90. The Six Figure Side Hustle: Furniture Flipping 101

0:00Jennifer Beck, once at the pinnacle of corporate success, now channels her passion into the world of furniture flipping. Take$20, go to a thrift store somewhere, pick up something that's a good quality, but a low cost. Usually we make around$12 ,000 revenue each month. And believe it or not, this number is probably going to surprise you. Make sure you're providing content that your followers want or need to see. Don't be throwing something out there just because it's what you like. It needs to be consistent with what your followers want and it needs to be of good quality. You can't fail as a business owner if you don't stop trying.

0:39I'm your host, Alex Freeman, and on the Upflip podcast, you get to learn how great businesses are built, how they are run behind the scenes, and how you can replicate their success. And today, we're about to discover the art of turning worn-out furniture into gold. Jennifer, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for joining us. Oh, absolutely. I'm happy to have any opportunity that I can to talk about making money and then also my love of design. So this is great. I love it. I love it. So let's dive into it by kind of starting with when and why did you decide to start a furniture flipping business?

1:11Absolutely. Well, I never had any intentions of doing so. But in 2019, I was at the top of the sales ladder with a billion dollar furniture company, retail sales, you know, the whole game of the rat race. But what a lot of people don't talk about is that the mental stress of being in that type of environment can lead to burnout so quickly. So after just going through just your regular, you know, trial and error issues and having some transition with company ownership and so on and so forth, I just told myself, I was like, if I'm going to do anything else in my life, I'm only going to invest the time and energy that I have for this company into myself.

1:50And from that point, that is where Saved by Design was born. And we'll definitely delve more into that. But it really was just a necessity for me to find an escape from the corporate rat race. I'm interested there because like you describing it as a necessity, did that help you to overcome the fear of kind of stepping out of the corporate world and into the small business world? Yeah, absolutely it did, because I feel that if I had not had that pressure of having to find something that gave me some relief with the mental stress, I think it would have been a lot more hesitation for me. But again, the word necessity is so key here is that it became necessary for me to find a different option.

2:31And if you're ever in a situation like that with anything in life, you just find that the need to make a change overcomes the fear. So it just drowns all of the hesitation and all of the doubts that you have. And you just go for it and you just, you know, take a leap. And usually it works. What kind of planning did you do so that you could hit the ground running? I'm glad you asked that. I didn't. Honestly, I know that sounds crazy, but I didn't. Mainly what I had done is over the years, one thing I did know is that I didn't want to be in that situation forever. I didn't want to be in that corporate world forever.

3:06So the number one key for me, and this applies to all areas in my life, was financial freedom. So I have always lived on a budget and lived very frugal on all of my investments and all of my spending, which allowed me to have a really well-built nest egg that I knew that whatever I decided to do, I could take that step and not have to worry about whether my house was going to be paid for or whether my lights were going to be on that allowed me that freedom to do so. As far as planning for the business, I can truthfully say I did not put enough planning into it prior. Thankfully, it worked out.

3:40I've been blessed. I've done a lot of praying about that. But truly, the biggest thing for me was knowing that I had the financial ability to take that risk. And I believe that applies to all areas in life opposed to just business related. Yes, certainly having the financial freedom to pursue something that you're passionate about without kind of the it's got to make money from day one pressures. Exactly. That that made all the difference for me was I went into it and I said, you know, I feel like this can work. But I also didn't have that added stress of saying, well, it has to make, you know, X amount of dollars by this date and so on and so forth.

4:17So I think that in any aspect, especially though when you're starting a small business, is don't let there be so much financial stress that it encourages you to make poor decisions based on that. And so building from that place of passion, I guess, begs the question of where does your passion for furniture restoration come from? Oh, absolutely. So I felt like there was a point where I needed to find something that I was good at. You know, there's the old saying, you find something you're good at, something that you love, and then something that people are willing to pay you for. Then that's the sweet spot.

4:46So I knew that I had a love of history and antiques and I knew I was great at sales. And then I knew that I enjoyed like DIY around the house. You know, I had dabbled here and there. And I said, there has to be a way to combine these things. And I started doing a little bit of research online and I noticed that I had seen some people flipping furniture and they seem to be making a decent income at it. And I said, well, you know, I think I can do that, but I think I can improve that as well. Because unfortunately, so often when you find businesses that are in this industry of furniture flipping, they only focus on that portion.

5:20They don't bring in the marketing and sales background with it. And you really need that to be able to bring in that extra boost in the income. And having my passion for sales and customer service, which is a weird passion to have, but I do. And then also knowing that I could bring that design aspect into it. I wasn't great at it at the time, but as I decided that that's what I wanted to do, I was really able to grow and learn. And then it developed into a passion for me. At this point, I could talk about design all day long. So it was more, again, something out of necessity that I allowed to grow and blossom into what it is now.

5:54And it's my understanding that the company operates as a mother-daughter duo. Can you talk about the pros and cons of being in business with family? Yes, absolutely. It's not something that I would say is an ideal situation for everyone, But the pros are we know each other so well. We know what the other person is going to do. We know what to expect, not what to expect from them. And we know that we have a similar work ethic, which plays well together. But there are some boundaries you need to put in place to have a healthy working relationship, whether it be with family or with a close friend.

6:28You know, you have to say, you know, have that discussion up front about what you expect financially and what you expect as far as responsibilities from each person. And by having those conversations with each other up front, you can avoid a lot of issues that you could run into when it's too late. You have to make sure that you both are on the same page of saying, you know, we realize that when we're here and we're doing this, this is business. This is not personal. And we cannot allow those things to get in the mix and mud up all of those things. How successful are you at doing that? I can honestly say it has done very well for us.

7:03But again, I don't know that it would be successful for everyone. It's just our personalities. We both are more introverts. So we respect each other's space. When we are not at work, we give each other plenty of room. We don't talk on the phone every day or anything like that. That way we can have a break from each other because with anyone, whether it's a co-worker or a family member, anyone. When you're around each other too much, you can start to nitpick a little bit at little things that'll drive you crazy. But I think overall, honestly, it's worked really well. And I was hesitant about that, but almost five years in, and I can honestly say we've had no major disagreements because we addressed all of that stuff up front before we even got into it.

7:45I think that's a key part. Looking back at the early days of the business, what was the most difficult part of getting it started? And how did you overcome that difficulty? I think that's an excellent question. My difficulty was in not being educated enough in all the legal aspects of owning a business and also me never wanting to ask for help. So that came down to me just diving in and educating myself as much as I could and reading everything that I could possibly find about the ins and outs of just owning a small business itself. And I think that when I finally took the step to reach out to people that I trusted and valued their opinion on and allowed a little bit of control to be released from myself and get inputs from other people, I think that was really where I was able to overcome that.

8:33And I think it's important for anyone that's considering this to know that no matter how much you do know or don't know, we all need a support system. And whenever you release that little bit of control, you'll find that the success will flow much smoother for you. How would you describe your own mindset as a business owner? You obviously sitting in this interview, you seem very positive, bright, energetic. And so I'm just curious if that carries through in the business owner and if that's how you kind of see yourself. I do think it does a little bit because also there's kind of two aspects here.

9:06The one aspect is I am a very reliable person. So I feel like that has carried through with success for the business. But also I try not to sweat the small things. I am a very it is what it is type of person. So I try not to focus in on my new day to day problems that will not make a difference in the big picture and just let it go. and I may just go home and I may be stressed like every other person, but I'll just sit down, I'll meditate on it a little bit. I'll just say a prayer and I literally just let it go. And it has taken me a while to get to that point. But I do think that that has allowed me to focus on the big picture of the business and not let the small things get you down.

9:49Because you can't fail as a business owner if you don't stop trying. But if at any point you let those daily stresses get to you and take you down, it's going to distract you from the big picture. And so I think just having that mentality of, you know, it is what it is, you know, we're just going to go with the flow, then I think that has helped to lead to a more successful business for us. Hey, Upflip Podcast listeners, if you want to hear more stories on how companies are built and what it takes to grow at a particular market, you got to check out Found and Equity from the TechCrunch Podcast Network.

10:21Found takes a peek behind the scenes of building a company with first-hand accounts from founders themselves. Every Tuesday, Becca Skutak and Don Midori Davis chat with a founder about their journey from ideation to launch. Equity will keep you up to date on the world of startups, technology, and venture capital with news rundowns and expert interviews led by co-hosts Alex Wilhelm and Marianne Azevedo. Equity drops every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, so if you're not sure where to jump in, check out episode 704. Yeah, but is that venture backable? Tune in at techcrunch.com slash podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

10:53Jennifer, I want to kind of get into some like nuts and bolts for our listeners here. If somebody is listening and saying, man, I want to start flipping furniture, what were kind of the startup costs for saved by design and what kind of startup expenses should people budget for if they're looking to get started? I do want to preface this by saying I'm a little bit old school. I do things out of the norm because most people would say, OK, I need to get a business loan or I need to make this initial investment, so on and so forth. But again, like I mentioned earlier, I operate on a debt-free mindset.

11:22So for us, our initial cost was relatively low. I would truthfully say we invested less than$1 ,000. I would have to go back and really look, but I would say it was less than$1 ,000 because our thought was we're going to use what we already have. So we went around and we, this sounds crazy, but we talked to family and friends. We're like, you know, if you have any old tools that we could use that you don't mind getting rid of, anything like that, A lot of our first tools that we used, we sourced either by thrifting or by having them gifted to us. And I don't mean brand new things. I mean, you know, we started with the basics.

11:57I think it's very important for people that are starting in furniture flipping to remember to start with the basics. You do not have to have the latest saws. You don't have to have the latest products that you see advertised on any social media influencer page. You really need to focus on your skill set. I think it's entirely possible for someone to take$1 ,000, make a few small investments and start from there and build their way up. What we did was after we just started with those, you know, those gifted items and sourcing things that we already have, and we were working in our living room. So that's something to keep in mind.

12:32We didn't go out and rent a space or anything like that. But we also at that point would take our profit and we would take 50 % of that profit and invest it into other tools that we needed to add to our supplies. And that allowed us to invest each month into new tools without going into debt for those things. Of course, that did cut into how much profit we made early on. But for us, that's what worked best. Again, that goes back to us having that nest egg door. We knew our bills were going to be paid and we could build this in a way that we weren't committed to something with a lot of loans or credit cards or anything like that.

13:09Why is the debt free model so important to you as a business owner? I think that's I'm going to share a little bit of personal information with you here. So I am in my mid-30s now. When I was 20 years old, it was in, if anyone's familiar with like 2008 and the whole recession and all that stuff, I decided to buy a home completely unaware of what I was doing and had no business doing that. Long story short, I ended up filing bankruptcy at 22 and I told myself, I will never be here again. I will never be in this position or have this stress or be dependent on anyone again. And from that point, which I was going to mention anyways, I adapted the financial peace mindset by Dave Ramsey.

13:53I'm sure you've probably heard about that. And it just became a lifestyle for me because I never wanted to have my success be dependent on a bank or an investor or anything like that. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, but for my small business and my lifestyle, that was no longer an option. So I always wanted to make sure that my financial security was dependent on me. So it's just truly a mindset for me. A lot of the entrepreneurs that we talk to as we get to kind of like the growth conversation, obviously there's usually debt financing, some kind of credit wrapped up into that.

14:29How have you been able to grow the business while maintaining that kind of debt-free mindset? Two things. So first of all, we handle our business the same way we do just our regular everyday life and we are frugal with what we spend. We won't spend extra on areas that are not necessary. Where we will spend money is in the supplies that we put into the pieces we sell so that we're able to provide a better quality and therefore make more money when we do those. But also, we always adapted that mindset of where we were originally, you know, taking 50 % of our profit and putting that back into the business.

15:03We have toned that down to about 10 % each month. That has allowed us each month to grow in our supplies and to always make sure that we're investing where we need to, but that investment is coming from the profit. We never dig into our pockets, ever. That is not something we ever have to do. And again, it is a conscious decision and mindset. I'm not saying that it's for everyone, but it is possible if everyone wants to take that route to have a business without having debt. It really is. And I think that is something that I could never preach enough, but it is about being frugal and making smart choices and avoiding all of the so-called bells and whistles.

15:44Were you profitable right away? We were actually not by much, but we were profitable our very first month in business. We were profitable and we just said, you know, we're just going to say a prayer about this. And if we continue to be profitable each month, we'll know that this is what we're supposed to be doing. And if it's not, we'll figure out something else. And every single month since we started almost five years ago, we have been profitable. And of course, that profit has grown significantly as we worked through trial and error, what did work and what didn't work and what made more money and what made less money.

16:16The key to that was finding a higher quality client for sure. But yes, we have been profitable every single month since we started. Congratulations on that. Thank you. It's a huge achievement. What are the typical revenues in a month today? And what are the sort of average margins that you're seeing on that revenue? So right now, and of course, this is just based on a typical month. Holidays, of course, are usually more. But usually we make around$12 ,000 revenue each month. And believe it or not, this number is probably going to surprise you. Our profit margins are usually around 80%. So it's yes.

16:50And that's again, that's what I mean about being frugal. So there are going to be things that we could invest in that could make our job easier, but it's not worth it when we put it on paper to make those investments where we can be making more profit if we just put a little more effort in with our physical work. So, but I would say that it really can surprise people the profit margins you can make off of furniture flipping as long as you're willing to be a little more frugal with what you spend and put a little bit more time into it. And what are the ongoing expenses for furniture flipping business?

17:23I would say ongoing is going to be mostly focused on just your basic supplies. So your paints, your stains, top coat, stuff like that, hardware, drawer liners. It's just mainly your supplies that's going into each piece. All of your main tools, your saws, your sanders, your sprayers, your spray tents, all of that stuff, those were more initial investments that you don't really have to worry about and they last you for years. It's all going to be about the supplies. And then the one big thing is the furniture itself, finding the pieces that you want to invest in. That's probably where we invest more money than even on our supplies because we seek out quality products.

17:59One of the things that a lot of small businesses struggle with is finding that first customer. How did you find yours? Hello. Like I said earlier, I'm old school. So I, and in my sales background, I will never downplay the importance of word of mouth. So I think whether you're in real estate or whether you're in banking, it does not matter. You always need to rely on the relationships you already have in place. So your friends and families, your, you know, coworkers, whatever that may be, spread the word by word of mouth first. I believe our very first customer found out about us from a friend that they worked with.

18:34That was our very first sale we ever made. And then, of course, we also opened up some social media pages and we had to go through trial and error on how to operate those the most efficiently. But word of mouth is still to this day our biggest referral point. And most of those word of mouth referrals come from return plots. I'm actually really excited to ask you about this because not just your work with Saved by Design, but your career before. What advice do you have to build those relationships in a way that people then want to go tell other people about your company? I have said this for years and it actually took me a while when I was in my previous career about trying to understand what I was doing that was so different from some of the other sales reps.

19:14And then I finally realized it is the most simple answer in the world. It's follow through. When you get clients and you tell them you're going to do something, do it. Always make sure that you are building a genuine, trusting relationship with those clients and under-promise and over-deliver. It's that simple. Clients just want to keep coming back to someone they know they can trust and that they know is going to be there, that they're not a fly by night business. When you can establish with someone that they can believe what you say, everything that comes out of your mouth, and they know that you're going to be honest with them, whether it is good or bad news, they will continue to come back to you always.

19:53Like that is always where I got most of this and this was from return clients. And I tell people that all the time, do not focus on just making one sale. You need to focus on getting that client, building a relationship with them because that is where it's going to continue to come from over the years. Who's the ideal client now for Saved by Design? For us now, we focus on what I would describe as a high quality client. We want someone that appreciates design, appreciates history, and is more worried about quality as opposed to cost. So we do, like when we do all of our listings and everything, we target our pictures, we target our descriptions on the pieces, and then we target where we list on the demographics we're looking for.

20:35We want someone that has more of a disposable income. And whenever you do that, you get a higher quality client. And we also raised our prices to get that higher quality client. I want to touch on that really quickly because it's so important and I have conversations with other flippers all the time about this and encourage them whenever you price too low and you show your audience that you undervalue yourself, they are going to undervalue you. So by raising those costs a little bit, I'm not saying just rip people off, but by raising those costs to reflect the quality that you're providing, you're going to get a higher quality client that way.

21:10So that's something for everyone listening to remember, but I do. I focus mainly on demographics and I target someone that I know is going to be more concerned about quality as opposed to cost. I am not targeting a budget hunter. I am a budgeter, but I'm not targeting myself. I want someone that's not so concerned about that. This is going to bring us to a portion of the show that we call our Fan Blitz questions. These questions come from our YouTube community. Listeners, you can join that community by going to youtube.com slash upflip and post questions to future podcast guests. Jennifer, I've got five questions we're going to try and do in about a minute.

21:44Okay. All right, here we go. This one from Tony. How long can it take to start profiting in a furniture business? I would say at least a year. I would say at least a year to get full-time profit. But if you were not financially able to make that step the way I did and go all in at once, start it as a part-time gig and do that for at least a year before you're going to see real profit. MPF would like to know, how do you stay on trend? Oh, that's easy. I research the current trends of the major retailers each season. So all your big box stores. And then I also rely heavily on feedback that I get from clients and what they're searching for.

22:19Carlos would like to know, do you have training available? I do not. I do not have a designated training course. However, on our Instagram, we address a lot of the common techniques that are requested on all of our reels. Savant Moore, posing a question that we have touched on quite a bit, but I'm curious to hear a little bit more about it as well. So how do you run a business in a society that preaches using leverage? Oh, it's mindset. It's absolutely, it's a choice you have to make up front and set your mind to that and tell yourself you're not going to take the easy way out and that you are not going to be influenced by others' opinions.

22:53Simple. Last one here from Zeno Craft. How do you find out that your idea is worthy and trustworthy? Well, honestly, I just go off of my gut. And I know that sounds crazy, but I trust myself. I trust that if I feel that it's something that needs to be out there, then others are going to find that need as well. That is going to do it for the FanBlitz questions. Listeners, you can find more advice for how to start a business the right way on the UpFlip hub at upflip.com slash learn. Jennifer, a few more questions here for me. How does social media factor into your engagement with customers and marketing strategy?

23:28I would say at this point, it's a huge platform for us because we utilize Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, all of those things, Instagram being what we use most because we find that we get the most engagement from there. But I think in our world, I mentioned earlier about word of mouth. It's important to know that word of mouth is now often through social media. It's through shares from friends and comments and such. So we just treat that as if it would be a community if we were engaging with people in person. It is a huge necessity for us at this point to reach everyone all at once. And how did you go about building that following on those social channels?