that group. You can't trust them at the moment. I don't feel like you can trust this City performance because usually in years gone by they develop this mechanical quality at this time of year that they just start slowly moving forward, moving forward and have this momentum. Whereas this season, every now and again, every three weeks there seems to be something which calls them to question the structure of that squad as well. But I just find it interesting how recently the teams that have won the Champions League have had coaches who've won it before.

53:04That's true. That is true. And so I think the mix is interesting this year because, you know, as much as Tom said you can't rule out Real Madrid, it's hard to really take them seriously with Arbeloa in this interim post. Flick's won it before, Paul, even though Barca have clear flaws. So what we're all saying is it's very open. It is very open. It is very open. It's going to get a little bit less open in about three weeks' time when we get the playoff results and we know who's going to be facing who in the last 16. I don't know if we'll be doing a podcast live around the draw for that last 16.

53:45I wouldn't rule it out, though, because this has been a lot of fun, hopefully for you as well. Seb? Oh, it's been exhilarating. I'd hope that we do another live one. Let's see. Let's see. Solving technical issues on the fly. Yes. It's been fun. Absolutely. I hope you've enjoyed it as well, viewer on YouTube or indeed podcast listener. That's where we'll, I think, park it for now. So many, many thanks to Seb in, I believe, a still snowy Hamburg, in Paul Boulouse in a considerably more temperate. Sunny Barcelona. Catalonia. James in a clearly frosty studio here in London. And Tom and, of course, in the booth, Liam and producer Charlie.

54:25we'll be back on Sunday evening if you fancy a bit of live podcasting on our YouTube channel from around about 7.15 or thereafter rounding up Match 8.24 in the Premier League and of course that will be available as a podcast on Monday morning many many thanks to everybody who wrote in for now from all of us here it's goodbye you've been listening to the Totally Football Show part of the Athletic FC podcast network for other great podcasts just like this one including the Athletic FC and our dedicated club podcasts, search for The Athletic in all the usual places. We're also at The Totally Show on Insta and at The Totally Show on YouTube.

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