77. How to Turn Everyday Ideas into a $1.2M Business

0:00From a spark of inspiration to over 50 ,000 hours of outdoor adventures, Jonathan Noir turned everyday life's mundanities into the$100 ,000 a month business of procuring fishing trips. Find something that you're passionate about and go all in on it. You have to really make sure that it's something that you believe in. But once you do that, it's cliche, but sky's the limit. I think that when you learn the quickest is when you get it in the hands of others and you let them sort of break you down a little bit so that you can build back up. The growth over the past couple of years has been pretty astronomical.

0:35I'm your host, Alex Freeman. And in today's episode, we're exploring the uncharted waters of inspiration with Jonathan Newark. You'll learn how to find ideas in your daily life and how to turn them into a full-fledged business. Jonathan, thanks so much for joining us. Thanks for having me, Alex. Excited to be here. So to start us off, can you give us the overview of what Captain Experiences does and why and how you came to start the business? Yeah. So Captain Experiences is a platform for booking outdoor sports guides. So instead of calling guides, playing phone tag, waiting to hear back, you can go on the site, search by location, group size, target species, price, and more, read verified reviews, and book real-time availability with quality vetted guides.

1:14The story on founding Captain was that I was working in my hometown of Houston, Texas in oil and gas finance when the company I was working for sold. I said, hey guys, we always talk about it. Let's finally book that fishing trip. And they said, great job, Jonathan. You just nominated yourself to book a solid trip. Yeah. So from there I said, hey, Ron, how hard can it be? Grew up fishing my whole life on the upper Texas coast. I knew that booking guides was a mess. And here I was again. So I Googled Galveston fishing charters and it was that quintessential founders moment, that slap in the face where I just said, hey, if you can book an Airbnb or call an Uber, what's wrong with fishing?

1:47Oh, I love that. So you were working in not the same field before you started the business. So what did you learn from your previous work experience that helped you get the business off the ground? Yeah, I mean, I began my career in oil and gas finance. And so, you know, really very numbers driven. But I think that translated over to, you know, our work at Captain. But then, you know, the other things that I learned was just that regardless of what industry you're in or what your job title and job role are, everything really comes down to being a people driven business. And so I think that's really translated in how we've been able to build a great team here at Captain, how we interact with our adventures, how we interact with our guides, investors, you name it.

2:29You obviously have a passion for the outdoors and for the types of things that folks might find on your platform. How did that passion carry into launching and scaling the business? Yeah, I really think it came from, you know, just that sort of perspective of, hey, you know, I'm trying to book a fishing trip for myself in an ideal world. what sort of resources and tools do I need or what I love to have. And so from there, those were the initial mockups of Captain, you know, really pulled things from, you know, other sites that we thought worked well, that we admired, you know, and were applied towards other industries.

3:03And then we just said, hey, what does this look like through the lens of phishing? What does this look like for our guides on that side of the platform? And then, yeah, mocked it up, built it out, and we're off to the races. What was kind of those startup costs to build that mockup? Obviously, building out a full platform in the way that Captain works is a little bit different from launching kind of maybe a more traditional e-commerce site. So what does that investment look like both from a time and money perspective? Yeah, I mean, from a time perspective, it's tough to put a number on it, countless hours.

3:34The early days really took a lot of time to get things right. And really just, you know, it was just an incredibly steep learning curve, you know, as a non-technical founder coming from an entirely different industry, there was a lot to learn, to say the least. It It took us about a year to get the platform up and ready to launch. And then, yeah, you know, in terms of money, yeah, you know, significant investment as well. The platform is not just a simple e-commerce website. You know, phishing is a little bit tricky to automate, and that's kind of been the secret sauce of our success. So it really took a lot there as well.

4:05How did you go about tackling the learning curve? Like what resources did you turn to to learn the things you didn't know and maybe the things you didn't know that you didn't know? Yeah. Yeah. So a lot of it was just startup blogs and things like that. And then just a lot of reading, a lot of books like Peter Thiel's Zero to One and things like that can really help you get up to speed and learn the startup jargon. And then, yeah, just a lot of marketplace reading. There's a lot of great stuff by Bill Gurley, who was a partner at Benchmark, for example, a number of other resources that can help you get up to speed there.

4:37What was the process to fund the startup of the business? Did you self-finance? Did you go to outside financing, what did you do and what advice can you offer for somebody that is staring down the barrel of, I got to raise some money or come up with some money to get my own idea off the ground? Yeah. I mean, I think there it was very much sort of a crawl, walk progression. And so, you know, in the earliest days I self-funded Captain. And then, you know, from there we opened it up to friends, family, angels round, and then, you know, continued to progress and hit some of those more mature benchmarks, I guess.

5:09And then at that stage, we were able to bring on some venture capital. Now, you mentioned your own kind of aha founder moment of trying to go book your own trip. How did you then go about verifying that the idea was going to have a demand for it? You know, initially it was just doing market research and realized things like fishing is the second most participated in sport in the U.S. after walking and jogging, which is really eye opening to a lot of people, but also just sort of anecdotally meeting with a number of different friends, advisors, mentors, others that are passionate about fishing.

5:44And pretty much everyone to a T said, wow, I can't believe this doesn't exist. I would use this. I can't wait to tell my friends about this, all that good stuff. And so there was a lot of just sort of first person validation there in speaking with others. Quick reminder for our listeners, you can hear more tips from business owners on how to grow a business on our YouTube channel. Check it out. just go to youtube.com slash upflip. Jonathan, what was the biggest challenge that you faced in the startup process to get the platform off the ground? And how did you overcome that? I'd say the biggest hurdle was finding our first customers, generating a demand.

6:20You know, it's kind of like if a tree falls in the middle of the forest, does anyone really hear it? So if you build a platform, how do you get people to come to it? And so, you know, all of these two sided marketplaces face the same chicken or egg standstill. And so the way that we hacked that was we onboarded our first guides. We walked the docks in Galveston and spoke with them directly and asked them to be patient with us. And thankfully, our guides understood and answered the call. And they said, yeah, we know that these things take time. We're really rooting for a platform like this that'll help us and help drive our businesses forward.

6:53So yeah, we'll be patient with you. So from there, we had supply, we had the platform, and then it was just about driving demand. And so it was really everything under the sun, going to fishing shows and meeting people in person, driving a social media following and getting our newsletter going. And then we also landed on SEO, search engine optimization. And so if you go back to my problem statement, I googled Galveston fishing charters from my desk at work. And so we really started meeting with everyone that we could on search engine optimization, learn the ropes there. And that's now been, you know, our leading acquisition channel.

7:26What was the biggest mistake that you made during the startup process? Ooh, that's tough. You know, I'd say the biggest mistake is just that expecting that things will consistently move up into the right and do so at a very rapid pace. Sometimes that is the case, but at other points in the journey, there was a lot more legwork that had to be done. And so just trying to be patient and doing the right things versus getting desperate in trying to swing for the fences and strike out. So, you know, luckily we didn't, you know, make any of those sort of bet the farm decisions in the early days. We just kind of kept our heads down and kept plugging away.

8:01And a couple of years later, it's paid off. How did you avoid making those bet the farm decisions? Or is that something that's like unique to your personality? Did you have mentors? How were you able to avoid falling into that trap? Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, my personality is definitely to swing for the fences. So I had to sort of fight the urge there. And that's where I would say a fantastic support network comes in. And so my co-founder Addison, our head of product, we would discuss every decision and sort of walk each other off of cliffs. And so, yeah, just sort of having a balanced discussion and realizing with level setting with yourself and saying, hey, I want to do this because I'm feeling this sort of way.

8:39And that's either good and justified or, hey, let's take a step back and pause. And so I think that that's been very healthy. Now that you're up and running and out of that initial startup phase, what do you struggle with the most in the business? I'd say it's still demand. It's driving more demand. Our guides, they say that the platform is great. The app is great. It works seamlessly. It really makes their lives easier. They just wish that they would get more trips through Captain. And then, yeah, you know, on the demand side, our adventurers, as we call them, are always saying, hey, this was a fantastic experience.

9:10I I just wish that I had known about you guys sooner. So it's just trying to figure out how to scale the business on the demand side to drive awareness and spread the good word. Okay. We've asked a lot about the stressful side of it. What's the part of the business that brings you the most joy? Man, the best part about Captain is definitely, you know, reading the five-star reviews that come in. So we see those as soon as they pop into our feed. And it's just a huge rallying point for our team, you know, to see these reviews like, Hey, this was our first fishing trip and this was our big vacation of the year.

9:38We got three generations of the family out there and my grandson caught his first red fish and, you know, here's the picture. And it's a kid holding a fish twice as big as he is with a smile three times as big as he is. And that's really what makes it all worth it. And then, you know, every once in a while when we can get out ourselves, I think in starting captain, you know, we had these thoughts where we'd be fishing every day and it's not quite the case, but we still get out there every once in a while and that's really fun. Tell me about the guides. How do you get the guides onto the platform?

10:07How do you find them? Is there a vetting process to make sure that they're going to give the top captain experience that you want your customers to have? Yeah, definitely. So we take the vetting of our guides very seriously. And our senior guide onboarding manager, David, who I joke has everyone's dream job, which is to call fishing guides and talk fishing all day. And that's exactly what he does. So David reaches out to all of our guides and we know them all on a first name basis. But, you know, David speaks with each of them before they go live on the site to really deeply understand their trips, the ins and outs of what makes them unique, what kind of fish they catch, what kind of boat they're operating on, what kind of gear they're running with, all those sorts of things.

10:44things, X's and O's, but also, you know, Hey, do you consider yourself a coach? Are you good with taking kids or beginners, or do you really specialize with experts in teaching them a new technique or whatever it may be? So yeah, you know, we vet all of our guides and, you know, we require that they upload a certain documentation for the specific trips that they're running. And then, yeah, you know, we continue to monitor our guides for quality through the reviews that they're earning. And I'm proud to say that, yeah, after thousands of trips, you know, our average review score is 4.9 out of five stars.

11:16Wow. And are you guys actively doing outreach to guides as you see them kind of pop up in the areas? Or is there like a marketing component to the guides where that you're maybe running an acquisition type strategy? How does that work? Yeah. So we look for new guides popping up and monitor that sort of thing ourselves, but there really is no marketing or anything like that at this stage. What we have seen actually is that a number of our existing guides are referring their buddies to the platform. So, So, you know, if there's a guy leaving out of Clearwater, Florida, and his buddy in the slip next to him at the docks is not getting many trips, and this captain that's partnered with us is leaving the docks every day, his buddy might say, hey, you know, what's your secret?

11:55And he'll say, oh, you got to get listed with these captain experiences, guys. So from there, we sort of grow through that referral loop. And then, yeah, you know, as we've scaled the demand side, we're seeing those initiatives, you know, get in front of guides who sign up on the supply side as well. So it's really sort of a double whammy, if you will. This is going to bring us to a section of the show that we call our Fan Blitz questions. These questions come from our YouTube community. Listeners, you can go join that community by going to youtube.com slash upflip and post questions to future podcast guests.

12:25So Jonathan, we've got five questions we're going to try and do in about a minute. Are you ready? Let's do it. All right. First, what's the biggest misconception people have about your job? That I'm fishing, having fun every day. Why would someone not do what you're doing? They're not passionate about it. I mean, I think you really need a lot of passion to get through those dark spots and really put in, you know, the legwork that launching a two sided marketplace necessitates. So I would just say, make sure that you are really honest with yourself and honest about the passion you have for whatever you're jumping into.

12:54If you had to come up with a slogan for the year 2023, what would it be? Oh, man, get out there. Go fishing. Do you have a few words of wisdom for your haters? Oh, for the haters. I don't know. I guess I'd say don't doubt us. We're coming. Okay, this one's just for me. It's not for any of the listeners. Tell me one secret of business which will make me a billionaire. Oh, man. I wish I had that one. Yeah, let's see. I don't know. I would just say prioritization, really focusing on the most important thing at that point in time. Hey, we did it. Those are the Famblitz questions. Listeners, let us know what you think of this episode by reviewing it on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen.

13:34Jonathan, I want to talk about that demand side now. Let's go back to the beginning. How did you get your first customers onto the platform? Yeah, I mean, the first customers were really just friends, you know, from our immediate network. You know, I remember my buddy Eric was headed down to a trip in Tulum and knew that I was starting this platform. And so that was our very first trip. And yeah, they got out there. They caught some mahi-mahi, had a great time. From there, I think our second customer was Mark, you know, down in Houston. We met at the Houston Fishing Show and I tracked him down in the halls and said, hey, you know, I know that you were asking about an overnight tuna trip.

14:07We have that exact trip and his eyes lit up and said, let's do it. And we got him booked up out there with Captain Lee. And yeah, from all accounts, it was an amazing trip for them. So those were two initial stories off the bat. So from those early days, what marketing strategies have you found to be the most effective to grow the customer base? Yeah. In terms of growth, I would definitely point to search engine optimization. That's really been our winning ticket. That's where you can really find adventurers that are really looking for a trip and looking for it in the near term and looking for a solution like Captain to make it all easy for them.

14:40Not that I want to open up the can of worms of SEO fully into this because we could be here for hours talking about SEO. But what tips do you have for making sure that someone's maximizing the value of the SEO strategy? Yeah, I mean, what I would say is that to us and to most in the SEO community, I think it really comes down to three buckets. It's technical, you know, so making sure that your site is structured correctly for Google. And then the other piece is content that you have engaging content on those pages. And then there's also the offsite work and backlink outreach, digital PR, that sort of thing.

15:13And so we've worked really hard across those three frontiers. And what I would say is that everyone on the team at Captain is focused on SEO in one way or another. Obviously, our product team is working on the technical pieces. Our marketing team is working on content and PR. But then even, you know, David, for example, our guide onboarding manager is setting up guides, trip listings and things in a way that allows them to rank and gain more visibility. Are you doing any paid advertising? I mean, obviously, like content is not free to produce, but are you doing any like pay-per-click or social advertising along with the content side and SEO?

15:48Yeah, we're doing some across both social and paid search. What kind of strategies are you utilizing in those areas that you might advise for an online startup? I would say across the board in both and especially in social, you know, really focus on quality, engaging, scroll stopping content. And I think, you know, what we're doing at Captain naturally lends itself to that sort of thing. Everyone wants to see an awesome video of a fishing trip and, you know, chasing big fish and catching big fish and that sort of thing. And all the smiles and joy that that brings people. And then, yeah, on the search side, I think that it's important to focus on, you know, unit economics and not getting over your skis there.

16:24How would you describe the Captain Experience brand and how did you go about developing that brand identity? Was it overly concerted or kind of developed naturally? I would say a little bit of both. So, you know, I think that it developed naturally in the early days. And then, you know, once you really have an understanding of, you know, what you stand for and, you know, how you'd like to be viewed and really what's most important to you, your customers. So for us, our adventurers and our guides, you know, at that stage, it's important to sort of put pen to paper and put a stamp on it. And so I think that's what we've done with Captain.

16:59You know, our mission is to unlock the outdoors and everything really that we do goes back to unlocking the outdoors and making it easy for our adventurers to get out there with our damn good guides, as we like to say. Now, someone's listening to this and they say, I've got this great hobby or activity that I love to go do. There's not a platform like this. I want to go start it. what are the key systems or SOPs that they should set up from the beginning to make sure they can run the business effectively? Yeah, I would say, first off, it's important not to go overboard with SOPs in the early days.

17:30Obviously, you want to know how much you're spending and how much you're growing and all of that good stuff. But really, I think it just comes down to validation. So really speaking with customers and making sure that you're on the right path and pivoting when you need to and that sort of thing. And then, yeah, you know, just get it out in public. You know, I think a lot of people spend a lot of time building and building and going heads down. But I think that when you learn the quickest is when you get it in the hands of others and you let them sort of break you down a little bit so that you can build back up.

18:00We talked a little bit about startup expenses. What are the ongoing expenses for this kind of business? You know, I mean, obviously we have a team here. So we're a small but mighty team of eight people. Now we've got a little office space over here on the east side of Austin. You know, otherwise it's a pretty lean business model. We really don't have many fixed costs. We're not investing in inventory or anything like that as an experiences platform. Can you give us a rough idea of what the margins kind of look like in this type of business? I'd say at our early stage, the margins are not all that profitable in terms of how we're looking to grow the business.

18:33We're just getting started with fishing and our vision is to be the top of mind platform across all outdoor sports and geographies. So that's what I would kind of say there. What did revenue look like the first year in business and what kind of revenue goals are you looking at for 2023? How do those compare? In the first year of Captain, I think, you know, thinking back, I think our revenue was like$10 ,000 or something across the year. So yeah, you know, pretty slim, but that's what it takes. And it's a lot of investment in terms of time and money. And yeah, now, you know, I think we're doing exponentially better to say the least.

19:05So the growth over the past couple of years has been pretty astronomical. What do you think is the biggest factor in that revenue growth? I think it's really just order of operations and really thinking about things the right way and marketplace strategy. So, you know, like I said, all marketplaces face the chicken or egg standstill in the early days. I think we conquered that. But then on an ongoing basis really comes down to marketplace liquidity. And so what I mean by that is balancing supply and demand on the marketplace and not having gaps where, you know, demand can't find supply and that sort of thing.

19:36And so the example I give there is we said, hey, we're going to build the top of mind platform across all outdoor sports and geographies with captain. But we're just getting started with fishing because if we had started with fishing, rock climbing, rafting, that sort of thing, we might spread ourselves too thin. And then if someone's in a specific market looking for a mountain biking guide, but we only have fishing guides or rafting guides, well, then they fall through the cracks. So rather than building a platform that is nothing to a lot of people, we're building a platform that's something to a few people and growing from there.

20:08All right. So you are in the midst of scaling. You have scaled to a certain extent, probably have further scaling that you'd like to do. But with that eye of expertise, what's the best way to scale an experience platform? Yeah, I mean, I'd say it's exactly that. It's focusing on the liquidity piece and really going sort of step by step. So, you know, for us the past couple of years, we've been focused exclusively on fishing. And so year one, it was fishing in Galveston, Texas. And then we expanded down the Texas coast and said, Hey, if you're looking for a fly fishing trip for redfish, we'll have options for you.

20:41If you're looking for an overnight tuna trip, we've got a number of options for you and anything in between, you know, we're not going to focus on Florida. We're going to do a really good job of that in Texas. And then from there, we expanded across the Southeast over to Florida. And then, you know, last year we expanded up the East Coast. And this year we're coast to coast across the U.S. with a number of international destinations as well. And then we also plan to expand a bit deeper into hunting this season. So I think that it's really about liquidity and making sure that you're not biting off more than you can chew.

21:10Sort of related to that, what is a mistake that either you've made or seen other people make when scaling an online business and what should they do instead? I'd say it's trying to swing for the fences and hit those grand slams. So I think that takes a variety of shapes. You could really try to spend a lot on brand or spend a lot on content or these crazy things that a lot of brands in the past that have sort of fallen by the wayside have done. So I think that you just have to understand that there's a time and place for everything. And in the early stages, you really just have to go heads down and think about just building a great business from the inside out instead of trying to skip a couple chapters for a big win.

21:50It was really just a drop in the pan. You've already made mention of your team at Captain. So I'm curious how you knew when it was time to expand the team and how did you go about finding the right people to join? That's a great question. So in the early days, it was just Addison and myself as co-founders. So we were doing everything. And I think from there, that was great for the stage that we were at, we learned every single thing that goes into building Captain. I never rolled up my sleeves and got in the code. He definitely did and spent countless hours there. And so from there, yeah, it's just saying, hey, what is the number one need?