Totally Extra: Let's talk about Becks

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2:56The Athletic FC.

3:04Michael Cox: Totally extra, totally bextra. Yesterday, we're looking back at the career of DB7, Manchester, Madrid, Milan, MLS, and Metatarsals. We look back and ask who was Bex before he was Bram Beckham? Was he really as good at bending as he is now at vending? And how did he always come through with those big game moments? Let's talk about Bex in this Totally Extra.

3:38Michael Cox: Monday the 5th of October Woo! I'm excited Duncan Alexander's here and he's pumped Big time Big time Ian Irving's in the studio Hello again Hi Ian Been a while Dan from that Manchester Yes It's been Asia since we saw you I've not been on the Totally Show I was looking the other day for about six years I think wow it's probably a reason for that yeah statute of limitations and now yeah exactly all good reasons clearly no it's great to have you in and and with such a kind of first-hand part to play yes in today's show also joining us michael cox hello michael hi james michael's on the video link like charlie and charlie's angels on a big screen behind us very nice we're doing david beckham today why are we doing david beckham duncan well ostensibly because it's the anniversary with many things he's done.

4:28Michael Cox: Ah, yeah, true. Including the last-minute free kick against Greece, which happened 25 years ago. On the day that we are dropping this show. It was also because we've done a number of these extras and invariably there's a certain amount of research involved. And the thing that's come through to me most when looking at old footage is this one player putting in a staggering array of pinpoint precision passes downfield and it's David Beckham is not Pirlo although had he been born Nickley maybe it would have been he's is he underappreciated I think there's a massive cliche with these sort of individuals where they are talked about so much and they are rated so much despite being sort of supposedly underrated but there is one thing with David Beckham his football has been forgotten because of everything else and there is a lot of everything else to squeeze in with this particular individual but the football was really really good.

5:28Michael Cox: Michael was he better than we remember and did he also spend much of his career out of what what maybe should have been his position? I think he's a funny footballer I think he's probably overrated by people who who don't know that much about football because he's such a big name and I think he can be underappreciated by people who want to see silky classy creative players because in a sense he wasn't that player But yeah, he was hugely effective in a role that we don't see that much anymore, which is the wide midfielder that was a pure crosser. I think later in his career, he had to change his position a little bit.

6:04I don't think he adjusted particularly well when he had to, but certainly at his peak, that Ferguson-Manchester United team on the right of a 4-4-2, crossing the ball into two strikers, he was the best in the world at doing that.

6:15Michael Cox: Because there is this body of opinion that had he been playing in the middle, like he did, for example, the Champions League final in 1999, which turned out pretty well, that he could have unleashed a whole new aspect to his game, an ability to dictate beyond just dinking in those magnificent crossfield balls. Well, you say it went well, but they weren't very good in that game. They were awful in that game. Yeah. I mean, it took, famously, two late goals to turn it around. But I think Beckham tried many times to play. I mean, Sven tried to use him as his quarterback. I remember England, they lost away Northern Ireland.

6:50Michael Cox: Laurie Sanchez is Northern Ireland. and Beckham was playing a deep role in that. Yes, he could ping a ball a long way with a lot of accuracy, but it didn't really add much to a team. So this notion that had he been born in Spain or Italy, he would have grown up as a Davide Pirlo figure. I think to Michael's point, I've never seen anyone being able to cross the ball. I mean, Trent Alexander-Arnold's come close, but with the level of consistency and accuracy that Beckham, he perfected a very specific thing. and for four or five seasons it caused absolute chaos. He wanted to be a central midfielder.

7:24Coming through the ranks at Manchester United, his preferred position, if you'd asked him as a young lad, would have been in central midfield. But that class of 92 academy side had two central midfielders, not Paul Scholes, intriguingly. He was further forward. Nicky Bort and a guy called Simon Davis, who played a couple of games for Manchester United's first team but then had a career elsewhere, they kept Beckham from playing in central midfield. so he was pushed to the right hand side he replaced Keith Gillespie in that team in the build-up to sort of making their way through to the first team and basically shone from that moment and it wasn't his crossing or his his delivery that was heralded in the in the youth teams necessarily it was very very good and it did stand out but it was his engine it was he was the fittest player Sir Alex Ferguson said that that team had when he made it through to the first team even his his data even back then was completely off the charts.

8:17I imagine the bleak tests were all won by David Beckham, which of course were a huge thing back then. And that was the aspect actually that stood out about him.

8:26Michael Cox: Yeah. Well, the numbers, I think back that up right the way through his career, consistently ran more than anybody else. And the game that he ran the most in is the game that he ran, England-Greece. Yeah. We'll come over to that match very, very soon. Let's get a quick dip into the almanac before we go any further. This week in football history, what's it brought us through the years? Well, Duncan mentioned anniversaries. October 8th, David Beckham became the first England captain ever to be sent off. Here's Ibbotsburg. Oh, and Beckham's brought him down on the edge of the area. And this is going to be a red card for Beckham.

9:02Oh, goodness. It's all gone wrong now for England. He's already had a yellow and the referee, Medina of Spain, has gone to his pocket again. And are we going to see the England captain sent off? We are.

9:17Michael Cox: This was in a 1-0 win over Austria, which still meant qualification for the 2006 World Cup for England. October 9, 2004, David Beckham deliberately got booked. He'd suffered a broken rib against Wales with a collision with Ben Thatcher. He then got himself booked, so he'd be suspended for the next game against Azerbaijan. One of my most treasured anniversaries, that one. October the 6th 2001 as mentioned the day that we released this podcast is 25 years to the day from that little remembered match England against Greece at Old Trafford when David Beckham sent England to the World Cup with a free kick in the last minute of the game Ian you were there 93rd minute 93rd minute right behind the goal little 15 year old Ian was the only England game I've ever attended it was the first one I think played at Old Trafford during that spell that England had away from Wembley when it was being rebuilt and the only thing I really vividly remember about the day was the screech when the goal went in because it's a very different screech to the screeches that you normally hear at Old Trafford What do you normally hear?

10:30Michael Cox: What kind of screech would that be? There's more sort of depth to the screech normally it's more of a roar whereas that day was a screech because of the excitement What did that sound like? I wouldn't like to recreate the sound change. I'm not sure that I could. I'm trying to imagine what it sounds like in. Help me out. I could possibly encompass it. Let me explain, though. So it was full of schoolchildren. There was loads of young people there. So when that goal goes in, I vividly remember at the time thinking that it was like a League Cup screech, if you like. A lot louder, obviously. It's on a much grander scale.

10:58Right. But there was a very different type of person there that day than the normal games at Old Trafford. So I just remember the screech when the ball went in as opposed to the roar like you would normally have. Extraordinary. I was only 15. It's a long time ago.

11:13Michael Cox: Yeah, I know. It's the only thing I remember properly about it. Well, that's a disappointment because I was really hoping to ask you about that match. Anyway, everyone knows about that game and probably at least two more of David Beckham's iconic back catalogue. We'll circle back to the Greece game and all of that. First up, let's get underway with a montage.

11:35It's a great bad coffee lad, isn't it? That's a bit of glamour to it, isn't it? Beccombe takes control. There's left and right, he shoots. Oh, dear me! Yet another mighty goal for the boy with bullets in his boots.

11:54Michael Cox: Coming from one side or Beckham from the other. It's going to be Beckham. Oh, and it's another classic from young David Beckham. Wait a minute, he's taking another card out for Beckham, it's a red card for David Beckham. He's maturing all the time, he's got a marvelous stamina boy, a high, high skill level, and he has a great desire to do a top, top red. It's up and across, close to Beckham. Oh, beautiful! Absolutely beautiful for David Beckham. As a player on the line to try and stop Beckham, but it's not enough.

12:37Michael Cox: Sir David Robert Joseph Beckham, born in Whips Cross Hospital in Leightonstone, just like our very own Carl Anker. Did you know that? We did know that. We mentioned it the other day, actually, but yeah. Whips Cross, obviously, you know, et cetera. That's extraordinary, isn't it? It's nice, isn't it? Whips Cross. He was a Middlesex Juniors teammate of Adrian Clark, as Adrian revealed out of nowhere on Saturday night. The links go on, don't they? Yeah. Said he wasn't that special. I mean, he was all right, but he wasn't the kid everyone was talking about back then. I mean, Beckham says the same about Adrian Clarke, to be fair.

13:14Last time I heard him speak about Adrian, that's pretty much what he said, yeah.

13:18Michael Cox: Beckham was a academy, was it? A youth team player in the youth system at Spurs, where he was under 15 player of the year in 1990 but then on his 14th birthday signed for Manchester United, was part of the class of 92, had a brief loan spell at Preston North End in 94-95 where he was briefly a teammate of... David Moyes. And all in all over a career spanning 21 years, earned 115 England caps, won six Premier League titles, two FA Cups, a La Liga title, two MLS Cups, one Ligue 1 title, and yes, the Champions League crown. He's the first English player, the only English player, to win league titles in four countries.

14:04I think the only England player to have a film named after him,

14:07Michael Cox: and certainly the only three-line to have his effigy hung outside a pub in Croydon, for reasons. All in all, Estelle Carrigg, given what George Best said of him, he can't kick with his left foot, he can't head, he can't tackle, and he doesn't score many goals. Michael, when you say that people who don't know football overrate him, why is that? You think that they put him up with, say, the Messi's, etc., because of his notoriety? And where would you put him in the pantheon of the greats? Well, because he was such a big star. I mean, even at the World Cup this summer, I mean, what's that kind of 15 years after he's retired?

14:45And he was on all the adverts. He seemed to be advertising absolutely everything in the US. he you know had such a big public profile on the level of you know the the true greatest of all time in their respective sports but I don't think many people in in football would put him on that level um yeah like I say at what he was good at which was basically kicking the ball accurately over long distances he was as good as there's ever been and that applies to crossing to corners to scoring free kicks to long-run shots to cross field balls he was fantastic I don't think he actually had maybe the longevity at the real top level that you would expect considering you know the fact he was a fantastic player at one point I don't think the Real Madrid move worked out for him he went to the US and had an impact there but I think by that point as a kind of global you know one of the best players in the world he wasn't really in the conversation anymore So I think he's quite a difficult player to rate, but he was certainly up there with the best in the world at his peak at a time when the idea that you could be doing it for 50, 20 years at the top level, like in Messi or Ronaldo, was pretty uncommon.

15:57So to be a really top level player for three or four years, which I think he was, you know, in itself was a huge achievement.

16:05Michael Cox: I think the latter part of his career is almost like he's a cricketer at that point because it's like the club football didn't really matter anymore and it was all about England and it was all about he had a skill and a kind of pivotal role with England. So it didn't feel like a normal footballer's career by the end. Even with the spells at AC Milan and PSG where it was just, you know, played sort of a handful of games and picked up a trophy. but I would say it's very much a career of two halves. The mid to late 90s slash early 2000s of United, where I think he was a world-class player, and then the 2000s where he was, to Michael's point, just sort of global figurehead.

16:45Michael Cox: A brand. Yeah. A nascent brand. Well, can we say then that what he was good at, and you've listed the things there, Margot, he was the best in the world at for that skill set. Ian, you talk about other things that get forgotten. What would they be? What I talked about before, which was the engine that Beckham had. And I suppose in some ways the Greece game is not really representative of his wider career. The numbers on that in the Greece, just to give him his Premier League average. 2001, 2000-2001 season he ran an average distance in Premier League games of 14.1 kilometres what would a normal average be kind of around the 11 mark?

17:30Michael Cox: 11 to 12 11 to 12 that Greece game he ran 16.1 kilometres that was just to take the free kicks Michael wrote he took 8 free kicks during that game he was just going to fetch the ball and bring it back but I think he was like swashbuckling in that game in a way that I just don't remember David Beckham being like that very much for Manchester United. Unleashed. Yeah, I just think that he was someone who was a very, very good footballer, who was world-class in the aspects that we've already talked about. But I think he's actually someone who worked very hard for the team. Actually quite a humble, hard-working footballer below all the other stuff.

18:07And it is quite difficult to get through all the other stuff. But fundamentally, a very hard-working lad who dreamed of playing for Manchester United, who dreamed of playing for England, who worked his absolute socks off throughout the youth setup. You speak to anyone who was around it at the time, they'll say there was one player, again, that fabled player at the end of every single session who's out there practicing the technique and it's David Beckham, bag of balls, all that sort of stuff on the cliff. And I do think that that part of him, the humbleness, the hardworking nature, the engine that we talked about before is actually the bit with him that gets forgotten because you just see the glitz and the glamour of the goals and obviously his life away from the game.

18:46Michael Cox: It wasn't just the long-range passing either, was it? There is a range to his abilities in terms of finding teammates. Yeah, I mean, to a certain extent. I wouldn't say he was... He never played passes where you're like, I can't believe he spotted that or... He was fantastic at just dipping the ball wherever he wanted to dip it But it wasn't like, I wouldn't say he was a creative genius with what he did in general compared to some of the other great passers. I just think he had the accuracy and he had the range and he had the curl and the dip. So, yeah, I mean, I wouldn't say he was, I mean, to go back to what we briefly mentioned, I don't think he really had the top level football intelligence to play in the middle to a really high level.

19:31He sometimes did it for England, did it a couple of times for Manchester United. Real Madrid put him there basically because they had to put him somewhere and Figo was on the right wing. I don't think he was ever a world-class player as a central midfielder. And that's because I don't, I think it actually limited his range of passing. I mean, there was a famous Northern Ireland game when England lost 1-0 when he played as the deepest midfielder. And he was always trying to, he was almost trying to force diagonal balls, like the kind of Pirlo balls you mentioned earlier, James. But I think he was best actually when he limited his game, when he said, look, you're on the right, get crosses into the box to the two strikers.

20:04He was brilliant at that. but I think there were other elements of his game that he could compensate for his lack of positional discipline through his energy but I think that only takes you so far personally. I think he was a really good right-sided midfielder. As a central midfielder, I do think something was lacking. I kind of disagree with Michael on the point of him not being a creative genius because I think he was a creative genius but his genius was his accuracy. So he might not be able to deliver balls to places that you didn't see but he could definitely deliver balls to places that you could see in a way that couldn't be stopped and was able to do that in a way that other players couldn't and I think that ultimately is his creative genius maybe it's not that guile or that that vision to be able to see a a bird's eye picture of the pitch and pick someone out from an angle that you wouldn't expect but the angle that you absolutely expect he could do that and it couldn't be stopped and in some ways that is testament to just how accurate and just how much ability he had in delivering the ball from that area.

21:07You go through the treble season for Manchester United, there are so many moments throughout that year where he finds the run, he finds the head of the player. Often Dwight York diving, that was one thing that struck me when I look back at a lot of the highlights from that season. There are so many diving headed goals by Dwight York delivered by David Beckham Cross from the right hand side.

21:31Michael Cox: and Scholes with a peach of a pass finds David Beckham who sent it in immediately Dwight York's header sheer brilliant from Manchester United and variety to the crosses as well it's not just that classic whip there's looped crosses there's driven crosses there's lots of different types but I think with him too it's delivering at the big moment it's the big game element to him which that Greece match was a fantastic advert for. But throughout his Manchester United career, throughout that season in particular, when United needed something, he was the one off and he would deliver it. All right, let's get on to the 98-99 season next.

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24:46This is the Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. The Athletic is the only place you can read articles by Daniel Taylor, Amy Lawrence, Phil Hay, James Pearce, Oli Kaye and the very best football writers around. Ian, when you talk about the way that Beckham pushed himself

25:05Michael Cox: the way he drove himself to become the player that he became a lot of that speaks to his strength of character and that's something that was very, very evident in the events that followed the 1998 World Cup which saw, as is noted, David Beckham picking up a red card in the last 16 match with Argentina 10-man England subsequently exiting on penalties. A nation's worth of opprobrium whipped up by the tabloids. Headlines like 10 heroic lines, one stupid boy. And the Sun printing a dartboard with Beckham's face on it. That effigy which we mentioned earlier on. He was. Duncan, can you give us a window on how disliked David Beckham was post the World Cup 98?

25:52Michael Cox: Oh, it was ridiculous. He was like public enemy number one in a way that I think if you're a younger listener, you won't really grasp the way that the press could whip up hatred at that point. Obviously, they'd done it with managers in the past with Bobby Robson and Graham Taylor. But I mean, I think if an England player, I mean, you know, Gerald Kwanzaa got sent off in this World Cup. I don't think most people even remember that. Do you think there was an underlying kind of body of resentment against him that was then? I think the tabloid. So if you think, obviously, Beckham came to prominence in the 90s.

26:23Michael Cox: he was going out and later married to a Spice Girl. It was all part of the sort of lad culture, and, you know, it was the 1990s, and essentially, I think, his kind of, you know, wearing a sarong, and the tabloids clearly didn't rate this metrosexual with a great right foot, and they were kind of waiting for an opportunity, I think, to sort of steam in, and that red card gave it to them, and I think it's funny because at the time, the prevailing view was well Beckham is just unreliable he'll let everyone down Michael Owen is the sort of the golden boy but as it turned out not that Owen did anything wrong but Owen was not a very memorable character should we say whereas I think Beckham as Ian said at that strength of character he you know his best season was 98-99 which follows immediately on from that World Cup and a bit like after the 2006 World Cup when everyone was like well there's no way Rooney and Ronaldo will ever even speak to each other ever again and players just get on with it But club football is what matters to players, really.

27:23Michael Cox: That's their bread and butter. And Beckham just hit the ground running at the start of 1998-99 and never stopped. Manchester United were great at this point as well, because you've not just got Beckham in 1998. You've got Phil Neville, who gave away the penalty, I think, against Romania at Euro 2000, who became a bit of a villain. You then had Roy Keane with Saipan, with the Republic of Ireland. You've mentioned Cristiano Ronaldo and Wayne Rooney. United were just fantastic at this point of welcoming them back in and just saying, forget international football. Well, Ferguson had done his best to tell them all to forget international football anyway.

27:54And it kind of underlined what he'd told everyone. You know, they don't love you, we do. So don't worry about putting yourself out for them. Look how you get treated. Come back here.

28:02Michael Cox: So Laurie was with us, Laurie Whitwell was with us over the summer in Los Angeles. And he was making the point that for Man United fans, England is not that much of a thing. That there is that sense of, no, we don't support England, we support Manchester United. Yeah, part of that's a northern thing as well, isn't it? feeling a bit detached from the capital and everything else because I suppose the other aspect is growing up as a Manchester United fan, which people have probably noticed that I am by now, United could take you to places that England just couldn't. So why would you invest a load of time in a team that was not doing very well when you got a team that you were following every week that was doing fantastically well and moreover, who had people like David Beckham, Phil Neville, Wayne Rooney, etc.

28:48who were treated like this?

28:49Michael Cox: Would Beckham's problems in 1998 with England have endeared him still further thus to the United faithful? Yeah, I think they revelled in welcoming him back. I think as well that the faithful would take the tone from the team and the manager, and the manager was unequivocal in his support for Beckham. He thought that the treatment of him was a disgrace. He said as much. You hear key members of that dressing room talk about welcoming Beckham back as well. Roy Keane would sort of say, you know, you go after him, you go after all of us. as that collective and that's an extremely strong Manchester United dressing room, a successful one as well.

29:22So the ability to be able to just absorb him back in and I think Beckham's approach to it all, I mean, what he had to go through, we've talked about his effigy being hung outside a pub in Croydon but threats against his family, tabloid papers and photographers being even outside his grandparents' house. He was being spat at in the street in London at the time. so the strength of character to be able to come through all that and produce what probably you know probably is his best ever season he was second in the Ballon d 'Or vote that year 1999 lost out to Rivaldo people would would argue you could easily argue that he should have won the Ballon d 'Or that year which underlines you know the quality of him but to be able to do that after that summer I don't think to this day anyone's had that treatment I can't remember even anything that compares you know there's been people like Harry Maguire in recent years who've been through the mill and had death threats and all sorts of stuff but that sort of raw anger like you mentioned before i don't think anyone else has been through that no it was it was unbelievable

30:24Michael Cox: and i remember the opening day of of 98 99 leicester were tuning up at old trafford and the whole country i mean now people talk about like hate watching you know like all that stuff but it was a i remember listening to on the radio it was like a hate listen not for me obviously because i'm a considered man but everyone was like yeah united losing beckham are and then he pops up and makes it 2-2 in the last minute with a typically amazing free kick and that was almost like him saying I'm fine don't worry about it he was he was twice runner-up in the certainly the world player of the year awards are in that period what what was so good about him Michael what was what were the best moments for example of that treble season as United swept to FA Cup Premier League and then Champions League?

31:09Maybe the goal against Arsenal in the semi-final at Villa Park. Here's Sheringham. Beckham. What a goal! Well, it was going to take something to make a breakthrough here. And David Beckham has provided it. Fantastic goal for Manchester United. Well, he hasn't scored many from free play recently. But what a magnificent strike this is. Teddy Sherry, I'm going to do all the work there. He just didn't panic. Tumped it back to Beckham. I think he fools David Seaman, Matt. I think Seaman thinks this is going to the goalkeeper's left, but he just bends it across the face of him. I mean, one of the best FA Cup matches you'll ever see.

31:54The United 1-2-1 with the goal from Giggs, obviously, got the attention, but Beckham's goal was great as well. Also a really important goal against Tottenham on the final day. And the scores gets it. Sherwood says he was fouled. The referee doesn't agree. Giggs, Scholes, Beckham. It's in!

32:16Well, Tottenham don't like it, but Manchester United love it. Well, it's a Beckham special. Sherwood's furious. He's after the referee. He wants to know why a free kick wasn't given. For me, he was the best player in that 99 team. Over the course of that season, Giggs had a lot of injury problems. games um Scholes was often left out of the biggest games Keane had a big impact of course the strikers were good but they rotated quite a lot so it was almost like they were job sharing but Beckham was yeah undroppable and really consistent that stream of deliveries from the right flank he was uh he was brilliant there's a game against Inter in particular that United win at Old Trafford uh where he just plays two identical crosses for Dwight York very rare you'll see two such similar goals in one game um so yeah he was he was on that level he was one of the best players in the world i don't think he was as good as rivaldo that year rivaldo was phenomenal i think actually a massively underrated player one of the best players i've ever seen but beckham was up there and yeah deservedly amongst the you know considered amongst the best players in the world

33:21Michael Cox: at that period was diogo simeone in that inter side that faced yeah yeah won a penalty he was didn't they do a big hand show did they refuse to shake hands or something no they shook hands but there's a kind of gallery of United players glaring at Tim as he approaches that Champions League campaign going through that really and looking again I've been through it just to remind myself of exactly what he did and it's an incredible Champions League campaign in terms of the opposition that Manchester United faced, Bromby aside maybe sorry to fans of Bromby But Barcelona and Bayern in the group stage, obviously Bayern did go on to face in the final, Inter and Juventus, literally the best teams in Europe, the truest sense of the Champions League in terms of the top, top level opposition.

34:10And Beckham's fingerprints are all over that campaign, obviously culminating in the final, where his two corners lead to the two goals in stoppage time. But even going back to the first game of that, it's a 3-0 draw at Old Trafford. The first goal is assisted by Beckham for gigs. The second goal is a ball in, which leads to Scholes' goal. The third goal is a free kick from David Beckham. Two-all draw away at Bayern. He gets assists for Dwight York. His fingerprints are all over the Bromby win at home. The inter-quarter final that we've mentioned before. Even the captain's goal, Roy Keane, to get them back in the game, 2-0 down away at Juve in the second leg of the semi-final, is from a Beckham corner.

34:51You've mentioned the FA Cup goal against Arsenal and the one on the final day in the Premier League, the goal straight away against Leicester, that's got to be the most important moment in some ways of Beckham's Manchester United career, to be able to come back and do that after everything that had gone on in the summer and just try and show people straight away that you're OK and you're still at it.

35:12Michael Cox: It tells the world to stand right on the edge of the area. It has to be a Beckham special. Can he dip it? Drops it in. Yes, he has! Beckham's back! Looking for Hayton.

35:26I understand Michael's argument. I didn't watch Rivaldo throughout the 1999 season. I wasn't old enough to be able to even assess, I don't think, his quality. But I'd certainly watch Beckham be as good as anyone I've seen that season. And, you know, one of the most famous seasons for any team in English football. It's this their moment. Beckham into Sheringham. And Schultz has won it!

36:01Manchester United have reached the promised land.

36:05Michael Cox: Indeed. His numbers for United in the Premier League, but bear mentioning 394 games, 121 assists, 85 goals. That's 206 goal involvements in less than 400. That's more than delivering a goal involvement every other game, basically. Yeah, and he got into double figures for assists for four seasons in a row in the Premier League, which I think only Christian Eriksen has done since. I mean, De Bruyne has obviously got great numbers, but often chuck in a bit of a poor or injured season. So, yeah, his consistency as well. And, like, opposition teams knew what he was going to do as well. It wasn't like he was inventing new stuff each week, but he was just, you know, that technique was so good.

36:50Michael Cox: All right. The final then against Bayern Munich in Barcelona. And this is one of the occasions when Beckham is playing in the middle because both Keane and Scholes are absent. Yeah. Michael, that was one of the games that you say he was there. United weren't playing well. It wasn't really his position. No, I mean, they were completely out of play. I mean, Bayern were 1-0 up quite early, hit the woodwork twice. The whole thing about Manchester United is that they used to get results in situations where you couldn't imagine how they could get a result. the semi-final against Arsenal was the same thing they were down to 10 men Burkamp missed a penalty the whole thing with Manchester United was they would just constantly score and you know there's a line from Clive Tilsley in that game you know something like can United score they always score because that's what it felt like it didn't feel like this is a well I mean it was obviously a completely remarkable situation to win that game but it also felt in keeping with what Manchester United were all about and I think that vibe has slightly been lost over the years and we've been subjected to this idea that manchester had constantly played great football week in week out throughout the 90s and early 2000s and that's why they won trophies they didn't they won trophies because they often won when playing badly and that's almost where the cliche you know they epitomize that cliche and this was the absolute epitome of it and beckham uh you know he has a he has the impact from delivering the corners which kind of indirectly well one of them more directly leads to the goals but he he's better after he's moved to the flank.

38:17I mean, him playing in midfield doesn't really work out. They make a couple of substitutions, he moves out wide, and then he has a big influence on the game. So, yeah, I mean, like a lot of the English Champions League successes over the years, Liverpool in 2005, Chelsea in 2012, English sides do tend to get completely outplayed in European Cup finals, but somehow find a way to win. Yeah, Ferguson's admitted it didn't work, starting back in the centre midfield. If you played the game again, I think he said it was started Ronnie Onsen in the centre of midfield, kept Beckham on the right, played Ryan Giggs on the left.

38:48It was Jesper Blomquist who played on the left. Giggs is on the right, Beckham's in the middle. So you've got like, you know, a backup left winger playing left wing, your first choice left winger playing right wing and your right winger playing in centre midfield. So it was a bit of a patchwork quilt of a set-up for United. And Michael's right. I think it was at half-time they switched those combinations around and got Beckham to the right-hand side. Then when Teddy Sheringham comes on as well, that then allowed the shape to be a little bit more natural. I just think with Beckham, maybe that year is the only year where he's United's best standout player.

39:25And you could easily make arguments that it's Dwight York because of the goals that he scored, despite the fact he was job sharing with the other strikers. But it's funny how the things that really stand out about him are moments that are not really necessarily fully representative of the rest of his career in terms of, you know, like I've gone back to before, this sort of one-man hero team thing is not really his forte across his time. This season is his standout season for United generally, but he's more a player who elevates others, really. You know, I think Gary Lineker was saying if there was one player he'd want to play with from the past, it would be David Beckham because he's a striker's dream.

40:02Michael Cox: Yeah. And for someone like him, who's just all about being in the right place and finishing, he'd trust Beckham more than anyone else just to keep finding them. This is going to sound trite at first, but trust me, this is important. I would say 98-99 is the last season of version one of David Beckham, and that was him reaching his peak as that sort of floppy-haired, creative, just right-winger that was just unplayable, essentially. I think, and this is going to sound silly, but it was a seismic moment. The following season, before they played Lester, he shaved his head. I think that was... Adidas had put out a big publicity campaign with his hair.

40:40Michael Cox: Which we've seen with a few companies with Haaland this year. So it can happen. But I do think that was a shift from Beckham, the team player, to almost like Beckham, the brand. And I think that is not... Clearly it wasn't... I mean, Ferguson did get annoyed, right? Because he came to training in a hack so he didn't want the press to see that he'd had his hair cut and stuff. So I feel like that was the start of the Ferguson-Beckham relationship slowly starting to fray. And weirdly, on a statistical level, all of Beckham's headed goals in the Premier League came before he shaved his head. No way.

41:11Michael Cox: Which no one has ever been able to explain. Surely it's easy to head the ball with no hair. I don't know. Does it not give you greater precision? Maybe. Less between the heading instrument and the headed object. I don't know. Let's get on to post-bang removal Beckham next.

41:34Michael Cox: After the 99 title, do United win the next two Premier League? Yeah. Yes. Madness. Remember that? Yeah. Relentless. By miles as well and by season. Wow. Yeah, the following season was a farce from memory. It just became mundane to go and watch them win every week. Even if they conceded, you'd just say, oh, they'll win 2-1 now, 3-1 now. Those days are gone. Meanwhile, with England, their campaign to reach the 2002 World Cup had seen them taking a colossal and recently featured in Totally Extra victory away in Munich against Germany, 5-1. But despite that, they came to that Greece game needing to better Germany's result in their match.

42:21Michael Cox: Greece weren't seen as being up to much. Ian, you went along as a 15-year-old and it didn't work out the way England fans were expecting. to begin with? No, very much after the Lord Mayor's show, the Mutt Kart. And I know it was saved in the end, but even so, a draw against a pretty average Greek team, which actually would go on to be a very good Greek team. Win the Euros. Not going after, yeah. They're managed by Otto Rehagel, who's perhaps looking to do a favour for his nation, Germany. Greece twice take the lead. And what is it that Beckham does in this game that everyone says, he basically runs this match?

43:01Everything, essentially. He takes, it feels like, well, Michael wrote it, eight free kicks, which must be a record in his career. I can't imagine. This is eight free kicks shooting at goal, including one very early on in the game, which I think Michael wrote was something like 40 yards out and was cleared by someone's foot, which probably gives you an impression of quite how far out it was. But it just felt like he was on a one-man mission to ensure that there was no way that England were not taking full advantage of the opportunity that that incredible 5-1 win had afforded them effectively. Because I think it wasn't until the very latter stages of the game where the players begin to ask what's happening in the Germany game.

43:42And there's a note passed from the bench. I think it was Steve McLaren, who was assistant at the time, tells Beckham. So the story goes that the German score with Finland is nil-nil. And so he then asked Gary Neville, being Beckham, he needs clarification from one of his teammates. Does that mean if we draw, we go through? Yes, it does, David. Right, go and do your thing. And the one thing, looking back at the game, it is so much about him because he's not a right winger anymore. He's literally all over the pitch and there's an indiscipline maybe to it all. You could probably ask the question, would England have been better if he just played where he should have done?

44:20But there's a lack of leaders as well, weirdly. When you look at the sort of, the lineup around that time, And there's been England teams and England dressing rooms that have been full of domestic team captains and true leaders of men in all the sense of that. Whereas in that particular team, there isn't really. And he's maybe at this stage, there's Gerrard who will come later, obviously, as a great leader. Not maybe reach those heights just yet, but it is very much him. He steps up, he ensures that there's an energy to the performance. And obviously with the set pieces, there's a threat to the performance right to the death.

44:54Everybody, part of the Greek support, is playing for a goal. Beckham's a take. The 93rd minute at Old Trafford. Beckham! Yes! He's dead! He's dead! Beckham! They've done! It's 2-2! And he may still be going to the World Cup automatically. It's a fantastic ending to a very, very poor performance. and he is a lucky manager and he deserves the goal because Beckham has virtually played Greece on his own.

45:32Michael Cox: Mikey, you've described it as the most iconic individual display by a footballer in an England shirt. Yeah, probably because it's capped with a moment at the end. And like Ian says, he does a bit of everything. I think to understand a free kick, you've got to go back to the reverse game. So I think that's Ray Hargill's first game as manager of Greece. and Beckham scores a free kick that really surprises Nikopolidis, the goalkeeper. Usually Beckham, the classic Beckham free kick, he goes to the goalkeeper's right. So you think of the Columbia free kick in 98, for example, that was the side he usually goes.

46:02But against Greece in Athens, he goes the other way, he goes around the wall, he goes almost inside the near post. So Nikopolidis is kind of, he's a bit spooked from that. And then you've got this run of eight. So the first one's blocked. The second one's his classic free kick and it's saved to Nikopolidis' right. Then he has one over the bar. Then he has another one, his classic free kick, which is saved again. Then he has another one over the bar. And then he gets the sixth one. And now that's a similar position to the Athens one. So he tries to replicate the Athens one. So he kind of goes around the wall.

46:35And there's actually a big cheer because it hits the side netting and everyone thinks it's a goal. They think he scored exactly the same one he did in Athens. But it's actually into the side netting. It's just wide. There's a seventh one where he tries that free kick again, the Athens one. that flicks the wall and goes wide for a corner. So when it comes to the eighth one, Nick Opelidis knows he's been beaten inside the near post or inside his left-hand post in Athens. Beckham has tried the last two inside that corner as well. And so if you look at the free kick, I mean, it's a great free kick, but I don't think it should be, you know, Nick Opelidis is completely rooted to his line.

47:10It's not an unsavable free kick if he actually goes the right way, but he's been so spooked by what happened three months beforehand or four months beforehand and by the fact that Beckham started to try that one again, that he takes a bit of a step to the wrong direction. And that's what means that as long as it's on target and on that side, it goes in. But yeah, to take eight free kicks, eight attempts at goal from free kicks is incredible. I think if you look at the statistics, you actually get less than one or about one direct free kick attempt in any Premier League game. It actually doesn't happen as much as you think.

47:45But he had eight that day and it took all eight for him to put one in the top corner. That step in the wrong direction is so common in the free kick scored by David Beckham. Why is that? Because I think the technique doesn't seem massively different whether he's going to whip it in the near post or the far post, depending on what side of the pitch he is. Because the run-up is this 90 degree angle type thing that he does. Because he sort of like bent his run-up.

48:15Michael Cox: like Beckham, bends it like Beckham, bends the run like Beckham before bending the ball. He sort of goes to the left almost and then shifts it round to the right and then whips it across. But it's only that last bit where there seems to be a distinct difference between him going for the near post or the far post. So if you're a goalkeeper reading that, again, going back to what we were saying before, you know what he's going to do. But actually stopping him doing it is very difficult. Just to add some context to Michael's point about eight free kicks. If we look at the Premier League last season, in the whole season, only two players had more than eight direct free kicks in the whole season.

48:47Michael Cox: Shrubhazal had 14 for Liverpool and James Garner had 11. And then you've got a few players like Enzo Fernandes who had eight in a whole season. Beckham had eight in a game. James Ward-Prowse has been chasing down his record. So Beckham's still the all-time Premier League free-kick scoring leader. 18, is that right? James Ward-Prowse is one behind. There's been one behind for three years. 2023, yeah. 2023. He didn't take a single free-kick last season. I interviewed him in around March time. It became an interest of mine because I spoke to him a lot about the free kick record, how frustrating it was to be on the cusp of equaling Beckham.

49:23Beckham was the man who he gives credit to basically for his own free kick technique. This is James Ward-Prowse. He spent his childhood trying to be David Beckham in his back garden. He's very nearly done that at Premier League level. He didn't take a single free kick last season. Actually, he hasn't taken a free kick. February 2023 was the last time he scored and at that point back in March he'd had something like 28 attempts since last scoring so eight in one game or none in a season is is not a great

49:53Michael Cox: comparison for James unfortunately yeah I mean still though phenomenal to come through at the last minute with the last effective kick of the game in such a key match although England probably would have had a playoff they would have had a playoff I think with Ukraine had they not got the result but still a phenomenal moment and when you talk about his iconic his most iconic scenes in football that's possibly the predominant one what with James Ward Prowse when he was trying to become David Beckham what did he mention what it was particularly about Beckham's style or technique that he he tried to bring into his own game um some of those elements that I was talking about before which was which kind of the reason that I knew that Beckham had this 90 degree um angle where he'd sort of be 90 degrees to the goal face up to the ball straight pretty much then bend his run a little bit and that whip and there's something about his left foot as well which it's almost like bent over isn't it yeah almost like dislocated yeah like what are the hyper extended i'm not sure what what the exact medical term would be but there you go and he sort of sweeps it across the turf and then whips the right foot round which again is you know the key part of sort of bending it like beckham but that was what james ward prouse he said he'd studied it and Beckham had this thing as well where he would always place the ball down in exactly the same way it's not like striking it on the on the little um bladder which which the players did for a while yeah as a sort of knuckleball style but he'd always have the same repetition and technique there was Johnny Wilkins yeah they did an advert together for Adidas which was obviously you know two big sports for the country and the two star players we had their speciality was not like open play in some respects one left footed one right footed there's a nice and again they had such similar aspects where it was all about repetition that kid who'd gone out at the cliff as a teenager and practiced practice practice practice was was in the end the man who was delivering the free kicks in the same the same way it's just repetition muscle memory well perfect and that kid who went to old trafford to watch ian yeah what what did you think what did what was the mood there as the The time ticked by and this succession of free kicks happened.

52:01Michael Cox: And that final one came. What was the feeling? Well, I don't think anyone in the crowd would have been aware that a draw was enough. Oh, really? In the build-up to it. Because it would have been 2001. So there might be a guy sat behind with a radio, which I remember as a kid, there was a guy who we nicknamed Radio 5. He used to sit behind us at the match. He'd have a little radio to his ear and would give everyone the updates of the scores elsewhere. There's probably never been a time in Manchester United's history where the scores elsewhere had been less relevant than at this point, I suppose.

52:31But keeping abreast of how everyone was going on was such an important part of going to the match back then because there's no phones, there's no internet, there's no social media.

52:39Michael Cox: I mean, there's internet, but smartphones. Not in your pocket. Certainly not going to get a connection inside Old Trafford. But yeah, I do remember there being a desperation and I do remember it being just all about him. And I think that even in the rundown that Michael gave, the second to last free kick is like in the 88th minute. So you've got to think that like that is the last chance at that point for a free kick in this particular location for David Beckham. But lo and behold, he gets another one. I mean, he was winning. I don't know what the data is and whether Michael knows, but it felt like he was winning all the free kicks to take them.

53:12He was getting himself into these positions, wandering from the right side to get in the Beckham zone to try and win the free kick to then try and get England back in the game. It felt like the only route at that point that England was going to do anything was just through him.

53:23Michael Cox: Well, well done, David Beckham. and England went to the World Cup. And David Beckham did too, although it was touch and go, Duncan, in the build-up. Yeah, was it a Champions League game, I think? Against Deportivo, Aldo Duccia. The Aldo Duccia, yeah, yeah, yeah. And Beckham goes down with an injury and turns out we were all about to learn a new word, unless you were a medical student, metatarsal. And it was a disaster. I think this shows how far Beckham had come from in 98 in the sense that the same newspapers that were lambasting him, then were now encouraging people to touch bits of paper and pray for his foot.

54:00Uri Geller's finest moment.

54:01Michael Cox: Was this Uri Geller? Yeah, it was one of Uri Geller's. Well, Geller claims he made the ball move before Gary McAllister scored. So that's maybe his finest hour. How would you describe Uri Geller, actually? It's an illusionist? TV personality? Yeah, all of the above. Friend of Michael Jackson? Yeah. Yeah. He was a mentalist. Yeah. Yeah. So he bent spoons. That was his big thing. Bending spoons was a huge thing. He would do it live on television to the wonderment of generations of young English folk. Young listeners would definitely think, did all that people cared about in this era was bending things.

54:35Michael Cox: Yeah, true, yeah. Spoons, free kicks, you name it. Yeah, it didn't end there either. It claims that he was in a helicopter above Wembley when the England-Scotland game. How close was the helicopter? I have no idea. Right. Was he even in one? I have no idea. But he says he was, and he says that through his mental power, he was able to make the penalty the ball for the penalty which Gary McAllister missed move slightly which it does too and no one's ever explained it well Yuri Geller has well yes that's his finest moment I would suggest this is maybe a secondary one back to Beckham it was touch and go that he'd be fit for the World Cup and he sort of played like that I would say he wasn't the Swashbuckling Beckham we saw in the autumn we're now into phase 2 of the Beckham playing career.

55:23Michael Cox: There's the penalty against Argentina, which is neat from a narrative viewpoint. Yeah, that's the redemption arc complete. And there's the tackle, which he doesn't make in the quarterfinal with Brazil, which, Duncan, you were saying, is possibly with the metatarsal foot. Yeah, that was what people were theorising at the time, that he didn't want to go in for a full-blooded challenge and risk re-breaking, refracturing the bone. But I would suggest, David Seaman comes out of that game with less credit than David Beckham, if we're ranking David. Indeed. Meanwhile, his Man United career has taken a different turn with Sir Alex Ferguson increasingly frustrated by what he perceives to be a focus on celebrity by his number seven.

56:12Michael Cox: And there's the incident with the boot kicked at David Beckham's head, the stitches in David Beckham's head. the Alice Band enters the story at this point as well doesn't it I think he first wore the Alice Band when leaving the stadium that day to hold the hair back so everyone was able to take a picture of the little cut above his eye when Ferguson had kicked the boot in anger which is not great I suppose not and actually when you sort of listen to Beckham kick your boot in somebody it's not great well that bit's not great I don't know if he intended and he didn't have the searing accuracy of David Beckham But for you to kick a boot across a room so that it hit someone in the head, you're doing something pretty hard.

56:54I mean, he was a centre forward, I suppose, in his day. Although back then, would that not just have been something that happened in a dressing room? Would people not have thrown things and punched people? Bonetti-esque chicken wing plate thereof. I'm not sure that when the cameras now enter these Premier League dressing rooms, that would be at all representative of what the sort of general mood would have been back then. But unquestionably, what you're alluding to, they've fallen out at this point. Ferguson, it's been well documented, sees a massive contradiction between Beckham's brand, his celebrity, his fame.

57:31And I think for younger people listening, you've got to understand how famous this guy was. This is not about football anymore at all, pretty much. He's married a Spice Girl. His very move is tracked by, it feels like, the world. And it goes beyond the UK. You sort of look at the influence that he had on Japanese culture around that time and their obsession with him, the footballer Beckham, but also the pop star, the icon, the brand that he is. And I suppose from Ferguson's perspective, he just wants Manchester United to win. And in his eyes, is this David Beckham doing his utmost to ensure that that happens for Manchester United?

58:10He would insist that he didn't lose focus and that his effort and everything else was the same. but that's where this conflict then the boot kicking and everything that comes with it came from

58:21Michael Cox: 2003 he leaves Old Trafford and after much deliberation heads to Real Madrid let's get on to Real Madrid and the kind of final phase of his playing career next

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1:02:14Michael Cox: Michael, the move to Madrid wasn't crowned with the kind of success, certainly in terms of trophies, that many people thought. It was an absolutely mad line-up they were trying to fit him into. a front four of Ronaldo, Raul, Zidane and Figo. As you mentioned, the only way to fit him in was to play him in the middle where you weren't particularly impressed with the results. No, I mean, not all his fault. They signed Beckham in the same summer they sold McAlealy to Chelsea and the players didn't rate that and they knew what was going to happen. The team was going to be too open. They tried lots of different midfield partners for Beckham.

1:02:51Even the ones that did quite a good job, I think Real Madrid just thought you could play 11 superstars or at least six superstars in the back four and you couldn't and yeah it wasn't all Beckham's fault but he he never really played on the right or quite rarely played on the right Figo was on the right so they played him as a central player he had his moments at times obviously looked very good he scored some great free kicks and to be fair in the periods where he did play to the right or could drift to the right he was very good at sending crosses for Ronaldo. I think later Van Nistelrooy as well, obviously he had a very good relationship with Manchester United.

1:03:27So it was a bit of a disappointment really Real Madrid. Again, not all his fault for similar reasons that we spoke about Zidane's period at Real Madrid not being that spectacular after his brilliant goal in the Champions League final. It was just all a bit of a mess and he was a victim of that as much as a symptom of that. The nice thing in a way about his Real Madrid period was right at the end when I think he'd already announced he was going to leave for LA Galaxy and Capello who obviously would later manage him briefly for England basically decided that Beckham was not going to be a part of his plans anymore and actually a little bit like we spoke about with Fabregas and Conte a couple of weeks ago Beckham was just so good in training that he actually he eased his way back into his plans and and played quite a big part towards the end of that campaign for Real Madrid but yeah for for what felt like a match made in heaven in terms of a club who loved superstars and a player who was at least off the pitch the ultimate superstar at this point it was a little bit unmemorable really it was it was between two areas of Real Madrid success they were great at the turn of the century when they started to involve some superstars and they were obviously great in the 2010s when you know the Cristiano Ronaldo era and even in the 2020s, the kind of Vinicius era if you want to call it that but the Beckham period didn't really work out to be honest

1:04:50Michael Cox: It was followed by five years in MLS where he was a groundbreaking signing, paved the way for a lot of big names who followed, won a couple of MLS Cups, a couple of US titles, fell out with the fans and one or two of his teammates I think it's fair to say because of his habit of disappearing off to play for Milan which I think when you're talking about focus being elsewhere I mean it literally was. Yeah I think they would have a much fairer argument than maybe Ferguson although I'm sure he would claim that he had a very fair argument to say that Beckham was distracted. But yeah I mean wouldn't we all want to do that?

1:05:31Wouldn't you all want to just take a little soiree to Milan at that time of year and then Paris obviously latterly. And again I suppose the fact that he was wanted by these huge clubs for whatever reason at that point again underlines it because this is the tail end of his career unquestionably. I mean, if you look at, I think six years at LA Galaxy, he didn't win even their own player of the year award once. Edson, Buddle and Chris Klein, my research reveals, won a player of the year during Beckham's time there. But in the way that when Robbie Keane went there, best player by a distance, Zlatan went there, best player by a distance, even people like Javier Hernandez, there's multiple player of the year winner for LA Galaxy.

1:06:10Sherry Henry. Yeah, but I don't know if he won player of the year. I'm not sure. I need to check that. But yeah, what I'm trying to say is it wasn't like it was a fantastic footballing success to have David Beckham at LA Galaxy. But again, the brand, the influence, everything else that goes with it. When Michael spoke before about just how much of his fingerprints were right across the American World Cup in the summer, across the advertising, the marketing, You can't really question his impact on US soccer and is the only player and now owner to have won the LMLS Cup in both those roles.

1:06:44Michael Cox: Good Lord. Good Lord. Yeah, it was incredible in the summer, Duncan. The amount, we'd be sat there watching Fox Sports. We would. And I think we counted more or less seven or eight brands that he would be advertising in every single, not seven or eight adverts, but you would often have back-to-back David Beckham adverts within the same commercial break. Famously, on one occasion, we switched over to Telemundo, and he was on that as well. Yeah. And he was also, because they would do, when they had the hydration breaks, they would do the adverts in a little picture-in-picture so you'd see the footage from the stadium.

1:07:18Michael Cox: Sometimes you'd also get a shot of David Beckham having a glass of red wine from the stadium while an advert of David Beckham played out. I've never seen anybody featured as much as David Beckham was in that period. So in terms of his impact, his celebrity, it only seems to grow. Paris Saint-Germain was where he finished off his career. His time for Milan had been, I mean, you said for whatever reasons they wanted him. I think there were pretty significant off-field reasons why Milan and PSG won. PSG the same, right? He did all right, Milan. I think he arrived out of shape on both occasions and he did all right.

1:07:56Michael Cox: I think the numbers say two goals, nine assists in just under 30 games. So, yeah, it's all right. I just remember him wearing a green and gold scarf at Manchester United. That was a huge moment for the fan base at the time. The height of that stage of the campaign from the fans against the Glazer ownership and green and gold became the symbol of that. And as Beckham walks off the pitch, I don't know to this day whether he knew what he was doing or not, to be honest. how aware is he not somebody intensely aware of the impact of his visuals I'd hope so I'd hope he was aware I think there's not a player who's less casual about what he does in public than David Beckham if it was anyone else maybe you could give them more I just think it's a huge political thing that for him to pick up the scarf and wear it still to this day is probably the biggest show of dissent from a player on field to the Glazer ownership which obviously has gone on now for two decades basically.

1:08:54Michael Cox: Yeah, I mean it echoes a bad show when he went back to play against Fiorentina for Juventus after his move from Florence to Juve had sparked riots and he refuses to take a penalty against his former side and as he's leaving the field somebody throws a viola scarf on and he puts it round his neck as he walks off and of course they never forgave him for that in Turin. Anyway. Never become a club ambassador for Manchester United under the glazed ownership since either although I imagine his number was probably too high yeah anyway pretty busy pretty busy sure his final game for Paris Saint-Germain he played there six months gave his entire wages to Parisian children's charities and his last game came against Brest and he blubbed oh big time poor blow it's really moving seeing him actually because as I say he is so composed normally does that not show you how much he still cared about football though yeah fundamentally again underneath it all because I can I remember another player reacting quite like that in their final appearance.

1:09:59Totty. Yeah was he completely out of control as well yeah so it's not happened much.

1:10:04Michael Cox: No. And it is cutting isn't it to watch him. Yeah. Tugs at the heartstrings. He does seem to have cheered up since though and why wouldn't he? Why wouldn't he? Things are going pretty pretty well. So when we look back at George Best's summary Michael how fair was all of that? What did George say? He can't tackle. He can't kick with his left foot. He can't head. He doesn't score many goals. Apart from that, he's all right. He did score quite a few goals. How unfair was George Best's? And if you had to define Beckham, how would you do it? Yeah, the goal scoring thing is interesting. I mean, particularly his record for England, because there's almost like, I don't know what metaphor I'll go for.

1:10:45It's almost like a sandwich thing. It's a very thickly packed sandwich. So what I mean by that is his first 38 games for England he only scores one goal his last 34 games for England he only scores one goal they're both free kicks in a world cup by the way but in the middle the 43 games in the middle he scores 15 goals wow so if you have to do the data on that um but yeah I mean as a summary aside from the goal scoring yeah what best said is kind of true but I think in those days you could be a specialist more than you can today. I think today it's more about not having any weaknesses. I think teams and players are scouted so intensely now that if there's one weakness in your defensive structure, for example, then that will get exploited.

1:11:33If there's one weakness in your skill set, that will get exploited. I think to a certain extent back in those days, it was more about what you were good at. And, you know, wingers traditionally over the years have just been like getting crosses in. You look at Stanley Matthews' goal-scoring record, that wasn't very impressive. But no one really made much of a fuss about it. Beckham was a very, very good player. He made the most of what he had. I think that, you know, his actual skill set was limited, but he maximised that. He used it in a number of ways. He was a really efficient player. And yeah, provided some great memories.

1:12:09Just to go back to the PSG thing very briefly, I actually think he was quite good at PSG. I think he was surprisingly good at PSG. Played in a couple of Champions League games. And I think it's quite important when we remember players that we don't see them just completely falling apart and on their last legs and like you should have gone a couple of years ago. He was actually quite useful for them. So I think he went out with a more favourable impression than he might have if we just remembered him as, you know, someone doing things in MLS that most of us in Europe weren't really following. So, yeah, in the end, he went out on a high note, I think.

1:12:41Michael Cox: Funny, given what Michael said, I was actually slating Stanley Matthews' goalscoring record to a colleague this morning. Were you? Yeah. Because obviously Ballon d 'Or coming up and it's the anniversary of him winning the first one. Yes. His numbers aren't great. Different times, Duncan. Different times. Well, there you go. David Beckham, you'd add in his strength and character, his calmness under pressure, his ability to be the big game man for both Manchester United and England. And what a phenomenal career he made for himself. Absolutely. I can't disagree with a lot of what we've sort of praised throughout this and pointed with him, not the fastest, maybe not the most talented, but ultimately a very good footballer, an important player in one of the best eras of any team in English football.

1:13:29And, you know, we've not really talked about it that much, but also a cultural icon, a reference point for society throughout some of this, popularising tattoos and hair dye for men and nail polish, moisturiser. Getting cornrows to visit Nelson Mandela. cornrows um all these things that's without the football yeah without the football does he meet posh spice does he marry posh spice does he do all these things can he wear a sarong and whatever else the football underlines it all still because if he'd been absolutely terrible he'd have never

1:14:02Michael Cox: got away so true so true do you know what just to finish off in all this show there's one thing we've never mentioned go on we've talked about goals and we've never mentioned it but it's the other iconic David Beckham special? It shouldn't have been scoring direct from a corner at Preston on his debut right should have been the moment that brought attention properly then scores a free kick in his first start for Preston but yeah forget that he'd actually scored for Manchester United against Galatasaray before that anyway but yeah the halfway line goal the David Beckham the thing that we all try to recreate as kids opening day 1996 I think it was Wimbledon away Neil Sullivan's the goalkeeper.

1:14:43Beckham spots him off his line and unleashes another one of his trademark techniques, which is this sort of like lob chip type thing. I don't know exactly how you classify it that far away from goal. Perfectly executed over Sullivan, who ends up the wrong way around, jumping up aimlessly to try and stop it in the sunshine, arms aloft. And apparently, Jordi Cruyff had already tried it in that game because it was something that they'd seen a weakness in Neil Sullivan's game. But he didn't execute it. David Beckham did. And the rest is history. Time for Manchester United with Beckham! That's absolutely brilliant.

1:15:25Take a bow, David Beckham. A goal you'll see over and over again.

1:15:32Michael Cox: Ian, thank you so much for bringing that history to life for us today. Thank you. I'm totally extra. Many, many thanks to you, Michael Cox, as well. Thank you. And Duncan Alexander and producer Jesse. We'll be back with a new Totally Extra soon. So I do hope you'll be joining us for that. For now, from all of us here, it's goodbye.

1:15:55You've been listening to The Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. For more great podcasts just like this one, including the Athletic FC and our dedicated club podcasts, search for The Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. We're also at The Totally Football Show on Insta and at The Totally Show on YouTube. The Totally Football Show is an Athletic Media Company production.

1:16:23The Athletic FC.

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