231: Wilcox's BIG Statement! CRAZY Martinez Decision!

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0:17Hello, everybody. Good morning and welcome to the United Stands. I'm Mark Goldbridge and this is your latest Manchester United news as United prepare to take a big risk on the return of Lissandro Martinez, Jason Wilcox. gives a big and in-depth interview on the shape of Manchester United and why he thinks we're heading in the right direction under him, Wilcox, Barada and Sir Jim, why we had a good summer transfer window and why they are top of their game in getting Manchester United back to where they need to be. Only last night we were talking about Cristiano Ronaldo's view. I have a view. I'm sure you have a view as well.

0:53Is he talking PR bollocks or is he talking sense? Personally, I think there is some sense in there, But also, I think there is huge risk baked in that, you know, we're not the only club doing what we're doing. So does that take us back? I think that's always something to keep in mind. We've got a little bit on Elliot Anderson as well and a few other bits to talk into as well. Look, I want to start off talking about Jason Wilcox's interview. He's spoken about where we are, you know, the disappointment of the weekend, how we have to stay on track, how they think they're heading on track, what they're doing around recruitment, why they're buying certain players.

1:25He has also mentioned the mentality thing, which I think we've been talking about for a while at the club way before Wilcox came in is such an important thing. But I want to start off with this around Lissandro Martinez because it caused a bit of a stir last night. I was watching the Champions League last night and I saw this and, you know, I quote tweeted it and said, what a crock of shit. I don't agree with it. Lissandro Martinez could join up with Argentina in the international break, even though he might not have made his comeback for United. It's understood that United feel Martinez's recovery may be better served by training at a high level with Argentina rather than staying at Carrington when most of his teammates will be away on international duty and the remainder will be having some off and lighter workouts.

2:04So I basically said that, look, I get it. I understand it. Lissandro Martinez loves playing for Argentina. The training in Argentina may be a little bit more regular than what it will be at Carrington because it's the international break. But I only care about Manchester United. Now, I had people swearing at me, abuse, all this. You don't know more than our fitness department. Well, funnily enough, I think I do. I think my cat knows more than our fitness department based on the last few years, honestly. So I find that one quite funny straight away. I think our doctors at Carrington know better than you.

2:39I genuinely don't think they do. And I think their track record speaks for themselves. But primarily, all I'm interested in is Manchester United. And whilst I completely understand that Lissandro Martinez flying to Argentina and back might make him feel better. He'll get to train with his teammates and feel in a better place mentally and physically. I get all that. But first and foremost, did we not do this with Luke Shaw at the end of the season when he hadn't played for us for six months, where he went and had a feel-good Euros with England and wasn't even fit and got back for England and felt good.

3:13And you'd think he'd come back to United appreciative and really ready to go. He came back to Man United and got injured and didn't play for another few months. So, excuse me, it's a world of opinion. I don't agree with this. I don't. And it's nothing against Martinez and it's nothing against the advice from Manchester United. I just think this is bordering on risk. Well, it is risky. It's risky. Like, what if he goes there in a competitive session with Romero and, you know, has a setback? You know, what if he goes, you know, you're telling me that two long distance flights in the space of a week are good for a player's recovery?

3:48I don't think it is. And, you know, also, is it not the South American players that tend to come back and aren't even ready for the following Premier League weekend? Now, look, admittedly, we're playing on a Monday night, so it might not be that big. But as Gene says, we pay his wages. I think that, look, ultimately, we've done this before with Luke Shaw. He hasn't played for the football club this season or most of last season. He hasn't even returned for us yet. Like if you'd played against Forest and you played against Spurs, I'd still be a little bit like you've played two games. I'd rather you just had two weeks off.

4:25He hasn't even played for us yet. And we're like, yeah, we think it's a good idea to go to Argentina and train with the Argentinian national team. I find it ridiculous. And I love Lissandro Martinez. And I want Amorim to do well and I want Man United to do well. But for a football club that's had a terrible track record, I actually do not give a shit about international teams, by the way. I can make that very, very clear. Manchester United come before Portugal, England, and I'm English, Argentina. I get that people like Luke Shaw value England over Man United and the evidence is there that he does.

4:56And you'll probably say he doesn't, but, you know, he has said stuff in the past. And I get that Martinez probably values Argentina over Man United because they're very passionate and Casemiro values Brazil. And I understand that and that's fine. But I value Man United over any international team and we need him back. and I don't feel comfortable with any player. If Luke Shaw was doing that, there'd be an uproar. Because it's Martinez and we all love Martinez, we're like, well, you know, it's good for his mental health. It'll be good for his recovery. If that was Luke Shaw and he hadn't played for six months and we were going, we think it's good for him to go and train with the England team, people would go mad.

5:31So I think that it's a huge, huge, huge risk. And I'm just going to say that. And people can disagree with me and I think a lot of people will. And I think they'll do it on the basis of we like Martinez. You know, it's good for him. But I honestly think him not going to Argentina, staying at Carrington for two weeks will be much better for Manchester United than it will be if he goes there. And if anything goes wrong, why run the risk? Why run the risk? And I think we did. I'm pretty sure we did this before with Martinez. I'm pretty sure we did do this before with Martinez. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong.

6:09I'm pretty sure he was recovering before and he went out to Argentina. And I don't think he trained with them. I think he just, you know, sort of did some light training with them. Look, there's a time where you've got to put Manchester United first. And I put Manchester United first. So there we go. Someone said, could we do a poll on it? We can. I mean, I really don't care. Should, I mean, I do care. But what I mean is I won't be influenced by whatever you vote. The great thing about this community is that we have had big disagreements, but we remain united. Should Martinez go on international duty?

6:45Let me know your thoughts there. I just think he's such an important player for us. And I just can't. It's not like he's going down the road to St. George's Park in Middle England. He's going to the other side of the world for Argentina. So, yeah. Veghorse says, have you seen the height difference between Ahmad and MGW? Is that Mason Greenwood or Morgan Gibbs White? No. And Andre Smith, don't tell me they're the same height. Andre Smith, welcome to Members Club. Thank you very much. Thank you very much for that. Anyway, lots of people are saying things like we did and he got sent home, says Daniel Richardson.

7:27We did do this before. He prioritised celebrating with Argentina when we were struggling on the pitch after the World Cup to spill the tea. We pay his wages. He should listen to us. Well, apparently Man United are recommending it. So that's the story from Chris Wheeler in the Daily Mail. Man United are recommending this. So, you know, I don't think we can blame Martinez based on the story that's coming out. Apparently, Ahmad and Morgan Gibbs-White are the same height.

7:54Anyway, let's talk about what Jason Wilcox had to say. We can come back to that. I just think like, you know, you listen to Jason Wilcox and you think the club are moving forward and then you hear stuff like this. He hasn't played for us this season and we're saying, yeah, go on international duty. I mean, Sir Alex Ferguson would never do this, by the way. And I'm a child of the Sir Alex Ferguson era. I can't help that. A lot of us are. Sir Alex Ferguson would say, hey, Giggsie, how's your hamstring? It's fine, boss. No, how's your hamstring? It's all right. What's next week? The international break.

8:28How's your hamstring? Oh, yeah, it is a bit tight. Yeah, he's a bit... Sir Alex would get his players out of international duty as much as he could. And we are... We think it's a good idea for them to go on it. You know, Argentina is still the other side of the world. I just think it's ridiculous. I really, really do. But, you know, we'll have to wait and see how that one pans out. What we don't have to wait and see to pan out is this interview from Jason Wilcox. Very, very interesting stuff and a lot to unpick here. Now, I want to overarch this by saying this is an interview with the club. Therefore, it's going to be very, very PR led.

9:05I think there are some good bits in there. But I just want to say everything I read here, my opinion is going to come out. Your opinion is going to come out. But all I do when I read this sort of stuff is two things. One, who's done the interview? The club. So, you know, MUTV, the club, whatever. it's going to be very pro the club. I understand that. It's better than nothing. Point two, everything he says, do you think we're the only club in the world doing this? Brighton are doing what he's talking about. Liverpool, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Bayern Munich, everybody's doing this. So, you know, the fact that we haven't been doing this is scary.

9:41The fact that we are doing it will help us improve doesn't necessarily take us into the top four if loads of other teams are already doing it. But it's a step in the right direction. I like some of the stuff he said. He said, we are all doing now, all we are doing now is making sure that we make decisions for the football club and not for the benefit, not for the short term protection of ourselves. We're making some really bold decisions for the future of Manchester United. Man United is bigger than any player, any manager, any staff member. We are custodians, if you like, and we've got to understand that at some point our journey will end inevitably.

10:13we need to make sure that when we leave this football club whenever that is and I hope I'm here for a long long time that this club is in a much better position well look I mean that's a very good start to an interview and to be honest with you you'd have to be absolutely inept to not put the club in a better position from I mean look we all said Wilcox, Sir Jim, Barada, Amarim I mean it's an open goal it's a tap-in how you can't make some of the quick wins that the previous people didn't and I'll never know so I think we should be in a better position he said I really feel now this football club is moving in the right direction and that's my view that's not biased I'm working here I look at every department and I'm going to talk about the sporting department only because it's unfair for me to talk about any other department but when I think about the sporting department we are making progress in every area in every single area we are making progress and the fans have been a huge contributor to making sure we can make the right decisions and ultimately our plan, our idea is for us to get back for winning them.

11:09They are a huge part of the football club. Part of the history is one of the thing, but the fans, the generations that come to Old Trafford is something special. You can't begin to explain it. It's very, very special. I mean, I wish he'd told us what the plans were, but you know, again, you know, nothing wrong with that. This is the most interesting bit. Last year's summer transfer window, 2024, was a lot more chaotic than the one we've just had, which was very calm. with this one we knew the plan we knew which players we were going to target and we had our lists we knew which areas of the pitch we needed to improve there are continuous meetings with myself and and ruben with vavel and with his team underneath where we are very clear on the profiles that we need so the brief will the brief will come from myself and ruben it goes into chris there is a lot of debate and discussions around the profiles that we need and then the scouts will go into the market we will combine that with the data team and then there will just be a constant dialogue.

12:03I mean, look, there are a lot of statements to get through here. So I just want to jump in in there and say, I've got to say, I don't think this transfer window was calm. I don't think it was less chaotic than last year. So it's interesting that Wilcox lived it and feels that that window we've just had was calm compared to the previous one. When I look at the previous one, Yoro was done pretty early in July. Xerxes followed quite quickly and Masraoui and Dalit were done by the first week in August. It wasn't ideal, but there was a Euros going on and we did reasonably well. When I look at the one we've just had, I'm sorry, I gave it a five out of 10.

12:46I can't agree with Jason Wilcox that the last summer transfer window was a calm and collective success. Our striker wasn't fit for the start of the season and he was technically fifth choice. Our goalkeeper cost us the Carabao Cup and we didn't replace him until the last few hours of the transfer window. We didn't get a midfielder. I think Kunja and Embermo are exemplary signings and have actually been our best two signings. And I applaud the club on that. We did overpay on Embermo a lot and a bit and it did take a long time. But a very good signing and Kunja was done very, very early. But I can't reassess that window and say, oh, yeah, what a good window that was.

13:28it was really calm. We went into the season with an honouring goal and Beinder, we didn't get the goalkeeper until the last day of the window. And he's only been ready for the last three games. Sesko's still not match fit, really, is he? You know, that was a late signing and it was choice five. And the midfielder, we didn't even get. So, you know, this is what I mean. Like, obviously, there's a lot of good stuff in there from Wilcox, but I'm not just going to sit back. I said this after the Ronaldo interview yesterday. I'm not going to sit there because we've won three games and go, yeah, this ownership's really good.

14:00I still think this ownership is the worst thing about Manchester United. At the end of the day, Wilcox is a puppet for the Glazers. So's Sir Jim, so's Amrim. They're all employed by the Glazers and that's the biggest problem with that football club. So I'm never just going to sit there and go, oh, Jason Wilcox says we've had a really good summer transfer window. It's this, you know, whitewashing bullshit that we have to really be very, very careful about. Like, we didn't have a very good transfer window. We didn't have a calm transfer window. We didn't have a perfect transfer window. We lived it, sometimes four times a day on this channel.

14:32Where's the midfielder? Where's the goalkeeper? Why haven't we got a striker yet? Why aren't we getting these players in early for such an important pre-season? So, you know, I think that the club is moving. I believe the club is moving in a different direction. I believe the club hopefully is moving in a slightly better position. I mean, look at where we are in the league. We're not 15. but let's not start patting ourselves on the back and pretending that we're doing well I mean look Jason Wilcox is a mouthpiece for the Glazers I like a lot of what he says and I like a lot of what we discussed and there's more but let's not forget he is a mouthpiece for the Glazers and ultimately I think if you got him privately gave him put him on a lying test machine and said were you happy with that window it would be no I think if you put him on a lying test machine and said, did you want a midfielder?

15:22He would say yes. And I think if you put him on that machine and said, why didn't you get a midfielder? Was it the Glazers? He'd say yes. That would be the answer. So look, let's just forget. Let's just remember, we are moving slightly in the right direction, but it's not negative. It's constructive to say that that guy is not going to say anything that's going to cost him his job. And that was not a perfect transfer window. And we did not get everything he wanted. And we did not do everything in good time. And it was not calm. I think because we're unbeaten in four games, they can all sit there and pat themselves on the back.

15:54But it could have been a lot better and it should have been a lot better. Why it wasn't a lot better, I don't actually blame Wilcox. I don't blame Amerim. I don't necessarily blame Barada. I blame Sir Jim and I blame the owners because somewhere along the line, we messed up. The goalkeeper was too late and the midfielder never happened.

16:17um Rathgod said they should stop saying we're doing better than last season anything worse is literally relegation well look factually we are we're in a better position in the league aren't we um that's that there's no doubt about that um there was something i wanted to talk about in relation to he spoke about sesco as well um but there was something about

16:45did i did i put it in here yeah he spoke about the summer signings

16:53if anyone can find i don't know where the quote is there was something about signing players and the profile of player that they want they want to bring into the club i I read this so much. This is the one. This is the one. So Wilcox said, right now, I'm having weekly meetings with the recruitment team on the different profiles, the age bracket, the cost. Are they attainable? With Ruben as well. So it's a really joined up approach. I like this. This is probably my favorite bit of the interview. We're having these weekly meetings, these recruitment meetings, and we're talking about the profiles of the players, the age bracket, the cost, attainability.

17:32It's a really joined up approach. Now, why we weren't doing this before or if we were doing it, I mean, Edward would might be there choking on his crunchy nut cornflakes saying we've always done this. But, you know, I think sometimes we don't actually get this information. And this is this is the sort of stuff that Dortmund and Bayern Munich, their CEOs, their director of football speak as much as the manager. and this is why Manchester United should do this more because the director of football not doing this and hasn't done this for a long time at Man United why can't you do that? You're in the safety barrier of a Man United interview room and you're saying stuff that the fans want to hear and if you fail then at least we know what you were doing and you weren't very good at it rather than we don't know what you're doing so for Jason Wilcox our director of football to be saying that he has weekly meetings with the recruitment team and he talks with Amrim about the different priorities in the team, what the age bracket we should be looking at, the cost, whether they're attainable.

18:31I find this very, very important because we get this bollocks like last week where they're saying, I can't remember what journalist said it, Man United have started sitting down and talking about the January transfer window. And I said, bollocks, like they've been talking about the January transfer window the minute the summer transfer window closed all the way through September and October. They're not going to sit down and go, let's talk about the January transfer window in November. But some people believe that nonsense and they're not, you know, this is good from Wilcox that we are actually doing this on a weekly basis and it should be 52 weeks a year.

18:59Just because the January transfer window closes on February the 1st, we should be talking about what's available in the summer. In fact, you should be talking in September about what's attainable for next summer and sometimes 18 months ahead because you're looking at contracts. Real Madrid, we're looking at people like Trent two years from their contract running down. So you've got to be looking longer than two months before the next window. He said, when we sign a player, there are so many people that are involved in the process, The data team are involved in the process and we will then focus all our attention on certain players.

19:30It's really, this is brilliant. It's really important that when we do the background checks, are they clean living professionals? Now, some of the people in the chat are going to get really moody about this. But this is absolutely OK and it's absolutely allowed. And some people think it should be banished because it's 2025 and it's not politically correct or whatever bollocks. I mentioned this literally two days ago when I was talking about Pedro Neto I was saying look apparently he's married he's got kids he's you know that's quite an interesting profile compared to a different player who might be somebody who's out with his mates on a Saturday night I know what I would go for if the ability and age and everything else is the same I'd go for the clean you know not necessarily clean living professional but somebody with a more stable home life is it's going to be more preferable well apparently can't do that it's not fair you know it might be from a, you know, nonsense.

20:24Our director of football has just literally said it. And it's true. And it's good because we haven't, we definitely haven't done this. We definitely haven't been doing this over the last decade. We definitely haven't been scrutinizing players doing background checks on, you know, are they clean living professionals? We've definitely not done that. And there's multiple players that we can say we haven't done that for, but we haven't done that. And he goes on to say, this is really important because this year we looked at Premier League ready players. And with Mbermo and Cunha, we couldn't take too much risk in that area.

20:55We needed players that we could plug in and play with little transition time. See, that's what I like because that's you. That's us. That's the fans. It's logical. Football's very logical. Football's very simple. And for too many years, Manchester United have recruited players in a way that's, I would say hype. Oh, he looks good. Oh, he looks good. Oh, we could sell some shirts with him. Whereas with Cunha and Mbamo, I think it was very much about what do we know about them? What's their motivations? Professionals focused on football, plug and play. It's worth the money. it's worth the 65 million pounds for Mbamo more than it is worth the 50 million pounds for a 21 year old from the French League who you know likes to go out with his mates on a Saturday night it is I'm sorry people go well that's not fair you know he might be going out with his mates bowling he might be but he's from an unproven league he's young and he isn't settled whereas Mbamo is 25 is in the Premier League, he's ready to go.

22:05And that's fine. You can make those decisions. Some people might go for the 21-year-old from the French League and he ends up being the next Thierry Henry. But we've got to look at that and we are looking at that. And you know what? I've got to say, I'm very impressed with the Jason Wilcox interview. I am because I think it's not rocket science, but it's playing to what we want to hear. I want to hear that we're doing these things because we've not heard that we're doing these things. And they're logical things to do and they're open goal tapp-ins. And I'm not going to say, oh, Jason Wilcox, a GOAT.

22:39He's the GOAT director of football. I mean, he's literally doing what we've been talking about for a very long time, but we haven't been doing it. The negative people might say, well, this is not even going to get his top four because every other club's been doing this for years. Look at Brighton, look at Arsenal, look at, you know, everybody else is doing this. But the fact is we haven't been doing it. We factually haven't been doing it. I said yesterday, look, it's very unfair to pin this on Jadon Sancho and I'm not pinning it on Jadon Sancho. He's just an example. But by the time Jadon Sancho walks out of this club next summer when he's 25, we'll have spent about£120 million on him.

23:16And for what did we get in return? So we bought him when he was about 20. He's going to walk for free at 25. And we spent£120 million pounds across that five years. For what? For what? What have we actually got? How many edge of the seat games have we had? How many trophies has he won? How many good games has he had? And he's not the only one. The list goes on and on. Alexi Sanchez, you know, might not be somebody that isn't clean living or professional, but certainly there was a story there we didn't pick up on. Mason Mount, we didn't pick up on that. Mason Mount's probably a clean living, football-loving professional, but he ain't fit and never bloody is.

23:57So it's not just about, oh, he goes out on a Saturday night with his mates when he can. It's about the whole package. Like, what's the story with this player? Injuries, how they conduct themselves, mentality. We could write a list and we'd be here all day about who we got that wrong with. Somebody in the chat said, what about Paul Pogba? I don't know. I think Paul Pogba's a bit different. I mean, there's another category is Paul Pogba maybe Marcus Rashford towards the end but we didn't buy Rashford what about Donny van der Beek Donny van der Beek you've got to question the mentality of the big move Memphis Depay Di Maria Pogba's a little bit different because he's Pogba not the brand player you know Pogba's not I think you could put Pogba into I liked Pogba as a player and I think when he was fit and up for it.

24:47Very good player. But was he a, you know, you look at his agency, bit of brandification, you know, Pogba before Man United. Again, that's another thing. So it's not just about clean living professionals who are focused on football. What about players that are focused on themselves and not the club are thinking about their next move, their next brand deal. What about players that don't have the mentality for a big club? What about people who are injured? It's, there's multiple levels to it, really. Do you think we might go for a striker and a midfielder in January says Franklin and I'd like to think I'd like to see us go for a striker and a midfielder in January obviously we went for you know we've got the Anderson thing I can talk about talk about in a bit but look I think I think we've got to be active in the January transfer window and it sounds like you know we are considering things we can't be risking Martinez, it could be a setback.

25:44His Irish whiskey. I've done that one as well. Thank you very much for your super chats. Pop them in. We'll read those out. OK, let's carry on with a little bit more from Wilcox here. That was my favourite bit of the interview. He said, with Sesco at the top end, he's going to be an amazing player. It's difficult to be a number nine at United. And I know sometimes that Kunja and Mbimo are getting a lot of the credit. But the runs that Sesco is making also So it helps Matthias and Brian as well. All four of them have done really well. The summer signings from last year, they are top professionals.

26:16So I think that's just a public backing for Sesko. He said, in relation to the players, when the meeting time is 9.45 and you see the guys arriving at 8.30, 8.45, that's a good signing. Whether we win or lose, the atmosphere and intensity doesn't change. Of course, when we lose, there's a lot of disappointment and frustration. But once they're on the training ground, you can see, you can feel their character, their team spirit and their energy. I mean look to be honest with you I'd file that in bullshit you know talk to me about recruitment talk to me about your plans to make changes there but don't talk to me about the squad suddenly flicking a switch Jason that's bullshit and you know it is Manchester United's biggest problem over the last few years has been a dressing room that is weak and a light switch dressing room that turns the light on and off I don't for one minute believe that suddenly this team is like turning up for training buzzing, energised, ready to go again.

27:11Until I see that over six months, I'm not going to say it's back over four games. And we saw, you know, if the team is back and everything's great, why did we switch off for, you know, 20 minutes in the second half against Forest? You know, that's still a work in progress. And that's only going to change by you buying more people like Mbamo and Cunha. Let's not pretend this dressing room's great. Like there are still eight, nine, 10 players that need to go and eight, nine, 10 players that need to come in. I think progress is being made. I think certain players coming in have made a big difference, not just this summer, but last summer as well.

27:43But yeah, we're not... I can't look at that squad and go, yeah, we're back. There's still issues in there. Also, he said, spoke about Sesco, didn't we? On LeMens, he says, Tony Coton, the goalkeeping scout, was putting him on my radar 12 months ago and he was relentless with it. This guy is going to be a top signing for us and he started well, but he's got to keep it going he's very reflective and a very professional with his approach we weren't always looking at goalkeepers that have got huge potential we were always looking at goalkeepers that have huge potential Senny was available and we decided to move but it wasn't a knee jerk reaction well I think we should have moved a little bit quicker on that I think I think we're all in agreement that we should have moved on a goalkeeper earlier in the summer and it would have been great to have laments from game one instead of what game week six but I think he is a good signing and we're very happy about that.

28:35What else did he have to say as well? We spoke about that. I spoke about that. The club's moving in the right direction as well. There we go. This is from Simon Stone, Jason Wilcox, about the direction of travel at Manchester United. Putting the jigsaw pieces together, we would love to have all of the pieces in place where we can see a very very clear picture but whilst we're building and whilst we are building the picture it is it is even more difficult when you lose matches because people start questioning things but we're really clear myself amarin omar the ownership we're clear on the direction of travel and this is really important so i think that's a that's a good sort of topic as well to bring in um wilcox is basically saying that you know we feel that we're building the jigsaw and we feel that we know what the pieces are, but we might not be able to put them in place.

29:31And when you lose a game and the picture's not complete, then people start questioning things. But we know the picture we want to build and we're going to stick to that plan. Now, that's absolutely fine when you've won three games in a row and you've drawn one, so you're four games unbeaten. But in the last international break, there'd be a very different reaction to that statement to Wilcox. A lot of people would say he's an idiot. the picture's not clear at all and you're never going to build it so timing's very important i think at the moment this is a very well-timed interview and it can only add to the optimism and buzz but as i said four weeks ago i think it would have been a very different reaction you know four weeks ago we were talking about the uae and you know buying the club which i still think regardless of you know maybe wilcox would lose his job maybe he would keep his job i don't know I actually don't care about Berada, Wilcox or anybody else.

30:22If I could change the ownership tomorrow, I would do it because I think that's the only way that the club truly gets back. But I think within the parameters that they're working in, there clearly are improvements being made. The big question to you is, and the big question for me is, is with all these changes, what's the limit? Because as I said at the start, very good things being said. But even with all these things, where will it put us? Because, you know what, if we're having all these meetings and we're having weekly meetings about recruitment and what's available and, you know, we're looking at what we need to bring in and, you know, we're having all these meetings and then we go to the guy at the top and say we need these players and they go, no, computer says no.

31:04you don't get those players and if you're having all these meetings and you're saying we need to get rid of these players and they say no then you know again it's great to hear from the director of football but he's not the decision maker so they might i'm pretty sure in this summer they were saying get a midfielder they didn't get one so you're still a muppet to the you're still a puppet to the muppet at the top um and also as i said every other club's doing this liverpool are having a weekly meeting man city are having a weekly meeting chelsea are having a weekly meeting Arsenal, Brighton, everybody's having that weekly meeting.

31:36So the question is, if we are heading down the right track, where does that put us? If we keep doing this, where does it put us? It doesn't win as the league. Absolutely doesn't win as the league. Just because we're having a weekly meeting and we're talking about recruitment, it doesn't necessarily win as the league. We won't finish 15th. We should, in my opinion, get back in the Champions League. And then hopefully from the revenue of that, we can buy better players and keep doing this and gradually get ourselves back to the top of the league. But I think this is about, I think these positive changes hopefully get us in the Champions League.

32:12And then the revenue of that hopefully gives us a kick to move higher. But I look at the Arsenal journey and it's six, six years in the making and they've still not won the league and they've been doing things right for six years. I look at that. I think that this is about... I don't think there is a Man City or a Blackburn Rovers anymore. I don't think there is a club that comes in and goes, hey, we're getting everything right and we're spending money. I don't think you can do that anymore. And Blackburn didn't do it straight away. And Man City didn't do it straight away. They did it in a very short period of time, but it wasn't one season.

32:48So I think this will have limitations based on the ownership. I think Wilcox, Amorim, Omar Barada, they can do good things. They can run the club better. But I would say the limitations of that are top four until you start pumping the money in that a Chelsea does, that a Bayern Munich does, that a Real Madrid does, that a Man City does, that a Liverpool just have and an Arsenal have. That's the next step. So I think we're putting in the foundations here. I think we're hitting those open goals of let's recruit better. Let's look at our players better. Let's do this regularly. Let's change this.

33:27Let's change that. And I think those things are going to help us climb. But I think we will hit a ceiling of hopefully Champions League football. And then you've got to spend again. Because ultimately, what it really comes down to is who can collect the best set of players in the world. and we've sort of had our fingers stunned on this because some people go well we've spent a billion under the glazes and we were shit yeah but we didn't buy the best players in the world did we we've just literally spoke about that 10 minutes ago we spent a long time recruiting spending well 120 million's been spent on Sancho that's not buying the best players that's chucking money around the bin and we've done that loads of times there are people out there that when we we say we need to spend money.

34:12They go, well, you spent a billion under the glazes in 10 years and nothing happened. Yeah, because we spent it badly, you moron. Like, give me a billion again. I'm not going to go, well, I'm not going to spend it. I'd spend that billion. But if you spend, it's like wage bills. People get really, oh my God, the wage bill is massive. I don't care if we've got the biggest wage bill in the world. If we're winning the league every year, paying for top quality players is absolutely fine. Whether it's wages or signing on, it doesn't matter. I don't mind behind going out there and spending ridiculous money and ridiculous wages on ridiculous players.

34:48The problem is we've done it on shit. So that's going to need to happen at some point. We can't do this on a budget. We will have to keep... Look at what we got with Embermo. 65 million is slightly overpriced, I'd say by about 5, 10 million. But we needed that. the 5 to 10 million extra was absolutely worth it rather than not getting him. And that's something that's going to have to happen. So I would say that these changes that Wilcox talks about, they're not going to get us into the title race. First step is to get into the Champions League and then go again. While it's good to hear from Wilcox and about what the club is doing to move forward and improve, it's frustrating that it takes a run of decent form to hear from him.

35:32transparency needs to be normal yeah again the voice of reason patrick i think you're absolutely um spot on with that uh certainly um quality midfield top six or top four says ray ray i genuinely think top four is a closed shop and i know a week ago we were it was looking good because man city chelsea and liverpool had lost but in my opinion i think top four is a closed shop i think it's chelsea liverpool man city and arsenal and it should be chelsea liverpool man City and Arsenal and if we broke into there that would be incredible so fifth place for me is where I pitched Manchester United took us a decade to figure out a five-year-old uh out a five-year-old can make this why am I backing Amrim is not about short-term fix it's about building identity hopefully soon yeah look actually Seth you make a great point everything Wilcox says is almost like what we've all been saying for a decade but do we say oh it's about bloody time we can but at least it's being done um you know backing a manager instead of sacking a manager i mean who would have thought that might be an idea after sacking about four of them you think we might get four uh done that from franklin as well um thank you very much so yeah give us your thoughts on all of that um there was also uh i actually did read something um what was it about um

36:58Oh, somebody said, what about Brantwaite for Manchester United? I don't know. Look, I know Beth was talking about this the other day. I really don't get the Brantwaite thing. Like, I know Ineos really, really did like him. But I don't really get what that's all about. He would never be cheap from Everton. And in fairness, you've got Aidan Heaven, Lissandro Martinez and Luke Shaw, who can play that role. So I don't know why you'd go for Brantwaite unless it's an obsession that Ineos have. I mean, they did want him in the first place, but I think that's low priority. I also do not think that Brantwaite is a name that gets mentioned that much in the English game as a top centre-back.

37:42I think he was being mentioned two years ago, but I think nowadays you don't really hear about Brantwaite. You hear about Gehi, you hear about Konza. Nobody's clamouring for Brantwaite to be in the England squad. In fact, many people think Luke Shaw will get called up. So what does that say about Brantwake? So for me, look, I'll trust our scouts and recruitment. And if that's what they want to do, let's wait and see. But to me, I just think it's a bit like maybe we tried to go after him. Maybe it's just a bit of paper talk. Dave the Brave says, off topic, in your opinion, who will be here next season?

38:17Cobby or Amorim? It won't be both. So I'd like to say both. It's a good question, Dave, and it's a brave question. I'd like to say both, mate. I really would. And it's not beyond the realms of possibility. But right here, right now, it does feel like you might be predicting something correct, in which case it should be Amorim. I can't see how Amarim doesn't have a good season. I really can't. I think the league beyond the top four is chaotic. I think we're only playing one game a week. We have a very good squad, which is evidenced by the fact that people like Manu cannot get minutes. We should comfortably be fifth or sixth, which will...

39:05Well, I wouldn't say comfortably fifth, but we should be in the top six. We should be fifth or sixth comfortably. I'm not saying fifth comfortably. And that will be enough for him to be here next season. So if one of them is going to go, I would say it will be Maynou. But I still hope that that doesn't happen. The club are only talking now because we're in a positive bubble. Let's see if they keep talking. If things go bad, we need them to keep talking. Fair point, Mackish. Are you saying that Shaw intentionally got an injury after the Euros, says Kairi? No. No, I never said that What I said is Manchester United Luke Shaw Got injured in February We had an FA Cup final At the end of May He wasn't fit for that He went to the Euros in June Played in the Euros Came back And was injured for another few months My point was We've let this happen before Where a player's not fit for us And we let them go on international duty and then they come back from international duty and they're injured again.

40:09That's stupidity. Doesn't get spoken about enough how stupid Manchester United were to let Luke Shaw do that. Now, I don't know contractually whether their hands are tied with these players. Maybe it's in every player's contract that if you pass a fitness test, you can go and play for your international team regardless of whether you played for us. But talking about Martinez, 83 % of you are saying he shouldn't go on international duty. 83%. Only 17 % are saying yes. And I guarantee you, 99 % of you, like me, like Martinez. It's got nothing to do with Martinez. It's about what's best for Manchester United.

40:50He shouldn't be, in my opinion, going to Argentina, flying back from Argentina in a nine-day period. It's not two weeks. It's a nine-day period. He shouldn't be doing two flights to the other side of the world, playing in a competitive training session with, you know, players that are playing for World Cup spots. Let's be honest. If he gets injured in that or has a setback in that, we look absolutely stupid. So why would you take that risk? I'd just say it's come a little bit too soon, mate. You've got the March international breaks anyway. You're staying in Carrington. you know if you're worried about the intensity of training we have the state of the art facility here we can we can create those intense workouts for you and you don't need to get on a plane and risk getting injured for somebody that's not Manchester United that's what I'm saying Kai um Mario 24 says do you think top quality players will come to United do you think players would want to come here knowing the issues the club has do you feel Amirim has that pull to get top players over to us 100 % look at Lenny Oro a year ago look at Dalit look at Emberno look at Cunha look at Sesco we will always well we currently can still recruit good players um I don't expect that to be any different with Angelo Stilla Carlos Balaba wanted to come here Adam Wharton Elliot Anderson we can bring these players in that's not the barrier the barrier is who's going to write the checks that's the barrier um obviously there's that story about elliot anderson last night where you know he's a high priority player for manchester united um i've seen people mentioning january i don't see january i don't see january at all i think i think that's uh highly optimistic that january could happen because um it's um

42:52you know you'd have to overpay he's in a stable position he's playing for it look i don't think elliot anderson will come to manchester united in january anyway and i don't think forrest will sell and i don't think we would pay you'd have to pay a lot of money to get him out halfway through the season he's a starter for forrest and he is playing for england and it's a world cup year why would you go I want to go and play for Man United you go to Man United and Amrim goes I really like you but I'm going to stick with Bruno and Casemiro for a little bit and you've got to win your space and then we win a few games and he can't win his space and he's out the Man United side and then he's not in the March International breaks and then he's out the World Cup I don't see why a player needs to do that and I don't think that they will do that if I'm being completely honest I think it's I think it's more likely that that happens in the summer and financially that would be that would work for everybody a lot better.

43:49So I like Elliot Anderson, but I think it's one for the summer. So my hope is that regardless of that, we still look to do a deal in January with somebody. Certainly. Yeah. Are you going to talk about this Orozco playing in the under 17 World Cup? I mean, I don't know a lot about him. You know, honestly, I've got to be honest. I don't spend a lot of time in relation to the youth because it's not, you know, how many young players have we bought over the last six years that we don't even hear about now? This time last year, Lyon was going to take over the world and go straight into the team. He's not straight in the team yet.

44:34Same with Kone, same with Obi. Everyone gets really excited about these players. they can all still be man united first team players but it might not happen and it might not happen for a while but this is um christian orozco colombian um we signed him from colombia i think um and um he will join manchester united in the summer of 2026 so he's the captain for uh colombian under 17s and plays in the midfield and apparently he was uh fantastic uh against Germany under 17s last night. So look, you know what? At some point in the future, hopefully these players are going to burst on the scene for our first team.

45:20But I'll talk to you, as I said a few days ago, it's no point having the next potential Roy Keane or the next potential Wayne Rooney or the next potential Ryan Giggs. There's no point having that if you don't give those players what those players had. Like Roy Keane came into a midfield that had Paul Ince in it, Steve Bruce behind him, Eric Cantona, Mark Hughes. Wayne Rooney came into a team that had Paul Scholes and Ryan Giggs in it. Ryan Giggs came into a team that had Mark Hughes, etc. So bringing in these young players is a great idea, but we've got to provide a first team that, as Ronaldo said, understand what Man United's all about.

46:03Like, I don't think our leadership team is up to it. I don't. I'm hopeful that people like De Litt and Kunja and Mbermo can become that, but I certainly don't think the Luke Shaws and the Casamiros and the Brunos, I don't think they are the right sort of people for developing young players at Man United for various reasons. So recruiting young players is good, but we've got to solve the leadership problems in that team and we definitely do have those as we saw in the first 20 minutes of the second half against forest where was the leadership there you know basically when they scored the first goal we should have said right somebody in that team when we conceded the first goal should have said don't get the ball to the halfway right too quick give me the ball as the captain i'd have took the ball i'd have told everyone to come over to me while they're celebrating and i said look next five minutes let's fucking lock this down We've got to get our heads back here.

46:58We were 1-0 up at halftime. They've scored. It happens. Next five minutes, get the ball up the pitch, away from our goal, or keep possession, right? But do not, whatever we do, start being indisciplined. We've got to batter down the hatches for five minutes. And nobody ever does that. And then suddenly you're 2-1 down. Dave the Brave. I love Martinez, but with injuries, at what point do we agree he needs to go and be replaced? We are teetering on short mount absent. I think with Lissandro he's one of my favourite players at United and I think he has got the right mentality and he can step into the midfield and he'd be a very very important this system probably suits Martinez more than any player in our football club pre-signings so thinking about the team that Amorim inherited I would say Lissandro Martinez was probably the most suitable player for the system as a centre-back that likes to step into the midfield 343 suits him perfectly um so for me martinez is still a big big part of our future i do also and have said myself that we have got to be very very careful about the risk factor that he's had two significant injuries basically since 25 since he was mid-20s he's been injured and he's had two long-term injuries either of those could cause him problems for the rest of his career in other areas so there is a percentage chance that martinez never really comes back and plays properly consistently um he might not recover and be the player he was or he might recover and be the player he was but his body can't deal with it week in week out so look that that is a risk but i don't think we're at that point yet where we can start to say that that's a major concern and I'm hopeful that Martinez, look, I think Martinez is a really important player for us, which is why the recuperation has to be spot on.

48:58I don't care if he's not back for the Everton game. Like if Martinez isn't back until mid-December, he's not back till mid-December. It's fine. We don't need him to be going to Argentina to increase the intensity. Maybe we just go, it's not a bad thing that he has a couple of weeks of steady recuperation and then we'll increase it when the players come back. We don't need him for the Everton game. I think we've just got to make sure we give it every opportunity. great show this morning thank you everybody for tuning in as always really enjoyed that, nice to be in the studio not quite finished with the 10 o 'clock shows in the bedroom but today was a bit of a down day so I thought I'd be back in here and it's nice to be in here on a morning show, so there we go I am 7 o 'clock tonight again because of Champions League football and 2 o 'clock show as always Amrim's press conference tomorrow is on a Thursday again tomorrow instead of a Friday again.

50:02So we'll move Ben Jacobs to Friday. But yeah, I saw that this morning as well. So there we go. Great show, everybody. Thanks very much. Have a great day. Stay safe. Take care. And I'll speak to you later.