Totally Extra: Fulham 09-10, Roy Hodgson's European Dream

0:00The Athletic FC

0:30the cheese, a camera and big Fulham stars. It's all coming back to us now in this Totally Football Extra.

0:43Yeah, it's a new Totally Extra. Hello, listener. Thank you for joining us. On board today, we've got Duncan Alexander. Hello. Hello to you, Duncan. Charlie Eckleshire, remotely. Hello. It's a lovely warm background you've got there. Is that your kitchen or something? It is, yeah. I've been shunned into this room. Okay. But it's fine. Lovely. And who's this? A very special guest. Felix White, erstwhile possibly of the Maccabees. Correct. Good way of putting it. Nicely. Yeah, thank you. Erstwhile possibly of the Maccabees. I should say that more often about myself. Very much co-host of the Tailenders pod.

1:20Listen, that's where you know him from, perhaps as well. Yes. Also has a book out as of last month. I do, yeah. Is that your first? No, it actually isn't. I wrote Jimmy Anderson's book last year because he's of the tail enders as well. He's a cricket person, is he? Yeah. Oh, is that how little you know about cricket? Yeah. Jimmy Anderson's cricket. Yeah, he's messy. Is he? Yeah. Oh, is he messy? He'd be, yeah. Or he'd be Harry Kane. Oh, you mean like the player? Harry Kane. Yeah. Yeah. And he's also not very tidy. No, he's quite tidy. But he's sort of, you know, Harry Kane. Yeah. What's a good analogy?

1:51Anyone else know about cricket? Yeah, Kane's a good equivalent. Harry Kane's a good equivalent. He's that good at cricket. So you wrote a book with him? I wrote his autobiography last year. Oh, nice. Yeah, and I wrote a cricket book before that. So I've written, my life has taken some psychedelic U-turns since the Maccabees, and I've written a few sports books, yeah. Oh, yeah, teen indie pop star. Yeah? Yeah, and now writing, I mean, now I'm sort of 41, going to every round of the FA Cup, questioning what I'm doing with my life, but writing a book about it. Right. Which came first, going to every round of an FA Cup tournament or writing the book?

2:26I'll tell you what came first. I was on tour with my other band, and we were playing a festival. They're called the 86 TVs. Correct. Good knowledge, James. So we were playing a festival called Kendall Calling, and I went to, as you do, I had a few hours to kill. I went to see Penrith because I thought, oh, there's football nearby. I'm feeling a bit weird to go and see that. I couldn't get any transport after the game back to the festival and had an hour to do it. There's no Ubers in Penrith for anyone. Get out of there. that. For anyone that needs to know that. And I ended up asking, begging for a lift with the chairman of Penrith, because there were 200 people at the game, Billy Williams.

3:04And he drove me back to the festival to get on stage in time. And then I realised it was the extra preliminary round of a cut, Penrith Pickering. And this could be the start of an adventure. So the adventure starts there in Billy Williams' car. And it goes from there all the way to... Well, I'm not going to stop you there, Felix, because there's a book about it. I'm sure people know what happened as well. I'm not sure. I'm not sure if listeners were. Because also this show, you know, maybe listening, you'll be indulging in this in far away 2037 or something when you're not entirely sure what happened in the 24-25 FA Cup.

3:39But if books are still around in those days, you can just get it directly injected into your eyebrow, eyeball or whatever. Whatever will be, will be, colon, a matter of life and football, which chronicles Felix's journey to every round of that FA Cup and also, it says here, explores themes of belonging, ageing and loss through the lens of football. That's the blur of Felix. Yes. I've got to say, it was an amazing book. Beautifully Britain is what I read in the reviews on Amazon because I haven't actually had a chance to read it yet. But I'm really looking forward to it, which is the main thing.

4:16Yes, thank you very much. So I'm going to... Also, I mean, that's not what we're here to talk about, is it? Have you read it, Duncan? I haven't read it. Thank goodness. We're going to talk about Fulham. Has anyone here read it? Charlie, you read it? I haven't, I must confess. Sorry. Whatever will be will be, colon, Charlie. A matter of life. Get it injected into your eyebrow slash eyeball in 2037. Eyeballs probably. But who knows? You just don't know, do you? One constant among the psychedelic twists and turns of your life so far, Felix, is your love of Fulham. Why Fulham? Well, that's a good question.

4:50That's actually in the books. I'm glad you are. But I chose Fulham. I didn't have football handed down to me, and I was always jealous of that when I was about eight to ten. And for a couple of years in my life, and I almost didn't admit this in the book, but I felt like it's best to be honest about all things when you're writing a book. I supported Chelsea as an eight-year-old till ten. But I went to Craven Cottage when I was probably about ten years old because I wasn't going to Chelsea much. And when I look back on that moment, Fulham were bottom tier, the Mickey Adams team. What year would this have been?

5:211996 the year they got promoted right um so i look back on that time and well so that was that was probably what era are we going to talk about today so that's only that's 10 12 yeah it's only about 10 years it's not as crazy actually see how far fulham came because they had only been second bottom of a bottom tier when i started going but i genuinely think craven cottage communicated something to me about me but it said to me it was going to be able to hold my um disappointment hurt and loss in a way that Chelsea or other football teams couldn't. And it's proven to be the case with Fulham. OK.

5:56So I felt very connected to it from a very young age. I'm curious as to why some pop stars who visited Fulham in their lower league incarnations got a statue outside, but Felix didn't. Why wasn't there a misproportion? It probably would be a better PR move to get a statue of me, to be honest. That's how bad that looks now. I used to have people that would come to Fulham to see the statue not the game really? yeah they would come with me because I used to have a floating season ticket in the Hammersmith End so we'd had one spare and people would come and this speaks to some part of Fulham as a tourist experience just to see the statue are we naming his name?

6:35yeah what Michael Jackson that name I think we can say yes that name yeah not the former Everson coach Right The other one Maybe that's who the statue is of Because I'm not sure it was of Michael Jackson It was only there for what? Two seasons I think Before it was given back Yeah By Fulham's new owners And the strange thing about it Was he's doing a pose I mean you'll know what it is There's a very bizarre unveiling of it But Michael Jackson Of all the poses That he's famous for You could think of five Off the top of your head There's one But he looks almost like A Subutio footballer Which I think is an accident With both arms Which you've never seen him Right Do you think it was repurposed That statue?

7:11Yeah there were rumours that it was actually Bobby Zamora initially and then they decided that they didn't have enough likeness. He's a man who deserves perhaps a statue outside Croven Cottage for reasons that we'll be getting into in the course of today's show. There you go. Fulham. Just down the road from glamorous Chelsea. I feel they're a little bit like Chelsea's spinster aunt from the same family but living on somewhat restricted means. Yeah, I think that's how all teams that are in the shadow of another team feel. You could say the same about Everton or Tranmere, couldn't you? Yeah. Or many teams live in the show.

7:45Many. Yeah. Many teams. But not of Wiccan Wondrous. Do you have a quiz question for us today, Duncan? Yeah, well, we're going to be talking about Roy Hodgson. Oh, yeah. And so I was going to ask, six players played for more than one Premier League team under the beloved tactician. So I said, again, six players played for Roy Hodgson in more than one Premier League team. Okay, I've got the first answer. Right. Yeah, I've got one jumps out. I wonder if it's the same one, Felix. Koncheski? Oh, Koncheski. Okay, we're already there on the way, listener. But we'll do the answer. We'll do the big reveal at the end.

8:20Sorry, yeah. As a treat. Can I say my one? Go on, then. Zoltan Gera. Right, West Prom? Yeah. Okay. I'm not going to say mine. We're not going to reveal yet, but yeah. All right, four more to go. Koncheski's a good one. Controversial one at Liverpool. Oh, yeah. They didn't like him. He did. All right, Fulham. That's coming up. First, though, a quick dive into the Almanac.

8:44Listen, what's happened this week in football history? Well, November the 19th, 1969, Pelé scored in a game for Santos against Vasco de Gama. Supposedly it's his 1 ,000th goal, but no one really knows. Why does no one really know, Duncan? Because they started counting goals in sort of, you know, exhibition games is all a bit. I mean, Ronaldo is hurtling towards that number. and I imagine we'll quietly celebrate and not make a big fuss when he gets there. So, yeah. All right. Also on the 19th of this month, but somewhat later in 2019, well, the 19th, basically, it's a big time for Spurs managers because 2019 saw Jose Mourinho take over at Tottenham after Mauricio Pochettino was sacked just a few months after leading them to the Champions League final.

9:33In 1997, on the 19th of November, this. I'll show you my ticket here. This, I think and I hope it will be my ticket of the dream, of my dream. It's an underground ticket from London Heathrow. I took the underground to come here to Hartweite Lane. I want it to make the same way that Tottenham fans are going to do next Monday. Christian Gross there, arriving at Tottenham by tube and went back down them, I guess you could say, with the team. And he was sacked less than 10 months later. This has also been a big week for England over the years. 1993, it was this week that England conceded to San Marino inside nine seconds.

10:23No way. Yeah. It's formative. Put on your memory. Very much so. Now to England's task against tiny San Marino. They needed to win by seven goals, of course, and hope that Poland could do a job on Holland. England tonight, watched by John Motson. England in red, San Marino in blue. England needing to win by a seven-goal margin and hope that Poland can do them a favour in Poznan against Holland. I'm sure you're aware now of what's at stake. And Baczoki, number nine, picks the ball up straight away and San Marino launched the first attack. Oh, and a mistake by Stuart Pearce and San Marino had scored.

10:58I don't believe this. on their way, of course, England to not going to USA 94. And then in 2007, on their way to not going to Austria-Smith in 2008, England lost 3-2 at home to Croatia. And England are out of the European Championships unless Andorra score against Russia in the next three minutes. England players standing lying in disbelief Steve McLaren shepherded away Croatia celebrates what for them has to be seen as a memorable victory yeah the wally with the brolly well yeah home qualifier England have lost not lost one since wow in any competition that's crazy really what's so wrong with having a we were talking before we started recording about whether it's okay to have an app on before a game What's wrong with standing on the sideline with an umbrella?

11:55Similar questions. Bit girlfriend, isn't it? Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, because if he hadn't had the umbrella, then it would have looked worse. Was it the cup of coffee? I thought the cup of coffee was more egregious. Oh, did he have a coffee? He had like a Costa. Yeah, it was very sort of dad at his kids' football, or even rugby game at the weekend. Yeah, the vibe was all wrong. That's damning it, isn't it? Now you mention it, I can't see anything other than, you know the San Marino goal? and San Marino kick off and all the England players run towards a San Marino goal, don't they? They just assumed we're going to be attacking that end.

12:29I've just seen a flashback of it. And then Stuart Pearce gets robbed of the ball. Predigious memory. How old were you at the time, Felix? I was really young. Right. No, probably about nine. But it's one of those very early flashpoint footballing memories. I can never unsee that. No, seared into consciousness. All right. Let's get on to some happier memories next. This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC Podcast Network.

12:582010. 15 years ago, but it might as well be a lifetime, especially if you're Max Dowman. 2010, Justin Bieber's breakout hit Baby was in the air.

13:12And Waka Waka from Shakira. and a big ash cloud from Eafjafalafjökull, this time for the Iceland volcano. A volcano in south-central Iceland is continuing to erupt. Also blowing up in 2010, bottle flips and angry birds. Instagram was born while 33 Chilean miners spent 69 days trapped far underground, safe from hearing about Kate and William's engagement. 2010 was the year of Lady Gaga, sporting a piece of meat as an accessory. David Cameron doing similar with Nick Clegg. Nick and I wanted to put aside party differences and work together in the national interest. It was the year of Jose Mourinho's Inter doing the treble and in Hamburg of Fulham FC.

14:00Just two years on from avoiding relegation on goal difference, taking Atletico Madrid to extra time in the Europa League final. What a ride. You mentioned being down in the bottom tier. Yeah. But just this last bit when Roy comes in. I know. Mad. I know. Do you know what? And the first thing I want to say is I've brought in a few things just to excite you guys. And before I show you this, people do get overwhelmed when I show you this. I have got the only signed plectrum by Roy Hodgson in the universe. Can you see that there? I know it's a podcast. Right. So this isn't going to be great. No, no.

14:35It's a green plectrum. Can you see how clean these three are? You should hear our gasps. It's a gasp, orderly. What does it say on the other side? That just says Dunlop and there's some information about the plecture. Oh, right. He's written that very clearly. Do you know what? Because I do the Fulham Fix podcast and some players just scrawl their names. But Roy, and this is testament to the man, he spent a lot of time with his Sharpie in this and he very clearly spelt Roy Hodgson. And I think that tells you something about his brain in Fulham, doesn't it? Detail. With his picks. Detail with his picks, exactly.

15:10which is part of the managerial thing is that a pun musically? Pics? Is that what you call it? Yeah a pic Plectrum I didn't even notice you did that What were you going to say about Roy Hodgson? I love him and I've got his signed Plectrum and it was the most fantastic I mean as you said we were certainly relegated when he came to Pullen and two and a half years later we were in a Europa League final which is not a Europa League final as we know of them now it was a different type of Europa League final it was a Europa League final where... It was the first Europa League final. Yeah. Is that right?

15:42Yeah. I didn't even know that. Yeah. It was... But when they invented that tournament... The competition had been repurposed like a statue of Michael Jackson. Exactly. Is that a good analogy? And they were like the Champions League teams had all dropped down. Yes. So it was a very, very difficult tournament. I'm sure we'll get into that later. We'll get into it very, very shortly but it's worth starting with the Great Escape which begins Roy Hodgson's reign because that's a tale in itself. So Fulham had started the season with Laurie Sanchez in the dugout. And how was that working out for them?

16:14Well, he'd got the job, hadn't he? Because the previous season he'd kept Fulham up, but largely down to beating Liverpool, who had rested their entire team ahead of the Champions League. I know. And as a Wickham fan, I experienced both highs and lows of Laurie Sanchez. You know, obviously FA Cup's win-finals and great escapes of our own, but then it sort of fell apart towards the end. He's quite a good motivator, but his transfer record is not great. He's not ever really bought anyone well. And I think Fulham's business that summer, he basically just tried to buy half the Northern Irish. Yeah, David Healy, I remember, came.

16:49Yeah, David Healy came in. Chris Baird was another one, who then was good. He did. Yeah, he was part of that group. Nice. Casey Keller, another one. Casey, what a signing. So, yeah. Dima Tsi Camera was one that came in, and obviously he proved ultimately pivotal. Well, under Laurie Sanchez that season, the Cottagers have won just two of their first 17 matches, which led to Laurie being invited to do one. Ray Lewington had a game as caretaker in which they got spanked 5-1 at Spurs. And then Roy, who just left his post as Finland manager, took over. At that point, it almost didn't matter who was in charge because they were 19th and clearly doomed.

17:31But what did he do? What did Roy do different to Laurie? I think he's just a very more, much more experienced manager. So obviously managed internationally. He's managed in Serie A and taken the team to the World Cup in 94, Switzerland. And it was a level of kind of know-how that we'd not really glimpsed. He had that spell at Blackburn in the 90s when they were sort of post-title winning, but sort of on decline slightly. But yeah, he was one of those figures when I grew up of like, you know, this Englishman that managed abroad and obviously very influential. with a number of players, you know, managed players like Ronaldo and original Ronaldo.

18:09I think there were elements of, you all know better than me, Felix, but like elements of that Fulham squad that were good, were decent. They just needed some organisation and some sort of like togetherness. Yeah, yeah. Well, I think the interesting thing, it's easy to say it's in hindsight, but you know you have those moments in football where the right manager fits the exact right team at the exact moment when they fit each other. And I think even philosophically, the way Fulham thinks about itself, humble, fighting against the odds, better than individual things. Roy's team and Roy himself is very much like that.

18:40So as soon as he came, just his sort of general humility suited Fulham a lot. It wasn't like Sanchez was a bit more boisterous than that and things were going the other way. So that was immediately actually just a relief to have someone talking in a way that we would align ourselves to. And you're right about what we now know, that Roy does Cebucio 4-4-2 commitment throwing yourself in front of the ball teams know what you're going to do and you have runners but at that time we didn't so it was a bit of an epiphany but the team were just suddenly so committed to the cause but we didn't actually win for a while no no he did try to work a bit of a miracle in the transfer window by actually signing Yari Lippmann yeah Yari Lippmann once third place in the Ballon d 'Or running wow star of that Ajax team that won the Champions League against Milan in the mid-90s, but he never played for the Cottagers because his heart wasn't...

19:39Roy later said he's the most... What's that? His heart wasn't in it. No, sorry. He didn't get clearance medically. Roy later saying that Lippmann is the most unlucky fellow I've come across in football. He was also knocked out in training at Fulham when a clearance by goalkeeper struck him in the back of the head. Hodgson when I first went to the Finnish FA. He was standing next to his sporting director at Malmo, who opened a can of Coke and the top popped into Yari's eye. Anyway, sorry, back on the subject of taking Hodgson ages to get his first win, Charlie. Yeah, no, just a couple of things.

20:14I mean, just picking up what Duncan was saying. Hodgson, I mean, he'd managed only twice in England before. One was like a four-month spell, Bristol City, ages ago. And then, yes, we knew him a little bit from Blackburn, but he was a really unknown quantity. It wasn't like, you know, bringing in a kind of Sam Allardyce firefighter or someone like that, you know, years on that you think, OK, this is the guy. But yeah, it did take a while. They didn't win a game under him for a long, long time. I mean, they only won, I think it was six league games under him after he took over, which, you know, was enough.

20:44But it wasn't like he instantly turned things around. and he did also, I think, a key signing they made, more so than Yari Lippmann, and that was obviously, that attracted more headlines at the time, was Freddie Hangeland, who came in that January as well. And he became such a key figure. Oh, right. That was that January, was it? I heard it was the following year. Oh, was it, you know? No, no, no, it was 2008 and I'd read that as summer. Yeah, yeah. Of course, it was the January. Yeah, absolutely right, Charlie. Two months before, so for all your epiphany, you must have been losing hope a little bit that he was going to have an impact.

21:18It was Villa in February with a Jimmy Bullard free kick. And it's a great free kick. And Maloney, there's five or six of them. I think Jimmy Bullard's going to go to the goal with his right foot. He does so, and it's in! Oh, what a goal! What a goal with Jimmy Bullard! He's done it with the right foot. The free kick. Jimmy Bullard has given Fulham the lead. Four minutes to go. I'll tell you what, you couldn't make it up Do you want to sort of get an accurate vibe of that season for Fulham The Wikipedia summary of that season is hilarious Because the January entry just says A very bad start to the new year Saw Fulham defeated by close rivals Chelsea 2-1 at Craven Cottage And then for February and March there's nothing They just haven't felt We just decided not to record it Yeah, just like nothing happened And then April and May, much detail So February, there was the one win against Villa there was a second win for Hodgson against Everton in March but then we get to April and by the time that Fulham had lost 3-1 at home to Sunderland on the 5th of April again it really looked like the jig was up Felix, he was 6 points adrift only 5 games remaining but 3 of those were on the road and I think I'm right in saying that Fulham hadn't won away from home in 18 months They gave Derby County, that Derby County of this podcast their final point, their 11th point of their tour season yeah yeah wow that's nice of us but five games remaining you had to win how many of those three yeah at least it was we were we were done weren't we we're relegated so you won at reading and then again at man city yeah you're two nil down at half time and it's mathematically yes i wasn't actually at that game because um but there were a lot of fulham fans obviously in a way and that were and speak about that in a very emotional way and if you watch footage of that game when we do overturn the deficit there are people crying in the away end and that's a great game because it's Svengroll and Eriksson's city I think who are two new up and the way it's I remember watching this I was playing a gig in Liverpool and I think it must have been some sort of like equivalent of soccer Saturday some sort of like thing yeah it was a three o 'clock Saturday it was a three o 'clock Saturday so at half time all the other results are going against us and we are relegated.

23:37I mean, and there's a few of these in Roy's reign, these sort of spiritual moments where you dream something and it actually comes true. Kamara, we talked about, scores the vital goals. But the thing that I really remember about this game is, you know, when you're watching highlights of goals and there's so much emotion behind it, you're not even paying attention to the goal itself. And it was a little bit sparse in the away end as well, which tells you we were really struggling. but there are people really overwhelmed when that third goal goes in and even in that moment you felt like, oh, it's just, there's a feeling about that.

24:12You know what I mean? There's something like a sort of... Yeah, the commentator says they may still go down but they're going down fighting. Now Murphy. Cameron's made the run. He's in behind. It's a huge chance for Fulham. He's scored. Amazing. What a wonderful Fulham comeback. And they may still go down, but they're really going down fighting. There's a woman on the phone when they catch the crowd. She's on the phone. Yeah, because she's listening to, I think, maybe the other results. Yes, she's on the phone. Which kind of really dated it for me. Now, whatever you're doing, you'd be texting maybe or you'd be looking at some sort of app or something.

24:54Yeah, yeah, for the other schools. I like to think she was sort of her granddad or something. Just keeping her on the show. We simply don't know. She wasn't on Instagram because that wasn't launched until 2010. and of course Charlie. Well, that game as well, it's so interesting because Danny Murphy scores the equaliser but he misses his penalty or Joe Hart saves it and it goes straight back to him and he scores but he could have been rather than the man to, without wishing to jump ahead, save him from relegation, he could have been the man to effectively have relegated them if he'd missed that penalty and Fulham had gone down which they may well have done if they'd lost that 2-1.

25:24He would have gone down as missing the crucial kick. He gets lucky really because it comes straight back out to him and he was normally such a good penalty taker but it's a really weak one that Hart saves. But I mean, Cameron as well, he'd only been on six minutes when he scored the first goal. And Man City, from just, you know, watching some of the highlights and hearing what the commentators were saying, it sounded like there was no sense that Fulham were about to get back in the game. City were very comfortable at 2-0. Obviously, they get one. And like Felix says, this like wave of sort of momentum suddenly descends and it just feels somehow inevitable.

25:57And then that camera finish is amazing. You know, absolutely smashes it with his left foot. It's the roof of the net. Yeah. There's something about that, isn't there? Teams that have been resigned to relegation. I guess there's a sort of playoff analogy there, but often the teams that have finished, is that true anymore? Teams have finished six with momentum, more easy to go up type thing. But I think we were so at ease with the idea that we were getting relegated. All right. Do you know what I mean? But there was just a feeling of like anything. Of liberation. Liberation, exactly. And that Reading and those sort of teams are just a little bit stunned to suddenly be involved in it.

26:30So Bolton, Reading, Birmingham were the other teams involved in the scrap. Derby County very much already down. That final day, once again, Fulham are mathematically relegated with 15 minutes to go of Fulham's fixture away at Portsmouth. Reading were away to Derby and naturally were winning 4-0. Birmingham were beating Blackburn. Fulham goal are still at Portsmouth and a match you had to win. And then again, there's one of these late comebacks. And as Charlie hints, it is Danny Murphy after Kamara earns a free kick and Bullard sends the ball in. Danny Murphy, to keep you up on goal difference.

27:06Yeah, well, there's a couple of things to quickly say about that before the incident. Firstly, Fulham hadn't been relegated yet from the Premier League, so it wasn't like now where we've been down a couple of times and there's a bit of that yo-yo effect. Oh, you'd never been down. Since we'd come up with Tagana and then Coleman, we hadn't been down. So it was a whole generation of kids or people that that was going to be a very big deal too, a loss of self-identity. if Fulham were to be relegated. But the other really interesting thing about that, like Duncan was saying, is that Portsmouth, the same way Liverpool are sort of finding it in, Portsmouth have got a cup final.

27:41Right, yeah. Under Redknapp, I think it is, the next week. And so there's very much a feeling of they're not crunching winning tackles the same way we are. And if you re-watch the Danny Murphy header, not that I'm going to say anything more than this, weirdly, no one jumps with him. And the player closest to him is Fulham legend, Sean Davis. I'm not accusing Sean of anything. All I'm saying is in his subconscious, he might not have gone with Danny Murphy in the last 10 minutes with the goal that keeps Fulham up. I'm not complaining for really giving it their all. One goal for Fulham, turns it all around, and there it is!

28:23Danny Murphy! It could be a£35 million goal for Fulham. Barely any outwin emotion at all from Roy Hodgson. But inside, his heart is beating plenty. Rest assured of that, Danny Murphy. Well, few. Few, though, for Fulham. The following campaign, Roy makes more signings. Mark Schwartzer. Zoltan Guerra. Yeah. Bobby Zamora. What a team. Also, John Pencil. AJ, Andy Johnson from Everton. Dixon Etuhu from Sunderland. Names. Yeah. They certainly are. And names etched, you know, in the... Oh, such a great team. It's my favourite football team of all time. Is it? Yes, definitely. Okay. The result of that campaign was Fulham's best Premier League season ever.

29:17They finished seventh, which was enough to qualify them for Europe. What did Fulham fans think about being in Europe? Was it a bit of a jaunt? Was it maybe something that might disrupt your season? What were the expectations? Absolutely massive deal. The same way Palace would feel about being in Europe this year, like once in a transgenerational moment. You've got to remember, as I just said at the start of the show, that Fulham would have bottomed here when I started going. And this isn't that long since then. So there's so many things going on there. Firstly, a much older generation who never thought they'd see this moment.

29:52This thing is an incredibly emotional thing too. I'd actually, just as luck would have it, the manager of the McElbees and the radio plug were Fulham fans. So I ended up going on this European trip with them. And they thought, having supported Fulham with kids, that this period in time for Fulham was completely gone for decades. So for them to be going and seeing Fulham, even in the early rounds, there's Basel in the snow. Oh, yeah. We're away at Roma. even there's like really like iconic games of football because there was a sort of qualifying group even to get into the group and to begin with I guess it was I don't think there were designs that we're going to do well in this tournament but it wasn't like oh let's go and have a little bit of fun I think Roy was putting a proper team out Roy had galvanised this feeling that Fulham could punch against the odds and what we now know as classically a brilliant Roy team when he's at his best whereas at your Liverpool or your England where a team's expected, when he's got maybe personalities where they're expected to go and dominate games, he might have struggled a little bit.

30:54But when he's got, can just galvanise a spirit between a collection of people, I mean, there's no one better. No one better. When you think of that Fulham side, who do you think of, Charlie? Bobby Zamora. It's kind of the first name, the first player that comes to mind. And I'd forgotten that he'd had a really, so the season before, in that season where they did really win the league, he barely scored and got a lot of criticism. And nearly joined Hull that summer. And he talks about it. He said he went up there and met with Phil Brown. And obviously, because this was in that era, Jimmy Bullard, the aforementioned Jimmy Bullard, who's kind of synonymous with that Hull team.

31:29But Hull had just stayed up. They were about to have their second season in the Premier League. And he went up there and then thought, no, I really don't want to do this. And then spoke to Hodgson. Hodgson was like, well, that's great. I really want you to stay. And I think we can do something this season. And then once the goals came, he was so sort of selfless. He was so strong. And he scored some of the, you know, really famous goals, like against Juve in that run. So he, and I guess Hangarland and Simon Davis as well, who had been at Spurs. And I've spoken to once or twice. He's a lovely guy and like amazing, like his goal in the final.

32:04Such good. What's interesting about Bobby especially is that Bobby had been signed. You mentioned Andy Johnson and the initial idea of these things, the serendipity of how these things happen is that Bobby was going to play off AJ. AJ was the goal scoring centre forward and Bobby was going to come deep and get the ball in game so initially in that season where he didn't score his role wasn't really to be in front of goal he was sort of collecting the ball and when AJ gets injured for a long period of time Bobby's the only option so he becomes a sort of back to goal type centre forward but it turns out he's absolutely world class people bouncing off him as he holds the ball up and then we've got Zoltan Gera and Clint Dempsey who are sort of runners behind him He was going to be mine actually Clint Dempsey Oh, Clint.

32:45Yeah, I know. So talk about him. Clint is, you know what? The Clint story is so wild because Clint, I don't want to use the right term, but he came from the middle of America where he had very little money in his family. Do you know this story? Go on. So him and his sister were both very talented sports people, but parents didn't have enough money to send them both into sort of sporting educations. And they decided they were going to put the money on his sister, who was a great tennis player. and then she really tragically died as a teenager so the whole family impetus turned to driving Clint across America every day to football training so by the time he gets to England you've got this real outsider sort of like war-torn American footballer who's got so much anger in him almost from what's happened in his past but also he's very tight cast at that time And there's that period of time where we've got Bob Bradley coming to England and that's when people use Americanisms in the Premier League at being sort of scoffed at and frowned at.

33:48And he's never favoured in teams. And so it gives Clint this real outsider mentality that if you see any of the goals he scores, especially that Juve one, but loads. You know when you see someone, it's very telling how they respond when they score. Some people are calm, emotional. Clint would be very, he'd like explode. and you'd sort of see the history of his life in goals when he scored them. Well, you never know. Dempsey. Oh, what a goal! You certainly never know when you can produce a strike as dramatic as that. The American Dempsey has given Fulham real hope with five minutes remaining. Zoltan is another one who'd been a homeless child in Hungary and had a religious moment where he genuinely believes he turned to Christianity and God told him, go to football.

34:39And it turned out he was a really talented football player. Well, he gets the Europa League finals, Alton. Yeah, you must play with Clint Dempsey in the Europa League finals, Alton. And he answered the call. But he played really heavy football in Hungary and so his close control was unbelievable. So you have this collection of accidental personalities under Roy forming something that is genuinely moving. and yeah just to talk I mean Charlie referenced it there but I can still see having gone to lots of those European games away as well I can still see Clint's dink to make it 4-1 against Juventus I can see the axis of the ball spinning backwards I can see the processing of did he mean it I think it's going in I can feel that happening in real life and then the explosion after it yeah the most powerful thing I've ever seen in football it was a moment it was a moment anyone else you want to mention of that team because I think Mark Schwartzer maybe deserves a mention as well.

35:33Schwartzer had been in that Middlesbrough team as well. They had a similar kind of almost zanier run to what was then the UEFA Cup final in 2006. And then they'd been hammered by, I think it was Sevilla in the final. So he kind of had that experience of a similar kind of madcap against the odds run. Yeah, totally. Aaron Hughes, an unsung hero of that team. Dixon Tuhu, who Jimmy Bullard left us feeling like he was the guy but got us saved from relegation and Roy decided he didn't need him and didn't really need to replace him. So Dixon, too, was a much more subtle footballer, just did his job in the centre midfield, actually became a key part of that team.

36:11I'll definitely be forgetting people. Oh, Damien Duff. Damien Duff. Yeah. What a brilliant football team. Did you know Clint Dempsey was one of two Texas-born players in that Fulham squad? I was going to say Carlos Bocanegra, but he wouldn't have been in that team. Who was it? Brian McBride, was he still? I think he was still there, but it wasn't him. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Don't answer this. I need to get this. Texas? We'll take a break and we'll be back with you with the Fulham Cup run after this.

36:45This is the Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. The Athletic is the only place you can read articles by Daniel Taylor, Amy Lawrence, Phil Hay, James Pearce, Olly Kaye and the very best football writers around. All right, July 2009, and amid a pre-season which included a tour to Australia, Fulham were already in action in their nascent Europa League campaign. They were away in Lithuania, the first of what proved to be 19 games in that cup run, taking on Efki Vetra in the third qualifying round. Then there was a team called Amkaperm. Amkaperm! FC Amkaperm of Russia. Oh my God, I remember that.

37:27Apparently. You do? Yeah, well, yeah, of course, Amca Perm is famous. Amca Perm? Some people have got the half and half Amca Perm scarves. Do they really? Yeah, they have all games in that campaign. Wow. Wow. Kevin Keegan. Made a bad perm. Oh, I see, right, yeah. Nice, nice. And a Fulham, you know, right. By the way, the Texas-born, the second Texas-born member of the Fulham squad was... Please, I don't... Is he American? Is he not, is he born American, but we think... Born in America, but he's not American. Breda Hangeland. Wow. Oh, yeah. Great fact. Can I just drop in my Bobby Zamora thing here?

38:05He's one of only two players in Premier League history to have scored penalties with both his left and his right feet. No way. Yes. With Oberfemi Martin. That's a good fact. Did he score them for Fulham left and right forward? Do you not know that? I think one was for QPR, I think. Right. Yeah. Love Bobby. Anyway, Fulham that year, after negotiating Anka Perm and FK Vetra, got into a group, being Fulham, it was a group with the highest seeded teams possible. Yeah, yeah. So that's Roma. Couldn't have had a more difficult group than you did. That's Roma and Basel, right? Roma, Basel and Cesca Sofia, or Cesca Sofia, I should say.

38:41You get into that group. You also get out of it. You mentioned some of the results before, beating Roma at home. Actually, no, I think you drew. No, we... You drew. And we got robbed, actually, in Rome. I remember that. It was a penalty given, yeah. Thank you. I love it. Yeah. Right. Anyway, Fulham get out of the group. They then beat the holders, Shakhtar Donetsk. Yeah. That's a really famous one because all the players say that that Shakhtar team were the best team they'd ever seen. Yeah. So young Williams in that team, but loads of Brazilians and stuff. So you've got Fernandinho. Fernandinho.

39:14Wow. Yeah. Willian. Yeah. Willian. Yeah. Douglas Costa was in there. Luis Adriano. It's an unbelievable team. So do you remember that game? Yeah, I was at that game and all the Fulham players that speak about that said that is by far the hardest game of football they've played and by far the most talented footballers they've played against and they don't know how they got out of that. So Bobby scored an amazing goal actually. The first leg's at Craven Cottage and Fulham win 2-1 and Bobby Zamora with a stunning winner. And I think Schwartzer says that even so, Daniel Cerner, the Croatian fullback, was kind of laughing saying, see you in Ukraine.

39:53So you go to Donbass Arena. Would they have been at the Donbass Arena at that point? I don't know. We were on tour, so I don't remember. Danny Murphy gets sent off. And you still manage to produce a backs-to-the-wall performance and get a 1-1 draw and go through. Come on, Fulham. I mean, unbelievable, yeah, to do that. And it gets harder and harder from there as well somehow. Or on paper it does anyway. But yeah, like I say, famously, everyone says that that Shakhtar team was just on another level. Had they come from the Champions League? Had they been dropped down from the Champions League? Well, they'd won the UEFA Cup.

40:28Oh, they'd won it the last year. Okay, yes, they were holders. All right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Anyway, after knocking out the holders, you then face Juventus, who were probably one of the tournament favourites, featuring four of Italy's World Cup winning side from a few years before. You've got Cannavaro, Fabio Grosso, Camaronesi, who wasn't strictly Italian but still, and Alessandro Del Piero. and they also had one of the players Sorry I'm just laughing at Del Piero Del Piero Del Piero I suppose it's so good It's mad isn't it and also not only him but one of the forwards who they'd beaten in the final of the World Cup David Trezeguet and having beaten Fulham 3-1 in Turin and you feel at this point In front of only 11 ,000 fans Yeah Juve were having a Yeah It was the old Stadio de Alpi It wasn't that one I was actually at that game Oh did you go?

41:19Yeah and it was very telling that it wasn't full because it was such a big deal to us obviously and but the rest of empty which did did make it sort of feel like a slightly anticlimactic thing because in your head when you go there you think oh it's going to be full and you know like but um and then when you lost 3-1 that must have been even more but we left we left thinking we got a goal because you all you want is an away goal really don't you and just go to Juventus and not not for the tie necessarily but you just want to go to Juventus and celebrate something. So I think it's Hangerland score or something.

41:52I can't remember. Dix and Tuhu, I think. Dix and Tuhu, yeah, okay. So, I mean, again... They got an away goal two minutes into the return. So, yeah, so there we are at Chrome Cross. I went along to this game as well, yeah. Did you like this? And when David Trezeguet scores, two minutes in, Charlie, was it? That's now 4-1 on aggregate. So Fulham have to now score three times in the remaining 88 minutes. to only force extra time. And this is against Cannavaro Grosso et al. Yeah, it's one of those where you just switch off. I think, you know, there was 20 minutes of that, everyone thinking, oh, this is cooked.

42:26But then this strange thing happens in the game where Cannavaro suddenly, you know how you have those moments, and actually Casemiro's had a bit of a redemptive period, but you know that moment, like, fantastic footballers suddenly looks out of their depth, and it almost happens, like, in a moment on the pitch. Like Gary Neville at West Brom. Exactly, the famous Gary Neville thing. it happens Carragher talking about the football leave the elite football leaving you he talks about it in relation to Casemiro and yeah that was a bit this was Cannavaro's moment exactly it's like it almost feels like it happens to Cannavaro I'd never heard Cannavaro speak about it but Bobby Zamora he doesn't speak about it don't ask him he's like a grief about it I'm sure he's not but Bobby it was quite a big thing this in Italy it was a really yeah I mean here it's celebrated as a full and fairy tale but Juve were going through the first of many identity crises at the time and they had only recently come back from Serie B for naughtiness and this was seen as the just the ultimate humiliation not just of them but also the Italian game as a whole so Cannavaro, Zamora's already pulled one back Zamora's way too much for Cannavaro and Cannavaro gets sent off in the first half because he's just struggling with him but he puts him on his back a couple of times Zamora certainly stuck it's nice control as well Gira goes down free kick what about Cannavaro how much trouble is he in there's a red card coming Italy's world cup winning skipper is sent off Zamora has been such a handful too much of a handful for Cannavaro and that telepathy that I've just talked about before in that process of Roy where Bobby's holding the ball up and he's got these runners off of him.

44:14So I think Klink comes on a substitute, but you've got Zoltan, Damien Duff, this sort of thing. It just suddenly seems like overwhelming for Juventus. And I don't know if this is like a bit telling, but at Fulham, we so often have to put the away fans in the putt near behind the goal. And that gives them a lot of currency because they almost have the same access to the pitch and feels like numbers as the home fans. But for whatever reason, in the Europa League games, they were sectioned away in a tiny, what is now the Johnny Haynes in the wooden seats. So it felt like the Fulham fans enveloped the stadium much more than we would have done previously.

44:50And this chant starts going round at that period of time, Stand Up If You Still Believe. Give us the chant, please. Stand Up If You Still Believe. Oh, I thought you were going to get a little bit more. I don't. If I sang it with all my heart, you'd be standing up. Really? That's how passionately I could sing it. So the whole stadium starts singing Stand Up If You Still Believe and the place starts standing. And this mad thing where it just sort of infects what's going on in the pitch and it's 2-1 I think at half time isn't it so it's 2-1 and we need two more to go through and if you speak to Bobby now Bobby was saying he wanted this to go to injury time because he felt like he had more goals in him there was something happening where they just felt like we're just bullying them yeah they were panicking they were panicking yeah so I can't remember the sequence of goals that obviously so Zamora scored the first one Cannavara gets sent off Zoltan Guerra gets the second Yeah, it's a great flick from Bobby back over his head.

45:45Very nice. Then there's a handball penalty, which Guerra converts. Yeah. And then, eight minutes from time, substitute Clint Dempsey finds himself in possession of the ball out by the edge, really, of the... It was downtown. Downtown.

46:05There's an example of what I'm talking about. McClinton didn't like when he came to England. Sorry. and what resulted was one of the greatest moments in Fulham football history and probably up there in the pantheon of the sport Dempsey Dempsey will try and chip one wonderful, absolutely brilliant a sensational goal from Clint Dempsey may well have knocked Juventus out

46:38just one of the great full of moments few Felix like I said I can still see that exactly happening I think anyone there I mean it's a trope we talk about football being a religious thing and can get a bit annoying but that genuinely did feel like a meant to be religious moment where not only the two and a half years of Roy's reign were inside it But the history of Fulham Football Club, having in the early 90s gone out of, you know, nearly being formed of QPR, but almost going out of business, being bottom of the tier when I started going to watch Fulham. It felt like that whole history of Fulham was inside that ball, rotating backwards into the net.

47:20It was honestly a really beautiful, special moment. And I'll just quickly say that it's just triggered my memory. on the tube on the way home just as you were talking about it being humiliating for Juventus I just remembered this there were a bunch of Juventus fans on the tube and a dad and his son and they were all like sort of leather jacket think of a sort of classic Italian football fan like espresso type vibe one of them with a Juventus scarf walks over to the dad and his son and it's a bit like one of those moments you're like what's going to happen here and he takes his scarf off and puts it around the kids neck and goes for the winner.

47:56Oh, wow. Yeah, that really happened. So if the dad or son He then disposed of five SIM cards at the winner.

48:06Exactly. Well, I can't verify that. I actually haven't remembered that till this moment. Good Lord. If someone does remember that, the child that was given the scarf, you should write to Totally Football. You should do, shouldn't you? That child today is... Do you know what? I wouldn't be surprised. You know, a bit like Like the Yamal Messi photograph. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Wow. What a story. Yeah, that's real. I haven't actually thought about that. Stop the podcast there. That's beautiful. All right. Fulham didn't stop there. By now, there was no stopping them. Did you feel by this point, even though, as you say, they had teams coming in from the Champions League.

48:42Next up, you had to face the Bundesliga champions. Wolfsburg. But was there a feeling that maybe our name is how far can we take this? I think the way they were playing, they suddenly felt like and they felt like they were constantly getting in impossible situations and turning them around. Even away at Wolfsburg, I think we score in the first minute against Zolt and Bobby in combination there. So like you say, it felt like things were just happening now. You know what I mean? You're just on that, in that flomentum. I don't know if I remember. Flomentum? Flomentum. That's so nice. We were in that flomentum.

49:14Wow. As Roy said very often. Did he talk? Is that a Roy? He said we're in a flomentum now, boys. So he also, do you know what? He showed his time in Europe because he would only refer to the semi-final and final as final. I remember being really struck by that. Like, why is he saying we're in the semi-final? And I didn't know whether he was trying to, because he's from Croydon. So whether his time in Finland had, anyway. Maybe so. He was such a linguist. I mean, he'd use Latin phrases. He used sine qua non in a press conference. And I think everyone was like, you what, mate? But that was sort of, that was very much his vibe.

49:52What does that mean, Charlie? without which not the kind of key thing, the key ingredient. If only there was a way of saying that in English. But there you go. So yeah, Wolfsburg. I mean, who remembers that they were Bundesliga champions? But there they were. They had Dzeko up front with Graffice. It was a dangerous strike pairing. And the manager was Felix Magat, who would later turn up. It's Magat. It's that team. Yeah. That's another thing I haven't put together. Right. It's Magat managing that team. so that's probably because there's so many weird things that happen with this you know that classic thing of like oh he's good we'll have him because Petricks scores in the semi-final scores an absolute rocket I'm sure you'll get to it we're going to but we sign him like a year later or something it's that kind of thing so I've never asked anyone at Fulham was that did we get Magat in to firefight because we played Wolfsburg and heard of him through obviously the highlight of Magat's time at Fulham was tying cheese to Breda Hangelan Breda Hangelan Breda Hangelan Breda Hangelan cottage cheese.

50:51I once was on Norwegian TV with Breda Hangland and I asked him if that was true and he said yes it was. Right. And you know the reasons behind it. It was a special cheese to be fair, it wasn't just any oil of cheese, you couldn't get a pack of Kraft slices and slap them on. It was Cathedral City, wasn't it? Yeah, pre-grated. The Cathedral City but you know what he said to Breda Hangland, don't you? But he put the tape-less cheese to your injured knee and then phone your mum before you go to sleep and the love you feel for your mum and the cheese on the knee will heal the knee overnight. Did it work?

51:29I don't believe it did. I was once dehydrated in Africa and in the Sahara and they tied a potato to my temple. Genuine story. So maybe there's a whole body, vegetable body, cheese, dairies. Can I ask in kind of classic post-match interview fashion, what was the thinking? Not sure. Not sure. But No, but when they put the potato... They were very insistent that they put... Did you not say to them, but why a potato? I wasn't... I was quite... You were very dehydrated. Was it a new potato or a jacket potato? I'd say it was a... Where did they get a potato? It was like a sort of... Well, the Maris Piper, but sliced into the...

52:09So they sliced it? Yeah, it was quite a thick chunk there, and then pressed onto the temple. And presumably, what is it? Full of... Starch. Whit liquids? I don't know. Starch, maybe. Did you feel better, Duncan? I mean, eventually, but that was about two weeks later. So they took potatoes along in case, but not water. No, that was their main, that was the main issue. Yeah, lack of water in the Sahara. But potatoes, yeah. What were you doing there? I was on a trek, a walking trek. Right, as treks off an hour. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Maybe if I'd had cheese, I could have made some sort of, you know, gratin and everything would have been all right.

52:47Oh, interesting. I feel like the thing that might have worked there is that you were concentrating on the fact that you had a potato on your head and so maybe you didn't feel as thirsty for a bit Who should show up next at Craven Cottage but Hamburg is this the kind of forgotten game of this run? In a way it is, yeah because they weren't particularly eventful the first game, I was at the first game You went to the game in Hamburg? Yeah, and that was a 0-0 draw, I believe memory serves me right and that's a classic Roy performance How did you get there? Because I mentioned at the start the fact that there was the big Icelandic volcano and it shut down all air traffic.

53:25So Fulham had to drive. Danny Murphy tells of them being in a traffic jam and they all get out and have a kick around. A bit like the Italian job or something. They all get out in the middle of the motorway and have a kick around or something. So they're all in little minivans heading into Europe, I guess. How were you getting there? I hate to break it to the Fulham team, but I think we just flew there. If only they'd known that. of options. Guys, you checked the flights. I feel like we might run there. It did happen. So, for example, Barcelona took the coach to Milan to face Inter famously. At that same time?

53:59Yeah, at the same time. It got knocked out because of a poor performance in the first leg. And had they waited six or seven hours, the airports had been back open. But they'd already made their plans and set off. That makes sense chronologically because obviously the Europa League would have been on the Thursday. So you'd have probably flown on the day of the game, right? So the flights would have been back operation. Right, yeah, yeah. That would have been a risk, wouldn't it, flying out the day of the game? Yeah, for the players it would have been maverick. That would have been a curveball. Let's just see what happens.

54:28Right. So, despite the stiff legs, a nil-nil draw against Hamburg who were fighting for the right to play in their own final. The final was going to be Exactly right. held there. And then at the cottage, Yes. Fulham do a Fulham. They go behind again and that stunning early goal from Mladen Petric. Yeah, Petritch goal. But I again remember this because like so many of the ties, we were on tour again. So having gone away to the Hamburg game, I was then not able to make this game. But I did make sure stage time was after the game had finished. We were watching this round the corner to the venue. But the great backstory in this semi-final was that, like I just said about Clint, about that sort of underdog mentality, that anger, that aggression.

55:12he's been told because Bobby is not fully fit um he's been told that he's going to start the game and the day before Bobby Zamora decides actually I think I might be fit and they run him in and he just about passes it and Roy makes a decision that actually having told Clint he's playing up front Bobby's going to start and so the day of the game Clint is informed that he is actually not starting and Bobby's passed a late fitness test, Clint, in the cottage dressing room, punches a window and severely smashes and his tendons are showing, this kind of thing. He's shouted to the rest of the Fulham team, there's no way I'm worse than ten of y 'all and then punches the window, smashes the window.

56:01That could have been apparently very, very serious, but it was very serious, but it's still functioning on. So they bandage him up and then a not actually fully fit Bobby starts that game. But I suppose Clint operates the rest of that European campaign really taped up and actually quite hindered physically from this moment that happens. That's an extraordinary story, Felix. I know, yeah. One of many. Yeah. Wow. It's a crazy story. And that speaks to all their sort of backstories and, you know, like that productive tension you need to have in teams like this for things to happen. But again, in that semi-final, it's a late, I think it's Gera, isn't it?

56:41Well, the equaliser, first of all, is something quite beautiful from Simon Davis. Oh, yeah. And it's, had Bergkamp scored that, then it would be one that we'd be talking about always. It's magnificent. I can't remember who puts the ball. It's Danny Murphy, I would wager. puts the ball over the top for him. He controls it with his first touch, brings it round the defender with his second, I think still in the air, and then puts it away. It's just gorgeous. Murphy. Davis. Simon Davis. Yes! Lift off inside Craven Cottage. And then 76th minute Zoltan Guerra. Yeah. And you've got Peter Drury talking about a tidal wave on the Thames.

57:26Yeah, Peter Drury has his moment. In by Davis, beyond the hangar land. It's in! From Gera! How about that? Fantasy Fulham! There's a tidal wave on the Thames! Sultan Gera! Fulham, 15 minutes from the final! Old Father Thames. Yeah, never seen the like. Yeah. Hamburg will host the final. Fulham will play in it. That's nice. Some great lines. But as Zoltan Gere is running away, he puts both fingers up to the sky. Oh, yeah. So you have that sort of, that religious experience. Because he'd been told, I don't know if you know this, he'd been told by God to go and play football. Exactly correct. He said, it's what you must do.

58:17Yeah. He's like, build a new stand over there and put a swimmer pulling up. And maybe knock down that statue over there. By the way, earlier on you said you had a floating season ticket in the Hammersmith End. I wondered if that was some early, you know, given that it's right next to the Thames. What kind of a... You just let little board dinghies out. I don't know. A bit like AT &T Park in San Francisco where people follow the action from kayaks. £100 a game. Anyway, in amongst all of that, you've beaten Hamburg. Correct. And are into the final. and I imagine you turned up to this one. Of course I did, yeah.

58:55I mean, this was the biggest moment in everyone's lives. What was Hamburg like? Do you remember much about the Reaper Barn and stuff? Yeah, well, we'd obviously already been there, so it was quite weird going back. Yeah, like two, three weeks ago. Yeah, we'd already sort of had that moment and I mean, the thing that was firstly a relief to everyone, I think, is because Liverpool had Atletico Madrid in the semi-final and I think it's extra time or something that Atletico won it and I think it was a relief to us all that it wasn't Liverpool because it would have dampened that feeling of a real European final if we were going there with Liverpool.

59:25Especially you get beaten by Liverpool and you're being fine. It just feels a bit drab or something. So just the idea that we had a proper European final. Right. I mean, proper against Atletico Madrid. What a side. Yeah. I mean, the names that leap out, apart from David De Gea in goal. Aguero? Was it Aguero? No. Yeah, Aguero was there. Yeah, yeah. Diego Forlant, who was in incredible form. He'd obviously been in the Premier League with Man United. But that was, I think, the best season of his career. Later that summer, He wins the golden ball at the World Cup. And, of course, he has a bit of a role to play in this one.

59:57But, yeah, a proper team. Jose Antonio Reyes as well. Jose Antonio Reyes. What happened in that final then? 32 minutes in, Atletico take the lead. And Atletico were very much on top. Is that fair, Felix? Yeah, I think so, generally. And also in terms of the atmosphere as well, I remember feeling like, oh, they know how to do this sort of big. We never had whatever it was, 40 ,000 Fulham fans in one place before, really. so that feeling of like organised singing even I remember feeling a bit swamped by it They hadn't won a European title for a long time so they weren't quite the formidable Simeone they were a great team but I mean as a club they weren't the kind of streetwise European final regulars that they kind of are now And I think you can see that in the game they had 12 shots to Fulham's four in the first half 8 to 4 in the second and 7 to 3 in extra time so they dominated but they never looked like they believe that much.

1:00:52Particularly once Fulham you know obviously equalised with that excellent Davis goal and then took it all the way to extra time. So Simon Davis five minutes after Diego Fulham had opened the scoring with a gorgeous volley. What a moment. What a moment. In at the near post. Yeah it's a great goal. Amy and Darfur retrieve it. Baird. Davis! Fulham have got themselves level. The comeback kings of this season's competition. Have made it 1-1. Do you know that David Diddy Hamilton, who used to do Radio 1, he used to be the announcer at Fulham. So we both brought our respective announcers to those games at 1-1.

1:01:32And he was up a sort of crane, you know, like to do, like getting everyone pumped or whatever with the microphone. And he got stuck up there. They couldn't get him down. Seriously? So moments before kickoff, like we were just looking at a suspended David Diddy Hamilton in the air. Suspended? Suspended. Well, yeah, would that be the right term? Suspended? I don't know. was he hanging from the grave? He wasn't trying to get down hanging from it but he was liking one of those sort of big mechanical structures and they weren't it wasn't coming down and so that was that's probably my last memory of the game So that's where he saw the game from?

1:02:02No no they eventually got it down but it felt like he was going to have to watch it all from up there Probably quite a good spot to watch it from Excellent Yeah I would fancy it Eagle Yeah Roy get a bit deeper I'm seeing it from here Yeah Those two banks of four aren't flat enough Yeah, exactly. Flasser, deeper. Phyllis, was it cruel though that having equalised and you get into extra time and the minutes go by and you get to within four minutes of penalties? For the first time, maybe you're thinking we are actually going to win a European trophy. I think the thing that was cruel about it is that we are so clearly so tired and so spent in that score.

1:02:42Bobby only plays the first half, I think. The resources are really large. But the thing that really stands out in my memory is in extra time, Danny Murphy received a ball under no pressure whatsoever from anyone. And he just puts the ball out of play into touch just to buy them. And I remember thinking they are so tired that even in like the Maverick, the captain stringing together in the last 10 minutes of the Europa League final has to buy himself just 10 seconds under no pressure. So I think the cruelty was that we'd gone through all of that to get to there. And against also two years later, we're in the championship and Atletico are playing Real Madrid in the Champions League final that went to each other time.

1:03:27So that goes to tell you how different, you know what I mean, what the odds were. Even the winning goal from full-on takes a really sort of decisive deflection of Anglin. Both goals are deflected. Yeah, true. but if you see the picture of Swartzer diving as well for the winner, he's almost like screaming as his mind contemplates the ball game. Because then, I mean, I think Fulham bringing on Jonathan Greening with two minutes to go, which is probably not going to be helped. I remember watching it as a sort of, you know, neutral-ish thing I wanted Fulham to win. Horrible. I was convinced it was going to penalties and then, yeah.

1:04:08Tyler Seguero will chase this one down Aaron Hughes trying to keep him out still Aguero and he's worked it into Diego Forlan that surely will be the winner in this final four minutes of extra time to play it's Diego Forlan again it's all over in Hamburg Atletico have won their first major European title in 48 years. I think the hard thing about that is the reality of are we ever, you know, in my life, are we ever going to get back there? And I think that's what we had with Palace this year is that real feeling of like that is genuinely a once in a lifetime thing. Well, I think the big debate a few months ago was who are the biggest English club never to have won a major trophy and it was always Fulham or Palace and now Palace have done it.

1:04:59No, it's Fulham, yeah. So it's just Fulham. All right. Well, we'll talk a little bit more about what happened after that next.

1:05:11You're listening to the Totally Football Show with James Richardson. Now we do four times a week. Keep up to date with us on Insta and enjoy us in glorious Technicolor on YouTube at The Totally Show. What happened next after that night in Hamburg? Well, Roy Hodgson won Manager of the Year by what is popularly held to have been a record margin in the history of the LMA's award. Would you call him Fulham's best manager ever? Oh yeah, I don't think anyone would argue the greatest probably of all time. I think maybe some people might say to Garner in that team that he took up that we played liquid football, but I don't think anyone achieved more than Roy in any year of Fulham's history.

1:05:49Pulled off a great escape, greatest ever finish in the Premier League, got to within minutes of knocking out. I mean, can you better that? I don't think you really can in that period of time. Well, for his next trick, he went up to Anfield to take over Liverpool and was sacked by January of the following year. But then by February of the following year, he took the West Brom job, where he did so well that he shortly afterwards became England manager and et cetera and so on. More recently, he was Crystal Palace's manager, taking over a team without a point or a... Sorry, without a win or a goal in the Premier League and taking them to 11th, which just goes to show.

1:06:27The thing with Hodgson is that he's a very consistent manager and his win percentage as manager is the same at nearly all his clubs. No way. In the Premier League, at least, it's always around 33%, 34%. At Liverpool as well. Yeah, so at Liverpool, that's bad, right? And at Blackburn, when they were still seeing themselves... Good point, good point. But when he was at Fulham and Palace, that was pretty good. So it's like he's consistent. It's just the expectations of where he's working. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Mark Schwartzer went on to win back-to-back Premier League titles, technically first at Chelsea and then at Leicester.

1:07:00Zoltan Guerra fell out of favour with Fulham's next manager who was Mark Hughes Mark Hughes came in and we assumed that we were going to go through the gears a little bit because Mark Hughes' currency was quite stock was quite high at that time and it felt like for a moment we were going to but there was a big falling out with he said he wanted to be at a club with more ambition and left to join QPR so he did it didn't go down very well that I've got to be honest who's got more ambition now Mark Hughes yeah well that was the song oh was it F your ambition we're better than you that's what Fulham fans still sing at QPR right but so that's really stuck in the throat that one but then obviously Joel takes a job oh my word and then he sort of signs you know Berber's obviously amazing but it feels like he's signing players he sort of knows and has cushy relationships with and he's sort of I mean I don't want to say phoning it in but we drift and then we end up with the Wolfsburg manager Felix McGat asking the players to put cheese on their knee and we relegated.

1:07:59Yeah. I mean, it is an extraordinary story and maybe because it, I don't know why. Is it because it's Fulham that it doesn't, for example, it's not that far off what Leicester did to have that closer brush with relegation and then within not very long hit those kind of heights. I think the difference as well is that obviously we talked about Middlesbrough getting to the final as well a few years earlier and that was when the Premier League was obviously strong but not like it is now. You know, when West Ham when the Conference League or Spurs beat Man United in the Europa League final when both just phone in their league performances for three months and stuff.

1:08:33It's not, you know, if Forrest win the Europa League this year, it's not as big a surprise as it is Fulham getting there. It felt more of an adventure then and like a bit more romantic. Does it make Roy the best English manager in a Premier League? Is there a better English Premier League manager? Well, I mean, Duncan, one of your quiz questions on a recent episode was about the last English manager to come top three, and there aren't many, are there? I mean, Sir Bobby, Roy Evans, Ron Atkinson. Yeah, so I think it is. I think this two and a half bit years make Roy the most successful English Premier League manager, weirdly.

1:09:10Yeah. Doesn't it? Yeah. Or certainly one of the most memorable reigns in charge of a Premier League club, yeah. Yeah. Oh, good shout. Now, the question that we started off with today was which six Fulham players followed? Roy Hodgson to a subsequent club in his career So far we've had Felix, who did you say? Zoltan Gera Zoltan Gera, who was at West Brom with him Correct Okay And Charlie, who did you say? And I did Koncheski Who was at Liverpool with him And I've got another one, Duncan I think Chris Baird was at West Brom with him as well Chris Baird's a lovely shout It feels right I haven't got Chris Baird It felt good Computer says no Yeah, it did So two out of six so far I said I had one did Breda Hangerland go with him anywhere no go on give us some clues on the other four okay so there's another one that was at Liverpool with him but he was also at Crystal Palace with him a fullback oh oh oh yes I know the guy who is it the guy who recently retired from football I'm sure it is oh Joel Ward no no not Joel Ward no he played in like a Liverpool legends match and he revealed his retirement and he did an interview with James Pearce where he was like yeah I have officially retired because he had to play in this legends match he had to officially retire but what's his name yeah irrelevant backstories it'll come to me Duncan talk about the other ones it'll come to me this is probably the hardest one actually a goalkeeper who was with him at West Brom and then in his very overlooked spell as Watford manager in the Premier League oh my god Watford fans probably the only fan well and Liverpool fan base that don't remember him as much from him Okay, another one.

1:10:55Just give us the name. All right, Ben Foster, that is. Ben Foster. Podcasting's Ben Foster. Yeah. I've got the name, the person's come to me, Duncan. Yeah. Martin Kelly. Correct. Martin Kelly. We've got Kelly, Gera, Foster, Kuncheski. Yeah. Two more. We've got a winger who was very important in the seasons we've been talking about for Fulham, but also played with Hodgson very early in his English marriage. Damien Duff. Correct. Oh, Blackburn. You played him in Blackburn. Wow. That's a good one. And then the last one is a left-back who played for England, I believe, one game. And was with Roy at Fulham and West Brom.

1:11:34Played for it? Yeah, two England caps in 2007. And Fulham-West Brom. Yeah. Who's that? Oh. I was going to say Nicky Shorey. Correct. Nicky Shorey? Correct. Wow. Wow. OK. England's Nicky Shorey. who would have been relegated with Reading in that Fulham Great Escape season. It all comes together. Yeah, good knowledge. Well, that's lovely, Duncan. What a great question. And what great answers. That's the story of Roy's remarkable rise with Fulham back in a time that was not that long ago, but already seems so far away. Phyllis, thank you so much for coming in. Thank you. Was it too much to be in a plectrum?

1:12:21and I feel like as I bought it, I was excited. Are you leaving that with us, brah? Are you joking? It's the only one that exists. I'm getting this preserved, however you preserve. You should get it preserved, because the moment you'd bring it around a little box that you might keep a child's tooth in. Yeah, this box, I thought this is oxygenless as possible, so that the permanent marker ink will remain. You've thought that one through. Excellent. Best of luck with your book. Thank you so much. Whatever Will Be Will Be. Thank you. And I look forward to reading it and adding my review. yeah absolutely I look forward to reading that yeah thank you so much all of them every single one all musicians do they say they don't but they do it's been a real treat Duncan lovely to spend time with you again as well as you Charlie many thanks and listener glad you could be with us too because it would have been a bit strange otherwise like a tree falling in a forest we'll be back with more podcasts soon enough for now from all of us here it's goodbye

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