#63 - Ailis Anderson - Honestly Tasty [Head of Brand & Marketing]

0:00Hello, hello, hello and welcome back to the founders. Today I'm joined by the wonderful Ailish Anderson who does brand and marketing at Honestly Tasty. Now Honestly Tasty make absolutely delicious plant-based cheeses. They are mould-ripened, they are literally the same as cheese just made with plant-based ingredients and I can vouch how tasty they are. It was great to speak to Ailish. She was the first employee after the founders which is very much a family affair and she has been there through the highs and lows, through Covid, through the rebrands, through all sorts of exciting moments into the latest phase where they have acquired La Famagerie, They released a new range of cheeses with their Camden cultured range.

0:34And it all sounds very, very exciting with Christmas just around the corner where you need to stock up. So without further ado, let's dig into the episode. Are you a founder of the next exciting food and drink brand? Are you looking to scale and grow? Well, let me introduce you to Mission Kitchen, London's home for food and drink entrepreneurs and sponsor of the Unfounders. Mission Kitchen gives you the equipment, support and community to take your business to the next level. with flexible access to commercial kitchens, expert mentorship on site and a network of hundreds of like-minded founders.

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1:22Hello and welcome back to Unfounders. Today I'm joined by the wonderful Ailish Anderson. So Ailish, can you please let everyone know where you work and how long you've been there? Hello, I'm Elish. I work at Honestly Tasty and as of more recently La Famagerie. We are two of the UK's leading artisan vegan cheese businesses. I have been there since 2020 and I do everything to do with marketing and communications. I always think about this question when you answer it and how I would answer it or anytime anyone asks me what I do. It's never quite as simple as like this is my one role it's like no no I have many roles but uh yeah you are officially an unfounder having been the the first employee after the founders so those who have never heard of Honestly Tasty first of all where have you been um but can you share the story of who are the founders what is the brand what what do you guys do what are the awards you've won like all that kind of good stuff yes so we are Honestly Tasty we launched in 2018 unofficially when our founder Mike did Veganuary for the first time.

2:25He was in the south of France whilst trying to do Veganuary which for anyone that knows the south of France knows it is a terrible place to be vegan or definitely was seven years ago might be slightly better now. They now do a vegan raclette in the like small town that they go to. So it was born out of the very classic vegan cheese is rubbish. I think everyone will agree that for the most part vegan cheese doesn't have a very good rep um and mike set about essentially to change that but he uh he was working in a bank at the time having done a spacecraft engineering degree all very logical steps towards starting a vegan cheese business and he basically set about in kind of in his kitchen experimenting with blue cheese cultures until he'd created something like genuine genuinely delicious um to his like italian flatmates what's the word like uh approval i suppose um and then from there uh he got his sister on board so beth joined as co-founder shortly after followed by um various friends and family getting stuck in um until i joined in 2020 shortly after covid covid hit to see became big focus for the business um and that is where all of my experience kind of from various other startups came to play.

3:48And after lots of conversations, like socially with Mike, that I think just turned into an inquisition on my part of, have you thought about this? Have you thought about this? Have you done this? I managed to eventually get him to say, do you want to do it? And that's how I got into Honestly Tasty. Amazing. Well, yeah, for anyone who has had Honestly Tasty cheeses, they are absolutely delicious. And as you mentioned at the start, Honestly Tasty now own La Femadry as well. So for those listening, I have also worked for La Formagerie as of a year or two ago now. And during that time, this was all happening behind the scenes.

4:21And I was seeing firsthand, like I came to the factory, saw how the cheeses were made. I think it's just, it blew my mind, like the level of quality and precision around how all these products are made. For those who are hearing this and going, vegan blue cheese, I don't get it. How does that work? Can you touch on how that looks or what that is? like what what makes Honesty Tasty's blue cheese and La Femagerie's blue cheese so good versus a lot of vegan blue cheese that you'll find in the market? Yeah so I think a lot of vegan alternatives might use something like spirulina to essentially like replicate the look of vegan cheese so you'll get the what look like blue veins whereas Honesty Tasty, La Femagerie and some other like incredible producers will use penicillin rock 40 um so i think the same question is you know what makes gorgonzola great um you can lead back and find those similarities and that it's it's the cultures um we try to treat the vegan cheese in exactly the same way that you would treat dairy cheese um so that means that our camembert have a white rind and they're hand flipped daily That means our blue cheese is inoculated with penicillin rock 40, which is a kind of, you know, a classic blue cheese mold.

5:33And I think the key essentially is in treating them, treating them like dairy, caring for them in the same way, emulating the processes as best you can so that you are combining those traditional techniques with modern ingredients and innovative methodology. Yeah, it's literally, it is blue cheese by every case and point, other than the fact that it's on a plant-based base, not a dairy base. And I think that's what I still like hands down say they're the best cheeses in the market. The blues in particular, I mean, won loads of Great Taste Awards. Christmas, obviously, around the corner. To anyone listening, we're now in November.

6:09Yeah, Christmas next month, big time. I just have flashbacks of when we were sorting all the waitress orders for La Famagerie. And it was just absolute carnage at the site. Just like, I don't know how many people worked in that place, but everyone was hands on deck trying to pack these cheeses, last minute wrapping, building the boxes, stuffing them. Hopefully it's a lot less chaotic this year. Everything's in motion, hand labelling, stickers. I definitely wouldn't advise it, like printer packaging all the way. So hopefully you fix that this year. We have. What can we look forward to this Christmas from you guys?

6:40Like, is there any special editions? Is there any bundles? Like what are we looking for? Yeah. So Christmas, it's funny. when I was thinking about Christmas earlier I thought Christmas I was like when does Christmas start for us and I realized Christmas never ends you are you're barely out of one year and you're immediately analyzing last Christmas in Q1 before planning Christmas essentially the rest of the year like you know festive photo shoots in June July will never not feel strange but yeah they do all mean that we have got four incredible if I'm allowed to say that hampers across the two ranges for honestly tasty we brought back um previous specials so there is a ched um with caramelized red onion which i think might be my favorite but you may realize i say that after every cheese but it's it's so good and that's like a firm mild cheddar with a like a red onion relish that basically has been like mixed through it um and then our smoked buddha which is just another classic.

7:42People love firm cheeses and they are traditionally trickier to make really, really good plant-based firm cheeses. But those two, I think, have got serious legs. And then for La Formagerie, we've given the new product, like MPD, a little bit more thought, given that it's our first Christmas with La Formagerie. It's our first La Formagerie Christmas in its first year that La Formagerie won't be selling other producers. So known for being a vegan cheesemonger this year for our first year everything is in-house we have a winter cranberry which won't be new so you will have packed lots of those into waitress boxes last year and then we have the camden cultured range which is a new cashew based fermented truffle original and smoked the smoked is also my favorite like it arrived the first like iteration of it arrived at my house i guess a couple of months ago and i nibbled a bit off with a spoon and then i got a bigger spoon and then i'd in the entire vlog it is so good an apricot dinner well which is a another fruity cheese christmas being fairly synonymous with fruitier numbers and that is maybe like loosely styled on honestly tasty garlic and herb in its kind of in its format and its creaminess but harder to find a comparison other than saying it's just delicious and festive and it's got these little bits of chewy cranberry and it's creamy and I think it's going to go perfect on a Christmas morning bedel yeah these all sound absolutely delicious I can't wait to try them all um I'll definitely be getting sound so yeah these these will sound great and the Camden culture did you say the cashew range I know that's something Mike was chatting about a good year or two ago he was like I wanted to do it I want to do the cashew one so I'm excited to see that come to life is this is this another sub brand does this fit under La Formagerie like how how does this fit these the Camden Cultured is La Formagerie.

9:36So we launched, these are not Christmas specials. These are just new for La Formagerie. As part of the acquisition, we wanted to put something new and exciting into the range as like testament to what La Formagerie stands for. And I suppose as a kind of, you know, here is our promise to continue doing all the incredible stuff that they do. So yeah, so they are all available now. I actually sent you some for your birthday, which were meant to arrive on Friday but will arrive tomorrow amazing so you can see what you think um so yeah they go into I don't know they should be launching in some fairly well-known wholesalers early next year we're in like the last you know the last stages of setup and where they go on to from there we'll see amazing so vegan cheese like how how did you get into this this space are you vegan yourself were you fed up of vegan cheese tasting terrible like how did you go you know what like I believe in this like this is where I want to I want to back mic and I want to help here like how did you get involved in this side so I think definitely rooted just in my startup background um my one of my two truths and a lie when they ever come up is that I have never worked a five-day work week I've only ever known startups so when COVID came around I was like yeah I know this is great the four-day work week not COVID um yeah I've always loved and thrived in like a small small business setting like the scrappiness the responsibility the kind of ever changing work day um and so when I met Mike I had already been working at well I worked at a company called Mojave's that was my first job and they are a luxury slipper so a far cry from vegan cheese but working there just it taught me so much I didn't really realize how much it taught me until I was having these conversations with Mike where he was talking about setting up a business and I was asking questions I didn't even well I mean I didn't know the answer to but I know that they were questions you were meant to be answering about you know have you thought of this how are you setting up your CRM like you know you're launching in three months you need to set up your Instagram now where's your email marketing have you started this have you started that and I must have overwhelmed him to the point that he suggested that I do it and so yeah start up some food.

11:57Also, you know, when I was younger, when I was really young, I wanted to be a chef or a baker. When I was a bit older, I wanted to work for DEFRA or I had a kind of geography, English overlap. I loved food studies in geography and I really wanted to get into that. Then I found myself at Mojave's and I loved startups. And I can't imagine the Venn diagram that has Mojave's on one side and DEFRA on the other. Has much in between. I could be wrong. I'm sure I am wrong. But once I got into that world, I loved it. And once I then found an opportunity where I could bring in food into that world, everything, I guess, clicked into place.

12:32Amazing. So, yeah, I'd love to touch through the full journey. So from Harby's, where did you go next? What was your other stages? Because obviously you said you've done some DTC and helping Mike with that side when COVID hit. So from I can see you've got Duke and Dexter and Good Club. What was the name of that brand? Because I remember that was that the refillables? yeah dizzy they turned into a brand called dizzy yeah dizzy that's it um that was after i'd left um so my the first job i had which isn't you don't really see in linkedin but is was um nannying and i nannied throughout uni um and i do always think it's relevant because i i mean it got me my first job when my first boss at mojave's you know was interviewing me and saying well you know you've done this how's that going to translate to to what we're asking you to do and the i think i I learned so much from working with children and working with parents that I think really, really carried through into a small, scrappy startup.

13:32Not only can you not swear when you really want to, lesson one. There was just so much about, you know, meeting people's needs, managing people's expectations, two days being the same. a real I think like way of working that I really really enjoyed alongside a what could be at times like mundane routine I suppose and at the time Mojabes were really looking for someone to do what they described as maybe the more mundane tasks which were all just like music to my ears anything that was like put processes in place make routines happen do this I was like I love that stuff if I can do the same thing a hundred times over as long as I'm in the right mood that's music to my ears so I went from nannying to Mojabies I did the customer support support and experience at Mojabies when Mojabies was then being sold it was like a very natural time for a lot of us to jump ship and in some ways it was always a blessing that kind of it left me because I don't I don't know how I would have ever left it because I loved it um and I learned so much from being there.

14:37Duke and Dexter felt like a natural next step. My advice actually now to a lot of people, you know, like younger family members or friends that are going from their first job to their second, it's such a like big, scary change when to go from like, you know, all you've ever known. And for me, I knew that I didn't want to work in footwear anymore. Having been at Mojave's and seeing people that were like, you know, truly passionate about footwear. What I did and what my advice would be would be to like make one change so for me that was just like stay in footwear but change you know change my surroundings change my job I went into more like customer experience I suppose and customer support and I think that was a good segue to go into marketing so where am I in my timeline do you can text it uh good club and then good club I don't know how I learned about good club because they've always been like they were a small brand and I don't know why I saw them but I immediately loved what they were doing and it's one of those feels like quite a like LinkedIn post story of how I got the job at Good Club because it was adding their founder on LinkedIn and just saying oh my god please can I work with you this sounds so good this sounds so much fun I didn't like I kind of I didn't know that this is where I wanted to be but yes this is how I work in food without having to wake up at 4am to make cinnamon buns which is where I was otherwise heading and yeah Good Club really like taught me that I wanted to be in food and then when Mike when I met Mike and Mike started talking about Honestly Tasty and everything I suppose just like fell into place I realized that I didn't have to wake up and open a cafe to work in food at 5am and I didn't have to work in a restaurant until 2am and yeah it allowed me to kind of keep the startup aspects of the previous roles that I'd really enjoyed.

16:25And, and I mean, Mike is convincing, but his points, uh, you know, he, he talks so passionately about vegan cheese and veganism that you're just, it's hard not to be like one over. Um, and so much of it resonated. This is a really, really long answer. No, it's good. I like it. yeah I mean I think it all goes back to like my vegetarian origin story and probably says a lot about me as a person that I was three or four years old in a farm and my I'd I think we'd seen lots of cows and we'd seen lots of pigs and I think for a child there's there isn't much you know to link a cow to beef or a pork a pig to a pork a pig to a sausage or a pig to pork and I quite happily tootled around the farm looking at these animals and when I saw chickens I said to my mum what are they like what's a chicken like I've seen the word chicken before and she answered very honestly maybe to her future detriment little did she know how many lentils she'd be cooking from then on um but I very adamantly was like well that's mental like I'm not eating that again and there started the journey of a very I guess strong-willed and passionate vegetarian I love that no that's great um a few things on that obviously i know mike i've known him for a few years before obviously working alongside and seeing all of that world um obviously i think the products speak for themselves as well i remember the first time trying both the honestly tasty and laffle marjorie cheese and just be like wow why can't all vegan cheese be this good and i think it's one of those things when you see the process in place like actually seeing the factory firsthand and how it is just a full-on cheese operation like everything's just so well calculated and so technological like i was i have no idea what's going on but i can see the end product and there's a lot of love and care and attention that goes on every phase and then as you said when you speak to someone like mark or robert and the team who are equally as passionate about not just kind of having that quality but what they're doing and how they're trying to compete with the dairy blue cheeses and all of this all the other great products you guys do i think that's definitely very telling from a okay i can get behind this and promote this and obviously during your time as well honestly taste had quite a big rebrand so what was your involvement in that process was that something that you led and and got involved in how did that come about because the way the brand kind of looks and feels now is brilliant and a far cry from where it first started as well yeah the rebrand was so much fun they are i mean yeah they are just the most fun if you can ever join a company at the beginning of a rebrand there is so much to do we did it it was really it was completely collaborative it was all of us i guess like me mike and beth mostly pitching in um with a bunch of different incredible like external resources we worked with an agency that guided us so lovely lovely guy called mark um and that we basically kind of spent a lot of time learning about who we were and where we got to and then looking at you know who we were and where we wanted to be we did lots of those fun exercises of you know if you were a if your brand were a person what would they look like what would they dress like what would they you know what would they what would they what brands would they buy and then kind of projecting onto you know what do you want that to look like i'd love to do it all again yeah i've seen some really cool new brew brands actually in the past month or so i don't know if you have you seen palace cultures recently no i actually haven't seen that just onto their instagram like dying to know more about it so they've just like published some new packaging and it's like it's super different to their like what I consider the super distinct like initiative design um and I'm just like every day looking on LinkedIn or somewhere I need to see I need an interview I need to see like what led them to it and that is really different yeah having a quick nosy now but I like yeah I just I want to know I think also you know just like staying fresh and relevant in the world I want to know like what have they spotted or what have they identified that maybe we should be looking at to compete for shelf space um we always i think the big i guess motivator for the initial rebrand was shelf presence so it's when we were starting to look at like more physical space covid was obviously like brilliant for d2c brands and we saw so much like fast growth kind of coming out of that and that petering off and becoming you know stabilizing i suppose ultimately it's not it's not standard buying behavior to buy cheese in bulk online like you need to be in baskets and to be in baskets you need to be in supermarkets and to be in supermarkets you need to look great on shelf so yeah it was we spent a lot of time in cold cheese aisles and we still spend quite a lot of time in cold cheese aisles actually people will often walk you know there'll be three of us just kind of standing around staring trying to work out how do we stand out without kind of without looking you want to look like cheese but you don't want to look too much like cheese and you want to fit in on the shelf but you also want to stand out on the shelf so yeah I mean we've rebranded but it also feels like a iterative process and now we have La Femagerie that really changes it really changes I guess the way we look at things and how we then have to be really conscious of what was there was a word that you used for in a recent podcast for two brands in the same space i think used it or partners in mission yeah i love that it's so much nicer than rivals yeah it was a it was a hero term uh very much like their mentality and view of the plant based sector is like look we're all partners we're all fighting for this meat-free space if we're if one brand is helping consumers have that moment when they're at purchase going i'm going to buy something that's not from an animal and they're happy to celebrate everyone in the space obviously you want it to be your brand because you believe it's the best but ultimately if other brands are doing a good example and it's fantastic the issue comes when there's brands that aren't so good that have that space and then they give people that poor first experience of say a vegan chicken or a vegan sausage and they're like well that's disgusting i'm never going to buy that again and then you've lost the customer and i think that was always the battle with vegan cheese is the cheaper entry-level cheeses are often terrible they're often i mean yeah they're they're kind of a far stretch from what a cheese is and which is another reason why i think yes they're more expensive the likes of honestly tasty or la formagerie um i mean dairy is going to be increasing costs because there's no way it can sustain as cheap as it is but i think the reason for that is the craft the quality the like the number of ingredients the quality of the ingredients all these things are why the products are so good and then the taste speaks for itself like if you like a blue cheese and you haven't tried any of the plant-based ones definitely give these two a try like for sure yeah i'd say they're also in some ways just comparative to the like you know really really good dairy cheese um so yeah we can't compete with like super cheap supermarket alternatives um but actually i don't think our pricing would look out of place like a deli counter um and it's delicious dairy free cruelty free we have absolutely no problems getting into the UK at the moment unlike lots of brie and camembert at the moment um so if you're looking for a brie this Christmas you know you know where to find us yeah love that and it is absolutely delicious I think it's one of my favorites on on the whole selection I think the brie is like absolutely incredible um and on that as well you guys are honestly tasty do a lot of collabs and a lot of amazing food service working with different restaurants and businesses I mean you're in some pies talk about some of those some of your favorite collaborations or places where people can find it aside from retail but obviously from a retail perspective where can people find the cheeses if they're going okay i'm convinced i'll give it a go like where where can i buy it uh for la famagery waitrose is our i'd say biggest uh stockist and for honestly tasty the most kind of national presence is a cardo um and then outside of that we try super hard to keep our stockist lists up to date so we you know you can get us through clf suma vegan wholesaler curd and cure brocliffs loads of wholesalers which then obviously as you may also experience you lose that like end availability um and it's it can be tricky to keep on top of where exactly the cheese is this week or this month but what i always say to that is you should be in your local and independent store your local independent store is probably working with a wholesaler that we know so the advantage of of those like you know more intimate relationships is that you can go into your shop and say i'd like to try this um and the chances are that your shop owner um or whoever's buying for that store will be able to get in contact with us or with one of the wholesalers um and get us on shelf yeah i think access is always one of the biggest kind of barriers for people but i think if you have your local store like it's it's sad sign of the times when a lot of my local ones in Portsmouth and Southampton are all disappearing now.

25:29They're all starting to close their doors. So those are still around. Make sure you're going out and supporting them. I know Bold Green are great advocates for this, having like certain SKUs or certain offers or things just for their independence, which I love. But definitely like go and support these people because often it's like, if they put a product on that shelf, they're more likely to know the team and the founders and the people behind those products. So I always love when there's a new deli, where there's a new shop, I'm going in, I'm exploring everything, being like, oh, that's a nice brand.

25:55haven't seen this before I haven't seen that so yeah absolutely agree they can tell you so much as well you know they know so much and actually they tell us so much you know when you get the opportunity to speak to a like a small store owner um they're speaking to our customers whereas you know if you're just at like a self-checkout in a supermarket there's no one getting that immediate feedback um and yeah I love I mean I love so much of what Bold Bean do I don't think there's anything I don't love about Bold Bean Company and my recycling bin right now would be testament to that but they yeah we we do try to emulate that um giving small giving the smaller stores things that the larger stores don't have so the camden cultured range the new camden cultured range for laff and marjorie will hopefully be in a few smaller stores and same with some of the honestly tasty christmas specials the best place to find that out will be our email marketing list and our social media as it gets closer to christmas amazing and then from a restaurant perspective i know you've done things with like honest burger in the past is it magpie you've got the blue cheese pie yeah still going was that special magpie are still going magpie are delicious pies delicious happen to be vegan pies yeah honest burger so honest burger is a christmas special which i think i can safely say i mean i can safely say but i think i can publicly say we'll be back for Christmas we are in where are we in we're on so many menus now that is genuinely and wonderfully hard to keep track of and they also change I find that they change so frequently it's also hard to keep track of which one's actually still live that's always the battle as well it's like oh great it's live oh it's a one month special or it's a six month special yeah yeah basically check check the socials check the website um and go and find it yeah I'll do a LinkedIn post on it next week so yeah the christmas roundup find it all um and in the other side of things so obviously throughout all this i can think of a time when it was tough actually packing all these boxes but yeah what have been some of the the tough days at the office in any of your roles or anywhere you've been that come to mind when you're like okay that was really tough both of the top ones that come to mind i feel kind of bad because neither of them were our fault it's always i mean it's supplier issues or were you in DTC for Christmas I think was it 2022 when Royal Mail went on strike?

28:19I feel like you'd know I think anyone out there will be like shaking their shaking their heads or nodding their heads or just in despair so Royal Mail went on strike and I remember hearing that and thinking well that's okay we don't use Royal Mail so that's fine thank goodness we use DPD and then within a few days getting an email from DPD saying like hello blank space customer we are capping your daily volume at like pennies basically for the days in the lead up to Christmas so the week before Christmas we were basically told DPD wouldn't send out any of our parcels like I still I still panic thinking about it um I it's it's just me a lot of the time speaking to customers emailing customers um people can be very emotionally charged at christmas and and i just remember thinking how am i going to tell this many people that they're not going to get their cheese and then elsewhere in the business it was like what are we going to do with all this this cheese we can't we have to go somewhere um and what ensued was our incredible team i am i work remotely so i I was, I mean, not that I wasn't busy emailing customers around the clock, but I wasn't there physically.

29:32The rest of the team were literally packing boxes around the clock to get as much of that week's worth of dispatch sent out in one day. So the last day before they put the cap on. And then what turned into the strangest hunt of who knows someone that can just piggyback our volume onto someone or something a huge shout out to DHL that week um and somebody that worked in our building that had an account with someone I can't even remember the chain but actually people were lovely that's one of the biggest lessons that I learned the more you communicate the nicer people will be because the more people understand the more empathy they're going to have for a situation I think and internally we learned so much about working together about problem solving thinking on our feet and also putting in like you know backup so now we go into every Christmas with two to three couriers available we spread our load across them so that we always have that like extra capacity we also work with a really great like EPL team that have all that additional bandwidth but every year I still am like please don't have it again yeah no it's like I think I was I was still at Hura at that time and I remember yeah that that period where it was like oh yeah no one can do any DTC this is gonna be fun so yeah fingers crossed none of that this year it doesn't seem like anything's on the cards yeah but not that we haven't had our whole rife of everything else going on in the world to try and affect everything we're doing yeah exactly yeah no we we kind of start every week with okay we're a week closer to Christmas how's everybody I think we're okay but I mean there's only so much you can I feel like you know you can prepare so much and actually it's almost just being prepared for something to go wrong so that you're there able to fix it and you know how to fix it with like being I guess cool and calm and collected so if something goes wrong with the cheese or with anything and I have to communicate to customers it's just being able to like step back and go okay like don't flap but you can do this here's a process one two three four five stay measured stay stay cool stay controlled yeah love that um this is the the music question so hopefully you'll have that in the bank being a regular listener so uh what is your go-to song when i say what's a song that represents your your working experience so my song i had so many songs and you kind of jump around it's i'm with you by Avril Lavigne.

32:00Nice. Classic for so many reasons and if I was to give you a podcast answer it would be you know it has the perfect mix of vulnerability and determination she's feeling really lost but she's pushing forward through it which is like startup 101 but the actual answer is it's a call back to really early in my career me and my like you know one of my best mates who I was fortunate enough to work with for much of my early career I've got this very distinct memory of us preparing for a photo shoot and when you're early on in your career photo shoots are one of those things that sound really fun and really glamorous and as soon as you're working on them you're like this is not fun or glamorous and I think it was maybe half 10 at night and we were sitting in the office wet wiping soles of slippers so that they were all clean for the photo shoot the next day and I just yeah I think it always says so much about working in startups and expectation and reality and but I mean also just having a lot of fun you know we were belting out the lyrics until one of our colleagues messaged us saying do you know you're on the work Spotify so yeah that's my that's my song and what a banger as well great song such a good song but no this has been brilliant um as we said I'm sure you've got plenty of work to be cracking on with uh in this lead up to Christmas I'm excited to see all the try the new Camden cultured range.

33:21Yeah, try the Christmas boards. They all sound absolutely delicious. And it's a very exciting cheese period of the year. Straight into the Ganyu as well. So it's two like massive months back to back, which is always fun from a plant based brand perspective. Yeah, I'm wishing you all the best from a production and fulfillment point of view. Having experienced it in a very wild way last year, I think it was very, very intense. Yeah, yes. Thank you. It's crazy. I always think maybe one year I won't work in a company where Christmas and Veganuary or Christmas and January aren't the kind of be all and end all.

33:54But I imagine I may never. Or you just discover that something else is, you know, there's always that peak. But I guess it would be like if that peak wasn't also Christmas. Yeah, back to back peaks. Yeah. But no, I've loved this. I think it's a very exciting time in space. I think there's still so much to do in the plant-based cheese space just to convince consumers that it's great. And there is all these delicious options out there. But if anyone's going to do it, I think it's going to be you guys. So keep up the great work. And thanks for sharing with us. Thank you. Thank you for having me. And to everyone else listening, thank you so much.

34:29We will see you on the next episode. Bye.