Any Given Sunday With Mike Florio

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1:45Mike Florio:congratulations you made the varsity the podcast my name is john arand and i'm pucks sports correspondent and the host of this pod well i was back on radio row in san francisco's moscone center last week super bowl week was winding down so i thought it was a great time to bring nbc's mike florio back on the pod one of my favorite guests florio and i are going to hash out the main off-the-field storylines affecting the leagues these days. Everything from the NFL PA to officials to, you know, Florio, he can talk. But before I get to Florio, today is Super Bowl Sunday, February 8th, and here's what I'm watching.

2:24Mike Florio:I'm still here in San Francisco, so it's the NFL, of course. Or more specifically, it's the NFL's media rights. After talking with a bunch of executives this week, I now believe that the NFL and the networks are going to start to negotiate new deals later this year, probably in the fall. Before that, the NFL is going to auction off a package of four international games that the league took back from the NFL network. That was part of its deal to take a 10 % stake in ESPN. It's also going to negotiate rights for the two Christmas games. Netflix's deal, that ends this year. But here's where it gets interesting to me.

3:04Mike Florio:Other leagues that aren't the NFL are trying to move their rights negotiations up before the NFL does there. And it makes sense. It's because they're worried that the NFL is going to take too much money out of the market and there's not going to be enough left for them. So let's take Take NBC, for example. NBC, of course, was broadcasting the Super Bowl. It pays around$2 billion per year for Sunday Night Football. Now I'm just spitballing here, but let's say the NFL doubles that, which seems like a reasonable expectation. $4 billion per year for Sunday Night Football means that NBC will have to make really hard choices about other rights.

3:44Mike Florio:And it should be noted that Premier League rights are up next year. NBC wants to keep them. Of course they do. It's been a great deal for them, but who knows? And that brings up another interesting point. Other leagues may want to beat the NFL to the market, but the networks don't want to commit anything until they know how much their new NFL deals are. What if it's not$4 billion for Sunday Night Football? What if it's$5 billion? I mean, what's a billion between friends, right? TV networks, they can't exist without NFL rights. Can they? And believe me, that's where covering the sports media business over the next year or so is going to be so fascinating.

4:25But for now, let's get to Mike Florio. First of all, Mike Florio, thank you for joining us again for this. We're on Radio Row. When did you get here? You've been here all week? We got here Sunday. We set up shop here Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. Each day gets more hectic than the one before. Wednesday and Thursday were the craziest for us. And now we have actually just wrapped for the week. We're done. We're heading to Santa Clara for some Super Bowl pregame show meetings tonight. I have to be in Santa Clara at 5 o 'clock for that. Rehearsals on Friday. Rehearsals on Saturday. And then pregame show Sunday.

5:04Tape PFT Live after the game. Go home Monday. and count the days till we go to Indianapolis for the scouting combine just two weeks later. But it's great. It's fun. I think, who was it? Was it Brian Curtis of The Ringer was writing about the celebrities on Radio Row? And, you know, you're a D-list celebrity and can only come on Tuesday. But if you're here on Friday, you are the top of the top. You're an A-lister. It used to be Friday was the big day. I feel like Thursday has supplanted Friday because you realize it's too big on Friday, so it'll come on Thursday. But it actually seemed more hectic yesterday than today.

5:41I just think Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday are crazy. But you're right. Some of the people that I've seen in the past, it's like, what the hell? Who is that person? I can't believe that person's here. And sometimes when you see people out of context, you don't realize right away who it is. Like Aaron Paul, who played Jesse on Breaking Bad. I remember being in Dallas 16 years ago, and he was sitting doing a radio spot. And it's like, I know that kid. Who is that kid? Oh, you know, it's Jesse from Breaking Bad. Holy shit. So, yeah, you see some wild names, faces, and people, and hear some voices.

6:11Like, I know that voice. It's just crazy. It's a crazy week. Yeah, the greatest part for me, Radio Row memory for me, is years ago, I'm walking around, and some guy bumps into me, and I turn around, and it's Joe Gibbs. And, like, if you're from D.C., like I'm from D.C., I'm like, oh, my God, Joe Gibbs just bumped into me. How did that happen? Radio Row. 2012 February in Indianapolis before the Patriots Colts Super Bowl. That was the height of Tebow mania. They had made it to the playoffs that year, lost to the Patriots in the divisional round. And Tebow was at Radio Row. And everybody was like rushing to get to Tebow.

6:51People were brushing past Joe Montana. Like bumping elbows into Joe Montana. and following Tim Tebow. And that was just crazy. It seemed like Joe Montana getting jostled by somebody who's chasing after Tim Tebow. But that was nuts. That was really the biggest it was. And then today in 2026, Tebow is a Tuesday guest probably. Maybe a Wednesday. Yeah, I haven't even seen Tebow in this setting in years. So he knows. He knows. He knows the star is faded. Well, I love talking about Radio Row because it's a question I get most from friends and family just asking you about what's going on. But you've been here all week.

7:30So I want to give you an open-ended question. What's the top storyline, the top topic that keeps coming up with you right now? Well, we try to pivot back to the game with most of the guests, but each guest has their own individual story. And what I try to do is just think of something obscure to get them talking about. Bo Jackson was here. I've never seen Bo Jackson in anything. He said he finally came out of his cave. He's a big believer in men's health. He's got a podcast that focuses on men's health. He disclosed that he had prostate cancer and had his prostate removed. And basically, men don't talk enough about their health issues.

8:08They need to talk about it. They need to take it seriously. He was just so compelling because it's Bo freaking Jackson. I mean, I was just blown away to be in his presence. But to see how committed he is to health, men's health, and to come out in a setting like this. Because if you're not comfortable in crowds, this is not the place to be. I mean, I'm not real comfortable being around this many people, but I'm safe up here on a little stage. When I go down into that mess, it's getting me the hell out of here. So that was just really impressive. But it really wasn't necessarily. By the way, I was expecting the Florio fan base to be behind us.

8:39They're off the clock for now. I can only afford so much. I don't want to have to pay time and a half for overtime. They've been working all week. But as it relates to NFL news, the Belichick thing in the Hall of Fame, I guess, is the one thing that keeps coming up over and over again. And it'll get it'll get another kick in the ass on Thursday night when when the official announcements made and we all recognize that he didn't get in. Does that surprise you? Because I knew it was a big story. I knew it was a multi-day story. I almost didn't, I didn't even have it on my list of questions that I wanted to bring up or topics that I wanted to bring up because it just felt too old.

9:16But it's not. People keep talking about it. And now it's not just Belichick. Apparently it's Kraft, too. Right, right. Neither one's getting in. And it comes from the strange voting process they've concocted that puts three senior players in competition with a coaching candidate and a contributor candidate. instead of having each candidate, each finalist voted on their own up or down 80 percent in 20 percent more. No, you're out. You get you get in this illogical bucket where you pick three out of the five. And last year they did that. And one guy got in Sterling Sharp. So this year, who knows how many are going to get in?

9:57I've heard reports that Roger Craig's getting in. He may be the only one. But the whole thing is just strange. And it's an embarrassment to the Hall of Fame, and it's an embarrassment to the National Football League. The commissioner on Monday tried to say that the league has no control over the Hall of Fame. Well, pull up the board of directors of the Hall of Fame. Look at how many owners are on the board of directors of the Hall of Fame. Roger Goodell is on the board of directors of the Hall of Fame. So they may not actively control it, but they could. They have the power to do it. It'll be interesting to see what changes, if any, are made to the voting process in the aftermath of this, which is a huge embarrassment for the Hall of Fame, and it's a huge embarrassment for the NFL.

10:31No matter what the NFL says about it, they cannot avoid the fact that it embarrasses everyone and everything connected to the shield. You just went to the topic I want to hit. What changes do you expect that we'll see moving forward? For the Hall of Fame? Yeah. I don't know. I'm trying to find that out. And I think at a minimum, they've got to go back. Let me ask you another question then. All right. The Pro Football Hall of Fame, the people in charge of the Hall of Fame, Do they acknowledge a problem or do they think it's the load? Because really, it is a legitimate vote that people that people made.

11:05They didn't want to vote for Bill Belichick. They wanted to vote for, you know, Kenny Ken Anderson instead. I don't know that they are willing to acknowledge they made a mistake because we don't know who ultimately is in charge of this process. Who came up with this new procedure for voting that changed a couple of years ago? I think in response to criticism from people like Deion Sanders, who said too many people get in. I don't think the answer is make it harder to get in because you let other people in under a different standard. So you're going to have more of a logjam. You're going to have more people who don't get in.

11:35People who should be in are going to have to wait even longer, like Mike Holmgren and Mike Shanahan. They now have to wait behind Bill Belichick, who has to wait another year. So I'm hoping for some transparency and for some accountability as to who came up with this procedure, how or if it's going to change. And I think they just need to take a broader look at this. They need to apply some creativity. I was talking to somebody this week, and I can't remember who because there's been so many people. You almost need to have, you know, like if you're going to delete something on your phone that's important, it comes up, are you sure you want to do this?

12:11Like they need to have somebody in the room with the voters saying, hey, are you sure you want Bill Belichick? Did you really not vote for the greatest coach in the NFL history? sure you want to do this before we finalize this vote we're going to give you one more chance here's here's the the outcome are you sure this is what you want but they just need to be creative and you take it seriously it can't just be something that gets slapped together they have to really put some thought into it and understand how human dynamics will come into play for example if you're going to put three senior players craft and belichick in that same bucket and say vote for three you have to understand some of those guys are going to say well you know what for the senior committee candidates, it's their last chance to ever get in.

12:50I'm going to vote for them because that's what Vahe Gregorian of the Kansas City Star supposedly did. So I just think they need to have a greater awareness, understanding and creativity and just envision how the dominoes may fall and try to engineer the whole process a little better or at all. I feel like there isn't any direction or creativity at all. You know what surprises me from listening to you talk about the Hall of Fame and the fact that of all the issues affecting the league, and you would acknowledge there are bigger issues affecting the league, that's the one that's cutting through to the most people.

13:25I mean, it is just the Hall of Fame. Who really cares? I don't care about the Hall of Fame. It's the ultimate team sport. Like, why do they even have a Hall of Fame? That's been my position. It's a team sport, and we celebrate teams, and then we're going to reward individuals for having great careers in the ultimate team sport. But I think one of the issues here, John, I think there's a couple of issues. Number one, boy, isn't it great to have find something that everybody agrees on? I mean, it's great. It's been so long since we've all agreed on something. This isn't an 80-20 issue. It's a 90-10 issue.

13:53It's a 95-5 issue. I mean, that's great to have that. But secondly, I think it's a manifestation of the general incompetence that is wafting around the NFL right now, specifically as it relates to my favorite topic, officiating, the lack of transparency in officiating, the illogical outcomes in officiating. Like this is kind of not quite a mirror image, but it's just a different way to show and prove that there's something wrong. There's a ghost in the machine. There's a fly in the ointment. And if it pops up in the Hall of Fame voting with Bill Belichick not getting in, what kind of weird stuff is going on as it relates to the NFL and the rules and the application of the rules?

14:36So I think that part of it explains why there's been so much attention to it, because I think at a visceral level, we all recognize the league's got some things to fix. And even though this has nothing to do with the games, it's a tangible example of something that is really screwed up that the league at least has its fingerprints on.

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15:49Right before coming on this set to have this conversation, you had DeMory Smith on, and we're interviewing him. And it just, if you came, if you asked me what I thought sort of the biggest theme of this week so far. It's about almost the, is invisibility too big? Like the NFL PA appears to be particularly toothless right now. And so much so that the, you know, the idea of an 18th game, you know, it seemed to fade a complete. And now it's not, not because of like the PA is pulling back, but because there's like, it's leaderless almost. And so if you're. I still think it's a fait accompli. I do too.

16:37It's a question of when. But like if you're Goodell, who are you who are you negotiating with on this? I think. Does that strike you in the same way? But the whole thing is unusual. It goes back to the reporting that Pablo Torre did with an assist from me back in June, July of 2025, where we discovered that 61 page secret collusion arbitration ruling. And that ended up being the first domino that brought down Lloyd Howell. Not that we did, because ESPN had some great reporting that ultimately put the pressure on Lloyd Howell that caused him to step aside. But none of that stuff happens if we don't flick the first domino as it relates to the collusion case.

17:15That created the feeding frenzy and the reporting that resulted in Howell being out. And now it is just this, and I don't know whether it's deliberate or not. I think that the NFLPA currently thrives in the anonymity of the process so it can get to where it wants to go. I think from everything I've seen, you know, they wanted the same kind of top secret selection process. They don't want the names to be out of the other candidates. There's a belief that it's just a matter of time before David White or whoever is handpicked. There's somebody handpicked and that they want that person to be the executive director.

17:50But that should happen within the next few weeks. They have their annual meeting in March, and then once there's an executive director in place, that's when that person can start talking to the commissioner, and they can try to make process on a new CBA. Just because the current one lasts until March of 31 doesn't mean that there can't be other agreements. They can reach an agreement on anything they want whenever they want, and I think the league is waiting for the right time to make a move on 18 games. 18 games, obviously. International games, obviously. 16 international games and 18 regular season games.

18:22That's what they want. They want to go from 10 to 16. Right now, the limit's 10 international. And they want to go from 17 to 18 regular season. In the negotiations for a new collective bargaining agreement, what are some of the other sort of sticking points that are going to make headlines over the next couple of years? At some point in the last year, John, the commissioner was speaking at one of the quarterly meetings that the owners have. because those are the four times per year that we see and hear from Roger Goodell in addition to the Super Bowl press conference. And he, on his own, started down the path of the owners had a discussion about the salary cap and is the salary cap working the way that they need it to and does there need to be a change to the mechanism or whatever.

19:10And I remember thinking, holy shit, they're going to try to take money back from the players. They're going to try to claw something back. They're going to try to do something because I think the way they look at it, we're giving you, and just for ease of conversation, 50 cents. We're giving you 50 % of everything that comes through the door, give or take. Well, you get the pie to a certain size where the owners may say, do we really give half? Like this pie keeps getting bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. Do we have to give them half of it or do we just come up with a certain number that this is what the cap's going to be?

19:45So in lieu of agreeing to a percentage, I won't be surprised if the league says, here's what we want to do. We're going to give you certain numbers for the salary cap for each of the next 10 years or however long the deal is. So whatever the excess is, they keep it and they're not sharing 50 cents on the dollar. I got the impression that they're at least thinking about that based on the way that Roger Goodell just kind of blurted that out. I think it was May of 2025. It was at some point in the last month or in the last year, excuse me, after one of those quarterly league meetings. I mean, that's something that would be a strike.

20:17I can't imagine the PA. Well, but play it out. My point is that they would fight that as hard as they could. Would they? But, OK, they won't take a work stoppage. They won't give up a year of football in the name of the greater good. We saw that in 2011. We saw it in 1987. We saw it in every instance where they could possibly work stoppage for 40 years. all the way back to 82, right? 82, they played nine games. They missed, what would that be, seven games. But 87 was when I think the NFL recognized we're not going to be able, well, the players aren't going to be able to sit out for a whole season.

21:02They just won't do it. By the way, I have a distinct memory. I was in college at that time. I was too. And I have a distinct memory of Dexter Manley would get interviewed when he played for Washington. And he would get interviewed. He'd be like, I'm going to hold out for two more weeks. And he would actually give, all right, just one more week now. And yeah. And then they started to cross. They figured out. They totally knew. And then all the other ones, yeah, crossed. And then the floodgates opened. But from that point forward, it became clear that a work stoppage isn't going to work into the regular season.

21:36Off-season work stoppage, who cares? So to answer your question and rebut your point, the league will just say, we're going to lock you out until you cry uncle. Here are our terms. And when they put out there for the world to see, this is how much we're going to have per team for 2020, or let's go 2031. This is what we'll commit to to 2032. 2033, the numbers keep going up and up. It's going to be hard to win the PR battle when they disclose the hundreds of millions that they're willing to use to fund the salary cap per team, multiply it by 32, some ungodly number. And what are the players going to do?

22:21Are they going to sit out a whole year? And the NFL never really seemed to be seriously contemplating replacements. And it's a little more delicate to use replacements when you've locked out the workforce. but until the players have their own way to generate revenue by staging games during a strike or a lockout they're never going to have that same nuclear option that the owners have so i just think that it's easy to say in isolation they won't do this they won't do that they won't do this they won't do that we have to consider from the context of when they're locked out and they can't make any money what will they agree to so they can play football again and make money playing football again.

23:03And I think that there are plenty of issues on which they'll cave to get back to playing football. You've brought up, referenced a couple of times, the problems with the officiating, which, you know, especially if you're on social media during any game, it's already getting out there. What can the NFL do to change that? Well, don't get me started. How much time do we have? Full-time officials, for starters. they don't want to pay for full-time officials because i think they look at it as any business why are we increasing this expense line item when we're not getting anything from it what benefit do we get from having full-time officials does it contribute to profit and i would argue yes it guards your your interests it it promotes the integrity of the game and it staves off that moment where all hell can break loose because I just think that it's inevitable we're going to have some sort of a scandal whatever it may be whatever form it may take whether it's players whether it's coaches whether it's officials whether it's owners who knows there's going to be a scandal involving gambling that's going to fundamentally impact the integrity of the sport the sooner they spend the money to have full-time officials to take away that and John it goes back to what the commissioner said in 2012, I believe, when they hated gambling, his quote that we read back to him two years ago about basically, and I'm paraphrasing, in a world of legalized widespread gambling on sports, normal incidents of the game will be viewed as circumstances in which someone is up to something.

24:45And that's been forgotten. And I deal with the complaints all the time from people who email me, from stuff on social media, people get suspicious when something happens, when something, when there's no transparency. You know, so we start with full-time officials. We have to have full transparency. We need to be seeing and hearing what they're talking about when they're doing replay review so that people understand it isn't just some fandom voice. I had a lot of respect for Kyle Brandt to say on NFL Network that the process is Orwellian. I have a feeling he heard from somebody about using that term, but it is.

25:18and that's not what you want. If you want people to believe everything is legitimate, you don't want the word Orwellian to be utilized in connection with this question of who is making the decisions. You know, a point I've made as it relates to replay review, the rule book contemplates that the senior VP of officiating or his or her designee will handle replay. You know, there is no senior VP of officiating and there hasn't been one since Walt Anderson transitioned to a different job. They have not had a VP, a senior VP of officiating. So who the hell's in charge of replay review? It's just weird little things like that that accumulate into this strange reality where the NFL just doesn't seem to care about something it should care about much more than it does.