The Two Matts Q&A: Is Andy Burnham a hot dad, and eff off Gianni Infantino

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1:04More than half of the carbon emissions in the history of the planet have been made, have been limited since the science was settled. Is Burnham actually trying to convey a hot dad image? Maybe he is just a hot dad, I don't know. there is a very good green left-wing economic populist message that i think young people find very appealing i think that they have found you know the message of the green party on the gaza very appealing too you know and they deserve to be represented in a growing up way hello and happy sunday everybody happy sunday one and all hope you're all having a great if dry weekend.

1:52That's right. Yeah, this is the Two Mats podcast Q &A session brought to you by the subscribers of the New World magazine. First question comes from Steve. Very topical one. With swathes of France and Spain on fire and Britain in drought for the third time in five years, at what point do the Mats think our politicians will wake up and smell the burning and actually move this climate crisis to the top of the agenda? I ask as a new grandfather of a six month old baby, and I am struggling to comprehend what kind of horrors baby Jessica is going to inherit from my generation. Wow. That comes from Steve.

2:30The very good question. And I share the sentiment behind it. And, you know, I applaud the sentiment because it is odd to me. And I can claim no great virtue in this regard, but, you know, about things I've done. but it the fact that just blew my mind when I think it was in the uninhabitable earth that brilliant by David Wallace Wells that I picked this up which is that more than half of the carbon emissions in the history of the planet have been made have been emitted since the science was settled yeah so in other words we at the very point that we knew what we were doing we we doubled down and specifically to this moment I mean we've been talking about this for ages on the pod but there's been a sort of ratchet away from what appeared to be things moving too slowly but at least in the right direction and I guess you can go back to I mean the moment when I thought oh god this is really bad I mean obviously Trump and climate hoax and all that but when Rishi Sunak in September, I think, 23.

3:42Do you remember he relaxed all the net zero rules? And that, I mean, Kemi Baden-Württemberg has now said she would get rid of them entirely, which is amazing. You know, and you look at the COP annual meetings, and they're just becoming a group hug. You know, when was the last consequential COP meeting? Probably Paris, which is a long time ago. So, again, you know, it comes back to what we're talking about on Thursday, which is, how do you knit together the the fact that everyone's going it's a bit bloody hot to the reasons why and then the actions that not just this country but the whole world has to take and we're not in a good place on this there's no point in you know sugar coating it and I think that one of the biggest problems of the second quarter of the 21st century is how do we get leadership on a national and global scale that knits together the sort of empirical fact of what we're looking at with the necessity for a collective response and solidarity on a national level and on a global level.

4:51And if there was a glib answer, I'm sure we'd all be writing it, but there isn't. But I do think that, and I think that, you know, the point about, really, it's sad, you know, that point about having a little grandchild and the force I don't know about you Matt but the force I thought when this started to become a you know an issue a real issue was people will resent you know the the measures that are being demanded of them and the premiums they have to pay until as will certainly become the case by the way everything gets cheaper but you know there is a transition period when things are more expensive the force that will make people do this is the love of their children and their grandchildren yeah you know they'll be annoyed for themselves yeah yeah but they'll look down at their kids and think i owe this and the fact that that doesn't seem to be a strong enough force yeah is that new is that a new phenomenon i don't know i don't know either and i did i did appreciate the way steve uh framed the question because i think in some ways he's encapsulated what you've just just said which is you can talk about the the abstract notion of a climate crisis you can talk about the consequences of that being you know enormous fires and damage and loss of property and life and and huge uh droughts and the desertification of huge swathes of the earth that will force mass migrations of populations and all and river flows and agriculture being destroyed people you know i've heard lots of farmers in the uk rightly moaning moaning's the wrong word complaining about you know the devastation to their crops again this year i watched clarkson's farm um which is last year and last year's crops on his farm he actually he lost 5 000 quid the whole year's work as a farmer and he actually lost 5 000 quid in the whole year as a farmer um because of the the poverty of the crops that were coming in but if you think it's bad here try the south of spain or the south of italy where river flow quantity is down 75 percent in some places then think about the fact that ethiopia is planning to put a dam on on the nile right to to store water on the nile which will have massive consequences to agriculture in egypt downstream and and then you think about well that the egypt can't allow that to happen well how will they stop it happening well there might be a war you know so So the conflicts of the next hundred years, when baby Jessica, Steve's granddaughter, is going through, this will be what people are fighting world wars over.

7:37It'll be water. And the idea that we sit here and it's still we're befuddled by the scale of the problem and the abstract nature of it, that we can't put a handle on it. it's really really dangerous and it may actually be the thing that is our it's our dinosaur moment you know this could be the dinosaur meteorite that hits us and it's the climate crisis and i do think if there's one organization that has got the infrastructure the framework the bloody name uh it's the united nations and we had we had a question last week was it about Gianni Infantino, should he run the UN? Well, obviously not that dickhead, but somebody with some vision of pulling the world together to try.

8:26That's that, you know, forget COP. It is, as you say, it's a bloody sideshow. You know, it's a conference. Conferences never solve a bloody thing. But to have some purpose and to, and, you know, if the UN said, do you know what our only purpose now is to bring the world together, to try and mitigate what's definitely already going to happen. We can't say we'll solve climate crisis. Oh, no, no, no. It's on us. It's adaptation now. How do we adapt to it is the question. So anyway, not a very optimistic... No, but it's the right answer, you know. All right, shall we move on? Next question from Jane from Beautiful Broccoli, very near to me.

9:05It is indeed beautiful in South East London. Having been quite excited and hopeful about Andy Burnham and his premiership, I am really dismayed by the number of social media posts AB and his team are putting out trying to convey his air quotes hot dad image. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't there something creepy about a 58 year old trying to what's wrong with a 58 year old trying to appeal, trying to appeal to a late 18, 20 audience with some of his media posts. Goodness, the man fancies himself. vomit emoji vomit emoji at the end of it I don't know how to answer this one Jane I'm struggling well I wonder Jane are you projecting a tad is Burnham actually trying to convey a hot dad image maybe he is just a hot dad I don't know he's not my type but I suspect he might be somebody Yeah, exactly.

10:05And as regards to appealing to the late teens and 20s, I think he's got to. Don't forget that they're going to get the vote next time around, 16 or 17 year olds. That's going to be massively important in the outcome of the next general election. he's in the right places on social media to talk to them i think he's doing a pretty good job they did a there was a weird um there was a very weird little um video that he and john healy made together about ranking um pub snacks and he was on he was on the day of the announcement about reducing um um vat for pubs um or rates for pubs whatever it was to give a little bit of money business rates and the two of them um had bags of crisps and peanuts thrown at them and were told to order them in the top five and i thought my god imagine if this was keir starmer and rachel reeves you would never live it down but there was something it was actually very entertaining and quite exactly and it wasn't at all cringe which it should have on face value on paper it should have been the most cringe thing in the world but it wasn't and i think look you know if you think it's a little bit creepy i i don't know i mean he's a happily married i don't think he's i don't think he's trying to be creepy i think he's trying to connect and you know think about what the opposite of that is a guy who ignores that demographic would be fatal i think so fair play to him yeah i mean you're right i think if you're if you i mean never waste the talent is one of the rules of politics right and one of his talents is he is you know incredibly relaxed in his skin you know he's he's actually not everyone is but he is he's at ease with himself and in a politician you know politicians are kind of bundles of neuroses and ambitions and pathologies and sometimes even psychiatric conditions uh you know genuinely uh burnham is one of the most sort of integrated personalities I think I've ever come across in that regard and that it would be a crime to waste that because as you say that pub thing that the the the you know most prime ministers I mean imagine throwing it to you imagine Rishi Sunak right who quite fancied his social media yeah I mean that was cringe right that is uh Kashmir hoodies um so so if if you've got it, you can't waste it.

12:37The second thing is, you know, you're dropped by chance and fortune into a period of history. And, you know, as we both are fans of Marshall McLuhan, you have to use the medium that is dominant in your time. Now, you know, after FDR, it was radio, JFK, it was telly. Obama was the, you know, really the first digital president. Arguably, Trump too was the first podcast president, right? Right. Right. Burnham is very good at social media. So I think it would be a waste for him not to use it. Now, it would be really, really bad if he didn't have anything to back it up with. If it was just posts. Right.

13:18If it was just Trump on truth, social, as it were. But the good news is that it's not. You know, in the first. What are we on? Day 13 now? I forget. I think it is day 13. he has you know made a series of substantial policy announcements and smaller policy announcements and he is a serious he's an emceurier right yeah so it's not as if he's just the tiktok influencer so i think it's okay um i'm you know look i don't really use tiktok but to your point mark you know the the people who are going to be voting for the first time age 16 they do yeah i'll tell i'm just a program just to the very last observation that jane makes which is goodness the man fancies himself i sort of know what you mean all right but that does go hand in hand with confidence and you can't be prime minister no exactly you know and and by the way i think there have been prime ministers who didn't really fancy themselves and i can think of one i I can think of a number.

14:23A number, yeah. You know, I think it's better to have a guy. I mean, Macron is a great example, isn't he? I know Macron is unpopular in France now, but he's had a very good run and he's achieved quite a lot. And Macron fancies himself like nobody else. Nobody's business. If he could, he would. Definitely, definitely. He would. And, you know, but you look at Macron from a distance and you think, fantastic, I'd love to have a national leader like Macron. Well, maybe we've got a little bit of Macron in Burnham. Great. OK, so what? It's such a weird thing to want to do, actually. Yeah. I mean, politicians who reach that level of seniority are so weird.

15:10it's such a I mean you know no it is it is I mean I think one of the things that happens in politics is to your point is people sort of end up because a parliamentarian fails and another person comes in almost by accident right and and they don't fancy themselves yeah yeah exactly what am I meant to do now fancy yourself but I don't you know exactly exactly I think it's just part of the job unfortunately all right let's move to another politician who maybe fancies himself a bit uh And the question comes from Graham. As recently as six months ago, I was a massive Zach Polanski fan. Today, I consider him to be a bit of a knob and out of his depth.

15:48Do the Mats think his bubble has burst? Well, I think a bit of a knob we can sign up to and out of his depth, certainly. The final point we'll come to. I think, yeah, well, the high point, of course, which I think how quickly things move on was Gordon and Denton. and only in February, where Hannah Spencer won the seat for the Greens, saw off reforms Matt Goodwin, which is the Lord's work. So we should be grateful for that. And they were polling at about 20, 21 percent then. And they're now polling around 13. So something has gone wrong. He had a terrible week last week, Zach Polanski, where he just instead of just saying he was sorry about the stupid and, you know undoubtedly violent image of Nigel Farage you know being guillotined on the t-shirt and say I shouldn't have posted that reposted it he got into a terrible you know twist with Victoria Derbyshire on Newsnight saying I'm not going to apologize for it until Nigel Farage apologizes and it was just I thought oh actually you are still a novice and an amateur and you know Because this is, you know, you've been busted.

16:59And when you're busted, apologise and move on. And then everyone will forget about it. But instead, they're all thinking he's the guy who didn't have the honesty just to say sorry. And I think going back to the previous question about fancying yourself. Yes, Zach Polanski certainly fancies himself. But the trouble is that Burnham, you know, has made him look like. Burnham is very deft and agile as a politician in a way that Starmer wasn't and Polanski has been all about agility and movement and down with the kids and all that and I just think Burnham who can also do you know governing the country it would appear we'll see yeah just makes Polanski look like yesterday's trousers and I think there are other things that are starting to I mean this is a smaller point but you know last week the green mayor of Hackney where I used to live sent a letter to her Israeli counterpart in Haifa talking about the potential of untwinning Hackney from Haifa demanding that her counterpart send a response by October the 7th.

18:08These are not serious people. I missed that. That's ridiculous. It's obviously grossly anti-Semitic. It's also, I can't take a party seriously that acts like that. Look, I'm conflicted on this because I think the truth is that Zach Polanski probably is a bit of a knob. And to your point about the Newsnight interview, it was absolutely cringeworthy. And especially when the correct answer, because it obviously had given it a lot of thought. What was he going to say when this was put to him? The correct, obvious answer is to say, yes, I am sorry. Now, will Nigel Farage apologise for all the times he's incited violence against people and stuff like this?

18:51and the hateful atmosphere. So you could easily have deftly moved it, thrown the ball back into Farage's court without making yourself look like a dickhead, which Zach Polanski did. The conflicted part of me is that I really like what he stood for in terms of like a green left-wing populism. You know, I thought that's good, you know, and if people bought into it, that's a good thing. I wish it existed. I just wish that it was somebody a little bit more mature and a little bit more competent with how to deal with that than Zach Polanski. And the risk is that he does fall into that sort of Jeremy Corbyn feel, which is a guy who can excite people and can excite young people as well who are wanting radical change.

19:39That's fantastic. but then has too many personal flaws and shortcomings to really move beyond the initial burst of popularity. And if Zach Polanski is listening to this, get off your bloody phone, mate. You spend far too long on social media. I know that you feel like you've got to connect with people, but there's no excuse for posting what you did or for reposting that Instagram gallery. There's no excuse at all. it reminded me of nothing more than Jeremy Corbyn posting that horrible anti-Semitic I mean grossly anti-Semitic mural and then saying I didn't look closely enough well you didn't have to look at all at that you don't have to look at all at a man wearing a bloody guillotine on his t-shirt I mean what on earth did you think and he's liked a couple of other things as well that have really dubious taste so i think you know when he says i didn't pay attention to it i think well actually i i think you probably did you probably thought it was funny and then you probably woke up and you were aware that you had dropped an absolute bollock on it and backtracked i think you didn't know what you were doing mate i think he's like i mean i think it's interesting you're making a really good point about you know there was a there was a moment and it may still be in you know there are still a lot of people for whom it's the case who find and found his left-wing populism very attractive I think he's letting them down yes I agree with that because big because um you know there is a there is a very good green um left-wing economic populist message that I think young people find very appealing I think that they have found uh you know the message of the Green Party on Gaza very appealing too you know and they deserve to be represented in a grown-up way yeah that's not grown-up politics and it is I mean it is unfortunate that and I think this is one of the things that Burnham is doing actually is that you kind of got this situation now where Farage and Polanski is scrapping you know right right which is of course exactly what Burden wants.

21:57Well, can I make a slightly bigger point? I think he's let everybody down because what he's done through this little act of trivial stupidity is he's given Farage the ability to move the attention away from Farage's five million and all the nasty councillors he's got running, all of that, and suddenly we're talking about this idiot with his guillotine t-shirt. It's given Farage the moral high ground now that yes that that's not just the green party who are losing on that score it's all of us because that absolute twat should be nowhere near the moral high ground and yet he he's been handed that by by uh and part of it you know you you you invoke the the spectre of jeremy corbyn and i think rightly because unfortunately it does take me back to that point where you know it is very corbyn-esque which was i can't be anti-semitic because or or do something that would lead to violence because i'm morally pure you know this line jeremy doesn't have a racist bone in his body doesn't he you know and and that did i mean one thing we should never ever forget is that keir starmer he was a terrible prime minister but he saved the labor party from the absolute catastrophe that corbyn was yeah now the green party is not one of the main parties but it has a chance at the moment to be a very significant party in a sort of multi-party new democracy and polanski came out of the traps very impressively and strongly but he is revealing himself i think to be in some respects insubstantial we'll see we'll see yeah out of his depth is the phrase Graham uses.

23:42I think that's probably about right. Okay, listen, let's take a very quick break and come back with more of your wonderful questions. Dear listeners, we'll be back in a moment.

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24:58Welcome back, dear listeners. Hope you're having a great weekend so far. We certainly are, and we're happy to be here with your great questions. And the next one comes from Stella in Sunderland. obviously solving the social care chaos in the uk is complicated and fraught with political difficulties but where would the mat start very good question and having given this some thought i would start with and i hate to say it the kelly plan an early general election with this front and center of um of a manifesto that was based around a new social contract for britain that recognized that we are not facing we are in a social care crisis we need to take absolutely radical steps to solve it and that is going to involve a whole new attitude towards taxation and i would start by saying there's going to be a hypothecated i know people don't like it the treasury hates it but there'll be a hypothecated tax that will be it might be two pence on the pound everyone will pay it and this will be the starting point the fund that that kicks off uh a national social care health service a national social care service yeah couldn't agree more i mean i i think that uh it is the kelly plan it has to be the part of a campaign you know a new campaign electoral campaign uh based on the principle which i think will become clearer and clearer as louise casey clinical news their review and burnham returns to this that catastrophic costs when you're elderly are a lot worse than people paying some form of contribution during their lives you know like an insurance premium and we need to pull risk and not just on social care and lots of areas i think you could do it through income i personally think wealth is undertaxed you know as it could be part of a new land tax but that's a that's a secondary point the real point is we're gonna have to pay it somehow um and i think it should be progressive in some way so that the wealthy pay a lot more right now it all comes out of the wealth you put aside and then is made as an out-of-pocket payment which is the worst possible way of doing it so yeah i think and i think burnham has already started to reframe it but this is the pitch rolling on this is going to be quite hard um but i'm you know i think he's made a good start definitely i mean look the pick the pitch uh rolling will will definitely um be difficult but i think as funnily enough as this as this um as this becomes an issue that touches more and more of us and i you know i think you'd struggle frankly now to find any family that didn't have a relative who was suffering and certainly by the way even if you don't currently if you're not terrified of the prospect of either being in that situation of having to sell a house to fund for an elderly relative or for your own care as you get older then your your head is stuck in the sand now two pence in the pound uh raising the basic rate of income tax would raise between 14 and 16 billion pounds a year and that that gives us that gives you a great starting point it may not be enough but it is it gives you a great starting point yeah so you know two p on the pound we all pay um we all just have to it's a moment where we've got to bite the bullet and to to not bite the bullet is is going to be catastrophic in in 10 years time never mind the next generation yes and it'll it'll all the reasons that you think you're opposed to that if you are will be meaningless if the things that you've protected from that exactly all the cost mean that you have to sell everything you own you know exactly exactly All right.

28:45So, OK, good. Next question comes from Fiona. And Fiona asks, on advice from Mr. Dancona in his always dangerous in his culture roundup. I rushed to my local multiplex to see Christopher Nolan's The Odyssey. While I had a thoroughly enjoyable three hours, my abiding impression is that the film is an enjoyable but fairly one dimensional action movie. What am I missing? Well, Matt, no one better to answer that. Mr Dancona you mean

29:18I don't think you're missing anything Fiona I mean you know I'm I just say it as I see it right and you know it's no surprise I think to anyone who reads A New World or listens to our pod that I'm a bit of an admirer of Christopher Nolan and I am also quite interested in myth but in the culture roundup and one of the reasons I don't do star ratings right which are very popular and I know John Bleasdale our great film writer who really you know I write about film but he's a film writer he doesn't like star ratings either is I hate the idea that there's a sort of quantifiable objective view of entertainment and art to which everyone has to adhere you know I mean I think some of the arguments about the Odyssey have been the ones that it's too woke or you know it's ridiculous but in terms of just enjoying it well you know if you liked it as a enjoyable one-dimensional action movie fine you know I hope you felt you got value for money Fiona but I mean I you're not there's no sort of this idea that one has to enjoy things I think is a terrible phenomenon you're not missing anything you know your your your verdict on Christopher Nolan's The Odyssey is at least as meaningful as mine you know everyone goes into a gallery or reads a book or goes to a movie or a play and they cut the point is the whole point is you come out and you you have a personal reflection upon it and that will vary from i hated it i thought it was too long i don't like matt damon's beard to i was blown away i'm going to go and see it again on tuesday so yeah that's fine and i you know i know people who think that apocalypse now is a big yawn but they're frightened of saying so well that the godfather there is a tedious family saga for the boys which is poorly lit you know i don't think anyone should have any um i mean the one thing i would say okay so this is a point which is not to do with taste uh or enjoyment but one reason to be of good cheer about the odyssey whether you liked it or not is that even if you thought the movie was a bit mid it's the fact that it is gonna probably next weekend cross the one billion dollar mark and it's not a superhero movie and it's not a star Wars movie, you know, means that there's a bigger chance, not a great chance, but a bigger chance that there are going to be more interesting movies that will cross subsidise the kind of movies you do like and keep cinemas open.

31:46So that's something to celebrate. That's a good argument. And I did think there was more dimension to it. There was a scathing review. What you'll know the classicist's name. Emily Wilson. I did not take that well. I was. It was in the LRB. Yes, no, that was not good. Yeah, I read it and I thought it reeked of, I wasn't employed as a consultant on this film. And I really, I mean, her main complaint was I didn't like, I wouldn't have written a single line of that. And I did feel, but I know that they've taken the first line of my translation of the Odyssey, which was about an uncom... Tell me about a complicated one.

32:30How about a complicated man? But then they've ruined everything else about the production. And it did feel a little bit, it felt a little bit incoherent, really. I mean, look, she's far smarter than I'll ever be. So I can't really say that with much confidence. But I felt it was unfair. And I did feel that watching the film, I actually found the end of it very moving. You know, I was moved by it in a profound way. And the thing that moved me was the idea that we were all struggling to get home. But actually, when you get home, you realise it's a movable feast. There is no, that home has moved on, you know.

33:10And that, I thought, was like a very human and poignant ending to the film where they, I don't want to spoil it for anybody, but, you know, where they say like. It's been out for 3 ,000 years, man. Exactly. No spoilers, you know. Yeah. But I thought, listen, I haven't, I can't remember the last time I sat through a three hour long film and didn't feel it sag at any point. Yes. There was no sagging and it was great. No, no, I agree. I mean, just returning briefly to the Emily Wilson point, it was when I read that piece, I was reminded, oh, she is A.N. Wilson's daughter. Right. Is she? Oh, I didn't know.

33:49Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It all becomes, the apple does not fall far from the tree. Right. And I thought, actually, that it was incredibly ungracious because Nolan didn't. Nolan was very careful not to say that he was just making a version of her translation. But when he was asked about what had inspired him, he said, well, one of the things that I really like was Emily Wilson's bestselling translation. And that. And he's quoted that line. Yeah. um and she and daniel mendelson who's written another very popular translation have been all over podcast tv newspapers talking about it and their books have both had another surge in sales of course so right so by the way she neither is she required to say i loved it it's perfect it's the best movie ever of course just to say oh the writing was crap yeah you know you know when you've written Inception and The Prestige and the Batman trilogy and Oppenheimer and so on tell me about movie writing because it's not the same as translating ancient texts you know?

34:54Yes, yeah I agree and I don't think we're both writers I thought the writing was absolutely there was nothing to complain about and the point I think actually I think Emily Wilson agreed with this point but one of the most ridiculous criticisms of the film is the use of modern vernacular in it dad and all of that and i think to be fair to emily wilson i think she says well that complaint is daft you might as well complain that it wasn't written in ancient you know they weren't speaking ancient greek you know obviously um modern language is a is the right way to go but um i ungracious is absolutely the right word i did and it ends on a sort of backhanded compliments about oh i'm glad it's got all the attention it has because that's good mendelssohn said the right thing which is um he had some criticisms of the of the movie as well and and of course he did because he's a he's a scholar of ancient literature of course he's not going to just sign it off like a kitty but he said you know um well you know whatever i think about this and that and the other isn't it great that everyone on the planet is talking about a 3 000 year old poem and i thought well that's the right attitude yeah that's that's great good okay we've got time for one more Right, and it's a good one.

36:06From George in Switzerland, should FIFA be allowed to sell the World Cup? Well, you know about all this, Matt. What do you reckon? Well, I mean, absolutely, absolutely not. But again, I have slight, I'm slightly conflicted. Gianni Infantino, I think, is revealing himself to be even more odious than Sepp Blatter was. Yeah, yeah. And in terms of, well, let's use the word corruption. I think it's absolutely naked, the corruption. And you can see the narrative which has been building up, the sucking up to Donald Trump, the awarding of that FIFA Peace Prize. And now we discover that a relative of Donald Trump is behind the company that will reap billions and billions of revenues from a privatised FIFA World Cup.

37:02It's an absolute disgrace on every single level because FIFA's responsibility is to manage the game of football. It doesn't own anything. You know, obviously it puts on the World Cup as a commercial enterprise and it has revenues and costs and those monies are fed back into the game. That's the point. Now, for Infantino to come along and say, we're going to basically sell the World Cup as a private vehicle and every football federation will get$40 million as a backhander. thank you for letting go of this prized asset that the world owns, that football fans own. Yeah, exactly. And that he will become el presidente of this new kind of setup.

37:57It's beyond belief. And yet it will probably happen because there are more small nation football federations that that 40 million dollars will be absolutely game-changing for them and there were several came out today saying well look all right smells bad but pragmatically we can see we can see the advantage somebody was on the radio making the case that if you were going to go down this route then list list it you know list it as a private company and let everybody invest in it everybody owns something again i don't think that that's that's right we've already seen the game corrupted by um by financial interests yeah um you know from from the power aid hydration breaks to the expansion of the tournament maybe that's a good thing i don't know but now we're starting to see them talking about well hey we could do this every two years you know right right What happens then to all of the continental tournaments, like the Euros?

39:03You can't do it then. The World Cup consumes everything. So I'm definitely not against change in football. I think the Premier League changed football in England absolutely completely. And that was a big commercial exercise. Has it made it better? Probably it has, net value. I can remember going to the old Football League and it was a pretty miserable experience going to a football match. Now, it's a great, if expensive, experience. So I'm not against change at all. I think it can improve things massively. But it's the nakedness of the corruption that Gianni Infantino represents that absolutely sticks in my throat.

39:46I can't bear it. Yeah, you can see. I mean, we've talked about this on the pod before, But it's this, you know, Trump's use of his power to franchise out to various members of his family and in-laws, huge chunks of global capital and property and assets. And I mean, the weakest argument I felt was I'm not obviously don't, you know, it's not an expert on it. But the was, oh, well, you know, football is so commercial already. And I read I can't remember where it was. I read a very good riposte to that, which is it is. And most sport is very commercial. But this isn't just commercial. It's financialised.

40:25and the point being that what they're proposing to do is essentially to set up an entity that would have huge leverage over the game and not you know to your point not just the the world cup but by implication the game in in regions and no doubt club football as well by an entity that would be exclusively looking to um at the bottom line and profits yeah and dividends and that is not the same no as selling you know advertising space in the stadiums to pepsi or even tv rights you're actually saying that the only thing that matters yeah is how how do our investors get a return because because shareholder return is the ultimate responsibility of any company you know and rightly so you know i mean that's that's why we keep that kind of thing at a distance from something like this and it is the job of FIFA as I understand it to strike a balance between you know the financial health of the game but also ensuring that people aren't playing too many because I would imagine this is also another implication of this is that footballers elite footballers will be would be expected inevitably to play more and more and more international fixtures yes um and that can't be good can it no no it can't i mean the the football calendar is already um far too far too busy um i mean look can you imagine can you imagine for a second what people would say if they made the same proposal about the olympics yeah and and the world cup is the olympics of football you got these two and and they're huge huge human achievements these tournaments you know the idea that you can bring all of these nations together in with one focus around a a sport or a set of sports in the olympics and and the whole planet pauses and watches it these are human human achievements that rank alongside anything else we've ever achieved as a species they are and for this bald twat and i say that as a bald twat myself as this bald twat to come along and say i'm gonna i'm going to personally oversee the rape and pillage of this game and make myself a multi-multi-millionaire it it must be blocked but i bet it won't be mad i bet it's disgusting and actually you may you know you did mentioning the olympics sends a chill down my spine because of course i hadn't thought of this until you said it but what's happening in 20 fucking 28 yes yeah you know the olympics are coming to america right now you can bet your bottom dollar that trump's next port of call will be the IOC, ensuring that they give him a peace prize.

43:11IOC peace prize. I like them, right? And then sometime in his final year in office, as that indeed is his final year in office, a member of the Kushner family or Donald Jr. will put up a capital plan, or Eric will put up a plan to buy the bloody Olympics. Yeah, yeah. Well, listen, we've seen corruption in the IOC in the past where people have flogged votes for, you know, candidate cities and stuff like this, but it's been rooted out. You know, that's what's good about the Olympics is that, you know, embedded within it is this kind of Corinthian sporting ideal. And it's all about these ideals. And that should apply to FIFA as well, but it so obviously doesn't.

43:55I have a horrible feeling that 10 years after the Trump era ends, we'll all wake up and discover that huge parts of the world that we thought was still publicly or sort of publicly owned were actually owned by his descendants. You know, that Baron Trump owns the Middle East. That's right. As a consequence of the Board of Fucking Peace, right, which we now can see clearly had nothing to do with peace at all, did it? No, we'll all have to wake up one morning and there'll be a bottle of Powerade on the kitchen table and he'll say, it's your hydration break now, Matt. Yes, you know, the borough of Islington is owned by, you know, sponsored by Ivanka you know I'm serious I'm kind of serious you know this is the long tale of Trumpism you know is that he'll leave the US in a state of you know on life support trying desperately to preserve the republic and people all over the world will wake up and discover that they're owned by his grandchildren well isn't this sort of the plot of um infinite jest it's kind of David Foster Wallace long novel about the mad commercialization of everything.

45:06Yeah, it really is. And it's it's it's a it's a that in a funny way. I mean, although I totally and utterly, you know, I'm bored for let's keep an eye on Trump as a, you know, a breach of constitutional norms. And that's task number one for the Americans and anyone who cares about America. The long term plan is now keep the Trump franchise globalized. And, you know, billions they're taking in already that we know of, that we know of. Listen, maybe we're just jealous because we haven't got a sponsor for this podcast. So folks, if you're listening out there and you've got deep pockets, well, they don't have to be that deep.

45:47and you fancy sponsoring our podcast. Don't buy, Mr. Kushner. If you're listening, Josh Kushner, right? You can sponsor the two mats. It's so much cheaper than FIFA, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the quality of conversation is much, much better. Yeah. So listen, if you're... Make podcasting great again. Yeah, yeah. Listen, serious point. If you have got a few quid and you fancy sponsoring the two mats podcast, then get in touch with me. Go to 2mats at tnepublishing.com. That's the number two M-A-T-T-S at tnepublishing.com. And let's have a chat. And that's also... Yeah, we are totally, I want to say, we are wholly independent.

46:31Wholly independent. Although you hum it, we'll sing it, right? Yeah, that's right. Now, just before I nip off my bottle of Powerade... Yes, I like a cool, delicious drink of Powerade at this time of the day, Matt. Just to double down on our independence, I've tasted Powerade and it ain't all that. It's yucky. Absolutely vile, vile stuff. So anybody but Powerade. Yeah, get in touch. And that is also the email address to send in your questions for next week's Q &A. Actually, we've got a bit of news, haven't we? There isn't one next week because we're on holiday. Matt, I don't know what you're doing.

47:09Are you doing some work? I'm doing some work. I've got some other side hustle stuff to do some stuff to do and i'm going on a bit of a road trip in northern spain with my oldest son so i'm looking forward to that that's going to be good fun um but we'll be back um we'll be back the week after next folks um maybe before a week on thursday almost certainly there'll be plenty to talk about so you bet you guys have a great week um subscribe to the new world uh the newworld.co.uk and get a free copy of our bestseller the history of brexit in two 256 disasters. And all that remains is for me to thank the third Matt, Matt Withers.

47:48Thanks, Matt. For producing the show and have a wonderful week. Have a wonderful week.

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