Totally Extra: Fernando Torres - the story of El Niño

0:00The Athletic FC

0:09Totally Extra. Today, Cheeky Nando, the Fernando Torres story. Liverpool's number nine dream who made supporters scream. And Gary Neville cream. And he's now manager of the Atletico Madrid's B team. We tackle El Nino in a way Nemanja Vidic could never quite in this Totally Extra.

0:40Unbelievable. Unbelievable. It's in and around Wednesday the 17th of December. Hello, listener. Gathered here for you in Totally Studio One, we've got Duncan Alexander. Hi, Duncan. Hello, James. Hello to you. We've got Sasha Gurionov. Welcome back, Sasha. Hola, James. Lovely to see you. And also welcome back, Asif Kapadia. Hi, James. Hi. It's been a while since you've joined us. I think 2018, maybe? 18 or 19, Maradona. Yeah. I feel like I've been on a couple of times, though. But each time you ever wait. Right, right. Sasha's had a similar experience. Absolutely. It just happens all the time. All right.

1:18So you've been avoiding me. Okay. You know Asif Kabadio is the Oscar and BAFTA winning director of Senna, Amy, Diego Maradona, 2073, and now more recently, Kenny Dalgleish, which is out now on Prime Video in the UK and Ireland. Have you seen this yet, Sato? Yes, I have, yeah. All right, any thoughts? Any notes? It is, I think, unbelievably atmospheric. It's got footage I haven't seen before. For example, you know, Daglish at Celtic. It also highlights a lot of the harrowing footage from the two tragedies which Liverpool were involved in, including some footage from Heisel I haven't really seen before.

1:49The studio reaction, which I then went to check out some more of, which, again, I haven't seen, like, soon as, you know, basically talking through it real time. Then we have Hillsborough. Again, there's footage of Daglish just waiting for the news of his son Paul. And, you know, as a parent, like, it is a harrowing experience on top of everything else. And then, of course, going through all the funerals and then to the last game. And again, I haven't focused that much. It's just like the harrowed look on his face in the derby against Everton. And he's just completely, you can see he's completely gone.

2:21And the thing is, I arrived in the UK about a month, I think, after he left the job. So I heard a lot about Daglish at the time, but he was just gone. But over the years, you kind of reconnect with memories. you see how people speak about him. And I think it's very difficult to make a film about a guy who's basically a living saint on Merseyside. I think there's no other way of putting it. I mean, he was the king and everything else, but I think he's kind of gone beyond that. And he is Liverpool's greatest player on so many levels, greatest figure on so many levels. So I think this is fair play.

2:49It was a difficult thing to make, and it was immensely, immensely watchable. I thought it was great. I don't know if you're intrigued by that. Amazon Prime Video in the UK and Ireland, and probably elsewhere in the world, as if. I'm not sure what the geo... So that's the plan to kind of world domination, obviously, but slowly. Nice. Love that. You're a Liverpool fan. I am. Excellent. That's good because we're here to talk about another Liverpool legend today, Fernando José Torres-Santz, who is a Spanish football manager and former player, I read, who played as a striker for Liverpool. Well, for Atletico Madrid and then Liverpool and then briefly Milan and then Atletico Madrid and then Sagantozu, interestingly.

3:29but Liverpool is pretty much I think the peak it's peak Torres that's what we're here to talk about today as if you said I love Torres so much it made my wife jealous he is the guy who was a part of that kind of Rafa Benitez Spanish kind of taking over Liverpool we became Spanish for a while and there was something about him there's something about this young man who came over in his peak or as he was approaching his peak and was so good, so fast, so powerful, great shots, great head. And just the way he played, that I genuinely loved him. Like, there's not many, I love Liverpool, I've been a fan for a long time, but there are not many players that I kind of was in love with.

4:12And it genuinely would make my wife, she'd really piss her off. She's like, you really love him, don't you? What is it about him you love more? I mean, he's cute as heck. Yeah, his hair, his smile. The freckles. It was just like the joy that he, and I guess now when you think about it, And, you know, one team you didn't mention was Chelsea. It was like, it was the kind of innocence that kind of the joy, the innocence that comes with being young and brilliant. And he has his body works, right? His fit. And he scored amazing goals. Yeah. It was just a, it was a great moment of Liverpool once again trying to come together to win the league.

4:48Yeah. Wow. Bittersweet. Bittersweet memories. So actually we're going to be very careful not to mention Chelsea anywhere near you in today's podcast. But your thoughts about Torres briefly before we get into the meat of it? There isn't much I could add. But from my point of view, he was just so, I think the word I described was dashing. You know, when he arrives and he's, I don't know, he's like this young horse running through a field. And the thing I remember about him after he scored, he's always running. When he's in his prime, he's always running. He runs away after scoring. and this great I think Liverpool with him with Gerrard behind him Liverpool moved and when they moved we'll get to it in the spring of 2009 oh my god they moved right he looked a little bit like kind of Legolas on steroids maybe because he also had that kind of Elfin tattoo didn't he out of Lord of the Rings yeah he was a Lord of the Rings fan or still is probably I don't know if he is a Lord of the Rings fan really?

5:38well I mean he sort of would be if he had a tattoo you just googled some quotes or language I'm not sure I think Satisfaction is like a horse is kind of true. Like, he did move. He galloped through defences. And he did always do knee slides after scoring, which, as we know, he should only do once the clocks have gone back. But, yeah, for sort of two or three years. And I think the point about him joining when he was young is a really key one because, you know, Liverpool hadn't signed a player in their prime, particularly from abroad, for so long. And he kind of captured the imagination of, like, non-Liverpool fans alike.

6:11He certainly did when he arrived. And when he left as well. Well, yeah. Well what a story arc Fernando Torres had He had the right stuff He turned a bit duff and then he got buff But there's much more to it than all of that We'll get on to Fernando very very shortly But first enough my yakking What do you say a quiz question Fernando Torres is the top scoring Spanish player In Premier League history everybody But can you name The other members of the top five Top scoring Spanish players in Premier League history And a special mega bonus If you get those and come up with number six as well so he is the top scoring Spanish player we're looking for the next four and possibly five, throw one in now if you'd like but we'll come back to this at the end of the show as if you've got a...

6:55I was going to put in Luis Garcia Diego Costa is a yes yeah I was going to say Costa alright well we'll see what else you've got Duncan come the end of the show right now it's time to open up that almanac this is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson part of the Athletic FC podcast network.

7:19It's the week before Christmas and in and around this time in football history 30 years ago, a big one. The European Court of Justice brought its gavel down in Jean-Marc Bosman's favour in his case against RFC Liege allowing footballers henceforth to move freely from their clubs at the end of their contracts. They're saying going on a Bosman rather than just being how Brummies commuted became a common transfer phrase the stuff of sporting directors nightmares you have Pogba who later went from Man U to Juve on a Bosman Lewandowski went from Dortmund to Bayern Pirlo free from Milan to Juventus crazy Steven Maneman from Liverpool famous France almost went on a Bosman but not quite not quite that was 30 years ago 29 years ago it was the week that Middlesbrough had to call off a game against Blackburn because they had 23 players unavailable with the flu the FA docked them three points which given that they went down by just two points at the end of the season is unbelievable ridiculously harsh, even at the time people thought that was harsh, maybe a point but three, and also given what we then found out in 2020 about how you could postpone games quite easily for a form of flu It does, you know.

8:39Which team did that again? Borough. Middlesbrough, yeah. They went down with the flu for real. Did Man City trade?

8:50A little bit of politics. My name's Isaac Vardy, goodnight. 25 years ago, Paolo Di Cania was a good sport, catching a cross from his teammate rather than scoring when he saw Everton's goalkeeper Paul Gerrard injured. It's Canuto. Gerrard comes a long way and he had to be certain that he's pulled a muscle in going for the ball. Oh dear, Gerrard, he's down. Everton don't have a goalkeeper. And Di Canio, sportingly, almost unbelievably catches the ball there. What nerve does that take? How many players would have headed that goalwards? But Everton's goalkeeper overstretching himself in obvious agony.

9:28And the whole ground rises to what must be one of the moments of the season. Takania was later awarded the FIFA Fair Play Award for his action. Of course, FIFA will give an award to anybody these days. Why are you shaking your head at this? Because it's one of the most overrated gestures I've ever seen on a football pitch, I think, because it wasn't a very easy chance. It was pre-XG, so no one could really get their head around what sort of chance it was. But he was a long way out from goal. There were other players near Paul Jarrell. Yeah, but he chose not to play on. I mean, it wasn't unsporting.

10:00It wasn't unsporting, but I don't think it was worthy. of an award. Was it the fact that it was Paolo Di Canio who had previously been noteworthy for pushing refs over? Was it before or after he pushed the refs over? It was after. It was the redemption. Yeah, I think people just couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe it. Yeah, there you go. Oh, one final one. 24 years ago, Dog and Dubai enthusiast Michael Owen became the first English player since Kevin Keegan to win the Ballon d 'Or. I promise you to keep it good for always. Bravo. Thank you very much. very heavy well we've had a great season for Liverpool winning all these five trophies and I'm very happy and delighted to have had my name to that list Michael another Liverpool legend who had a Liverpool Madrid transfer but going the other way of course are you a big Michael Owen fan?

10:53I don't mind Michael Owen, he was great when he was young he doesn't make your wife jealous no, I never loved Michael the same way but he was again so young so brilliant so fast and then once he lost the pace once he started getting injured playing for England he was never the same never the same again also now Scots winning goals in the Premier League season but he won a few trophies I mean he scored the winning goals in FA Cup finals he did win trophies right Michael Owen is a subject surely for another Totally Extra but right now we're all about Fernando Torres

11:30The goal in the second, Torres' goal! With Fernando Torres! It's the player that we wanted, the kind of player that we need, with passion, with everything, for scoring a lot, of course.

11:56Fernando made me feel different. Torres has gone for the return. Oh, my word. Fernando Torres. Electric once again. It's Torres to give Chelsea a place in the Champions League final. The headline has been written. Unbelievable. Unbelievable.

12:26Fernando Torres was signed by Rafael Benitez and Liverpool in July 2007. They almost doubled their previous record signing for him. 27 million-ish they spent. 20 to 26. I'm not sure how it's broken down. Right. But whatever the figure is, I mean, bless. Chump change. Crazy. it was huge as if I mean Duncan was saying that it was a transfer that caught the attention of fans of all clubs why was it so special? I think as you said he was a star player he could have gone anywhere and he came to Liverpool and we just didn't really sign players that were one of the best in the world and it was a key thing of the team became the Spanish team so you know having Rafa there and Alonso and all these great players.

13:18Mascherano You know, we had like, we have potentially, we have Alonso, who's now coaching Real Madrid. And we may have the next coach who was playing as well for us, Arbaloa. You know, all these players that were there. And Fernando now joins in. He's currently managing Atletico Madrid's B team. A lot of people say that when Diego Simeone one day moves on, he might dot, dot, dot. The thing was, I mean, Atletico Madrid is the story so much for Fernando Torres. is he'd been such a legend for them and a name that I think fans of other clubs had heard whispered, this incredible kid who'd carried that team on his back through their darkest years, really.

13:58They'd been relegated for, I think, only the second time in their history. Shortly before he joined them at the age of 11, his career arc had been really the stuff of schoolboy dreams. Joining the boyhood club at 11, they turned out an offer for him from Real Madrid at the age of 12. he gets named the best under 15 player in Europe at the age of 14 by the age of 15 he's got a buyout clause of 3 million euros he wins the under 16 European Championship with Spain was leading scorer and player of the tournament hits the winner in the final repeats that in the under 19 Championship makes his Atletico Madrid debut at the age of 17 by 19 he's already captaining the club and this is a team that contains Diego Simeone and he's got the armband over him and he won his first Spain Cup before he was 20 remarkable stuff Chelsea had been in for him a couple of times through that as his legend grew but Atleti would never part with him but come 2007 they were facing some serious financial difficulties and he wanted to win some trophies and Liverpool who'd just reached two Champions League finals in three seasons under Rafa seemed a good bet it didn't take him long to make his mark either his opening game was against Chelsea

15:34Sash, he started as he meant to go on. His home debut, he's up against the hapless Ben Haim. he kind of shows to come inside and then just cuts across him on the outside just places him to the far corner and it's a move that we kept on seeing over and over and over after that and I think it was such a dashing start it was, you know, is he going to keep it up? and my God he did also he kept up excellent performances against Chelsea he's gone to score about seven goals against them right, the club that had twice tried to sign him and would come back in from it again I think there was another additional piece about signing him from Atletico Madrid Liverpool didn't sign him from Barcelona from Real Madrid they didn't sign him from Royalty They signed him from his boyhood club that was competing with the guys who were up at the top, which kind of Liverpool have always felt as a City as, and also as a club at the time.

16:19They were trying to break through that ceiling. They were trying to compete with the likes of Chelsea. Well, there's maybe another parallel with the Liverpool and Atletico Madrid, which is also evidenced in that opening goal against Chelsea, which the ball through for him comes from Steven Gerrard. And the parallels between the two, both have joined their boyhood club, both have essentially carried them or were to carry them through dark years. And that relationship... I decided to join Chelsea at some point. But that relationship that they developed, the kind of Torres and Gerrard get-a-room years, it's something that's really, really sweet.

16:55Yeah, that double act was amazing. It was beautiful to watch, you know. And the pace, so dynamic, it was so fast, and the kind of intelligence of the passes and the runs and the ball in and then the finishes, that emphatic finishes. It was just beautiful football. It was so exciting at the time, which is why it's so easy to fall in love with. That team had so many great players, Alonso alongside as well, and like you said, Mastroano. And they would beat the big teams and then draw against the other teams. That was our problem always. Fernando Torres says about Steven Gerrard, he understood everything about me.

17:27I just needed to move into space. And the first thing he would do is try to find me. And he did, whether it was with a long or a short pass. Stevie was the player that completed my game. I will never find someone like him again. And here's what Steven Gerrard had to say about Fernando. I played for Liverpool for 17 years as a professional. But Fernando made me feel different. Every time I go onto the pitch, I felt as if I could either assist a goal or score a goal. And I always felt like the team was going to win because he could win football matches alone. My best years were when Fernando arrived.

18:04It was my favourite partnership. Do you think that part of that relationship was the fact that Fernando was maybe the only person who could understand what Steven Gerrard had been through or was going through in terms of the responsibility he felt at that club? Fernando Torres, who'd been the child star, the symbol, the big hope for the fans through dark times, and Gerrard with that similar responsibility. I'm not sure how much of it is understanding or how much of it is mutual respect. because, I mean, if they weren't both great players, you know, that really wouldn't function. But I think in terms of carrying a burden, you kind of see it in the Torres interview scenes.

18:39I think it feels like Gerrard is the person, is the player at Liverpool to whom he could always speak and who could understand him, including, you know, his very final conversations where Gerrard also managed to see two sides of the story, which I think I get the impression from Torres' interviews that he doesn't really think necessarily anyone else did. So I think they understood where the other person was. But I think if they weren't both great players, you wouldn't be able to develop this sort of relationship. Torres has suddenly got this world-class partner to work with. And the same for Gerrard.

19:08For all that, there were other amazing players in there. To have somebody with whom he could create. You know who was the top scorer before Torres arrives at Liverpool? Peter Crouch. Yeah, Peter Crouch. And Peter Crouch, I was listening to a podcast that he did a few years ago. And he is the guy who has his Torres moments. If another Torres turns up and he can see that he knows everyone in the changing room, they all speak Spanish and he can see that him and Gerard absolutely love each other and Crouch is like well you know what can I do I can't really compete with this and eventually Crouch leaves to go to Borsmouth but he's the guy looking on seeing this going oh my god like as a professional I can see I cannot compete with this yeah he's the woman in the street watching Stephen Gerard turn his head to sorry I said no no I was just going to say for me you know there's a kind of Dalglish rush thing the way that one of them would just say I'll put it into space you just get there don't worry about it be there and that's what I see the kind of relationship with Gerrard and Torres was a bit like that.

20:06So Torres was a player who came for three and a half seasons, didn't win anything and then broke Liverpool supporters' hearts by moving to Chelsea. Why is he still so venerated? Why is it that we have... Brent writes in saying the Nike-Torres bounce, Spanish Liverpool advert was one of the best ads Nike produced. I just remember how phenomenal a partnership he performed with Steven Gerrard. Alan says absolutely adored him. while he was at Liverpool, arguably the best striker on the planet. Why did so many people have this... Why did he touch people in a way that, as he says, other foreign players at Liverpool haven't done?

20:41I mean, speaking as a non-Liverpool fan here, you've got to remember that at that time, Chelsea and Manchester United were so good and almost looked... They kind of toppled Arsenal and Arsenal had fallen away. And as a kind of neutral, you wanted another team to challenge Chelsea and United. and a Torres there at Liverpool did that in a way that was, to the earlier point, so swashbuckling that it kind of just, yeah, there was a romance to it and particularly the season 2008-09 when that, you know, in the spring it did look like Liverpool were going to hunt them down and obviously won 4-1 at Old Trafford, it was just, yeah, it was kind of exciting and I think that's what football fans want, you know, they want to tune in and a bit like when Henry was at Arsenal, it's that same sort of like, you'd watch it just because you knew something amazing.

21:26Often it didn't. As you said, often it would be a 0-0 with Bolton or something. But when it did, it was sealed into your mind. That first season, Torres became the first Liverpool player since Robbie Fowler to score more than 20 Premier League goals in a season. He actually got to 24 in the league, 33 in all competitions in 46 matches, which is pretty phenomenal stuff, six in the Champions League on their route to the semi-final. And then at the end of that season came Euro 2008 with one of his finest moments of all, the goal in the final, one of Spain's most important goals ever.

22:25I love that tournament 2008. Central Europe, Austria and Switzerland. And that final established stadion, I think he was playing up front on his own because Villa got injured. And he hit the post, I think. And then it's a very striker's goal. He's three on goal. Lehmann comes out to the edge of the box. I don't know what he's doing. He just chips him. But, I mean, Spain only won 1-0, but they were comfortably much the better team. And they romped through that tournament playing very freely. And the only team I gave in promise was Italy, quarterfinals. Nil-nil draw, went to penalties. But that was, I think, the peak Torres at that time because I think that was the final incarnation of Torres before injuries started coming in.

23:06So, I mean, we'll get to them. But the run-in to 2008, to that summer, I think he tied slightly towards the end of, like, April. But there was one moment which we didn't pick, which for me I thought was the moment of that season. it's when Liverpool played Inter in the Champions League Liverpool beat them at home 2-0 to a couple of late goals I think Materazzi got sent off and then they went to the San Siro and it's the first time they've played each other since 1965 and of course in 1965 Inter beat them 3-0 controversial refereeing there's you know separate podcasts on that and I thought Inter really believed they could do it and we were there in Milan and they think they can do it and San Siro that night it's the only time I've been it was absolutely magnificent so it was lots of colours the atmosphere was amazing Inter thought they were going to do it.

23:51And put Liverpool under quite a bit of pressure until Borduso got sent off. And a few minutes later, Torres gets the ball at the edge of the box and on the turn just smashes the bottom corner.

24:12That was the end of Inter and we definitely knew we won at that stage. Entire hand goes berserk and I think this is the night where the Torres bounce takes off because after that they're just absolutely everywhere and Liverpool kind of assert themselves and then for the last I think 15 minutes San Siro kind of goes you know we've lost this but let's show ourselves as well the atmosphere is amazing and the whole occasion was probably my favourite European away aside from the finals because it was it was such a grand occasion on such a grand stage and this was like Taurus this is it I've arrived here now Amazing He also scored away at Derby in that season in 07-08 which we have done a podcast Nearly drew with him Great finish That was his first away goal, wasn't it?

24:49Was it? It could have been, yeah. It was on Boxing Day. And he also had a shot, I think, which Gerrard put in for the win in the 90th minute. This is Derby who couldn't win a point. Liverpool need to do with him. So this is, as Asi have alluded to, sometimes the troughs and the highs of Liverpool at the time. So the injuries began to take a toll for him at Liverpool. With Spain, that European Championship victory really ushered in a period of dominance that stretched through certainly to 2012 in many ways, still continuing now. they won two European championships World Cup in 2010 he was joint top scorer in 2012 scored in the final in that 4-0 win over Italy was part of the World Cup winning team in 2010 although that was very much wrapped up in injury as well 2008 by the way he came third in the Ballon d 'Or voting behind Messi and Ronaldo so that's the kind of status he was enjoying but 2008 he goes back to Liverpool after the European championships and has what is the most successful season that he would enjoy at Anfield?

25:492008-9? They only lost two games throughout the campaign, I see. I know. We were so close. I mean, that's the thing. There's kind of trying to win the league, you know, against Ferguson and Inger and all of that. And then, of course, the thing we haven't talked about, which is money starts coming in. Owners start changing. You know, we have these American owners who made all these promises. And that's the underneath it all in the background. Liverpool is all the arguments going on. and the fact is players start leaving. Alonso wants to go, you know, Rafa wants to get rid of him and then he leaves.

26:20A lot of our star players start going and the team gets really fractured and Gerrard obviously stays and then there's a point when Torres isn't, you can just see he's lost his pace. He's not the same guy. His confidence has gone. That's the thing about him when he arrives. He just has his confidence of youth. He's just so young. He's just like, I'm just going to turn, not look, shoot, bang, top corner. He did it again and again and again and then suddenly he doesn't trust himself. But me, my memory of it, There was a point when Liverpool sort of felt, well, maybe he's not going to be the same player.

26:48And Chelsea are going to pay how much? Not that season, but it comes a bit later after the serious injuries. Then you just think, well, he's not quite the same guy. Well, 2008-2009, only two defeats in the whole campaign. But 11 draws, which saw eventually Liverpool finish four points behind Man United, who they beat in that famous 4-1. A magnificent goal from Fernando Torres in that. Sasha, your highlight of that campaign came, though, down at Fratton Park. Yeah, I mean, of all places. So I think just to sort of wheel back a bit. So Torres started getting hamstring injuries. Villa, and then with Spain, and at Marseille.

27:26His backup is, at this stage, Robbie Keane, whom Liverpool have sent for, I think,£90 million that summer. And Robbie Keane is a glaring example of a player who is not a bad player, but basically a rabbit in headlights. He comes in and he misses loads. One of the two defeats was against White Hart Lane. It's boyhood clubs. Yeah, I mean, they're all boyhood clubs, you know, playing against each other. It's tough. So he misses a lot of chances. Pablo Schenko gets a last-minute winner. Then Liverpool go through a stage of, I think, seven draws in ten games. And it's like, this is really stuttering.

27:56And then Torres comes back. And he gradually is going back into the team. And his first proper game, when he's back, is against Chelsea, where he scores two late goals. The first one is ahead. The second one, I think, he taps it in. But again, one thing we sort of need to probably accentuate a bit more on, heading prowess. He's really good in the air. Yeah. So when he goes to Japan later, he only scores five goals. And four of them are hit. Of course, he's back twice the size. But no, it's remarkable how no one could get near him. And he's really good in the air. And so he beats Chelsea. And then, because he's still not fully fit, he's only on the bench against Portsmouth.

28:29Liverpool are struggling. Liverpool are 2-1 down with 15 minutes. Maybe they're about to go 2-1 down. But anyway, they're toiling. Crouch is playing for the time. I think David James is in goal and there's like still Campbell and Distant and Crouch is celebrating the Pompey goals by the way none of that none of that not celebrating stuff and then Torres comes on and I have never seen to this day an impact of a player coming on the pitch and the opposition just absolutely well can still see if they're going to absolutely themselves collectively the entire defence post-mortem players just start running around like Distant's running around and Campbell's trying to run around everyone's just running around and they're looking for Torres and Torres is going there there and they cannot keep up part of this chaos Liverpool get a goal back I think Kites again Torres just disrupts the goal and then in the I think it's like 90th minute cross comes in Torres header probably from 6 yards kind of David James and it looks pretty bad because he gets two hands to it but it's a really powerful header in front of the away end Fratton Park I think Fratton no we were there in front of the away end and it's just like this oldie ground and it's shaking and the whole I mean it's good atmosphere throughout the game and then Torres winning away and Liverpool are back in the title race and the whole place is going berserk.

29:38And all I remember from my time is a really dark terrace and just a ray of light somewhere in front of me and Torres running across. Ben Ayoub. Torres won it! Fernando Torres! Right into town and right into town with a goal. Once again, it is an astonishing Liverpool comeback. And once again, the name on every single Liverpool fan's lips. Is that a Valmino? But Liverpool at that moment stayed in the title race. Had they drawn, they would have been out of it completely. But they'd just hung on. And then? And then what, Duncan? Well, then I don't want to negate Sasha's excitement at what he saw.

30:21But then they draw one all at home to City. And then lose two nil away to Middlesbrough. And essentially, those four points dropped is what cost them the title. Because they only dropped two more points the rest of the season, which was the famous 4-4 at home to Arsenal. So that's what made the 4-1 win at United, which came a few weeks after the Middlesbrough defeat, impressive yet it was a bit like, oh, what could have been, wasn't it? Because did it put Liverpool top at the time? Because of games in hand, I think. But it never quite felt like they, you know, United always had that little edge.

30:54But Liverpool were in the chase. I mean, you could see by United's reaction throughout that game, by the shambolic reaction of United defending players, you know, Vidić getting sent off, Vidić getting muscled on the ball. and one of the most famous moments again of Torres at Liverpool Vidi's just folding and yeah and he holds up a five to the crowd yes yeah and it's just that whole thing and again I take your point Duncan that maybe the form took a dip but again Fratton Park we believed really in it and I think after United because the thing that happens around United as well so around the time so Liverpool at the start of March go on this run so they beat but they also around this time they beat Real Madrid Torres has never beaten Real Madrid as a captain of Atletico Madrid he's never beaten them they went 1-0 away and in the home leg it was again unbelievable opening because he manages to first of all destroy Cannavaro with a little dummy he goes around and gets saved and then a few minutes later the ball goes forward he basically smashes Cannavaro out of the way in the air then Coit comes in Pepe tries to defend Torres tugs him I mean it's all in the game though and then Pepe's I think protesting and then Torres taps the ball in the oreletic bounce Pepe rather lost it Torres almost found it it's come for Kau It's Torres!

32:06Liftoff for Liverpool! Fernando Torres gives them the lead on the night and doubles their money on aggregate. Real Madrid just overrun. So he turns to the Real Madrid fans with Torres on the back, turns around, screams, punches the air and runs away celebrating. And that was for him personally an unbelievable moment because I think he always scored against them before, obviously always the second team. And finally, he gets to knock after Real Madrid out of Europe. Finally. What's your favourite Torres moment or goal then, Asif? I think there's one that, for me, I used to think it's like Van Basten go.

32:43Is it a Blackburn one? It's the one where he kind of hits it and he's not even facing a goal, smashes it in a far corner. I think that's like an amazing shot. And he would do that kind of thing where he would just hit it and he'd go in a top corner. Here's Torres. Early strike. Oh, my word. Absolutely magnificent. You just don't save them. Yeah, there's one he does like that from Atletico, and I can't remember who it's against, Malaga or something, where it's a kind of flying volley, but a Van Basten-esque angle. Duncan, what about you? Well, it's not going to be popular, but I would always go for the winner for Chelsea at the Nou Camp.

33:21Because, I mean, just I'm a huge fan of teams attacking so much that they've left no one back. So that when a player receives a pass, he looks or so, but he's not because he's in his own half. And then, you know, he'd had a tough time before he scored that goal. And to have the wherewithal to go around the keeper and slot it in, it was, and obviously make Gary Neville very happy. Indeed. He's in, he's in. Torres is in. This could be the most dramatic story of the season. It's Torres to give Chelsea a place in the Champions League final. The headline has been written.

34:01Unbelievable! Unbelievable! I said, the last 18 months have just been forgotten in two seconds. Tasha? No, I think I will probably settle for the one of the San Siro for me. You've got so many options. The one at Sunderland that kind of kick-started that 08-09 campaign. Any of the three, probably the first of the three against West Ham at Anfield. Blackburn, we mentioned Arsenal in the Champions League. That was a lovely turn. shoot the one against Man United I think is a particular favourite Speaking of that Barcelona goal the opportunity he had against 2014 in the famous Gerrard Slip match when he was playing for Chelsea against his former club at Anfield 2014 we all remember Liverpool's title doomed title challenge and Chelsea already a goal up because of Gerrard Slip and Torres is put through and it looks exactly the same and I'm guessing as if that was very much a conscious choice of his not to score against his former 12.

35:03I think he realised where he was and not only did he not want to celebrate, he didn't actually want to score so he didn't have to choose to celebrate, I guess. But that game's so weird because Mohamed Salah was also playing for Chelsea that day. So like the kind of... All the world. Yeah, like in Interstellar, everything is happening and you can just, you know, go to the season you want from that exact point. Excellent. well so that season 809 Liverpool came close and remember these were days when Liverpool had been waiting decades for a title so at this stage so this is we're talking 2000 19th year since the title yeah at the end of that campaign in the last match he did make it 50 Liverpool goals in all competitions which was faster than any other player had done since the days of Robbie Fowler and you know what great about that as well no penalties no penalties penalties right but the injuries were already mounting up you mentioned the hamstring issues that he had recurringly through the 2008-2009 campaign and then the following year i think was even more difficult 18 league goals but a campaign that was curtailed really by the knee surgery which he underwent in april he had two of them i think so he did his knee against reading FA Cup replay Torres injured, Gerrard injured, Benny Hünn injured and that was after groin injuries earlier in the season so I think he had that operation and then he went back and he did his knee again against Benfica in the quarter finals of the Europa League, went back with the same surgery to be fit for the World Cup Yeah, rushed back struggled for form didn't really conquer a starting place in the Spain team at the World Cup did play in the World Cup final but then picks up the injury in extra time looks absolutely distraught while Spain are busy celebrating the world title at the end.

36:54Meanwhile, on a club front, there had been a seventh-place finish, Asif, which meant no Champions League the following year. It's a kind of recurring theme with us. We'd come second, and then the season after that, it'd be, OK, this is the one, and then some of the players would leave. Other players would come who never quite live up to the standard that we needed to do. the coach will leave or something and then we'll drop out of the Champions League and it was like a regular kind of up and down up and down thing we never really managed to sustain it two or three seasons in a row right in order to win it something would self-destruct that was that was always kind of going on and so yeah it was a it was a bit of a disaster and then people started leaving and that kind of Spanish team falls apart really everyone goes to Real Madrid and Barcelona.

37:40Do you remember the the game in in April of that season away at Birmingham it was 1-1 there was about 20 minutes to go and you need a goal and you've got 20 minutes to go so Benitez takes Torres off and Gerrard's face is a picture that he just turns away in disgust Rafa will shortly disappear from the Liverpool scene and in comes Roy Hodgson, Xavi Alonso is already gone, Mascherano is gone Hodgson himself would soon be gone as it turned out and the club under Hicks and Gillette who were far from the best owners that a manager could get were in real difficulty and busy selling up to... They didn't busily sell out.

38:21They went to court. It was Ryan. Martin Boughton, another Chelsea fan, wasn't he? Yes. Who saves the club. Okay. He's meant to be working for them, and then he helps the club get away from their hands and then helps them. But they weren't going to go into receivership. They were in massive trouble. Good Lord. Yeah. I think people forget how bad things were. So this would have been when? 2009 summer? 2010 summer? Yeah, 2010 is when it really kicks off. Basically, these guys are being forced to sell. I think the fans start protesting quite loudly. This is the time when you've got Echo and the Bunnymen making protest videos.

38:53Yeah, possibly at the time as well. Did they do anything? But I think there was... Well, no, Ian McCulloch did. I think at the time there was a great thing about Liverpool fans kind of finding a voice in this protest against the owners. But against all of that backdrop, Fernando Torres, who essentially had left his boyhood club to go in search for titles, I just kind of looked around and went, yeah, I'm not sure it's going to be here that I do that. And feels maybe I should be accepting a move elsewhere. Now, Asif, I think you mentioned that he spoke, or maybe it was you, Sasha, that he spoke to Gerrard.

39:27Gerrard was somebody he could talk to about anything, including about his decision or the question of whether he would actually leave Liverpool. But I think even before he came to Gerrard, I think it just shows that he was quite, he's quite a serious guy, I think. so he is looking around him what's happening and he's like you know damien camoli who is the you know the sporting director what's going on and uh you know uh are we going to keep masquerade this is before masquerade gets sold and yeah and then masquerade gets sold and he's like well this is broken promises already like how serious are we about this thing hodgson comes in like you know what are we going to do and i think he's the impression i'm getting again this is you know him talking talking about it afterwards including an excellent interview with simon hughes for one of his books a few years ago and it's called the ring of fire so he's basically trying to gauge like how much do they want me here and where are we going and he's not getting a very emphatic positive response on either front and including with daglish when daglish comes in like he doesn't get the feeling that they're going to build me they're going to build something here with me they want me here maybe they want me here temporarily to the end of the season until something ties over he's very scathing there's a comment about suarez coming in and the fact that Camoli doesn't see Suarez as a goal scorer.

40:38You know, you're going to be the goal scorer, Suarez is going to support you. And he's just there going, what is going on here? And I think eventually he realizes that he's not really wanted and also the leaks to the press start. And he maintains, it's not him. He maintains, you know, a game was being played around him to this day. Right. Well, I mean, I guess that's kind of normal transfer business, isn't it? Club blame player. Player says, actually, it was club's best interest. And we've all seen the quotes probably from Jamie Carragher saying, Actually, when we heard 50 million for Torres, we thought we couldn't believe our luck.

41:09I think it's literally the words of the Liverpool players. Yeah, yeah, he was clearly on the decline. Chelsea hadn't spotted it, which was handy for Liverpool. This is interesting. Why didn't they spot it? Because my understanding, again, is that Liverpool have thought that medically... Right. I mean, I think that knee was a major concern. And the fact that very last minute in the transfer window, he managed to get through that medical with this... I mean, again, no doctor here, but it seems to be quite a serious issue. is interesting how he got through that. But I think you get certain clubs who become fixated on players.

41:38Absolutely. And the fact that Liverpool and Chelsea played each other about 56 times a season in that period, I mean, they would have seen him, as you've mentioned, score so many goals against them. I think just, it was almost, the prize was signing him rather than having him to pit in the team. And he did it right. I mean, it wasn't, it didn't work out that well at Chelsea, but he was there like surprisingly long time and played in some, you know, relatively big moments. Well, we'll get on some of those big moments. and some of the little ones next.

42:2731st of January, 2011, perhaps the most exciting conclusion to a January transfer window that didn't involve a purple object ever. Torres leaving for Liverpool's rivals Chelsea for a British transfer fee of£50 million, becoming the sixth most expensive player in the world, and Liverpool using that money simultaneously to bring in Luis Suarez and Andy Carroll. I can't believe that the Carroll signing, they didn't have to sign him. He was injured for two months. They knew he was injured for two months. we were all excited as if were you excited? Andy Carroll not really just generally Luis Suarez I didn't know I don't know if I knew if I'm being honest did I know that much about Luis Suarez we knew that he scored a lot of goals in the Eredivisie but there was always an asterisk about that yeah I didn't know he was going to be as good as he was right I mean he was amazing he was another brilliant link up with Gerrard they were fantastic and you know Sturridge and Sterling it was a great a great team was he maybe even better than Fernando Torres.

43:30He had kind of street smarts in a way. He was tough. He was dark, as we know. You know, he would do things that you don't want anyone doing. But, I mean, he just had anger and this sort of passion that we'd sort of lacked, I guess. You know, Gerrard was always one that would try really hard. But, yeah, Suarez brings a whole other level and he's still playing, I think. Well, yeah, he had bite, let's put it that way. Torres, meanwhile, was down at Stamford Bridge and Sascha of course you were there at his debut which came against who? Well it would have been against Liverpool It came against Liverpool the narrative gods delivered a treat on that one and Liverpool were 1-0 winners there at Stamford Bridge Daniel Aga gave his old teammate a little bit of a welcome an elbow to the face I don't think it was just him Aga was the elbow to the face but he got treated pretty roughly I think He's got a lighter thrown at him as well Yeah you can see him picking up the lighter and saying I mean there was a big banner saying you paid 50 million for Margie Clark I don't know if you remember Margie Clark but she was in Letta de Brezhnev as if and also Coronation Street Blonde of course sorry Sasha I think he also mentioned there was something about his interview signing for Chelsea that he was signing I think for a big club I think it was a bit of a faux pas and then by the time he's taken off on Liverpool 1-0 up there's lots of singing about you should have stayed at the big club.

44:59And obviously it was the score, etc. But yeah, he got, it was one of the most, more hateful away ends I've been in because I think people at the time very much saw that this is the guy who jumped ship for a team that was pretty much anti-Liverpool in what it was. And there's not really a history of that in English football. Like Italian football team, big players go from big club to big club quite a lot. But this, at the time, it seemed like a huge soap opera that we'd never really seen before. It worked out well for Liverpool, though. I mean, we talked about the injury concerns, and Liverpool got a bunch of money, some of which they spent on a player who proved to define the next era of successes for the club.

45:38Fernando, for his part, well, he got the trophies he was after, but in all other regards, did he just simply turn out to be the latest victim of the curse of the number nine, the Chelsea number nine shirt? Maybe, it seems like it. My thing is, I don't know if you've talked about this before on the pod, he just doesn't look right in blue interesting I think there's a colour thing going on here red is good for him as a career he obviously wins a lot at Chelsea but I never thought he looked right in that shirt what do I know so obviously Atletico Madrid red and white Spain red yeah I think that's a point Sag and Tosu play in blue famously oh do they yeah I like blue but again what five goals in two seasons and also AC Milan not that red one goal in half a season but that's such an interesting thing because other players who didn't look right.

46:26Well I think Chelsea at that time they kept signing players like Shevchenko as well didn't look right in a Chelsea shirt. If you look at the numbers Torres ended his Chelsea Premier League career with a goal rate of 0.18 per game. Shevchenko 0.19. Mick Harford 0.32. Now I'm not saying Mick Harford is better than those two players but it does show how the former two both struggled. How bad was he at Chelsea? Because it felt like one of the most dramatic fall-offs in talent. Can I just say, I used to go to Chelsea quite a lot. I had friends who were Chelsea since then together. And I think there was something about the crowd just being so spoiled that they could just buy players for 50 million, take them from another rival team and diss them on the pitch.

47:06They would, I was there when they would boo Shevchenko. Shevchenko would be apologising to the crowd constantly because he had a bad touch. And it was just such a weird feeling to have them literally attacking their players and said, fine, get rid of him, bring us the next one. and it was this get rid of the manager bring us the next one and that was kind of the attitude I felt it wasn't that was not the attitude at Liverpool you know we wanted our players to succeed and we supported them Chelsea got that was their kind of like peak week and have anyone anything anytime we want he had five managers in his three and a half seasons at Stamford Bridge he so his debut came against Liverpool he didn't score his first goal until April of that season West Ham right?

47:47yeah against West Ham he followed that with an even bigger goal drought. He scored against Swansea City in September 2011 and didn't find the net again until a victory 4-2 against Aston Villa six months later. Good Lord. He scored four goals in his first 39 games in the Premier League for Chelsea. I mean, I've never spent£50 million on anything, but I'd want more than that, I think. Do you think the existing Chelsea players, because obviously he walked into the changing room with Anelka, Drogba, Kalou, did not pass to him? Because I don't know, I'm trying to sort of remember how they played and I looked at a few clips and he always seemed to be doing this thing on his own and there's like the rest of the team are there.

48:29You know, whenever they celebrate, he's always the guy on the outside. Even when they lift the, you know, Europa League in 2013, there's like four key players together holding and he's just standing there on the side going, yay. So he never really, I don't know whether he couldn't do this because psychologically he walked into a changing room that was automatically much more hostile. Liverpool were like, great to have you here. At Atletico, he didn't have to do it. At Chelsea, he walks into this club who can buy a£50 million player every single day of the week if they really wanted to and the fans to boot as well.

49:00So I just wonder whether psychologically, on top of his physical state, whether this was just something he just wasn't pretty built for. We all want love in the end. That's all it is. And if you're not loved, then you're not happy. The whole deal from the start just felt wrong, didn't everything? It just didn't feel like the right move for him. It felt like a stupid move for Chelsea. was a time when Chelsea were kind of transitioning from the sort of remnants of the Mourinho team to a slightly different team. I mean, I think it also didn't help that he moved there at the very sort of start of social media.

49:29So it was the kind of... His struggles at Chelsea were kind of like the first meme era of Premier League football. Well, there was that one in 2012 where between... Because Tim Howard scored for Everton. Between January and March 2012, you could tweet, Tim Howard scored more Premier League goals this year than Fernando Torres and get like you know 400 likes or whatever or hearts as it was in those days but yeah so he I think it just everything went right when he was at Liverpool pretty much and then everything went wrong when he was at Chelsea well I wouldn't say everything I mean he did score he did score that goal against Barcelona that took Chelsea through to the the Champions League final he also missed that chance at Old Trafford he also missed that chance he went the wrong way maybe that's the thing what happened there have you got a theory as of no no no I just think I'm really glad he gets that redemption to score that goal no matter what you say he has actually won the trophies and he has had the career that people just can dream about but he wasn't you know there was evidently he was not loved at that club they didn't like the manager Rafa there was lots of people the rivalry between Chelsea and Liverpool was big at the time I think we can't kind of forget that and the owner didn't care he just liked the look of a player I want that player bring me that player and everyone has to bring him the player whether they want him or not whether they want to play him or not whether he likes it or not.

50:47So I think that kind of residue of the core Chelsea team, I don't think they took to him. They didn't take to Rafa because they just will always associate him with the red lot. Under Rafa Benitez, the following season after the Champions League victory, Torres became the first player ever to score in seven different competitions within the same campaign. Remarkable. I didn't know that. But also that competition, the one time he has a competition that's his Europa League campaign under Rafa. Right. There you go. And he scores in the final as well, which is very much a striker's goal. He shrugs off two defenders, goes through and puts it away.

51:35And actually, just another point about the previous season, when they won the Champions League. He wins the corner, that leads to the Drogba header. Again, it's a much forgotten moment, but he's quite a good jink and run. he gets knocked over he wins the corner and then obviously Drogba gets the glory but it's him so yeah I mean in a way maybe he was present more than we give him credit for but you know one thing my big memory of you know commentators and just people talking about him it's like talking about a guy who is unwell the patient is unwell oh my god the patient is getting better oh he's unwell again actually he never got oh he's getting better oh no no and it's like all the time and it's I think it's almost such a humiliating thing to be on the end of that he just as a player as a great player just not very well.

52:17For Liverpool supporters of a certain generation, is Fernando Torres the great what if? What if he'd stayed? What if, maybe, what if he'd stayed and Suarez had arrived and the pair had linked up? I mean, I've never kind of thought about that because it's obviously, in the end, it's about the team. We had a great team. He was a part of this great team where we had great Spanish players. The other player I really loved was Alonso. And just having a coach who stood up to Ferguson. That was what you had. You know, he wasn't trying to be Ferguson's mate. He wasn't trying to be nice. He wanted to argue with Man United, which we liked.

52:53Then we had these great players and he was part of, we had a defence, we had a goalkeeper, we had a midfield, we had strikers, but we didn't quite get over the line. But the idea that, you know, in the end, it's not about the individual, is it? He was brilliant. And then they leave. I think, I do recall kind of, the kind of broken heart of him leaving was a big thing. It was painful that he left, even though we knew he wasn't quite the player that he was. It was really sad because we were so close. And then you just remember, players come and go. It's just you and the team. Whatever happens, you stick with the team.

53:27Managers come and go. Torres was a key one that I remember as a player that I really, really loved, who was fantastic for us, who's a part of this team that really worked when it worked. And then he left and he went to a great rival. That was painful.

54:00After the move to Chelsea 2014 he leaves that club has that brief loan spell at Milan as I mentioned one goal in half a season then and this is nice he gets his return to Atletico Madrid he's aged 30 45 ,000 fans attend his presentation January of 2015 at the Vicente Calderón the club in the meantime had gone on to become proper European powerhouse and he finally gets to win some silverware with them and beat Real Madrid with them he scores twice as they knock Real out of the Copa del Rey lost 16

54:43It's a goal! The Torres! Goal del Atlético de Madrid, and now, yes! When he scored, this is a fun fact, when he scored his first goal at Atletico Madrid, Jean-Francois Hernandez was among his teammates. When he scored his 100th goal for Atletico Madrid, Jean-Francois' son, Lucas Hernandez, was among his teammates. So there you go. What a narrative arc. And he also got an Anfield return too, didn't he? He went for that charity match between a Gerrard XI and a Carragher XI in 2015. And he said he was very concerned. Would it be lighters? Would it be agar elbows? But instead, he was serenaded with his song, Sasha.

55:29I think we all, I think, in a way, football fans do remember. But it's very nice when they just remember the good bits. And I think, again, maybe one of the reasons that he is not maybe viewed as negatively anymore, he left Liverpool and he wasn't great. He didn't go on to become a superstar somewhere else. In a way, it's interesting to contrast with Suárez, who leaves and has a just unbelievable time at Barcelona. And then he comes back to Anfield and he's booted and hated him and everything else. But again, even with Suárez, I don't feel that, maybe because he's not your local player. but I think is Suarez Hayes no he came back for 2019 because I think in the first Barcelona game he was a great focus for the crowd before the game was the time of the ball and it was great though and Koteinio everyone it was a great atmosphere but so he focused everyone at that time but I think with Torres it's because he said I won't celebrate if I score yes there was something that he exactly he said something and the people went you and of course it actually served a great purpose but back to Torres I think because his subsequent career he never reached those heights plus I think there was a lot of he keeps on trying to prove that he didn't do the wrong thing by Liverpool he keeps on coming back to the theme I was looking at something online, he did a Spanish documentary a few years ago where he still is saying the same thing and it's almost like he really, really, really really wants that redemption I think that it's part of him that he still is not sure about the decision I think that it also speaks to the fact that he was really touched by the relationship he had with the Liverpool fans There's a quote that he says about the fact that he had an incredible relationship with the Atletico fans, but that made total sense.

57:09He's one of them. He grew up an Atletico supporter himself. He says with Liverpool, there was no reason for the fans to make that connection with him. He was just another foreign player coming. And the affection that they showed him, I think that was a genuine regret of his that that had changed for some of them and at least for a time. but that when he left, what had been such an incredibly affecting thing for him had suddenly disappeared because of essentially part of a sporting career. Anyway, there you go. It's nice that he went back, nice that he's loved. His career ended with a couple of years at Sagantoso, as we mentioned, which is a strange move in many ways, except that the reason that he became a player, he says, have you ever heard of the Japanese anime Captain Tsubazu?

57:57Yes. Right, okay. Or, as it's known in Spain, Oliver y Benji. That I didn't know. Right. So, huge show, which is kind of credited with sparking the enormous popularity of football in Japan and everything that's brought about. But its popularity in Spain led to him going out at six years old and trying to be, I can't remember if he was Oliver or Benji, but he started out in goal, strangely enough, until he lost a couple of teeth, apparently, catching one in the face, and then decided that he'd play in a less dangerous position. And years later, squares the circle, if that's the expression, by going to play not terribly well in Japan.

58:39But there you go. Anyway, now he's unbelievably buff. I thought he got massive during lockdown. And I think he's a bit more normal looking at it. Because when he walked out of lockdown, he was like that. He was humongous. I think he slimmed down a little bit. He's got a chain of gyms, Nine Fitness it's called. And he's also, or rather more importantly, he is the manager of Atletico Madrid's B team. Which a lot of people think is the first step towards being the manager of another big club. Take your pick of which big club that might be. Hey, if that's what makes him happy, I just want him to be happy.

59:17Well, that's sweet. That's sweet. and I'm sure he is after all he's had an absolutely remarkable career even if it didn't quite do the things that some people thought it would he's won World Cups he's won the Hearts what didn't he win as if? I don't think he won the league championship anywhere but still an amazing career you can't have everything can you? World Cup, Europa League the Euros, more than once? twice Euros not bad winning gold against Barcelona scored against Man U at Man U played with Gerrard yeah not coached by Hodgson yeah wow magnificent we could dream of a career like that eh well there you go that was Fernando Torres and if you'd like a footballing favourite of yours team period player or otherwise do get in touch with us here at the Totally Football Show for now there's only one thing left to do and that's reveal the answers to those top Spanish scorers in the Premier League.

1:00:24Fernando Torres, we revealed at the start, is the highest scoring Spanish player ever in our league. Our league, yeah. But who are the other members of the top five or top six, if you can? Who wants to... What have we got so far? Diego Costa, you said. Costa's second, right? Costa is actually third. Who's the player in second? The thing is, there's not been that many Spanish strikers. There's been a lot of good Spanish midfielders and maybe their longevity. Is Fabregas in there? Fabregas is in there. Fabregas is in as number five, actually. No, Xavi Alonso cannot do that. Xavi Alonso is not. David Silva?

1:01:02David Silva is number two. Yes, of course. Duncan Alexander. So, we've got Fernando Torres in with a bullet at number one on 85 goals. David Silva with 59. Diogo Costa with 53. in fourth place anybody did you say Spanish midfielders oh did you oh come on oh I can't did you say Chelsea sorry oh Chelsea Chelsea and Manchester United Spanish midfielders Juan Mata of course with 52 goals only one behind Diego Costa in fifth place it's Cesc Fabregas I defy you to identify the sixth highest scoring player I'll tell you he's got 45 goals he's in La Liga now it's not Zisco we know that must be Aspas no well that's a great shout though great shout but no oh it's really annoying I don't have it I don't have it do I actually have it who did he play for here he played for Leicester he played for Newcastle oh yo you've done a you've done a Gary Neville there are you yes yes you knew listener didn't you excellent well there you go Merry Christmas one and all we've got loads of I'm not sure when you're going to be listening to this but we've got loads of stuff coming up pre and after the Yuletide period including further totally extras and a very special Noel Noel themed edition which we're going to be recording in a couple of days time Duncan yeah No idea what we're going to put in that.

1:02:43No doubt there'll be a festive 11. No doubt there'll be Boxing A 1963. Noel Whelan? Yeah, he'll be in there. There you go. Boom, content. Excellent. Sasha, thank you so much for that and for coming in today. Asif, lovely to see you again and to meet you, in fact. Nice to meet you and nice to be here again. Thanks for having me. Well, thank you so much to Mr Krapadia for suggesting Fernando Torres as our theme today. Duncan Alexander, thank you very much for being with us. And producer Lucy and producer Jesse too. And you, most of all, the listener, will be back with you soon. Hope you have a great time until then.

1:03:22You've been listening to The Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. For more great podcasts just like this one, including The Athletic FC and our dedicated club podcasts, search for The Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. We're also at The Totally Football Show on Insta and at The Totally Show on YouTube. The Totally Football Show is an Athletic Media Company production.

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