#85 - Charlie Pugh Cordero - Foreva Farmers [Growth Lead]

0:00Charlie Pugh Cordero:Hello, hello, hello. Welcome back to my founders. Today, I'm joined by the brilliant Charlie Pugh Cordero, who is the growth lead at Forever Farmers. They are growing the world's most sustainable mixers brand based in the UK using renewable energy, a fully carbon neutral certified. They are doing so many things in the sustainability space when it comes to mixers. They have this incredible aluminium packaging. And I really liked getting to know Charlie. It was actually founder Charlie who messaged me and said, you need to speak to this guy. He sold me a stand for Good Food Show and I wanted him to work for me, so that's exactly what he did.

0:30Charlie Pugh Cordero:It was really nice to dig into Charlie's background, why he's passionate about sustainability, working with challenger brands. I think what they're doing as a brand is absolutely brilliant, and I really like Charlie's energy and attitude. I think he's going to do absolutely amazing in this industry. So without further ado, let's crack on with the episode. We all know that brand is important, right? But what if I told you it can impact growth and customer acquisition costs by up to 50 %? event against ordinary are a brand agency who help founders marketing departments scaling teams ensure their brand is the most powerful tool for growth from brand strategy tone of voice and visual identity to helping you get retail ready with ongoing brand growth retainers they really are the full circle agency for growing your brand being the team are absolutely fantastic just imagine what they could do for your brand so what are you waiting for see how they can be your grand growth partners at against ordinary.com

1:29Charlie Pugh Cordero:hello and welcome back to young founders today i'm joined by the brilliant charlie pucadero so charlie can you let everyone know where you work and what your role is yes hi i'm charlie i am the growth lead for forever farmers joined last july amazing so for those who've never heard of forever farmers what is it what do you guys do how did it start all those good things yeah so we are a carbon neutral drinks brand based in hereford shell on a regenerative family farm predominantly at the moment we're making mostly mixers uh and softs with some more softs on the way being developed as well which is really exciting and yeah the whole the whole company is based around giving drinks a clean foundation you know that we think they'd sort of deserve amazing so um i know like your tagline is growing the world world's most sustainable mixers brand so what is it about your practice the way it's packaged what does it make forever farmer special yeah so yeah it's pretty much from the bottom to the top um so ingredients are sourced as locally as possible you know some coming straight from the farm so we're championing provenance as well as renewable energy which is a massive part of our own production so production of our drinks takes place on the farm in herefordshire using 100 green energy that's generated on the farm which quite a lot actually gets given back to the grid as well so we're very lucky that we are able to sort of use that and obviously very proud of it as well asides from closed loop production and local sourcing as well we have industry first aluminium bottles which came into the company sort of similarish time to when i did as well yeah you know aluminium is infinitely recyclable it weighs much less it will get colder quicker it'll stay colder for longer as well so those are the sort of main three pillars of what make us the world's most sustainable mixers brand love that and for you like how did you come across the brand because i actually had a message from the founder charlie um and he was like you need to speak to charlie he listens to the podcast and it's like he joined last summer after meeting him at good food where he sold you a stand tell us tell us about that story like how did you get into the brand was you you did that and you were like oh i like it or was it they were like oh i like the way you sell come and work for us Yeah, I mean, sort of, to be honest.

3:41My first sort of interaction with Forever Farmers and Charlie was very organic. I was at a speciality show, which was their actual launch, which I didn't actually know at the time because they looked like such a sort of already established kind of brand where they were and the branding that they had. so I was working for the good food shows at the time and we were at the trade show obviously doing a bit of a sneak in finding out the new challenger brands and people to bring over to our consumer shows and I met Charlie and from a farmers as we were leaving the trade show I've always really been into tonic water even as a kid because I grew up in a household that didn't really have fizzy drinks and the only ones we would would be tonic waters so I sort of got like you know attracted to the stand and then me and Charlie got talking and I found out about all the you know sustainability around it and the locality of the brand and then yeah I got I managed to get him on a few good food shows where we worked together quite well and yeah just seemed to sort of build up a very natural you know relationship obviously at the time it was me as the salesperson and Charlie as the founder and then I just remember sort of later down the line always telling myself that once this company was in a place where it was growing and looking for hires I would always put myself forwards for it just that of love for it to be honest the story and everything that came along with it and uh yeah managed to to get the job and here we are love that yeah no I think it's

5:03Charlie Pugh Cordero:always nice when you kind of even know a product or see branding up I could see myself working there yeah it comes to fruition so I think that like that tonic as a child thing is amazing like what a talent event i know i normally say to people oh i bet you didn't imagine yourself working there but i'm like if that was your only soft drink at the time then i'm sure you're like yeah i could work for a tonic brand growing up stealing them from the stealing from the fridge as a child yeah no absolutely and for me it was always always really wanted to work in sustainability but obviously commercially just you know um working sustainability as a consultant or something like that i wanted to be working for an actual brand that endorsed that or had that at heart so yeah I remember when seeing that I was obviously really attracted to the brand to bring it to the shows that I was working on at the time.

5:45Cause I saw, you know, a great sort of opportunity there to get them on, you know, on some big shows. And then, yeah, just sort of without realizing sort of personally, you know, becoming more aligned with the brand. So yeah, that was good. It was, it was a funny, it was a funny start to our relationship to say the least, but now, now we're working together in a completely different way.

6:07Charlie Pugh Cordero:I love that. And aside from you and Charlie, anyone else in the team like how big is the team now do you work remote have you got an office like what's your kind of current setup yeah so there is there's three of us full-time it's charlie the founder then me on the growth and sales side and then hebe who is our marketing and sustainability lead which is you take you know take reins on the content stuff online stuff's going on there and then sustainability stuff around to getting our credentials right all that of stuff and we are predominantly remote workers we do work together quite a lot in office shares or even sometimes uh in each other's in each other's houses or flats which is quite fun you know cafes as well and there is there is obviously an office on the hereford as well me and hebr are predominantly london based so yes mostly remote love that yeah i think it's easy when there's three of you you can you can work from home but as soon as your team starts getting a bit too big i think it's hard to sit around a big enough table yeah i could imagine that that would be hectic so yeah i mean mostly office shares in fairness so from a growth side run me through like a typical week or month i know every single day is very different we've just come off the back of easter so it's a bit of a crazy catch-up day um yeah what what does your call entail for anyone listening then what does a growth lead actually do well it's a great question it is a great question and you know part of the reason why i love this job is because it changes so much i'm sure you know in your role as well you you feel that and it's also whilst it's also So part of getting your head in to put loads of hats on is part of the fun.

7:35So I think a week for me could look like, you know, going out and doing off-trade visits at shops or even at restaurants on on-trade as well, or meetings and tastings. Samplings at shops as well is quite a big one. That's, you know, coming, you know, with summer coming as well. It's, you know, it's quite a nice, nice weather to actually get out and do some sampling as well. or whether it's sort of, you know, doing a lot of outreach and trying to bring in new business for Forever Farmers as well and get our line in as many venues and places who share our ethos or at least understand it and respect it for what it is.

8:11So, yeah, it looks, it's constantly changing and adapting. And with that, you know, so are we. But, yeah, that's sort of the main of it. Yeah, just traveling out and about, you know, being in the sales and meeting as many people as possible and spreading.

8:24Charlie Pugh Cordero:Yeah, love that. I think there's so many ways of doing that. obviously we're coming up to summer and festival season um are you guys appearing at any events or places that people can come along and try the drinks or see you guys yeah good question so we are doing um taste of london which really excited about as a as someone who used to work in consumer shows we i never actually got to see taste of london because we'd compete with them but always heard really good things from them especially from a sort of challenger brand perspective as well and then we are also doing Hampton Court Palace Food Festival as well which is I did last year which was really good we were so lucky with the weather as well so I mean it's so much easier especially for a drinks brand as well so yeah those are the two mains I think taste is in is taste in June yeah you see I've got another baby on the way so it's a time my baby's baby's due so I'm definitely not going to be there this year yeah I think I think it is the due date week um but we went last year as packed and absolutely loved it i mean the weather again was incredible we had like 30 degree heat so it was a bit too hot but yeah um it was perfect such nice outdoor energy and vibes and i think for you guys it'll be a great place to be turning up and showing people what you do um for those who haven't seen the range before like aside from the the tonics themselves like what kind of other drinks or um in terms of the tonics what varieties you've got lot like what kind of hero skews yeah so in the world of tonic water we've got obviously a classic and your light and then flavored elderflower and honey which is my personal favorite we have also got a cucumber and rosemary which is super super uh yeah it's got it's got a good amount of cucumber it's very refreshing good for when it's hot like this especially outside of the world of tonic water we have a spiced apple cola which is sort of melding that new natural cola sort of craze with heritage coming from herefordshire got put some apple in there um and then pink rose hit lemonade which is you know it's a pink lemonade but it's very aromatic put a lot of different um british herbs in there to give it a bit more of aroma and then a smoky ginger ale as well um which is i'm not big on on gingery gingery drinks but it's it's quite light and refreshing and it goes well with some stronger stuff as a mixer as well but yeah we and we've got some more softs to be coming out including like just your classic sodas and some other some other flavors i'm not sure if i'm allowed to say the flavors but i'm allowed to drop the soft drink lodge uh in there as well but yeah we're just looking we are looking to to keep developing and bringing stuff out that we think matches the brand and even though we've we seem to have started out predominantly as mixers we want to give drinks a clean responsible foundation and so you know could go anywhere over in the next few years to come as one so it's very exciting i love that and i love like you guys are carbon neutral certified which i think is really good um i just saw over the weekend actually b corps having a massive refresh and essentially upping their ethics and standards and all sorts because it was getting a bit of a badge of honor that everyone seemed to have yeah just taking it away from the core of why it exists so i think the fact that refreshing it is really exciting um because it stands for so much and i think it's great when you do see that um that badge of honor I think it's something to aspire to and to see them kind of going, you know what, I think it was getting a bit too lapsed.

11:40Charlie Pugh Cordero:Let's re-look at it. I think that's really, really positive. And I think what you guys are doing in the space is absolutely fantastic from the bottle itself. I'm an absolute packaging nerd. So I remember first time seeing it being like, oh, this is really cool. To actually the flavours, I think they all sound delicious. That sounds great. For you then, when you're doing everything with Forever Farmers, like going back to when you were young, what was it you wanted to do growing up were you like an active kid like what was it like when I grow up I think I'm going to do this um I don't I don't have like a complete answer to that question because I was very much a kid who would grow up and have different hobbies for like you know four or five months and then drop that I'll be going to the next one then that would be my life and then I'd drop that and go on to the next one the one that stuck around was football and I did want to be a footballer when I was a kid but I learned very early on that I would never become a footballer so yeah there wasn't like one one out and out dream I think I always wanted to work closely with people and in front of people and not be you know really stuck stuck behind a screen I know like some people really flourish behind that I really don't I kind of go a bit irate if I'm on my own for too long uh so yeah I think something being out there and about but yeah didn't manage to be a footballer but there's still time right yeah always yeah i think that's like every boy you're like right i'm gonna grab new footballer i was a goalkeeper because i liked football but didn't like running so i was like okay it's fine but all the diving actually taught me to be actually better at free running which is something i did do when i grow up so i was like actually it all kind of plays together so yeah there's something in there but for you then what was your journey into to getting to forever farmers so did you go into a sales world did you study sales like what did your kind of journey look like to get to where you are so yeah I studied economics and business at uni and then sort of realized I didn't really want to be maybe like a banker or something so aligned with economics after that so I went went out into the world I was actually a windscreen technician straight out of uni which was good fun but that gave me so much time to really knuckle down on what I wanted to do and you know find out I really like the client facing aspect of it so then i went for that and i was always told by people around me when i was doing that classic like leave uni try and find find out what you want to do with your life that i would be really good in a sales role or an account managing role so i looked at stuff like that found the good food shows on linkedin and i've always been very big on food and drink a food and drink snob if you will from from young obviously you know you could touch on that we never had fizzy drinks in the house only tonic water so that's probably says it says about being snob about food uh and then at the good food shows i worked mostly with challenger brands um and found you know a lot of sort of inspiration from founders as well and working closely with them trying to get their brand to grow through you know through our events at the time and i think it just after like a year or something like that i did used to always think i'd really love to work for a challenger brand and live in this sort of I don't know live in this turmoil if you will where it's like you know you you're constantly up and down up and down and you're and I really remember wanting to really feel like emotionally tied to the to the job I was doing which it does like saying that out loud it sounds crazy but I just remember really wanting that and seeing that in founders and seeing that passion and yeah I'm lucky I managed to find a brand that I feel passionate about and go from there yeah in your uh experience and when you were working with some of these other brands was there any anyone aside from forever farmers you were like oh i really loved what they were doing and it was great to see their journey or is there anyone that kind of springs to mind that kind of reinforced oh actually maybe challenger brand is something i want to be doing more of yeah i think definitely i mean like for starters there were first the first person that comes to mind is is truffle guys and uh ricky from truffle guys remember remember you know because i remember thinking that they were you know an amazing amazing brand and then i was lucky enough to to meet ricky at one of our shows where we weren't going to too much but we had like started off with a discussion and you know about stand locations xyz and then we sort of sorted it straight away and then as soon as being able to do that we were able to have a really on a level conversation he's telling me about the brand and stuff like that and gave me you know really quick insights to to what you to the to the game if you will and i remember really sort of finding that keep being inspired and being like wow okay that sounds so fun and so different it's so you know that hectic like i said so i think yeah truffle guys there's some there's a few sort of other ones there's a few there's a few even like uh colombian street foods that i used to work with who were really really small who were just starting and seeing them you know go through the launch to then put in you know their foods in front of people so not even just from a brand perspective but also just from a food perspective and seeing people go through all of the admin parts of getting a company ready and then giving out their products to people and getting that feedback and seeing the end of the end of a really good day where they might have given out loads of samples and also spoke to buyers etc and seeing that passion that like it and that happiness that instills in these founders and I remember just being like I really I really sort of see that feeling and kind of want to emulate it for myself.

16:57Charlie Pugh Cordero:Yeah I think there's there's always brands that you look to like I don't know if there's anyone that comes to mind now that not necessarily you've worked with but someone you admire in the scene from a sustainability or an action or just a an awesome brand perspective because i like absorb brands every day i love walking around a supermarket and finding things i don't know about and go oh who is this or just seeing products on shelf where i know the founders or the teams i'm like just this is that's what kind of gives me energy and i love that side so for you what was it about this space in terms of going okay like i want to do something sustainability i want to do something in challenger or I want to do something with people like sales encompasses kind of all of that especially if you're working within that is there any kind of examples of within your role now where you've had those early conversations that have kind of given you that excitement of oh I went and approached this shop and got the product listed or because I think those are the early moments when you have to kind of go out and do those cold sales or speak to new people yeah you kind of go oh it's a bit like I've got to go and do it now but um it's very rewarding when it comes off 100 % it is very scary and it is very rewarding when it does come off and you know being not from London with an accent that's semi understandable for a lot of people living in London as well it was extra scary as well going into these places having to like really really subbing myself up a little bit at times but yeah I think a moment that sticks out to me and I always bring it up is probably my first sort of on trade win uh because you know breaking into the on trade in London it took a lot of pipeline building and that was probably one of the quietest times in my sales career if you will of just constant constant pipeline building outreach and then we managed to get our first on trade listing with a green Michelin star restaurant in Mayfair called Apricity and we were then lucky enough to go down and do a little bit of filming and then we were like you know we were eating there as well it's an amazing amazing food drinking our own drink that we got onto the onto the shelves there behind the bar and i think that was my moment about okay wow this is this is so worth it's why i do it so you can have that that connects to you know a restaurant that i i would probably me personally very rarely get to visit for starters and eat that kind of quality of food and also you know get to talk to people who really share that that ethos you know prissy is a restaurant who with a green michelin like you know they're plant-based they focus on sustainability and responsibility and ethical sourcing so it was it was an all-rounded like a moment and it was the it was the first one as well so obviously you never forget the first um so yeah i'd probably say that pretty shout out love that and in terms of like if people want to buy the products where you guys listed in terms of from a retail sales like do you do d2c like how do people get hold of the products yes um so yeah we have actually just launched a new website and we do do d2c there as well so you can buy our full range on there if you're looking to buy us out and about you know we are up and down the country in palm shops garden centers delis if you're looking in london then we we've managed to get recently into uh just just north of about 100 sort of retailers no no big chains or anything like that but we work sort of closely with some wholesalers getting us into your typical London like health shops or like I don't even know what you'd call them you know like London-y farm shops where they're not quite yeah and off-licensed but they're not it's that whole foods kind of shop a lot of places like that dotted around you know what I would say if people are really wanting to try you know always feel free to message me on LinkedIn where you are and I can always you know direct you to your closest shop as well yeah I love that yeah it's like the independent grocers and that kind of world like I remember going to some like uh is it caverners and like these kind of ones that yeah just like their own their own like whole food style setup but it looks stunning and the produce is amazing and the selection's great so it's a fun one yeah proper but yeah it's definitely a learning i had the same when i was at just going around speaking to random shops just being like oh who do you buy through we're like where are you stocked why don't you have this did it and it's all part of the game but yeah like a lot of lessons and learnings um and as you said winning the green michelin um is amazing it's definitely sounds amazing i need to check it out yeah you're you're you're are you veggie or vegan vegan yeah i've been vegan 10 years so yeah always love these places parexa was i worked there for a while so again parexa would be a great one to go and speak to from a sustainability point of view being fully plant-based nice definitely go give them a nudge yeah i love a lead i love a lead flipping it completely so tough day at the office um i know you said obviously early days it was a lot of pipe fill but is there any kind of examples of things that didn't go to plan or yeah what's what was for you is like a tough day like that wasn't a great day for me yeah good question yeah so i mean it was i'm gonna draw it back to like the pipeline building for the on trade in london you know i think in one month i did there were 100 visits to different pubs and restaurants and there's one day and from that and building that obviously when you're starting a pipeline and you get people further down the sales cycle quicker than you'd expect i personally get very excited and i remember i had one day where i thought i was contracting two pubs on the same day uh for like 12 months and both both of them sort of just had to turn around and say actually you know we had a change of heart with without explanation i remember that being a very very disappointing day but then the next week we managed to get into quite a few more that came out of nowhere so i remember it i remember talking to charlie the founder for farmers about this saying that why is it always like when you're so deep down that then suddenly it seems to be the next best thing seems to come around and it keeps happening like that so very lucky about that but i remember that day going starting off very happy with two different sort of partnership contracts printed off ready to go over um and then lose and then sort of losing out just because last minute stuff uh and that was difficult but but luckily we were i was very lucky that then a lot of other people came back very shortly to pick myself out of it uh maybe they could they could tell i don't know but yeah that was probably probably probably the toughest day i've had to date yeah i think like it's it's that macro lens of like when you zoom in and it's like a real high a real low real high a real low when you kind of zoom out a little bit you're like oh actually it kind of balances out because like in amongst it all you are still progressing you are still growing but it is like oh an amazing opportunity oh it didn't happen oh but this one did and then this one didn't and then like it's constant that is the the sales kind of like adrenaline cycle that you're always going okay i need more i need more i need more it's like that yeah almost like addictive like okay how do i win the next thing like what's what's bigger what's better like keep going so for you who would be your dream partner or dream place for listing the product that you're like oh this is one that i really want to make happen whether you respect them or not i think it's just a nice way to kind of go put it into fruition yeah manifest it manifest manifest manifest okay i mean the big one is definitely you know probably whole foods market or or waitrose like if i saw us in those places i would be ecstatic about um and you know hopefully soon and with those guys on like a small sort of individual you know personal basis i really really like these this plant-based pizza people called parezza have you heard of them yeah i know them quite well actually yeah come on come on get them to call me i just really like i just really enjoy them i don't know why i've only eaten there like twice i think and it was quite a while ago but i just remember thinking god forever farmers would look incredible here and all the places like that like you you know you're the smaller sort of chains that have really have stainless be there that harlot honest burgers as well would absolutely love love that so if you know them as well mitch send my email on you need a you need a field sales day in brighton for sure yes brighton is the place uh whole foods down there if you're not already stocked definitely a good one to shout to well it's kind of a mini whole foods in itself um but just such an amazing business yeah yeah i've heard a lot about brighton you're not the first person to recommend brighton and i get bristol a lot as well yeah brighton and bristol definitely because they're the two i'd say two big sustainability and plant-based kind of hubs and it kind of goes hand in hand it's like people who are plant-based is often the sustainable angle and people who like sustainability are looking at supporting the local like economy and the infrastructure and there's just so many great independent businesses and both of them i think it's just always good to to go and visit they're two of my favorite cities for sure i mean i'll definitely do a fields day down in brighton i'll try and make sure that it's on a nice sunny day as well getting it finished with sunset on the beach never i've not been down brighton way as well yeah yeah definitely get that like founder charlie if you're listening getting down there get the train box for for you then so you you've made the leap you went from the the good food shows and then gone all in in one brand like to anyone who's early days in the sales world going okay maybe i do want to jump to challenger or i'm not sure what would your top advice be well um i would say make sure that it's for a brand that you really sort of see something with and see yourself within and you know definitely sort of take the leap if it's if it's a thought that's been recurring in your mind then you know obviously take the leap because there's so much more to be done and you and you find so much more time where times where your time is really valuable so it helps you you know in my experience it's helped me learn so much in such a short space of time and what i had when choosing whether to go or not was you know do how passionate am I about this and do I want to be working somewhere that I feel really passionate about or maybe leave something that seems to be a little bit more a little bit more comfortable so I definitely say that I definitely say do your research as well and I definitely say don't don't be afraid to have like a proper conversation with the founders of of any of any companies that you're looking to join as well so you can really understand what what you're getting in for and I'd say do it it's it's been a great decision from my perspective so far and yeah you know I think mainly just being in a space where you can grow and learn from your from your own actions in your own day-to-day ops is is a bit of a blessing that you don't get as much in the bigger companies as well yeah as we touched on you're you're one of three full-time employees at the moment so you are almost being a founder which is exactly why the unfounders exist to to celebrate people like you and and give you some some air time to talk about everything um and just celebrate the fact that yeah there's a lot going on but it's always always good fun lots of lessons and learning and it's such a great experience to continue along your career.

27:27Charlie Pugh Cordero:This is the music question that I ask everyone. What is your song of choice? What's the one that comes to mind? I did prep for this and I did change my mind about a million times. I think for me, a song that I always come back to, whether it's for motivation or just to start the day or even when I'm feeling good as well, is probably Move On Up by Curtis Mayfield. So yeah, it gets me good. I don't know if you've had that one yet. I don't think it's on the playlist. It's an absolute tune and is on so many of my playlists and so many generic kind of happy Spotify playlists that you'll find. But it's always, yeah, such a good high energy track.

28:05Charlie Pugh Cordero:Yeah, I love it. And again, yeah, very good, very good suggestion. And I'm sure everyone listening at home is probably smiling and going like, oh yeah, it's a tune. There are. I'll get that straight on the playlist. Have you had any of that like heavy metal or anything like that? Yeah, we've got some screamo on there. We've got all sorts. there's a we've got a frozen as from last week so yeah yeah i need to have a look at this playlist yeah it's yeah it's in the show notes to anyone listening check the show notes click it yeah it's a very very wild playlist but um yeah i think craig who was a wild find at the time he's now at bid food his is still one of the most eclectic i think it's called like carnival but it is like a carnival in one song that kind of has highs lows and all sorts it's it kind of encompasses the chaos of working in a startup okay you come away with a high blood pressure and breathing faster because it's just so frantic um i was like how how can you listen to this that is wild i need to get through looking through this playlist then as well because i was really thinking i was thinking i wonder if anyone's put some crazy crazy stuff in there um yeah i have to get on it it's very varied i think there's two or three disney songs in there so yeah it's a yeah it's something for everyone probably not the most nice listen if you just play it through but it's varied if you like variants yeah i'm into that well i'm glad to put curtis in there yeah no absolute tune but no i think what you guys are doing is brilliant i think they are absolutely delicious delicious products thank you i know the the guys at penrose gin quite well and obviously they did the aluminium bottles as well so if you haven't already teamed up and done your gin and your tonic together definitely need to get that on some web shops because i think it's just that natural meshing of people going oh okay, this makes sense.

29:43Yeah, yeah. The aluminium thing.

29:45Charlie Pugh Cordero:Yeah, exactly. Same with Vinker. They've got their wine in their bottles and so many great brands doing this. And I love anyone who's doing things in this sustainable space going, you know what, like we can do this better. And there's just so many great reasons for it. So thank you, Mitch. Yeah, it's been brilliant getting to know you. I think it's very exciting to see what you're going to do next. And I'll be keeping an eye on your events and where Forever Farmers grows to. So thank you so much for sharing. Thanks, Mitch. Thank you. It's been a pleasure to be on here as well. For anyone who wants to connect with you, is LinkedIn the best place through the website?

30:16Charlie Pugh Cordero:How should people find out more? Yeah, I think, you know, to connect to me personally, LinkedIn's always the best to interact with the brand. And, you know, if you're looking to buy the drinks directly, I always say the website. If you want to find out where you can get them that's close to you, then I'm always welcoming messages to get in touch as well. Welcome any questions about the wider brand as well, to be honest. So, yeah, LinkedIn's always the best. Love that. Yeah, I'll tag you in the show notes as well. but no I think it's looking at the weather outside I'm like oh it could be gin and tonic yeah tonight it is it is I'll send I'll send some over first class yeah absolutely I love that but no thank you so much Charlie it's been a pleasure thank you Mitch and to everyone listening thank you so much we will see you on the next episode goodbye