Tom Allen

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1:16Hello and welcome to the Travel Diaries podcast. I'm your host, Holly Rubinstein. And here each week we uncover the seven chapters of my guests' travel diaries. From the first place they fell in love with, to their all-time favourite destination, their hidden gem, to what's at the top of their travel bucket list. Today's guest is one of the country's best-loved comedians and presenters. My favourite thing about the hotel was they had signs everywhere that said, No Reserva. Don't reserve your sunbeds. You can't reserve your sunbeds.

1:46Tom Allen: I, meanwhile, had swanned off with this random family and, sort of like Ginger Rogers in a film, was sat coquettishly at a bar with a Coca-Cola at this point. Just hearing the ocean, Cake by the Ocean. We did have Cake by the Ocean, actually. It was all inclusive. I was convinced if I went to New York, I would find my people and I'd work everything out. I must tell you about this butt I saw in San Francisco. I wanted to go to San Francisco and I found it so thrilling. I had really struggled to come out and I found it very vulnerable. And I've been very frightened of coming out as a teenager when I was at school.

2:21Tom Allen: I think at that time I was too ashamed to go, I haven't got any friends, will you be my friend? whereas actually that's the most confident thing you can do. We stayed in Anne Hotel. And I always say Anne Hotel in the old school grammar. Whoever Anne Hotel is. That was the wonderful Tom Allen. You'll know him from Bake Off an Extra Slice, The Apprentice You're Fired, Would I Lie to You? And of course his brilliant stand-up comedy. He's also a fabulous writer and his debut new novel Common Decency is out now. And as you can imagine today, Tom's travel diaries are full of glorious detail. We talk about childhood holidays, package holidays, solo travel, America, Japan, Spain, the joy of a great hotel, and why food is so often the thing that makes a place unforgettable.

3:06Before we kick off, I have another chapter in my own travel diaries to share. I've heard a lot of messages saying, when are you going to Sani? And I have to say, I was curious too, because Sani in Halkidiki, Greece is one of the legendary names in luxury family travel in Europe. Sani isn't really one hotel, it's more like an entire luxury world spread across a long stretch of white sand beach, pine forests, nature reserve and marina on the coast of Halkidiki. And there are five distinct hotels, Sani Beach, Sani Dune, Sani Club, Porta Sani and Sani Asterias, which is where we stayed. It's the most exclusive and peaceful part of Sani.

3:48All the hotels are beautiful. What made Asira so special for us is that it just had a full transformation with reimagined residences and villas. It feels boutique, private, very calm. It actually used to be the adults only part of the hotel and you can still really feel that more grown up atmosphere. But the genius is that you have all the family infrastructure of Sani there on your doorstep. So we stayed in a newly renovated two-bedroom villa with our own private heated pool overlooking the marina. The interiors were like so my taste, like soft neutrals, pale wood, a place you could properly exhale.

4:26And just outside our villa there was a shallow baby pool overlooking the marina and a gorgeous larger pool next to it. And then the most beautiful beach just moments away. Even though Asterius feels slightly more grown up, there were lots of young children and babies there. and they looked after them so beautifully when you wanted an extra hand. There's a babysitter on hand at breakfast, so you can eat your breakfast in peace or have a coffee in peace while your kids are kind of in the distance playing with other kids with these beautiful children's toys. And then she then relocates to the beach under this lovely little awning with loads of toys so that you can lie on a sun lounger and have a cocktail, see them in the distance, but like actually have a moment to chill out.

5:09And then when you want it beyond sunny Asterius, you have access to the kids club, the creche and babysitting and all the things that make a family holiday actually feel like a holiday. So for older children and multi-generational families, there is just an extraordinary amount to do. I mean, we literally just scratched the surface. The food was another huge highlight for us. Wherever we ate throughout the different properties, we were genuinely blown away. Asiris itself has its flagship water restaurant and bar which entered a new chapter this year with menus curated by a two Michelin star chef.

5:41Seafood led, refined but very relaxed style of dining even so. And across Sani the choice is just incredible. It really does feel like a culinary destination in its own right. If you want all the magic and facilities of Sani but you also want somewhere that feels just marginally quieter and calmer, Asiris is a one-eyed book. There is something about Sunny that feels just incredibly special for families because it gives children freedom and joy, but it gives adults beauty and calm and great food and amazing service and somewhere that feels really elevated. For me, I think we found the holy grail of a warm weather luxury family holiday.

6:16This is a place I can see our family making memories for years to come. So thank you to Sunny for having us. And if you have any questions about my trip, do feel free to send me a message on Instagram and TikTok. I'm at Holly Rubenstein and I posted a lot already about those days saved in my highlights. So have a look. Okay, let's get started with Tom. So I spoke to him last week at the London Marriott County Hall overlooking the beautiful London skyline in the Westminster Suite. I really think you're going to love this one. So let's buckle up, get started. Here's Tom.

6:49Welcome Tom Allen to the Travel Diaries. It is amazing to see you. How are you? I'm great. Thank you. Thank you very much for this. I just love the idea of going on holiday from an armchair Armchair travel, that's what we are all about but hey, didn't you just get back from Hulse? Like IRL? Well, bless you for knowing that actually Yeah, I just got back from we had four nights in Gran Canaria Very nice We watched it at the last minute and I'd always heard about it as a sort of gay resort because there's Oh is it? Well it's got a big kind of gay following Gran Canaria Yeah But I'd never been Anyway, it looked like it was sunny there and we were staying outside of the main town And so it was great.

7:26But I made my boyfriend go in to Maspalomac to go to the Yumbo Center, which is where the famous gay bit. The Yumbo Center. The Yumbo Center. Y-U-M-B-O, I think is how it's spelled. Yeah. And we got there before it got dark. And my partner was slightly horrified that I brought him to this place,

7:50Tom Allen: which is essentially a multi-story car park, kind of chock full of gay bars and drag bars. And I think he was like, what is this? Why do people go on about this? And then we went and had dinner. And then we came back having had a couple of glasses of vino tinto. And suddenly everybody was out and about. And it was the best atmosphere. It was so great. Fiesta. Exactly. Lovely. So we went to the sort of drag bars there, which were just so silly and fun. and we just had a lovely time. It was just a nice interlude. I don't know if we, I think if you stay nearer to it, you might go every night because it's kind of the thing to do.

8:26We stayed a bit out, so we kind of dipped our toes in, enjoyed it, and then went back to resting. Nice. So then were you just recharging for the rest? Yeah, basically. We went all inclusive. Nice. We stayed in a Melia Hotel.

8:37Tom Allen: I don't know if you do brands on this podcast. I have stayed once in a Melia Hotel. Oh, yes. A really nice one, actually, that I recommend called Villa Le Blanc in Menorca. Oh, I'm looking at going to Menorca. Okay. Yeah. It's beautiful. Beautiful pool, rooftop pool, adults only bit. Right. Yeah, recommend. They do that very well. And do you know what was my favorite thing? I don't want to start our chat on something so contentious. But my favorite thing about the hotel was they had signs everywhere that said, no reserver. Don't reserve your sunbeds. You can't reserve your sunbeds. So if you left a towel there for too long, they would clear it up.

9:12Just whip it up. And they said personal belongings will be given to lost property. And I thought it was fabulous. I think that is a policy that should be taken everywhere in the world. We just need to all sign up to it. Because otherwise, who wants to get stressed out and run down before the breakfast buffet's even opened? No. To claim, I know it sounds like something from a 1980s sitcom, but like to claim your subbed. I know. And I just think we should all just relax. And I sort of, I felt, put everybody on the same page as in like, yeah, we're all chilled out about it. There'll be enough beds.

9:40Yeah. There'll be. I mean, that's the ideal situation. Sure. That there's just enough beds. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think as well, some people don't like to stay all day, but they'll reserve a bed all day. and I think just be on the bed when you need to be on the bed and then you have your moment there and then you leave and do something else exactly it's just pure holiday manners yes yes exactly which is something we all need to take heed of just a little bit of consideration of other people oh gosh I'm sounding so old but yeah

10:06Tom Allen: but it didn't get taken like I should point out it wasn't like you go in the sea and you come back and the bed had been cleared and all your things it was you were allowed a bit of grace but and you liked the hotel? loved the hotel yeah we had And most of the rooms face out over the sea. And we slept with the door open. Oh, nice. And you could hear the waves. Nice. And I just love listening to the waves. Yeah, so calming. I just love it. And I don't... It's your own white noise machine. It really is, yes. Just hearing the ocean, Cake by the Ocean. We did have Cake by the Ocean, actually. It was all-inclusive.

10:35Why not? But just loved that sort of serenity that it brings. I just love the sounds of nature. I just find, as I've gotten older, I just find them very soothing. Yeah. I wish we could hear the sound of the River Tens, which we are right next to.

10:53Tom Allen: Lapping its muddy waters. Lapping against these Victorian battlements that we're standing in. Sewage flowing past. Absolutely. So soothing. I just find it's the only way I can relax. Well, we're going to go on a journey today, Tom. Oh, great. Through the seven chapters of your life's travel diaries. Yes. And we start at the very beginning, which is chapter one, your earliest childhood travel memory. Well, I was a child of the 80s. I am a child of the 80s. I was born in 1983. And my most prominent childhood memory was actually in Gran Canaria. No way. Full circle moment. Full circle. We've already completed a full circle moment and we've only just begun.

11:33Cut. Karen Carpenter sang. We've only just begun. but the um i think the most prominent one was we went to grand canaria and i was trying to find it on the recent trip we stayed in an hotel and i always say an hotel in the old school grammar yes it's very proper i literally have never said and before an h um it is kind of slightly cumbersome these days but i will sometimes allow myself an hotel whoever an hotel is and um we i must have been five i think i was five yeah because my brother had just been born and we were he was in a pushchair and you walked along the top there and then to go to the beach you went down a lot of stairs and I remember we went there my dad said probably kind of probably trying to wear me out said you go down this set of steps and we'll go down this set of steps and we'll meet at the bottom that'll be a little adventure for you I started walking down the steps but they were covered with bushes and brambles and we started I started to walk down on my own and I got a bit scared and walked back up and then couldn't obviously my parents by that when we'd gone down their route.

12:39And the bells are tolling in the background for this ominous story. And then I tried to follow them and then there were bushes over the top of their path and I got scared. And so I ran back up and I didn't like to go down their one. I tried to make myself go down my original path. Felt very scared. I had to run back up again. Then just panicked and stayed at the top of the steps in a terrible state. And what seemed like a long time passed. And then I eventually found, And I had a sort of spidey sense as a child that I knew to ask for help, but only to ask, you know, I knew that I should ask a family who seemed like they were kind.

13:16Not murderers. And not murderers. Yeah. I was very good on that. Yeah. And that would potentially look after me. Yeah. And I remembered the name of the hotel because I was very good at remembering the names of the hotel. I can't remember it now, though. And I said, excuse me. And I feel like they might have been Greek or Danish. I can't remember which. but they I said excuse me I've lost my parents but I know I'm staying at whatever this hotel was and they kindly walked me back to the hotel meanwhile my parents have gotten to the bottom of the steps because it needed two people to help to lift the pushchair down the steps they'd gotten to the bottom and I hadn't appeared out of my side of the steps and they'd gone and my dad had obviously run back up to look for me couldn't find me had gone down the other ones to look for me couldn't find me my mum then starts having this huge panic starts screaming and the waiters there are going it's fine don't worry don't worry with we we

14:08Tom Allen: everybody here loves children we'd always look after a child i meanwhile had swanned off with this random family and sort of like like ginger rogers in a film was sat coquettishly at a bar um with a coca-cola at this point uh from a glass bottle with a straw and um and we're just waiting for them but obviously they were having the most enormous number in the last place they went to look was to approach the hotel because they thought why would our five-year-old be back at the hotel why would the hotel know anything anyway i think a local cafe had to phone the hotel who said yes he's fine he's here at the bar oh my god what a drama sorry that wasn't the sort of restful start that's amazing i'm on the edge of my seat it's gripping everybody imagine if the ending had been and then i was just brought up by this danish family i never saw my parents again and that's yeah that's how I began.

15:01Tom Allen: Were you were they were you really thoroughly told off? No. You weren't? No they were just relieved to have. They were relieved. It had been a sort of disaster holiday I think because it had rained a lot. Always so gutting isn't it? So gutting. Make that schlep over there. And Grand Canary doesn't usually have that much rain. No. So it was kind of like the people in the hotel were really sad for us. It's one of those holidays where they'll be like oh my gosh we have 300 days of sunshine a year this is so unfortunate. This is This is so rare. And what you meant to say, like, oh, great. Oh, good.

15:32Yeah, well, good for you. I hope you enjoy them. Yeah. And they'd given us, I think because it had rained so much, and the sort of alfresco breakfast buffet arrangement had fallen in from the,

15:45Tom Allen: there's like a sort of straw roof or something there to make it kind of holiday and fun. But it had fallen in from all the rain. So they offered us dinner in the formal restaurant they had in the hotel. And my mum was very proud because we sat in the formal restaurant and a lady came over and said, your children are very well behaved. The ultimate compliment. The ultimate compliment, of course, and something that I've always striven for. So what kind of holiday family were the Allens, would you say? Well, fans of a package holiday. Fans of a package holiday, yeah. Very, my parents, my mum in particular, would have the suitcases, which were those flat suitcases that people used to have, would be open in their bedroom for months.

16:25What do you mean by flat suitcases? Sorry, you know now everyone has the boxy ones on four wheels. Yeah. This was before wheels were put on suitcases. Right. If that makes sense, I know to your younger listeners, they won't know what I'm talking about. I can think of like, almost like duffel bags, like that look like kind of more like bowling bag shape, like long ones, but. No, they were just your classic suitcase, I suppose,

16:46Tom Allen: is what I'm describing. Not Carrie's War style suit. You know, not those ones. I would have loved that sort of Paddington Bear. And like a big trunk. Not a big trunk, which again, And I would have absolutely loved, like Joan Collins getting on board Concorde, even at the age of five, I would have loved that. Instead, they were just your classic suitcases, which had a handle and were kind of usually made of a canvas material. I think ours were a kind of a green, a khaki green with a stripe, a nylon stripe down the middle. They had a handle and underneath the handle was a sort of buckle that went over.

17:20It was a double fastening on the seat, on the suitcase. and we'd have two of those and a small one my dad would have to get when we parked at the airport dad would have to go and get a trolley because suitcases hadn't realized that they could make

17:35Tom Allen: friends with wheels you have to get a trolley stack them on the trolley yeah and then my dad would have his camera bag which was kind of camp actually red leather handbag actually it's a camera bag which had the passports in and he would take his camera with us with him as well for the holiday. So, but my parents would have been packing the bags for maybe what seemed like weeks beforehand. Big build up. The lid of them would be propped up against the radiator in their room for weeks. Don't touch that. Don't touch. Very organized. Very neat. Very neat. Yeah. Very organized. And, you know, it was kind of a nice era of travel, I think, when tourism was really sort of taking hold.

18:18uh it that sounds terrible actually doesn't it but um but we were grateful to go on a holiday it was mainly to somewhere in spain right um particularly javier um in near alicante um was a place we went to lots of times we felt very we were very aware of being visitors in spain so

18:39Tom Allen: we weren't obnoxious brits abroad we were very i like to think we would say gracias por favor and have a phrasebook on the table and enjoy the menu del dia, which seemed to be about 100 pesetas, which I think was about 10 pounds. Menu del dia. Menu del dia. Menu of the day. Which always ended in a creme caramel. Or flan. Flan. Flan. Flan, which is not a creme caramel. Well, it is a creme caramel, basically. It's a wobbly dessert. A wobbly custard dessert, which I loved. And bread with aioli in Javier, which was a very chic place to go, I have to tell you. What did it look like? Oh, it was wonderful.

19:19The Parador Hotel sat on the peninsula by the sandy beach. They created a man-made sandy beach on one side and a pebble beach on the other. And we would stay in a selection of flats that were called Pueblo Blanco. Because my dad's friend's dad had been a builder and he built these flats and they kept one of them. Oh, nice. Good contact to have.

19:43Tom Allen: Great contact to have. and if you've been on a Spanish holiday, the tiles, the number of the building was on a tile that had blue and yellow paint on it, very Spanish. And you could buy ashtrays that were similarly painted. And they were those doors, those panel doors, you don't see them as much in Spain, which have like lots of rectangular panels on them. If anybody's been to Spain, they might remember those. These rectangular panels. Rectangular panels. I love the details though. It's what, like, being able to visualize it, like, something from such a long time ago. And the shiny pavements on the promenade to the back of the beach where Spanish, dignified Spanish couples would go for their evening promenade.

20:26So nice. So all those details, though, I think, as a kid, because it's such a break in your usual routine. And it's hopefully time you spend with your parents, which is outside of their normal routine. That quality time is so formative. I think it's such an important thing. Well, outside of suburbia. Yes. Which leads us beautifully to your new book. Oh, bless you for saying. Which is set in suburbia. Can you tell us all about it? With pleasure. Yes, I've been inspired by suburbia.

20:55Tom Allen: I think for a time I sort of grew to be so embarrassed by how sad it is living in Bromley. Oh, it's so boring. I want to live in London, you know, the cool people, cool clubs. and I've come to realise that that was not ever going to be me and that actually I like the mundaneness, mundanity of suburbia because I think it's a place where most people live at some point in their life and people tend to go there to live a quieter life. They like the idea of maybe it's somewhere where they bring up a family and I was lucky enough to be brought up in a really nice community of people and it was a really, I reflect on it, it was a really diverse community of people, people from all over the world, people from all different backgrounds, but who wanted to live a happy life and were neighbours to one another and looked out for one another and they would have neighbourhood parties and things like that.

21:49A community. A community. Yeah. And I was inspired to write about that in my novel because I think I saw, I see so much, you know, we're so told that we're so polarised, we're so discordant, everybody's angry with each other and you see it so much on screens and online and things and everybody's sort of looking over their shoulder and feeling like they're not enough. Whereas suburbia, with its boringness, actually, I realised, is a place where people get along and they are enough

22:13Tom Allen: and they are respected and regarded and they might wind each other up sometimes, but fundamentally they get along together because they want to live in harmony. And so I wanted to write about how that is the case. And with people who've read it so far, they say they really connect with that. And they might have grown up in different sorts of communities like it, but I like to think it's a celebration of that. Yeah, 100%. And what would you, if you were summing it up in, you know, like a sales spiel, what would you say? I would say it's about four houses in suburbia with four very different families in each that face onto a park.

22:51And they realize that. And a big tree. And a big tree, a big oak tree. Yeah. And they realize that their love for this tree and this bit of nature brings them together and makes them realize they're more connected than they ever realized. There are secrets that they never realized would be told. Dot, dot, dot. Dot, dot, dot. I wanted to write about how drama is often in the most quiet places. It's not about murder. There's no murders.

23:17Tom Allen: A lot of people write about murders and murder mysteries. I do think, like, if a murder happens in a place, it's a huge thing to happen, a terrible thing to happen. Totally, yeah. But it's sort of written about in books. They're like, yes, and then someone got murdered, and then everybody went to the party afterwards. If you discovered a dead body, every day for the rest of your life, you would think about that dead body. You would think about... You're so right. I find the same, actually, with true crime podcasts. I'm like, personally, that's not what I want to listen to before going to bed. But people find them very soothing, don't they, strangely.

23:46Tom Allen: I guess it's sort of about understanding the terror that's out there. but um but but yes so i i yeah i wanted to write about uh about people's lives and how they're in their mundane perhaps mundane exchanges that that actually a lot of drama is revealed and did you always have a book in you because to write a novel is a huge thing i mean you'd written your two memoirs and and so was yeah was this something on your like professional bucket list Well, I've always enjoyed observing people and observing the quirks and the peculiarities of life. And so I found that a novel was something that I found very freeing.

24:25It was the most difficult thing I've ever done, writing it. Really? It was very intense because you love the people and you love the characters you've created and you feel protective of them.

24:36Tom Allen: But I felt very much creatively so free because you can go on whatever journey you like and you create somebody and you can. I've written about an old lady called Miranda who's in her 80s and I wanted to represent how older people are much more exciting than they're ever given credit for and so I do have in in it moments where she encounters a drug dealer and um moments where she sort of reveals her past which is much more glamorous and exciting than at first it seems um and so I I liked that idea of being able to give like give give life to the people i'd met growing up in a way that they maybe didn't have you know i was inspired by people like you were inspired by people in your and and have you told them like there's a bit of you in miranda there's a bit of you i'd have to tell them through a seance um but i i i hope i've done them justice since they've left us you know i found them more and more interesting as i as i learned more about them and i i wanted to i suppose i wanted the novel to be about that kind of idea that people could be wildly more exciting than they ever give they're ever given credit for today's episode is brought to you in partnership with airbnb when i look back on some of my favorite trips it's often the places i stayed that i remember most vividly not necessarily because they were grand or luxurious but because they felt personal a little flat in lisbon with shelves full of novels and records a family home in the countryside where the host left a handwritten recommendation for local walks and bakeries.

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26:48Hi, this is Brooke DeVard from Naked Beauty. I am always looking for ways to elevate our daily rituals and the Kohler Smart Toilet is proof that design changes everything. It's this stunning sculptural piece that feels like quiet luxury for your bathroom. It totally transforms your daily ritual into something elevated with customizable cleansing and touchscreen controls. It's functional art that makes your space feel cleaner and more intentional. A modern home deserves a modern toilet. Experience the difference of Kohler smart toilets. Find more at Kohler.com.

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27:58And a couple of my listeners wanted to ask, are you going to be voicing or have you already voiced an audio?

28:04Tom Allen: Yes, I have done it. I've recorded it, which is a nice experience. You're very, it feels like you're very privileged to be in people's ears when they go to bed or they take you with them into all manner of situations. And so, yeah, I like storytelling. I've always enjoyed storytellers. Someone who's a good storyteller, I think it's a great, great thing to be able to kind of create a world and a moment and stuff. I've always loved that. And that was the thing in my family, sort of associated family, as it were, people we knew, family, friends, would be great storytellers and would have great richness to the details.

28:39Tom Allen: And I just still, even now, I love that. So I thought it was important for me to read the novel. It's quite an odd experience, though, because you sit in a booth with a radio producer or audio producer and you don't really see them because they have all their screens in front of them. and uh and you don't really hear from them you sort of go into your own little world it's only when you trip up over a word and they go you go back on that plane so you get lost in it yeah lost in it yeah yeah quite meditative yeah it'll be fun yeah very soothing yeah i look forward to both reading and oh well thank you for that yeah well let's pause there and we'll move on to chapter two of your travel diaries tom and that's the first place that you fell in love with where captured your heart first would you say i would say it is it was when i was 22 and i'd never been somebody to go on holiday with my mates like i never was like um the in-betweeners going to yeah magaloupe or something yeah i always knew that wasn't for me because i was quite a precocious young person was no i don't think i'd like to go anywhere loud like that thank you you know i went to a very normal comprehensive school uh where people are come on yeah we're gonna go zante we're going to what's that what's that one in in roads um ayanappa like places like that i didn't want to go it looked a bit too loud for me i was a bit the same there are a lot of us out there i think but we just didn't know each other because we were quiet exactly yeah the idea of going to like one of those places like the lads are out in san san antonio you know all these documentaries that used to exist i think i just already knew that that wasn't my vibe yes yeah like oh my goodness yeah yeah anyway yeah but when i started in stand up i saved up enough money um because i'd always wanted to go to san francisco and lots of reasons i'd always wanted to go to um have i i love the idea of breakfast in america not just the super breakfast and my friend charlie was traveling she's a very intrepid traveler and she was going to be in america at that time and we both read uh the series of books called tales of the city by armistead mupin which is i don't know if you ever heard of i i haven't read them i really recommend them they are set they were written in the 1970s about a group of young people it's kind of a very queer story in a lot of ways but it's about just a group of young people who escape their backgrounds and kind of come to San Francisco to live a kind of freer life.

31:12Tom Allen: And it's so uplifting and positive. And it was written for the San Francisco Chronicle, I think. So it was written a bit like Dickens did with the Pickwick Papers. It was written as a serialized story. So all the chapters are short and are always like page turners. And page turner, whoever she is. And then we, so I wanted to go to San Francisco and I found it so thrilling. I traveled there on my own and got off the plane. And I remember I had really struggled to come out and I found it very vulnerable. And I've been very frightened of coming out as a teenager when I was at school. And reading the books represented a story of positivity and going to the place where they were set felt extra special.

31:59I remember getting on the BART, the Bay Area Regional Transportation, from the airport and being like what is this where am i had my red suitcase that my mom actually had won in a raffle at the golf club um and um i had the red suitcase i got on the bart and this guy sat opposite me who was a lot not a lot well quite a lot older than me and um it was the first time

32:24Tom Allen: he sort of raised an eyebrow at me and sort of flirted with his eyes and that had never happened to me before and I was so like felt so kind of alive like I was like I'm a I'm a somebody I can exist um and um it's like he's a grown-up and he's making probably didn't care probably was looking out the window um but somebody else had something in his eye maybe had something in his eye very brief encounter my favorite film um but it was um that was that was a place that we went at my friend Charlie and I we went to a bar in the Castro and we met people and they invited us around for dinner. And it just felt like I belonged somewhere.

33:02Tom Allen: And I know that sounds very portentous, but I just felt like, oh, this place. And we went to a place called Dottie's for breakfast or brunch, I think it was. And we had, yeah, pancakes with bacon on it, all that kind of. Was that the American breakfast you had in your bed? Yeah, yeah. A big stack of pancakes. Yeah, with savory things and maple syrup. Maple syrup and bacon on the top. And then a fruit cup, you know, like a little... Yeah, a little fruit cup. A little fruit cup. The thing that's also so weird about American stacks of pancakes is that not only do they put... Not only are they unbelievably high when you think about it, because if I have a pancake at home, I'll have like two pancakes.

33:37Tom Allen: Yeah, two. Yeah, exactly. Maybe, yeah, two max. They put the syrup on. They also put butter. Yes. They're like big chunks of butter on the top as well to melt. God, no wonder. Lovely. And then they call them home fries. Those cubes of fried potato. oh it's so delicious it is very herby herby they love a herby herby herby they would say herby yeah and herby taste um and herby uh whoever she is and then and so yeah it was um it was one of those times and now i remember everything about it how we loved the sound of like ambulances and fire trucks in america have a certain siren which is honk honk whoo and we just kept honk honk doing impressions of it silly things that you do when you're young and you think you're very funny um and i remember and i went into french connection and bought some trendy jeans they were quite skinny jeans which let me tell you in 2006 was was quite uh new and just one of those moments when i just felt so alive that's so lovely what a wonderful memory to reflect on it was but we stayed in a in a youth hostel all the youth hospitals were in a place called the tenderloin which we're like be careful in the tenderloin it's very you know it's an area where you know it's not very salubrious but actually i didn't i didn't feel anything other than excited everybody so many innuendos for the tenderloin i mean i mean for sure and we stayed in a youth hostel and in a shared room and on the first day we slept that first night and then on the first morning um we woke up and the a man opposite in the opposite bunk to us we didn't couldn't see anything except for his bare bum his his bum was sticking out he'd obviously slept with no clothes on look look look oh yeah my phone was like look look somebody's naked in the bed and you were like oh how exciting this is just like it would be in a book or something um and um he he obviously worked out a lot because his his his glutes were more toned than his face maybe that's very unkind But he looked younger.

35:47Younger in the butt.

35:48Tom Allen: Yeah, real young butt. Real young butt. You know, I'm sure it was very nice. I love how that's a memory that's still stuck in your head. Yes, yeah. Sorry, you were about to move on to another thing. I was like, I must tell you about this butt I saw in San Francisco. Things that stay in the mind. That beautifully segues on to chapter three, which is the place where you learn the most about yourself. Well, well, I mean, I did do quite a lot of solo traveling. Did you? Yeah, I sort of thought, oh, I don't know who I can ask. And if I ask someone, then I'll have to do what they want to do. And I might not want to do that.

36:22Yeah. I think the place I learned the most was going on a trip to America when I was not San Francisco, but when I was 18 and I was desperate to go to America. I was convinced if I went to New York, I would find my people and I'd work everything out. But my parents were too scared to let me go to New York on my own. So I went to stay in with an aunt, my dad's aunt, in a place called Cherry Hills, which is just outside Philadelphia on the New Jersey side of Philadelphia. So that was my first experience of America was going to Philadelphia airport. What was your impression of that?

36:56Tom Allen: Like nice, like everything does look bigger and you do have that kind of like, wow, we're in America. But you're in a kind of, it was a suburban America. So it was kind of not a million miles where I'd grown up. From suburban, yeah, yeah. Then I got the Greyhound bus because I couldn't afford to fly there. And I didn't know about, oh, I couldn't afford to get the train. everyone's like get the bus you just get the bus get the greyhound it's iconic isn't it so iconic and i thought we'll go over the bridge i'll see the city of new york manhattan it'll be great uh of course you don't go that way because they go to the 41st street is it the term the what do they call it port authority port authority yeah um bus station you go under a tunnel um and before you get in the tunnel it was raining so you didn't see any i didn't see any skyscrapers at all so just came out of a tunnel and suddenly the lincoln tunnel the lincoln tunnel i think it must be and got off at 41st Street Port Authority.

37:45Tom Allen: And they play classical music to try and calm everyone down. But it was so stressful. And then I checked into a hotel called the Gershwin Hotel, which was actually very chic. Very chic. It had a sort of 1920s, 1930s. It was all very red and then black and white. Oh, jazzy. Jazzy. But I was staying on my own because I was like, I don't want to, I don't want to, I want to be my own person. I'm going to find myself here. But I mean, I was just very lonely. I didn't meet anybody. the Gershwin Hotel was kind of a youth hostel you could do shared rooms I was like no I want to be your man and I was so scared and I just was walking around Manhattan all on my own not feeling anything other than like well I've gone to see this thing I've seen the Empire State Building what do you do with that?

38:24Tom Allen: you take a picture that's it and I was like but then it was around about the time I was sort of I was like I think I've got to come out I think I've got to tell people I'm gay I was trying to bury it and I took myself to a gay bar for the first time and I was so scared and I walked and of course like they didn't ask for ID at that point because they're normally quite strict and you have to be over 21 so I managed to they obviously were being lax I can't remember where it was but I remember walking in and I walked straight into a chair into a bar stall and felt so self-conscious and just sat at the bar on my own and had a drink and then left I was like what am I doing but it taught I suppose it taught me a lot about myself it was very brave to go on your own at 18 to the east coast and like not really have a plan and i suppose so i think it is it taught me that in those days when you didn't have a mobile that you could just like have all you know yeah yeah i couldn't sorry i don't mean to talk about it as though it's like a million years ago i just sent a telegram home i would have liked that um yeah you're right though there wasn't that sense of like oh i'm just doing a video diary for myself so this is but what it taught me was that i needed a purpose in everything I do.

39:36Right. Because to have to be rudderless like that and just to turn up and be like, oh, I'll find something. It taught me that I needed a purpose. I'd like to say it taught me to be kinder to myself, but actually it didn't. It was the time I spent the most, time I spent with my own thoughts.

39:51Tom Allen: And I realized how spiteful they can be. I think spending time on your own, you can kind of spiral quite quickly into a very negative place. And I was very angry with myself for not being able to work out what I was doing or not being like other people or not being confident like other people I assumed would be yeah and that sort of barrage like that so I I learned I suppose that I had to um I had to have a purpose when I went to somewhere I had to have a friend when I went to somewhere and if I was feeling lonely it was okay to acknowledge that I think at that time I was like too ashamed to go I haven't got any friends will you be my friend whereas actually that's the most that's the most confident thing you can do totally yeah it's so but interesting then that you found your people on the west coast yes it's you know i suppose that was true and and that felt like when i'd been to new york and that east coast adventure it didn't put you off it didn't put me off i was determined there was something out there yeah but at that point i felt very negative about myself and i suppose this trip to san francisco represented something where i was feeling a bit a lot more kind of positive about life and like open you know there's times in your life i think holidays do it and free but it feels like the the rafters or like like a loft like a like a bird loft would have like slats that you'd open do you know what i mean yeah and then suddenly you feel like open everything you're just looking at the sky and everything's amazing yeah but there are other times when it's shut and you're like no it's like blue sky thinking isn't it where they say like there's beyond the clouds there's always blue sky oh that's is that where that comes from i think so yeah so that like your negative thoughts can be the clouds that are passing by but above it there's always blue sky oh how nice yeah it's quite a nice analogy isn't it whenever the clouds part and I see that blue sky I'm always like oh it's one of them it's going to stay like this forever but of course it's like a sunny day isn't it you think it'll James Taylor sang I've seen sunny days I thought would never end and I listened to James Taylor actually on the way back from Philadelphia no way isn't that funny that is funny I love an airplane trip for listening to albums and nowadays podcasts of course podcasts are available but listening to something audio from beginning to end yeah you have that time don't you it's so much less stimulation i love air travel for that do you like flying absolutely adore it don't like the airport love the are you scared of flying i'm not scared of it but i definitely don't enjoy it i actually kind of have a weird kind of motion sickness whereby when the plane banks like when it does that kind of thing i i get this like plummeting feeling oh bless you so i spend the whole time staring out the window which is slightly tedious i bet you're a nightmare i'm quite tricky as a travel journalist yes i bet it's a bit of an occupational hazard i have to say everyone's like why do you still do this and i'm like because you get amazing opportunities and you get to see the world you've just got to grin and bear it i say it's like childbirth once you've done it you do it again you forget and do again i was thinking it's a bit like i have a fear of being judged by other people and yet i do for a job yeah you're on the stage yeah exactly it's the exact same thing all the same glovers for punishment yeah i mean speaking of which then so getting into you know your background and into how you have this big break in comedy I mean like you said I read that you were quite a self-conscious teenager and you know so it is amazing then that you're you then found yourself on the stage and at a young age winning all these awards in Edinburgh well yes I think I I was I got some success early on because I was a bit quirky um and then when I tried to take that out into the sort of mainstream of clubs people were not into me talking about my mum's hostess trolley at length comedy clubs really demand that you snatch attention and hold the audience and have something funny to say and another funny thing to say and keep moving keep moving um but i learned that the hard way it took me about 13 years then starting out and winning a couple of awards which was great but also made meant that it made it harder because people like we've won all these awards you're supposed to be good yeah i guess it's like that huge it's like winning a gold medal on your first olympic yes yes very similar very similar um and and so it took me about 12 or 13 years of doing gigs and just feeling like i was just sort of the the machinery just kept jamming like the blue sky disappeared the and the the rafters had shut really at that point i just was trying to be protective of myself and and trying to learn about myself and feeling quite vulnerable and scared really going to those comedy clubs for those 12 years and just praying every time I went in like maybe this time they'll like me um and sometimes they would and sometimes they wouldn't um but doing that for a long time yeah it was very um so what would you have what do you consider was like your big break I don't think I had one really um I think I'm somebody who be I have to convince people like oh please give me a job and so i think i've it's when i've done things for a long time so i would say um uh going on cats does countdown introduced me to some people but then doing um a bake off an extra slice was another thing speaking of which are you are you doing next year this year this year well you'll have to ask channel four about that so i wouldn't i don't i wanted to ask you about nigella oh i mean you i don't have any knowledge of her or experience of her yes well i mean she's the new judge.

45:05She's a new judge.

45:06Tom Allen: I'm sure she'll be brilliant. Are you excited? Yes, she'll be fantastic and funny and that innuendo that she does. I think it's an amazing cast. Yes, yes, yeah, perfect. And I think she'll stand up to Paul in a funny way. Yeah, I'm quite excited to see how that all pans out. Paul and Prue have both been on the podcast. Oh, yes. Fantastic. Prue is a very intrepid traveller. Yes, she is. She's got that from like Kyrgyzstan. Yes, she's somebody who I think is such a great role model because, well, she doesn't fit the stereotype of somebody of her age, frankly. You know, I mean, and it might sound patronising, she might tell me off for that.

45:46Tom Allen: But she really doesn't let anything stop her and I think we should all be more like Prue. Well, let's pause it and move on to chapter four, which is the big one, Tom, your all-time favourite destination. i will say um the favorite place i went to uh was japan oh do a lot of people say that i'm trying to think yes they do well actually more top of bucket list i would say actually because it's far well i'm gonna say this now i went in 2012 and i went before everybody else went absolutely i mean bold claim for me yeah before you were a tastemaker i like to think of myself as uh yeah thank geist yeah um i and where did you go i went flew into tokyo got the japan rail pass and went on the shinkansen to uh kyoto no sorry kyoto yes first asaka hiroshima uh nara and then back to tokyo amazing um and i went on my own wow and it's such an alien experience isn't it going into well i felt very self-conscious there um and in 2012 i went during the london olympics because everyone had moaned if you can remember early 2012 everyone was moaning so much about the london olympics oh it's going to be terrible oh they said not to go into london if you don't need to oh don't you can't use the tube apparently oh it's costing so much money yeah so i was like well i want to get out then if everyone's going to be so miserable about it yeah um and so went to japan went to tokyo watched the opening ceremony was absolutely blown away and all i heard about was how everybody absolutely loved it the public is very changeable like that aren't they yes they absolutely are changed on a on a nine pence is that a six pence sure inflation um but but i um i was in japan while the rest of the world was in london and it was an unusual time to go i went in august because it was cheaper to go there and i'd always heard it was expensive i'd heard a few people talk about it and i went there and um i'd enjoyed david sadaris writing about it um I think it was his book now you are engulfed in flames um and I went there and and so I went on my own and got off the plane it was more hot than I had ever been so because it's humid yeah in the middle of August and had to try and find my way to this youth hostel I was staying in which I changed at the last minute because it suggested this place had single rooms which I could go to did not have single rooms i'd misunderstood it had a bed in basically a cupboard that was a single cupboard up on a one of the like capsule well it wasn't quite a capsule because it had a side opening so it's a bit like a sort of sideboard so it's like sleeping in a sideboard and i think i was getting a little bit ill from the jet lag and the heat and the blasts of of cold um and it was quite overwhelming taking shoes off of course is a big thing and there was something tremendous about it.

48:44Tom Allen: But I, again, had foolishly gone on my own to the most, I think I was just desperate to be on my own. I don't know why I was so keen because when I was on my own, I was so miserable. Also interesting because from my kind of reading about that I did before the episode today, like you're quite, I don't want to make it so much, but like quite close to your family and like some kind of, you're very, not codependent is the right thing. No, I am. Oh, are you? That's complete. Yeah, as in with the people that are close to you. So it's interesting that you took these kind of bold adventures that were quite against what made you feel comfortable.

49:20I think it might have been my soul railing against the codependency and trying to be on my own and to prove to myself I was enough on my own. Which is very brave, I have to say. I really think that's very admirable.

49:34Tom Allen: Well, thank you for saying that. I think I was very naive again. I just kept punishing myself. but I think codependency I think is the right thing to bring up really because I think I realized I had a tendency I have a tendency to base my esteem on opinions of other people and I think these solo trips were me trying to go I will stand on my own two feet I don't need anybody else um and it backfired because I realized I really did because all that happened was these negative thoughts would come in and I'd write a diary but the diary would just be me kind of like you stupid idiot why did you come here on your own and it's very punishing um so but I did find that um i had lots of fun moments in japan um and i did meet people and i met i remember meeting a canadian family when we went to the fish market in tokyo and i remember meeting a guy just randomly actually in uh asaka and we went he made me go cycling with him which i was not in the mood for because it was too hot we ended up cycling to the top to go to this castle there but but what i found with it all was it was inspiring because it was so phenomenally different to anywhere i'd been to before every design every way of being obviously the language and also the way the language was written um was so incredibly different so everything it took that extra bit of time and at times i would be quite frustrated that it would take me like half an hour to get out of a of a subway station but at the same time there were these flashes of extreme loveliness where somebody would get would say are you lost can i help you which i don't think would happen in london very often yeah but in tokyo people would say can i help you seem lost or you seem confused and i think they and they would be so very hospitable so hospitable yeah and so wonderful um and were you to go back there now where in japan would you want to return to well i would love to go to Kyoto I mean I went to Kyoto on my own and I met somebody in the youth hostel there and we went for a walk we were looking for this theater um we couldn't find this theater that we'd seen in the guidebook you didn't have the guidebook then you didn't have google maps you didn't have things to look up online you couldn't find this theater kept walking around we saw this building that was really lit up and we walked into it walking around it's very beautiful traditional Japanese building and then this lady came out and she said what are you doing this is my house and we were wearing our shoes it was awful um but we had a lovely time but um but i had a lovely time in kyoto it's so stunning there is it very serene yes to an extent but also very buzzy and busy the temples part i guess is serene but i always think that kyoto is it shocks me that it's also actually a massive city it's huge yeah absolutely and um and it has the old bits I felt guilty that I started to get tired of looking at temples is that okay to say yeah but it is like coming to England and going around to every village church yeah every church yeah which you know are often very beautiful when you're touring do you go and see the local churches not that often no um so I think it was surprising that I was expecting to get this sort of spiritual experience from going to them in Japan.

52:37But I did find it extraordinary. And I really missed it when I left. And I think it affected me in more ways than I had realized at the time. And I thought it was, yeah, I thought it was really so profound. And the way that, again, I suppose there is a culture of being aware of other people and being mindful of other people, which is pronounced on signs and things of like no loud music. And I saw a sign that said, please don't come in across a part of a temple.

53:13Tom Allen: But I thought it was kind of wonderful the way that the Japanese people had obviously found a way to be open about what they expected from people. And I thought that was very good, very courteous. Yeah, but I thought everything about it was so diligent about the way that you would wipe down your seat on the train after you'd sat there. And the trains were just so immaculate. And people were so kind and so respectful. And the bowing feels so respectful. Do you think you would, would you like the English culture to be more Japanese? I suppose in many ways, yeah. Do you feel like you could assimilate quite well to that?

53:51Oh, well, I don't know. I would like to think so. But I, yeah, I mean, I would like to spend a proper amount of time there. I know some people who have lived there and loved it. And my partner actually lived there. No way. Because he worked at Tokyo Disney. And he still talks about it. At Tokyo Disney? Yeah. Oh, that's cool. Yeah, he loved it. What does he do? He worked in the parks there. So he loved it. And he always talks so fondly about it. So really, we should plan a trip to go back and revisit it,

54:17Tom Allen: as he saw it and as I saw it. And I would like to see more of it. You can skip the keys. Well, no, you can't. It's very strict. Of course, probably not in Japan. He tells me it's very strict. Yes, particularly in Japan. But to go to some of the Studio Ghibli places, or Ghibli, Studio Ghibli, sorry. Would be really fun. Would be really extraordinary. And a different side to Japan. Yeah, and to see it with somebody else would be a good thing, I think, somebody to talk about it with. Absolutely. Yeah, so that would be something to go back, somewhere to go back. Think of a toilet as just an everyday object.

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55:58so chapter five tom is your hidden gem so that is a place that you love that maybe my listeners wouldn't know so much about well i would obviously not want to tell you but um i think that uh yes i was thinking of a few options on this um it goes back to spain actually the city of ala county Great city to go to. You can obviously fly straight there. It's kind of 20 minutes, 15 minutes from the airport. Yeah. You're in the middle of the city. Yeah. You've got fabulous restaurants there. My mum and I used to go on a summer trip there every year. Really? We'd go to the, again, I'm not employed by Melia, but it was a Melia hotel.

56:38It was up on the peninsula. And so you have a direct view of the sea. I liked that. I haven't been to Alicante. Oh. So can you help me visualize it? Yes, it's a port city. with a port on one side and a sandy beach on the other. And then there's a bit of a peninsula, a bigger peninsula. And on the other side is San Juan, which is more beaches, which has, I think, a lot of Spanish tourists there. Is it historic? A little bit of history there, some castles, some walls. Castles, yeah. That sort of thing. Yeah. But essentially, it's a nice, just a nice kind of mix of a bit of buzz and relaxation. And manageable.

57:15And very manageable, easy to get to. Yeah, yeah. And so I like going there to some lovely restaurants they had open there. And like there was a real sort of cool scene. I was really impressed by it. What were you weighing it up against as your other one? I would say I was very lucky. I got to do some touring in the Highlands and Islands. And I remember going to Elgin and Bankery, which are really kind of small towns in the north of Scotland. um northeast north north of scotland i think that's what i say i'm thinking of johnston's of elgin which is a clothing brand yes i have heard of that yeah it's like a jump a jumper from the highlands oh a jumper from the highlands um all around there i thought was so lovely and when i was touring there was in the middle of summer and it was so warm and all the the locks just looked like just so appealing so many jellyfish really off a bit going in in the water but i still enjoyed being there it was just tremendous in this sort of um the the the adventure of um finding eateries little shacks that sold seafood or um out of this beautiful clear water bakeries restaurants everything about it i just thought was so stunning um i know people do know about

58:38Tom Allen: going to scotland i know a lot of people go as very successful as a tourist destination but um going off the beaten track going right up the top right up the top was really extraordinary yeah and then the other end of the spectrum is i mean going on tour i like it when i go to places that aren't touristic as it were so like places like wakefield um wakefield i mean it's strange to say perhaps because people would never think of it but had just a lovely sense about it i just really loved it um it's got a cathedral it's a city um and i remember i ended up doing some filming there because i liked it so much but they have like a local they have a couple of local pie shops and um they have yeah lovely restaurants and cafes and when i was there there was a place opposite the town hall where they were there was um a community of people doing screen printing and artwork and there was there was some refugees who had moved there and they had been artists and creatives in their homeland and they they brought that to wakefield and they were creating things and i just thought it was so inspiring and because barbara hepworth had been from wakefield and there's the sculpture park and museum and yeah yeah um and and so that's stuff i just thought was just exquisite creative yeah and i thought you know you wouldn't necessarily think to go to wakefield so uh there you go there's another that is a very good you can choose is it okay to have two it's a bit lazy isn't it please the more the better yeah well our very penultimate chapter is chapter six and that is either your worst travel experience or the place that you would never go back to well well last year well my partner and i love to watch benedorm the TV program yeah and it's so silly and then we thought we'll go there and you've heard it about yeah we thought we'll go there it'd be fun it looks so fun we'll go there yeah we couldn't find a hotel that wouldn't that would you had to book five nights in a hotel if you went there and we were like we don't want to go for five nights but we were staying in the local area so we thought we'll go there for a day and see how we like it maybe we'll stay there or maybe we won't yeah and we went and I just maybe went to the wrong places because people have been there and they like it and they say the old town is great.

1:00:57Tom Allen: You should go to the old town. That's lovely there. I think we just headed for like the most touristy places. And I was like, why? Why is this like this? And I'm a snob. I know I'm a snob. Okay, fine. Hate me. And who am I to tell other people how to live their holiday? But I was just like, why? Why is there a sports bar playing PGA golf whilst blasting out rock music whilst serving like ham egg and chips to people who can't hear each other, who are not looking out on anything nice. They're looking out on a road right onto the bins while people go past in quad bikes in like 35, 40 degree heat.

1:01:36Yeah, you're not selling it. No.

1:01:38Tom Allen: And I just felt like, but why? That's so snobby of me because who am I to say why? Like people can do whatever they want on their holiday. But you're entitled to have not enjoyed it. You know, and I love a rotisserie chicken. and the way they do a rotisserie chicken in spain there's something about it rob beckett says he goes to a place in calaya lou lou becker his wife goes to a place in calaya you must go there for the rotisserie chickens she said and i thought one day i'll go there anyway the second best place in spain it turned out we found after we left is a place in the old town of benedorm ah right by where we parked as well that does the best rotisserie chicken oh my god so it might end up being the answer to your next question which is the destinations at the top of your travel bucket list is it to go back to Benidon for the chicken maybe it's to go back to Benidon for the rotisserie chicken do you know what have you ever had chicken in Spain I mean I must have done um but I don't think that I've had it as a something that's like etched in my memory no I remember it's what juicy and herby yeah juicy and herby yeah we'd get them we'd go to the port in Javier, I'm going back to Javier again, and there were rotisserie chicken shops there.

1:02:51And we'd go and get rotisserie chicken and sit in the courtyard garden of the flat and have that. Because we didn't go for the menu del Dier every, we couldn't afford the menu del Dier every day. But a rotisserie chicken, oh, and I just remember loving it, the herbiness of it. Oh, so good. So is that your bucket list destination, Tom, your final chapter? Or is there somewhere else in the world that you're also dying to visit? Well, of course, I'd like to go somewhere that is different and exciting and interesting. Like I've always wanted to go to China. I'd like to see The Forbidden City because I love that film, The Last Emperor.

1:03:25Oh, yeah. Oh, a lot of history in that film. Very interesting. About The Last Emperor and how he lived on his own in The Forbidden City. And all the monks who served on him weren't allowed to look at him. And if he came walking past, Thor had to crouch on the floor. It's fascinating. Very fascinating. Yeah. I'd like to see where all of that happened. And it's interesting because it's somewhere that is opening up more to tourism, isn't it? Yes. I just watched that Ben Vogel in China on Channel 5. Oh, I'd like to see that. Very, very interesting. Oh, I bet. I mean, like, whole cities and regions I've never heard of.

1:04:03Yes, wouldn't that be fascinating to go there? Isn't that so interesting? Oh, I'd love that. I'd love that to see all of that. I've always loved China. I've always been fascinated by China. Yeah. I'd love to see it. Is there a place in, so the Forbidden City you'd like to see? I think Beijing I'd like to spend some time in and see it. And the Great Wall, of course, but for me the Forbidden City just always seems so much more. I hope you make it there sometime soon. I'll let you know as soon as I get there. Fabulous. Tom Allen, thank you. Thank you for having me. Those were your travel diaries and it was so much fun.

1:04:34I enjoyed that.

1:04:39well a huge thank you to tom allen for joining me on the travel diaries what a lovely guy uh really really enjoyed that one i hope you did too his fabulous debut novel common decency is out now i'm about halfway through it at the moment i'm really really enjoying it i'll of course be back next week with a brand new guest so don't forget to hit follow or subscribe on your podcast app so that you don't miss an episode. To find out who's joining me next week, come and follow me on Instagram. I'm at Holly Rubenstein. You'll also find me on TikTok at Holly Rubenstein as well. In the meantime, have a fabulous week and safe travels.

1:05:31today's episode is brought to you by airbnb one thing i have learned from years of traveling is that the trips you remember most aren't always about the big headline sites it's that feeling of getting under the skin of a place. Some of my most memorable stays have been in real homes, in real neighbourhoods where you start to experience that quieter rhythm of somewhere. The morning coffee spots, the local park around the corner, the little details that make a place feel lived in. And of course, many of those homes belong to people who are simply away for a few days or heading off on their own travels.

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