Totally Extra: Euro 2000 - the best tournament ever?

0:00The Athletic FC

0:30We relive the millennial magic in this Totally Extra.

0:40Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Thursday, the 30th of October. We gather together with Charlie Eccleshire. Hello. Hi, Charlie. And also James Horncastle. Hello. Good day to you, James. And Michael Coggs. Hi, James. Hi, Michael. Excellent. And it is a totally extra, basically, for us to have a chat about Euro 2000, of which some people are very big fans, Michael. I was told it was Charlie who came up with the idea for this podcast. Am I right? I did suggest it, yeah. So I walked into the office early and said, why the hell are we doing this? Seriously. I was just like, it's the end of October. Right.

1:22In 2025. Yeah. What's the hook? To be clear, I didn't say we should do this on October 30th. I said we need to talk about Euro 2000 at some point. You know what? I'm so grateful you did. This is probably the tournament that I saw the least of for a combination of circumstances. Okay. Bodes well for this podcast. Yeah. So, but what a discovery it's been for me, Charlie. It was, yeah. I was walking across Spain for much of the tournament. Were you doing the pilgrimage to Santa? I was doing the Camino de Santiago. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then no sooner had that finished, but then I went on a sailing trip around the kind of uninhabited western side of Corsica.

2:00But I was able to see the final in this restaurant up a hill that you could only get to by trail or by boat in a place called Cirolata. Very beautiful on the western side of Sardinia. Well, I mean, if the final was France-Italy, you would geographically... Perfectly. Geographically perfect, yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, that's so true. That was very much why we set sail for... I think the best kits were in this Euro 2000. Famous Italy kit, of course. Also, that Portugal kit, where it's really sort of dark, crimson, yellow V-neck, and then the shorts are so green. They're so green. I like it when they're darker red.

2:41In recent years, they've been more Spain red. Yeah. But I like it when there's a bit more differentiation with the color of their shirt. Right. One of our listeners, right, a lot of people wrote in about how much they enjoyed, I look like yourself, Euro 2000, and one of the citations was for the Holland kit, the Netherlands kit, with the black shorts. But Combat 2000, aka the Italy shirt, was... Yeah, and also the Italy anthem jacket in this is a classic kind of capper. Italia across it. What I like about the Combat 2000, James, as well, is the badge is stitched on frugally. and I think certainly from 2006 onwards they sort of changed the badge.

3:21It was no longer the Tricolor Scudetto. It's kind of an Italian football federation, blah, blah, blah. But it's just a nice shade of blue. It's class. Totti with his long hair, headband. Good stuff. I think Euro 2000 was almost the tournament people think France 98 was but France 98 wasn't actually quite that tournament. Euro 2000, everyone, or all the big European teams anyway, were just that little bit better. And so the quality was just so much higher. You know, you think France were way better at Euro 2000 than they were at the 98 World Cup. The Netherlands had an incredible team. And obviously, you know, Italy were quarter-finalists in France 98, but here they got to the final.

4:02Just a great time to be alive, really. This was a time when Spain was still that team that always underachieved. Right. England too. Yeah, but like it's weird. Like Spain have subsequently started winning. and there's an expectation around Spain like they used to be around Italy now. Whereas back in those days, it was like, ah, look, you know, Spain, roll. Exactly. And I always think that with England, there's no reason why a country like England can't change that narrative because exactly like you say, Spain were exactly like England at that time. It was like, they'll find a way, you know, they're soft.

4:33They're not actually going to win it. They'll find a way to kind of capitulate. And yeah, now they're this like winning machine. They were soft though, weren't they? Oh, absolutely they were. Like some of their players, like Gooty and some of their wingers. He just never trusted. He was Enrique, you know. Pep Guardiola. Wow. Yeah. But someone like Alfonso, who had his moment here, he scores the winner in that Yugoslavia game. But he was always one of those slightly flattered to deceive, slightly nothing-y players. That Yugoslavia game. Well, you know what, Charlie? You're really doing a grand job of convincing everybody.

5:00But we'll get on to Euro 2000 very, very shortly. A couple of people writing in for restaurant recommendations, would you believe it, on a football podcast. David says, restaurant recommendations in Rotterdam, heading there this weekend. That's a bit of a speculative shot there from David. What have you got, James von Krasn? I've never been to Rotterdam. Have you never been to Rotterdam? I was there last spring. I don't know if I have any restaurants. I mean, I went to restaurants, but I can't remember what they were called and how good they were. I'm from Hull, where the beautiful south wrote Rotterdam.

5:30Ah. So, okay. What about Bruges? Who's got Bruges? Cahier says, I'm going to Bruges in a couple of weeks. Restaurant recommendations. Never been. have been and a bit like Coxie I can't remember all I remember is that I love Bruges and it was a real surprise hit I mean I know obviously I'm not suggesting that you know Bruges is a kind of hidden gem but it really exceeded my expectations so you will have a great time wherever you go I mean it's like chocolate and beer are their two things and those are two pretty great things to have and free like that's a winner I'd recommend if Sparta Rotterdam were at home that's one of the most unusual charming little grounds I've been to.

6:09Okay. I went to there and I went to Excelsior, which wasn't as exciting. Great names. That could be sort of hotels. Maybe the most notable thing about Excelsior's ground is that they've got Stan named after Robin Van Persie, who actually didn't play a professional game for them, which I thought must be fairly unique. That is curious. Did he pay for it? Possibly. He was there as a teenager, but I think left when he was 16 or something. Right. So is that enough of a contribution to get a star named after you? I don't know. A quiz question. No Duncan today, but producer Charlie, who's a bit of a quizmeister himself, contributes this.

6:48Who was the first player born in the year 2000 to appear in the Premier League? Do you want some clues? I'm just thinking... You shouldn't say the answer now. Oh, right. We save it for the end. Yeah, yeah, we save it for the end. Do you want clues? I'll keep those for the end. Clues? Save them for the end. same for the end alright that's enough quiz question another thing we'd like to do on Totally Extra is open up the almanac what has this week in football history brought us down the years well today's the 30th of October on this day in 1960 at the Policlinico Evita in Lanus province of Buenos Aires a child was born by the name of Diego Armando Maradona.

8:01On this day on 1997, Diego announces retirement from football on his birthday, 37th birthday. He'd played his last game for Boca Juniors just five days before. Wednesday of this week, back on 28th of October, 2017, England's under-17s came back from two goals down to beat Spain, soft Spain, 5-2 in the World Cup final, the under-17 World Cup final in India. Crikey. Do you remember the team, Michael? There's some names in there. Phil Foden, Morgan Gibbs-White, Mark Gay, all of whom scored in the final as did Rhian Brewster.

8:50Rhian Brewster actually finished up the tournament's top scorer with eight goals. He's just signed for Derby County I say just about this summer. So that was 2017 and it was under 17. Yeah. So that could be a bit of a clue. Ooh. Yeah. Do you want to know who else was in the squad? You've got Conor Gallagher, Jadon Sancho, Angel Gomez, Callum Hodson-Doy, Emil Smith-Rowe. Manager, manager was Steve Cooper. Yeah. Yeah. He's now at Bromby. Coops. Indeed. 31st of October 2000, which is Friday this week, was the day that the FA announced the first ever foreign manager of England. You'll be aware there is a faction here who object to having a non-English coach.

9:40How are you going to win these people over? Yes, I heard that. I saw it in the newspapers and I heard a lot about it. I can't do anything about it. I'm a Swede and that's it. The only thing we must hope is that we're going to play good football and do good results. If we don't do results, of course, they will try to hang me, but even if I was an Englishman, they hated me. One Sven-Jurin Eriksson, who just won the Scudetto with Lazio and was due to start with England the following July, but Lazio's season fell apart to such a degree that they asked him to. Well, it was also because he'd said he was going, so it's like, well, what's the point playing for this guy who's not going to be there?

10:28Exactly. All right, then. Hey, there's a Galato about that season, I think, probably. I imagine there is. Craniotti's Lazio and that. We're not here to discuss that. We're here to talk about Euro 2000. This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC podcast network.

10:552000 AD, a fresh millennium where, once we'd made sure the machines were all still working, things were pretty zar-jazz. There was Gladiator in the cinema. Are you not entertained? Are you not entertained? And Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon.

11:13It was the year of Craig David. Oh, yeah. And his busy diary. Call me, call me Monday. Took her for a drink on Tuesday. It was the year of George Bush Sr. and Hanging Chads. Vladimir Putin coming to power in Russia and Big Brother launching in Britain with Craig Phillips, the first winner. The winner of Big Brother is... Craig.

11:45It was also the year of great games at the Sydney Olympics, on your Nokia with Snake and that summer at the Euros in Netherlands and Belgium, a.k.a. the greatest football tournament ever played. Woo! Now, we kind of did this a bit, but there are a lot of very good reasons why it is a tournament above all others. One was the fact that it was 16 teams and all of them were in the top 30 of FIFA World Rankings. So they were good teams. There was great atmosphere because you had all those Dutch fans, Belgian fans. It was nice and easy for everyone to get to. Chocolate. Beer, chocolate. English hooligans in Charleroi.

12:22Yeah, that as well. England made their exit in the group stage, so they didn't trouble. all those hooligans, the latter parts of the tournament. You also had a generation of great number 10s who were... All made the final four. Yes. I mean, well, four of them did, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You had your Totty's, your Figo's. Zidane. Zidane, Hardy, rather. Bergkamp. Dennis Bergkamp, Stojkovic. You also had, and this is a key factor, loads of goals. The highest average goals we've ever had in a tournament. 2.74 and nearly every knockout game decided by just a single goal and many of them including both semi-finals and the final going to extra time so in terms of unpredictability it was extraordinary yeah it was very good and i was thinking this is maybe the only tournament i can think of where both semis in the final i think are fairly legendary games i think it's easy to remember what happened late drama as you said there's a lot of comebacks in this tournament as well.

13:23I mean, France, we thought of them by the end as completely worthy winners, but they had to come back from a goal down in both the semi and the final, the final in very last gasp circumstances. So yeah, it was good. It felt like football had opened itself up to a slightly more attacking style of football, I think, after the 90s, which I think had glorified a bit in terms of the actual quality of football. But yeah, this was good. I mean, I went back and looked at some reports from the time from World Soccer magazine for example and i don't think we're kind of treating it with rose tinted specs even at the time people were saying this is one of the best tournaments there's been i think in general you kind of alluded to it james but pretty much all those 16 team euros were really good well i was gonna say there were only five of them weren't there this was probably the best but i think it was just because it was 96 was the first and ended then 2012 was the last because 2016 started this new kind of crazy thing and before then it was much smaller but that was a real sweet spot but But yeah, to your point about world soccer, I saw Alan Hansen talking about it after the final and he's saying what an incredible tournament it was.

14:27The tournament is the winner. It kind of was. It was a real, yeah, even in the moment. I mean, and even like Yugoslavia, they lost that game 4-3 to Spain. That game. But they were 3-0 down against Slovenia earlier in the tournament and they drew 3-0. All right, well, I confused that game, the Spain-Yugo game, with Spain-Nigeria in 1998, which was another well that was a five goal thriller that was 3-2 Zuby Zaretta making some mistakes I seem to remember you being around doing like BBC I don't know if it was the Nigeria camp or was it the Jamaica camp I did go to the Nigeria camp and met Boris Milutinovich maybe that was me James I've forgotten that we're going to clear that confusion up a little bit later on 16 teams then, who was there?

15:15you had four groups, all really well balanced to be fair. In Group A, there was England and Germany, who were in with Romania and Portugal, and of course England and Germany failed to get out of that group. Group B was Italy, Turkey, Belgium and Sweden. Group C, you had your Spain, your Yugoslavia, Slovenia and Norway, and what a dramatic finale to that group. And then in Group D, oh my word, France, who were world champions, and now had added the likes of Chéri and looked generally even stronger. The Netherlands, Denmark, who've been winners a couple of tournaments before, and the Czechs, who've been finalists in the previous edition.

15:54So, woof. That's what you need, I think, as well, for the ingredients of a great tournament, is the previous holders go out, so Germany go out. In the same group as England, we're all obsessed with ourselves, you know, sort of, you know, England disaster. So already, before the tournament really gets going in the knockout stages, you have Phil Neville. Yeah, there's a lot going on. Let's get the England chat out the way, because for younger listeners, England back then meant something very different to England now. Michael, Kevin Keegan, England side with Paul Gascoigne no longer on the scene.

16:31Alan Shearer's knees also not really a factor anymore. What was that England like? A bit shambolic, really. I think it was obviously even at the time that Keegan probably didn't quite have the tactical nous for European football. This was at a time when Premier League football, European football, I think felt very different. And I think Keegan obviously had good levels of success with Newcastle, even if they didn't quite win the league. With England, I mean, obviously he resigned a couple of months after this, basically saying, I'm not up to it. Yeah. Yeah, basically saying, but, you know, basically saying I'm not up to it at this level.

17:02His interview is incredible. I mean, he was doing the rounds recently because it was, you know, on this day, but he's incredibly candid, just like, yeah, I'm completely out of my depth, basically. And it did look it at this tournament. Yeah, I mean, this isn't directly related to Euro 2000, but I found a great report recently from when England had the two-legged playoff with Scotland and they won away in Scotland and lost 1-0 in the return game at Wembley. And the players had stayed up after the Scotland game, stayed up drinking till like 6am watching a massive boxing fight from Las Vegas or something, obviously on TV.

17:33But it was like that was the level. It still felt quite... After the first leg. After the first leg, sorry. Yeah, and obviously they got stick for playing so badly in the second leg, having been watching, I don't know, Van der Holyfield or whatever it was. Yeah, Tyson Holyfield. Yeah, I mean, yeah, it did feel a little bit primitive. Obviously, that kind of thing wasn't going on. I mean, this was also the height of the English left-sided problem that younger listeners might have heard reference and not really know how bad it was. I mean, Dennis Wise played on the left wing. With Phil Neville at left back.

18:02With Phil Neville at left back. Gareth Barry was in this squad. Was he? Yeah. Like as a teenager. Probably centre-back. He was kind of viewed as a centre-back when he came through, wasn't he? Well, England looked good for about 20 minutes of the tournament. Their opening game was against Portugal. They scored after two minutes. Lovely ball in for David Beckham. And Paul Scholes flashing a hitter in off the crossbar. And then Beckham sets up a second for Steve McManaman. Who just won the Champions League with Real Madrid. Ooh, nice. And it's a lovely finish. Oh, Beckham's made a great run. He's got mid in the middle.

18:36It's Scholes again. It's a second and it's McManaman. Steve McManaman justifies his selection in real style that's where the good news ends though well it is and if you watch Figo then pulls one back for 2-1 and if you watch pulls one back yeah pulls one back or as it turned out set them on their way to a comeback but England are 2-0 up at this point he receives the ball basically on the halfway line and just kind of there's an absolute chasm the England central midfield I think it's Ince and Scholes, they've both gone like charging after the ball. They're cut out with an easy pass. And Figo just sort of canters forward where he's met by eventually Tony Adams, a pretty old Tony Adams, who kind of lurches out to him eventually and slightly deflects the ball into the corner.

19:24Yeah, it takes a little nick off Adams' ankle. But I mean, that gives you a snapshot of kind of how shambolic things were. Pass David Seaman, who Spanish newspaper Ask described as a piece of meat with eyes. Yeah, because he doesn't move, does he? And you can't really blame him because he must be slightly unsighted by the way the ball goes across Tony Adams into the top corner. He really hits that one. Oh, that is just sensational from Luis Vigo. Seaman just stood and watched it and it flew in. Charlie's absolutely right. Kanter is the word. Like, he's not even breaking out of second gear and he's on his own.

20:05Yeah, it's very weird. Seems to have all the time in the world. I was stunned by that goal. I mean, as was the meat with eyes. It was like, wow. And this is the summer where Figo goes from Barcelona to Real Madrid. Right, and wins the Ballon d 'Or. And wins the Ballon d 'Or at the expense of someone we'll get to later. But I was 16 at the time. I was playing PlayStation. I was doing the kind of WWF steel cage match between that. and yeah I remember just before I went home from my best friend's house seeing that goal and just being like okay yeah this is I watched all the big games from my friend's house I remember watching Michael Owen's goal in 98 against Argentina there and then Figo who was your friend?

20:54Tom Biggs used to be a professional rugby player really? yeah well there we go there we go England followed that up with a victory against Germany. Marx's hearing of Shearer's winner against Germany on a cross-channel ferry on a school trip to the south of France was glorious. That does sound like good times. Yeah, I remember watching this game at a friend's bar mitzvah, which was very modern at the time. They got like a big... The bar mitzvah was not so modern, but they got a big screen so everyone could watch it, which now is par for the course. But back then it felt revolutionary. Doesn't feel right.

21:29Yes, maybe not what the occasion. initially was intended for, but we all enjoyed it. But I should say, I mean, this obviously, things were so bad. This was what prompted, you know, you mentioned Sven coming in. It was like, we need a foreign manager because we're so out of our, our managers are so out of their debt. And Germany were even worse than we were, which led to Bild calling their side the worst team in the history of mankind. And this is where Honigstein made his fortune, isn't it, with Das Reboot? Because this is where, this is the origin story of Honigstein's great book and, you know, Honigstein's notoriety in this country.

22:04Notoriety, yeah. And it's worth pointing out, I think this was Group A. So this was the one that was decided first. And you can't underestimate the extent to which two teams who traditionally would stink out a tournament, England and Germany, in terms of the style of football, them going out led to the fact that the latter stages were so good. Because basically everyone wanted to play football in the latter stages, probably with the exception of Italy, who were kind of cast as the bad guys. We'll come to them later. But getting these sides out of the tournament was great because they were proper.

22:34Well, Romania did the job in a game which had seen England leading 2-1, the final group game. I think England only needed a draw in that match. They didn't get it. Romania equalised. Then Phil Neville sized down an opponent for a penalty. And home they went. Kevin Keegan resigning a few months later, as you mentioned, in the toilet. Possibly England's worst tournament ever. I mean, there's been occasions when they didn't qualify for a tournament, but when they actually did get there, have they ever done worse? Well, World Cup 2014, they did worse points-wise. They did at least win a game here.

23:07Eysen wasn't a knockout game. I mean, this was pretty bad. Maybe the violence as well in Brussels and Charleroi from travelling fans was kind of part of the whole kind of feel-bad factor. Yes, yeah. Yeah, anyway, that was England. Elsewhere in the groups, probably the greatest drama came from group c remember them spain yugoslavia slovenia and norway which featured the game that people called not just the game of this tournament but you know you name a time span this was the game of it the game of the century at the beginning of the year 2000 all bets were off yeah so it featured yugoslavia and spain it was the final game of the group stage in Group C and it pitted Spain, who needed to win because of a disastrous opening day defeat they'd had against Norway, against Yugoslavia.

24:03Now, Yugoslavia had been ruled out of 92, famously at the last minute, weren't able to go to 96 either. And this Yugoslavia wasn't quite that old, kind of full-fat Yugoslavia. It was Serbia and Montenegro. Obviously, Croatia in 98 had been such a revelation. revelation. Well, their first game, as Charlie was mentioning, was up against another of the kind of remnants, the fragments of the old Yugoslav state in Slovenia. And what a wild game that was. Do you remember it, Charlie? I do. I mean, I remember Slovenia going 3-0 up and then Yugoslavia kind of hauling themselves back in. Well, before that, Sinisa Mihaljevic gets sent off.

24:40So they're 3-0 down and now Sinisa Mihaljevic has got sent off. So that ends any chance of them making a comeback. Except set pieces. Yeah. Except that with 10 men, they score three goals in six minutes. Savo Milosevic with two of them and draw. Anyway, that finished 3-3. Something even more extraordinary was to come, though, in the final group game with Spain. The last match, all four teams from the group could go through, but remember, Spain had to win. Yugoslavia, though, through Savo Milosevic, took the lead. Chance here for Yugoslavia. Three of them waiting in the middle. Milosevic, goal!

25:19Savo Milosevic yet again. His fourth goal of the competition. Yugoslavia went ahead three times in this game. I mean, it was crazy. And going into stoppage time, they were still ahead. So 3-2, Spain were down. And even if they got an equaliser... It wasn't going to be enough. It wasn't going to be enough. And I think there might be some evidence in this because now stoppage times are so much longer. But I feel like now, you know, a team scoring twice and in stoppage time and turning a loss into a win, you know, it does happen. I feel like it was so, so rare because injury times were that bit shorter.

25:56Was this game hailed as one of the greatest ever just because of stoppage time? No, I think everything that went before it, I think as well. But to have that, you know, it felt very much like a fitting conclusion to what had been an absolutely mad game. And I seem to remember Yugoslavia, they weren't sure, because they went through as well, it turned out. But I don't think they necessarily knew that. And I think some of their, you know, there were kind of angry scenes at the end and then some of them have to be told like, oh, it's sort of okay, like we're through as well. And it didn't really matter who got first and second because one was going to play France, one was going to play the Netherlands.

26:25So it wasn't like, you know, a huge advantage either way. But yeah, and then it looked like, oh, Spain have got all this momentum, but they then went out the next round anyway. Well, one of the nice things about it, yeah, as you say, is one of these games where not only was it a classic game, both teams went through at the end. So you've got quite a jubilant atmosphere and then you've got... A feast of football. Yeah, and then one of the nice things I find quite funny is then cut to the other game. You've got two teams who've both gone out after a 0-0 draw. It's like, well, again, that's what I want.

26:53Two teams who draw 0-0, get rid of them. Two teams who serve up a great 4-3, we'll have them in the knockout. It was great. Spain trailing 3-2 in injury time, get one goal back in the 94th minute when Pedro Mnuitis goes down and Gascomandieta converts. And then about a minute later, Pep Guardiola fires a Hail Mary ball up and Alphonso gets his second of the game. James, are you chuckling because of John Watson's infamous commentary? No, it's just that the, not rogues gallery, the cast of Spanish characters. Right. Because as Charlie said, the Champions League final had been won by Real Madrid in Paris against Valencia.

27:36And so you have this period where Valencia start going to Champions League finals back to back. Real Madrid have won in 98, they won in 2000. But you look at the squad, you compare it to the last 15 years. If we forget Spain won the Euros with largely Basques last time around. In this, there are players from Zaragoza, Racing Santander, Celta Vigo, Betis, Mallorca, and obviously Real Madrid and Barcelona. But it just shows at that stage, even Deportivo. So it shows at that stage that Spanish football is just greater plurality, more diversity in it than there has been in a while. Where did it get them, James?

28:18They were too soft because of it.

28:24Motson's commentary is quite famous, but the Spanish commentary on that fourth goal by their side is pretty exceptional.

28:38and there's a chance for the goal it's Alfonso it's unbelievable it's 4-3 to Spain Goal! Goal! Goal Paco Goal! Goal! Goal! Goal! Goal!

29:11And just when you think the 16 people in the commentary with a shining goal are finished, they start back up again. They were pretty happy about that. As it turned out, neither side were to go much further. Spain's opponents, as Charlie was mentioning, in the quarterfinals, which went straight to out of the group stage in the 16-team tournament, were France, who beat them 2-1 with Zinedine Zidane and Yuri Jukaev. Yugoslavia meanwhile went on to face Dennis Bergkamp's Netherlands a team who seemed pretty much written on the trophy particularly after they took Yugoslavs apart to the tune of six goals to one woof because the Netherlands and France were in the same group the sense was that they would probably meet again in the final they were the two outstanding teams I mean really incredible were they though were they Charlie on paper they certainly were and I think you could say on the pitch as well because Netherlands won all three of their group games and then thrashed Yugoslavia and then batted Italy, you know, on the balance of play.

30:11No, we'll come to that game. So in all of their games, I mean, Klaivert scored four in this game. Against Yugoslavia. Against Yugoslavia. Looked pretty... One of them was given as an own goal, but yeah. Was it? Klaivert and Savo Milosevic were the top scorers of the tournament. Remarkable. Savo got his move from Zaragoza, the strength of Spanish football in depth there, to Parma on the back of this. Having already played for Villa? Yes, yeah, yeah. And it's been seen as a bit of a flop, a joke figure. A little bit. Well, Charlie, some felt that a week on from that game against Yugoslavia in Rotterdam, that the Netherlands would be back there facing France again, whom they'd beaten in the group stage of the tournament.

30:55But, of course, somebody, somebody was waiting to spoil their party.

31:05This is the Totally Football Show part of the Athletic FC podcast network The Athletic is the only place you can read articles by Daniel Taylor Amy Lawrence, Phil Hay, James Pearce Oli Kay and the very best football writers around So Netherlands Dennis Bergkamp and all that 6-1 as winners against Yugoslavia and heading towards the final. But first, they just had to get past, in the semifinal, Italy. James, introduce us to year 2000, Azuri. Well, we've mentioned the combat 2000 as well. This is an Italy side that, you know, I remember the last Euros when Riccardo Calafiori was like this heartthrob.

31:51People put him, almost like AI generated him next to this group of Italy, defenders. Di Biagio. Yeah. Di Biagio who has his Stuart Pearce moment in this game. So true. But in terms of sort of Maldini, Nesta, Cannavaro. Gigi Buffon wasn't there because he was obviously still young but he'd broken a bone in his hand. And you know I would say arguably the greatest goalkeeping performance by an Italian goalkeeper in the tournament as a whole goes to Francesco Toldo. Right. Toldo is incredible in this tournament. So he'd been called up because Buffon was injured and Angelo Peruzzi had refused to be Buffon's backup.

32:38Wasn't the only big name who was absent for the Azzurri because Christian Vieri was also injured. And he would miss the one thing he really regrets is he was overlooked for the 2006 World Cup as well, Bobo. So Bobo missed two very big campaigns, really. You could also make a case, and people certainly did at the time, that the other big name absent for the Azzurri was Roberto Baggio with Alessandro Del Piero, who was still not finding form after that cruciate ligament injury in, I think, November 98, taking his place in the line-up, along with Francesco Totti and the likes of Stefano Fiori and Pippo Inzaghi was there.

33:16Del Piero controversially starts this semi-final against Holland, and Totti has his nose put out by this because this is Totti's best international tournament. He believes that he should have won the Ballon d 'Or or would have won the Ballon d 'Or had they won the final. Right. Had what happened in the stoppage time of the final not happened. But I would say in the post-war, second war era, this is probably in the top five Italy games. Okay. In terms of performances because it is epic. For all of the build-up we've given Holland in terms of there being one of the hosts, winning all their games in the group, scoring lots of goals, the talent that they have, the fact that they're playing at the Amsterdam Arena.

34:03Italy had been good too. One of the goals of the tournament, Antonio Conte's bicycle kick. Antonio Conte, bicycle kick against Turkey. Wow. Brilliant. I think he takes it with his right foot. It's just fantastic from Conte. Again, not what you'd expect. But Italy had a lot of those 7 out of 10 midfield players that just distinguished that era. So your Dilivios, your Contes. This was sort of very good Stefano Fiori, but I think people who weren't on top of Serie A at that time would have forgotten about Stefano Fiori and that sort of thing. Don't sleep on. Gianluca Pesotto. Also, yeah. Well, they also had won all their group games, only conceding two goals in the process.

34:48They then dispatched Romania 2-0 in their quarterfinal. And now they faced a Dutch side. I mean, the Dutch team was pretty stacked as well for this game in the Amsterdam Arena. Van der Saar, Boswell, Jaapstam, Frank de Boer, Bolo Zenden, Overmars, Edgar Davids, Giovanni van Bronckhorst, Philippe Cocu, Dennis Bergkamp and Klaiver with Seedorf coming on for Bergkamp Seedorf coming on late on yeah but Toldo later we felt like we were playing the Barcelona of that era because Overmars went to Barca then he went to Sommie yeah and then you have the likes of you mentioned Koku Zenden Zenden they were coached by Louis van Gaal around that time weren't they Barca so if that's what he was sort of trying in terms of setting this game into context that's what we were up against Think about Barcelona.

35:45You had Johan Cruyff, architect of all of that kind of football, up in the stands, as well as the then-prince, William Alexander, the Dutch prime minister was there. Cruyff famously said, Italians can't beat you, but you can lose to them. Nice. He also said, which is relevant, every disadvantage has an advantage, which, you know, maybe has a part to play in this game. So, Netherlands start well. Dennis Bergkamp hits the post early on. It's pretty soon apparent that the Italian defenders, great as they are, can't stop getting beaten by their counterparts, and particularly a Bolo Zenden with Zambrotta.

36:30Yeah, and Zambrotta gets sent off, and all of a sudden Italy are facing this attack which has been so prolific throughout the tournament. and it's like being sort of in the dentist's chair. They're like, OK, this is going to be just painful for the rest of the game. And it does get more painful, theoretically, with the penalties that are given against them. Right. So the first one is in the first half and Alessandro Nestev fouls Patrick Kluivert and Frank de Boer steps up. Do you remember this, Michael? Yeah. Not a great penalty by Frank de Boer. Told her gets a hand to it. And bear in mind, he'd scored a pretty, not as pressured, but he'd scored a penalty in their first game to beat Czech Republic.

37:20And again, the Czech Republic had been really unlucky to lose, but Frank de Boer scored a late penalty to make it 1-0. Well, never mind, Nelunds, because you're up against 10 men and pretty soon you've got another penalty. This time it's Juliano, Fáuzeca Davids, and Patrick Kluivert now steps up. But he hits the post. It's funny because, I mean, Italy have a reputation for winning games in this manner. There was a lot of luck involved in this. This wasn't a display of great defending. Do you know what I think? No. They get a man sent off. The opposition missed two penalties. They missed loads of chances.

37:53In fact, G had been a thing back then. I mean, Italy were really hanging on in this game. Toldo has a great game. There's no question about that. But, yeah, I mean, it's extraordinary they managed to go through in this game, particularly when it goes to 10 men. because, you know, just to clarify, Zembrotter gets done after half an hour. So they're playing 90 minutes with one fewer player. And Toldo, he was saying that one of his Dutch teammates, I think it was at Fiorentino Inter, I can't remember which one, he said at halftime this teammate of his told them what was going on in the Dutch dressing room.

38:22And basically Patrick Klaivert was going around shouting, just like, calm, just like stay calm. But that, when Klaivert hits the post in that penalty, Toldo like sort of understands, he's like, okay mentally they're crumbling now like they're you can see we're destroying them mentally although I would agree with Coxsey here that it's kind of the Dutch themselves that they miss they miss they all the pressure like comes to bear on them and Italy just Italy in that situation are comfortable. Is it one of those occasions when you're better playing in 10 men that you were with 11 the way that Italy just shifted around and well it certainly clarified what they needed to do but even that penalty miss to the point about luck or otherwise I mean Clive Vurt completely sends Toldo the wrong way he has everything to aim at and he hits the I mean that you know so even with Toldo's great performance he still gets he still guesses that one completely wrong but misses I mean Bergkamp as well hadn't scored all tournament and I think he's spoken about the pressure the sort of suffocating pressure he felt because this was turned out his last major tournament and I think that was if not known it was likely because he wasn't going to fly to Japan and Korea in a couple of years.

39:34He hits the post early on. And it reminds me, in tennis, you often see players, when their opponent gets injured, and it slightly frazzles their brain, and they're sort of like, they stop doing what they were doing because they get caught in two minds. Well, how do I exploit this guy? Should I start playing drop shots? Should I just do what I'm doing? And with this, I think if it had stayed 11-11, there's every chance Netherlands would have won this game. And they do seem to just get in their own heads with all these missed chances. And then by the time it gets to the shootout, I mean. were the Netherlands, who'd had a tennis score in their previous match against Yugoslavia, unable to score, even in the 30 minutes of supplementary.

40:10And if it wasn't a game of great defending by Italy, you will concede, Michael, that it was a pretty exceptional penalty taking. Yeah, I mean, three out of four they scored, which is... So what, the Biela steps up first. One thing is, context-wise, I know England has a history with penalties, But Italy's history with penalties at this point with shootouts was diabolical. 1990, their own World Cup, they go out of the semis to Argentina on penalties. 1994, they lose the final against Brazil on penalties. 1998, they lose to the winners, France, in the quarterfinals on penalties. And here they are two years later facing penalties.

40:48Di Biagio had missed in 1998. And when Dino's off the coach, is looking for penalty takers, Di Biagio comes to him and says, I want to take this. And Dino is like, what? And Di Biagio is like, but I have to be first. I want to get this out of the way. I can't remember what the Italian saying is, but it's something like, you know, if you've got a bad tooth problem, just like whip it out now. It's like, let's get this done. Right. And he goes and he scores. He scores. Frank De Boer, who's already missed during the game, steps up and his confidence just looks shot, shoots it straight at Tordo. although Passato then, apparently it was Conte who told him to go and take this one.

41:28And I guess when Antonio coaching. Yeah. Conte who missed this game, and he's then on the bench for the final. I can't remember if he was injured or suspended, but yeah, he doesn't play. But yeah, clearly he was there just barking out orders. Passato makes it 2-0 in the shootout. Yeah, Stam then steps up and absolutely skies it. Yeah, I mean, you've got this incredible juxtaposition because you have Stam doing that, and then Totti with the next one with the coolest Penenka you'll ever see. So give us the backstory on Totti and his Penenka, Jase. So this is one of the greatest moments in the national team's history and obviously a big part of his legend as well that sort of throughout training whilst they're in Holland and Belgium they do penalties and he's always doing this.

42:17He's always doing what you call a Penenka which he calls a kukiai or the spoon. and he does it a lot against the reserve goalkeeper, which is Cristian Abbiati. And he does it so much that it becomes a bit of a joke that he feels on himself, he has to do it now because it's all he's been doing in training. But when he's at the halfway line with his teammates and he says, in the Roman dialect, I'm going to do this. They all look at him and like, yeah, f*** off. As he's walking up, I do wonder if he's thinking, well, I've really put myself in it now. Yeah, but Tolo says that there are players who are just not influenced by what's going on all around them.

43:00And those are the elite best of the best players. And he lists off, you know, Pirlo, Badger, Totty. But yeah, for Totty to do this, and Pirlo would do it against Joe Hart in 2012. But for Totty to sort of like call this, it's like Babe Ruth calling a shot. It's just like, I'm going to do this. and very experienced players like Maldini are just like, this guy is mental, are you serious? And he does it under that pressure.

43:50I think it's worth pointing out as well. Obviously, Italy have this very bad penalty shootout record. The Dutch went out in 92 on penalties, 96 on penalties and 98 on penalties. And Italy only scored three of their four. If you score three of your four, you're kind of hoping you're still in it. They score three of their first four and they win the shootout because the Dutch have scored one out of four. So if there was anyone, maybe aside from England, they were going to get passed. I mean, the Dutch, I mean, they do just completely collapse. Unstoppable force meets immovable object. Completely.

44:26And this is, you know, in terms of stylistically, Italy against Netherlands is probably the greatest stylistic mismatch. Like the Dutch cannot stand the way that Italians play football, think about football, win football games. And this is, I mean, it was just such a good story. You could, you didn't ever think Italy were going to get to penalties. But when it got to penalties, you knew the Netherlands weren't going to win it. You know, the pressure, the fact that they've basically just failed in 120 minutes. You know, we talk about home advantage. I think when it went to this, you know, they just, they really collapsed.

44:58And you know what the Dutch are like. I mean, there are Italian colleagues of mine who were in the press box that day. And they say that when Zambrotti got sent off and the Dutch got a penalty, the Dutch journos were loving it. They were just like saying, ah, give it up now. It's over for you. He done, he done. and all that sort of thing. And so even in the press box, when Yapstam goes to take his penalty, I think one of the Italian journalists just calls it alto. It's like, it's going high. And for that already within the press, they're celebrating the press. They're like immense sort of pride, satisfaction of just like, yeah, you arrogant Dutch, you're gone.

45:34You know, this sort of thing. It's just magnificent. Italy through to the final where they would face France. So we'll talk about France and what happened back in Rotterdam next.

46:04France, Michael, you're not the biggest fan of Zinedine Zidane, but he's been pretty special in this tournament. Yeah, this was his tournament. It was fantastic in this tournament. He was at his best in terms of efficiency in the final third. But I think in particular that the semifinal against Portugal was probably his best performance. Just the kind of thing you'd see in a YouTube compilation of Zidane. He basically just did that for 90 minutes and, of course, scored the crucial penalty in that game as well. But it's not just about him. I mean, there's teams that win tournaments because I think they're a great team, a great cohesive team.

46:39and there's teams who win tournaments because they've basically just got the best players. And going into this tournament, Emmanuel Petit was very bold and said that France had eight of the best 11 in Europe. Now, I think Emmanuel Petit was probably including himself in that. But he probably wasn't far off. I think Barthez, Chiram, Desailly, Lizarazu, Vieira, Zidane, Omri. You've got certainly the majority of what would have been considered the best 11 in Europe at that time. Who have you missed out? Did you mention Big Pat Vieira? Did you mention Jokayev? I did mention Jokayev, Dugary. I think the underrated player in this team who had a really good tournament was Deschamps, who I think really gets kind of overlooked as, I mean, he was just such an intelligent player.

47:22Waterboy. Yeah. And then Laurent Blanc as well, who was getting towards the end of things. And they've also, and we'll talk about this later, but they've got incredible strength and depth. And that's what wins it. Their depth is incredible. In the final, they bring on Perez, Trezeguet and Wiltord. And Elka doesn't even get off the bench, nor does Manuel Petit. And I think just one last thing before we kind of set up the winning team. I think you've really got to understand that this is being celebrated already as the most exciting, the most attacking, the most open tournament. And Italy have just got through to the final, having barely got out of their own third.

47:59And I can't remember another game where there was such a neutral's favourite. You know, basically the whole of Europe, with the exception of if Italy wanted France to win. And one small corner of Corsica. Yeah, and that's what makes this such a brilliant final. Because I must say, as someone who has more than a fondness for the kind of tactical side of things, I was thinking if Italy do this, if Italy win this, it'd be such a funny ending. I suppose in a way it's a bit like how Greece won it in 2004, four years later. But it would have been such a funny ending to this brilliant festival of football if Italy had kind of catenachoed their way to the title.

48:36But then they were brilliant in the final, Italy. They didn't just sit in. I mean, they defended well, but they created a ton. To talk, to help us relive the final, we're joined now by Julien Laurent. Hello, Jules. Hello, guys. You OK? Yeah, pretty good. Jules is on holiday, everybody. Jules, where were you when Italy played France at Euro 2000? I was in Baro Latino, this bar in Bastille in Paris. There was a big party and a massive screen for the game. So there was a lot of us there watching the final and everything that unfolded in that final. Right. What were expectations like ahead of the game?

49:15I think a lot of it felt like a replay of the 1998 World Cup quarterfinals between France and Italy. And at the time, there's so many links between Italy and France football-wise. A lot of our players are playing there. There's obviously that quarter-final that France won on penalties at the Stade de France. That was only two years before. That was still very much in the minds of everyone. The rivalry goes back a long time, even if for many, many years, Italy were better. But if you look at some of France's best players, they were really made in Italy from Platini to Zidane to Trissage to players like that.

49:53So there was a lot on it. It felt like this was cousins, but enemies and favorite enemies and things like that. More than anybody else, really. More than the Germans, more than the English. Italy always felt like that with the French. So it was a bit like that. I heard a bit of what Coxie just said. This France team was so stacked with talent everywhere, really. And it felt that 98 was great, obviously. But it was not that convincing, really. When it was 2000, certainly up to the final, the French were so good going forward. They were so good defensively. they changed manager in between. But Le Maire was not really a coach, let's be honest.

50:27The guy was a clown when he was the joker, when he was the assistant to Jacquet, and then just took over with the momentum. Didn't have to do much, really. But then this final arrives, and I think there was a lot of people in France very optimistic before the final. Right. Okay. But Charlie, you were saying Italy actually played. The first half was not that memorable. I think Thierry Henry has a chance very early on. But after that, Italy actually looked like the better side. Yeah, and that went after they'd gone ahead. they had a lot of chance when France sort of poured forward trying to get that equaliser they chucked on a load of attackers Italy had many many chances to finish it and they couldn't Italy did take the lead though didn't they and Francesco Totti was at the heart of this yeah I mean he still looks back on his back heel for Pesotto to give it to Marco Delbecchio as you know Triglia another reason why he should have got the Ballon d 'Or but yeah Del Vecchio I mean that's I mentioned you know your Delivios your Presottos your Contes and Del Vecchio was another one who you know doesn't necessarily stand out as one of the great strikers of that generation James you mentioned that Cristian Vieri had been injured and wasn't in the squad Del Vecchio takes his chance you know and obviously the following year is a big part of Roma winning their first league title since 1984 even though they signed Batistuta but yeah what a moment for the the whippet like del vecchio brilliantly played into totti under pressure from deschamps clever little back heel jaluka passato del vecchio

52:05what's a time to score your first goal for your country a european final marco del vecchio of roma france jewels respond by pouring forward but leaving opportunities at the back Yeah, massively. I mean, again, I don't think Le Maire was a great tactician either, to be fair. And I think that was the last option. It was to chuck those players in. I mean, the Pires one is the most interesting one. I think by then, he almost had to do more throw-ins than he touched the ball, pretty much. And he'd never done throw-ins since he was until under nine or something like that. This is not what he used to do.

52:42But because he was playing on that left-hand side, he had to do that. But Le Maire also said to him, once you have the ball, I just need you to go and dribble and then just square the ball back. That's it. That's all I want you to do. If you get the ball, get to the goal line and then just square the ball back. That's the second half. The French have a lot of the ball. They just can't do anything with it. There's not enough creativity. There's not enough chances created. You know, Barthes is there with the last goal kick of the game, probably, and just plays it long. That's all we could do, really, was playing long.

53:12And then after that, obviously, there's a flick and then there's the Viltor goal, which is incredible in itself. Italy had really, really, really really big chances twice for del piero yeah and much as i guess the dutch had begun to understand the way that the game was going against the italians with those del piero chances i think maybe the sensation was creeping into azuri di forzi that it wasn't their day but well i would say tiredness right from playing that game against the dutch extra time you know the longer this game sorry just say one day less rest as well oh yeah Italy which comes into it I think yeah right that's an interesting point yeah extra time as well but yes with the extra day for all of that Italy are set to take the title we're into as Jules says the last goal kick of the game it's what 93 minutes of 94 Bartes hoops the ball up and the previously invulnerable Italian defence just basically themselves fluffs all the chance Giuliano misses the the header I think it is Cannavaro should have cleared it, but his header just falls at the foot of Wilthor.

54:22Wilthor. Oh! At the last second! Wilthor who egalizes at the last second! 48 minutes and 12 seconds! It's incredible! Yeah, incredible, because again, there was just nothing for us in that game at all. until the oldest streak in the game, really, that long ball is the flick from Trezeguet and then Viltor is there left foot. And Viltor was never world-class, let's be honest, but he was a great player to have in your squad, whether it was with Arsenal or back in France with Bordeaux or Rennes and even with the national team where he was never, obviously, the biggest name, never the big star, never the starter and just nothing like that.

55:05But you knew with him that you could just rely on him to do things like that. Okay, this is obviously exceptional, but this is where he was really good at. and after that, they just knew they were going to win this and it's obviously golden goal but they knew that the Italian bench was literally by the line, by the touchline, ready to go on the pitch and when the French scored, the French Serbs told them to sit down obviously and after that, there was just going to be one winner there's no way Italy could come back from that goal Yeah, they looked ready for somebody to put them out of their misery by I think the 13th, 14th minute of extra time when Piares had come on with only about four minutes of normal time to be played, robs the ball off Italy and gets it across for Trezeguet.

56:13Trezeguet, what a finish. He had such a kind of hate and love relationship with the national team because he wanted to be the starting number nine. He never really was because there was Thierry and Anelka and those guys. And when he was the starter, when he started or when he played, because of the style of number nine that he was, when he was not scoring, he hardly touched the ball and then got heavily criticized in l 'équipe and le Parisien, bad ratings, etc. So he never really felt that he was at home with the national team. And that's the paradox because this is very much his moment. And, you know, without him, there's not the Viltord goal.

56:49There's not certainly that winning golden goal. And for all the cups that he had, all the goals, even the 1998 World Cup, never really felt that that was his World Cup. But very much Euro 2000 was his while not being his because before that, he doesn't actually play that much. Jules, just two years later, France had that disastrous World Cup in South Korea going out of the group stage, I think without scoring a single goal. What happened in two years for this team to become that side? What happened was, we don't have enough time probably, but one, it's a squad that is aging now and two years older, to be with.

57:21It's a squad that is without Didier Deschamps, who, again, I heard a bit of what Coxie said before I came on. And it was not just the fact that he was the captain, but he was doing everything in that team, pretty much. He was more than just being the captain or more than just being that kind of defensive midfielder, whether you like his style and his work or not, he was just more than that, probably even more important off the pitch than on the pitch. 2002, he's not there anymore. And that's a massive hole that nobody could fill, really. But we could go more granular and more in detail of what went wrong.

57:56There's a lot of things going from, for example, the hotel where the players were staying, was a casino where you could find some players at 11 p.m. the day before the game, you know, at the casino, for example. It was open to everyone, not privatised at all. So there was a lot of things like that that were so wrong even before the tournament started. But the biggest thing for me was that guys like Deshaun Blanc were not there. And for some of the others, two years on, after the incredible double of World Cup and Euros, they probably were not good enough anymore to be in that squad.

58:33Julian Arance and so it was that France were Euro champions thanks to a golden goal just as the previous Euros have been determined by golden goal Oliver Bierhoff against the Czechs I think one of the iron if you like is that Trezeguet is the match winner here he's the villain six years later and the difference is probably about a foot in almost the exact same part of the goal Euro 2000 it flies into the roof for the net, 2006 hits the bar, bounces down, comes out. That's the fine margins that decide two finals. And Totti claims to have said, we'll make you pay for this with interest, David. Did he?

59:11David Trezeguet, who, of course, moved to Juventus after this tournament. And he said the welcome committee was lukewarm, to say the least. I mean, Will Tilt as well, scoring that goal. He was a very, very right-footed player, but his two most famous goals are with his left foot, the other one being at Old Trafford to win Arsenal the title in 2002. As Julian says, I mean, he was that kind of player. He was that 12th man, you know, that you'd bring on and hope might get something. He actually started that game, but, you know, he was filling in for injured players. But the goal he scores here, it's an incredible finish.

59:45But I really, it's one you really wouldn't expect him to make. He kind of nails it on his weaker foot. I think, yeah, most of the time you wouldn't expect him to score, but it's almost like the occasion he just rises to it in the same way that Trezeguet does on his weaker foot as well. Half volley on his weaker left foot. Beautiful. Reyes, why was Golden Goal such a terrible idea? Because it just killed teams going for a goal. I mean, it was classic unintended consequences. The idea was, oh, great, this will incentivize teams to go and score a goal in the end. Certainly at Euro 96, if you remember, the extra times, apart from England and Germany, which was pretty entertaining, they were often pretty dull because both teams were just like, well, conceding is the end, so let's just dig in.

1:00:28Okay. And it denied Italy the chance to come back and score an equaliser as they would have no doubt done. Yeah. I mean, maybe. I mean, one of the stories about this is, you know, it was Dino Zoff's one and only tournament as a coach. Zoff who, you know, we've been talking about Deschamps, you know, Deschamps obviously player, wins the World Cup, wins the Euros. Zoff had won the World Cup in 1982 with Italy. This was his chance to win something as a coach as well. and, you know, sort of Italy come back, they land, everyone goes off. It's the beginning of preseason and, you know, AC Milan's owner, Silvio Berlusconi, is doing his thing and basically says, this guy's a complete amateur.

1:01:11You know, he didn't see that they needed to put someone in Zinedine Zidane. Even I understood that. You know, he's unworthy of being national team coach. He's an absolute joke. And you have all these Italy international Milan players watching their owner say this. and Zoff resigns on principle just like you have humiliated me I am a man of honour and I will not take this humiliation so I'm out and the funny thing is Zidane was obviously the best player of this tournament but he doesn't actually do anything in the final it's a bizarre angle for his criticism I do not take lessons in dignity from Mr Berlusconi Agrafzov responded history's proved one of them right anyway Other postscripts.

1:01:56Well, France were walking back to Paris by almost half a million strong crowd on the Champs-Elysees. Probably Jules was bobbing up and down. Man of the tournament, Zinedine Zidane, getting the biggest cheer as the players came out to salute the crowd on the balcony of the Crillon Hotel. Not many Paris-born and bred players in this. Is that? Yeah, I suppose. Well, Tresigué was born in... Argentina. Argentina. Deschamps is from the Basque, sort of. Really? The Basque. Yeah. Obviously, Henri is from Paris. But, yeah, for Jules' algorithm, it's not his team. No. You mentioned earlier on Luis Figo and the Ballon d 'Or.

1:02:35A lot of people felt, Totti thought maybe it was heading to Italy, but Zinedine Zidane looked a likely candidate to receive the award until in October of that year, during a Champions League match between Juventus and Hamburg, Zinedine Zidane did what? Headbutted someone. Yes. foreshadowing yeah you got a five match suspension and that was largely regarded as the reason that Figo rather than him got the Ballon d 'Or crikey so there you go Deschamps was to retire soon after and become Monaco manager and took them to the Champions League final before too long pretty incredible stuff Italy lost Dino's off and got Trapatoni instead that went well and then by the time we next had a Euro was 2004 again still 16 teams yeah this is the ultimate course correction as Michael said you know 2000's about goal scoring the right team won 2004 is the with Greece winning it is very much 3-1-0 in the knockouts yeah I mean it's funny because I actually think 2004 was a really good tournament oh yeah I just think people didn't like a really defensive team winning was 2004 the game with the great was it the Czech Republic yes what a game what a game I don't think there's that much to choose between the tournaments.

1:03:54Really? Aside from the fact that I think we remember who wins it and probably the best player. Right. And the difference between it being Zidane and it being Theo Zagorakis is pretty strong in our minds. Like you were in 2004, you think of like, you know, the teams that were in the semis. I mean, it was what, Czech Republic and Greece. Czech Republic, the best team in tournament, I think. And then what was the other one? Portugal. Portugal v Netherlands, wasn't it? Netherlands are still pretty good. They were okay. They weren't as good as here. Even England in the quarterfinals. England were a good team that year.

1:04:24They were. Well, that's the other way they should have. I think it's probably more potential winners in that Euro 2004 than I've seen in any tournament. That said, though, the final game in each tournament means that 2000 is venerated in a way that... Exactly. Yeah. I mean, 2022, I don't think, was a great World Cup. But the last half hour of the World Cup is maybe the height of football. So if everyone remembers it's a great World Cup, I think we tend to kind of... maybe 50 % or more of our memories of a tournament are basically what happens in the final. And that's how a knockout tournament works.

1:04:55There you go, Charlie. You misremembered. I must have done. Excellent. Well, I really enjoyed delving back into this tournament, which has so many treats. A sweet spot in, I think, football evolution. There was money, there was great players, but it wasn't too much money and things. You're nodding, Michael. You're agreeing with me. What's going on? No, I agree with you. but I think, I mean, this is a personal experience, but I'm sure other people have the same thing. This is the first football tournament for me where I'm online, when I'm on the World Wide Web. And it was very exciting, having previously just been like, wow, you know, here's this player, he looks great, I'll never hear from him again.

1:05:34To be able to go on the internet and get news and reaction from other countries and stuff was incredibly exciting. And just following the transfer rumours of players who played well, someone like Nuno Gomez came from nowhere and suddenly everyone wants to sign Nuno Gomez. Winter Quarantino. And like, I mean, I'm guessing there's a lot of people who kind of listen to this podcast who've only known football through the internet and primarily or exclusively follow football through the internet. I'm one of them. But for me, that was a big thing. Like just opened it up. And particularly those who are like into European football.

1:06:08It was just you before, James. It was just Football Italia. But then, you know. Now suddenly, we had all this other stuff. That's where it all went wrong. Within two years, we were off the air. The internet killed ACG. There you go. So true. So, so true. Well, there you go. Well, that's lovely. That was Euro 2000. That was totally extra with a bit of Julian Laurence, but lots of Charlie Eccleshire, James Horncastle, Michael Cox, and producer Charlie, but also producer Jesse. We have a question, though, to resolve. Oh, yeah. So the question was, who is the first player born in the year 2000 to then feature in the Premier League?

1:06:47Producer Charlie has offered three clues. Number one, the team that he made his debut for was Manchester United. Okay, that wasn't what I thought. Number two, he's an England international. And number three, he spent most of his career playing outside of England. Huh. So he made his debut for Manchester United. For Manchester United. Okay, so... Is it Adnan Yanezai? It's not Adnan Yanezai. No, wait, he's not in England. Charlie, you had written down. I had written down Rhys Oxford. He could have been, though, Michael. He could have been. I had written down Rhys Oxford, who made his debut for West Ham in, I think, 2015.

1:07:32So I thought he could be in that conversation. No. Okay, so this guy was born. So this must have been in around 2016 or something that he would have made his debut. So I wonder if it was one of those guys He played for Van Gaal. Van Gaal played some slightly mad academy players. But he spent most of his career playing outside of England. Yeah. This was like... And then England International. And England International. So my first thought was Drew Bellingham, who spent most of his time, but clearly that doesn't fit because he's not the right age and Manchester United. And it's not Marcus Rashford.

1:08:04Wow, this is a good question. In about 2016. Or would it have been one of those players that like Mourinho chucked on to just say he could... that he plays academy kids? Jimbo said his name earlier on this podcast Wow! For England? So you were saying about that under-17 team Ryan Brewster, Phil Foden and Was it Ryan Brewster? Did he play for Man United? No He said Loftus-Cheek but Loftus-Cheek didn't play for Man United Tamori, no, Chelsea again So it's in that area England international could it have been Morgan Gibbs White no Jane Sancho no he was at Man City oh Can I have to do it Emil Smith Rowe I mentioned his name so oh Connor Gallagher was he ever at Man United no Mark Gay was he at Man United ok I'm just saying names George McEckren Phil Foden Angel Gomez

1:09:12Wow Angel Gomez Boy, listen, if you're looking for a question with which to fox and befuddle your friends there's one for you Decent, very good Nice one, producer Charlie Many thanks everybody, that's totally extra for this week We'll see you again next week with a special Wednesday show recounting the exploits of the Tuesday night Champions League sides But for now, from all of us here, it's goodbye.

1:10:08The Athletic FC