#46 - Shane Stewart - XOXO Soda [Brand Director]

0:00Hello, hello, hello and welcome back to the Unfounders. Today I am joined by Shane Stewart, the brand director at XOXO Soda. Shane is absolutely amazing. I met him back at the days of Northern Block. He's then gone on to Moju, another absolutely fantastic brand. And now what XO Soda are doing in the prebiotic fibre soda space, they are absolutely flying. It's a gorgeous brand. Shane has so much energy, passion, excitement, knowledge, experience, and he shares so many lessons within this. I really, really hope you enjoy it. We touch on what he's doing with Step by Steppers. This was a few years ago when he lost his dad.

0:33So we do talk about grief towards the end of this episode. I really urge you to listen. He's turned something that is a big moment into something that's really uplifting and positive and helping others. So it's an important conversation to have. With that in mind and without further ado, let's get on with the episode. I am so excited to announce that Mission Kitchen, London's home for food and drink entrepreneurs, are sponsoring the unfounders. If you're a chef, baker, or food brand looking to grow, Mission Kitchen are the place to take it from kitchen table to the next level. I've been to the site in Niamh multiple times, and you can truly feel the energy and excitement in the room.

1:05They support a membership of more than 100 startup businesses, giving flexible access to commercial kitchen space, expert mentorship, and of course, a network of fantastic founders, which is truly invaluable. If you're ready to take your business to the next level, head on down and book a tour today at missionkitchen.org forward slash unfounders. Hello and welcome back to the Unfounders. Today I'm joined by the brilliant Shane. So Shane, can you let everyone know where you work and what your role is, please? I can indeed. Lovely little intro. Brilliant Shane. I'm going to put that as my LinkedIn name now.

1:35So I'm Shane, brilliant Shane. And I, as you probably tell from the background, I'm currently the brand director at XOXO Soda. And for those who have never heard of XOXO Soda, haven't seen it before, give us the spiel. Like, what is it? Who's the founder? Like, what's the story? Yeah, so, I mean, it's completely my job to make sure everyone now hears of it and knows what it is and sees it out and about. But yeah, when you wear a prebiotic soda, a full flavour soda, six grams of prebiotic fibre in there, fully plant-based, all natural, low sugar, all the buzzwords you can think of. But at heart, we're essentially, you know, that modern, contemporary soda that looks good, tastes good and does good for you.

2:14And it was set up two years ago now. So we've literally just last month, it was our two-year anniversary or birthday. and it's set up by by rory and nick and sort of like rory's got like a an extensive past within fmcg and and then yeah this this was sort of like created out of his love for foods and drinks that that do good for you and it's absolutely it's just been it's just been blowing and it's uh yeah i mean i joined myself three months ago four months ago now so it's very much still very fresh and it's exciting it's crazy as i mentioned it's growing super super fast and i mean i love it like it's just um it's a great company it's a great product and you know it's great when you just see it out and about people talking about it and the fact that it tastes good and and is is is is perfect in a very busy crowded market i'd say yeah i mean the the branding is absolutely gorgeous all the products are so delicious like the lychee is stunning i know that was like a whole food exclusive to launch and now i think it's more widely available but yeah i mean you only joined back in what was it february so a few months yeah um but the brand i saw rory's posts um the other week and it was saying how since they've grown Europe was like a huge market first and then it's kind of taken that success back into the UK and that's what 10 ,000 points of distribution yeah across yeah across Europe it's pretty it's pretty crazy I think there was some some article picked up on on 10 ,000 points in the UK which is definitely the aim and the goal but it's currently you know what press is like it's currently 10 yeah around 10 ,000 sort of distribution points across Europe.

3:44And yeah, I mean, it launched in the UK at the same time as everywhere. And I think we had a few routes to market across Europe. But one of the original stockists was Whole Foods Market in London. And yeah, they remain a sort of like a vital and pivotal stockist for us and everything we've done and everything we do. So, and then yeah, since then, two years ago, as I mentioned, it's just skyrocketed across Europe, Netherlands, Germany, Austria, sort of all like key, key regions with you know quite a high market penetration across there and actually active actively in those markets and not just like you know we sent off a few pallets and you know suddenly we're in that market it's like the rest of this is actually a market that we're activating and i found myself now having to manage the marketing across which is super interesting and understanding all the different trends across across europe and across each country and but super fascinating and yeah it's just it's just going crazy which is super exciting you guys seem to have like absolutely come out of nowhere and then i mean every event i've been to recently you guys are turning up the stand is gorgeous the branding's bright it's loud so for from your time in being there like in the last few months like what have been some real highlights for you because it just seems like you're absolutely everywhere right now i'm gonna i'm gonna screen record that bit and post that yeah i mean the main thing for us you know it's about being in the right places at the right time some of that comes down to luck and serendipity of like what's happening and trending but a lot of it comes you know from from strategic and tactical thinking um and you know being at the right trade shows being in the right events uh a lot of a lot of planning to you know goes into that and sort of like you know the past few months of me being here you do also have have to hop onto trends and whatever's happening and put yourself there the way i see it is if it's not you doing it somebody else doing it so you've got you've got to be the first and act fast and that's down to the team that we're building and and so like uh you know the process that we're putting in place is to be able to do that really sort of like reactively but as i say like yeah it's being in the right places but also yeah knowing where we want to be the team now including myself and you know in Rory's Rory's experience is like we we've got that experience to know where we where we want to be uh and I say that's not to say like we know we've got it completely right like you know there's always going to be testing learnings figuring it out things change um but yeah I think a big part of like making sure I can start up goes in the right path is to know what path to be on and I think there's so there's so many paths out there that you know it's hard and I think you know a lot of startups without experience sort of fmcg startups without any experience in in the field definitely need sort of like clearer pathways and that's definitely coming through um you know podcasts like like this you know events like bread and jam which i know you're a massive fan of and like all those top places like actually providing you know in these brands that have like really good products and getting them to the market where they need to be because i couldn't tell you and you probably know how many brands have like come and gone over the you know for recent years and even over the past 10-15 years because their pathway just wasn't it wasn't it wasn't going down the right way.

6:34So yeah, extremely important for all the infrastructure around and the people and networking and forums like this for new people and new startups and challenger brands to come into the space and get themselves where they need to be. We all know that brand is important, right? But what if I told you it can impact growth and customer acquisition costs by up to 50 %? Against Ordinary are a brand agency who help founders, marketing departments, scaling teams ensure their brand is the most powerful tool for growth from brand strategy tone of voice and visual identity to helping you get retail ready with ongoing brand growth attainments they really are the full circle agency for growing your brand being the team are absolutely fantastic just imagine what they could do for your brand so what are you waiting for see how they can be your grand growth partners against ordinary.com and i think functional soda just seems to be a term that people know but there was a prior time a few years ago even in fact where in the UK it wasn't really a thing America's always been ahead Europe obviously seems to be doing it with you guys clearly owning the market and leading it there so what do you think it is about like what you guys and other brands are starting to offer in this space that consumers are just getting more on board with yeah I think it's uh it's just genuinely understanding it's a little bit like us being in the generation that we are thinking I think we like where we we started to realize wait a minute like too much alcohol consumption is not a good thing like turns out chaining a litre of vodka at freshers week in uni isn't good for you and it's same same as having like you know the classic like full sugar coca-colas junk food fast foods all this you know and you can relate to massively with with Mitch's kitchen it's actually provided and this was years ago right so it's not just like recent times this is like you know a big role that's happening from from like our the millennial generation and sort of like then Gen Z are really taken on board and being like, what were you guys playing at?

8:22Like, why were you eating that? Like, why were you drinking that stuff? Like, it makes no sense. So, yeah, so it's not like I think it's boomed. It's boomed quickly, but it's been a long time coming and there's been a lot of trends along the way, certain types of foods, certain superfoods that don't last. But then again, it comes down to supply and demand. But, yeah, I definitely think, you know, Gen Z and the generations below are going to like, you know, this is where it's leading, but it has to come from the generations above as well. um so yeah so america being such a big market you know they've got you know hundreds and hundreds of whole foods and other various independents that lead the charge on like taking these innovative products um and then yeah across you know uk and parts of europe that really seeing that as well and there's some countries that are you know hugely potentially even including ourselves are quite lagging behind i mean you look at japan or like you know a lot of asia they've been having functional foods and drinks for not even tens of years hundreds of years it's like literally their upbringing and we're saying, oh, we've created this whole new product over here and there's this brand here and there's that brand there.

9:21But actually, you know, you go to Tokyo, you go to Japan and they're laughing. It's like, we've been on this trend for years. It's what we've grown up on. So yeah, so it's all around us all across the world. But I think it's just getting back to the basics of going, okay, if it's green, it's likely good for you. That type of thing. Like we pivoted when things started to taste too nice. Sorry, too good for you. And we wanted something that was cravings. That's why everything was pumped with sugar back in the 60s, 50s and 60s America. And it's definitely going back around now and going, wait a minute, that is not needed.

9:51I want to enjoy my life. I want to live life to the fullest. I want to put the best things inside my body. And if that means it's a green juice, then I'm having a green juice. If it means I'm eating whole foods, then I'll eat whole foods. And I've experienced things in my life with my family, and I'm sure we might touch on it, but personal circumstances that you want to be the best you can for your friends, for your family, for your work, whatever you're doing. and that means that means being health health conscious and that's what that's what we're seeing now so that's why you know there's such a big rise in these brands and products because everyone's on that same i don't know everyone's on that same rocket ship like these individual ships but i think ultimately everybody get on board strap in because we're on this journey together yeah i think it's also delivering on things that people are hearing in the ether like oh you need to improve your gut health you should be eating more fiber you need to be doing that and you're like well i don't know what to do i don't know where to start well hey but that's what yeah yeah Yeah, it's so true.

10:41But that's always been the case, right? Like doctors, an apple a day gives a doctor away and then suddenly, wait, apples cause cancer. And it's like, well, you can't, you know, do you know what I mean? It's like, there's always something. And I think ultimately, the bait, getting the basics right of just eating natural foods, you know, that are like, that are just grown organically and grown naturally. the problem was is when when organic has become expensive and and sort of like you know everything else that's going on the world and of course i'm there it's easy for me to sit here and say eat naturally and eat all this but you know that comes sadly comes at a cost because of the way society and politics works but yeah i think it's understanding like what what we can do but yeah there's a lot of noise in it in terms of like well suddenly mushrooms are great but then wait no certain mushrooms are bad and it's like oh no you can't have mushrooms again it's like this and nootropics this and everything so there's definitely a lot of noise in it and that's probably because the amount of brands that are in the space as well that are trying to jump on it and you know essentially grow um it does create a lot of noise for for the average consumer so it's like you know the consumer can be there and go wait a minute i'm being told this i'm being told that there's there's something in here but it's not the same amount in here somebody's telling me that's natural or it's cold pressed or if it's ambient then what does this mean blah blah blah so then you know consumers revert back to going do you know what it's too much of a headache i just want you know i just want a cheeseburger with my with my full fat coke and it's like it goes back to that so it's about working together as i say all being on that rocket ship and being like look there's you know if we stick up we create this union of brand union and then we can then we can do it together yeah i mean i think you guys have absolutely nailed it with the the proposition the brand the look and feel like it's super bold bright vibrant and then the flavors like the orange it's like a punch in the face it's a delicious orange like as i said the lychee i think i cracked it it was the chelsea whole foods market it was a glorious sunny day stepped outside like crack the can, like first, oh, this is perfect.

12:27So I remember, I remember the picture you sent me. But it's things like that. It's like a moment of joy, essentially, of like you seeing it, purchasing it, it looks nice, cracking it open and being like, bloody hell, like this tastes good. Like this is a genuine soda that tastes like a soda should taste. It's refreshing. It's natural. It's giving me like that kick that I need in terms of like, you know, what I expect from a fizzy drink. And it's good for my gut. Like it's a win-win all around. and like the lychee has absolutely like gone crazy we couldn't we couldn't have asked for a better it was such a weird one because like it was quite a quick launch like we didn't do any massive like build up to it it was like we launched into whole foods it was uh exclusive with the new store and i think uh we sold across across the board we sold 760 units of lychee specifically on the first day which is mental which is which is messed up it's good but it's messed it up a little bit in terms of longevity of it but how do we do week on week and month on month when it's like that but um no it's been great and and again like i mentioned whole foods at the beginning like they their support you know we they're a massive impact as to why why we're able to to grow so yeah we we're super thankful there to whole foods and super thankful to you know to be like when you send those messages and be like mate this is class and i'm like that's sweet like you can be having a really bad day right and stressful day and things going off but actually all it comes down to is like one customer one consumer enjoying the drink and messaging about it it's like sweet that's what we're doing it for this is the whole reason yeah no exactly and i think when you're building a brand and as your role doing all things brand it's these little touch points of these moments it's like that is where the brand longevity and you know you're on the right track when people are reaching out and giving these comments or telling their friends or you see a whatsapp chat and everyone's like oh yeah i love it like these are the little moments that like you dream of yeah massively and you pointed out like you know you're turning up at trade shows and we're at you know london coffee festival which i definitely you know i've been that's my i think it was my sixth or seventh year doing that with like my third brand the third brand now and i know how to do it and how to do it right and i'm not last without being big-headed it's just understanding how the how the market works and the comments that we got i could have linkedin went crazy after that and that was because we just did the back end goes back to basics just getting the basics right and really really knuckling on it um you know the comments that we got on linkedin it's like makes it all worth while because again it's you know what a trade show is like the lead up to that is crazy the our plan that goes into it they're doing it like four days straight it's like it's knackering and then yeah you know you kind of like come back and there's no time to unwind you're straight back in the office because you've missed out on four days of work and you see all these like comments coming through being like xoxo smashed it best stand best play drink i've not blah blah blah i'm on my custom for life and i'm like sweet again that's the exact reasons it makes everything worthwhile on the actual team side now as we've kind of alluded to the the brand and the business is growing like daily how big is the team now and what's your setup are you remote you have an office like what's the what's the vibe we we do have an office we uh we're in a shared workspace at the moment and we're actually in the process of finalizing our our own office just down the road and so we're based in based in london bridge so it's super exciting it's like a big moment for any brand to sort of like get their own office and we're in the process of branding that up and yeah i can't wait we can't wait to have our own space but the team is growing like growing exponentially and that's all across Europe as well so we've you know we've got to make sure we're getting the right pardon me the right team members across uh you know our key markets Germany solidifying ourselves in those key cities key areas making sure we're marketing right there um so yeah growing the team is is a big you know it's a big part of what we're doing at the moment and you know we we recently raised um you know an investment round and it's putting that money you know to strategic use um and it's things like the background bits like like the office and like the team so that we can then do big big brand stuff with the right people in place and since i mean we're probably on about team wise across europe it's probably about 15 of us now something around that mark but i mean like nine six six months ago nine months ago it was half that so it's literally it's to meet it's to meet with with demand is to meet with the with the growth and we have to hire those we have to hire quickly but we have to hire right and it's uh and that's a that's a that's a task in itself but um and also building the culture right like we want to make sure like this is a place and it's a big thing for me and you know what i'm like i'm like happy go lucky and you know it's good good vibes but it's a major thing like it's a working in a startup and a challenger brand is demanding in no matter what what anybody says is it is demanding and with demand and a lot of work it comes stress and i'm not trying to say like oh god everyone's stressed all the time it's about making sure we aren't stressed by finding those points early doors and so yeah i mean i want my team i want to make sure like you know we're performing high performance this is a big thing as well you know recent years like high performing teams and high performing leaders and all this it's like you've got to be waking up at 5am and doing 6 000 press-ups and you know doing this is like wait just chill out it's like what do we need to do to perform and what do we need to do to unwind so that we can perform the best we can and that's the but that's my sort of like motto because yeah start up it's hard work it's tiring just making sure i can i am weak provide the space that the team needs the culture where we respect the downtime because it's not only that that's needed it's required for me like it's required i need my team to have the best downtime they can possibly have and so they come into work happy and buzzing excited every time because if they're getting stacked up with workload it's like oh my god and naturally cracks start to happen and that's the last thing i want so yeah in order to be the best we can it's it's about about finding those moments where we can we can unwind together and individually as well but yeah the the new office is going to be really exciting it's going to put the team you know in a really good place we work work from home and we we're figuring that out in terms of it's always different across the board but ultimately you know to be the best it's you you want to be there cohesively in those meetings together in in a startup brand it's like reactive so like if you if you're if you're not online or you're not available not saying you have to be 24 7 but it's um you know that works a lot easier when when you're together in one place um but as i say like you got to take those a big thing i learned from from my previous role is is focus time it's hard to do the work you originally planned to do in that day or week or quarter a month a year sounds like a friend song but it's like you know you've got to take your focus time to back away and do the things you need to do before you dive back in because when you're in the office this is going on over here and this is going on over there and someone's asking you to do this and you're not absolutely able to do what you set out and you'll know this more than anyone as well mitch like you know your to-do list doesn't get done the work's still happening because you're doing things it's not like you sat around twiddling your fingers but uh i think working cohesively but managing that time effectively is another key part to successful growth yeah no i think um We'll definitely dig into your history in a second.

18:56But I think within a startup, it's like the highest highs and the lowest lows. And they can come within like the drop of one email or one phone call. It's like, yes, massive win. Oh, no, massive problem. And having that team and reactivity and being together, I think, is so important. And it sounds like you guys are trying to get that balance. I think it's really hard. Like balance is, again, very kind of subjective. It's like what is balance for one person is very different to another. um so what for you guys outside of the the working hours do you do anything as a team to to unwind like do you have away days what's the kind of right guys we just need to take a take a step what's yeah yeah yeah i think i think that's something that we're building at the moment and definitely something i'm trying to instill is like yeah is those and again probably originates from from previous previous companies is is having those team days but also not feeling like forced forced fun and forced team days because that can usually be like you know like It's quite like classic corporate 1990s team day away.

19:51And it's like, what is this achieving? Actually, you end up hating your colleagues more than ever, which we don't, by the way. But yeah, I think it's just making sure everyone, to your point as well, it's, you know, everyone's individual. So one person's idea of fun isn't somebody else's. But the thing for me is like actually understanding what it's like for somebody like a big quote that I'm living by this year is, don't yuck somebody's yum. And it's such a weird little quote, but it's essentially don't, I don't know if we could swear, but it's like don't piss on somebody's like you know if somebody enjoys something don't put them down for enjoying that i grew up and especially being a male so you can't like certain things you have to be like that this and the other so you kind of force down certain routes but for me it's like i remember like i think it was probably because i saw what's it called that film with the um the the ballet guy billy what's he called billy elliott uh billy elliott yeah not that i ever became a uh ballet or i've ever even taken a shine to i remember i remember watching that film being like he couldn't like that he right he couldn't like ballet he wasn't allowed to do that because it wasn't right and i remember thinking and we kind of grew up and the whole obviously the whole story is like no you should chase your dreams but that kind of that still happens to date like people are forced to do something so i think yeah don't yuck someone's yum and if and i want to try and bring that into the team and be like look somebody that might like something that you might not like but let's let's let's see them like something let's go and do that and the next you know month we'll do something that somebody else likes and we can see if i actually you might like that or just at least see how happy it makes somebody when they're doing something they like i think that's the main thing you can take from it yeah i actually saw a post earlier today from my friend nicole along the similar lines of like i realized i was letting others other people's opinion kind of change my mood and affect what i believed in and what i loved and i was like as i've got older like i mean i'm only 35 but over the years like when you're in your kind of 20s or teens it's like everything you're doing is like you're trying to impress someone or you're trying and like prove people and all of that.

21:40I think you get to a stage where you're like, you know what? I'm going to do what makes me happy. I'm going to do the things I love. I'm going to love the cheesy music, the films, the rom-coms, like whatever it is. If I'm into it, I'm into it. And I will like no holds barred say, yeah, I absolutely love that. Like no shame. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And I think, and you can apply that and that's massively like those, those sort of like personal aspects to life to work as well. Because like you feel like you have to do something because, you know, another, another sales manager has done, another account manager has done this or another BDM has done that or another brand manager's done this every year so suddenly having to do that because somebody else has done it it's like i remember thinking that when i first started out in my career i was like damn i'd see something that someone's done i'm like oh i felt bad was like i'm gonna get told off by like my manager because we're not doing that like and it should have been doing i was like no we're on a different track like we're doing this and you're we're always so quick to look at and sort of like look at something else that's happening and not look at the things that we've achieved and go oh yeah of course we did that and they're probably looking at from the other side going oh look what shane did over here look at that and it's like we you know they're probably thinking the same thing oh we should do that so no one's like you know no one's ever taking that step back to look at themselves and congratulate themselves and i think that's a that's a major major part you should try to do that at the end of every day um without going to sort of like deep into philosophy now but like it's you know value you know take take any wins a win take the wins and the wins and to your point like this game that we're playing like it can all change so quickly so you've got to really really appreciate and respect the wins and the good times so when yeah when i see somebody that makes someone's happy because there's something that makes them happy that i wouldn't think about making me happy that makes me happy like so yeah it's infectious as well like true happiness yeah exactly i saw i saw like this viral video of a guy just literally sat there with his pint i mean like his first sip and just going like literally on his own and the amount of comments were like yeah you can't beat that like that one first sip like the right time of day where it just like hits different you're like and it was even me with the same thing yeah man exactly and that's the that's the whole why it's like the big big part to to marketing and brand is is the why and you know there's a there's a great book like start with why by simon sinek and it's like i've lived like my whole like sort of career not only career but my life by that it's like why am i doing this like if it's not bringing me value like should i be doing it even like again going deep it's like the people you surround yourself by um you know with or around you what the thing what you're getting up to at the weekend because it has it has an effect for the for the the mood that you put yourself in for the week ahead is like surround yourself with people that inspire you surround yourself with people that doing things that make them happy that then turn and makes you happy inspire yourself you know around people that want to push you to do new things to take that step that's you know that's that's what you want to be you want to and the guy taking you know taking that sip of that beer and and whatever you don't know what's happening in you know has happened in his day or is happening in his life but that moment living in the present of enjoying that first sip on that beer or drink or whatever it might be you don't have to be you know an alcoholic beer but like uh it that's the moment that they're the moments that bring joy and like you know you can sort of like put everything else on pause and that's that's a big thing for us is like it's almost a bit like you know the kitkat campaign for well it's not even a campaign it's their motto of take take a take a break it's like they absolutely smashed that and that's that's what i'm trying to still hear is like taking this moment oh here's one i prepared earlier and like opening the can and then zipping it it's like that's a moment i'm enjoying i'm preserving maybe not because i'm talking over the top of it but but like it's those moments of being like ah this moment's for me like the guy drinking the beer it's like that's for me so whatever that is and that's what fmcg can provide like you need food to survive you need water to survive you need snacks snacks make you happy whatever it might be like these brands ultimately here to provide a purpose so that's that and again just going back to the shift of like healthy if you can have a healthy alternative a healthy option that still tastes good like it's an absolute win-win because they're those moments to provide them for people to bring those moments of joy oh that was a nice little full circle there yeah perfect and uh we'll take things right the way back now so i think when we first met i'm pretty sure it was northern block this was many years ago now um but i'd love to share with the listeners like your your working career so from education to to where you are now like what's your career journey followed and how did you end up in the world of drinks yeah it's big it's a big old journey i mean i say it's big it's only like eight nine years um but yeah i remember when i I remember when we first met, I remember the first conversations we had.

25:53I think we were both inspired by each other's inflectious energy and passion. You were running Mitch's Kitchen, as I already mentioned. And yeah, I was at Nolan Block. So before that, I did nothing related to marketing or brand or anything like that, advertising at uni. I studied architecture and planning at Sheffield. And then after that, I went and, you know, after graduating, I traveled Asia and I lived in Australia for two years. and I think that's where I realized when I come back I had to make a decision of like do I follow what I want to be doing or I've done my marketing sorry done my degree in or do I want to go down a different route okay when I came back I was like yeah what I was studying like isn't for me and I need I need money mainly when I came back I was broke after two years in Australia like living living the life of like early 20s I came back with like zero money so I was like I need a job fast so I kind of got a job in a coffee shop I picked up like latte art and like the whole coffee shop culture over in melbourne so i've like got a got a job in a in a coffee shop in leeds which is my hometown big up and then i i sort of like reached out i was like i actually need a career now like i need a salary i need a full-time job and i started reaching out to brands that were cool and that was it wasn't specifically like i was like right i need to go into fmcg like i don't think i actually really knew what that was it was just like for me it was like it's just a uh a business like i wanted to i need i knew i needed to work somewhere but I knew that I wanted to work for somewhere cool and a cool brand and I knew of the uh the journey that Northern Block was on they'd started up just as I went to Australia and they were disrupting the sort of like the ice cream world you know going against the normal of you know dairy field you know cows and like green fields and blue skies and blah blah blah and Ben and Jerry's and this that and the other and whatever it might be like Cornish ice cream that's actually got no cream in it so it was very different and we and we and they launched this a dairy free which I know you you're a big fan of the the plant-based ice cream and it was insane and I reached out to them I was like look love I like followed you for the past couple years I love what you're doing um wonder if you've got like any jobs going whatever it might be uh just to help out and I would send that email across to a few other brands as well in Leeds that were doing cool stuff in like the coffee scene there was a brand called like Northstar there's a bit uh oh the light's in my uh little zoom booth wait one sec there it is I'm back on uh yeah there was a few brands I sent out to no one but came back and was like oh actually we've just hired somebody but like let's you know keep we'll keep each one in touch two weeks later this person they they wasn't right they reached back out and was like look we want you to come and do this and this can you do that and i was like don't know what any of that means but i'll come and do it um so yeah that was like this sort of my yeah that's how i started in the world of of marketing my my career fmcg was sort of like i became this like sort of a full-time brand ambassador so everything i lived and did was to do with the brand uh you know representing the brand at all touch points and learning learning marketing as i as i went on so that was a good four years of my life three and a half four years of my life there that went into covid you know and that's when everything sort of changed and then following on from that i i moved to london and started at moju which was like a dream job dream brand for me at the time everything i'd learned at norval block i really wanted to apply and yeah i did whatever i could to um to sort of get that job including making my own sort of like Moju ginger bottle with my CV on it around it as a flavour.

29:04And I put a cover letter inside of it, which was a QR code, like a message in a bottle. So yeah, I did whatever I could to stand out and it did. And I got that job and I was there and I loved every single second and moment of my time at Moju, which is, you know, it was a tough one to sort of like make the decision and leave and to sort of like further my career now at XO, which, you know, we've already mentioned, started a few months ago now. so that's sort of like the career of how I've got to where I have um a lot of it's kind of been fast-tracked and I think that's just from doing doing doing and just getting maybe that northern spirit of just getting out there and doing it and action in it and but also just believing in it believing in the product that you're selling that you're marketing that whatever you're doing you're sampling like genuinely believing in it obviously it's easier when the product's great but like yeah if you can get behind it like it's a dream like it shouldn't feel like a job that I you know I get to sort of like create this you know or expand the brand awareness of this product behind me or or a ginger shop before that or an ice cream before that yeah it's very weird I think if you asked my family what I did they would have no idea I think my little cousins still think I'm an ice cream man but um so yeah the world of FMCG is crazy but ultimately it's um you know it's a it's an industry it's a business at the end of the day and you know you got to do what you got to do to keep that business like businessing yeah I mean I love that story especially the the Moju CV thing I remember like sharing that and seeing it and being like this is genius I yeah done similarly for like the roles that I've been hired at like the photoshopped CVs and it does go a long way and I think it's that level of attention and care it really does pay dividends to the employer and the team you're working in and I know both Northern Block and Moju brilliant projects brilliant teams love what they're doing um is there anything kind of I mean I'm sure there's plenty within those those roles that you've kind of learned and taken with you into your role now i'd love to unpick any of those stories or lessons along the way you're like this was such a key moment or key yeah for i think i think being out and about i don't you know product and services are completely different sectors i think when you're selling a service like you can do that and now more than ever it's all ai right but like people sell people market and like being out and about that was the biggest thing i can like probably take away from it and i don't think there was only one point where i was like well maybe it's like reactions to things and you know like understanding the reactions to people being like wow this product's great they were the they're the moments where you go okay that we're onto something as i say like you know back to the point where you sent the message from from the lychee flavor it's like oh shit like this tastes so good that i want to tell that person about it and that's what you can do with a startup brand the challenge brand you can't do that with pepsi or you know you know i don't know if we've got copyright to say these to say big names but like the big the big boy the big person names is like you couldn't just reach out and go oh i love this new pepsi flavor mate it's like who you speak like do you know i mean you got a thousand two thousand people in in in hr alone there so yeah it's crazy so it's like it's that sort of like personality behind the brand and that's what really for me was like a big standout moment like people love the people that are making this brand it's not like you know it's not a computer it's not a computer it's not there it's not like you know just another conglomerate it's like it's actually people that are doing it and i think that's been a big you know the big rise in fmcg over the past few years is like the barriers to entry have probably got quite low so you know it enables which is great because it enables anybody that you know passionate enough to create a brand but then it's like but then what's the next step and that's what i like you know i get inbounds all the time being like hey love what you've done here or there and they're like can you help me with this can help and rory gets it and you know everyone when we're at mojo everyone gets it i'm not saying it's just me but like everyone gets that because like people see what you've done and like and they're like i'm they're stuck and it goes back to that what i said about earlier about the pathway it's like you want you know we we now and why you're doing this and why it's so great that you have this podcast is that it's creating those pathways.

32:46It's putting a platform and a forum out there for people to understand, listen, absorb, and go, okay, sweet. That one tiny little nugget of information could actually, you know, change the absolute, you know, the trajectory of what a brand or a business is going down. So, yeah, I think just peep, like, off on a tangent a little bit, as I always do. But I think, yeah, it's just getting out and about and understand what the consumers are thinking and, like, you know, seeing the reactions to the taste. but i think that was that was like unique for moju because ginger shots were like you know it made you pull a face it made you have that reaction and it kind of gave it a bit of a craveability of people like all right you know we really leaned in in our marketing for that was like leaning into that shot face and being like we actually like it when people pull like a really like what the hell is that it's like sweet the potency is there that's the whole point like we were using fresh we used they used fresh peruvian ginger which is like 2.8 times stronger than any sort of like commercial chinese ginger so any other brand that talks about we've got 60 grams of ginger it's like yeah because you're using sort of like cheap ginger so yeah it's it's about having the the really good uh really good product really good ingredients and backing it but also you don't need to back it when it's good it will just do it it does itself um so that's the i think for me the three you know the three brands i've worked for and three products i've had like you know is is literally the product does the talking so that is the thing it's like getting out getting out there they're just yes there's no one specific pivotal role or like things i learned but i just think being at samplings is a key one whether it's in star out on the streets at events whatever it might be get yourself there don't just send product and hope for the best like be there talk to them if there is something that they don't like about it what might it be because again that consumer you know research and consumer feedback is the main main thing it will never nothing else will ever beat that because ultimately that's who you're trying to sell to so yeah get yourself out there would be my sort of like moment of like okay this is whether it's make or break yeah no you can't beat kind of being all these events i mean we're at taste of london from tomorrow for the week so i'm really excited it's gonna be nice to kind of get people because pact has just kind of it's been this brand that's i mean they've been around 11 years but it only feels like the last few years it's been bubbling and become kind of the pact that it is today and i feel very lucky to be kind of on this rocket ship that is just really starting to take off this year in particular yeah i think yeah it's amazing just the amount of people that still haven't heard of us so it's it's how do you get that across how do you do it exactly exactly and when you when you're in such growth like like packed or xo wherever it might be is like you think everyone knows about it you think you assume so when you said at the beginning is like introduce yourself what is xo for people that don't know i'm like what people don't know everyone should know what it is but naturally of course like there's gonna be so many people that don't know what it is um and it's about being and being at those places and yeah packed and the frozen sort of like frozen uh food like sector is growing massively so it's a great time for you to be involved and i know you shared some news from before this and it's like things are happening and it's great and it's exciting it's like okay we're on it we're on like a roll here it's like let's keep it going because yeah if you don't if you take your foot off the gas it can easily stop and either like the category you can decline or another brand takes over and ultimately you want you know every brand to be working like Like, you know, you want a full of freezer in like, you know, and I know you've done a lot of posts about this.

35:57Like freezers are the last thing at the store. They're a back of store. The very last thing people go to. People, I know I'm guilty of it. I walk down and probably don't pay half as much attention to it. You're going for your Northern Block or your pizza. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I shouldn't say, I should say I always look out. But to be fair, like, I mean, I remember when we were in Northern Block, when we got stocked in Waitrose and I remember thinking, sweet, well, everyone's going to know about that now. Everyone's going to know Northern Block because we're in Waitrose. actually you've got the waitrose shopper and then you go down and stand on the frozen island waitrose or any other major retailer and it's just tons of ice cream there's tons of like fruit lollies and creams and take like it's crazy like there's a whole like two rows and i was like damn like there's so much noise here and so you can see why people then were just like we'll go past it so it's about like how do you stand out and you know packs do an amazing job in terms of the marketing also the packaging like it's fun it's vibrant you know much to what we've got here like you have to do those like key almost seems basic right but it's so easy to get wrong those key key touch points to the brand and the main touch point is the packaging itself so yeah that's that's a major major uh major signifiers as to you know getting those sales and sort of like getting yourself brand awareness right like do you remember this brand in this bright bold colorful packaging or do you remember this brand in like the simple monochrome browns and whatever it might be it's like well no i remember this one like whether you remember what it was or what it is that's the one that still sticks out so yeah yeah and even like the way you guys merchandise like when i had my lovely box of send out of drinks and smash through them in a couple of days there's the socks in there the box itself was gorgeous the language like everything you're doing from like a brand perspective is super nice now i want to flip that and talk about across your years in the working world when things have gone wrong so any sampling events anything that you've kind of gone oh yeah that that was definitely a tough day um i think we've had i mean outdoor events are always a tricky one whether weather dependent um i think annoyingly it's when things are out of your hands when it's like if it is an event and it's operations from the third party that you're using to get things delivered and it's just not been delivered you know we actually had that at london coffee festival so like it looks so good from the you know from the front and be like you know oh my god everything's spot on but actually we had a misdeliver it when it did turn up we couldn't get through to the front and it actually we had to like and i've got a picture of it i don't know if i should send you but a picture of unloading it off the back of a van onto the streets from the streets handballing it into the event so that we can have this like smooth event but actually this nightmare was happening you know just a matter of half an hour ago so yeah it's crazy and things like that are happening all the time i think what's really good is like now there's like in the rise of social media is like brands are documenting that because it's not all plain sailing i think that's the key thing because the barriers are low to to to start starting a brand that you just think sweet it's just going to do this listen look like you know the shots industry has become like 100 million pound inch so i'm just going to make a shop company and become a millionaire it just doesn't work like that it's like all these things are going to go they are going to go wrong it will go wrong even when you take every single step to put it to make it right something something can go wrong so always have a contingency plan um would be would be my would be my top tip um especially if physical products arriving somewhere but uh But then again, that happened and the team mucked in and we had six, seven, eight of us all running around.

39:13We did whatever it took to get it done and we got it done. So that was a thing that just happened a matter of weeks ago. And on the surface, it was like, I mentioned all these LinkedIn comments and posts and people were messaging me and being like, it looks so good. And I'm like, you have no idea. So yeah, things are always going to go wrong. and I definitely think yeah if it's if it's to do with like moving product have contingency and yeah weather dependent stuff I remember setting up when we dipped our toes back into the festival circuit emoji and we did camp festival and everyone was like why you know why ginger shots at a festival why would you do that I was like and why that festival don't you want to be like a young audience well actually yeah the family market was was key because like you got these like young parents that are taking their like kids to this festival and they want to get on the beers then they got a banging hangover then they got to deal with their screaming kid in the morning the first thing they actually want is a little ginger shot and boost and give them the boost of the day so it's perfect for us but um yeah again when that when we were setting that up and again setting that up myself and it was like absolutely pissing it down with rain and it's like what the hell am i doing like everything was getting soaked the wood the cardboard was getting drenched and the shots were dropping everywhere trying to restack them up in the free in the fridge behind like it's crazy and again you gotta then you gotta then deliver on this like you know crystal clean like great like you know linkedin worthy post of a other of a show but actually again it's everything in the background so i think being super uh having a team that can that can turn things around and and be quite solution like it's classic is it like come with me with solutions not problems um and i think like the higher up you know higher up you go in your career is like you've got your job is to deal with problems like you're you know you've got you've got a team or you've got other third pies agencies partnerships whoever you're working with it's usually more often than not it's problems so it's like it's bad it's like how do you deal with that so yeah i would just say anything that's happening outdoors and anything that's happening with shifting around product be beast be have a plan b and a lot of confidence for taste of london yeah i know yeah i'm almost like projecting i know i think i mean mate the weather looks cracking for it so yeah we're gonna have the opposite we're gonna be dehydrating and coming to us for their nice fresh fruit and yogurt and ice exactly right come along exactly but then again but this is it right and this is like serendipitous and a bit of like what i said earlier it's like things happen at the right time sometimes sometimes the wrong things happen at the right time or the wrong things happen at the wrong time but sometimes right things happen at the right time and like hopefully for you and you guys like it's going to be an amazing show you know the weather's out people want like to be refreshed hydrated in the most healthiest way um so you can lean into that and that'd be like sweet that's when you know if it was slightly dark and gloomy uh or even just like you know a bit of cloud cover people are going to go out elsewhere and it could be a completely a different festival a different show so yeah you've got to lean into what what's happening fingers crossed for you mate yeah but it looks cracking it literally looks like 30 degree weather it's annoying i can't get to it this year because i'm going to be in um doing some scouting around uh in amsterdam over the next few days in fact i've got to catch the flight after this but uh busy busy we'll rattle through because i'm aware of time but um something i definitely wanted to touch on was step-by-steppers and um what that kind of has has done for you because you've got all this energy you're super positive obviously this was a very tough period of time and if you're yeah open to share and i'd love to kind of bring a light to it because i think it's absolutely phenomenal what what you've done yeah of course mate and thanks for and thanks for bringing up and i know you also asked me you know before we before we started this if it's okay and i really appreciate that and i was like of course it's okay that's the whole thing i want to talk about it yeah i mean step by steppers is a grief sort of like run club i lost my dad two years ago sadly to cancer and so he had a year journey of of being diagnosed with cancer he had a tumor in his bowel and it just like it just it went it went from zero to 100 really real quick but i was very very fortunate i got to spend you know spend that last whole year with him a lot of people a lot of people aren't as fortunate as that and i know how tough it is now more than ever after creating a sort of like online physical community as well as online community about grief and you know opening up about it and again like sort of being an advocate and a voice voice for the for it because you know naturally and stereotypically people don't talk about grief people like naturally always just say i'm sorry for your loss or i'm sorry i heard about that uh and then don't know what to say and they put their head down and the tone goes lower and it's like all right then let's think about something else to talk about was actually i'm like look i'm gonna loud and proud talk about my dad i could talk about him for years and years and years without even breathing i literally could just like honestly talk about grief and like the impact that it's had um you know and shifted my mindset and probably why a lot of like the conversation we've just had in this in this poddy you know probably resonates um and and yeah for me so step by step as I created I created this run club I'm not a runner at heart um I picked up running when um when my dad was was diagnosed as just a sort of like a bit of a release I was never a runner before that the only running I did was sort of on the football pitch I'm usually going in the wrong way um and yeah so I started running it you know it was a good mental mental health release for me it was my time it was my moment and then when when dad passed i was like i was like i want to talk about grief i was like it's not like i don't want to be another person that's just like oh that's that guy that's lost his dad or whatever it might be so i need to i want to openly talk about it and my friend was just like i was like how do i do this like i want to create something that's obviously my background of marketing and brand is like what do i want to create something and put something out there tangibly so she was like well don't reinvent the wheel like what what helps you and i was like well running's helped and she's like well just just just get some people to come on to run with you and then but this happened in like the world of like you know of run club booms over the past couple years especially in london um so it wasn't about being like competing with like you know the fanciest and like the highest elite elite like run club it was about bringing people together that get it that understand it that don't feel like they're not allowed to talk about it or just shouldn't talk about it especially in the workplaces right because again stereotypically you get like a week's leave and like right okay go plan this funeral go do that and come back to work as if nothing's ever happened i remember that happened with my granddad but my dad last his dad and he had a week off and then it was all like but i just don't talk about it and with me like mojo gave me the time off to spend that final month with my dad they gave me two months off afterwards and i couldn't be more thankful like i wouldn't be able to do what i am doing now and what i did create without without you know the team behind me there that gave me that space and that's something i want to inject into as many companies as possible is like give people that their time that they deserve and whether that's grieving or whether that's having a baby which you are like that you know you'll get that you've that's happening with you and yeah so yeah step by step it was like it was it is my baby and I love that it brings people together and and helps and sometimes like you get loads of people turn up to run and sometimes it's one and that can be a bit like heartbreaking like oh god only one person turned up actually when that happens you have this like huge connection you have the best conversations and ultimately if it if one person walks away or runs away from from that from whether it's an inline online or whether it's in-person meet up and when it's helped one person that's it that's it for me of course i want to help hundreds of course i want to help thousands and that's complete ultimate goal but those hundreds of thousands are made up of of one person so yeah um it's my baby and i know and it's tricky managing that and building a community building this community with with with uh you know as my as my job and then building a community outside of that but again within fmcg i've you know i've done some great collabs and partnerships with with brands and um and it's great having that sort of crossover but yeah i'll always be i'll always talk about grief so openly and i hope that other people can from just you know and they're allowed to from hearing either hearing this or seeing something online because yeah if you bottle it up it's only going to get worse so yeah massively talk about mental i'm i think you are too but mental like a mental health first aid trained and mental health is a big big thing for me prior to all this anyway like you know i'm energetic and passionate but that comes with that comes like you know the stress and the and you know being tired and actually like what the hell's the point and stuff so yeah mental health for me is massive and there's been a big shift in that in fmcg as a whole as well and you know lucky saint i've done a really big good job of that um you know in terms of like all that you know the staff and like even that who they partner with really pushing it out there like mental health is like it's serious business and yeah there's been a big shift in that over the past few years and it's great to see that come into sort of my workspace as well.

47:23So, yeah, it's very unique. It's very special. And obviously it's sort of like step-by-step was born out of a sad situation, but it was always about turning the pain into positivity. And for me, it needed to look reliable as well. So, like, the branding for it, like, everything I did, I needed it to be spot on because I wanted it to look trustworthy because if it was just like a picture of me or whatever it might be, and maybe it would have been okay, but I wanted it to look like people could trust it. And I think that's a big thing. I've probably learned that from my time in marketing. like you know trust is number one yeah people you need that trust and how could i that trust didn't exist in the first place i had to make sure it looked good enough that it was like people trusted it and it wasn't like a sketchy sketchy meet up and for going for a run or whatever so yeah it's um and i don't know where it'll take me or it will go in the future of course i want to like take it all across the uk and you know it'd be great to have these ambassadors in each each major city and county or whatever it might be and sort of like happening without me even needing to be there and sort of like having you know ambassadors and advocates across you know across the world and linking up with like worldwide global uh sports brands would be would be an absolute dream so if nike adidas if you're listening to this then uh then hit me up um also local local sports companies you can hit me up too um but yeah so thanks for asking about that mate i um yeah it's it's really nice because it means it means a lot to me now obviously i'm really sorry for for your loss but i love how you've you've taken that and turned it into something positive it's the same with like lewis and coroge who was on and yeah i mean he's now got a functional drinks website called funk so you you two you've already got something to bond over and talk about in a in a different way that actually is still really uplifting and positive because you're celebrating them and you're you're kind of bringing people together to go through it and it shouldn't be taboo it should be something talked about and i think like doing it in a way where you are kind of reducing that barrier i think it's it's really on yeah so i really hope it does grow and and helps thousands and thousands of people across the nation um yeah i appreciate that i'd love to to talk about this and and so much more uh but i know we're short on time now so final final few questions uh this is the music one i know you're a man who loves music so what is your what is your song that represents your your work in life i actually missed this question until literally just before i logged on and i saw it and then instantly i thought of uh daniel beddingfield i to get through this because it's just like you have literally you just got to get through it and it's also an absolute wobbler um but yeah i think it sums up whether it's fmcg whether it's career whether it's at home personal whether you just got to get through it haven't you and do what you need to do to get to get through it and that's that that's the that was the old point of step by step is and what the title suggests is like it's through step by step like you can only do everything by you know taking that first step and i think i can't remember the book's called it's like about the fox the kid in the in the mall or something and it's like you know it's literally about like you know you don't know unless you unless you take that step there and it's like you just have to keep moving forward so it's step by step so yeah linking it back to that but yeah gotta get through this standard bedding field absolute song of my uh childhood um yeah gotta get gotta get through this probably can we put that as a little backing track at the beginning absolutely yeah i've got playlists i've got all these eclectic songs on spot yeah i bet it's a A very wild selection.

50:31But yeah, that's another absolute banger on there. So yeah, I'm really, really grateful for everything you've shared. I've loved this. We're well overdue in-person catch-up because it's always at a trade show in a fleeting five-minute pass. But for anyone who wants to... We can be that guy. We can be that guy having the beer, mate, and just sitting there enjoying the moment. Just sitting there opposite each other, just like, yeah. Yeah, we don't even have to talk. I should just sit there, though, yeah. But for anyone who wants to get hold of you or find out more about XXO Soda, like where's the best place for all that?

50:58Yeah, I mean, we're trying to grow our TikTok community on Exo. So yeah, get over to TikTok on there. But of course, myself as my name, Shane Stewart on LinkedIn. Step by Steppers is the Instagram handle for that as well. So there's multiple avenues there to go down. But yeah, any sort of like following or also just a place, you know, if anyone that is listening to this that is affected by grief or just wants to learn more about brand, like I absolutely love like talking about, well, I just love talking as you know. So yeah, anybody who wants to shoot me a message at any point, please do. Or even if it's to talk about football, because I'll lead United or whatever.

51:34So we can do that. Brilliant. Yeah, I'll put all these links in the show notes. But I've absolutely loved this. You're amazing and keep doing everything you're doing. Because yeah, I love the energy you bring to the sector and the industry. Thanks, mate. I very much hope we cross paths soon. So thank you so much. We will. We will. Nice, mate. Really appreciate it and big up for what you're doing here. As I say, you're creating a platform and a forum for people to learn and understand what the ins and outs of StartUp and FMCG is. So, yeah, hats off to you as well, mate. Thank you so much. Yeah, we love you, founders, but it's not always about you.

52:05We've got teams, people in the teams who can shout out. So, yeah, no, amazing. And, yeah, everyone listening, thanks so much. We will see you on the next episode. Goodbye.