Celia Imrie

0:04Hello and welcome to The Travel Diaries podcast, the podcast where I speak to some of the world's most fascinating people about the seven travel chapters that have shaped their lives. I'm your host Holly Rubenstein and today I'm joined by the iconic Celia Imrie. Celia is of course one of Britain's best loved actresses with an extraordinary career spanning more than five decades. From her unforgettable collaborations with Victoria Wood to Bridget Jones' Diary, Calendar Girls, The Best Exotic Marigold Hotel, and more recently, The Thursday Murder Club, and actually, of course, Celebrity Traitors as well.

0:42She's one of those performers who has been a part of our lives for as long as I can remember. But what you might not know about Celia is that she is a completely insatiable traveler. She is happiest when she's on the move, whether that's aboard a glamorous ocean liner, traveling across America by train, or setting off on an adventure somewhere entirely unexpected. Because as you'll soon discover, Celia doesn't fly. So this makes for a particularly interesting episode, I think. Her lifelong love of travel is at the heart of her new book, The Elegant Hustler, Adventures from a Life on the Move, which is out now.

1:20It's a collection of stories from a life spent exploring the world and a really enjoyable, heartwarming read. I spoke to Celia a couple of weeks ago in London. If you're listening, you can also watch this interview on your podcast apps. If you're wondering where the video has been, by the way, these last couple of weeks, I had some feedback that the video wasn't loading on some episodes. So I switched them all to audio only just to make sure everybody was definitely getting a chance to hear them. But this is video and all the others are now being republished as video again. So let me know if you're watching and enjoying it or if you're having any issues.

1:57I think that this is all pretty new for the podcast platforms and they're all trying to integrate with each other. And it's not necessarily all marrying up. So fingers crossed it is all sorted now. I would say that this interview got off to a little bit of an awkward start. But then we really had a lovely and fascinating conversation. and I really loved hearing about Celia's travel diaries. So without further ado, let's buckle up and get started.

2:29Celia, welcome to the travel diaries. It is amazing to see you. How are you? Very good, thank you. Why is it so amazing? Well, because there is the legend of Celia that I grew up with because I went to the same school as you. I only found out this morning. Just now. Just now. And so whenever we had our drama classes, I did Theatre A-level. We were always trying to aspire to a Celia level of career. Well, you see, that's where it really all started. Because Miss Nisbet, who you wouldn't have known, gave me the part of Jessica in Merchant of Venice. And I lived for it. Well, you know, because you went to the Yvonne Arno Youth Theatre.

3:15So, you know, at that age, it's all you live for, really. That and my ballet dancing. Both. Yeah. So you had a love of performing right from the beginning. Showing off. Yes. And were you like that with your family as well? Or was this when you got onto the stage? Well, I was number four out of five. So I had quite a lot to make a noise about. Because you're neither the top, the bottom, or the favorite. So, yes, I'm sure that's why. Who was the favorite? I think my brother. because he was surrounded by girls. Oh, right, right. Well, I think that was one of the first questions you were going to ask me about childhood memories.

3:55Yes, even in those days, because quite a lot of us, we took two cars and our destination was Middleton-on-Sea, which is next door to Bognor Regis. I know it well. Do you? Yeah, my aunt lives in Feltham, so just up the road. Oh, yes, yes, yes. and we used to go there every year but I think my the thrill of that holiday really and it was the one thing that my father was so pleased about my father was a radiologist and he really wanted us all to be medical two of my sisters are angels because they're nurses but the one thing he was so pleased that we all loved was going on horseback which is travel isn't it?

4:41So I thought I'd throw that in because that's my memory, not only of the journey with two cars, but when we got to Middleton, see, there was a riding school next door and we all used to take, we took to it like ducks to water actually and rode along the beaches. That's my memory of my childhood holidays. And the reason he was so pleased was because he was known as the galloping doctor on epsom downs he used to ride out to the jockeys to see whether they'd broken any bones wow he was quite a doctor that's a movie that needs to be late isn't it yeah and i still have a picture of him on horseback and he i think he was so delighted that we loved it as much as he obviously had yeah so you mention in your fabulous new travel memoir the elegant hustler that these childhood travels to Middleton on sea even though it was only was it about 54 miles away from home it may as well have been a thousand miles because it had that kind of excitement of a holiday.

5:50Well yes I think all children do don't they but the only extraordinary thing about it as my life went on is that I got to the age of 22 and I'd never been abroad before which I'm sure is unusual now because most kids have been abroad age two and was that do you think because there were just simply so many of you that it would have been hard to organize a trip probably but you see um in those days um air travel for instance was only for film stars really and so uh it would have been too expensive to go far afield and I suppose by the time um I got going um working um that came first really so the idea of taking a holiday once I'd started to work professionally as a chorus girl actually is how I started um I uh forewent any possibility of taking time out for a holiday a because of the money and b because I wanted to get the next job yeah so really and truly that's what took over that's the tough thing about being in any performing uh profession isn't it because you're going from job, you're only as good as your last job type thing, isn't it?

7:04Yes, and holidays don't come into it. In fact, even now, I hesitate to escape for a while just in case something, some irresistible job comes that you want to take. Is your life as an actor now mapped out years into the future? Lord, no. No. Are some actors' lives like that? Or is it more kind of... I guess if they're, you know, in a series or something, but I hate being trapped. I like to escape always. And so I love not knowing what's next. Well, you start the bit by saying you're never, never more happy than being on the move. It is. So is it actually about the traveling itself or is it about getting to a new destination?

7:55I think it's both really. I love, I mean, there's so much to discover. But generally, if I think about it, it generally is connected to work. There are very few of my travels that I talk about, I suppose, that are holidays, really. And within your work, what kind of sets have been the most, therefore, kind of self-satisfying to be able to be visiting? Oh, India, of course. India. I mean, you couldn't not. Yeah. I mean, what a bonanza of a job that was. A, for the cast. I mean, there's no order. But to go, I had been to India many years before with the Merchant of Venice, bizarrely, playing a different part, for a British council tour.

8:50But, you know, once you go, it's unforgettable. and I suppose the truth is people either love it or hate it probably because it's so extreme but I absolutely adored it so really and truly without hesitation that was the place that took my breath away So you were there filming the Best Exotic Marigold Hotel Twice In fact we met very briefly on the red carpet back in the day for the lovely red carpets What was I wearing? Something marvellous I'm not sure what you were wearing but I remember that everybody was wearing beautiful garlands. Do you remember that? Yes, I do. But I also remember, it's the reason really why I asked you what was I wearing because I think it was the first Exotic Marigold Hotel, talking of travel, when I was doing a play, Noises Off, at the old Vic Theatre.

9:43And I had a wonderful agent who I told, what am I going to do? I'm going to miss the premiere. I'm going to miss the red carpet. and his name was Michael Foster and he said, well, I'm going to ask the old Vic Theatre to hold the curtain for half an hour, unheard of. So I did the red carpet in a beautiful Indian silk of some sort, got back onto a police taxi motorbike. With a gown on? With my gown on and a helmet and everything else like that. raced across London on the back of this motorbike because we're talking about travel aren't we and hurtled into the Old Vic Theatre where I then had to don a pair of slippers and an overall to play Mrs, I've forgotten her name now but anyway, in, noise is off That's so funny How on earth do you process that scenario shift?

10:42Do you have to take a moment to take a break get out of all the excitement of those flashing light bulbs and into the characters. I suppose, but it was just so gloriously extreme. It made me laugh. Exhinerating. And I was so thrilled to be able to do both. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I was going to come on to the Best Exotic Marigold Hotel, but as we're here, where in India was it filmed for people who aren't on to where? Udaipur was where the actual hotel was and it was quite a long way from where we were staying, about an hour and a half drive actually, and Jaipur. And what were your impressions of those cities and how much time did you get to spend in them?

11:29People keep asking me and I've sort of forgotten how long we were there. I think it was probably about eight or nine weeks each time, I think. Amazing. So you're living there. You're really getting to live there then. Well, you are, but, you know, we were in, I mean, I'm going to say 10 star hotel, it felt like. I mean, gloriously luxurious and particularly for the dames, Dame Judy and Dame Mags. but the coming out of the hotel was shocking and unforgettable because I would look to the side and there'd be a little girl looking for a cabbage leaf. And the extreme was very, very hard to swallow, really.

12:22And it's also very hard to put it into words without sounding patronising, But the people that I saw have absolutely nothing. You know, we used to travel at sort of five in the morning to get to the place. So you'd see them waking up with their little lights and the stalls on the side of the road. But they have absolutely nothing. And yet they're joyous and full of smiles. And my God, it teaches you humility, I hope, that can stay with you forever. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that is the thing about India, isn't it? It's a world of such contrast and opulence and poverty just side by side. And it is tricky sometimes to navigate it emotionally, but it seems to lodge in people's hearts.

13:15You don't forget it. Yeah. So did you get to go out with the cast and explore the local area much? Well, Dame Penelope Wilton and I used to escape on tuk-tuks and go completely not allowed and go into the village. And we were always welcomed and we had a wonderful time. We were quite hard at it most of the time. So there wasn't a lot of spare time. Although I did used to go off. I realized that I'd gone off exploring temples by myself, which, again, I found out you weren't allowed to do. Is this for insurance reasons? Are you not allowed to do it? I'm not sure. I mean, the temples are very sacred, obviously.

14:03Maybe they just prefer people to come in groups. I'm not sure. But in any case, I always break the rules. Did you take any trains in India? Because, of course, the trains are legendary. Any routes that stick out? Well, because I don't like to fly, I had two pulmonary embolisms and the doctors said, you know, if you can avoid flying, do. So why not? Of course I had to fly to India because there was no other way in the time. But the minute I got to Delhi, I jumped on the train and it was marvellous actually. And the producer, Al Parker and John Madden were at the exact carriage door when I arrived, I remember.

14:48And I went through the night. from Delhi to Udaipur. There was no first class. Well, there was a first class, but I had to share it with a young gentleman who got into his pyjamas rather too quickly, I thought. But anyway, it was extraordinary. And then on the way back, I also took the train from Udaipur to Jaipur. And as a lover of train travel, was this, you know, extremely exciting? Was it challenging? You know, I've heard, I haven't been on Indian trains myself, but they can be challenging. They're crowded. They're busy. Food being eaten everywhere. What was your impression of it? My lasting impression was of this gentleman of probably 70 or even 80 throwing himself onto the roof of the train to make sure that he could climb down and get a seat when the train actually stopped in the station.

15:48Oh, wow. I mean, and, you know, there are sort of, you know, the gaps in between the carriages and everything just to the open air. I mean, it's, but there's no space. But it's sort of, well, it's sort of wonderful and, you know, very famous, the Indian railways, aren't they? Yeah, yeah. I think built by the English, is that right? Yeah, I think they are, yes. Well, they're still going. And they're used by so many people every day. And I guess that's quite exciting to experience. I mean, literally on the roof, hanging out of the windows. But, you know, this is what happens. Only in India, yeah.

16:32This is what happens. Yeah. And if a car walked across the path, I mean, I didn't see this. I've only seen it with cars. You know, everything stops for the car to walk across. Not a train, probably, but I don't know. But certainly the cars. Oh, yeah, yeah. They are sacred. Sacred, they're the priority. And did you, and the dames, and the incredible cast, did you have more of a, I don't know, a familial relationship or an ensemble feeling because you're abroad? Because it's almost like a great holiday. Well, yes, and actually we did have, I don't think we had Zooms in those days. But, I mean, you couldn't do mobiles and you could do emails if you wanted to.

17:24But the thing is, being so far away, it's much better to just be where you are, you know, and not hanker to be home. And, of course, it becomes a bit like a theatre company. Yeah. Because we're all staying in the same place. and obviously you know when we had second helpings with the same cast and additions it was very very special and yes of course we became close because it was unforgettable for us all I think yeah so special well we move on to chapter two and that is the first place you fell in love with where I captured your heart first well funnily enough if I think about it the first time I went abroad when I was 22 was on a world tour with Glenda Jackson to Australia, Los Angeles, Washington and Toronto.

18:19Oh, and Sydney. Sorry, I missed out Sydney. So anyway, I flew stopping off at Singapore, which was thrilling because I'd never seen anything like it. Then I went to Melbourne, Sydney, Los Angeles, Washington and Toronto. But apart from Singapore, Melbourne I found I couldn't believe I'd flown so far and ended up in Cheltenham I couldn't believe it was so English I mean that's unfair and I'll get into trouble because I'm sure it's lovely now this was in 75 that's really interesting you can't say anything without making a story about it but and it was completely mind blowing to be my first time ever abroad but when I came back I was first taken by a friend of mine to Montmartre in Paris where all the artists were and all the steps and the sacre car and everything else and the street markets and the different languages well no the different language then I felt for the first time properly I was broad.

19:37Because like you say, I guess all the other places were English speaking. Yeah, exactly. And it makes a huge difference. Totally. And what intoxicated you about Paris first? I think the smell of the jeton cigarettes, the garlic, the, I mean, fruit and vegetables like nothing on earth. and I remember they have all these beautiful frozen vegetables and food in the street and then wash the streets twice a day and then, you know, the women were also chic and smart and I don't know, just it was marvellously different to anything else. And do you still go back there now? I do because I'm very lucky and I have a place in Nice.

20:29I wish my French was better. It's shocking. But I do understand it better, and I think it's the most beautiful language. So when you're going to Nice, you go to Paris and then take the train down. Exactly. Oh, lovely. Exactly. So for people who feel like they know Paris, is there a place that you feel like they should still try and discover, like a hidden gem? Yes. When I saw you were going to ask me about a hidden gem, I thought, well, I'm not going to tell you what my hidden gem is, otherwise everybody will go there and it won't be secret anymore. However, there's a place called La Chapelle, which really has to be seen.

21:08You go in, it's sort of like a church. I don't know how people would describe it, but anyway, the stained glass windows all around you are magnificent and really just go in and take a deep breath and have a look. So is it a historic structure, a historic building? Yes, it's very near the Notre Dame. Oh, right. But now I went to see the new refurbishments of the Notre Dame and actually, again, the craftsmanship that has gone into reconstituting the original. Yeah. I mean, it's perfection and such care has been taken and it is all restored. However, unlike the old days, you now go and you queue probably for about four hours.

21:59To get in? Really? So I was in Paris in the summer, hadn't been for years, and I didn't go inside. I saw it from the river. But did you see the queues? No, I didn't see the queues. So I wonder when the best time of day would be, well, to avoid it. I mean, the thing is, I am flummoxed at the moment because there are so many people about. Yeah. I know that sounds naive, but really there are so many people about. Post-COVID maybe, people just wanting to tick places off their bucket list now. Possibly. Yeah. And I mean, it's great that, you know, a place like Notre Dame, which is the heart of Paris, and it is so revered and cherished.

22:52Yes. And La Chapelle is very, very near there. And it is a bit of a secret, but it is. Chapelle. Everybody should go. Okay. And there is some wonderful. I think there's a Museum of Magic in Paris, which is rather wonderful too.

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24:13See if you could pay as little as$0 for therapy in seconds at growtherapy.com slash start now. That's growtherapy.com slash start now. growtherapy.com slash start now. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. So we move on to Chapter 3, Celia, and that's the place where you learn the most about yourself. Well, we've touched on it really, and I would say India. Right. No question. Yeah. I guess just what formative in terms of a perspective shift, would you say? um i i i'm not sure how to how to put it really but it does make you um look at yourself and realize um you know how lucky we are i mean the but you see then the indian people that i met they felt lucky too it's so hard to put it into words and make yourself not sound patronizing and I don't mean it to be at all but I mean I can remember in the hotel in Jaipur for instance this is what so it's hard to take sights out of your head there were really quite old ladies and I'm talking about 70 I would say.

25:47They were dressed in saris the exact same color as the grass and they were hand weeding the borders and I can remember saying good morning to them or namaste I think is what you say and them being so shocked that anybody was talking to them You know, and that's, things like that happened when I was there And I'll never forget the sight of it But then the next day, the son of the Maharaja of Jodhpur was being married Wow And the rehearsal beforehand, all the elephants came in with their toes painted pink. Oh, my goodness. Yes. And the white horses all came in for a rehearsal the night before, you know, and carriages.

26:48And I remember the son of the Maharaja of Jodhpur getting, the bridegroom, arrived in a turquoise Rolls Royce. Oh, so colourful. Well, yes, and glorious. And then I looked over to one side and a sea of saris, all the lady guests, because actually there was the ladies on one side and the gentlemen on another in their gold and white.

27:17But huge expense for this wedding. Lots of Sting was there. Bob Geldof was there. What, performing? No. As a guest? The Duchess of York, I remember. And then, of course, they suddenly spied Dame Mags and Dame Judy. And they are icons in India. So because of them, we were all invited to the wedding. Wow. But, you know, you've got the two things going on all the time. And that is often the case with travel, isn't it? I mean, you do have that in so many different cultures. But, wow, what an unbelievable experience to see an elephant with his nails painted. Oh, yes, and I think he had eyelashes and everything.

28:04It was quite marvellous. Oh, my goodness me, how incredible. And I wanted to ask you a little bit about the Isle of Wight because I saw that you lived there for many years, was it? Yes. Funnily enough, I'd written on my piece of paper that, along with Middleton on sea, where I went as a child, I also went to Hailing Island, and I can remember one day going to the Isle of Wight on the train with my mother and absolutely loving it. And this is when I was a child. And then I bought my first house in the Isle of Wight. Your very first house. My very first house. Wow, so it captured your heart really quickly.

28:45My son was born there. No way. Yes. So where in the Isle of Wight did you live? Cows. And what made you choose it? Because I didn't have to have a car. So I can remember very well. I was working at the National Theatre doing The Sea with Dame Jude, and I'd get on to the train at Waterloo Station. It took about an hour and a quarter, let's say, to Southampton Central. Yeah. Jump on the little bus that will take you to the Red Jet, and then 25 minutes on the Red Jet, get off and walk about two minutes to my house. Oh, so you never, oh, how easy and how lovely. I do think there's something, well, I mean, you're a big fan of ocean liners, but I mean, I guess even then, was it, did you enjoy going on the ferry and kind of that feeling of departing on the water?

29:37Suddenly your shoulders go down, you start to breathe. And also, only people that really love you come and visit you. So it separates the wheat from the chef. I didn't realise that the island was nearly entirely, no, the whole island in fact is a UNESCO biosphere reserve. Is it? Yes. It is rather magical because it's got so many different facets. Yes. You know, cows is famous for sailing. I wouldn't have a clue about that, but it's the nearness that I love. But then on the other side, you've got the cliffs. And when you watch around the island racing, you know, in their ships, in their yachts rather, you can see all the different, the Sandown and Ventnor and each part of the island has got a different sort of feel.

30:32Yes, and a different geography. How would you spend your kind of perfect day off there? In the Isle of Wight? Well, having an ice cream is the first thing to do, whether it's breakfast, lunch or tea. Having a swim, if you can, is always heaven. I think, you know, there are various places where, and I don't want to say it wrong, but there are various places where to watch the sunset is magnificent. I used to bike a lot, actually. I also did the Bob Geldof Run For Your Life. You remember when we all, you're probably too young. I don't remember. I mean, obviously I know Bob Geldof's fundraising, but not the Run For Life.

31:18I think it was called Run For Your Life and you had to run, I think it was probably five miles or something. And I was determined to do it. I mean, I loathe running actually, but I was determined to do it for the charity. and I realised how up and down the Isle of Wight is. The route we had to take, it was really uphill and down dale all the way around, much more difficult than on a track. Yeah, I don't think that people necessarily realise that, like how kind of interesting the terrain is there. I mean, it is one of the hidden gems, which is why I don't talk about it too often. It totally is a hidden gem.

31:59And what I think is so nice that you say is that it feels as though you're really going on a holiday when you go over there, even though it's not a big schlep if you're in the South England. And there are places where you think you've gone back in time. Yes. It's quite unspoilt at the moment anyway. And do you go back there still? I do. I'm going to the literary festival in about a month's time. Oh, wonderful. And it will be thrilling to go back. and that moment getting on the ship. And their literary festival is a big festival, isn't it? They have an amazing line-up. Huge, and I started it. You started it?

32:34I was in the first one. I said, honestly, you should have something like this. That's wonderful. I didn't realise that. I'm very proud of that. With my friend, Fidelis Morgan, who I've written a book with. So it was both of us. And she has been by your side through all these formative travels. And I was going to ask about her and your relationship what what do you think it is that makes such a great travel companion well we were both on the world tour when we were 22 um she makes me laugh and um when i get in a muddle you know she'll just laugh at me and also she's very very good at organizing routes and and also it's very um lucky to find a friend who you don't mind traveling with totally because it can be quite stressful.

33:26It can ruin a friendship. Things can go wrong. Yes, it can. Yeah. But it's, but I suppose the difference is it's not really holidays we go on. We're generally working or, you know, having a purpose. Right. So I think, yes, I think that makes a difference. But anyway, we're very lucky. That's so nice. Well, our next chapter is the big ones. Your all time favorite destination, chapter four. What comes to mind for that? Of course, When I landed in Nice, I did fall in love with the place. And I'm so thrilled that I went out one day. Apparently, this is a cliche. I didn't realize it was because it really did happen to me.

34:09I went out for a baguette and came back with a flat. I've never done such a thing. That's a very spontaneous thing to do. And, but really my answer to you would be anywhere by the sea, first of all, but anywhere by water. Yeah. Makes me feel happy. Oh, I so agree. And it's a clever thing. The sea, I think, particularly, it makes you feel very full of strength and energy and power. And yet, tiny and unimportant. And you should be so lucky. Do you know what I mean? It's a wonderful two things it gives you. Two different dynamic forces. You say as the seagulls caught in the background here by the Thames.

35:05The Thames is fabulous too. I mean, it's absolutely beautiful. But anywhere where I am, by water, is my favorite. so honing in a little bit on Nice because I know that it was a very special place for you you said that in a way buying that flat kind of ultimately saved your your life you were it was a very difficult time what did what did Nice give to you I love it because it's a very busy city as well as being breathtakingly beautiful I mean it just gets on with itself you know I look I go onto the balcony at five in the morning and people are at it they're working already um the beach is not um sandy I'm afraid that's the one drawback perhaps so if you go swimming it's best to wear some shoes I love to greet the sun in the morning it all sounds very romantic but I really do I I time it so that I see the sun um coming over the horizon and it always thrills me I love the freshness of the food I think France must win hands down actually because you go to the market and you come round a corner and you think what is that beautiful perfume and it's the strawberries Really, so aromatic Yeah, and they take their food very seriously And I don't think you can get a bad dish in France, actually.

36:40But Nice particularly I love. I love their dancing. You know, if there's a carnival, which there is always, or some fete somewhere, fete rather, the young kids are very, very proud to dress up in their national uniform, national costume sorry um the girls have little black boroughs and red and white striped um sticking out skirts they have little um caps they look absolutely like little dolls and the men and the young men too in their sort of britches and i find it very touching they will be seen doing the national dancing. Is it like their equivalent of Morris dancing type thing? You could not compare the two.

37:34No. You could not if you want but I mean there's there's no comparison. I don't understand Morris dancing at all. This is much more elegant. Yes and much more beautiful. And are they dancing with each other? Yes and they you know they do well-known dances and everything. I don't know but generally you will see them around and they have no shyness these particularly the young men looking really from another era actually but so proud to wear their national costume oh I love that and I also like the idea of young people being uninhibited to dance because I feel as though like suddenly my generation when we were growing up for really would always be a self-conscious about that kind of thing.

38:23It's like a bit uncool. Well, this is, Nice is proud of it. It's the most beautiful place. Well, we move on to chapter five, the hidden gems. Now, I know we mentioned one already, but there must be some beautiful hidden gems around Nice that you can share a couple with us. There are many trips you can take on buses for one euro fifty. it's extraordinary that's the other thing it's brilliant about Nice all over the place and Escoffier came from Villeneuve-Lube and he is famous for having invented the peach melba apparently at the Savoy but that's where he's from and so if you take a trip out there to his birthplace you will get a free peach melba or you did when I went delicious and was it as good as you had hoped yes I guess beautiful French peaches well yes I mean that's the other thing because the French love their food so much you know when they do do a celebration of um you know it's it's marvelous the chestnuts or the mushrooms or or the um oranges you know because there's a whole place along the coast montan where they have the orange and Lemon Festival, they celebrate their food so much that the chances are you go there and you get a free sample, which I always think is a good idea.

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41:50And we talked at the start about the fact that for how long has it been that you've not flown? Oh, Lord. Well, apart from, as I say, I did go to India. India, yeah. I suppose about, oh Lord, I think I stopped in about 2005 or something like that. Right, so a long time, 20 plus years. But it hasn't stopped you from travelling? No, because I love, my favourite thing is to go from Southampton to New York on the Queen Mary 2. Honestly, if you haven't tried it, I implore people to have a go. Now, I really wanted to ask you about this because I have to be honest, I don't get it. I've not done it, but I don't understand it.

42:44Well, because I understand with cruising that you can see multiple places, but that, as you say, is a voyage. So what I wondered is like, what do you, what do you see apart from lots of water? Well, funnily enough, I've just done a bit of stop starting on Queen Anne. Oh, yeah. And I couldn't be bothered with it. I don't like all that stop starting. You get on at Southampton and it's the only liner in the world and you go straight and you land in New York. Of course, there is only oceans to see on the way. but if I tell you that there are there's so much to do there are classes that you would have to pay for on land and if I told you that I was I joined a fencing class in the middle of the Atlantic I did rather well apparently yeah you know there's there's French classes there's you know all sorts of things like golf and tennis and pickleball and all these things there's line dancing there's ballroom dancing of classes you can join um you can also do a lot of work um on this one uninterrupted six days because on flight journeys I think there's so much anxiety of getting there early going through customs, waiting for your flight and the horror of taking off.

44:24I mean I still can't breathe properly when that happens because I don't understand it. I don't understand how an aeroplane gets into the air. I feel you. I don't get it. That I don't get. On the ship I do but I don't understand. So you've got all that but also and I know people would say well it's all right for you as they so often do but actually if you work out you have your hotel room which is pretty luxurious for six days combined with your travel ticket combined with all the food you can eat free is that's all the food you can eat is a deal Oh, wow. I'd find it hard to restrain myself. Well, yes, that's hard, actually.

45:16But seriously, it's sort of unbelievably quite a good deal. Yeah. And what is it, say when you're three nights in and you're in the middle, you're a dot in the middle of the ocean, do you, what's the environment like? Like, I mean, are there waves that are hugely swelling? Yes, I love that. You do? Absolutely love it. Yeah. On Queen Mary, you can go on the second deck and watch the waves sort of smashing into the windows. You can actually see dolphins and whales and things. Rarely, but you can. You can run around the deck if you want to or walk around, have the wind in your hair, Dress up and go to the balls, join in the dancing, join in the painting, whatever you like, and then spend the rest of the time saying hello, sailor.

46:18It sounds very relaxing, essentially, because there's nowhere to be apart from where you want to be. It is, but you can get things done. You can use the time without the anxiety of stop starting. So every time you go to the US, you're taking this log voyage to get there. And then often because it's the West Coast, a train across the whole country. Three days, three nights. Wow. And Americans particularly look at me as if I'm bonkers because they're not cherished. They're not so into their trains, are they, in the US? No, really not. Even though there are some amazing routes. And it gives you an unbelievable understanding of how huge the country is.

47:05The scale. You couldn't possibly get it from the air. No. I don't think. Do you always do the same route across? Mostly. And so what are the kind of highlights of that journey? There are rocky mountains, you know, orange, pink, sort of orange and pink mountains. There's the Mississippi. There's Roadrunners, if you're lucky, if you're going by New Orleans that way. Eagles. And there's marvelous observation cars as well. But there are also sites which would be unbelievable to a lot of Americans, I think. If I tell you, and of course I'll get to trouble for this, but it was another sight that you don't forget.

47:59Mile upon mile upon mile of cows all smashed together in these very, very tight pens. Oh, God. On their way to McDonald's, I suppose. Anyway, it's grisly. And you just. But it's there. You're just kind of rattling past and seeing these. Yeah, but it's unbelievable. and the other thing is there are places that families are living in burnt out cars. Now a lot of Americans I'm quite sure have never seen such sights. Those are the two worst ones and they are, you know, you don't forget them. They are a reality. That's the thing with train travel, isn't it? You're seeing the world, you're going by as the world continues in all of its different places and you're getting little snapshots of people's realities.

48:52It's rather wonderful because in the old days in the train carriage, you'd have a list of where you're going, which is quite interesting, and the stations. They don't stop at all of them. But every station is the world's capital of rubber, the world's capital city of um i'm trying to think all the sort of mad things that they lino the world's capital city of um horse racing or something you know they'd be very sort of peculiar things but they are the world's capital of of these different industries very that's intriguing in itself isn't it and of all of the train journeys that you've taken what would you say is the one that everyone should do once in a lifetime and what side of the carriage should they sit on um it's the i think it's called the surf liner i need to be checked on that probably the surf liner goes for um down the west coast to uh los angeles and it's breathtaking because the hugeness of the sea and the beaches and you must sit by a window where does it start and end well i got it from umst louis obispo i remember oh yeah and then came down it's on the west coast so the pacific coast highway basically yeah and i think it's called the pacific surf liner that's right well it's yeah magnificent amazing variety of terrain in such a short journey as well isn't it with the mountains behind and then the coast on the other side so almost whatever side of the train you're sitting on you're getting great views well that's the great thing about the um observation carriages because they're glass all around that's so great isn't it i wish there were more trains like that had observation carriages in the uk i know they don't because we have amazing landscape that we could take in here as well we need some better train journeys here in england in my opinion so our penultimate chapter is chapter six and that is your worst travel experience or the place that you would just never go back to yeah but you see again I'll get into trouble for this because I've already um expressed my worst place um and I got into the lift when I was on Queen Anne last week and they said well we had a lovely time anyway I'm just going to I feel like my my listeners are um much more gentle with my guests well I took my son to the ice hotel in Norway and I did not understand when I got there what on earth am I doing sleeping on a block of ice covered in reindeer skin both of us are pescatarian anyway and I just didn't see the point of it you froze all night long you you then came out of your bedroom or your ice hole in the morning thinking, well, I know what I'll do.

51:59I'll get up really early and I'll go to breakfast and nobody else will be about, not at all. The entire hotel, the entire ice hotel had the exact same feeling and everybody was in the changing room trying to rub their red noses. I have to say I have always been perplexed by the ice hotels. Obviously, the carvings of the ice are very impressive, But ultimately... They melt. Yes. Ultimately, I always think with a hotel that you want to stay somewhere that you would hopefully be even more comfortable than you would be at home. And it... I mean, I'm glad we did it. Was it a thing that you were glad you pleased to have done it?

52:38Yes, but I mean, I shan't be going back. Was it really cold? Yes, of course. Yeah, yeah. Did you... And then you see if it starts to melt a little bit, bit then it's even worse because then you're on a sort of ice rink walking along because you know it starts to melt and then freezes up again did you do any cool adventures well that's the thing it becomes too dangerous for the horses or for the huskies you know if it's too slippery yeah they cancel it quite rightly you know because if you can go on a horse-drawn carriage it was a very trendy thing to do wasn't it in in its moment and I feel like maybe it and I'm sure yeah you know I'm sure people some people love it yeah but um not for you not not one to do again no well Celia it has been so lovely to chat to you we are on to the very final chapter of your travel diaries and that is chapter seven which is the destination that remains at the top of your travel bucket list I'd love to see Japan and China actually I don't know how I'd get there I'm sure there's a way but just because I would love to see another culture, another part of the world I mean actually I would love to have gone to Russia because I'd love to see the ballet dancers I'm not sure that's going to be allowed but anyway so that's yes, that's the top Siberian Express I guess would be a very romantic journey.

54:10No, no, not now. I was hoping to do that. Yeah. But were you going to ask me about what was important to take with me? Is that part of your question? It's not one of the travel chapters, but I would love to know what is important to take with you as we wrap up. I would like the lady or gentleman who invented wheels on suitcases to be knighted. Because I think it's the most marvellous thing and the most important thing for you to have an expandable suitcase, light, but with really, really smooth wheels. Couldn't agree. And whoever invented it really should have some sort of accolade or… They should have a station on that US journey, the world's best suitcases.

55:04Yes. I'm sure there is one, but whoever invented it, hats off. Fabulous. Thank you so much, Celia Emery. Those were your travel diaries. The Elegant Hustler, an absolute joy. Thank you. Thank you, Holly.

55:23A huge thank you to Celia for joining me on the podcast. If you enjoyed hearing Celia's stories, you'll absolutely love her new book, The Elegant Hustler Adventures from a Life on the Move, which is out now. Thanks so much for listening today. As always, if you enjoyed today's episode, remember to hit follow or subscribe on your podcast app of choice to make sure that you never miss an episode. Do share the podcast with someone you think might love it. And if you feel like it, leave us a lovely rating or review. It really does make such a difference. If you want to find out who is joining me on next Tuesday's episode, come and follow me on Instagram or TikTok.

56:00I'm at Holly Rubenstein. And don't forget, we've got another episode of the podcast, Unpacked, coming out on Sunday. Until then, wishing you guys all safe travels and most love. Thank you.

56:41Personal price plan. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state.