World Cup preview: England and the other favourites

0:00Thank you for calling the Bombas Comfort Line. Bombas make socks, slippers, tees, and underwear made with the highest quality materials. Press 1 for comfort, 2 for style, 3 for donation. You chose style. Bombas is styles for whatever you enjoy. You can run in Bombas, lounge in Bombas, dress them up, dress them down, but always give back in Bombas. Because with every item purchased, another is donated. Bombas, comfort worth calling for. Go to bombas.com slash audio and use code audio for 20 % off your first purchase. That's B-O-M-B-A-S dot com and use code audio.

0:56Thank you. Customers are watching. No chaos, no limits, just open field. Take your shot at contentful.com. This episode of the Totally Football Show is brought to you by Hotels.com. When you're booking a hotel, here's a simple question. Why wouldn't you use Hotels.com? It really is all in the name. As a member, you save up to 20 % on hundreds of thousands of hotels around the world and earn rewards on every single stay, which means the trips you're taking now help pay for the ones you're already dreaming about. And unlike some other places, there are no blackout dates, so when you want to travel, your rewards are ready to go.

1:36So whether you're following your team across North America this summer or planning a well-earned escape to make up for being glued to the football for weeks on end, make sure you book on Hotels.com and start earning rewards. Because when it comes to hotels, it's simple. Hotels.com. It's all in the name.

1:56The Athletic FC.

2:26Can they end their hex-a-hex? Portugal, he's still there, isn't he? Germany, what are they doing on this list? Big questions, big answers on the way in this Totally Football Show.

2:42Wednesday the 3rd of June, it's World Cup minus 8, everybody, as we're joined here in the studio by Nathalie Zjedra of Sky Sports. Hi, Jean-Barr. Lovely to see you, Nathalie. Great to see you. Lovely to see Lim Toomey of The Athletic. Pleasure to be back. Great. And also, Duncan Alexander of The Athletic, how are you? I am good, thank you. Excellent. You're geared up for six weeks of Mondo Bongo. Yeah, I woke up this morning and had World Cup fever. Did you? Did you? There's no cure. There isn't. But take a daily dose of totally, because what are we going to be doing, Duncan? We are going to be doing daily broadcasts, aren't we?

3:22We're doing what? Sorry, what broadcasts? We are doing daily. Yes. Podcasts. Okay, good. Yeah. Yeah, however you take your information. Yeah. The games are largely taking place in the middle of the night UK time. So in order to be able to do this, we're having to relocate to Los Angeles, unfortunately. It's the only option, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. So that'll be happening. Natalie, Duncan's got World Cup fever. What have you got? Oh, my God. Yes. I live with World Cup fever. You do? So, yes, I'm number one hype girl with the World Cup. Okay. And it's a big one. Rumal Hexa, once again. Rumal Hexa.

3:58Yeah, yeah. Whatever that means. But anyway, we'll talk about Brazil later on. Of course, we're going to talk about all the favourites, Liam. Who should we have in that category, favourites? Brazil? I mean, be polite, wouldn't it? Of course, Brazil. Argentina, you have to say, after the last World Cup. I think France. Spain, after the last Euros. They would be, I think, probably the big four for me. Right, okay. England guys come on Lim's not saying England is that a superstitious thing or are you genuinely we briefly touched on this before we started recording there's an ingrained fatalism I think when it when it comes to England and I just think you hope for the best but you prepare mentally for the worst I think it's the right thing to do I mean I remember being fully bought into the hype before the 2006 World Cup which England went into second favourites which seems a bit mad which favourites are they this time?

4:51I think the third. Third favourites? Yeah, okay. Well, top of the pile are, I think, Spain with the bookies. But also in there, and certainly featuring in today's first show, I should say, we're going to do two preview podcasts ahead of the World Cup start next Thursday. The next one will feature the hosts and dark horses and random miscellany. But in this one, we've got seven teams. England, France, Spain, Brazil, Argentina, Portugal, and because I cut and pasted the document from 2002, Germany but we're not going to start with them no no first up England this is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson part of the Athletic FC Podcast Network

5:50Roberto Baggio, the saviour of Italy throughout this tournament. He's missed it! And Brazil win the World Cup! Crikey. That was the sound of a goal in Pasadena, which proved the start point and the end point of the last time a World Cup was in the United States, Duncan. Yep. Yep, Diana Ross invented XG with that shot. So, um... The reason a penalty is not 100 % chance of scoring is because of that. And then that's followed by the final kick of the 1994 World Cup, which is Roberto Baggio's penalty miss. Not present the last time the World Cup was in the USA were England, but they're there this time.

6:33England, who, of course, finished their last World Cup with another sky penalty courtesy of Harry Kane. Liam, we're going to be asking you lots of things about your expectations of England, but Natalie, in this country, we live with the 30, the 40, the 50, that now 60 years have hurt. Does that play overseas as well? Do people have a notion of this kind of slumbering giant of a nation that's dogged by this perennial underachievement of major tournaments? Or is it just, no, that's England and that's what they do? No, I think you guys are way more negative about England than other countries. Right.

7:11I can absolutely say that because... But is it perceived as a trophy drought overseas? Wow, England still haven't won a thing. Yeah. It's 29 years of hurt, technically, since England won Le Tour Noir. So let's just put that out. It is. It is, definitely. And especially recently because of the level of talent that you guys have on the squad. Well, you could make a case for England being among the most consistent nations in the world right now with quarterfinals, semifinals at the last two World Cups, finals at both of the last two Euros as well, Liam. Yeah, they've been very consistent in terms of reaching the knockout stage.

7:48I think they've also benefited from a few what I call Southgate brackets over that time in the knockout stage. But they are a serious team, I think, more so than they have been for much of my lifetime. And the interesting thing about this tournament is I think Thomas Tuchel has been quite open about the fact that he's picked his squad in a different way to the way that I think England's squad's been picked in a lot of the past. It's not just the biggest names. It's a jigsaw of personalities. chemistry and skill sets as well I think yeah he's kind of gone England have got one world-class player really Harry Kane let's build a squad around that and I think that's the tactic and and Harry Kane staying fit is probably the key if he if he stays fit I think England could go very deep and even by his standards he's coming into this tournament really in the form of his life he's been the hub of an incredible Bayern Munich attack 61 goals this season and you compare I think the way that they've built the attack around him for England compared to two years ago where they felt like they were just trying to shoehorn every number 10 into the team and the only person looking to run in behind was Kieran Trippier from left back sometimes it's funny isn't it because like how quickly people forget but like that Euros was so bad the England games were maybe the semi against Netherlands was all right.

9:11It was just, it was so turgid and everyone had had enough. Enough. And Tuka was brought in to change that and I think you can't blame him for then doing that. And whether it works or not, we don't know, but like it is a different approach and it's, yeah, it's quite exciting to see how it plays out, I think. England were the first team from Europe to qualify for the World Cup. 11 consecutive competitive matches victorious, didn't concede a single goal in the qualifying. campaign. Natalie, would you agree that the only world-class player that England have is Harry Kane or would you name somebody else?

9:47No, I think that's pretty harsh. Go on then, who? Well, who would you have for Brazil? I would have Declan Rice. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I would have Saka. He hasn't had a brilliant season, but I would have him definitely. I mean, I find this World Cup very peculiar. And this is where England can do well, because there are factors that we didn't have in other World Cups. You have the temperatures, that is going to be a factor. And everyone's saying that regarding England, oh, England's not going to cope with the temperatures, but it's going to be a problem for everyone. You have a lot of traveling and you have the calendar, the football calendar that hasn't, it's never been busier than the past season.

10:34So if you have a team that can get scrappy wins, that can play direct like England, I mean, it's a big advantage. And I think it is a point that fans should really hold on to because not necessarily the team that plays the flashiest football will do well in this World Cup because of these peculiar circumstances. And this, I think, can play in England's favour. So true. What are you most concerned about with England, Liam? i think tuchel and i there are two separate ways that this can go well i mean you know we we mentioned before we started recording that there's potentially capello parallels to this where you have a very extremely high powered mercenary hire somewhat prickly somewhat prickly at times i mean i i generally found i covered tuchel at chelsea i generally found him very good with the media but we've got a very different impression of how he was with his players right and that's what i think could be the risk with england because you as much as he's picking his squad thinking these players have to spend six seven weeks together they also have to spend six seven weeks with him right you're referring to the capella the rustenberg experience yes yeah yes and i i don't actually know if england's base in the u.s is is quite as remote as their base in south africa in 2010 it's in kansas which is interesting because they don't play there so they're going to be flying to wherever they play but i think they wanted somewhere that was quite central um but again kansas can be very hot this time of year so i think it's as natty says it is going to be and there's an extra round as well so it's a real slog um i think yeah i think teams are going to have to use more of their squad than they probably would have done previously the thing about tuchel is i i i'm not sure there's any coach that I'd pick over him to craft a game plan to win a cup competition I think he was brilliant at that Chelsea got to the final of every cup that he coached in and within those finals to give you the best chance to win tactically I think he's absolutely elite where his problem has been in his career sometimes has been managing relationships with players occasionally with employers I mean that's not going to be as much of an issue with the FA but I think within his squad.

12:51Well, he already upset Bellingham, didn't he? That's the thing, yeah. There have already been a couple of flashpoints in his tenure so far and players have only had to deal with him for a few days a month or every couple of months. That's why I think the Arsenal core to the squad is quite key. I think if you've got Saka and Rice and Eze and maybe to a lesser extent Maduweke, but they'll bring a kind of a successful slash happy vibe, I think, to the squad, which is important. It's a Japanese diet spot. Sacco and rice. Yeah. But I also, I also, I've also heard from players who worked with Tuchel that the ones who like him really buy into him.

13:32Would it run through a brick wall for him? Yeah. Yeah, no, definitely. I think Rhys James loves him, for example. Thiago Silva. Thiago Silva has a picture with Thomas Tuchel in his living room. Really? Yeah, when he lived here in London. So, yeah, he can be.

13:50He can be a very, how do you say, I don't know. He can be a guy that people really buy into. He has the charisma. The squad numbers came out yesterday and there was a lot of hoo-ha about two things. One, the fact that Jude Bellingham has been given the number 10 shirt. Does that represent an indication of Tuchel's thinking? And the other thing was the number 11 shirt, which went to Marcus Rashford ahead of Anthony Gordon. Does that suggest that he is ahead in the picking order? Liam. Tuchel taking a passive-aggressive shot at Hansi Flick and Barcelona's recruitment. No, it'll be interesting to see.

14:29I think a lot of the time these squad numbers are more sort of personality politics, aren't they? It's the players... Like with James went for 24. Yeah, it's the players that want the most. I can imagine Bellingham speaking up loudest for the number 10 shirt and, you know, fair enough. But there aren't quite as many people who would have been fighting over that shirt as they could have been in this squad. They could have been about six or seven. But yeah, I don't know. I would actually expect Gordon to play ahead of Rashford, I think, especially now that his move's all done and settled, his future's settled.

15:02I just think he's very much a Tuchel player. Chelsea were interested in him when Tuchel was the coach. At the time, I think he was maybe looking at him to play wing-back, which I don't expect to happen at this tournament. but he's obviously developed into a very high level winger with and without the ball and without the ball I think is going to be key in this Tuchel team the way that he tends to establish things yeah and the fullbacks I mean that was the as you said earlier the big issue at the last Euros was the fullbacks were so pedestrian you know everyone was praying for Luke Shaw to get back to fitness as some sort of beacon of hope whereas I think this time Nico O 'Reilly, Rhys James two brilliant players with Liveramento again can come in I think that is key and I do think that Gordon Rashford thing is important because we need pace so that that's how the bit saka isn't the quickest kane isn't the quickest so you need people for kane to aim for when he drops deep that worked so well with raheem sterling for so long yeah and you could easily see that kind of partnership forming with a gordon with a rashford in this tournament england are in group l with croatia ghana and panama the opening game will be against croatia which is of course a rematch of the 2018 semi-final the group shouldn't prove too much of an issue or FIFA rankings it's actually the second hardest group is it?

16:20so given I remember when the draw was made in December we did a thing in the athletic where you could predict you could press a magic button and it would spit out random groups and I did that many times because it was fun and the group that actually came out it just came out with three different it drew all 12 groups And you'd be like, oh, that would be a good match. And then actually the one that came out was one of the hardest England could have got, I think. Really? Yeah. But I mean, Opta have simulated with their special supercomputer how it might work out. So if England win the group, which they probably should, they've got the highest chance of playing DR Congo in the last 32.

17:01Right. Then it would be probably Mexico in the last 16. And then? And then. Brazil in Miami. Brazil in quarterfinals in Miami. Wow. Did you know that the last men's Euros, the final of the last men's Euros, the final of the women's Euros, the final of the women's World Cup and the men's under 21 Euros, all those finals share one thing. The fact that England faced Spain in them. it's quite remarkable isn't it what a run what a remarkable run they're putting together if both nations win their groups in this world cup they will be scheduled to meet in this final as well so i guess we ought to find out a little bit more about spain

17:53this episode of the totally football show is sponsored by men's warehouse who are here to make you look and feel good no matter the occasion. From formal to casual, dressed up to dress down, suits, tuxes, sports coats, jeans, shorts, chinos, t-shirts, polos, sandals, underwear, Men's Warehouse has it all. And if you can't find what you're looking for, their in-store experts are on hand to find just the thing you need, while their on-site tailors guarantee your clothes have the right fit for your body. There are over 600 stores nationwide, so get ready to look good and feel good for anything from head to toe by visiting your local men's warehouse today.

18:28Men's Warehouse. Love the way you look.

18:36Miss calls and slow follow-ups are silent killers. That's how businesses leave money on the table without ever even realising it. And that's why today's episode of the Totally Football Show is brought to you by Quo, spelt Q-U-O, the business communication system built so you never miss a called. Quo works wherever you are, right from your phone or computer. Keep your existing number, add teammates in minutes, sync your CRM and let the call routing handle itself as you scale. But Quo isn't just a phone system, it's a smart one. AI automatically logs calls, generates summaries and flags next steps so nothing falls through the cracks.

19:08And it can even qualify leads or respond after hours so your business stays on even when you're off. Money's on the line, so always say hello with Quo. Try Quo for free, plus get 20 % off your first six months when you go to quo.com slash totally football that's q u o.com slash totally football with no spaces one last time quo.com slash totally football this episode of the totally football show is brought to you by hotels.com when you book in a hotel here's a simple question why wouldn't you use hotels.com it really is all in the name as a member you save up to 20 percent on hundreds of thousands of hotels around the world and earn rewards on every single stay which means the trips you're taking now help pay for the ones you're already dreaming about and unlike some other places there are no blackout dates so when you want to travel your rewards are ready to go so whether you're following your team across north america this summer or planning a well-earned escape to make up for being glued to the football for weeks on end make sure you book on the hotels.com and start earning rewards because when it comes to hotels It's simple.

20:17Hotels.com. It's all in the name.

20:26This is the Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network.

20:37Hey, we're joined by Paul Belus in Catalonia. Hey, Paul. How are you? Very well, thank you so much. Thank you for asking. We want to ask you, how are Spain European champions in Group H with Uruguay, Saudi Arabia and Cape Verde? But they haven't actually won a World Cup knockout game since 2010, 14 years ago. So, Paul, why is it that the bookies have Spain as favourites? I mean, basically, because they've been possibly the best national team in Europe over the past few years. I think that there's hardly any other team with the talent and the role distribution that Spain have. And that makes them big favourites.

21:24I think that if you look at the last Euros, how they basically overplayed any opponent that they faced. And the fact that this is just the same generation with all the roles reinforced and players even better, such as La Minha Mar or even Pedri. I think that there's reasons to be optimistic with this Spain side and the mood around the camp at La Roza right now is really, really good. And they really believe that this team can do something special. Paul, you mentioned La Minha Mar as one of the reasons to be optimistic. Is there cause for pessimism as well, given the state of his hamstring, the fact that he's probably going to miss, are they saying still the first two games of the campaign?

22:06So basically, over the last few days, Luis de la Fuente, the Spain national manager, has been quite optimistic with La Minna Mal, as in his progression really well. I'm not sure that he's going to be well-liked at Barcelona, because Barcelona expect him to miss 100 % the first game, the opener. That's what people close to La Minna Mal were expecting to. But De La Fuente has been saying that he looks really, really good and that he might be ready for the first game. If not, he's going to be ready for the second game. So looking at the state of things, I think that being cautious, possibly Spain will start him on the bench on the first game.

22:45And if he's not needed, he won't be playing, possibly against Cape Verde. But then in the second game, if he's needed, La Minyamal really wants to play that World Cup. It's been a target for him since the start of the season. in the last year was two years ago. It's when his player profile made basically a boom. It was boosted worldwide. And he sees in that World Cup when he arrives as one of the faces of the competition, just another chance to prove him at the big stage. And yeah, in the place that he really wants to be, which is among the best players in the world. Paul, I mentioned that stat about Spain not winning a knockout game at the World Cup since 2010.

23:232014 you came in as reigning champions went out in the group stage the next two World Cups in the last 16 on penalties on both occasions I'm guessing in all three of those occasions there were high expectations of this team but something went wrong every time do you know what it was and is there any suggestion that something similar could come across this time? Yeah, no, I think that are two very different moments or like several different moments I think that this was the end of a really successful cycle, really successful players and a difficult squad to manage, possibly. If we speak about the World Cup of 2014 and 2018, Spain also had a bit of a mess going around with managers.

24:07I remember in the Russia World Cup when Julian Lopetegui was expected to be the manager, but he was sacked just before the start of the tournament. Fernando Hierro took over. It was a bit of a mess overall. and I think that Spain has gone through this change of guard, this change of generation. Luis Enrique led that. I think that he was really unlucky on the last World Cup when he was knocked out by Morocco on the penalties. Spain did the game, in my opinion, possibly just to be a bit more lucky, but they weren't. And this change of guard has been consolidated, re-established by Luis de la Fuente and by the amount of talent that the team has.

24:45I think that Spain have been clever into trusting these young players and giving them the importance that they need and the platform to shine, which is something that I think that other national teams have still possibly not found. Paul, everything looks very positive for Spain. And we're talking about how different they are compared to previous two World Cups. So I think I represent every other country, all the other 47 nations, by asking you, what can go wrong? Where can they lose this thing? What are the weaknesses of this thing? Yeah, no, I think that things still can go wrong. There's the fact that, as we were mentioning, Lamine Jamal doesn't arrive in top form.

25:28Let's see how he settles into the tournament. Nico Williams is in the same frame. He's not in top form. Let's see how he starts on the first game. And then in defence, possibly, it's going to be the line in the team that is going to have the most changes from the Euros. Just one of the centre-backs that won the European Championship is going to be in that World Cup, which is Aymeric Laporte. And then let's see how everyone assembles in there. Pau Cubercy is most likely to be his partnership at the back. And then the right back is going to be Marcos Llorente. So I think that there's some pieces that need to be adjusted in there.

26:03But it's hard for me not to see Spain as one of the strongest contenders. I think that they will go through easily in the group stage. There's one thing that a lot of Spain fans have in mind, which is if somehow they end up qualifying as the second place in the group and Argentina end up as top of their group or the other way around, if Spain are top of the group and Argentina somehow are in the second place, they are going to face each other in the next round. So that can be a tricky game. That can be a tough scenario for Spain. And then if you're in a knockout, anything can happen in one game.

26:39But I think that the picture here is that Spain are in one of their best moments in recent history. Excellent. Argentina are in Group J alongside Algeria Austria and Jordan so you'd expect them to top that Spain with Cape Verde's mentioned Saudi Arabia and Uruguay well we'll see won't we we'll see excellent Paul best of luck for the Copa and we'll speak to you soon thank you very much just speak soon guys well that's convinced me I tried I tried guys you did they do look good although they do we didn't touch on this but they've got Three goalkeepers in the squad and they're probably going to play the worst one.

27:20Unai Simon? Surely David Rera or Jean Garcia are better, but it's a good problem to have, I suppose. Although, Rera on penalties is a bit of a question. Yeah. They won't need penalties, they're just going to win 4-0. Well, there you go. They have gone out on penalties in the last two World Cups, of course. Anyway, that's enough on Spain. Hey, Natalie, what do you say? Let's talk Brazil. This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC Podcast Network.

27:55Natalie, who are Hexer? How long have you all been who are Hexer for? Since what? 24 years. 22 years? Not that we're counting. 24 now. 24. 24 years of... Of being on the road to number six. Exactly. Like in the Euro 92. If you want to play for that. Wow, 24 years knocked out of the quarterfinal stage in four of the last five World Cups. The one that you weren't knocked out of the quarterfinal stage. Do you want to talk about that? Let's keep that one. Let's move that one on. Okay, so things, although Brazil, things at the World Cup have not gone in a Brazilian fashion, what we perceive as Brazilian fashion at all, of late.

28:36This time around, how concerned are you? I think there's a general feeling of concern. There isn't too much optimism around Brazil. The expectations are lower this time because it was such a messy cycle to 2026 with four different managers. And Ancelotti has been with the team only for a year now. The expectations are low, especially more recently with the injuries. You know, Militão, which was an important player defensively, he was going to play right back. And now that part is a bit weaker. And also a really good backup option for either Marquinhos or Gabriel. Rodrigo getting injured, Estevão as well.

29:19And there's also the Neymar drama, but we'll get into that. If I were to make a case for Brazil, and I recently was talking to a few ex-players, former players, and Roberto Carlos said something that is very simple, but it is true. First, that when expectations are low, Brazil usually perform better. And this is a conversation I've had with players several times off the record, that a lot of players have trouble in dealing with the amount of pressure of playing for Brazil. You have a manager also that can absorb a big part of that pressure in Carlo Ancelotti. But the main point that Roberto Carlos made, and it's a very straightforward one, not always the best team wins the World Cup.

30:05And it is as simple as that. Of course, there are better teams in Brazil on paper and on the pitch. It's a bit of a sorry-safe affair for Brazilians saying that. I'm sorry. Yeah, it is. It's true. Yeah, but it is true. And also, I think because the pressure is not as big and people are expecting so little from Brazil, it helps in a way. There are better teams at the World Cup. There were loads of better teams in World Cup qualifying for Brazil. You finished fifth? Yeah, fifth. And had they not expanded the tournament, that would have meant, what, a playoff with an intercontinental opponent. Wow.

30:46Lowest points tally ever in World Cup qualifying. First ever home defeat in World Cup qualifying. And amongst all that, what was it, four different managers you said they went through before Carlo came in? Yeah, four different managers. And again, if I'm making a case for Brazil, the last two times that we won the World Cup, qualifiers were a mess. We almost didn't make it. 1994, Romário came to save us. In 2002, there was also a lot of managerial changes and we almost didn't make it. And, you know, things happened. Well, so Ancelotti is now the manager. Ancelotti, who curiously enough, last time the World Cup was in America, was beaten by Brazil in the final.

31:24because he was Arrigo Sacchi's assistant manager. What do you make of the team that he's picked? You've touched on the Neymar controversy. Is that the biggest story? Or is Vinny Jr.'s form and state of mind the biggest factor? What's on your mind? Neymar is always the biggest story, but first on the team because there's the team and there's Neymar. There are a few Brazilians who don't love the 4-2-4 that Ancelotti apparently has said. They feel like they need an extra man in midfield because it would be Bruno Guimarães and Casemiro. And then you could have, in a more conservative formation, Danilo, who plays for Botafogo and has been playing really well for the national team.

32:09You can have Paquetá for a more offensive role. And obviously, you know, Neymar. But Neymar will play more centrally if he plays or when he plays, that's the case. Vinicius Jr. is a thing. because he hasn't performed for Brazil in the level that he has for Real Madrid. And there's a hope that Ancelotti can get the best out of him, but it hasn't happened yet. Rodrigo was an important player. Estevam was scoring a lot of goals under Ancelotti. So these are two big misses. You still have Mateus Cunha, who has been playing well for the national team. You have Rafinha. So like really talented players up front.

32:47And then you have the Neymar situation. So many layers, okay. The first thing is, why did Ancelotti call him? And that's the question that I've been answering the most in the past month or so. He did improve recently for Santos and physically as well, but not enough, a lot of people would say. I think there's also the fact, and Ancelotti mentioned this in a few interviews, that players really like Neymar. And that is true. The older players are friends with Neymar and the younger players have him as an idol. And we know how much Ancelotti likes to have this good vibe and cohesive group and everybody happy and getting along.

33:31So that is a factor. But also, I mean, he hasn't played for Brazil since October 2023. He had many problems recently. more recently, the cough issue, which was a bit outrageous because Santos tell us that, you know, it was an edema. An edema should take 10 days to clear. And then he goes to the national team and no, it's a second degree injury, which will probably rule him out of the group stage. If he was any other player, I would say he would get the cut. He wouldn't stay. But because it's Neymar, he's going to stay. and there is no chance that he's going to get the cut. Is there a chance that, for all these concerns, he turns out to be the Romário of this year's World Cup for Brazil?

34:21Wow. He's always been really good for Brazil in the World Cup. He's always played well for Brazil, but in the past four years, he hasn't been competitive. He's been dealing with a lot of injuries. Physically, he declined massively. Of course, there's always the talent And there's always the factor that when he is on the pitch, he's going to be a worry for opponents. But we haven't seen it properly from Neymar. And Brazil at the moment is very polarized. And this reflects on Neymar. It goes in so many layers, politics, and people are very passionate for him to go or to not go. So it is a theme.

35:05And if Neymar plays, people will be talking about it. If Neymar doesn't play, people will be talking about it. So it is a bit disruptive. But at the same time, I know that the talent is there. I don't know how much of the talent we'll be able to really see. Wow. Sorry, yeah. Natalie, I know the conversation at Chelsea was around João Pedro. You mentioned Esteval, obviously badly timed injury. Andres Santos as well, I know was probably more on the fringes. hadn't played too much for Chelsea, but could have been an option to shore up the midfield. So which of those players do you think Brazil could miss the most?

35:44Estevon has been scoring consistently and he's been playing with a lot of personality for Brazil. And just, you know, he plays with a freedom that a lot of players who have been with Brazil for a long time don't play because they carry the weight of not winning. So that would be an advantage. João Pedro, for me, was heartbreaking. I do not agree with João Pedro not going to the World Cup because if you have a player who's scoring so consistently in the most competitive league in the world, this guy needs to be in the World Cup as much as he didn't perform in a very high level at the opportunities that he had with Brazil.

36:20And that is a factor. And of course, he ended up paying for Chelsea's decline in the final part of the season. But also because Ancelotti said that he sees Neymar playing in a more central role. So if you think about your options on that area, you have Igor Thiago, who is a very, very number nine, classic nine. And you have... He's a Brentford player, so they've ticked that box. Yeah. And you have Vini Jr. who's playing as a false nine and that helps him to play closer to the goal. So João Pedro would be an extra player for that position. But I don't agree because he can play as a 10 and he's a prolific scorer.

37:05He's a very talented player. So that was really heartbreaking, honestly. How many Brentford players are there going to be at the World Cup, Duncan? well Jordan Henderson Miguel Thiago a few others I imagine not as many as Crystal Palace Crystal Palace have got more players at the World Cup than Real Madrid these are the times we're living in excellent Natalie anything else we should know about the Selesau just a note on Rayan he just scored his first goal for Brazil against Panama Brazil beat Panama 6-2 6-2 Yeah, but actually the B team performed better than... Yes, because he completely changed it for the second half.

37:50In terms of competitive matches under Ancelotti, you've had, what, eight so far? Are you now seeing what Ancelotti's Brazil looks like or is he still very much a victim of whatever the circumstances of each game are? No, no, we see it. No, that is something that we have to... And is it living up to expectations? I think it's still very early, you know. But when people look at Haim, people were actually very happy that he made it to the squad. Because, again, he's a young, talented player. He did really well in Brazil, so people relate to him. Because they watched him play in a high level in Brazil.

38:26And, you know, he's scoring and bringing, again, a bit of a Brazilian feeling. Yeah, it's like risking. He has a more risky style of play, dribbling. They're walking around at the airport, all that stuff. Yes, exactly. Exactly. All right. Great. That's Ryan of Bournemouth, by the way. Good. Last World Cup. Four Brentford players for the World Cup. Four Brentford players. Whereas Palace have, what, 10, 11? 13. 13. Oh, my God. Insane. I've seen that significantly more than Chelsea. Last World Cup, Natalie finished in the worst possible way for Brazil with Argentina winning. Ooh. Ooh. Yeah. So you weren't happy that a South American country won the last World Cup?

39:12I was actually happy. I really was. Were you? Yes, yes. No, I was covering Argentina. I followed them throughout the tournament. I was hugging Argentinians after they beat the Netherlands in the penalties. We have this thing with South Americans, you know. You do? Yeah. Really? South Americans, they kind of support. There's obviously a huge rivalry with Brazil and Argentina. There are a lot of Brazilians who would never go for Argentina. Yeah, for Argentina. But there is a camaraderie. It's a nice rivalry. I like it. I can't get my head around that at all. Really? I think you're the fairest Brazilian that we've met.

39:51No, I was really happy when Argentina won the World Cup. Such a good story. And they're the best fans. They are the best fans. They're the best fan base. Okay. Are they? Yes, they are. And they come in looking pretty good this time as well. Reigning World Cup champions, back-to-back Copa America winners, They absolutely aced qualifying, finishing nine points clear of second place Ecuador. And of course, it was they who handed Brazil that first ever home defeat in qualifying in Rio de Janeiro. Wow, Natalie, they're coming in looking good again. OK, so they cruised through qualifiers. That is absolutely true.

40:28The level of the qualifiers was not the highest because, you know, other teams were not performing at their highest. The thing with Argentina, there are a lot of question marks, actually, because after the qualifiers, their level of opponents was really low. They played Venezuela, Puerto Rico, Mauritania and Zambia. And before the World Cup, they'll play Honduras and Iceland. So there is, the Argentinians are naturally very positive with their national team, but there are a few concerns when you speak to them. we don't know the actual level they are when it comes to really big sides because they haven't been facing these really big sides there's also physicality because you have key players who are not at their best you have Romero coming off an injury Yemi Martinez broke a finger, won the Europa League but still broke a finger both fullbacks, Montiel and Molina are not at their best physically and players, some players are aging and obviously the most obvious example with being Messi.

41:33But you have Rodrigo de Paul at 32, playing in a less competitive league in the MLS. You have Paredes, who's 31, playing for Boca. And a lot of fans argue that, you know, if it wasn't for his influence in the past in the national team, he wouldn't be even in the squad for Argentina. But you also have players like Julian Alvarez, Enzo Fernandes and McAllister when physicality, age, lack of talent, no problem at all for them. So there are, you have Thiago Almada, who's now at Atletico Madrid. It is a bit of a weird thing. It's basically the same team because it's kind of a theme at the World Cup to get rid of a winning generation, obviously.

42:21but we are not absolutely sure in which level Argentina really arrives but you can never underestimate how much passion they put into playing for their country. So it will be interesting with Argentina but I'm not expecting the same Argentina that won 2022. Okay. When they did win, I think a lot of us thought that Leo Messi was going to call it a day after that, at least internationally but four years on, he's back and also he was top scorer. in South American World Cup qualifying. Admittedly, maybe other teams weren't performing at quite the level you'd expect, but he seems to be coming in as a real factor again.

43:01Yes. No, definitely. And after the qualifiers, all the friendlies were arranged, either in Argentina or in the US, thinking about him as well. And there's also the factor of, you know, apparently it's going to be his last World Cup. We bought that before, but, you know, and players really like him. They like playing for him, but at the same time, it's not a team built around Lionel Messi. And players really buy into Lionel Scaloni. And he really has a strong appeal with the group. So, yeah, I mean, with Messi, I think it's kind of the same question mark in terms of, you know, not facing really high-level opponents.

43:50But at the same time, like when they did, they won big games in the qualifiers. They trashed Brazil in Rio. And they won. They beat Brazil twice, actually. Both times they faced in qualifiers. So... They're stronger than Brazil, Natalie. Yeah, they are. They are. And they come in. You can never underestimate the fact that they finally won the World Cup again. And they come like responsibility free. That weight is off their shoulders, you know, and that can play a massive part. Although no team has retained the World Cup since Brazil in 1962. Well, France, of course, were just penalties away from doing it last time.

44:32Let's hear about Deschamps' latest attempt next.

45:04We'll be right back. Nothing gets in the way of getting the job done. Call 1-800-GRANGER, click granger.com, or just stop by. Granger, for the ones who get it done. You're a pro at running your life, at committing to your workout, at showing up every day. At Bombas, we're pros too. Pros at making socks. Our Sport Astortment has specialized socks for whatever sport you're committed to. Running, hiking, golf, Pilates, and so much more. Made with sweat-wicking yarns, blister-fighting details, and targeted arch support. Bombas Sport is pro-level socks from the pros of socks. For another pro, you. Go to bombas.com slash audio and use code audio for 20 % off your first purchase.

45:45That's bombas.com and use code audio. Your team just added its 67th AI tool and also your 67th security blind spot. The good news? The Vanta agent works like a GRC engineer in the background, finding every app your team uses, scoring the risk, and drafting fixes for you. Vanta is the platform used by over 16 ,000 fast-moving companies like Ramp, Cursor, and Harvey, who are shaping the future with AI and staying ahead of AI risk. Get started at Vanta.com.

46:30around the world and earn rewards on every single stay, which means the trips you're taking now help pay for the ones you're already dreaming about. So whether you're following your team across North America this summer or planning a well-earned escape after being glued to football for weeks on end, make sure you book on Hotels.com and start earning rewards. Because when it comes to hotels, it's all in the name, Hotels.com.

47:01You're listening to The Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. Keep up to date with us on Insta and enjoy us in glorious Technicolor on YouTube at The Totally Show.

47:19The French, they're in Group I with Senegal, Iraq and Norway. They look stacked with talent, but are they actually any good? And why are folks in France talking about the ghosts of 2002? Let's find out from Tom Williams. Tom. James. France, among the pool of favourites. What marks them out as potential champions? Well, even before the World Cup qualifying cycle, they'd reached the last World Cup and come this close to winning it for the second tournament running. They reached the semi-finals at Euro 2024, despite playing some pretty abject football throughout. So on paper, they were already one of the strongest teams around.

48:06And what has happened since then is that Didier Deschamps very belatedly seems to have found the right attacking configuration to actually bring the best out of his players. And France, for almost the first time in his entire tenure, actually look like the fulsome sum of their parts. So you're saying they're actually better than the last World Cup? Yeah, I think they're more complete. I mean, they were a very solid team at the last World Cup. They were a bit more enterprising than they had been in 2018 when things came together somewhat belatedly. And Deschamps was still trying to figure out his best system going into the tournament.

48:53At 2022, we didn't really deviate all that much from his initial idea. But since then, you look at the players who've come into the team, Michael Alisse, Ousmane Dembele, who's now the running ballon d 'Or, players like Ryan Cherki, Desiree Douai, they've all achieved great things over the last 12 to 18 months. And so on paper, I think France look stronger than possibly at any point in Deschamps' tenure. And that forward line-up, Tom? Yeah. So, I mean, the chances are, I mean, the real novelty of the 2024-25 Nations League campaign and subsequent World Cup qualifying campaign was Deschamps' decision to switch to a 4-2-3-1 system with Michael Alisse as the number 10 and Stringpuller in chief.

49:48It will almost certainly be Ousmane Dembele on the right, Kylian Mbappé, surprise, surprise, up front. And then on the left, between Bradley Barcola and Desiree Douai, the two PSG-wide players, with a supporting cast that also includes Ryan Scherchi and Marcus Touram and Magnès Aklouche. I mean, I'm not sure France have ever had such a glittering array of attacking players going into a major tournament before. Okay, so what could go wrong though? I mean, their recent form has been exceptional. In the two friendlies they played in March, they beat Brazil 2-1 with what was basically their first choice 11 and played pretty convincingly and scored some very nice goals.

50:29They then played Colombia a few days later with their second choice 11 and played even better. So, you know, the depth is there, the know-how is there in terms of players who were around in 2022 when they made it to the final. I mean, there aren't that many weaknesses in this France lineup. One concern in France is in the fullback positions. Jules Koundé is a converted centre-back. He has been in recent years one of the best right-backs in world football, but he's coming off a season, a very indifferent form at Barcelona. Luca Dini will start the tournament at left-back. And he's generally been pretty solid with Villa and with France when he's played.

51:14There's not a huge amount of alternatives, either left-back or right-back. One thing that gives me pause with regard to France is that everything suggests they should do really well. Everything suggests they will be pre-tournament, that they deserve to be pre-tournament favourites. And World Cup history tells us that when teams go into World Cups with that amount of expectation, they very rarely live up to expectations. And the comparison that has been made quite a lot is with 2002. No. And not only because... What happened in 2002, Tom? Well, as we all know, France played Senegal in their opening game.

51:47Right. Widely expected to beat them. They were the reigning champs. They were the reigning champions. Lost to Senegal. Lost to Senegal. Crashed out in the group stage. Crashed out in the group stage. But who are they going to play in their first game this time around? It's only Senegal. So, you know, the omens are there. And again, in 2002, it was France's firepower that was really being talked about. They had the top scorer from the preceding season in England, Italy and France in Thierry Henry, David Rezeguet, Jibril Cissé. And people were saying, well, how can anyone possibly resist this French attack?

52:19And they were absolutely dreadful. So if only for kind of obscure World Cup history reasons, maybe France are going to fall flat on their faces again. There is no kind of empirical evidence to suggest that that is what's going to happen. But, you know, unusual things happen at World Cups. Tom Williams. Senegal, the opening game. And that's not the only point of interest, eh, Duncan? Well, no, because they play a lot of people's dark horses, which I know kind of come on to in the next pod. But Norway. So we get Haaland-Viembappe in the Greek stage. So that's fun. Let's hope for that because France-Norway is the third game.

52:55And if France has already qualified and or Norway, maybe they'll rotate the team that has happened before in previous World Cups so fingers crossed for that What other fixtures stand out though Duncan? Have you seen any other particularly juicy looking ones? Uruguay-Spain, although that has as Nassie said with France-Norway that's the third game, but I do think with the fact that there's so many teams going through I do think the third game will be a bit more important it's not like you've just got the top two going through I think there's going to be more Flux so that could throw up some stuff I think Netherlands Sweden would be quite good as well Gokres versus Van Dijk so yeah there are a lot of group games a lot Brazil-Morocco Brazil-Morocco yeah excellent next up we're going to talk about Portugal and Germany so there's that this is the Totely Football Show with James Richardson part of the Athletic FC podcast network

53:58It's a new World Cup. There's a new World Cup ball. It's called the Trionda, which I would... Is that meant to mean three waves? Is it a reference to the hose? What do we think? Yeah? Trionda. Is it any early word from goalkeepers about trajectories? We sent Liam Tham to test it. Did you? Yeah, but it was so long ago, I can't remember what happened. I don't think it was particularly, it was no Jabalani, which obviously ruined an entire World Cup. Oh, okay. Are there rule changes, Duncan, for this World Cup? Oh, yeah. iFab have been busy. So you can use a laptop in the water cooler break. Yeah, which is big.

54:39Huge. iPads are also available, that's fine. There's all the countdown stuff coming in, which obviously comes in generally in football for next season, but it's coming in for the World Cup. So five second countdowns for goal kicks and throw-ins. Five seconds now? 10 seconds for players to get off the pitch when substituted which is going to be quite funny they're going to have that up on a big screen you'd hope the numbers counting down does that include when limping because that could be really entertaining these days in pedestrian crossings you often have a countdown and sometimes you really have to shift I hope that will be a feature of games what you think traffic lights on the football field the fourth official holds up an orange flashing sprinting man.

55:22Yeah. They have to. They count down the numbers. If you're going across a busy intersection, it'll tell you how many seconds you've got left. I say do that for players as well. Yeah. Anyway, sorry. Anyway, more. We've got, if goalkeepers go down with their fake injuries, players aren't allowed to go over to the laptop and have a tactical thing. So you can't do that, which will please many, I'm sure. You can now be shown a red card for covering your mouth. Yes. Second yellows that have been shown in error can be reviewed by VAR. And VAR, which I'm sure will run very smoothly throughout the tournament, can now check whether a corner was awarded correctly, which I think is one of those things that people go, oh, the opposition got a corner they shouldn't have, so it's good.

56:02But I think it will become incredibly annoying. Well, there's a very short window of opportunity for checking out, I presume. Yeah, there's going to be, I mean, it's going to be a World Cup of countdowns, I think. Right. Don't know. Don't know. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the referee's arm is going to be doing a lot of work. I believe there's a tweak to the offside flagging mechanism that should reduce the delay on calls on that. I don't know. We'll see. A lot of bold promises. Now, Portugal. Liam, you didn't include them. Didn't include them in your potential favourites. They were on the borderline. Were they?

56:37Yeah. Okay. What was pro and what was con for you with Portugal? I mean, they might have the best midfield at the tournament. it's certainly right up there with Spain with the the PSG double act of Vitinha and Jal Neves and obviously the FWA footballer of the year Bruno Fernandes oh and just if you want him Bernardo Silva's just there lying around you know so they should control games against almost anyone they want to which is good because they have a 41 year old number nine who will not be moving anywhere other than immediately outside the penalty area waiting to score I see that's Cristiano Ronaldo.

57:15That's Cristiano Ronaldo. Sixth World Cup. Sixth World Cup. Still hasn't scored a goal in a knockout game at the World Cup. It's remarkable. He certainly didn't last time, as that would suggest, where the big story was how long they would persist with him up front when he resembled a human handbrake on the side. Has that continued, that kind of form? I noted with interest that the game that they played after he picked up a red card against Ireland, they won 9-1 against Armenia. which was far and away their best result. Yeah, but he has also been in really good form under Martinez. He scored 25 goals in 30 appearances under him, which is actually his best goal per game for Portugal.

57:58Now, you can only put so much stock in qualifying or friendly performances, results, but he does seem to come into this in pretty good rhythm. Right. You can bet that he's kept himself in good physical shape. Yeah, he's a champion finally in Saudi Arabia. He played 37 games this season. He scored 30 goals and five assists. So he's got the form and he's got the manager because Roberto Martinez is very clear when he says that he's going to play, he's going to start the games and he's always been on the centre of his plans. I would love to know what some of the teammates think though because they can't.

58:31I mean, he was so bad at the last Euros. It is sort of ridiculous that he's in the squad. And in Qatar, when he didn't start and Gonzalo Ramos was starting, the team showed more fluidity. Right. Yeah. But the thing is, he's going to start. It's pointless to even consider he's not going to start. Ten matches at the last World Cup and Euros combined. How many goals? One. And that was a penalty. It is an extraordinary thing. And yet he is Cristiano Ronaldo. And presumably Martinez sees something there. It also feels like Bruno Fernandes has spent basically half of his career trying to awkwardly fit around an increasingly limited Ronaldo.

59:14Right. Club and country. But when you think of, and you mentioned the midfield, you think about the players he's in front of, that should be, it should be a striker's dream or whatever hybrid position you'd give Ronaldo. Make runs. Like if you want a nice through ball from Bruno Fernandes, which I'm pretty sure he's capable of doing, 21 assists, Merchant, then make a run, Cristiano. though so are we finally when the pros and cons of what whether portugal should be among the favorites which was he or both he could be both right but i mean on that recent tournament record you would have to say con and something that they might have to work around but you know you mentioned brudo fernandez the number of set piece assists he got ronaldo's pretty decent getting up for headers still right i think he always will be um and they've got i would say maybe not elite elite wing talent but good enough players to supply him maybe make those runs that he's not making in wide areas and you still have a defense that's pretty mean as well Marshall by Ruben Diaz I mean his international record is astonishing 226 games 143 goals that's the sort of record a quite good player would have at a league team and he's done it internationally so yeah it's it's a sort of crazy experiment we don't really know how it's going to play out but it would be quite fascinating to observe he's very passionate about playing for portugal as well and and this really wins uh some people over i was i was talking to a few uh portuguese uh friends uh because i'll be following portugal as well in the world cup so i wanted to have a feeling of how portugal is uh seeing this whole ronaldo situation and apparently like there are people who who think that that you know the the team plays uh better uh without him but there is still a large group of Portuguese fans who really believe in Ronaldo.

1:01:04It's not as divisive as Neymar in Brazil, for example. That's interesting. Yeah. They're in a group with Colombia, Uzbekistan, Fabio Cannavalos, Uzbekistan, and Democratic Republic of Congo. They've never faced any of those teams before. Of course, Cristiano Ronaldo was meant to be missing, I think, the first two group games after picking up that red card against Ireland. But FIFA, what was the explanation FIFA gave? I don't, I think there was one in the end. It was just like, ah. Just let him play. I mean, they probably thought he's going to have to score in the group stage because we know what happens in the knockout, so.

1:01:38Yeah. I think the official statement was just, we can't have that. Yeah. We can't have him missing. None of this, please. Come on. There's also the factor that a lot of Portuguese are a bit insecure about Roberto Martinez because, you know, So he made a few odd decisions since he started managing Portugal. Like he already played João Neves as a right back, even though he has so many good options in right back. He has, you know, João Cancelo, Mateus Nunes, Diego Dallô. And he likes players that people don't love, like Nelson Semedo. He already played with a back three and it didn't work. He changes things during the game that sometimes fans don't really understand.

1:02:26But, you know, basically there was a sense that if Portugal didn't win the Nations League, that Roberto Martinez would be sacked. But they did. And he's there. He did. You talked about Thomas Tuchel's running cups. Martinez got a similar skill for knockout competitions. They're winning the Nations League, although there's a fairly brief knockout competition. But also, weekend FA Cup. Incredible, no? He led Belgium further than anyone else did in the World Cup as well. Their best ever finish in 2018, which is maybe a parallel to this Portugal squad. A country that's traditionally been seen as maybe a dark horse.

1:03:05Now they're just a big, strong horse, I think. Yeah, and I know there's a lot of, obviously, there's a lot of talk about the midfield, which I agree it is the best midfield in the World Cup. But also, you have a player like Nuno Menges. A lot of their players are coming into this World Cup playing at a very high level. All midfielders, Nuno Mendes. You can make a case that it wasn't a great season for Ruben Dias, for example, because of injuries. But, you know, Diogo Costa, goalkeeper up front, kind of, because, you know, it's either Rafael Leão or Pedro Neto alongside Cristiano Ronaldo. But there are a lot of players playing at a very high level for Portugal.

1:03:47It's such a good squad. And Martínez, when he announced his squad, announced it as 27 plus 1, as with the reference to the sadly deceased Liverpool player Diogo Jota, whose last appearance actually on a football field was for Portugal in that Nations League final. I was asking if there was, I was talking to my friends asking, OK, is there a feeling of, OK, let's win this for Cristiano Ronaldo? And they said, yeah, kind of, but there's really a feeling about winning it for Diogo Jota. There is something that the Portuguese really, really embrace. And Andy Robertson did that touching interview towards the end of the season when he said that him and Diego Joshua talked a lot about playing at the World Cup and that was going to be on his mind as he's over Scotland.

1:04:32Right. The team we haven't mentioned yet from our Magnificent Seven is the kind of muscle memory member of the group, the Germans. They're in Group E with Ecuador, Ivory Coast and Curaçao. Only Brazil have won the World Cup more times than the Mannschaft. Thank you for mentioning. They last won it in 2014 when I believe they had a really big win in the semi. So unnecessary. Go on, Germany. Well, they did win in 2014. Since then, they failed to make it out of the group stage in the last two World Cups. That's not good. Their qualifying for this campaign saw them struggle as well. They even lost 2-0 to Slovakia.

1:05:14But they also beat them 6-0 and qualified. After that loss, they went on a five wins in a row run. I watched the Northern Ireland game when they were in Belfast, and they struggled that night. That was my point. But not always they were playing well. Yeah, exactly. What is it they're struggling with? Is it goal scoring? Yeah, they didn't really have, I'd say, a top class forward. Obviously, Nick Vultemar top scored in qualifying for them. With four goals. But Eddie Howes turned him into a sort of, you know, floating number eight. So that's better not. They're back to Kai Havertz now as the likely number nine.

1:05:58Yeah. And they've been pretty wasteful with their chances in previous tournaments. But I think it's good to point out that they had a good run at the Euros and they actually played well at the Euros. Also, in the previous two World Cups, they suffered a little with, you know, especially the last one, a lot of changes in the back line. So you see a more clear identity to this German team. there is a spine of the team that is based on Bayern Munich players with Jonathan Ta, Pavlovic, Kimmich who will be playing right back and not in midfield. Goretzka who hasn't been playing a lot for Bayern Munich but has been playing for Germany.

1:06:44And Musiala is a big one I think because he had so many physical issues and he had a big injury in the Club World Cup was out for a month. So if he's fit physically, the partnership between, you know, Musiala and Florian Wirtz, who is very good when he's very good for Germany. So that can really work. Do they deserve a place in this conversation then? Could they be a factor? Yeah, I think so. I would say of all the favorites, their group looks tough, though. You mentioned they went out of the group stage the last two. I mean, they will get through because, you know, so many teams get through. Second place in South American World Cup qualifying.

1:07:25They're good at one match. Ivory Coast. Curacao, led by Dutchman, filled the team with Dutchman. But we have to mention the Neuer U-turn. And I think that can be a bit disruptive for Germany because you have a goalkeeper who started all games in qualifier in Oliver Bauman, who didn't make any massive mistakes to the point of, no, we need to get rid of this guy. And then Julian Nagelsmann, who always said that he knows what the team's going to be and everyone's roles and blah, blah, blah. And then he decides that, you know, Manuel Norris is going to be my number one and he's not retired anymore.

1:08:01He's back. So, yeah, I don't know if it's a good message to send to the group. And Norris seems to reach that stage of his career where he can put in brilliant performances and then make massive errors. It could go really either way, couldn't it? Because there's a parallel with Oliver Kahn in 2002 where a slightly underwhelming Germany team is elevated by the best goalkeeper in the tournament and does better than anyone expects. But as you say, it could be quite destabilizing for the dressing room. I mean, that Kahn was a good example of that because right until the final, but the final was anything but.

1:08:37And he's the only remaining player from the 2014. It's been a long transitional period for Germany. Anything but Neuer, one would say. I mean, Neuer is responsible for one of my favourite World Cup moments when he was trying to dribble past the South Korean attack and just left the cup. I mean, he's got an unsuccessful dribble just outside the opposition penalty box. So, I mean, I'm a big fan of that. So if he wants to do that again, I'm all for it. Excellent. All right. Well, those are the big seven then. If it wasn't one of those teams, if you got an outsider, one of the other 41 nations, who would you pick as a dark horse?

1:09:13Natalie? Can we call Netherlands a dark horse? By all means. Yeah, I think they have a lot of talent in their squad. Liam? An outsider for the cup? I mean, I think these are potentially really dark horses, but I quite like the look of Turkey. I think they've got some interesting players. That's never been said. yeah they the the eternal choice hipster choice but yeah kenan yield is arda gulia they've got some nice creative talent i think they could be quite an attack-minded one or if you wanted to go defensive ecuador i think okay it's like a super solid choice duncan uh i might go mexico really just home advantage altitude attitude um and i mean they've got an incredible record of going out in the last 16 and that's just what they do but there's an extra round this time so maybe that was squirreling into uh into something yeah i just think i think one of the hosts is going to do better than expected i think it probably will be mexico and and let's throw japan there because they're always fun in there yeah yeah well you know what we're going to have a chat in our next preview show about the hosts and the dark horses and all that kind of thing and uh yeah samurai blue blue samurai is certainly going to be certainly going to be in that conversation.

1:10:30Natalie, for now, thank you so much. You're heading off to the States soon? Yes, on the 9th. I'm flying on the 9th. And you're going to be following Portugal and Brazil? Brazil. Brazil. Nice. Good. Where can we see your pieces? I will be working for Fox Sports in the US. If you're listening in the States. Yes. That's where. Liam, what are you going to be up to? Staying here, but doing lots of World Cup and Chelsea, Chelsea adjacent content across various platforms. Right. Busy summer, of course. Always. Always. And Duncan, you and I are going to be in our base in Los Angeles. So, yeah. Excellent.

1:11:09Well, I look forward to seeing you there. See you there. Good one. Excellent. Thanks to Jake and producer Charlie. Do look out for our next preview show and also the final of the Intertotally Cup, which will be with you before the World Cup starts. For now, though, from all of us here, it's goodbye.

1:11:28You've been listening to The Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. For other great podcasts just like this one, including The Athletic FC and our dedicated club podcasts, search for The Athletic in all the usual places. We're also at The Totally Show on Insta and at The Totally Show on YouTube. The Totally Football Show is an Athletic Media Company production.

1:11:58The Athletic FC.

1:12:03This episode of the Totally Football Show is brought to you by Hotels.com. When you're booking a hotel, here's a simple question. Why wouldn't you use Hotels.com? It really is all in the name. As a member, you save up to 20 % on hundreds of thousands of hotels around the world and earn rewards on every single stay, which means the trips you're taking now help pay for the ones you're already dreaming about. and unlike some other places there are no blackout dates so when you want to travel your rewards are ready to go so whether you're following your team across north america this summer or planning a well-earned escape to make up for being glued to the football for weeks on end make sure you book on the hotels.com and start earning rewards because when it comes to hotels it's simple hotels.com it's all in the name

1:12:52I cannot tell a lie. My sinuses are blocked. George, you crossed the Delaware. You can cross congestion. Here, try Clear. Ah, freedom. Smells like victory. Celebrate 250 years of American independence with better breathing. Use code AMERICA250 for 20 % off checkout at clear.com. That's X-L-E-A-R.com. Clear. Breathe in the independence. You know what I keep seeing online? People finishing college degrees way faster than you'd expect, like months instead of years. And it hit me. Most people get stuck because they need a faster way to make progress. That's what study.com is built for. Online college courses on your schedule, at your own pace on your phone or your laptop, with hundreds of courses that transfer to more than 2 ,000 colleges and universities.

1:13:47So instead of putting life on hold, join the thousands of students earning their degrees faster and for less at just$95 a month. Go to study.com slash podcast to start earning college credit and get 10 % off your first month. That's study.com slash podcast. Hey there, it's Wayfair here, where delivery and setup are as easy as a few taps on your phone. You're relaxing in an old hammock scrolling Wayfair's app when you spot it, a brand new patio set. Next thing you know, Wayfair delivers it right to your patio and sets it up. Oh, you need a new grill too? Alright, Wayfair's got you covered. With Wayfair's room of choice delivery and fast expert setup on qualifying orders, life gets a little easier.

1:14:26Visit Wayfair.com or the Wayfair app. Wayfair, every style, every home.