Will Slot’s cup gamble pay off against Villa? Will Spurs v Chelsea be crazy again?

0:00The Athletic FC

0:30so many questions in this Totally Football Show

0:39It's Thursday the 30th of October Hey Jay Jay Harris it's Halloween Oh yeah it is Yeah I forgot about that Yeah Trick or treat It was a trick for Spurs last night Oh nicely done with the football Yeah Right You're done with that Charlie Echo Show is here too Will you be going out searching for candy? Tomorrow? Is it tomorrow? Yeah. Not today? I think we're going tomorrow. Is it the 30th? Yeah. Is there another day at the other end? There is, yeah. It's not Halloween today. Spoiler alert, James. Very much tomorrow. Wow. Yeah. It's good to see that you're already in the Halloween spirit. Yeah, I might just go on my own today and just test out how people are prepared for tomorrow.

1:23There have been places round my way and indeed businesses that have been all dolled up with cobwebs and bouncy spiders and the works. And if you go out trick-or-treating the day before, people aren't going to be prepared. You can exploit that like a preparedness. You might get better quality sweets that way. You might not get anything at all is another option. Tom Williams is also here with us. Hello, James. Happy Halloween. Happy Halloween Eve. All Souls Eve Eve, essentially. Indeed. Would this also be Day of the Dead tomorrow in Mexico? It would, wouldn't it? Yes, pretty sure we're at May. Sure, I'm sure.

2:00Happy Day of the Dead if you're having Day of the Dead. November 2nd, so Sunday. Oh, right, okay, but we're in that territory. Maybe you'll listen to this on Sunday, listener. Not sure what you're up to on Monday the 23rd of March, by the way, 2026, but if you are in and around Leicester Square, then at Leicester Square Theatre that night, we'll be doing one of our Totally Football Show lives. If you'd like further details, go to leicestersquaretheatre.com or click on the link in the episode description. Monday 23rd of March. Woof. All right. Everyone had a good week? Charlie, it's been a while since we've seen you.

2:39You've been off doing tennis and that? No, I was largely touring with Football Clichés for live shows. Your live shows. Were they really successful? They were pretty successful. An eight tour. Did you play the Leicester Square Theatre? We didn't, but I have played there before with the View from the Lane Spurs podcast. Damn good venue. Great crowd. Great crowd. Knowledgeable crowd. Lovely people down there. Yes, I was there. I was touring and then I was in Wales for my dad's 70th birthday. Oh, that's nice. Great crowd there as well. Great crowd, yeah. Very knowledgeable about our family. Excellent.

3:10Jay, sorry, I'm busy here chitting and shouting, but you've got to be somewhere very, very soon. Yeah, that's fine. Where's that? I've got to go meet someone. All right. I can't know who, though. Okay. Let's talk Carabao Cup then, because there were eight games this midweek, including Liverpool losing their sixth game in seven, against Palace for the third or two and a half times this season. Into the Carabao Cup we go. This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. Pino, on his right, Pino, into the corner. It's three for Palace, with three minutes to go, and that has wrapped it right up.

3:48Jeremy Pino. Jeremy Pino there. Was this even a surprise? Not hugely. I mean, Liverpool made 10 changes, I think. Right. And have been in dismal form. I mean, I guess maybe there'd have been a hope that freshening things up and the pressure being off a little bit because this wasn't a kind of league or Champions League game. And they did actually start reasonably well. Right. Had some chances. But no, not really, given the form they're in and how good a team Palace are. Palace winning three goals to nil at Anfield. As I mentioned, they've already beat them in the league and, of course, on penalties in the Community Shield.

4:26Glas, they're going with a pretty strong team for Palace and I'm not sure what the thinking was for Slott, but most people have assumed that he's thinking, well, I've got Villa at the weekend and then Real Madrid is in the Champions League and then Man City straight after that. So here's a good opportunity to maybe rest some players. But when you're in the kind of form that they are in, Liverpool, is it a dangerous game? I mean, yeah, as the result proved. And afterwards, Slott kind of complained about the lack of depth in the Liverpool squad, making a comparison with Chelsea, notably. And I think, in fairness to Slott, Liverpool do probably have a squad that is not quite as deep as Arsenal's and Chelsea's and Manchester City's.

5:10But when you make the decision to leave literally all your senior players in the stands, play the kids with no backup on the bench, that is on you. And if he was worried about the strength of his second string, he could have just sent out a stronger team or at the very least made sure that, you know, some of the senior players are on the bench. And, you know, the decision to match up Palace's shape with this completely experimental formation, a back three of Wataru, Endo, Joe Gomez and Andy Robertson, is the kind of thing that, you know, Arsenal didn't do that when they played Palace at the weekend, albeit with their first choice 11.

5:49It's the kind of thing that City don't do. And again, I think it just, it kind of added to this impression you have that Slott isn't entirely sure what he's doing at the moment. You know, the formation changes week to week. He's kind of trying things, you know, Florian Verts is getting bumped all over the pitch. There's a 4-4-2, then it's back to the 4-2-3-1, then it's a 4-3-3. And it's just, you know, none of it's working. Yeah, I think that's a really important point. the fact that the bench was so sparse did feel a little bit like a white flag before the game had started. But I think also the big but there that people will be screaming as they listen to this is, but didn't you spend£400 million in the summer?

6:24And yes, I know there's the net spend, but we're still talking about a couple of hundred million. So to have a threadbare squad seems pretty odd after that expenditure. The£40-50 million that they didn't spend meanwhile was suiting up for the opposition in this game. I think that's crucial. You could now make a pretty good argument that they just focused on the wrong areas of their squad in the summer. Obviously, they're unfortunate that the only suffered an ACL. I'm sure he probably would have played in this game if he'd been available. But it's a risky situation where, you know, Wataru Endo is essentially your fourth-choice centre-back because Kanate's always had injury issues throughout his career.

6:57I mean, Joe Gomez has as well. So you're always pushing it pretty close when you've got those players. You're sort of relying on them to play week in, week out, and you can't really give them any rest. That dice 34 as well. Palace, though, into the quarterfinals where they'll be facing Czechoslovak. Ooh, Arsenal, who beat them just last weekend. But a fine performance here, Tom. You were watching this, I think. Yes, yeah, they were good Palace. I mean, as Charlie was saying, the first half an hour was pretty even. Neither team created very much. Liverpool gifted Palace the opener in that Daishi Kamada plays a ball into the box to Daniel Munoz.

7:30You can't quite control it. And Joe Gomez just prods it straight into Ismail Assar's path. He knocks it away. But then four minutes later, Palace scored a beautifully constructed goal. And it came from another straight vertical pass. Lovely little interchange. Reverse pass from Jeremy Pino into Saar. He tucks it away. And then, you know, second half, Liverpool, which didn't exist, didn't get close to Palace. You know, you thought at some point there'll be some kind of reaction. And there wasn't. Liverpool get a player sent off. Amaran Nalo sent off for the second time in two games in his fledgling Liverpool career.

8:03So he had an appearance last season for them against PSV in the Champions League and got sent off almost immediately for denying a goal-scoring opportunity. Said Arnestlad after that game, he will learn from this. Cut to this one. Amara Dogso Nallor, as he's nicknamed by the lads. Yeah, so he's had another lesson in last man defending. And then Pino scores the third and Palace were worthy winners. Just on Saar quickly, hasn't he scored against Liverpool in every game this season? and then it also reminded me 7 in 9 career appearances I was going to say do you remember when Liverpool were unbeaten in the league under Jurgen Klopp Watford he scored twice in that game so he's clearly just they hate to play when they see him in the line up they're terrified wow yeah sorry I now had Friedrich Frensar going through my head Jeremy Pino that was his first goal the third goal that was his first goal for Palace yeah and I think Pino's been really impressed every time I watch Palace he stands out he's very kind of busy, always kind of trying things, very creative and you sense that he has been a real positive force for Palace this season the stats haven't quite been there yet but now that he's off the mark, perhaps they will be Perhaps they will be.

9:18Elsewhere in the Carabao Cup, the Cup holders beat the Europa League holders Newcastle 2, Tottenham nothing. Anyone watch this one? I watched this one. Did you Jay? Yes. Alright, oh, Aaron Ramsdale in goal for Newcastle. Yeah, he made a really good save from Papi Matosara in the second half as well. But otherwise, he wasn't too busy. Spurs were a little bit disjointed, I think it's fair to say, in attack. But obviously, this game is all about the Spence. Spencegate or bootgate or whatever you want to call it. It's all about that. I remember, was it Roberto Carlos doing up his shoelaces instead of marking...

9:54Thierry Henry. Thierry Henry. 2006 World Cup. Yeah. This was similarly... I think he was actually pulling up his socks, Roberto Carlos. But he took an incredible amount of time to do it. And then Henri at the back post. Henri at the back post from Zidane's cross. Wasn't that the only time they combined for a goal, Zidane and Henri? Well, funny enough, that's what people said after the game. But actually, Zidane had set up Henri for another goal, I think at Euro 2000. But that wasn't counted for some reason. But I watched it and it was definitely an assist. Tom wrote the book on that. He literally did.

10:25It's one of those moments where the knowledge comes in handy. Anyway, certain to go down in the history books as well, Jed Spence doing up his laces. They did wait for him before they took the corner, but he didn't seem in any particular hurry to retake his position. So he took, I think, about 40 seconds or so to do his boot. And I was reading my colleague, Elias Burke, who was at the game last night. I was reading his piece. And what maybe was not picked up on TV, but he saw at the game, was that Spence had struggled throughout that first half with his boot anyways, even before that incident.

10:57So he clearly needed to fix it. So it takes quite a long time. And then he's jogging back into the box. And clearly the referee must have already blown the whistle. So I think Spurs were assuming, right, we're going to be allowed to get back into position. The ref's going to blow the whistle. Then the delivery is going to come in. As Spence turns his back, Tenali whips it into the box. And they score. So depends on your opinion. I think it's maybe bad sportsmanship. But the captain should probably also clarify in that moment, referee, when he's finished doing his boot or whatever, take it on your whistle, right?

11:29Everyone who plays Sunday League knows that. You scream at the ref, on your whistle. So I think there's a couple of things that went wrong for Spurs there, but I also think the actual mistake is what leads to the corner, where I think it's a Langer whips across into the box and Kinski, the second choice goalkeeper, can claim it but doesn't tell Kevin Danso. So Danso clears it out for a corner and then they're looking at each other saying, oh, you You should have told me, oh, I didn't hear you, etc. So, yes, the Spence incident is unfortunate. Maybe it's even a little bit silly. But it was such a silly error before that, which I think leads them into that situation in the first place.

12:06Kinski also, I have this game on, and Kinski also for the second goal looks a little all at sea as he tries to come out, doesn't get anywhere near it. And Valtomar just kind of pops in a very gentle header that kind of trickles into the net with him out of position. And it looks like Dancer had a bit of a go of him for that goal as well, saying I'm sort of ducking because I'm thinking you're coming and you're getting it if you don't think you're going to get it sort of shout and I'll contest the header so a couple of weeks ago a lot of Spurs fans wanted Kinski to have a chance in the team because he's definitely got a better passing range than Vacario but I think Vacario's performances against Monaco and even against Everton last week and coupled with this have sort of reminded people okay Vacario has his thoughts but he's definitely a better shot stopper and in moments like that he's the person that you want All right, and he'll be back in at the weekend.

12:53There's no illness or anything. So he wasn't in the squad. I don't think Thomas Frank explained why, but I'd expect that he was just rested. I think he also was rested in previous rounds of this competition. So, yeah. Was this a classic Nick Voltemada game? I actually don't think he had that many touches. I just think Newcastle overpowered Spurs at times. Harvey Barnes had a fantastic shot, cannon in off the bar and out. They were just on top of Spurs pretty much from the off, which is probably going to happen when you go to St. James' Park. they're going to be up for it, they're the holders, it's a really hard place to go.

13:24But I don't think Spurs helped themselves at all. There was a pass, I think, inside the first five minutes that Xavi Simons played. It was a simple cross-field switch to Jed Spence. He somehow hooks it 20 yards behind him. And that sort of sums up Simons' career at Spurs so far. There's flashes of brilliance. There was a moment in the second half where he was driving forward and he had a shot and Ramsdale tipped it over the bar. But then he'll do something really silly. and there are a couple of times where he looks so desperate to make an impression that he's maybe making the wrong decision. And then there was another really brilliantly crafted move, which ends with Bergwau putting a cross for Richarlison into the six-yard box.

14:02And it almost looks as if Richarlison pulls out of hitting it when he's like six yards away. So everything just seemed to be a little bit out of sync with Spurs. I think there were moments in that game that they looked quite good attacking, but then there were also moments where they just couldn't string two passes together. It was a bit confusing. Yeah, I mean, Richarlison wasn't great. He looked pretty off it throughout, which I imagine would have pleased Aaron Ramsdale because those two have a bit of history from North London derbies. Yeah, of course, the beef. Well, Richarlison also got booked after the goal.

14:31Yeah, after the goal, wasn't it? And it's just so needless. And, you know, Sky, after, I think it was at half-time, sort of showed what happened in the aftermath of the goal. Poro's the captain, he's going up to Chris Kavanagh, the referee. And I think Poro and maybe Brennan Johnson or Ben Senku, whoever it is tell Richarlison three or four times leave the referee alone leave the referee alone physically shut there yeah we should also say that Thomas Frank said that he thinks Chris Cavanaugh made a mistake and he got that wrong with the goal and it's very rare I think for Frank to come out and criticise a referee's decision a lot of the time he's like these things happen they even themselves out over the course of the season this is for the Jets-Benz for the Jets-Benz goal yeah on the subject of people picking up needless yellow cards how about Liam De Lappe picking up Chelsea's traditional sending off in their quite remarkable game away at Wolves.

15:22So this was the world champions taking on the only professional team in England yet to win a football match, taking a 3-0 lead, but ending up riding out a 4-3 scoreline with 10 men after Liam De Lappe has got himself sent off for, I mean, the first yellow is not particularly necessary, but the second is, I mean, that's very naughty. One of the most avoidable double yellows you will ever see in that they're both just for kind of, well, the first one is just for like a squabble on the edge of the box. They're both petulants, basically. Both petulants, really. A player who's just got back from injury, I guess trying to get into the rhythm of the game is not getting much change out of the player who's marking him.

16:02And I think he was lucky in a way to get away with only a yellow card for the first one because I think there were a couple of sort of tangles and then he kind of, you know, lashes out a little bit. And then moments later, again, challenging for a high ball, sees that Emmanuel Agbedou is going to beat him to the ball and just totally needlessly follows through with his shoulder. And Chelsea find themselves reduced to 10 men again. And it is becoming a recurring issue. And it is the kind of thing that you would expect from a very young team, perhaps with a lack of leaders on the pitch. But it's happening so recurrently that you think Marasca really needs to get to grips with it.

16:38Fifth red card of the season. and he will now miss this weekend's trip to Tottenham. And Chelsea have been crying out for him to come back because they've been playing without a centre-forward ever since he's been injured. Self-perpetuating as well, because I'm sure opposition teams are saying, you know, try and wind them up. There's a chance they'll lash out like this. And I think part of the reason Mareska was so annoyed about it and he spoke, you know, he described Dillap as selfish or something like this, you know, which is, you know, to be digging out a player, you're clearly going to be quite annoyed.

17:07And I think for him, part of his frustration must be that this he will think that it kind of reflects on him that there's a sense that what's he doing why is his team continually doing this because that tends to be where the buck stops and I guess as well you know he did get sent off himself for kind of not being able to control his emotions in a different way after the Liverpool win but yeah extremely annoying for them This happened a little bit under Arteta at Arsenal as well I know there was a lot of thing about some of the red cards they were picking up last season but I remember when he first took over there was a spell where Xhaka would get sent off in a game, Gabriel would get sent off in a game.

17:41And the criticism then was that Arsenal were also a very young side, similarly to Chelsea are now, but it was a sense that they were too emotional and that they sort of needed that emotion to get them through in games. But that's ultimately what cost them in the 22-23 season. Yeah, they didn't get that many. It was more before then that they were getting a lot of reds. But that period of time, including the 22-23 season, they were just perceived to be extremely emotional. whereas now they're just sort of... Now. What are they now, Charlie? You watched them against Brighton. Yeah. 2-0. 2-0. Double screening.

18:12Yes, I mean, this was a different kind of 2-0 to the ones... Different kind of Arsenal as well. 10 changes. Yeah, well, exactly. So they made 10 changes and they looked way more open than normal. And, you know, recently they've not even been conceding shots on target. This wasn't that kind of game. I mean, Brighton had some really good chances. Three shots on target. Wow. I mean, you know, it's an absolute avalanche. but they that doesn't also reflect that you know there was one that went wide in the first half one on one and you know there were just gaps they were basically breaking in a way that you never really see against the normal Arsenal team because they just don't leave those kinds of gaps but Brighton were able to exploit that but didn't take the chances Among the 10 changes was 15 year old Max Dallman making his first start so 15 years and 302 days on Wednesday he became the youngest ever starter for Arsenal the youngest player ever to start for a Premier League side, although, of course, this wasn't in the Premier League.

19:06No player has ever started for a Premier League club before the age of 16 before. How did he do? He was really good. I mean, it's one of those where you're slightly, you know, you don't want to just judge him by the standards of he's a 15-year-old, and so even the fact that he's kind of on the pitch is amazing. But just, if you just say, well, how did this winger do? He was really effective. I mean, some really nice touches, beat his man a few times. And, you know, they were targeting him. There were a few kind of reducers on him in a way of like, how are you going to, you know, how are you going to take this getting kicked?

19:36You know, welcome to the big league, son. But yeah, he was really impressive. Nearly won a penalty, which is one of his special skills. He's already done it in the Premier League, in fact, this season. He could have got booked for that, maybe. I mean, it was one where he kind of tries to initiate the contact with the defender. But that came after he'd absolutely left another defender in his wake. And he can do the thing that Saka can do as well. He's got a decent right foot. So he's not as predictable as some of those left-footed right wingers who you know, I mean, yes, that is what he wants to do is cut inside.

20:10But if you leave loads of space, he's perfectly happy to go on the outside. So, yeah, I mean, an incredible talent. The fact that he's starting a game against, you know, this isn't like it was Arsenal at home against a lower league team, against Brighton, who, yes, were rotated. But this was a big level up, big step up for him. And, yeah, he was really good. Excellent. Arsenal, as mentioned, will be facing Palace in the quarterfinals. Newcastle's opponents will be Fulham at St. James' Park. Fulham, who very nearly lost a fifth straight game on Tuesday night, or at least came quite close. They were playing Wickham.

20:45They went behind a goal, equalised to force a shootout where their French keeper, Benjamin Lecomte, served, I mean, I was careful with that, saved three chair boys penalties. Wow. He did, yes. I mean, he was Fulham's only summer signing for much of the transfer winner. Then they brought Kevin in from Shakhtar Danetsk right at the end. But yeah, obviously fulfilled his role as backup goalkeeper. A word also for Issa Diop, another Frenchman who scored the winning penalty in the shootout. It was one of the best penalties I think has ever been scored in the history of football. Just an absolute Kevin Pressman slash Harry Maguire rocket into the top left corner.

21:26The penalty shootout went to sudden death. Was the last Fulham penalty or the last Wiccan penalty had been missed? The first two penalties in sudden death were both missed, or rather saved, and it was like, OK, here comes the big lumbering centre-back. I wonder how he's going to get on. Absolutely smashed it top bins. Excellent. Excellent. So Fulham goes through to take on Newcastle. This will be quarterfinals week starting December 15th. Chelsea's opponents will be Cardiff City, who are the only team outside the top flight remaining in the Carabao Cup. They ended Wrexham's run on Tuesday night.

22:02The other Welsh side that was in the fourth round was Swansea City, who lost 3-1 at home to Man City. Took the lead in fine fashion through Gonzalo Franco. Woof, what a goal. But then Man City came back at them with Doku, Marmush, and hey, Ryan Cherky. And through they go. Who did Man City get in the quarterfinals? They've got Brentford. Brentford, who ended Grimsby's Fairytale Cup run by going to Cleethorpes and winning 5-0. Like most of the top flight sides, they made many changes, Brentford. Nine, in fact, but they were 3-0 up at halftime. Among those coming in was Rhys Nelson. Rhys Nelson, who was making his first start on loan from Arsenal.

22:43He's been injured and got a goal and an assist. Looked very good. Yeah, it was a good game. I was quite surprised they sort of cruised through this so easily. I was actually out on Tuesday with a friend who's a Man United fan. And I said, oh, Brentford are 4-0 up. And the look of horror on his face that they'd been knocked out by Grimsby. I think sort of an interesting subplot to this game is that Fabio Carvalho started. And there's been a few whispers this week that he's not particularly happy with his game time. He certainly, you know, joined Brentford from Liverpool last summer. He didn't play too much.

23:15I think he had shoulder surgery as well. I don't really know where he fits in their system. Damnsgaard's pretty nailed on to be the creative attacking midfielder. I don't know if he's quite a right fit further forward as an out-and-out striker, partnering Igor Thiago. So to see him score, I think, was good. He won a penalty and converted it. But it'd be interesting to see if that's sort of enough to keep him satisfied for the time being. He looked quite annoyed after scoring, didn't he? It wasn't the most effusive. It was a pointedly subdued celebration. But he's just an interesting story to keep an eye on because when he was at Fulham, he was rated really highly.

23:53I think he played loads for them in the championship when they got promoted under Marco Silva. Maybe moves to Liverpool too early. But if you remember, I think he, did he score a winner or an equaliser against Newcastle? And everyone thought, okay, you know, he's going to be a massive part of their project on the Klopp. And then since then, he's played for, I think, Leipzig on loan, Hull. He's now, obviously things are not working out at Brentford. So it's been a strange couple of years because three, four years ago, people thought he was going to be the next big thing. Well, also, I mean, you mentioned Rhys Nelson and just linking that to Max Dowman.

24:23I mean, Rhys Nelson was thought to be... He was the Max Dowman. He was, yeah. I mean, obviously not at quite such a young age, but he was the guy. 16? I think he was 17. And it was actually under Arsene Wenger that he got his debut. Against Chelsea. Against Chelsea and the Community Shield. But I mean, he then had a loan at Hoffenheim. And I believe he started Arteta's first game as manager. And, you know, he was thought to be the bright young thing. he was hyped up in a way a lot more than Saka was he came a bit before Saka but so much of this and I was just talking to Art De Roche who covers Arsenal for the Athletic and also has a big interest in the youth teams and we were just saying so much of this does come down to physicality and you can't really predict that I mean poor Reece Nelson has had so many hamstring injuries to the point where there's just a real cap on on what he can achieve you know Smith Rowe and Saka came through together and they were you know kind of on a par and then Smith Rowe his body didn't quite hold up to the rigours of Premier League football in the way that Saka has.

25:21Max Dowman, that will kind of be the decisive factor. Clearly, he's got the talent, but can he withstand what's required to be a Saka or, you know, a player at that kind of level? All right, then. Is that enough Carabao Cup? I think that's more than enough Carabao Cup. Excellent. Off we go then, because very, very shortly, we're on to Premier League Match Day 10.

25:46This is the Totally Football Show part of the Athletic FC podcast network The Athletic is the only place you can read articles by Daniel Taylor, Amy Lawrence, Phil Hay James Pearce, Olly Kay and the very best football writers around Hey, Monday night news broke that Brendan Rodgers had resigned as Celtic manager, Celtic who this weekend were beaten by Scottish Premiership leaders Hearts have been loathing 3-1 the Hoops thus falling to eight points behind runaway SPL topside hearts they were also knocked out of the Champions League in the playoff stage by Kyrat so it's not gone too well for Brendan and the break-up has been less than amicable with both sides firing shots I think you would say who's coming in?

26:32Martin O 'Neill and Sean Maloney and Sean Maloney so it's very much a back to the future for Celtic but that's very much their way. O 'Neill, whose first reign at Celtic ended 20 years ago, returning, replacing Rodgers, who himself had returned to the job, to replace Neil Lennon, who himself had returned to the job. It's an inception, but with Celtic managers. In between times, didn't Marta O 'Neill appear on this podcast? Yeah, he did. He did. Learned a lot. Now he's going to apply that to Celtic. Well, you hope so, from Celtic's point of view. You know, this is all building up so that Charlie's best friend can return to Ang Postacoglu I guess he's next in line I mean I was in Glasgow last week and all the Celtic fans were very excited about the prospect of Ang coming back because his stock is still so high there to the point where I kind of think was that a good idea why are no other managers available they can only appoint managers who've managed them before that's the rule right fair enough well O 'Neill is only in as an interim manager but he's off to a great start Tom is that right yeah 4-0 win at home to Falkirk so they've Wednesday night on Wednesday night so they have trimmed Hart's lead to six points alright because Hart's only drew I'm hearing with three of the goals who?

27:50really? Henrik Larson he's gone back with Martin O 'Neill that was part of the deal get the old gang back together nice Premier League though we'll get on to the Premier League no Saturday lunchtime fixture this weekend again another eight o 'clock too much it's the new Saturday lunchtime Can we just formally say, as a podcast, as an organisation, if I may speak on behalf of The Athletic, we are against 8 o 'clock Saturday kick-offs because no one likes them, they're terrible for fans, and will someone think about the poor, suffering football journalists too? Because they were introduced because they didn't want teams playing an away game in Europe and then playing the Saturday 12.30.

28:29So they said, OK, we'll do it Saturday evening, which makes sense. But this doesn't fit into that. Does it make sense? Well, I think that's quite a lot to ask. And that was the big thing that Klopp used to rail against. that you'd have a European... If you're going to play on the Saturday, does it help you that you're playing at 8 o 'clock at night as opposed to lunch? Supposedly it does. I think that is quite a difference, 12.30 compared to 8. But also... But this doesn't fit that, so... Weren't they doing 7 o 'clock kick-offs with this time slot originally? But they couldn't do that because then there's 5.30 on a...

28:53They could do that on a Sunday because of 4.30, but they couldn't on a Saturday. But yes, I don't understand why this one is because Liverpool played and they made 10 changes, so I think they could have... You know, they could have fitted this in and Villa didn't play midweek. All right. Anyway, 3 o 'clock on Saturday, you've got five games, none of which you can watch if you're in the UK. Palace Brentford, Forest against Man United, Burnley Arsenal, Brighton Leeds and Fulham Wolves. Ooh, that's interesting. At 5.30, Spurs against Chelsea. Woof. At 8 o 'clock, then it is Liverpool against Villa.

29:27Sunday at 2 o 'clock, West Ham face Newcastle. At 4.30 on Sunday, Man City Bournemouth. At around seven on Sunday, there's the Totally Football Show live streaming us recording our Monday morning pod. And then on Monday evening, it's top four side Sunderland hosting Everton. Woof. So many questions about this weekend. Yeah. Are Liverpool going to lose again? Can Arsenal continue their relentless march? Can Bournemouth get a statement win at the Etihad? I almost want to start there because there they are, the Cherries, second in the table. with pundits on this very podcast now making semi-ironic suggestions that they could go on to, you know, but if Bournemouth were to win this game, I think there'd be a lot fewer people chuckling, which is saying something because there were very few people chuckling in the first place.

30:16This could be like that Leicester game when they went to the Etihad and won 3-0 in February 2016. Oh my God, you're saying it, Charlie. Well, that was the game for a lot of people. They were like, holy heck, this might actually happen. That's the expression I used at the time. all right well history is not on their side because Bournemouth have never ever won at Man City they've always lost in the pep era in fact to even get a point for Bournemouth you have to go back to May 1989 that was when the game was still played at Main Road however you could equally make the case that this Bournemouth this Bournemouth is a different kettle of fish yeah they've obviously been extremely good this season and this is maybe a shootout between two of the best players in the league at the moment in Semenya and Erling Haaland.

31:02So I think it's going to be good fun to watch. Stopping Haaland feels like an important thing. Teams that have beaten City have stopped Haaland, Spurs and Villa. So I'm trying to think, who's their second top goal scorer behind Haaland in the league? It's someone on two? I can't remember who it is. Really? I'm being deadly serious. I should probably double check that. We've been saying this for weeks, haven't we? Like this new City are extremely dependent on Erling Haaland scoring goals. and he is one of the great players of his age and his scoring goals at an absurd rate. But it obviously invites the question, well, what happens when he doesn't score?

31:37And we saw what happened against Uston Villa last weekend and the answer was they lost. I was wrong. Second place is Ryan Desfoden, Nunez and Cherki all on one. Yeah. Wow. To be fair, I mean, Marmoush and Cherki have had injuries, haven't they? So, you know, you'd think them getting back to what looks like... And both scored last night. And both scored last night. Do you not remember that opening game of the season when Rinders scored that amazing goal and people are like, oh, he's going to be... I'm not saying he's a bad player, he's a good player, but he's not scored since. I think people maybe got a little bit carried away on the opening day.

32:07I think part of that is because... His role has changed. Yeah, the injury problems in midfield for City mean that, ideally speaking, Rodri starts and Rinders can play with a handbrake off and get forward, which is his natural game. But because Rodri is out, I mean, I think Guardiola probably got his starting 11 wrong against Villa, but they went out without a proper defensive midfielder and in that case, Rinders is obliged to rein himself in a little bit and that's why we're not getting peak Rinders anymore. Is Rodri available for this weekend? I think Pep was saying it sounded like it was going to be touch and go.

32:42Okay. But it is strange. I mean, you look at the two main title favourites now, you'd probably say they are City and Arsenal and City are so reliant on this one player. Arsenal, by contrast, their last nine Premier League goals have been scored by nine different players. I mean, we're talking poles apart and both kind of have their merits and their flaws, you know, because I'm sure Arsenal would love for Jokeres to have come in and scored a crazy rate. Likewise, I'm sure City would want other players chipping in. What you would say in their favour, you know, on the positive side is that Haaland, he very rarely gets injured, you know, because that would be your main worry with someone like that.

33:18You know, what on earth happens if we lose this guy to injury who we're so reliant on? And the other is that he does tend to score at a pretty crazy rate pretty consistently. He can go about a goal a game over the course of a season, which is ludicrous. That said, even if he were to do that, that would require a tailing off because he's scoring at such a mad rate at the moment. All that raw milk and tomahawk steak and honey, which I believe he eats all together. If there's a shortage of that, then they could be in real trouble. Bournemouth, looking back to the opening weekend of the season, lost at Liverpool.

33:51but they haven't been defeated since. And this Sunday will actually be one year to the day since they beat City 2-1 in the game at the Vitality, which kind of kicked off that remarkable slump that Pep's side had. Which is so reminiscent of now what's happening with Liverpool. I mean, in a similar, you know, City were, I remember that feeling like such a big thing. City have lost a game. I think it was the first time they'd lost that season. You know, they were, you know, the four-time champions and then that one defeat just set in motion, this complete collapse in a way that's kind of happened to Liverpool this season.

34:25We were talking about them, they've won every game this season, this title could be a procession and then, yeah, one defeat and it changes. Jay, you mentioned Semenyo. Their form player, arguably at the moment though, is a young Frenchman by the name of Ile Junior Kruppi. Yes, son of... Four goals in three appearances. Son of Elie Kruppi, Ivorian centre-forward, who played for Lorient and Nancy in the early noughties, another goal scorer. And yeah, who's arrived from Lorient. I think he actually signed in January, but then was loaned back to Lorient. Had a brilliant season with Lorient, was their top scorer as they got promoted the top scorer in Ligue 2.

35:01Has had to kind of bide his time with Evan Nielsen, you know, inevitably starting every game. But it's been fantastic. Came off the bench, I think, to score a fantastic equaliser at Leeds with a really kind of difficult back post volley and then started on his next two appearances, got a couple of goals against Palace in the 3-3 draw at Sellers Park. Got a really nice goal in the win at Forest last weekend. I think there's a possibility that Evan Nilsson will be back for this game. So we might see Kruppi back on the bench, but he's shown that he is a more than capable understudy. All right, who's got Bournemouth for this one then?

35:40Yeah, maybe. no a bit more the draw I think I think City will win I think this might be a little bit of the they come back down to earth game but it should be a really fun watch I mean yeah and only Haaland has scored more Premier League goals than Semenyo this season quite a lot more Haaland on 11 Semenyo on 6 joint with Igor Thiago but yeah still still 4.30 on Sunday then Man City against Bournemouth Saturday at 8 o 'clock Liverpool face Aston Villa ah s*** Here we go again. Liverpool lost four Premier League games in a row. Villa have won four Premier League games in a row. I guess this is from Slott's point of view where we see if the changes that he made, the controversial team rotation that he made midweek was worth it because if they go on and lose this one...

36:30Yeah. Dot, dot, dot. Yeah, I mean, that defeat does sort of confirm my... The Carabao Cup does seem to exist. Like, the final is great. the rest of it kind of exists just to compound existing narratives like you basically just want to lose when no one's watching you in the Carabao Cup because then it's completely forgotten about but you lose at a time like this and then it becomes this like huge thing I don't imagine it's really going to have any effect given that none of those players played but I think they what I'm saying the fact that he arrested them means that he's got players fresh for the visit of Aston Villa and of course it does add to the pressure because yes then it's like, well, what was the point?

37:09If they were going to lose anyway, he may as well go through in the Carabao. Yeah, I mean, I don't know, as you guys were saying, you know, he's been, it feels like cycling through, trying to find different solutions. The two big problems he's been facing, and he's talked about this, are the long passes and the long throws. How are Villa equipped for that kind of thing? Well, Villa can be very direct when they need to be. And I think one of Unaimri's strengths as a coach is picking the right tactics for the opponents. And we saw that against Manchester City last weekend. He identified the fact that City were going to be a little bit light in central midfield in the absence of a recognised holder midfielder, that John Stones was going to have to step out onto the right flank and do a lot of the pressing.

37:55Villa exploited that really well, kept their wide players really wide and just kept hitting City where it hurts. And Emery, as a very pragmatic coach, is not guided by anything other than the desire to win football matches. So if he sees that his opponent has a weakness, he will just go for it. In terms of long throws, Matty Cash got a decent throw in it somewhat. I feel like it might be Amadou and Nana or something like that. Yeah, one of them will have one. I can't see Luca Dean throwing the ball for that. Maybe. No. But I mean... But on the exploits, you mentioned that Bournemouth game at Liverpool earlier in the season, which Liverpool did win, but Bournemouth had so much joy kind of running in behind, could well have taken something from that game.

38:40And I imagine Villa, with the pace they have in the attacking areas, would look to do something similar and exploit that. Because that's the part, Liverpool need to tighten up defensively. But, you know, with no Gahey coming in, they do look really short. But also from the perspective of like a defensive midfielder, I mean, what would they do, play Endo or someone like that? I don't feel he's really at the level. So I don't know what Slott does to try and change it. Or does he just say, well, eventually our great attacking players will, you know, if you look at their last game against United, they could easily have scored more goals in that game.

39:11So does he just say, well, eventually our great attack will just overwhelm teams? We shall see. Villa, of course, nice and rested because they didn't have Carabao Cup this week. They got knocked out when no one was watching. Exactly. By Brentford. I was just going to say, maybe Sancho will start this game because obviously he came off the bench against City for Buendia. And then went back on the bench. And then went back on the bench. but he did play pretty well but Buendia I think is injured because he obviously came off in that game but Buendia's I think he scored two goals and two assists in his last four games and I think what maybe people haven't mentioned is that he had a pretty nasty injury and sort of disappeared for a while went on loan to Bayer Leverkusen so to come back into the team and have that that impact I think he's sort of helped them on this recent run of good form Excellent Arsenal meanwhile the leaders are at Burnley Saturday 3 o 'clock I've got that kind of muscle memory twitch going, ooh, tough fixture to the Gunners, but it really isn't.

40:05It really isn't. The Clarets haven't beaten the Gunners in a league game at Turf Moor since... 1973. December 1973, which is a long time. In football, a long time in anything, really. And this article... Christmas number one. Well, a famous one, anyway. Merry Xmas Everybody by Slade. You're calling it Xmas? I believe that's how it's written down. It is written down, but then Slade played with the spelling. But I thought that was deliberate on Slade's part. Well, they didn't kick off X-mas. No, no, I'm not suggesting they wrote X-mas. Maybe that's how they recorded it initially. I wish it could be X-mas.

40:41Guys, call me mad. Should we maybe not mention the word Christmas at some point? Well, you might be onto something with it. How's the Halloween special being derailed into the Christmas takeover? Well, Wizard's point was I wish it could be Christmas every day, and that would be the end. Anyway, that's enough of that kind of thing. This Arsenal are in no mood to give gifts or anything like that. No. No. Arsenal 2.0. 2.0. Muscular Arsenal. So you mentioned one of the remarkable stats, which is that last nine Premier League goals scored by nine different players. Eleven different players have scored for Arsenal in the league this season.

41:14But equally, they've had 11 clean sheets in 14 matches. Only three goals conceded. One shot on target for their opponents in their last three Premier League matches. Wow. Have you seen that shot on target? It's a scandal. It's basically a cross that Raya claims. And I think it's given a shot on target because Nketiah kind of nudges the ball with his head as Raya's catching it. But that's it for shots on target against in October. There'll be Arsenal fans getting hot under the collar about that on social media as we speak. I think they already have. I think they're calling for like an adjudication panel for shots on target.

41:50Well, rightly so. I mean, this conspiracy has gone on long enough. But they haven't conceded in 10 hours in all competitions. Burnley, the latest team to try their luck. They do come fresh from back-to-back wins, although Arsenal can counter that with four Premier League wins in a row. In fact, Charlie, here's another stat. Arsenal have become only the second team in English league football history to go 100 games in all competitions without conceding three goals in a match. The other team to do that was Jose Mourinho's Man United, which confuses me. Standard bearers for defensive excellence. I'm surprised he hasn't referenced that in his, like, it was one of my greatest achievements.

42:28It's a weird stat, but the kind of rider on it is that the last team to beat Arsenal, scoring three goals. Well, the last game, I believe, in which they can see three goals, Arsenal won, because I'm pretty sure it was Luton 3, Arsenal 4. Correct. Thumbs up from producer Charlie. Correct. Anyway, did you see a 4-3 this weekend at Turf 1? No, I don't. I mean, the encouraging thing I would say for Burnley is that Arsenal, I think, will have very few attacking options because they've got a lot of injuries to attacking players and a Martinelli missed yesterday. So that really does reduce their options off the bench if Burnley are able to do what they did to Liverpool and, you know, have it nil-nil until stoppage time, which I imagine would be what they will try and do.

43:15because I think that's what Arsenal have managed to do and this is largely because they've scored a lot of set-piece goals but they are missing a heck of a lot of attacking players. For most teams, if they had this number of players out, it would be a kind of a crisis that everyone was talking about or indeed if this was Arsenal last season or basically any other season. But if you think Havertz, Madweke, Odegaard, now Martinelli, and Jesus are all out, there's quite a lot of attacking options and most of those have been out pretty much all season. so yeah I mean maybe that becomes a factor but I wouldn't imagine they'd concede three which would double their tally against for the whole season alright well we'll get on to some more of the Premier League fixtures that await very shortly including the one that used to be the Premier League's craziest game

44:09you're listening to the Totally Football Show with James Richardson now with you four times a week keep up to date with us on Insta and enjoy us in glorious Technicolor on YouTube at The Totally Show. Look up Premier League's craziest fixture in the dictionary. And what does it say? It says Tottenham Chelsea. At least it has for the last two seasons, Jay. You went along last year when it was Tottenham 3, Chelsea 4. After Tottenham were 2-0 up after 10 minutes or so. Yeah. Ange Postacoglu was in charge in that game for Spurs as he was the season before when, Charlie, you went along to see Tottenham won Chelsea 4, which is the game that really, a legend was born in that.

44:52That was the game when they went down to nine men and tried to confuse Chelsea quite successfully by playing as if they had a two-man advantage. Yeah, that was the it's just who we are, mate game. That was honestly one of the craziest games I've ever been to. And it was, the term sliding doors is overused in football. And I actually think, and in general, and I actually think this in some ways wasn't a sliding doors, it was just a delaying of what was probably going to happen. How nearly did they get away with it? Well, it wasn't that they nearly got away with that because I think eventually Chelsea were going to work out that maybe if you have a second man run, you know, you can pick this lock.

45:25I mean, you had Eric Dier and Pierre-Emil Hoibier, not known for their speed, playing centre-back and close to the halfway line. And basically Chelsea eventually realized, OK, yeah, maybe just delay our runs a little bit and we're going to have a lot of joy. And sure enough, Nicholas Jackson scored. Jackson's on a hat-trick here and Jackson has Moutic for company. and Jackson keeps on going and Jackson has three big broad seven goals smile in the face of Spurs scowls it's rare you can score a hat trick and have like a bad game but he really did, he was really bad regularly referred to as like possibly the worst hat trick ever yeah I think it was like like a combined distance of 20 yards but it was like you're playing against kids or something and then you just decide to just go and score from like two yards, you know, like, well done, he's 13 kind of vibe.

46:18But no, the thing that, you know, so Spurs came into this game, 10 games played under Ange in the league, 1-8, drawn two, top of the league, they went 1-0 up and were playing amazingly. You know, it was kind of Ange ball at its zenith and then they scored a second but it was disallowed for a correct but marginal offside and there was this moment and that was at the end of this incredible passing move and Son was just offside and then then it all just went spectacularly wrong. They lost two players to injuries, got two players sent off, lost the game 4-1, then lost, then went on a run, including this one.

46:55I think they lost four out of five games and one draw in the other. And yeah, nothing was ever quite the same again. Damn. But it was, and I think there were five goals disallowed that night as well. It was the most VAR-y game. I mean, it was like every few minutes, something, there was this long, you know, long check for a red card or for a goal or something. Yeah, good goal from memory but then it's disallowed because Romero fouls someone in the build-up and then he gets sent off and Chelsea get a penalty and you're like yeah it was yeah it was disallowed but they got a penalty at the end of it or something I mean I think the maddest Premier League game ever and even by I would say maybe not a comfortable margin but a significant margin I can't think of another game that was quite like the scenario in the second half where Spurs are just standing almost in a straight line on the halfway line and challenging Chelsea to time a pass in behind and Chelsea just repeatedly keep failing to.

47:50But what's a wildest thought? Chelsea finally went 2-1 up, but then Spurs equalised, but it was disallowed from offside. And it was Eric Dier who scored this volley from a free kick coming in. And it was just so incredible. And it was not far off being onside. And if they had got something. Wasn't it also on a Monday night? Yeah. Because I feel like everybody was watching that game. Everyone was just so locked in. Whether they'd planned to at the beginning of the night and then word of mouth spread that something nuts was going on. Yeah. All right. Wow, well, you're going along this Saturday, Jay.

48:21Yes. What are the chances it's going to be that much fun? Well, it's important to point out that Spurs have a really bad home record. Yes. I think they've only won three of their last 18 games at home. They picked up one point from the last nine available. Yeah, which goes across Posta Coglu and goes across Thomas Frank. But then I was at, I was undercover on Saturday at Stamford Bridge for Chelsea Sunderland. Yes. And Chelsea were awful. The only player who stood out to me was Joss Achampong. I thought he was excellent. Very good at coming forward with the ball, was strong on the jaws. I don't think it's a surprise that Sunderland's winning goal comes when he gets taken off for tossing, who just didn't really know what to do with the long ball that was clipped over the top.

49:04and as Tom said earlier, De Lapp is needed because against Sunderland they used Mark Gouy up front, Pedro dropped back and it just looked so disjointed. There was no threat running in behind and now they're going to have to cope without De Lapp on Saturday as well. So I think this might be a slightly more sensible game because Thomas Frank, you know, Tottenham's defence has been so much better under him than it was with Posta Coglu. But ask any Spurs fan and they'll tell you that they always just conceive of a weird way to lose this game. So don't rule any type of madness out. I don't think it will be 4-1, 4-3 levels of chaos, but something odd will happen.

49:42Look forward to that then. What time is that game? I've managed to... Half five. Half five. Oh, so that's the Saturday. That's an acceptable Saturday. That's a good slot for a mad game as well. And lose bouche before the eight o 'clock game. Very nice. Very nice. Chelsea, who have been this season on a run of three defeats in four, then followed that with four wins in a row, but then followed that with defeat witnessed by Jay at home to Sunderland last weekend. All right. Well, meanwhile, what's going on? Oh, hello. Sorry, I should say Maresca, who has been quite, you know, forefright that he doesn't like long throw-ins.

50:17Oh, yeah. Versus Thomas Frank, who is arguably the poster boy of long throw-ins. So maybe that's what we should keep an eye on. If it's throw-ins you like, then why not watch Crystal Palace against Brentford, which is taking place on Saturday afternoon. Those are the two teams that are putting the most long throws into the penalty area. Who does it better? Find out Saturday afternoon at 3 at Serhers Park. Down the bottom, you've got Nottingham Forest, now 18th against Man United. West Ham, who are in 19th, host Newcastle. And Fulham, who are only one place above the bottom three, in 17th, face last place Wolves.

50:59Wolves are the only winless team in English League football. Fulham are on a four-match losing streak in the league and are currently in their lowest position in the league under Marco Silva since he came in. Wow, plenty of jeopardy there. What looks tricky is maybe West Ham against Newcastle because West Ham may not be bottom of the table, but nobody is as bad as they are at home. They yet take a single point at the London Stadium. They've already had four games as well under Nuno and have yet to win. Yeah, no discernible Nuno bounce. And it was an appointment that made sense in that post-David Moyes, West Ham have sort of tried to move away from the David Moyes model.

51:43And with initially Huren Lopetegui and then Graham Potter try and play slightly more expansive football. It feels like this is the kind of cycle that West Ham have been trapped in for about 20 years. Like find a coach who's unspectacular, generally British, homegrown, gets reasonably good results, but football's kind of boring. right, bad enough of that, let's get in some more exciting. The person who's not as exciting isn't as good at getting results. So, you know, you go back to square one. Obviously, Nuno is not a British coach, but he has quite kind of British sensibilities. But they've been awful.

52:11I mean, they were terrible at home to Brentford in their most recent home game, lost 2-0. Brentford's last goal goes in in front of a stadium that's not even, you know, a third full at that point. And it felt like a real nadir. And then they were dreadful again away at Leeds. And Nuno, you know, making these curious selection decisions, playing fullbacks on opposite flanks and, you know, various other hard to understand choices. And you kind of assume at some point, because that sort of David Moyes era DNA must still be in this group of players, he's going to find a way of bringing that out of them.

52:48But so far he has not. They've got the worst defensive record in the division. I don't know if goals from corners is important in the Premier League this season. Figures just aren't available. But they have conceded nine so far, which is far and away the most that any team has allowed. Six, in fact, is the next total behind them. So, yeah, Magpies, for their part, yet to win on the road in the Premier League this season. But they'd fancy their chances, you feel. Forrest hosting Manchester United that Saturday at 3 o 'clock. 180 minutes potentially till the Clippers come out. Yes, yeah. Forrest winless in their last eight in the Premier League.

53:32Yikes. Nuno's old side. So that's a bit of a worry. They haven't scored a single goal in 448 minutes in the league. I do think that, I mean, just looking at this, I mean, Nuno, and I thought this, you know, in relation to Ange, you absolutely need as a new manager when you're coming in, and this is pertinent to United as well, that almost like the worse the team is doing, the more it's like, wow, wow, what a job he's got to do. And I think Nuno has enough of that goodwill at West Ham. Ange didn't, and that's why he went after, you know, whatever it was, five league games. And Sean Dyche? I don't think Sean Dyche has that.

54:05I think Dyche is not in that bracket. And I think if things go as badly for him at the start as they did for Ange, then questions are going to be asked. Yes, there's a different context if he's, you know, got Nottingham Forest heritage in a way that Ange didn't, and Andrew placed a popular manager. But you saw that, you know, Amirim, I think, got a lot of that goodwill. Certainly early on at United, the worse they were, the more it was almost like, wow, what a job Amirim's got on his hands, rather than a like, shouldn't they be doing a bit better by now? Is there a scenario where Deitch gets sacked, Nuno gets sacked, and Nuno returns to the city ground in just the wildest sequence of events?

54:40I mean, Deitch at least does have that win against Porto in his first home game, which was an impressive win against high-caliber opposition, at home and I think the fact that you know he is a sort of a child of the club in a way a local lad you know ticks a lot of those boxes he's had that kind of moment of communion which I think felt like a bit of a sort of you know a washing away of the Angie era it was it was remarkable you know clearly the Postacoglu era at Forest was a complete disaster but it was remarkable the extent to which Postacoglu succeeded in transforming Forest football you looked at kind of average possession statistics while he was there.

55:17And Forrest were right up there with the most possession-focused teams in the league and Daesh will now have to unpick that. Having to start off in the league away at Bournemouth was very much less than ideal first opposition. I suspect that off the back of that Porto win, they will be a tougher proposition at home. But, I mean, in form Man United in town, so who knows? We shall see. intriguing match that one. Also, Fulham Wolves, that's 17th against 20th. And it looks a big one. It looks a big one, that for both teams. I do feel for Marco Silva, given what a great job he's done and then has a summer like this where there's so little transfer business and he's just expected to keep them punching above their weight.

56:07I think he has earned the right to have a bit more backing. Yeah, it's a big game for them. But, I mean, obviously a huge game for Wolves and you do wonder how much longer Vito Pereira is going to stagger on for. Right. It's two Portuguese managers face-to-face. We've got two Germans, of course, face-to-face in Brighton Leeds, which is Saturday, 3 o 'clock. Fabian Herzler. And, of course, your friend and mine, Daniel Farker. Yeah. There's only a point between them and the table, which I'm quite surprised by. I'm surprised by that too, Joe. Brighton are on 12 points. Leeds are on 11. Wow. Someone added that up.

56:43When you open an atlas. Squinting. You know when you open up an atlas and you go, good Lord, that's where Copenhagen is. What do you mean Denmark? Even the United Kingdom sometimes. But often. That's where Stevenage is. What other shocking facts about the table can you tell us, Jay? The fact that Norwich is north of Birmingham. What? You heard it here first. Lines of latitude are surprising. The map of the United Kingdom. places that you think are instinctively which are not as northern as you might think New York is actually Jay further south not only of London by according to what I'm reading here a long way a long way?

57:27yeah I'm embarrassed to say what it says here it says approximately 750 miles south of London is that legit or is that the AI resume answer but I do remember that New York is south of London. To ask a stupid question. According to this, everywhere in the US apart from Alaska is further south than the most southerly part of the UK. What? So are we just looking at a wrong map? I don't know if that's a really short question. It's leading. We're not reading it right. I know that famous thing about Africa is far bigger. Wow. Any cartologist will tell you. So say that again. Every state in the US apart from Alaska or including Alaska, apart from Alaska, is further south than the most southern part of England.

58:13100%. I'm looking at a map here. So like Plymouth, to pick a random English city, is more northerly than any American city. Yeah. Not just that, but look at this, Charlie. Hang on, listen. That's New York there, right? Yeah. So that's on a par with fricking Lisbon. It's south of Rome. That's what my map's saying too. Hang on. New York is south of Rome. Why is it always snowing there in the winter? In New York. In New York. Have we just broken geography or... What? Sorry, where's the... Everything you thought you knew is wrong. Where's the proof that New York is south of Rome? This map right here, baby.

58:53I feel like Columbus. Oh, right, no, but that's because they're just drawing straight lines. They're curved lines, aren't they? On the globe. Not seen from straight on them. Yeah, you're on flat-earth.com again, James. Come on. European latitudes compared with America. Here we go. Okay, New York City's latitude, which is empirical, is 40.7 degrees north. London's latitude is 51.5. Let me check Rome's. Rome's latitude. Have you got that? Yeah, 41.8. 41.9. So New York is south of Rome. Wow, listen, if you take nothing else from this podcast, yeah, it's been a poor job. Anyway, back to the football.

59:37I mean objectively Sunderland being fourth but then I think we've all clocked that and they're the one team that we haven't really talked about because they're playing Monday night hosting Everton at the Stadium of Lyon it's going to be very interesting to see what happens there three wins in four I need to remind myself of the name of the young midfielder Siddiqui that's it Noah Siddiqui for Sunderland keep an eye on him I thought he was excellent against Chelsea I think he's only 19 years old as well. I'll do that. Excellent. Monday night football then is Sunderland against Everton. Sunday night, we'll be here with Totally Football Show, rounding up everything that's happened so far at the weekend.

1:00:20That's live on our YouTube page. Or you can hear the podcast on Monday morning. Before that, just to mention that there'll also be a Totally Extra dropping on Saturday in which we're going to go and look back on the greatest tournament ever played, Euro 2000. Wow. Goals galore. And one game in which no goals were scored, which was almost the best of the lot. Anyway, that's on Saturday. For now, I think it's time to say thank you very much, Charlie Eccleshire. Thank you. Thank you, Tom Williams. Thank you. Thank you, Jay Harris. Good luck with your mysterious assignation. Say hi to Thomas Frank from Earth.

1:00:59Thank you. It was a pleasure. Many thanks to Jake and Charlie in the booth. And you, listener, we'll see you again soon for now from all of us here it's goodbye you've been listening to the Totally Football Show part of the Athletic FC podcast network for more great podcasts just like this one including the Athletic FC and our dedicated club podcasts search for The Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places we're also at the Totally Football Show on Insta and at the Totally Show on YouTube the Totally Football Show is an Athletic Media Company production

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