99. His Guide to Selling High Ticket Items Online

0:00A near-death experience set Ryan Dewey on a path of self-discovery. From the jungles of the Amazon, the serenity of float tanks, and ultimately the creation of$5 ,000 plunge baths. The product, it speaks for itself. Majority of the reviews have a statement about how this is changing their life. We identified around 20 people that we thought were highly influential in the health and wellness fitness space. We felt if we can get our product in their hands in a certain time frame, it'll feel like we're everywhere and kind of at the forefront with everyone. We have grown so quickly and it's awesome.

0:35That's the challenge every business owner, entrepreneur wants to have. I'm your host, Alex Freeman, and I'm here on the Upflip podcast with the entrepreneur making cold plunges as common as your morning brew. Join us as we uncover the secrets behind Plunge's success in creating and selling premium products. Ryan, thanks so much for joining us. I loved that intro, man. Glad to be here. It was awesome. So to get things started, can you just share your story and how and when you started Plunge? Yeah. So the genesis of Plunge, I really actually trace it to when Mike and I first met. So Mike and I met in 2015.

1:08We were both opening brick and mortar float therapy spas in Northern California. He was opening in the Bay Area. I was opening in Sacramento and it's very niche business. And I'd seen this guy opening it and I was opening one. I was like, oh, I got to meet this guy. So I walked in right first month he had opened in San Francisco. I walked in and said, hey, we're going to be friends. And we became fast buds. We weren't business partners, but we just got really close and bounced a lot of business stuff off each other. Fast forward, 2020, pandemic, March, everything happens, March 2020, and our businesses are shut down.

1:37So it gave us this very unique moment in time. And Mike was the one that really initially ran with that into developing a cold plunge. And it started, this was a passion of ours, like the question, how did I get into it? I first learned of cold plunging back in around probably 2014, like from an actual, in this way that we view it now. Of course, I was getting an ice baths stuff back with sports and things like that. But it wasn't quite the perspective I have on it now. Anyways, learned of it through Wim Hof and the work that he was doing. So I was doing it super passionately. Same with Mike. Mike had the chest freezer.

2:08I was local rivers. I had created a trade program with our business and a local business that had a cold plunge that was literally for me, for our employees, but I was in every day of the week. And so Mike starts developing this product. He comes to me and says, hey, you want to create a business around this? We saw a gap in the market and it took me a couple months to kind of see his iteration of the product. He's very product focused and saw the improvements and that was really the genesis of it. We both loved it. We knew we had an email list from our float centers to be like, hey, the plan was we'll build 20 of these and we'll hand deliver to your homes.

2:40This is what we've been working on during the pandemic. Who's interested? And from there it was just taking those steps and then kind of the rest is history. I think the place I want to start following up there is with your experience starting with a co-founder where maybe previously you hadn't done that. What was the experience like of kind of starting the partnership? And how did you know that it was gonna be a fruitful partnership? That's why I always start with the story of when we first met, because we met on the grounds of friendship and we built our friendship for five years. Little did we know we were building our business partnership.

3:12So there was never any intention of going into business together. We did a big fundraiser in 2018 for MAPS, the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies. We did a fundraiser through Floating. national fundraiser to donate to maps. That was our first time really like working together, saw each other, how each other worked, really acknowledged, respected each other. So I say all that is when we finally committed to launching Plunge, it was, you know, the fastest thing I've ever been a part of. It was like all the seeds have been planted and nurtured and total, like I didn't, I didn't have any doubts in his character and how he operated.

3:49I think the thing that we did potentially get, like there was some luck involved that it just worked out so well was our skill sets. Like our skill sets, we didn't quite realize were very different into, like we co-CEO the company. It's a very rare thing. I can't envision it doing anything else, but it's very easily delineated. He's product, he's things, I'm people. And it buckets very simply throughout that. So for us as co-founders, I did it solo. It's definitely one of the most lonely journeys you can do. And there's, yeah, you get to make every decision, but at the scale that we're going at now, I can't imagine making every decision by myself.

4:25And I tip my cap to every CEO that doesn't have a co-CEO. And it's been instrumental. It's one of our superpowers with the company is how him and I run it. Now, for our listeners who are like, I've got a friend I could go into business with, you know, you mentioned the luck of your skillsets kind of delineating very perfectly for yourselves. I guess, what advice can you offer for somebody that's like got a friend that they think they can go into business with, how should they structure and build that business side of the relationship? Very clear in your roles, like find out what each other really loves to do.

4:56And then where there's crossover of what you both really love to do, like you need to create boundaries there. Like our crossover tends to come into marketing, a bit of design. So those are the worlds that there's usually a little give or take, or we'll have our pushback with each other. But we know that that's kind of where it comes up. Outside of that, it's very, if I have a strong opinion, he's usually relinquishes and says, hey, run with that. I trust you. Vice versa. Above all, again, the skill set thing can be worked out. But above all, do you trust the character and integrity? And I mean like fully trust.

5:31Like there's not a 1 % like, hey, is something going on that I'm not aware of? Like, is it, are you comfortable saying everything to each other? And if that's a yes, it's a really good potential for a good business partner. Now, I just want to ask about how your experience with the float business helped you as you got Plunge started. How did that experience kind of prepare you to enter into the world of like actually building out and selling the equipment? I think from actual business learnings, not much. They are such different businesses. One's a service brick and mortar. One's a online product business.

6:07So very different like processes and systems in place. What I did learn, opening the float center was one of the hardest things I've ever done. So just the endurance of raising money and getting contractors and getting it across the finish line, knowing I can do it, I think, which doesn't have to be just from another business. We can do hard things and learn our capabilities through many things. But that, I think, was number one. Number two, it's how we got our first customers. We emailed those businesses and said, hey, who wants to buy a cold plunge? And they were crossover type customers, people that are going to a float or they're into floating, good chance they're into cold plunging as well.

6:44So I think that was like, it was an entry into getting our first consumers. And secondly, it's like, there are worlds that I'm very passionate about. I'm passionate about health and wellness. Not just passionate, it's just my lifestyle. So I think that's been a big thing of like, It's not a trend that I get into and I'm like, oh, this is hot. I'm going to hop into this. It's like, no, I do this for a while. And I'm like, oh, no, I love this. I want to get this out to more people. How do I do that? So I think that model from floating carried over to plunge. And your entrepreneurial journey started with a near-death experience.

7:18Can you talk us through how that experience changed your mindset and kind of set you down the entrepreneurial path? That experience accelerated my life. And what I mean by that is I never quite viewed myself as like an entrepreneurial person. I think I was just more of like, if I wanted to go after something, I would go after it. But that brought me such to the forefront of like, where am I not going after something that I'm kind of kicking the can? I feel young. I could do this later on in life. And I think that was the laying in that hospital bed for the few weeks that I was. It was like, what do you want to do right now?

7:52Like, you know, just that beautiful, shaken experience. It's like tomorrow is not given. this is truly you know it's like the momentum of life kind of gets shaken from me and so i think that was that and for me it was at the time it wasn't even really starting a company it was i really wanted to go to the jungles of the amazon and drink ayahuasca like this is back in 2012 2013 i didn't know anyone that had done it i had heard a couple people and i was so curious to go explore the depths of kind of myself like what is spirituality to me like who am i as a person very deep questions. And that experience just seemed like such an adventure that I would do later in life.

8:32And it just was like, nope, I'm doing that now. And that was just one of the pieces upon this journey of entrepreneurship. Going to the jungle, I thought I was going to go to the jungle and I was going to have this experience of like, you need to quit your job and you need to go start the float center. And it was the exact opposite. I get to the jungle, I was like, stop worrying about that. We have a lot of other things to be working on with yourself right now. And so went through that process. And then that ultimately sped me up to feel capable and feel confident enough to go launch my own company.

9:01I feel like it was more out of a mission. It was like, there was like a selfishness of when I wanted to go start Capital Floats was one was I wanted to be around people that floated all the time. And I didn't quite have that network. So there was a total selfish purpose of like, man, I just want to be around these type of people. And I don't quite know how to do it. So maybe I just build a place that people come to, I can meet all these people. So there was total selfish and then selfless of like, this has changed my life, the practice of floating. How do I get this out to more people? And combined that, and that gave me the fuel to go off and do it.

9:33Listeners, if you're looking for more insights into how to develop and launch a product, check out the Uflip blog on product development, the ultimate guide, where you'll find advice and insights from other product designers. Find the link to our blog in the show notes. Ryan, how would you describe the Plunge brand? Can you kind of give us the overview of the products you're selling and the problem they're solving for customers? Yeah, I think from a brand perspective, our mission is to make resilience mainstream. So it's our products. We have our cold plunge lineup where you have the sauna coming out.

10:03Both those products at the core are to help build resilience in us as humans. So that's like what a North Star is of any product that we're developing at the core. Is it solving for that? Secondary, the next biggest thing that we are solving is time. Lots of health and wellness modalities, but cold plunging, it is the best ROI on your time that you can find two to three minutes to go from how you feel prior to how you feel after. Our sauna, high heat sauna, that can crank up to 230. It's a 10 to 15 minute experience as opposed to a 60 and a number of other saunas. We're really trying to solve that of people that are high impact people that are living robust, fulfilled lives?

10:41How can they work in these modalities that fit into life and maximize it? So above all, building resilience, secondary, is this providing strong ROI on your time? What kind of research were you doing beforehand to kind of validate the ideas? And how did that information ultimately influence the design of the products? It's a great question. Research-wise, the research was on ourselves. we were it was what we were doing we felt incredible it was like to this value prop of like time and how like roi on our like what we feel getting in that was so clear we're like this is incredible i don't quite know what's going on here i don't know how to quantitatively or qualitatively say what's happening but we felt it we knew it was like a net positive in our life so that was kind of the start i think the design of the unit we did have strong opinions and how that should be.

11:30We felt that this experience is you're manufacturing the fight or flight experience. That's the point of it. And that's very hard to do in the world. Usually fight or flight can only come in in unknown moments, someone cutting you off, someone all of a sudden yelling at you or random moments that kind of trigger things. Well, the cold triggers the fight or flight. So we wanted an experience that you could actually learn to relax into it. So it was really important that we had a tub that had some ergonomic dynamics to it. And that's blood into our sauna now. Our sauna is very unique into the back panel is at a 15 degree angle.

12:01So when you lay back, you can find some comfort there. So we wanted to create comfort in this like highly uncomfortable scenario. So those were like real big dynamics that we wanted. And we also wanted all of our products to look really like sleek and unique, you know, pieces that you feel confident and proud to put out in your backyard or they don't need to be hidden. So those were two dynamics to like, does it actually solve from a effective, like ergonomic standpoint and from a like aesthetically pleasing dynamic. And those were the two main things that we've set out to instill in all our products.

12:32So then what does the design process look like to achieve those goals? It's developed over time. I mean, it started, the first one was really Mike and I in a garage, just like testing out, literally buying every bathtub that's existed, getting into it. Mike's six, six, I'm six foot. So we have different heights. Like how far should your knees bend? How far do we want to expose ourselves? Like what is the ultimate width? What is too much water? Really, it was just trial, getting a ton of different units, testing them out. And that's developed over time as well. We've gotten a ton of feedback. We get, you know, as more and more units go out, we get more understanding from the consumer.

13:06The sauna design was a next step in that evolution. We actually brought a group of sauna designers into the fray with us. That was where Mike and I kind of were outside of the box, had a lot of crazy ideas, which they supported us in and equally kind of brought us back down to earth of like, that's just not feasible. But we ended up where our current sauna is at. It's a pretty revolutionary design and engineering of how it's at an angle, how it's all tongue and groove, easy setup. That's been the design. And then our current, we are evolving the plunge lineup. There will be new evolutions of future generations of plunges.

13:39And that's a much more sophisticated with our engineering department as we've hired in that space to go through more industrial designers and more in-house design mock-up, testing, feedback. And then we kind of put it into production. To answer your question, started very like just Mike and I shooting ideas off and then it's developed into actually have a team that does this and we have a process that's improved a lot over time. And then what are the differences between the consumer version of the plunge tub and the commercial version of the plunge tub? And I guess the immediate follow up question there is why have two different versions?

14:12The reason is it's mostly for volume of plungers. So like if it's at your house, the real need is like how quickly the water turns over and how cold can you keep the water? So humans are, we're warmer. We tend to heat the water up. So if it's at your house and it's just you and your wife or maybe a friend, it's like you only need our quarter horsepower chiller. That tends to work really, really well. The commercial unit, they all come with our one horsepower chiller. They all have a more robust pump. So the water turns over quicker, really comes down to how much water can you push through the unit in a cycle.

14:44And that will speed up the cooling process and the cleaning process. So a more robust pump, moving more water through the unit. Let's say as opposed to 12-minute turnover, you get it down to 10 minutes, that improves the unit a lot. We have about 50 % larger filter on the commercial. So it just collects more dirt, more debris. The more debris, the more dirt you catch, the less the water flow decreases. And then we also have a hair trap on the commercial unit. Most people in commercial are getting in in bathing suits or after a workout, they might have lint from their clothing. That's one of the main factors of slowing the water down is lint and debris get caught into the pump.

15:21So we have a hair trap there that you don't need to drain it. It's a simple, you could close the valve off, pull the hair trap out, clean the lint out. And that's like a daily or weekly, depending on the volume. So it's just more tools to make it run better longer. It adds a little more maintenance, but it just makes a more effective unit. In the residential unit, you don't need much. You just need good filtration, ozone, and a pretty standard pump and chiller. And it works for most people. And obviously, in addition to the plunge tub and the sauna, there's also accessories and supplies to sell.

15:51Can you talk about the process of deciding, you know, which of those would be developed in-house, which would come from suppliers, and how you decided what specifically you wanted to be offering in addition to the main product? I wish we had more foresight into this. So we, you know, we start selling the plunge. We were treating it at our house with hydrogen peroxide. That's how it started. And it was like, oh, this works for us. And well, not everyone's in California. Some people are in very humid environments. Some people are in, you know, different heating and temperate and it just varies. Water temperature varies.

16:23So very quickly realized like, oh, we need to become water experts. So then we hired consultants into how to test water and, you know, bacteria levels. So that was an interesting journey for us into really understanding how the water needs to be treated. And from there, we've come up with our protocol. It's more of an overarching protocol. It obviously varies. A region could be a little different from the others, but the protocol that we have out on the website now works for everywhere. From a maintenance standpoint, we wanted to have options of whether it's a chlorine option or a non-chlorine option.

16:52It's important for our customer that they have that option. Some, especially in the commercial environment, prefer the chlorine. It helps. It's less probably water change that you would need, water turnover. We created that protocol. It's been a great revenue structure too. We have a maintenance kit there. It's a subscription kit. It makes it really simple for the customer to get their filters, get the chemicals they need to treat it. And that goes out automatically every six months. And so it's just made for ultimately a better customer experience. And, you know, we've had to learn a lot with the commercial side too, because that volume is substantially different where, you know, a residential, maybe one to two plunges a day, we're getting commercial centers up to 50 to 60 plunges in one unit a day, totally different treatment of what they need for the water.

17:32So we've put out multiple protocols, multiple maintenance kits, depending on your use case. When you first launched the product, You talked about kind of sending those initial emails to your previous float clients. Can you talk now about how you go about attracting and connecting with kind of those high-end customers for the brand? It's evolved a lot over time. I could say what we have done in the past, we leaned heavily into influencer marketing, which has been a huge win. And it still is a massive part of our marketing budget, our team. We have people that actually just manage that side to the business.

18:03And so it's allowed, I just think that's the key for all this. People have built strong communities. You want to align with people that have similar values and have high integrity. So we go after those and that's been critical. Next, and everything from there, we've really moved from our influencer marketing. Everything starts with like a product trade. We've never gotten into a paid agreement without someone using and like loving our product first. Our product allows that. It allows us to get in front of a lot of people. It's a high price product. So we can get a very good deliverable to start from somewhere.

18:32And we try and create a win-win scenario, like what's comfortable for them to do, what we feel good about. unit goes out. And then it really, the next step of creating contracts and partnerships that allow us to go deeper in some of these communities happen very naturally. It's like we love working together and we identify core groups that we want to go after. CrossFit had been a big focus for us for a couple of years. Have partnered with Rich Froning, Noah Olson, Danny Spiegel, Mayhem, some of these big groups that we've gone after. Also just trying referrals are such a massive part of our business.

19:02And so we invest heavily into our customer experience, an area that we're really trying to improve, make better from like, even from down to the delivery, we include premium delivery on all of our orders. It's in the cost where FedEx shows up with a team of two, puts it in your house, goes up a flight of stairs if you need, takes away the pallet, and you're really just left with filling it up with a hose and plugging it in, which is created, you know, from start to finish, we like to think like a really good customer experience and we're trying to improve it. That's an area that no matter what we do in the marketing world, it will never beat like someone getting a plunge and telling their friend that this was a great company to work with.

19:35I just I love the product and they've done right by me. Those are two core areas that we focus on. So this is going to bring us to a section of a show that we call our fan blitz questions. These questions come from our YouTube community. Listeners, you can join that community by going to youtube.com slash upflip and post questions to future podcast guests. Ryan, I'm going to give you about five questions here. We're going to try and get through in about 90 seconds. Are you ready? Let's do it. All right. First one coming from Riva Killa asking about a recent study that said cold water therapies, the worst thing for post-workout recovery?

20:06I guess I'm going to reframe that question with, there's obviously a lot of constant studies and news in the health and wellness space. How do you deal with that kind of constant changing of advice? I think that every study, obviously, you need to understand what the sample size was, what were they actually studying for, what does that actually mean? Worst thing to do after a workout? I think that's a pretty dramatic statement. And that is a hot debate in the area. Plunging right after your workout, you want that inflammatory response when you're tearing your muscles down. That's the point. That's how we build strength and muscles in our system.

20:37Is cold plunging stunting that? There's an argument that it is. Does that mean you should plunge maybe two hours after your workout, potentially? Or you could be doing it right before. That's become a big thing in the workout community, especially like our CrossFit athletes. They love it right before. It's almost like a pre-workout. However, I would say this. I have found, I know we got 90 seconds, but I'll be quick. I have found that people saying not to do it post-workout, it's been more of a world of almost an excuse not to do it. Dr. Kelly Starrett, one of our massive partners, his big thing is you get cold when you can get cold.

21:08We're almost overthinking it when we're concerned if it's after a workout. You're going to be able to work out more tomorrow. You are going to recover quicker. That will happen. So if you're long game, if you're playing for strengths, if you're Chris Bumstead and you're going for the world title, you might want to be pushing it four hours after your workout or doing it before. But if you're an everyday person, I think we're overthinking it. Yeah. AI Mo Bashir wants to know if they can resell your product on Amazon. No, we do not do resell on Amazon. Saying if you're reselling it as an individual in the marketplace, yes, but we do not do Amazon resell this time.

21:40If something were to happen to you, what happens to the business? Great question. Mike and I, we have a very clear operating agreement in how that goes down, that if something happened to him or vice versa to me, there are clear guidelines and structures in place to keep the business moving forward. Everything comes down to Mike and I have to decide on things together. And we have a clear structure if Mike, God forbid, had something to happen to him or vice versa. If you could sell your product to one celebrity, who would it be? Andrew Huberman would have been the name that I would have said, but Andrew does use our unit.