Villa win the Europa League - will former winners Spurs go down on Sunday?

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2:15Totally Football Show. Today, Aston Villa are Europa League champions. We celebrate the Aston Ballers in Istanbul. Their 3-0 win over Freiburg. and look back on Unai Emery's restoration of the Villa and ask what's ahead. Will their future be brighter, for example, than last year's winner's Spurs, who 12 months on are battling West Ham for relegation in the final round of the Premier League season? What awaits? Which London side will be taking their yawning stadium into the Championship? We'll be discussing that and more in this Totally Football Show.

2:49Totally Football Show on the 21st of May, a Thursday. Joined here in the studio by, hey, Duncan Alexander. Hey. Also, Charlie Ecclashier is with us. Hello. Hey. And Jay Harris as well. Good morning. Good morning to you. Nice atmosphere today. Got some trophies being won. We've got last week of the season ahead. Only 21 days, Jay, until Mexico take on South Africa. Lovely stuff. Yeah. Incredible. Wow. Charlie and Duncan were both with us in our special Cut and Keep Gunners Win Title commemoration podcast on Tuesday night. Charlie, what did you do afterwards? Went to the Emirates Stadium. What did you see?

3:31A lot of very happy people. I have to say the thing that was most striking was kind of the diversity of people there. It was genuinely quite a powerful thing. It really felt like a proper representation of the fan base. I guess the... And players too. And then players eventually. I guess the sad thing about that in a way is that maybe the match day doesn't represent that same diversity. So yeah, it was a really special atmosphere. And, you know, it's obviously because everyone's in a party mode. Often when you get lots of people together, there's a lot of tension and everything like that. I have to say as well, it did contrast quite nicely.

4:13Last year, I was in Paris for the French Open, as I will be tomorrow. and I watched the Champions League final at the Parc de France where they had a big screen. And initially it was a similar kind of really happy vibe. But then as soon as the game finished, it all got very edgy and a bit feral and was actually quite unpleasant. So yeah, this felt like a far more harmonious and just happy atmosphere. All right, the Champions League final will feature PSG again this year. And Arsenal too. Who knows if you'll be heading down to the Emirates after that one. Hey, question mark, question mark. or if indeed you'll be in Budapest for the game.

4:48Loads of players were down there, loads of great content on social media, Duncan. I don't think I've ever seen as many videos about one event in so many different angles and flavours. And it was, yeah, I mean, what I thought was quite striking was we've had months of fans of, you know, particularly clubs like, I guess, Liverpool, Manchester United, Chelsea, who have been, you know, fairly perturbed at some of Arsenal's social media fans and activity. But there were so many kind of people going, oh, actually, this is quite nice, isn't it? It's quite good, fair enough. No, no, no, send the celebration police.

5:25No, no, I think the celebration police have officially been called off and everyone has gone, oh, yeah, it is quite good when a big club who haven't won the league for a long time. I guess the most recent example would have been Liverpool in 2020, but that was obviously kind of weird because they had to lift the trophy with Coldplay playing and no one in the stadium and people did gather. I actually did think that of Liverpool, of like the fact that they didn't get to have this equivalent because it was such an amazing outpouring of joy and obviously Liverpool had been even longer and the fact that, yeah, that was kind of the height of COVID.

5:56Plus they had core players as well. What track did they choose for that? I can't remember, but I remember feeling it was a little bit... All right, Jay. Meantime, today, Thursday, is all about Aston Villa, which has won the Europa League. Did you enjoy the game? Yeah. I think we always knew that Villa were the favourites heading into it. But two superb goals from Tielemans and Buendia set them going. And from that point onwards, they sort of just cruising and could have scored a lot more than three goals by the end. Freiburg and the underlying metrics once again taking a beating from Aston Villa, Duncan.

6:32Well, Villa smashed them on XG, which isn't always the case. But I mean, I think the first two goals were sort of what you dream of in a cup final, right? I mean, a corner routine, which apparently everyone hates, but actually quite good, right? There's corner routines and there's corner routines. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, there's different. Yeah, there's football and there's football. I just thought Morgan Rodgers got it in the box and Telemann scuffed it in. I thought, you know, whatever. And then that second goal from Brandia. And let's not forget, he's right footed. And that's with his weaker foot.

7:04I mean, yes, he's very two-footed, but just absolutely lovely.

7:18I mean, a bit like the Champions League final last year, you did hope for a slightly closer encounter. The first 40 minutes looked like it might be. Yeah, but it just felt like Villa were just sort of warming up. My counter-argument is, would you prefer a repeat of last season's Europa League final, which was tighter but far less entertaining? And the only goal on offer was incomparable to the three goals that were scored last night. Yeah, that is a fair point. The Morgan Rodgers goal at the end, then, that was pretty good as well. Really nice. Yeah, yeah. Great, great run and finish. And they nearly scored.

7:53I mean, the fourth they nearly scored when Buendia is sent through. It's Tielemans' pass, isn't it? Just an unbelievable move. The weight on that. it's almost like he's playing power league as well. He just gets so close up and then he kind of has to stop and it's like he's got too many options, Wendia. It's a bit like with that Fernandes one for West Ham against Raya. He gets a little bit too close. Yeah, yeah. But it's always good when a ball's hit that hard into the side netting because at first... And a lot of people did, it sounded like. Now, it's a Premier League side winning a European final with a really emphatic scoreline.

8:27there is a slight I think subconscious asterisk that we might be bringing to this Colin Miller with that Colin Miller's stat about English clubs since the start of last season in the Europa League and Conference League they've played 20 knockout ties now against non-English opposition that's two-legged rounds and finals they've won every single one of them and when equally last season was won by the fourth worst team in the Premier League beating the fifth worst team in the Premier League maybe there's a slight feeling of this not being that big an achievement but you wonder how low you'd have to go down the EFL to sort of Coventry I think they'd do pretty well but to put this in a bit of perspective well Duncan Liss Championship sides go on Duncan one thing I can say because I remember we wrote about it last season was that in the last season Europa League obviously Spurs and Manchester United were way clear of everybody else in terms of the amount of money that they generate I think they were in 400, 500 million realm And then third highest team, I think, was Eintracht Frankfurt on around about 200.

9:31So like double the amount of the next highest team. And so when you've just got that financial power, you should be expected to win the competition. And I do think that imbalance, I don't know how you address it, but. And I'm not trying to take away from the joy that Villa supporters and Spurs supporters and, you know, maybe Crystal Palace supporters will feel next week. but it does just feel a little bit not quite right that the Premier League is sort of bullying, our league is sort of bullying every European competition. Right. Well, I guess the change has really come since Champions League side stopped third-place group teams from the Champions League stopped dropping in to this competition.

10:10If it feels routine for anybody who's not a Villa fan, I think for Villains, it's quite the opposite. One man who was actually at the Besiktas Park in Istanbul on Wednesday night was Jacob Tanswell and he joins us now to give us a little bit of the flavour of what they're feeling.

10:28Jacob, what did last night mean to Villa supporters? I think it meant everything really in short, James, because it's been 30 years since a major trophy, 44 years since the European final and trophy. And it did feel like time was ticking on this era, almost because the players are getting older. We don't know how long Emery's still going to be there for. And this felt the moment against, let's be honest, favourable position to win something. And I felt if this wasn't the time, then it probably will never be. And they would always leave that sense of regret. So it's really important they got the job done.

11:04It was a magnificent run to the final, the 4-1 victory against Forest and the demolition of Liverpool. And now this, the goals here, were these among, especially given the occasion, the best goals you've seen live? Villa have been scoring these goals all season. I'm sure you guys have had discussions about the underlying metrics and how they keep defying them. They don't really create too much of high quality chances. But what they do is they have a goal of the season competition basically every week between each other. Whether it's Buendia or Morgan Rodgers, they score a lot of goals from outside the box.

11:36And although you can say, OK, it's not sustainable, they've shown that it's sustainable for large periods of the season. But also they've just got some brilliant ball strikes and technique. and you see, you know, Uri Tillemans, right? The volley in a high-pressure situation to pull that off is fantastic. It's all about Austin McPhilis at Peace Coach putting these players in good positions outside the box where he can really get his best ball strikers on it. Non-Villa supporters might have lost track a little bit among the many highs and lows of this season. Just what a campaign it's been for Villa.

12:07Yeah, it's been turbulent. This has probably been, performance-wise, maybe the worst under Emory and it's probably had the most lows as well. They've not been consistent in the league. It's been very wild, actually. They started the season badly, didn't win in five league games. They were the last team in England's top seven divisions without a goal. Then they went on this phenomenal run where they won 11 straight in all competitions. And then since the turn of the year, it's kind of plateaued again, but they had enough of a safety blanket over the other teams in Premier League to get over the line.

12:39So it's been a great season, and more so for the resilience and character of the players to just get over the line more than the actual quality and free-flowing nature. Well, it ends on the highest note possible. Returning Thursday for a trophy parade in Birmingham, you've got Champions League and Champions League money, importantly, for Villa next season. You've got Arsenal or Paris Saint-Germain in the Super Cup as well, which is exciting. What are the prospects now for Villa? I think, and Matty Cash and other players were talking about this last night, that they were saying that this could be a spring ball because they've shown that they can get over the line now.

13:17They've shown that they can win. It's still going to be difficult in the summer, James. There's still going to be financial restrictions. They're still likely to sell Morgan Rodgers. They're still going to have to, like I say, adapt to the restrictions while they see other rivals strengthening even more. But for the last two years, really, they've been under this, or in this straight jacket and they've been able to overcome it. So for Villa, they've got over the line. They don't have the pressure on the monkey on the back of potentially not winning a trophy. They've now done that. It's now all about how far can they really push this Emery era?

13:50Can it be a third place finish, which is something that he stated he wants to do at some point. Okay. Well, for now, a final thought on Wednesday between the game and the celebrations after they're in Istanbul. what's the standout memory you'll take away with you? I think it's in the mix zone afterwards for me anyway all the players coming through they're dancing with the loud stereo speakers and all with beers and Emery as well just looking completely racked and we never see that you always see him very uptight he goes straight down the tunnel usually the fact that you see him getting the bumps Emery Martinez having him on his shoulders this felt like the one time that he would really let his hair down so to speak That's probably the stand-up memories.

14:37Yeah, possibly some use of industrial strength solvents there to get that Emery hair down. Charlie, I think you wanted to say about this. Yeah, well, I just think this is why, and I called this out at the time, there was this quite amusing lurch that went on from... And this is slightly different because it's Champions League, but you know all the English teams did really well in the Champions League group phase including Spurs who were dreadful in the league but they still got top 8 and Newcastle and Newcastle and there was this whole oh woe is us it's too easy then there were a couple of bad last 16 results for the English teams and then it lurched to we're knackered they can't move they can't compete with other teams because the Premier League is too physical and now we're back to it's embarrassingly easy and I just and like it's the fatigue version of common sense or consistency but it's like and I said at the time I think the truth is somewhere in the middle.

15:29I think it is different. I mean, basically what you have in the Champions League, what keeps it fairly balanced is you've got the team, the Premier League has these ludicrous financial advantages and other advantages, but then PSG and Bayern, who also have loads of money, but they also have the, their league is far less competitive. So that seems to kind of balance out and keep the Champions League competitive. Obviously the challenge is here, you're talking about the kind of upper mid table and clearly the Premier League is just so much better. And as you say, you couldn't even go down as far as Spurs and United who were fighting renegade, or not fighting renegade, but that low last season.

16:04I think it's most obvious in the Conference League as well, which was obviously designed for smaller clubs. Yeah, and Chelsea winning that last season. Well, as it stands, qualifying for the Conference League next season is Chelsea. And in words of Brassai, that's the one thing we didn't want to happen. I mean, last time they were in it, they didn't even play the first team in the league stage. So, yeah. Well, let's see. They are currently level on points with Brentford and only one point ahead of Sunderland, who they will be facing this weekend. I'll fix your computer. Jay. I just wanted to say one more thing about Buendia because I think some people probably don't fully appreciate his story over the last couple of years.

16:44But I think it was on the eve of the 23-24 season, he does his ACL and he's basically out for the entire season. last year he goes on loan to buy Leverkusen barely starts, barely plays I think maybe 11 Bundesliga appearances and so I guess his future was a little bit in question last summer but then he's sort of become a very integral part of the side again and I think the goal that he scored last night sort of underlines it's been quite a remarkable turnaround for him so hats off to him and it sort of shows that you can come back from quite serious injuries and you sometimes need a little bit of time to get back to your previous form, but fair play to him for doing that.

17:21Yeah, and I also enjoyed Norwich tweeting the official account about him. I quite like it when clubs just celebrate players that used to play for him quite a long time. Fair enough. Just wholesome stuff. They play their part. Also, I should say, even with those advantages, how often have we seen English teams make a mess of it in Europe, and we say, well, they got outsmarted, they weren't tactically shrewd enough, and clearly Emery is tactically smart enough. He's won this competition so many times. Five times now, Charlie. And each time with a club that includes the word Villa in their name. So Villarreal Aston Villa.

17:56He's won as many European trophies as Manchester United now. Wow. Pretty impressive. So he's only lost one Europa League final. That's correct. I won't remember. Arsenal against Chelsea. I mean, it is extraordinary that he does his record in this competition. But I mean, he had that good semi-final on the Champions League, didn't he, with Villarreal in 2022. but quarter finals I think was it semis I think yeah they're not buying out in the quarters and then play Liverpool in the semis it's strange how someone like Antonio Conte just can't deal with European football and Emory just seems custom built for it one final final thing but Emiliano Martinez told ESPN Argentina after the game that he played with a broken finger yes Jacob mentioned this and thank you for bringing it up in the warm up as he often seems to do he picked up an injury and I'm not sure if any of you have broken your finger ever can't say I have yeah I have Yeah, and I certainly wouldn't be wanting to face...

18:49How many actual shots did he face? Two. Two? Yeah. Okay. And also, modern goalkeeping gloves are so stiff. Are they? Yeah, I reckon you put it right. I'm pretty certain he says in the quotes that the two saves he did make, the ball went in the opposite direction that he was planning to put it. Yeah, they did look a little bit wayward, but, you know, another trophy. There you go. put that next to his World Cup which I'm sure he has on his mantelpiece very good Villa win the Europa League next Wednesday Crystal Palace in Leipzig will take on Rayo Vallecano for the Conference League final and then the following Saturday three days later it is Arsenal against PSG in Budapest very good anyway I just want to ask how often if ever Duncan you may know this listeners might has a team back when it was, I mean, presumably no one's done the clean sweep since the Conference League, but back when it was the Cup Winners' Cup, has a country done one or three?

19:51Possibly England might have done in the 70s, but I don't think so. But it's worth looking up. It's a quiz question for everyone on their bank holiday weekend barbecue. Perhaps we'll have the answer at the end of today's show. Anyway, Wednesday night may have brought back memories for Tottenham fans of their night in the Europa League final a year ago. With 12 months on, they are facing an even bigger game this weekend, says manager Roberto Di Zerbi. We'll be talking about that and Premier League matchday 38 next.

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21:27I'm Jake Stouck, co-founder and CEO of Serval. We built Serval to automate the IT work that slows companies down. Onboarding, password resets, access to applications, my laptop stopped working. While employees wait for help, their real work is put on hold. IT desperately wants to automate this work, and that's why they need Serval. You just tell Serval what you want to automate in plain English, and it's built. No drag-and-drop workflows, no expensive consultants. Employees get unblocked, and IT teams go from drowning in tickets to building what actually matters. With Serval, IT becomes the AI engine powering the entire company.

22:06This is a new way to run IT. We guarantee you'll automate 50 % of all tickets and we'll prove it to you in a free four-week pilot. Go to serval.com slash ACAST. That's S-E-R-V-A-L dot com slash ACAST.

22:33This is the Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. The Athletic is the only place you can read articles by Daniel Taylor, Amy Lawrence, Phil Hay, James Pearce, Oli Kay and the very best football writers around. Premier League match day 38 is the season finale. Ten games at 4pm on Sunday with one big question still to be decided. Is it Spurs or West Ham who will be waking up on Monday morning to the nightmare scenario, life in the championship?

23:04Spurs lose to bitter local rivals QPR. Not ideal, says caretaker boss Tim Sherwood. Spurs playoff hopes take a tumble away to Lincoln. Not ideal, says Spurs caretaker boss Ryan Mason. Danny Dyer in tears after 4-3 loss to Millwall. More bubbles than fans at kick-off. Hammer's relegation confirmed after defeat at the Tough Sheets Community Stadium.

23:30Wow, it's chilling, isn't it? Spurs two points clear of West Ham. Spurs are going to be OK as long as West Ham don't beat Leeds at the London Stadium. And Spurs pick up any kind of point against Everton. Jay, you're going along to Tottenham Everton. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So David Moyes can't get his current side into Europe, but he can keep his former side or help keep his former side up. Yeah, for Spurs, this is sort of the worst outcome that has gone down to the final day of the season because they've just got such an awful record at home. And I think that stadium is going to be incredibly tense from the very first minute.

24:13and any sort of whisper going through the crowd that West Ham have maybe scored is just going to make everybody feel on edge. Spurs beat Everton in October. Go on, sorry. No, I mean, what you're going to say is probably going to be much more relevant. No, I think you were going to say about they were third at the time, right? They got to third in the table at the time. That was really seen as, I don't want to say a statement, which is under Thomas Frank, because that would be a stretch, but they sort of beat Everton on set pieces. Mickey van der Ven score twice. I believe they were the first away team to win at the Hill Dickinson Stadium as well.

24:48So there was this sense of we're building momentum. I'm pretty certain that game was in October. And then everything unraveled in November because they lost to Chelsea at home, the 1-0 game where that actually was 0.05. Lose for one to Arsenal when Eze scores the hat-trick. And then they were 2-0 down after five minutes against Fulham. So they just never recovered from that point. The last moment of the season where maybe there was some semblance of happiness in the Spurs world was maybe that October game at the Hill Dickinson Stadium. When they were top three in the Premier League, now very much avoiding bottom three is the issue.

25:20They've only won four of the 28 matches in the Premier League since then. They don't need to win, though, on Sunday, particularly... But De Zerbi was asked about this on Monday. And he said, I don't want anybody to think a draw is fine. We have to go in with the mentality of... Right. Baby steps, though. I mean, they're playing at home. Yeah, yeah, you're right. They drew their last game at home, to be fair. There you go. And a draw would do it, whatever happens with West Ham and Leeds, given the goal difference? Well, unless, yeah, there's a ludicrous swing. I mean, yeah. Yes. What's the difference in goal difference?

25:56Let's just check. I think it's 10, 11, 13. Spurs run minus 10 and West Ham run minus 22. 12 goals. So Spurs draw and West Ham win by 13. Or 12. 12, I think they'd get it on girls' scores. By that point, yeah, you'd imagine. Imagine if they won 11 now. I should add, because I was talking to our colleague Jack Pitbrook about this the other day, but Spurs' biggest problem at this point in time, there are many, is that injuries just mean the complete lack of attacking depth. It means that De Zerbe has to rely on Randall Kolomorani, who is woefully out of form, has been all season. Richarlison, who gets scrappy goals, but the rest of his play is maybe lacking and doesn't help Spurs control games.

26:46The most frustrating player, I think, the other night, and probably the game before as well, no? I think you could argue that. It's just sometimes his touch is very heavy and it sort of slows moves down or he makes the wrong pass. And then finally you've got, you know, 21-year-old Matisse Tell, who is very up and down, but does try to make things happen. And when I was at Stamford Bridge and after the game, Callum McFarlane said he knew that in the final 20 minutes, Spurs would sort of kick on a little bit more because of the tight turnaround between the FA Cup final, because of the desperation of the situation Spurs are in.

27:15But the three changes that the Zerbi made were Pape Sarr, who's barely played this season and I think tailed off quite significantly in the last 12 months or so. Jed Spence replaced Destiny Adoggett, left back and James Madison. Now, undoubtedly, Madison lifts the fan base. He lifts his teammates, nearly scored. nearly got a penalty against Leeds in the game before but he is coming off the back of basically a year out with two ACL injuries and you can see that there are in certain moments, especially in Jules he's never been the greatest at that and when you've been out for a year you're lacking that physical sharpness so Spurs basically need to score in the first 60 minutes before the players become knackered because after that they just don't really have good enough options to change it and the players they've started are knackered by that point So even if it's going well in the 60th minute...

28:05And it's 0-0. I mean, it makes sense, right? It's an NFL ground. You've got to do it in the first 60. It won't matter, though, for all to deserve his caution, if West Ham don't beat Leeds. So will they lead to our eight games unbeaten who have drawn nine of their last 11 games away from home, which they are this weekend at the London Stadium? What do you think? I think that West Ham have been a little unlucky to have no points from the last three games I said this last week before they played Newcastle that against Brentford and certainly against Brentford 3-0 was a very flattering scoreline to Brentford West Ham could easily have got something from that game obviously then Arsenal was on a knife edge and then last week I mean they were really bad they started really badly but they created loads of chances and just couldn't take them so I do wonder if this is the day when some of those kind of marginals do go their way but obviously the other way of looking at that is they're in really bad form and maybe they're just at that point where they're sort of doomed and Leeds are in quite a nice position they've got nothing to play for they're buoyant, they've had a great season they went in against Spurs a couple of weeks ago having gone behind they came into that game really well and could easily have won were it not for that amazing Kinski save Do you know what Desirby said after that game?

29:28He said, I'm sure Leeds will play the same way against West Ham. Just a subtle mind game. Very Fergie in 96. They have played West Ham recently. It was in the FA Cup quarterfinal, a remarkable game, which you may recall saw Leeds take a 2-0 lead. Floods of West Ham supporters make their way for the exits, many of whom remained locked out of the stadium then when West Ham bravely came back into it. Eventually the game ending up tied and Leeds going through on penalties, It's not a scenario that will happen this weekend. Sadly, it'll be fun. If we brainstorm outcomes, what seems possibly likely and slightly hilarious is that Spurs do contrive to lose to Everton, but West Ham can't find a way past Leeds.

30:12They know that Spurs are 2-0 down to Everton, but then West Ham are piling on the pressure. For the neutral, that would be good, right? You've hit the nail on the head because the last few days I've been thinking what would happen it reminds me of the Cricket World Cup when England won in the Super Over it gives me that kind of vibe for one of West Ham and Spurs it really will be Super Over on Sunday so nice last two teams to finish 18th in the Premier League both were relegated from the Championship the following season dun dun dun that's Luton and Leicester of course crikey which is going to be your main screen on Sunday?

30:55Well, my main screen will be the... Charlie? I don't know. I'll be at Ron and Garros. Oh, of course. But I will... I might, if I can, double screen on the computer while watching whatever I'm watching. I mean, I don't know what... It might... Well, as Duncan says... Do you bosses know that you pay this little attention to games as a theater? As Duncan says, it might depend on what... It might feel quite quickly that one game is more consequential than the other. So true. Because I'm annoying, I might pick the game that has least riding on it. Okay. Is it Burnley Wolves? I think that could be quite funny.

31:35Well, that's the battle to avoid. Let's call it the who-will-finish-lastico. Yeah. Yeah. The battle to avoid being 20th in the Premier League, which, as Daniel Storey was pointing out on Tuesday night, carries each place in the table, carries an extra 2. What was he said? 6 million or something? I think it could be up to$3 million this year. Wow. So, you know, that would make a difference on your championship budget next season. Anyway, those are two... I could pay for them spies. Indeed. Indeed. Well, other games are going on this weekend. You mentioned one of them. We'll touch on the fixtures that are going on elsewhere next.

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35:23You're listening to The Totally Football Show with James Richardson. Now we do four times a week. Keep up to date with us on Insta and enjoy us in glorious Technicolor on YouTube at The Totally Show. So what else is going on this weekend? Here's what we know with 90 minutes to play. Arsenal are champions, although they don't like to talk about it. Man City, Man United and Aston Villa are in the Champions League places with them. Liverpool are pretty much certain of fifth place. They're three points clear of the team in sixth with a plus six advantage on goals. So it's not impossible that they slip, but a pretty comfortable margin there.

36:03The team in sixth, by the way, are, of course, Bournemouth, who have locked up a European place for next season. They don't know yet whether it's Europa League or Champions League, if they do manage to get into the top five, or if Aston Villa, having now won the Europa League, fall to fifth behind Liverpool in the table, in which case sixth will take you into the Champions League. Which feels sort of doable, right? Because Villa, I imagine, might be fatigued. Right. And City will want to put on a... So Villa plays City at the Etihad in Pep Guardiola's last game. Yeah, that's got, you know... Well, Sir Alex's last game.

36:39What was that, 5-5 with West Brom? Yeah, but that was at the Hawthorne, so there was altitude and all that. Wind. Yeah. So, yeah, Bournemouth will need a favour from City, who they just denied winning the title. And Liverpool got a favour from Erling Haaland, who's probably the most decisive goal of the season in the Premier League. Obviously, that late equaliser sort of saved Liverpool, I think. So if City beat Villa and Liverpool beat Brentford, then Liverpool go fourth, Villa are fifth, and the sixth place side get into the Champions League. But there's an even more fun permutation. Let's hear it, Duncan.

37:12So Bournemouth win 5-0. Yes. Liverpool lose 1-0 to Brentford. So Bournemouth, who are playing Forest, nothing to play for. Yeah. They win 5-0. Yeah, cut loose. Iriola's football at its peak. In his farewell game. Yeah. Right. So they do that. What do Liverpool do? They're struggling under slot. They really are. Right. Then they lose one nil to up-and-coming Brentford. Right. Keith Andrews, former set-piece coach. Right. What happens then is Liverpool and Bournemouth finish level on points. Yes. Goals scored and goals conceded and obviously goal difference. So then it goes to head-to-head, which they both won one game each.

37:52Right. And then it apparently, due to Premier League rules, it goes to away goals scored. Yes. And they both scored two. No. So then, according to the rulebook, it's a play-off. Well, rules are rules, Daniel. 39th game, here we come. So what we're looking for then is a 1-0 win for Brentford at Liverpool and a 5-0 win for Bournemouth at Forest. I mean, you know, it's probably not going to happen, but if it's something to look like it might happen, tune in. Well, yeah. As Liverpool drop out. But from what we said before, is there a world where Bournemouth lose this weekend but still qualify for the Champions League if Liverpool win and Aston Villa lose?

38:33Yes, they need to stay sixth, which requires Bournemouth. If Bournemouth lose, they need Brighton not to win. There was an even better scenario where Brentford could have been the team in sixth and that would have benefited them to lose to Liverpool. But that hasn't returned to place. I'm getting permutation fatigue. Let me say that Bournemouth are three points ahead of the team in seventh, so reasonably secure of sixth spot. The team in seventh is Brighton. Who do have a bad goal difference. Right. They have a one-point lead, Brighton do, over the team in eighth place, who are, as you mentioned earlier, Chelsea.

39:05But Brentford are there too with the same points as Chelsea. And Sunderland are only one point further back. So you have four teams, essentially. Only two points apart, which are Brighton, Chelsea, Brentford and Sunderland, and two European places. And what happens if Palace win the conference league? Oh, my goodness. Does that open up another? Leeds bot no there was a scenario whereby the ninth team in the Premier League but is that not gone that's gone now good was that an FA Cup thing of Chelsea but then weren't in it don't worry we'll move on it would be easy just to put the whole Premier League in Europe and we'll just get on with it ok so to sum up then six teams could get into the Champions League Bournemouth could end up in fifth place or in a play-off Brighton could snatch sixth place from them if they win and Bournemouth lose and you've got Chelsea and Brentford and Sandler all in the mix for your Europa and Conference Leagues.

39:57What a final day. All of this while West Ham and Spurs' relegation battle are going on on the other side. Good Lord. Loads of farewells as well. I mean, the other things of significance here, Pep's final game, and there you go, Ola's final game for Bournemouth, Oliver Glasner's final game at home for Palace. Of course, they've got the Conference League final coming up. Salah? If he's there, yeah. Mo Salah. Yeah. Will he get picked? I don't know. I mean, that's been a subject of much debate as to whether Slott kind of has had enough. If he scores five own goals, I'm going to have a few questions.

40:38Would you pick him?

40:42Probably. I mean, the fact that he's going as well, you know, like a power play against a guy who's going, feels like you've got a lot to lose. With the other players, players that you might be working with next season. Yeah. I mean, I guess you could argue, though, that it's a loss of authority and you need to show that. I think it would... I would feel that there would be no point in making that kind of... Essentially, gesture for my own ego, given the relationship it might give me with the remaining squad for next season. I think that's probably right. But we'll see. Also, Andy Robertson playing his final game for Liverpool.

41:18He will be second screening Spurs-Everton because, as David Ornstein reported earlier this year, that Spurs want to sign Robertson. So he will be thinking, am I going to be in the championship with Spurs? I'm not sure he'll be second screening during a game. Well, obviously it was a bit... Maybe it's all about digital watches in the 90s. I played football with someone recently who had their phone in their hand while they were playing. That is terrible. Because he'd forgotten his Apple Watch and needed to record the steps. Oh, that is pathetic. Oh, OK. They play quite well in fairness. If he's on the bench, he could have an iPad.

41:51Mm, yeah. Anywho, what else is happening this weekend? So, goodbyes, Bernardo Silva and John Stones waving goodbye to the Etihad. Thank you to Fulham for having a very inconsequential game. That's good. That's safe. Fulham have got Newcastle, which could be Marcus Silva's final game. Yeah, true. And also, it could be Eddie Howes. It's not too soon. Harry Wilson. Harry Wilson. The swimming pool could have a leak during the game. We simply don't know. Sunderland, Chelsea looks fun. That is, as it stands, a playoff for the Conference League. Yeah, I wonder what Xabi Alonso wants from that. I feel like it would be quite good for him were Chelsea not to get Europe.

42:34Quite a big advantage when so many other teams will be, and he'll have those three weeks, rather than having to heavily, I mean, well, if he does it how like Mareska did, heavily rotate and always felt like a little bit of an inconvenience for them even though they did end up winning it Was he still at Liverpool one day? The beach ball game? Maybe He left that summer He would have left a few months earlier Bournemouth and Brighton vying for sixth spot Bournemouth away at Nottingham Forest and that will be Idaeona's send off from the Cherries Meanwhile that whole Bournemouth or Brighton for sixth spot question Bournemouth, as mentioned, will be at Nottingham Forest.

43:15Brighton hosting Manchester United, which is a game which has other significance. Eh, Duncan? Yeah. Bruno Flanders is on 20 assists. No one has ever done 21. Maybe he will. I mean, obviously, this is a fixture. I think the only fixture in the Premier League where a goal has been scored after the full-time whistle. Yes. So you can't rule anything out. Indeed not. Do you want him to break the record? Yeah, I think so. Do you not? just playing devil's advocate I can't recall seeing a player approaching a record and not wanting it to happen but I guess it would be quite cool if 20 just is this free people on that number Duncan for example wakes up in a cold sweat at the thought of anyone beating Derby's points tally but I'm always very much invested in the notion of somebody taking a record and breaking it breaking new ground I think the Derby record is just so sacrosanct.

44:12But I mean, if Hull come up... It's quite weird with a record that it was not a thing at all when it was first broken. Like when Henri got that record, this was before, you know, assists, counting assists was particularly of interest to people. Did he not even know? I would say that it was around in 2003. It would have been in newspapers and stuff, yeah. But him getting 20... I don't remember that being talked about. But I think it was so early in that kind of era that it was just like, oh, because I think he got, I think it was like 22 goals and 20 assists. It was a very good season. Yeah, yeah.

44:47Arsenal should have won the league that year. They should. And he got a few on the, I think he got three assists on the last day. He got seven in the last few weeks. Yeah, so he kind of ramped it up. Well, Bruno could well do that. He's been running at a potential, an XA of around three or four, I imagine, per game. Is that a metric that you're measuring? Yeah, XA, but it wouldn't be that high. I thought he'd outperformed his XA quite a lot. Really? there is also this scenario that's been talked about if they were to get a penalty could he rather than shooting could he pass to someone now that I would be fully in favour of yeah and I think that is a very good thing to do generally also because it goes down as a penalty mess which is really funny when Suarez did it for Messi and it was like in all the sort of automated text commentary it was like Luis Suarez misses the penalty Luis Suarez assists Lionel Messi goal it was like yeah well for all the FPL heads that would because do you get sort of penalised for missed penalties you do you do get penalties for a missed penalty There you go.

45:39But then you get the assist. But then you get the assist. Yeah, it doesn't count as much, though. Yeah. Loads of subplots. This could be the best final day ever. Do you reckon? Well, I think maybe not ever, but the last few seasons have been pretty turgid on the last day. Whereas it feels like there's little storylines emerging all over the place. Yeah, it's going to be a lot to take in. Of course, we're going to be here on Sunday night with the final verdict on Premier League 25-26. We're not done today, though, because Duncan's got the answer to the question we posed earlier on, I think. But also, we should mention the game taking place on Saturday, which, after the disciplinary committee and the appeal against the verdict to the disciplinary committee, will be at 3.30 at Wembley on Saturday afternoon, Hull against Middlesbrough.

46:31This is an hour earlier than it was originally scheduled when it was Saints against Hull. Why is that? Time zones. I've heard it's, I mean, I don't know if this is true, but I did hear that if you want to void tickets, which obviously you have to do with Southampton fans, it's easier to do if you change your kick-off time. Okay, but not half an hour. But I don't know if that's true. Is it something to do with the distance? Maybe it's travel distance. You know, trains home. But if one, you're right, because Middlesbrough is a lot further than Southampton from Wembley. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, empirically so.

47:00Or boats or roads. Yeah. Yeah. A reprieve for Borough. And often in this kind of scenario, it's them. It's the team that has somehow. Second life. Yeah. That ends up taking the big prize. And what a prize it is, Charlie. Yeah. I mean, just an incredible situation. And for the I mean, I wonder I know that when Middlesbrough lost, you know, they were still saying we're going to keep training. we're going to keep focusing as if we are going to play it but I wonder the extent to which the players were able to still do that or whether they thought, we'll go through the motions but this probably isn't going to happen.

47:38And then all of a sudden they've got a Wembley final. Equally Hull are upset because they've spent four days preparing for Southampton and now they have to send a fresh batch of interns out to look at what Borough are doing. I hope they get a refund, yeah. I hope so. Borough finished fifth in the championship, Hull sixth. Middlesbrough will be without their second top scorer Tommy Conway, poor chap, who suffered an injury against Saints Fell out of a tree No, in the game against Saints and no life he made it ruled him out of the World Cup for Scotland That's so miserable at this time of year when you see players pick up injuries often not that significant and yet with the World Cup on the doorstep a prize that you've waited years for vanishes Crikey In my mind, Middlesbrough had spent a lot of the season sort of fighting towards the top end and sort of faded away towards the end.

48:29But their goal difference is plus 25 and Hull's is only plus four. And basically that comes down to Millersboro having a far better defence. Well, on expected points, Hull finished 23rd out of 24. Really? Yeah, you've seen this in the day. And I've seen a lot since of like, they would be a historically bad team. Yeah, which is why I mentioned the Derby record shaking slightly. But do you remember when they last came up and there was that famous picture of the pre-season game where they had like six players and they were in similar disarray, it seemed. And they did get relegated. There's an equivalent example, I think, when Huddersfield came up to Premier League, they had a negative goal difference.

49:06And they stayed up. So, you know. But yeah, I mean, it's an added bit of interest to that game, for sure. Which certainly doesn't lack for interest. 3.30 on Saturday afternoon, then. Hull against Middlesbrough. Which team will be back in London next season playing at the likes of the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium and which team will get promotion. We'll find out this weekend. And as mentioned, we'll be here on Sunday evening. To round it all up, Duncan, though, we asked, or you asked earlier on, has a nation ever had a clean sweep? Charlie, you asked earlier on, has a nation ever had a clean sweep of the European Cup competitions?

49:47When it's been three, yeah. Has it happened then? It has happened once. Once. Yeah. Do you want... I could give you the country, I could give you the year. How do you want to proceed here? Or you could just guess. Give us the year and we guess the country? It was a season that culminated in a World Cup being held in Italy. Oh, 1990. 1989 and 1990. Yeah, correct. So, well, the 1990 European Cup was the... Oh, no, Barcelona was the next year, wasn't it? So that was Milan, wasn't it? I believe so. So then Italy won all three that year. Yeah. Wow. So the UEFA Cup would have been won by Juventus or something.

50:32Against Fiorentina in an all-Italian final. Oh, my goodness. And that was the build-up to the Roberto Baggio transfer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is why there were three days of rioting on the streets in Florence. And? Fiery town. So who won the Cup Winners' Cup? The big Anderlecht. they had a nice kit. Sampdoria? Correct. Did they? Yeah. So Italy had an all-Italian UEFA Cup final and won the European Cup and won the Cup-on-Less Cup and then hosted the World Cup. That was a good year for Italian football. Yeah. So around that, I mean, that period is mad. From 1989 to 1998, you had only one season when an Italian side didn't make the European Cup or Champions League final.

51:18just mental Jay sorry just completely unrelated to our previous conversation but it's just I'm just quickly scanning something on X and it said that Jalen Sanchez has been in three European finals in three seasons in three different competitions but none of them have been for his parent club Man United Champions League with Dortmund Conference League with Chelsea and then Europa League with Aston Villa that's extraordinary isn't it that's good that's one to bank for the next quiz you're welcome well we'll be back on Sunday then for our last day of the Premier League special mash up many thanks Charlie for being with us again today have a great time in Paris thank you very much with your various screens Duncan many thanks to you Jay thank you for being with us today what have you got planned Spurs apart from Spurs Everton I might watch Devil Wears Prada 2 tomorrow night ok not seen the first one but really do I need to do I need to do some homework Have you not seen it?

52:17Not seen it. Not seen it? No, I haven't seen it. My daughter saw it, said it was good. OK. There you go. Excellent. Whatever you're up to this weekend, listener, do enjoy yourself and join us, guessing around about 7, 7.30 on Sunday evening as we live record an outtaktastic edition of the Totally Football Show for your podcast enjoyment thereafter. For now, from all of us here, though, it's goodbye.

52:48you've been listening to the totally football show part of the athletic fc podcast network for other great podcasts just like this one including the athletic fc and our dedicated club podcasts search for the athletic in all the usual places we're also at the totally show on insta and at the totally show on youtube the totally football show is an athletic media company production.

53:14The Athletic FC.

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