World Cup preview: The hosts and the dark horses… like Scotland!

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2:58It's Wednesday the 3rd of June and it's time for our second World Cup preview show. Today, I'm featuring JJ Bull. Hello. Hi, JJ. You've brought in your World Soccer World Cup preview. It's lovely. I've been enjoying reading it all week. what's your favourite thing that you've discovered so far amongst these pages I really like this the little small bottom of the second page where they have the manager so they have every team you know and they have an explanation a big long blur but then they have a bit at the bottom which is small questions from the manager and then two journalists from that country talking about what they think the chances are it's a good way to get in the mindset of someone who supports Tunisia for example okay well we'll keep that one open then throughout the show Colin Miller's also with us hi Colin Hi, James.

3:43How are you? I'm very, very well. Are you excited about the World Cup? Yeah, I think so. I think now that the club season's over, you can focus your full attentions on it, and World Cup fever has gripped me. Good! It's so big this time that it's quite hard to get your brain around. But to help us with that today, we're joined by Felipe Cardenas of The Athletic, who's out in Atlanta. Felipe? I'm here. I'm here in Atlanta. For now, for now, I'll be in LA. I'll be joining you all in LA about maybe the first week of July. but I will be in Atlanta for the first part of the World Cup. I'm excited. This really defines, I think, my fandom as a football fan, the World Cup, so I'm very excited.

4:22Yeah, I think as a tournament, it transcends football. Generally speaking, in one of the three host nations, because we've got Mexico and Canada, obviously as well, but is there much excitement there? Is there much anticipation? I think it's starting. You know, if you were to ask, I've been asked this question, this question many times over the last few years, over the last year, over the last six months. And my answer was pretty, it didn't change much until now. I think the U.S. is the type of country that is so used to big events, but they don't, the public doesn't really get engaged until that event is actually happening.

5:01And so if you go around the World Cup cities, you now you're starting to see the metro, the airports, the stadiums, and I think even some art murals all resembling, you know, that that the token World Cup, you know, art. You're starting to see it around town. And we haven't seen fans arriving yet, but I know Atlanta is really one of those cities that's ready, that is excited to host up to eight games, including a semifinal, a great stadium, a great downtown venue. And so it's one of those cities that I think is going to be fully prepared once this kicks off. Felipe, I was going to ask about Atlanta specifically as well.

5:44This is probably the biggest soccer city in the U.S., right? I mean, you look at the fandom that exists there, you look at the average attendances that Atlanta get in MLS, it's over 40 ,000. I don't think the next team, Seattle, of 30 ,000 odds. So that's quite a big jump. What is it about Atlanta in particular? Like, what are the ingredients that make it such a soccer-friendly city and what's behind that surge in fandom? Yeah, I think if you ask Seattle or St. Louis or some other cities that they will claim to be Soccer City USA. I do agree that I think Atlanta is sort of the new age of that definition.

6:25And it really did start with the city landing an MLS team in 2014. Then they kick off playing in 2017. And immediately, you know, behind Miguel Amarone and Tata Martino and the Venezuelan striker Joseph Martinez, they just really were playing great football. It was exciting. It was an exciting style of play. And I think this is a city in Atlanta that, you know, yes, we are in the southern part of the United States. It is very much the deep south. But Atlanta is a very cosmopolitan city. There's a lot of transits here, a lot of people from all over the world, all over the country. And I think, honestly, they were starved to support anything that was related to football, to soccer.

7:06And so Atlanta United really, I think, did awaken, you know, that desire to support a team. And then they build this fabulous, you know, new stadium, you know,$1.6 billion stadium, Mercedes-Benz Stadium, which is, you know, a roof. It looks like a spaceship. It's just incredible. And it's just a great place to go watch. And then Atlanta United wins MLS Cup, which is the winning the league, essentially, in 2018 and only their second year of existence. And you mentioned the attendance that that just has carried over. The team has not been great over the last six years and the fans still show up.

7:43And so, you know, not only is Atlanta has this club team and their MLS team, but just recently the U.S. soccer unveiled a$250 million national training center about 30 minutes from downtown Atlanta. I've been there several times. It is spectacular. I don't think there's anything like it in international football. and so now the federation has is now calling atlanta home so it's all come together really over the last decade which has made atlanta now yes a new a new age in modern soccer city excellent england could be visiting there in the round of 32 the traditional round of 32 coming up if things go well in the group stages we talked about england in the first of our preview shows along with the other notional favorites for this year's tournament today We're focusing more on the host nations and the sides that might bring a surprise.

8:40Plus, what awaits from the African sides and Scotland too. JJ. The other favourite. The other favourite. My favourite. Let's start off though with the hosts. This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. So there's three hosts for this year's World Cup. As you know, USA, Mexico and Canada. Philippi, a host, quite often outperforms expectations in a World Cup for a variety of reasons. Which would you say of those three is the best placed to do so? Hmm. OK, I have I have my quick answer, but I think the public and probably the listeners think and assume I'm going to say the United States.

9:29They are primed to have their best World Cup ever, right? They're playing their games in the West Coast. They'll be in L.A. for two games, then Seattle. Seattle, as we just mentioned, rich history in football and soccer. And they're going to have probably one of the best crowds we will see supporting a home side in Seattle when the U.S. faces Australia in their second group stage match. And everything is set up for the United States, this so-called golden generation of players. Everyone is in Europe. Christian Pulisic is in AC Milan. Wesley McKinney signing this gigantic contract with Juventus.

10:08But they're not my pick for the host country. And for me, it's Mexico. It is Mexico. And Mexico, having crashed out of the 2022 World Cup in the group stage for the first time since 78, they hit rock bottom when it comes to football in 2022. From 2022 to about 2024, nothing was going right. Multiple coaches come in. One guy gets two games. He gets fired. The fans think that the players aren't good enough anymore. Liga MX East, which is the most popular soccer league in the U.S. behind the Premier League, the most viewed even above the Premier League, even fans and pundits in Mexico saying, we're not good enough.

10:50This league isn't good enough. We are being flooded with foreign signings. our players aren't developing. But I think this team has found its groove. They're going to be playing at the Estadio Azteca, which Mexico has lost twice there in over 60 years, officially, official games. And yes, there are some players that were part of that 22 team in Qatar that failed, but they've brought in some new players. They've got the 17-year-old who I think is fabulous, Gilberto Mora very much like a mixture between Pedro and a young Iniesta I'm not overselling this player watch him play he's very good and he'll be very a very key part of that team and I just think that the Mexican fan base if they win against South Africa in that opener that stadium those people are going to carry this team potentially to a quarterfinal and so that is my team I think between the US Canada and Mexico I think Canada struggling to score goals I think they're in a tougher group, it's Mexico.

11:55I think they'll surprise us the co-hosts. Interesting. The group that they're in includes South Africa, with whom they begin, then South Korea and the Czech Republic. Canada, who've never actually won. In fact, they've lost all of their six previous World Cup matches, but who have in the last nine years leapt up the FIFA rankings from 120th in the world to 26th. That's got to be for some reason, right? Yeah, I mean, listen, they over in CONCACAF qualifying, they finished, I believe, in 22 second or third. But they were leading the qualifiers over the U.S. and Mexico for the majority of that qualifying campaign.

12:34And so they figured out a way to play. I think that's the one thing that we can point to with Canada. They are very physical. They really will press and run throughout. They don't have, like technically, it's not the most technical team. And I do think that even though they have a striker like Jonathan David and one of the best left wingers in the world in Alphonso Davies, beyond that, it's not a lot of big names. A lot of players are just getting really accustomed to international football. They hired Jesse Marsh, an American coach who publicly has said that he felt snubbed when Mauricio Pochettino was hired instead of him to coach the U.S.

13:16Jesse Marsh is a former U.S. national team player, coached a long time in MLS, very outspoken, very energetic. And still, there are a lot of fans in the U.S. that wish Jesse Marsh were coaching the U.S. because he brings, I think, a different level of aggression, a very American style of aggression to football. And so he's coaching Canada. He's been extended to 2030. So clearly they believe in him. I just am not ever sold on Canada. I know they will fight. I know they will punch, but can they actually score goals and win games over 90 minutes? That's the big question mark. What about the USA then, who a lot of people see really well placed for this home World Cup, not least because they brought in this massive managerial name in Mauricio Pochettino.

14:0418 months since he came in, has he had the impact that everyone was expecting, Felipe? Okay. Well, you know, I think on the pitch, it's been very inconsistent. You know, they've gone through stretches where they win five in a row, then they can't get a win in five. And, you know, to his credit, though, and given the benefit of the doubt, he's tried out, you know, over 80 players, I think. You know, he doesn't stick to a starting 11. He's still trying out players, even last week in a win against Senegal in Charlotte. So, you know, and I think there's still a lot of questions about whether he was the right hire.

14:39You know, obviously you mentioned Marisa Pochettino. Everyone knows him in world football, has never coached internationally. And everyone knows, everyone that's listening, you don't have to have a UEFA C license to understand that going from club football to international football is like a completely different game. And so those are always the questions about Marisa Pochettino. Then he's done interviews in Spanish here where he really questions like the American soccer culture. and if they really truly believe in the sport and if they believe in hunger and fight and in Argentina, he always talks about Argentina that we live and die for that shirt and I think he struggled with this generation of American player which after the 2024 Copa America where they flop and they don't get out of the group as a host nation they fired Greg Berhalter and a lot of the criticism was about the players entitled, not working hard enough, coddled by the former manager.

15:41And so Mauricio Pinchotino has come in and tried to change that culture. And I think he's doing it little by little. I don't think he's really settled on his 11 yet, though. We're just less than 10 days away from that opener, I believe. And so if he can establish just the right mentality, then this team is going to figure out ways, I think, to win games in the group stage. can they do it in the knockout rounds? That is the big question. This is not a team that has beaten the big international sides when it really matters. And that is still the big question for Marisa Patricina. Plus, we all know, we all suspect that he will not be here as soon as they are eliminated.

16:23He'll be moving on to the next job. There was a lot of controversy recently when the Athletic was the one that broke the story that he had met with officials from AC Milan, like only weeks ago. And so that, any pundit in the US that doesn't like Pochettino took a lot of swings at him after that was made official. But I think the players seem to address it as, hey, we know that he's essentially moving on after this. He's locked in with us. He's dedicated to us. So we'll see if all those become distractions or if that becomes something that really brings the team together. Okay. They haven't had an official, well, a competitive match since the final of the Gold Cup last summer when they were defeated by Mexico.

17:04I guess that makes it hard to get a handle on how far he's managed to take them so far. What do you think, though, is the bare minimum expected from him? It's the quarterfinals. I think that tends to be the target for this team. And for any U.S., it doesn't matter if it's Pochettino. Yes, he has already said publicly, and honestly, I don't want to say he's been laughed at, but he has said that we can win the World Cup, meaning the United States. And that's obviously he says that depending on who he's talking to. And he has this sort of new phrase saying, you know, why not us? It's something that he continues to say.

17:41Why not us? The players are echoing that sentiment as well. And if you look at their group, Group D, Paraguay, Australia and Turkey, every one of those teams can beat each other. I think that's one of those groups where you look at it and not a real heavy favorite. Perhaps you can say that the Turkish national team is the more talented side there. but I look at Paraguay. I've done a lot of work with Paraguay, spoken to players on that national team. That is a really tricky opener for the U.S. in my opinion. And Paraguay looks at that opener against the host nation as their World Cup final. It is their reintroduction to the World Cup after 16 years.

18:20They haven't been there since 2010, Paraguay. So it's not a difficult group. It's not an easy group. It is just so even. And so I think that gives the U.S. a bit of an edge because they're going to have the home crowd, but it won't be easy. I think every game is going to be a battle. Okay. And if you want to answer the question, why not us, what would be the number one reason? Why not America? Well, I don't think this generation of player, these players on the current U.S. national team have proven to anybody that they can be a really top side in an international tournament. You know, when in 2022, they get out of the group and they face the Netherlands and it looked like, you know, men against boys, to be honest with you.

19:01And that wasn't an excellent Netherlands team. I think obviously we saw what they, you know, the heartbreaker against Argentina, they could have moved on. They could have been in the semifinal. What, you know, what types of teams can the U.S. be beyond their region, I think is a huge question mark. And so, yeah, I just feel like they haven't been tested in that way. And we don't know if they're going to show up because the Copa America, they were co-hosts. They couldn't get out of the group. It was a huge showcase for those players to prove that they can get out of a group and potentially face Colombia, Argentina, Brazil in a knockout and defeat them.

19:41And they weren't able to do that because they didn't get out of the group. So this group of players has a lot has a lot to prove. All right. Excellent. Felipe, we're going to hear much more from you. One or two Dark Horse nominations in particular coming up. Next up, JJ, let's hear about this Scotland side.

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23:07JJ, you're so excited about Scotland, you wrote a song about them. Yes. They reached the world cup in such dramatic fashion. All captured perfectly in the song. Yes. Absolutely very dramatic. Everyone's very excited about it. Right. Well, if their World Cup campaign can live up to anything like the last-minute drama of the game against Denmark, we're in for a treat. Yeah. I mean, I think everyone's very much aware of how good Morocco and Brazil are. I mean, they've heard of both. And I think Haiti destroying New Zealand 4-0 the other day has made things either worse or better because now we know that, oh God, here we go.

23:47Scotland have players good enough to take on any of those teams. And weirdly, I shouldn't say it on any sort of recorded audio, but I've got a feeling about the Brazil game that that's just the sort of one that suits Scotland to the ground. Right. Brazil and Morocco were opponents for Scotland in their last walk up in 98. This time around, is the feeling just you're happy to be there and whatever happens, happens? Or do you have actual notions of them emerging from the group? I think the expectation generally amongst most people, and I'm sure everyone would admit this, is that we expect Scotland should beat Haiti because they are the second lowest in the FIFA rankings in the entire tournament.

24:23But as Steve Clarke has said, I think that's right, but I think Steve Clarke has said that they're definitely not a pot four team. He's watched them and he's got people watching them for them. They're not that bad. And when you see them, they're better than you expect Haiti to be. So, you know, this is why the World Cup's magic. You just don't expect it. You're like, ah, okay, it doesn't matter that we... did or did not invent passing football whatever that old claim from Scotland is and so I think that's the expectation but you know as ever certain random teams do have they do do well in World Cups and there's Morocco are so good that they shouldn't expect to get anything out of them but that's exactly what Scotland are good against and Brazil they should never get anything out of them it's Brazil it's Ronaldo it's Romario but that's exactly the sort of team that Scotland could do something against I did also think this about when we played Germany in the Euros so anyone unhopeful listening you know it's fine no no but I'm swept away by your optimism let's talk a bit about the team it's been an amazing season in Scotland Hearts who are very much the protagonists of that their former skipper Lawrence Shankland just signed for Rangers he's in the squad who else is in there that you think is going to be pulling off these upsets against Brazil and Morocco well it's interesting whether Shankland will start or not he's probably the goal scorer in the team but Steve Clark this sounds a bit silly but the striker and a Steve Clark team, their job isn't really to score.

25:44It's to be a lightning rod for direct attacks, to flit the ball on for second balls, be a sweat, it's set pieces. So, I mean, they are supposed to score, but Shankland, so there's five strikers in that squad. And I think that indicates that Clark's probably ready to play two at once, which will probably be a 4-4-2, which will be interesting because there's not really any wingers other than Ben Gannon Doak in that team. Now, John McGinn does play on the left, and that would mean he would play inside off the left, which would give room for Robertson to push forward, which kind of makes sense. I think maybe it made more sense about five years ago when Robertson was at his peak able to do that.

26:20Not to say he couldn't do it now, but you want to protect it. But against Brazil especially, you'll probably drop into a back five, two strikers rather than one. I think it'll help with whatever pressing shape he chooses to use. Everyone's doing the same 4-4-2 zonal block into man-to-man. Everyone does that now. So two strikers from the start allows you to sort of get into that shape a bit easier. maybe if they go man to man. So I think the really important players are probably just the midfielders because there are all of those there. The obvious one being Scott McTominay, Ballon d 'Or of Napoli.

26:49Lewis Ferguson's obviously had great seasons in Serie A. John McGinn is the superstar you've got there. So surprisingly, it's happened recently because Billy Gilmore suffered this injury against Curacao, which is a real shame for him. I feel really bad for him. But the player that's come in is Tyler Fletcher. probably won't see much action but what might happen is that you end up playing Ryan Christie in place in midfield so you end up with him and someone else in the midfield too which might open up a place in the wing for Finlay Curtis who's a young player on loan at Kamarnik from Rangers now I'd not really known who he is I've probably seen him play a few times watching Scottish games never really caught on but he brings a certain I guess the word directness and enthusiasm and he's just good he's just good things happen when he's on the ball.

27:38He's fast, he can run in behind. Scotland should probably be against the ball most of the time, so having players like that just opens things up. And it's him that scored, I think, the first goal against Curacao, just in the right place at the right time. Great positioning, great first touch, great finish. Maybe he's the superstar that comes out of the World Cup. Perhaps so. Maybe it's the young fella that looks likely to be lining up between the posts. Yes, yes. Well, it's not going to be Craig Gordon. I think number one shirt's gone to Angus Gunn. Okay. He's going to start. But Craig Gordon's 43 years old.

28:11Yes. Yes. He's seen it all before. It was pretty miserable stuff last time out for Scotland at the Euros. But with the experience of that tournament and the way that they performed in this qualifying campaign, I can understand why you're optimistic, JJ. Well, this is the thing. I'm optimistic because I'm excited about it, I think. It's quite fun. But also, the thing with Steve Clarke's teams, obviously, he's the great manager. So well done, Steve Clarke, getting us there. I've watched all the games and I think we should have not won almost all of them so it's been a lot of luck especially against Greece I think the most obvious ones they were putting the ball across the six yard box there just wasn't someone there there wasn't someone right next to the touch you know like really close to it the Denmark game is an exceptional result and it makes us feel really confident beat Curacao but they had ten men and before that it was hard it was difficult and I think what Steve Clarke does is he empowers individuals and he has lots of great players who are like captains they can all individually be captains you know, Christie, McGinn, McTominay they can all be individual captains and that's really good you have to have really good characters in your team to give your team character and that's a really good thing but I think what you'd see is that they kind of lack ideas especially in the final third they'll always be set up well to defend but if you're against like Brazil it just takes one mistake you know and then like Hendricks through and go it's the kind of thing that'll it's maybe just not I don't know I'm And two sides of optimism and very hard realism on this, yeah.

29:39I see. All right. How big an absence is Billy Gilmore within that? Because there's five players in the Scotland squad who've got 10 or more international goals. I think they're, as you sort of alluded to there, like moments players, like McTominay, McGinn, can do something kind of ridiculous out of nothing, right? But Billy Gilmore is the one that sort of sits in there and kind of controls the game, kind of sets some sort of a tempo. And I'm not really sure Scotland have any replacement for that. And at these tournaments, the teams that don't have that player kind of struggle a lot certainly in the second half and in the games there's more pressure building and that sort of thing just to sort of get their foot on the ball and pass it around a bit I think it's interesting because Gilmour is obviously the only kind of I don't know what you'd call him a deep playing playmaker or something he's a proper number six that links the defence to midfield I don't think he always makes the right decision on the ball I think he's maybe not as I don't want to be super harsh on him, obviously, but he's maybe not as quick to turn and do things that a number six should do as other players in that same position in other countries are.

30:43I think you can put him under pressure and I've seen him make lots of mistakes. Even against Kurosawa, I don't think he was great before he went off injured. Also, you don't really need that kind of player. I mean, there's not much use to them as the ball is constantly going over their head. So if you are looking to try and play it direct to someone and then build off of them with McGinn or someone like that, which is probably, it sounds a bit I don't know not facetious but it's not maybe fair but I think a lot of it will be midfield control when the ball gets up there I don't know how often they'll play from the back because they don't really have players who are good at that and everyone in the world of football is now amazing at pressing high so you're probably going to go direct quite a lot hence two strikers and I don't think although it's a big miss because he does offer something different to everyone else in that squad I think actually it won't be that bad and I wouldn't mind at all having a midfield two of like Lewis Ferguson can do it McLean can do it McGinn can do it Christie can do it they're all great players in either a two or a three JJ Magnificent look forward to seeing that your opening game is against Brazil no Haiti Haiti Haiti that's the one we have to win and if we don't win that we're all cancelling it can I just say that for Scotland you know once when Ireland was eliminated there was the American public I think was gut punched when they realised that the Irish would not be coming but Scotland Scotland and that their supporters and that fan group that fan base and so many American Scots or Americans who claim to have 1 % Scottish blood, they're all going to be supporting this team in the U.S.

32:13I was at my daughter's swim meet yesterday and ran just a random parent in this big crowd wearing the Scottish jersey, the Scottish kit. And I said, yeah, Scotland's here. Scotland's coming. And I think they win that first game. And I don't know. They'll have their moment, I think, this summer. All right. They're saying the same thing in the Haiti camp right now. But Scottish fans were voted the best at the last Euros, no? Yeah, something like that. I think the German team were like, oh, we're all Scotland now or something like that as well after pummeling us in the first... Pummeling you. Ruining the entire thing.

32:45Football is a stupid game, really, isn't it? Wow. It is. It is. Let's hear next about the no less than 10 teams on their way from Africa from Mahe Mazahi.

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35:30African teams. Four years ago, Morocco made the very first ever semi-final appearance by an African nation at a World Cup. This time around we've got a record 10 teams from the continent heading to the tournament. Seems like a pretty good time to be talking about the prospects for African success. So joining us is Meher Mazahi. Meher, how are you doing? I'm doing very well. Thanks for having me on, Jimbo. It's the World Cup, so it's always sort of like our Super Bowl, if we can call it that, since in the American World Cup. Yeah, I think never more appropriate. Well, let's talk, touch, first of all, of the 10 teams.

36:08The one that perhaps is best placed to repeat or even further the success of the last tournament, and that's Morocco. A slightly disrupted build up for this campaign though yeah look morocco i mean everything is pointing up into the right for them if you look at the sort of long-term vision the long-term plan they have going into that 2030 world cup where they're hosting that remains the sort of ultimate goal where they're trying to sprint through the finish line there um but if you look at their women's national team they've qualified for their first world cup they did pretty well there if you look They're the current, I believe, under 17 AFCON champions, under 20 World Cup champions, African Nations championship champions, Arab Cup champions.

36:50And now, at least via judicial ruling, they're the AFCON champions as well. That AFCON was taken away from Senegal. So really, everything was going swimmingly. They were able to regenerate their national team, plug in a lot of new young talent. And the only thing that I think can sort of trip them up is actually what happened in that final against Senegal. Because immediately after the match, when we spoke, Jimbo, immediately after the match, the first question in the press conference from a Moroccan journalist to their coach, Waleed Ur-Gregui, who led them to that semifinal in 2022, was, are you going to resign tonight or tomorrow morning?

37:25And he didn't answer. He shouldn't have answered. But he ended up resigning a few weeks later. And now they have a new coach. and under that new coach, who is the coach, by the way, that helped the under-20 team win the FIFA World Cup, Morocco are expected to play a more expansive, more attractive brand of football with a false nine, really utilize the width of the pitch. Is that conducive to getting success at the World Cup? Because in 2022, it's the statistics that I always repeat, but the one match that they had more than 50 % of possession in was the match against France, and that's the match that they lost.

37:59They were much better sitting in that 4-1-4-1, sitting back, hitting you on the counter, attacking on set pieces. So is that new style, which is probably more conducive to success in the long term, is it going to get you a similar result? I'm not as sure. Okay, it's underdog football, I guess, that got you to the semifinal last time. And now you're looking to move up a level or two. We'll see how that works out. What about the team that who possibly won or didn't win the AFCON, I'm confused now, against Morocco, Senegal. They have managerial issues as well. Has he refused to go to the United States?

38:34Yeah, Schrodinger's Cup of Nations. Pap Tiao is sort of getting his business done before he gets onto the plane. And that's what all African nations have done, with the exception of Ghana in 2014, when you remember they went to Brazil and they had the cash flowing out to them on the airplane. But this is unfortunately par for the course for a lot of African nations. You always have contract disputes, bonus disputes, and they tend to be public because they want these things resolved. And they know that if they put this out in the media, there's going to be public pressure to get the federation to resolve everything before they can actually begin the World Cup.

39:12From what we understand, Paptiao was not given a new contract after the African Cup of Nations. He was one of the lowest paid coaches at the African Cup of Nations. It's one of those things where a lot of African nations are giving chances to former internationals. because on one hand, they understand the country, they understand the personality, the media, so on and so forth. But on the other hand, it's also because they can pay them very cheap salaries. I mean, Paptial is probably on something between 20 ,000 to 30 ,000 US dollars per month. Vladimir Petkovic for Algeria is on 135 ,000 euros, just to give you a difference in the salary.

39:43So I think Paptial is trying to secure his future past the World Cup. And I'm very, very confident that they're going to get that resolved in the very near future. Okay. They looked excellent at AFCon. They are in a very tough group, though. France, Norway and Iraq Iraq possibly not as strong but Norway a lot of people's tips, we'll be talking about them later on for dark horse status and France one of the strongest squads the World Cup has ever seen And they didn't look great against the United States in a pre-tournament friendly in Charlotte particularly defending and obviously Norway's strong point is going to be Erling Haaland I think as you mentioned one time when we spoke, maybe the most important player to his country in terms of their success.

40:25If you talk about one individual player, I like Osemen for Nigeria, but I think Holland has a shell for that too. But we're hoping, what we're hoping is like, look, that's just a friendly. It doesn't really matter. You know, in March, Senegal celebrated their trophy to get back to Schrodinger's Cup of Nations in front of all their fans against the Gambia, their neighbors. And after the match, the coach, Paptiao, who we just spoke of, said to the press, You know, if I didn't think that we could win the World Cup, then I wouldn't be sitting here in front of you. Now, it was a strong statement. But what shocked me more than anything was the fact that this didn't draw ridicule or ire.

41:02If an African coach said this, you know, eight years ago, 12 years ago, I think everybody would have thought he's nuts and everything. Everybody's conscious that Senegal are not a favorite. You know, we're talking about England, France, Spain, Argentina. These are the traditional favorites. There's probably six nations that are considered traditional favorites. But it's not ridiculous to think that they're a contender, that they can be a thorn in the side, that they can make a push into the final four. And it's the first time that I can ever remember us feeling that way about an African team prior to the tournament starting.

41:34So for me, it's an indication of how far the continent's sort of gone. Right. And that's largely thanks to what Morocco did last time? Yeah. Like, it's psychological, but if they can do it and we're head-to-head with them on the continent, and we beat them on the pitch at least a year, why can't we do it? And Senegal, since 2017, since I've been going to Cup of Nations titles, they've either won the entire tournament or they've lost to the eventual champions, which is a stat that holds up no matter which way you interpret Schrodinger's Cup of Nations. But in the World Cup, they've had less success.

42:07But to be fair to them, there are very, in my opinion, fair mitigating circumstances. In 2018, they're the first side ever to be eliminated via fair play rules because they've accumulated too many yellow cards. In 2022, Sadio Mane, who, again, is very important to his team, the national team, he's injured prior to the tournament and they go to a tough England side. So now we're expecting them to sort of take the magic of what they've been able to do on the continent and transpose that into the World Cup. Okay, their opening game is against France. Of course, that went well for Senegal last time it happened.

42:36Back in 2002, 10 African nations represented at the World Cup. Are you saying that Senegal looked the best place or you have the best feeling about them in terms of African success? Or who else would you pick out? Yeah, Senegal 1A, Morocco 1B. Because they're in a group with New Zealand, all due respect to the Kiwis out there, I think Egypt. They're in New Zealand and Iran. Iran, it just doesn't feel like the preparations are, again, really conducive to them getting great results in this World Cup. They might have to be moving their base camp, everything that's going on at home. I'm sure they're under an immense amount of political pressure.

43:13So I do think Egypt, even Belgium is not the Belgium of eight years ago. I think they're probably another team that can get out of their group. Cote d 'Ivoire, unfortunately, have a very tough group with Ecuador, Germany, South Africa and Cape Verge. They haven't been so convincing in the last six months. And Algeria is just a complete unknown. Well, not to you, presumably, your native country. I still can't read them, honestly. Vladimir Pekovic, I think Jimbo, you probably know him better than me. He was in Syria for a long period of time. He is as illegible as a personality can be. First of all, he only speaks in Italian at his press conferences, even though we know he speaks and understands French very, very well.

44:00But he's like a sloth. He moves like two miles an hour. You can lob the most controversial question at him at a press conference. He'll completely diffuse it and cast it aside. he's as milquetoast as they come. And the fascinating thing for me, and it's something that I haven't been able to really get down to the heart of, is he actually like this as a person or is he putting up a front? Because the Swiss media, and I've been going and reading all these paywalled articles about his time there because he obviously spent such a long period of time as a Swiss national team coach. And remember, he had some very controversial moments there because in 2018, they played against Serbia.

44:36He has players of Albanian descent, Shreden Chichirian, Granit Xhaka score goals. They throw up the eagle sign. That's a very political situation. He was born and raised in Sarajevo. He knows the Balkans like the back of his hands. And there he's getting the questions. They're coming at him time after time after time again. And same thing. He just is a master at just either ignoring your question or answering just the nub of it and casting the rest aside. And so these Swiss journalists, please forgive me if you're listening. I forget the name. But they went to Bosnia to sort of find out and speak to people that know him.

45:06Like, is he actually this boring? Is he actually this dull? Or is there something way more complicated there that he's just protecting, that he's putting in front? And their interpretation was actually by speaking to people that sort of grew up with him and played with him as an amateur player. And some of his time with him early on in Switzerland when he was playing, when he was player coach of some very low level teams, was that actually, no, he's a very complicated figure. But because of some of the trauma that he's witnessed, because of things like the Yugoslavian Civil War, he's just learned to put up a front.

45:37Now, my question with that is, and sorry, I've been droning on a little bit about this, is can somebody like that get the best out of the Algerian national team? Because when we've had really good success, it's when we've had coaches that can sort of berate you, you know, yell at you, undress you in front of the dressing room, not literally, and then throw an arm around you. You know, it's like the Bielsa, Sampaoli. They said, we need that Mediterranean, you know, somebody to grab your shirt and scream in your face. Can Vladimir Pekovic do that? I'm not so certain. So that's why for me, like, they're completely illegible.

46:06They can go A or they can go left or they can go right. Filing them under unknowns then. So of the other nations, you touched on Ivory Coast, South Africa, Tunisia, Cape Verde, Democratic Republic of Congo, and Ghana, Maher. Yeah, like, I'm not really highly optimistic on any of those sets, in my opinion. Tunisia are just so uninspiring. I just said this on another podcast. Little Johnny sitting at home that's six years old watching his first World Cup is not going to be training on a Tunisian match and saying, you know, that's my second team. They have no attractive star player that's really bursting onto the scene.

46:44They don't play good football. They're very tough to beat. They didn't concede any goals in 10 games of World Cup qualifying. They're not going to, if they're going to win a match, it's not going to be by more than one goal. If they're going to win. I think their ceiling is going to be two points. Maybe they're going to try to draw versus Sweden and Japan. DRC are equally tough to beat and equally suffering from attacking problems. Ghana, I think, you know, the fact that they won't have Mohamed Kudus is going to be a big, big blow. He's somebody that, you know, with some players, he's delusional about his abilities, but that's what sort of makes him special at times.

47:20Like if you read some of his quotes prior to the 2022 World Cup, he was talking about being better than Neymar and stuff. But you want somebody to think they're the best player in the world. That's sort of what gives him that spark. And especially with Ghana, he is capable of taking the game by the scruff of the neck and really willing his team to victory. So I think, unfortunately, him not being fit is going to be a big, big issue for them. So to be honest, besides Morocco, Senegal, Egypt, and then I think Algeria is a wild card. And Cote d 'Ivoire have a very tough group, but they are pretty decent as well, particularly on the wings.

47:54Those are my teams from Africa that I think can actually do something at this time. All right, Maher. One last thing. Are you very worried about the game against Scotland? JJ's in the studio, right? So I'll say yes, we're very worried. Well, I want to know what you think though. No, honestly, I'm not going to lie to you. Most North Africans, most Moroccans are focusing on that first match against Brazil. I've been watching episode after episode, TV show after TV show of how Ancelotti is going to press us from goal kicks and this is what we need to do. They're really breaking the game down in granular fashion.

48:28Nobody's really paying attention to Scotland, which I'm assuming is something that should be really great for the Titan army. They feel like they're a better side than Scotland. They feel like there should be three points in the back. So, no, they're not really worried. A bit of a Bukovic-style deflection, I felt, the way he shifted across. I think he's been watching too much. Well, we'll see, eh? we'll see it's a cup competition you never know maher you're going to be heading across to new york on monday did you say monday correct yeah and i'm going to be doing good like a lot of journalists are doing this i'm going to be doing a road trip going up to canada down to mexico so all over the place with starlink unfortunately no ethical alternatives but uh yeah we'll have internet connection we'll be watching the matches brilliant hopefully we'll be speaking to you on your journey maher thank you so much for joining us today take care

49:21This is the Totally Football Show with James Richardson, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. Wow, we talked about Africa, talked about the hosts, talked of course about Scotland. What other nations should we be keeping an eye on? What are the dark horses that you think can spring a surprise? Philippe, you've already thrown this curveball by pitching Mexico as the most likely of the host nations. Who else do you think is going to be causing an upset at this World Cup? You know, I'm going to say one of the teams that I think could potentially be, even before they play a game and probably after they play a few games, as the team with the best spine in this World Cup, great defensive midfielders, great attacking midfielders, really strong back line, it's Ecuador.

50:16Ecuador is, to me, a team that I think you look at that group with Ivory Coast, Germany, Curaçao, and Ecuador, I don't think anyone is really looking forward to playing Ecuador, a team that doesn't concede very many goals, is finding their rhythm and very confident under their Argentine manager, Sebastian Begacheque. I got Cheque. Remember, in World Cup qualifying, they started with negative three points because of a FIFA scandal when a player played for Ecuador when he had the wrong birth certificate and other documentation that went to court and they penalized Ecuador. So they started at negative three points and just climbed the table consistently in World Cup qualifying.

51:01If they can figure out a way to score goals, Ecuador is going to be a problem. They will be a problem, like 100%. So that is, I think that's the one team that I think jumps out at me. Obviously, you know, Colombia, the country I love dearly. I was born there. My family is from there. They're a strong side, you know, Jimbo. I think this is a strong, veteran-led, experienced Colombian team with a few players that the world knows that are playing well, that are playing at a high level. And I'll mention Luis Diaz, of course, but Danny Munoz, I think one of the best, potentially one of the best right backs in world football playing for Crystal Palace.

51:41And then Hama Rodriguez, you know, I know he is, will turn 35 at the tournament, you know, struggled over the last few years with his club form. But when he, again, when he wears that yellow jersey, when he wears that yellow shirt, he really does transform. And that is the expectation this summer. All right. You did a lovely piece with him after his move in February. to Minnesota. He was essentially out of work before that. Another name who I think you're quite excited about is Juan Fernando Quintero. Why is that? I love him. I love him. Well, first of all, with James, I'll say this quickly when I sat down with him and saw him face to face.

52:21You know, just last, you know, two days ago, Colombia beat Costa Rica in a friendly and the Costa Rican players all lined up to take pictures with James Rodriguez. So, you know, he is one of those players, you know, despite how you may feel about him and whether he deserves to be where he is, et cetera, et cetera. He is still a global star. And what I took away from my sit-down is there is, for lack of a better word, there is a bit of an immaturity about him. Not that he is immature. It's almost like a boyish, childish, I think dreamy type of personality. And I think that's why he is so still connected to his national team because he still looks at those opportunities like a boy, like someone who was just given this opportunity to represent his country.

53:05He said the other day, if you're not feeling butterflies, don't play. And he still shows that. So that's how Mr. Rodriguez and Juan Ferro Quintero plays for River Plate now. These are two players that are part of this dying breed of throwback number 10s. Number 10s that just want the ball. Give me a touch. Give me another touch. I'll get it off your foot. I'll circulate the ball. And then, boom, I will slice you with a penetrating pass. So Juanfer Quintero is that player. I think he's one of the most beloved players in Colombia, has consistently played behind James Rodriguez, doesn't get the same amount of opportunities because of James, but still very much a capable player.

53:45And when they are on the same pitch together, there were 20 minutes or so against Costa Rica where James and Juanfer Quintero were together. And it was, I'm telling you, 1990s Colombian football. It was beautiful to watch. And that is the dream for a Colombian, if we can see that at the World Cup. OK, it sounds like they're going to be a lot more fun to watch than, say, Ecuador. Colin, did you have a point you wanted to make about the Ecuador team? Yeah, about Ecuador, but also about South American qualifying in general. You know, you play these 18 matches to get to the World Cup. Obviously, they have the one table.

54:18So these teams are very used to each other and to playing the other nations. but Ecuador conceding five goals across those 18 matches is such a remarkable defensive stat and they've only scored 14 but even more remarkably as you look at the qualification table and there was one point separated Ecuador, Colombia, Uruguay, Brazil and Paraguay so that shows you how competitive obviously it is but you look at the defensive records for each of those teams and it's not quite Ecuador level but it's very very strong and these teams must be so difficult to play against in terms of the physicality they have and they also play with that sort of typical South American intensity but they've got that organisation too and I know they're not from the Commonwealth section but Mexico were another really interesting example of this I think and Javier Aguirre, the manager who's kind of known very well maybe not from the English language world of football but certainly from the Spanish one and he managed multiple times in La Liga in Spain with multiple clubs and he was sort of seen as this kind of firefighter manager and he has this really strong reputation for being a very sort of motivational man-manager but for swearing a lot in press conferences, for bringing a lot of energy and a lot of sort of motivation and just sort of bringing a spark to his team and I think managers and coaches at this World Cup are really, really important because it is quite a long tournament and I think you have to have those sorts of blends together.

55:45so I think all this is quite interesting going into the tournament that there's probably not a lot between so many of the nations here 48 teams is 50 more than there ever has been but it's such a lengthy tournament that you know most teams think and even if we finish third in the group there's a good chance we progress so I think though I think the coaches are more important than ever in terms of how they how they can get the groups of players together and how they can manage their players and yeah tactics are always important of course but I think there's a lot more to it than that this time and it is about their sort of personal touch and about giving that energy to the players they have.

56:20So I'm really looking forward to seeing all these teams together. Okay. In which case, what do you think about Norway who a lot of people are mentioning as potential dark horses not least because of the presence of Erling Haaland in their ranks? Yeah, I mean it's obvious when you've got a player like Erling Haaland and Martin Odegaard as well but the attacking players that they have, Sorloth who's scored so many goals for Atletico Madrid, Jorgen Strand-Larsen who's a sort of third choice striker essentially for them but the club players like Oscar Bob, Antonio Nusser who's done really well at Leipzig in Germany but this is a real a real high point for Norwegian football in general because that Bodo Glimp squad that got that did so well in the Champions League and has done so well for years now that is almost essentially that that whole squad bar on two or three Danes is entirely Norwegian and Bodo Glimp aren't even the champions of Norway it's Viking and they're top of the league at the minute too and they pretty much got an entire Norwegian squad as well.

57:13So there's obviously a lot of strength and depth there. I think what makes Norway so good is the balance that they have because they have this attack and threat, but the rest of their team is so kind of workmanlike and there's a lot of players who know that they're there to serve, Erling Haaland to serve Martin Odegaard and Odegaard, who's probably one of those players who I think is actually better than what he's shown at club level in a way because I think Arsenal are all about what they do out of possession and off the ball. But he's that guy that brings that creative spark to him. And I think when he's in a structure, which is a bit looser in terms of the sort of front three or four, he can cause real, real damage.

57:54And you see what Norway did against Italy in those qualification matches. And you sort of think, oh, it's only 30 minutes and they're not playing well. But once that attack in Munich clicks, they're very hard to stop. You know, you talk a lot about these strong defences in the tournament, But if you've got goals, that's ultimately what can take you through to the largest stages. Well, they're in this group with France, Senegal and Iraq. And we mentioned Senegal's prospects and in the previous show, France. But that is a tough, tough group. Another interesting group is the one that features Netherlands, Sweden, Tunisia and Japan.

58:28JJ, I know that the Japanese side is one that you think could be springing a few surprises, as if indeed they even rank as surprises after the kind of performances they put in last time. In Qatar, Japan famously finished on top of a group which included both Spain and Germany, eventually going out to Croatia on penalties. Since then, they actually roared through their qualifying process. They became the very first team, apart from the host, to qualify for this year's tournament. They're currently on a run of six straight victories, beating Brazil, Ghana, Bolivia, Scotland and England in that run.

59:02and all in all, looking like they've got the credentials. To get an informed take, we dart up Japan-based football journalist Dan Oluwitz for his view on Samurai Blue. Dan, how are Japan looking coming into this World Cup? Hi, James. I think Japan are looking strong. It is arguably one of the best squads Japan has ever fielded at a World Cup. It's young, confident, but still with enough experience to know what they're facing. And certainly you just recited the list of friendly results and you go all the way back to those wins over Spain and Germany in Qatar. And this is a team that knows that you don't have to be afraid of anyone.

59:48And I think that's their biggest asset heading into this tournament. Last World Cup did seem like a real step forward for the Samurai Blue. Is this squad even better? I think in some ways it is. There was a lot of uncertainty heading into that World Cup. Poor results, some people calling for Hajime Moriasa to be fired ahead of that tournament, though who knows in retrospect who could have replaced them. we did not expect things to go well in what everyone agreed was a group of death and then they come and beat germany and all of a sudden uh the the vibes shift and you start to think oh maybe this team can do it and they went and beat spain in a brilliant game and took croatia literally as far as they could and yes they lost their nerve in penalty kicks but i think you look at how the experience that this squad has not just as a team but the individual players playing in Europe with some of the continent's top clubs in top competitions, winning trophies, winning recognition, winning honors.

1:00:53And this is a team that when Hajime Mordiasu says he wants to contend for the title, you know that he's serious. He's not just saying this to pacify the fans. He believes it. And you start to wonder if maybe you should believe it, too. Well, they're in a tough group again this time around with Tunisia, Netherlands, and Sweden, who look like they've woken up a bit. The backdrop of this, from the point of view of Japanese football's progress, is the extraordinary building program, both at league level, but also with the national team, where the stated plan is to win the World Cup by 2050. Is that right?

1:01:29Yes, that is correct. The JFA wants Japan to host the World Cup again by 2050 and to win it by 2050. and you look at the progress, the biggest wall that Japan has to get over is the round of 16. And you get the sense, and I say this, every World Cup, Japan can go as far as it wants to. And I think that once they get over the round of 16, that's kind of the last mental barrier. And I do think that if they can get past in this tournament, they can progress to the quarters or even the semis or, hey, if a few goals go their way in that game, maybe we'll be seeing them in New York at the end. That would be remarkable.

1:02:11The list of teams that they have beaten over the last four or so years means you have to, I think, see what Moriasso means when he says they can challenge for the title. One name that's going to be absent is Karo Mitoma from Brighton. The other players in the squad that Moriasso has chosen, who should we look out for? I think that, yes, Mitoma missing hurts the squad. But what has defined Japan over the last couple World Cups is that it's not bound to a savior. You don't have a Messi. You don't have a Ronaldo. You don't have a Neymar. It's a question of if someone gets hurt, if someone's not in good form, who's stepping up?

1:02:54Who's next? And you have to look at, in the midfield core, you look at Keito Nakamura, you look at Daichi Kamara, you look at Kaishu Sano at central midfield. The forwards are really interesting. You have a couple youngins in Keisuke Goto and Kento Shio Gai who are kind of the biggest surprises. Then you have Ayase Ueda, who just won the golden boot with Feyenoord. And he's absolutely going to be the key man up top. And if it's not him, it could be Dazen Maida, who ended this campaign for Celtic on fire. So there's plenty of attacking options. And you'll have, of course, players who are at this last World Cup, like Takefusa Kubo, like Ritsu Doan, who I think Kubo was in some ways one of the biggest disappointments of Qatar.

1:03:40but he's had four more years and he's matured a lot since then and he's going to be one of the leaders on the pitch. And I think that Japan work best when the squad is worth more than the sum of its parts and I think we see that potential in this squad. Brilliant. Dan, thank you so much. Thank you again. Dan Orowitz. I've watched a bit of Japan in my pre-tournament research. Okay, good. And they are one of the teams that I put initially on my dark horses list. Oh yeah. You've got to have some horses there. Who else is in that stable? Well, the ones that everyone else has got, it turns out. I'm not as unique as I want it to be.

1:04:19But Japan, there's something about this, and maybe a bit stupid again, is that they play in a very modern way. So they are very good at pressing, which is what everyone does, but they do it exceptionally well. They're also very good in counterattacks, going from back to front really quickly. So combined, they're very good at winning the ball back, and they don't really rely on individual stars, exactly what we were talking about. So there's just something about them that makes me think they will be really good. It's a different sport entirely. I remember the Rugby World Cup when Japan turned up and they just took everyone by surprise as well, playing like a really, they're really fun to watch and they're very quick going forward.

1:04:57I'm not saying it's a similar thing, but in my mind, I feel like that's what's going to happen from rugby into the football now with this going on, yeah. Perhaps so. Of course, they took the word of baseball by some as well. Well, maybe all the sports are going to be... Perhaps so. It's going to be interesting, isn't it? What a fantastic opportunity to see nations, cultures colliding on a sporting field in a celebration of human endeavour, etc. and so on. And cheap as well. And cheap, yeah. I can't wait to see everyone be really happy with the prices of lager there. I've heard that's really affordable as well.

1:05:32Right. Well, lots of us are going to be enjoying it from the comfort of some domicile. And it's going to be an incredible spectacle. No question. Of course, the time zones are going to make it slightly challenging for many people, particularly in the United Kingdom, where the games will be taking place through the night, the wee small hours. But the good news is you can awaken to a brand new serving of the Totally Football Show at the World Cup with your breakfast. We should be up, I think, by 7 a.m. UK time. That's the plan anyway. Felipe I'm looking forward to you joining us for that And best of luck for all the Excitements in Atlanta Leading up to that Many thanks for being with us today on the show My pleasure I can't wait Hey just so you know you can still buy a$2.50 Hot dog and beer At Atlanta Stadium The most affordable stadium at the World Cup Yes indeed I want to go to the Head out there JJ it's not too late JJ thank you for being with us today Thanks for having me, Jibbo.

1:06:33And thanks for providing the soundtrack to our summer. Colin, lovely to see you. If you've enjoyed Colin today, look out for the final of the InterTotally Cup, our grand quiz-a-thon, which Colin is featuring in. Wish him luck, everybody. Sharpen, take a breath. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, that should be out with you, I think, this Saturday. World Cup begins on the Thursday. We'll be with you throughout. out. Many thanks for joining us today and to producer Charlie and producer Jay. For now from all of us here, it's goodbye.

1:07:09You've been listening to The Totally Football Show, part of the Athletic FC podcast network. For other great podcasts just like this one, including The Athletic FC and our dedicated club podcasts, search for The Athletic in all the usual places. We're also at The Totally Show on Insta and at The Totally Show on YouTube. The Totally Football Show is an Athletic Media Company production.

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