Totally Tomori: James Horncastle meets Fikayo in Milan

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1:12Fikayo Tomori: Terms and conditions apply. See offer page for details.

1:19Fikayo Tomori: The Athletic FC

1:27Fikayo Tomori: Hello there and welcome to a bonus Saturday helping of the Totally Football Show. Recently, James Horncastle of the Athletic and our Totally Football Show European Edition headed over to Milan to speak to Milan and England defender Fikaru Tomori here is what they said.

1:46Fikayo Tomori: I'm James Horncastle from The Athletic and welcome to Milan. I'm here to see one of the locals, not Franco Barresi, not Paolo Maldini, but someone who knows this city very well, has lived here for five years, so let's go check it out. Ficayo, how are you? You well? Nice to see you. Nice to see you as well. Thank you for doing this. No worries. Thanks for welcoming us to your neighbourhood.

2:07James Horncastle: Thank you very much. It's a nice little scenic place, isn't it? It is. My only concern is it's right next to Inter's offices. Yeah. We try not to look over that side, but... No, it's a nice little spot. What do you like about living in Milan? It's just a very easy city. Like, London, coming from London, everything's very 100 miles an hour, very fast, and there's always traffic and noise, but here it's a lot quieter. Yeah. The pace of life is a lot slower. So you like that, La Vida Lenda? Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. You got friends outside of football here? Do you know what? I think my friends are my teammates because we see each other so much and training is so intense.

2:48James Horncastle: There's always training and games. Retiro. So retiro is when you often go to Milanello the night before a game

2:57Fikayo Tomori: or you're playing away, you're in the team hotel the night before. You like that. Some players don't like it. It takes them away from their families.

3:04James Horncastle: Yeah, sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. But in all honesty, I'm here by myself most of the time, so if I have to stay in a hotel, it doesn't really matter. I'll kind of do the same thing I do at home, but I've got people that, you know, if I need to go to a restaurant, I can call them and stuff like that. So, yeah, very much a homey, all the same. In terms of going out around Milan, you talked about you can call people up to go to restaurants.

3:28Fikayo Tomori: I mean, again, a lot of people don't realise that at Milan you can have really good sushi and everything. But if you're going for Italian food, what are you doing?

3:39James Horncastle: Do you know, what I've noticed here is there isn't a restaurant that I've gone here that isn't good. And I think because Italians value food so much, if it's not good, it won't last very long. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So when I first got here, actually, there was a place that I used to, because I used to live in the same building as Alexis Salamacca's. Okay. Obviously, he spoke English, so... Yeah, yeah. So because he spoke English, him and I just kind of had a connection immediately, and he took me to a place called Lozenzero.

4:05Fikayo Tomori: Okay.

4:05James Horncastle: Which is quite close to the stadium, and that is really authentic Italian food. Really, really good. So I think if I want like a carpenter or something, I'm going there for sure.

4:15Fikayo Tomori: Yeah. Also, the food at Milanello is very good now.

4:18James Horncastle: Top. Very, very good. Very, very good. Different to how it was in England. In England, it's kind of like a buffet style. Yeah. But then here, the first day I arrived, and they said, oh, what do you want to eat? I said, oh, what is there to eat? They said, okay, the menu's here. I said, okay, I'll have this, this, and this. And then they bring out T-Fresh. And obviously the food is high quality, So it was a nice culture shock, let's say.

4:40Fikayo Tomori: I mean, Milanello, when you walk in there, you just really feel the history, don't you? I mean, I know that Premier League, there are a lot of modern training grounds.

4:50James Horncastle: But Milanello, in terms of walking into that old clubhouse, there's nothing like it, is there? Yeah, yeah. Because I'd never actually seen it, obviously, before I'd transferred here. So that was the first thing you hit with, you're just seeing pictures of all the Champions League. You see Maldini, you see Berezi, you see Shevchenko, Kaká, you see all these legends. Now I'm here doing the same thing, so that was definitely something I enjoyed.

5:16Fikayo Tomori: You talk about those photos, you've got red walls and these black picture frames. I imagine you're now in some of those pictures, no?

5:25James Horncastle: Yeah, especially the 2002 Segureto, our pictures there. and as the season goes on, we have our different pictures from moments throughout the season, but we have our Scudetto picture on there and Supercoppa pictures there. So hopefully you can... Well, I'm sure the Scudetto and the Supercoppa will stay there for many years to come. You've been here for five years now. Yeah. When you signed that contract with Milan, did you expect to be here as long as you have been? Honestly, no. Obviously, when I first came, I signed on loan. So, you know, with a loan, you never really know what's going to happen.

6:00James Horncastle: And it came to about March time and Paolo Madin asked, he said, do you want to stay? I said, yeah, I'd like to stay. And then from there I kind of had to switch my mind. Even though I hadn't properly officially signed, but I was kind of already in my head, I'm going to stay here. And then you never know, football, maybe one year you're in and then the next year you're out. But after five years, I'm still kind of here. I'm still here. I'm very comfortable, very happy. and a good season thus far this season. So hopefully the fifth year can be capped off with a nice present at the end. I mean, you mentioned there Paolo Maldini.

6:37Fikayo Tomori: You said it quite nonchalantly. Yeah. Paolo Maldini calls and says, do you want to stay? I mean, what was it like for a player in your position to interact with someone like Paolo to begin with, but then on a very frequent basis? Yeah.

6:53James Horncastle: I mean, at first, because it was around COVID time, So we spoke on Zoom and I was just, at the time I didn't really process it because I was there with my agent and we spoke on the phone and the first thing I was surprised that he was speaking English. I was like, oh, good English. Yeah, really good English. So I was like, oh, he speaks English. So then we spoke a little bit, hung up the phone and I kind of thought, I should go to Paolo Mardini. It was a strange one, but it was a surreal kind of moment. I used to watch him on TV, heard so many stories about him, obviously seen him play. And Milan legend, he's like, yeah, we want to sign you for Milan.

7:33James Horncastle: I had to think about it a bit. But then coming here and seeing him on a day-to-day basis, literally every single day, you see how... First of all, he has definitely a presence and aura about him when he's walking around because he is Milan. Even when he said, oh, well done for this, it stays with you a little bit more because it's him. So I'm a really, really top, top person as well.

7:54Fikayo Tomori: Yeah. I mean, you've done it all here, really. You've mentioned won the league, Super Cup. You've played in a cup final last year, you've been in a Champions League semi-final, which is a Milan derby.

8:06James Horncastle: What are the moments you cherish most in your time here? I mean, the first time I came, the San Siro was empty, like I said, because of COVID. But even seeing it empty, it still felt so grand and so big. when I signed I thought okay I'm actually going to see the San Siro when it's full capacity everything like that and I remember the first game we played at home I think it was Cagliari and the stadium was full and I just thought whoa this is what like I used to play FIFA when I was younger and we used to choose the San Siro to play because you could choose the stadium to play you could play I don't know it would be Man United to Arsenal but you could choose to play in the San Siro and we used to do that a lot I used to do that a lot with my cousins and I was thinking, wow, this is the San Siro.

8:53James Horncastle: And then I think another moment was when, because in London you can go around and maybe one or two people ask for pictures, but because London's so big and there's so many people, you can kind of get away with, you can go outside for lunch or dinner or whatever and maybe not many people bother you. But here, because Milan is smaller and they are so passionate about Milan, passionate about football, and go outside and went to the centre one time with my friends and they were like, don't worry, picture, picture, picture. And it was, oh, what's going on? I'd never experienced that before. And again, after the Scudetto, when we had to do the parade.

9:30James Horncastle: Yeah. And it was supposed to be, I think, two hours or something like that. And we ended up staying there, staying on the bus for about five hours because there were so many people on the streets. And we got to the Duomo and the only time I'd ever seen the Duomo, it would have been obviously people and tourists and taking pictures. But we got there and the dorm was just full. Like, you couldn't see the floor. It was just people and fireworks and noise and music. And it was... I think those moments, I guess, away from the picture, I'm kind of like, well, this is a real... This is a real institution of football.

10:05James Horncastle: This is real, you know, passion and love. So in England, for example, the Curva Sud. Yeah. It's not a thing in England. But in Italy, it is. You know, having just these ultra-passionate fans who just sing for 90 minutes, or not even 90 minutes, they're there before we were out for warming up, and they're there after the game, and it's just, they are so passionate, and they're so ready to support the team and push us on every single game, and I think even that in itself is another nuanced thing about it that just makes it so special, and when I have people come for the derby, because everyone wants to come for the derby.

10:43James Horncastle: How many tickets get requested from you? I think the last one, I think I used 15, 15 to 20, something like that. So there's a lot of people, there's a lot of demand. But no, people say, yeah, I've heard about the Milan derby. I've seen it on TV. But actually being in the stadium is a totally different experience. What's it like on those days leading up to the derby? It is different. It is very different. The first derby I played, again, it was COVID. But the fans came to the training room. Again, it doesn't happen in England. The fans came to the training ground and they're waving flags and they've got banners and everything.

11:18And immediately that happens.

11:21James Horncastle: You think, OK, this is a different game. This is a different game. This is a different sort of derby. Yeah, because people have these stereotypes about intensity, don't they?

11:29Fikayo Tomori: And in England, they usually think of intensity as being very aerobic, athletic, up and down, up and down. Spain, intensity is maybe technical. Here they talk about it as being tactical. Actually, it's probably mental now. What you just described there, the information you have to process, because I think a lot of people still think of Serie A as being very tactical, but that pressure you feel in those stadiums, on those occasions, it is unlike anywhere, I'd say in Europe. You might get it in Argentina.

12:02James Horncastle: But do you think that is where the intensity is in Italian football? Yeah, 100%. I think, like you said, in England, intensity is very much, we've got to be at them we've got to run harder than them and here it's mental, not only mental like you said in terms of preparation for the game and dealing with the outside pressures of the fans or the expectation or whatever it is but they value so much here being concentrated and locked into the game for 90 minutes and it seems easier than you think it is but it's a lot harder to actually be in the game for 90 minutes because here there are a lot of things where teams are waiting for that moment where one person out of the 11 switches off and then they strike.

12:51James Horncastle: There is so much information. When he goes here, you need to be here. But then if he goes there, then you need to be here. But if your teammate's there, you can stay there because he's going to cover. But then if he doesn't cover, you have to run anyway. All that information and detail, yeah, it is something you have to get used to. And again, I didn't speak Italian, so you know having to if you come here don't speak the language and you have to process that while you're trying to focus on your game communicate on the pitch everything is just intense yeah

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16:57Fikayo Tomori: best football writers around. You've got a very international dressing room, but they want you to speak Italian. I think it was always very... It was a priority for people like Paolo Maldini that in the dressing room you speak Italian. Yeah, yeah. If you look at the coaches who've won the Premier League the most, the most coaches who've done it have come from Italy. What is it about Italian coaching that you think is different from, let's say, the other coaches? Obviously, you've had a couple of Portuguese coaches here, but generally

17:27James Horncastle: how would you describe the Italian way of coaching? Detailed detailed is probably the word, I mean even at Chelsea my first pre-season it was with Conte Easy Very much the opposite but it's very intense and they know exactly what they want to the letter and all the staff know exactly what the coach wants so his staff are also like it needs to be like this, you need to be here you need to play the ball here, the ball needs to arrive there. When the ball's there, you need to be there. It's too far. You have to get there. You have to make it. You have to do it. They really do drill it into you, not even on the pitch, but in meetings, you know, they've got their interactive whiteboard and they're right in here, circling here, pointing arrows there, and there's everything.

18:10James Horncastle: I mean, if someone come into the dressing room and they're thinking, what's going on? What are they trying to do here? It makes no sense. Yeah, I mean, it's a different type of running, if that makes sense. Okay. So like I said, in the Premier League, I would say there's more space in terms of, OK, if the ball goes between lines, it doesn't matter because then we'll just have to run and get it. But in it, they're like, no, why do we have to run after when we can prevent it happening before? Every single Italian coach I've had as well, they've always said they don't want the game to be like basketball.

18:36James Horncastle: So they don't want it to be like, you attack, we attack, you attack, we attack. Because at that point, anyone can win. It's chaos. Anyone can win. They can score a goal and then we might not score a goal on that attack. Or we might score a goal, but then they might score a goal. and then it just becomes you know 1-1, 2-2, 3-4 but for Italians it's more like if you can score a goal at that point you've got the three points you're winning so why do we need to risk the game when we can take the three points on with us and we can let them come and beat us rather than making the game an open basketball game so I think that was a myth I mean it's definitely not go on un-intense in-intense I'm not even sure what the opposite of it is but you know it's lacking intensity yeah I wouldn't say that I'm not sure if you can if the stats are available but if you see the stats of the running that we do it's very very very high I mean we've played against Premier League teams in the Champions League and obviously Premier League is a very high level but you know we've beaten Premier League teams we've lost to Premier League teams and it's not like we've lost to them because we've been overrun or because we're lacking intensity maybe because the other team was better than us and sometimes that happens in football In all your time here who's the player that has challenged you the most?

19:46James Horncastle: Opposing player? There are a few. Dybala. Yeah. Why? Because he plays in the spaces that you don't want to go into. Okay. He plays in the spaces that he knows that you don't want to go into. So he knows, you know, if I receive the ball here, I can turn and go straight at you. But he knows if you go into that space, you're either going to free up his teammate or if the ball comes to him, he's going to play the ball and he's going to be gone. So I'd say him, Lautaro, again, because his movement is so good. Good in the air as well. Yeah, good in the air, deceptively so, because he's not the tallest, but his timing is good and he will give you a bump before to give himself that advantage.

20:26James Horncastle: Ozyman, when Ozyman was here? Yeah, Ozyman is just relentless. He does not stop running for 90 minutes. Did not stop running. Ozyman, let me just think of one more. Ademola, look, man.

20:42Fikayo Tomori: Yeah?

20:43James Horncastle: Yeah.

20:44Fikayo Tomori: For similar reasons to Dybala.

20:46James Horncastle: Yeah, yeah. But Ademola is very, like... Dybala is more... He's more thinking about, OK, I know you can't come in. Ademola knows if you come there, he's really, really sharp. And honestly, maybe because I know him, but I always find it difficult to play against him because he's always on the move and he's always going short to go long, long to go short, and he's just always moving, always moving. So I'd say Ademola, for sure, yeah.

21:13Fikayo Tomori: So you were pleased he didn't go to Inter in the summer?

21:16James Horncastle: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Very much so. I spoke to him when he stayed. I said, if he went to Inter, we wouldn't have been friends anymore. What about your teammates?

21:31Fikayo Tomori: In your five years, who's been the player that's maybe surprised you the most?

21:38James Horncastle: Rafa, Leo. Yeah? He has everything. I was really surprised. He's fast, he's strong He can dribble the ball He can shoot He can head He can actually do everything And I was surprised to how It was almost like he didn't know how good he was I think because everything just became so natural It's so natural to him It's just He came out of the womb And this is just how he knew how to play football So he just didn't know how He could use what he had And then everyone saw it in the when the year one skedetto, how almost like he realised, oh, I can do this, I can do this. And yeah, it was, he's definitely one.

22:19James Horncastle: Another one, maybe less surprising, but it was more like, oh, I had to see it to believe it was Latin.

22:26Fikayo Tomori: Yeah?

22:27James Horncastle: Yeah, because... What did he see? Just raw power and skill. And he was really mentally challenging for everyone. He really demanded the best out of everyone and himself. But he was very... Like, when I'm here, pass me the ball here so I can do this. If you don't pass me the ball there, what's the point? Kind of thing. I mean, when I came, I think he was 39 maybe, but he was... After an ACL. Yeah, it was crazy. But, I mean, the ball would get put in the air and he would just hold you there and just take it on his chest. And he would maybe flick it or do something. How's he done that? Yeah, he was, I'd say he's Lata and Arafa were the two that when I came, I thought, oh, okay.

23:13James Horncastle: Lata looks in good shape at the moment. Do you think he'd still back himself to? I mean, I wouldn't bet against him. I think if you put a challenge for him in that sort of regard, he would definitely rise to it. I mean, when he joined that January, do you think he kind of helped raise standards? Yeah, I think so. I think when I first came, I think he'd been there already maybe a year and a half or something like that. So when I came, I mean, I was 23, but there were a lot of players younger than me. So we had Salamakas and Tonali, Brian Diaz, Teo was my age. Kind of inexperienced that, kind of experiencing a big club for the first time.

23:53James Horncastle: A lot of young players who were kind of experiencing new things and having someone like Zlatan who's been there, seen it all, can basically be a manager on the pitch. coaching on the pitch yeah I mean coaching in a different way in Zlatan's way in Zlatan's way but you know in terms of you know having like for him it's not an excuse if you're young you're here because we need you here and because we believe you have a quality to be here so you have to show it so there's not you can't misplace that pass you can't miss that shot you can't miss that cross because you're here and what you're doing affects me and what we're doing affects Milan so that was kind of his thing so I think that having him around raised the levels in training and he also made people realise that there is a level to get to to achieve things because you know he's achieved so much so again for us young players who would actually seen him do things and now you're playing with him you can't really argue with him if he says well put the ball here because I need it here yeah you think well I can't really argue with it I'll put the ball there What's it like playing in front of Mike Mania?

25:02Fikayo Tomori: Yeah. Because, I mean, he had big gloves to fill in replacing Donnarumma. Yeah.

25:07James Horncastle: What's it like being a centre-back with that guy behind you? He's, in a way, kind of like Zatan. Okay. Maybe less in-your-face with it. Not to say in-your-face is bad, but he's very particular. Okay. In a good way. And in terms of, like, he's like, this is how things should be. So why are they not like this kind of thing? Right. Always talking, demanding the highest standards. And obviously, you know, he's saved us so many times this season because he's a top, top goalkeeper, a leader. You know, I think just the way he is, he brings so much confidence to everyone.

25:42Fikayo Tomori: And Christian, another former Chelsea player. I mean, Christian, his kind of goals per minute ratio this year has been unbelievable going into a World Cup year. I mean, what's special about Christian?

25:54James Horncastle: Yeah, Pogli is just... I think people underestimate him. I think that's what it is. I think people don't realise how fast he is. They don't realise how sharp he is, how good he's with the ball, how intelligent he is. And I think you only realise it when he's scored a goal against you.

26:10Fikayo Tomori: I think there's a World Cup coming up.

26:12James Horncastle: I mean, how much would you like to be there? Very much so. Obviously, I haven't done it yet. I've had the feeling that I've been close, but I just haven't... Whatever it is I need to do to get there, I haven't done it yet. I'm focused on trying to do the best I can, play as much as I can, play at the best level I can, and then we'll see what happens. And has the coach been in touch, Thomas Tuchel? Yeah, we spoke a few months ago. And again, he kind of said what I said, you know, that I'm close and there's not a lot in it, just to keep going. And, you know, in football life, anything can happen.

26:50James Horncastle: I mean, this has been one of your best seasons. I mean,

26:55Fikayo Tomori: would Mr Allegri, I wouldn't say the defensive phase, has more importance than the attacking phase, but certainly he is someone who really values clean sheets. I mean, you're having a hell of a season, aren't you?

27:09James Horncastle: Yeah, yeah. We're doing really, really well. I think the mister, one of the first meetings he took when he came here, he kind of put up the statistics. He said, OK, the last two, three seasons, he scored, I don't know, 80-something goals. That is Champions League champions statistics. however we have conceded 40 something goals that is for sixth place or maybe on a good year fourth place okay and he said that is not to say the defenders are bad and the defenders aren't doing their job and the goalkeeper's not doing their job but it's just to say the whole team needs to have that mentality that we should not we cannot concede this many goals because if we don't concede that many goals we will be at the top of the table and especially with the players we have up front keeping clean sheets is going to win us games or we won't lose games and he's been very, what's the word, very demanding in that we are compact as a team and that it's not just the goalkeeper who has to save the world, it's not just the defenders who have to defend, it's not just the midfielders who have to attract runners it's not just the tackles who have to press everyone has their job and everyone needs to do it together as a team and especially in the big games this season, I think I'm not sure if you I see the Goffin will complain in terms of against Inter or Roma, all these teams I don't think we have.

28:30James Horncastle: So you can see that we are building, we are getting better. What's it like having him on the sideline? I'm not sure if everyone's seen the videos, but he is very animated. He's very involved in the game. But again, I think that just comes from him because he knows exactly what he wants. He knows exactly what he wants from the team and where someone should be at a specific time. So when someone's not there, it's frustrating for him because he's like, this is where you need to be kind of thing. And also, not only just a top manager, but he's a really, really top guy and keeps the environment positive, which is, I think, something that's underrated in management, keeping the environment and keeping players happy, managing the changing room, I think, especially in this day and age where there are so many good players.

29:13James Horncastle: But yeah, he's been top, and I think you can see, like I said, in the results that we've been having this season. Well, best of luck for the rest of the season with Milan. Thank you. Hope to see you in the US for the World Cup. Hopefully so.

29:27Fikayo Tomori: Many thanks to Fagayo and James for that excellent chat. James has also written a piece on that interview, which you can read, of course, on theathletic.com, and he'll be back with us in next Tuesday's European edition of the Totally Football Show. Our next Totally Show, though, will be before that on Sunday night, when we'll be getting together here in the studio to react to all the weekend's action. Hopefully you'll be joining us again soon. For now, from all of us here, it's goodbye.

29:54Fikayo Tomori: You've been listening to The Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. For other great podcasts just like this one, including The Athletic FC and our dedicated club podcasts, search for The Athletic in all the usual places. We're also at The Totally Show on Insta and at The Totally Show on YouTube. The Totally Football Show is an Athletic Media Company production.

30:20Fikayo Tomori: The Athletic FC.

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