Burke Magnus’s ESPN Wish List

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1:05congratulations you made the varsity the podcast my name is john arand and i'm a sports correspondent and today burke magnus joins the varsity burke's been with espn for more than 30 years and he currently heads up all content for the company that means that he's the one who decides who and what goes on air i always like talking with burke and i'm happy he's joining us today But before we get to Burke Magnus, today is Wednesday, June 3rd, and here's what I'm watching. The NBA Finals start tonight. The Stanley Cup started yesterday. We're a little more than a week away from the start of the World Cup.

1:42But I'm most interested in all of the chaos that's in college sports right now. Or more specifically, I want to talk about the persistent rumors that the two most powerful college conferences, the Big Ten and the SEC, just aren't getting along. I wrote about this in my private email last week. in May, the commissioners of the SEC and the Big Ten, that's Greg Sankey and Tony Petiti, took public shots at each other over expanding the college football playoff. The Big Ten wants to go to 24 teams as soon as it can. The SEC, it doesn't want to move much beyond 16. And what I found out when I started reporting this is that behind the scenes, these two agree a lot more than people think.

2:22As one media executive told me, there's definitely a rivalry, but they still agree on a lot. In fact, some sources said that any disagreements between Sankey and Petiti come as a result of Sankey wanting to take things slower and get all of his boxes checked. Tony, he wants to move a lot faster. And the truth is that they agree on setting up guidelines around NIL and the transfer portal. They both welcome Congress setting up laws to help it govern the sport. There's disagreement on CFP expansion, of course. Nobody expects that question to be answered anytime soon. The likelihood, though, is that they're going to find a compromise.

2:58The key here, the SEC and the Big Ten want to work together. And that is the key for the future of college sports, because any division between the top two conferences is sure to slow down any reforms that be coming its way. OK, now let's get to ESPN's Burke Magnus. Burke Magnus, first of all, great to see you again. I think last time I saw you was on the Delaware shores, knocking back some beers at the Starbird Bar and Grill there in Dewey Beach. So it's great to have you in a more professional setting here. Yeah, you're right. Although we got to coordinate our dates this summer to see if we're in the same place at the same time again.

3:36That was a fun time. um you are about to go through all of espn where a really busy period of time where you have the uh nba finals of course you have the stanley cup finals i it was three and a half years ago burke that you took over the programming uh department and so as you uh you know three and a half years ago you would have gone to these meeting to these events and you would have met with league executives and and worked on deals and and and uh fostered relationships there now as sort of the head of programming when you go to these events what does it look like what what what's your what's a typical day at like let's say game one in san antonio going to be like for burke magnus right now yeah um well first of all i left programming so i'm i'm the head of content now So it's, you know, it's really, as you noted, a different experience when I when I show up at events.

4:39And so what my primary concern is really to get to see our people, you know, get to see the teams that have been working in the field all season long, spend some time in the truck, make sure everything, you know, which it always is because we have great people buttoned up and ready to go. So, you know, during the game, I'll still see a lot of those same people, a lot of the league executives. My relationships there are as strong as they've ever been. And a lot of those people deal both on the business side and the content or creative side. So, you know, that part of it remains the same. But generally speaking, I'm there for our people who are on site creating the pictures, the sounds and pictures of the live game experience.

5:33This is kind of a similar question, but how has your world changed? You're now, you know, like who's going to be on air and what shows are going to be on air? How has that changed the way that you've approached your work? Well, actually, it's been a really pleasant surprise. I mean, I worked in programming for 28 years of my 31. And that's the department I came up through. And, you know, the rights, as you well know, John, the rights negotiations and the rights deals became my specialty. and I did a lot of those over the years and so when I switched over to content it really is in you know flexing an entirely different muscle if you want right if you both intellectually and in every conceivable way I had to learn a different side of our business you know but at the end of the day just like it was in in programming what we're trying to do is is create the highest quality content and distribute it, sell against it and get an aggregate audience across platforms, not just on television, obviously, but across our digital, our social, you know, our audio, etc.

6:52So, you know, for me, it was a great challenge. It's a much larger group of people. It's about 4000 people all in, you know, but, but from my perspective, it was a, it was a natural progression and I was able to tap into a lot of the, uh, skills that, uh, that, that I acquired, uh, as I grew up on the programming side. Uh, so it's been a lot of fun. So you talk about the, the need to put it on like high quality content and like, I wouldn't trust my own instincts on that. You know, just cause I hadn't lived as a part of that. Like, how do you decide what is going to work and what's not going to work?

7:33Is it focus groups? Is it TV viewership? Is it online viewership? Well, it's part art and part science is what I like to say. I mean, of course, it's all of those things from a research perspective. But John, I wouldn't sell yourself short here. Like I think with the amount of sports that you've watched over your lifetime, I think you have a pretty, you would probably find that you have a pretty good instinct as to what's good and what's not good, right? It's, first of all, as a subjective situation. So, you know, even though, you know, myself and my team, you know, are charged with making decisions about what a lot of people end up seeing, we appreciate that it's subjective.

8:15And we might think something is good or an announcer is great, or, you know, people might have differing opinions about all of that. So when you strip it right down. You know, we're really just trying to appeal to the broadest group of people, the most diverse group of people. You know, sports fans can be very particular based on their own personal fandom. But, you know, as we present content, again, across platforms, we're just looking for really what resonates and continuing to innovate so that fans, you know, have the highest possible experience. But it is subjective at the end of the day. So you really have to just trust your instincts and trust your gut.

8:55So it is primarily like a gut feel. Three and a half years, if I'm looking at ESPN right now and judging what you've done at ESPN, you've brought in people like Pat McAfee, which goes across over into YouTube. You know, Stephen A. Smith, of course, is not just solely on ESPN. I think he's identified with ESPN, but he, of course, has something on Sirius and he's also on YouTube as well. This is more of a product, I think, of 2020 and the pandemic. But there's a lot more sort of remote productions like this one, you know, people talking sort of from their homes. As you look and see how ESPN has progressed under your watch, what would you identify?

9:50Like, where would I see a Burke Magnus stamp or the Burke Magnus gut? Well, listen, I think a couple of things there. One is, and you noted it, you know, the environment that we play in right now looks completely different than it did, you know, only a few years ago. certainly 10 years ago. So really my focus in a lot of ways was to make sure that our content continued to evolve, to appeal to, you know, not just the broadest audience, like I said before, but also the most contemporary audience, right? This is where I really, I think you've met my kids, you know, on those Delaware trips from time to time, but this is where I've really leaned on my two kids as they grew up and went through high school and college, right?

10:43Because we all talk about the, you know, trying to chase the elusive younger audience. So I, you know, what I wanted to do was learn from them and make sure that in addition to those tent poles that have always been great and appeal to people that are more in my own demographic, for example, like Sports Center and pardon the interruption and some, you know, obviously the live event coverage, you know, was to was to create content and and and wind, you know, content into our existing franchises that also appeals to what I like to call the contemporary sports fan. read the younger sports fan, right?

11:25Because, you know, kids that are in their, you know, that are teenagers now that are in their early 20s. Now, you know, they can be like my kids, every bit as big a sports fan as I was when I was their age, but their experience looks totally different and how they express their fandom looks totally different than, you know, than you or I. And so if you're not meeting them and meeting their expectations in that regard, you sort of do so at your own peril. And so not just again, not just on television, one of the great secret weapons that we have is our digital and social. And by digital, I mean our branded on platform digital like ESPN.com and the app.

12:07And then social is our branded off platform digital. So how ESPN shows up on Instagram, on TikTok, in that kind of environment and critically important for relevance and critically important to reach fans, younger fans that might not be experiencing you as much on television. Yeah. Having kids leave the house has really killed my focus group. I used to tell the story all the time. My son, I'd be watching a game and he would not be watching the television, but he would be following it on various social media. So he'd show me a highlight that I had seen five minutes before, you know, because I'm sitting here watching the game as a good proper Gen Xer.

12:50Yeah, exactly. They come downstairs in the morning and start talking about the game. And I'd be like, how do you know this? Like, I know you didn't watch. How do you know this? But, you know, again, they're huge sports fans and they're every bit as invested as we were. It just looks different. Right. You know, we used to walk out to the driveway and get the newspaper to read the sports section right now it's you go on the app or you go online and you get your information that way in other ways so um you know trying to make sure that we are uh that we're reaching people that way but also that we're relevant with that group of people and we're not seen as you know old or stayed or or you know you know um you know not cool right i referenced mcafee i referenced Stephen A.

13:36I didn't talk about what is probably your most noteworthy move, which was to bring over the inside the NBA group for this season. Give me a report card. And like, has it worked the way that you thought it was going to work? Does it need to do any tweaks for next year and beyond? Take me through your thought process on that. Yeah, a couple of things there. First of all, I think it has worked wonderfully. The crew at Turner on the production side has been fantastic to work with. The talent have all been fantastic to work with. Like I said, you know, in many places leading up to the launch, we had no intention of changing that show in any way, shape or form.

14:23You know, quite literally, all we did was put the ESPN logo on the desk and let those guys do their thing. You're talking about one of the best and most successful sports studio franchise shows of all times without exaggeration. To me, it's College Game Day and Inside the NBA. Those are the two. But, you know, we let them do their thing and they did it. You know, if I if I could change something, it's really unrelated to how the show shows up, you know, on screen. um you know and this was identified early on it was a it was something that you know turner insisted on in in in the business deal but i would like to spread the shows over more of the regular season it's quite backloaded at this point we were we had a handful of shows on uh in the first half of the season it really was we didn't it really got to christmas day and that's when we it's taken off now it's been incredible in the postseason because they're on it basically every single night we have a game in the postseason they're on uh so you know little tweaks here and there to make uh on the scheduling but i'm proud of the way you know uh it's appeared on espn i think they're very happy uh that the show was able to continue on our platform and we have a great working relationship with with turner on the production side so you know it's everything that i would have hoped it to have been honestly look you you deal with with mcafee of course uh Stephen A.

15:52just generally doesn't go off the reservation on ESPN anyway. Is there any part – was there any time this season that inside the NBA caused you any kind of angst about like, oh, don't go there, guys? Honestly, not at all. Not at all. And, you know, I don't know. You'd have to ask them. I don't think they were pulling any punches because of the change in platform. um you know if if they were i would if i would encourage them not to um you know because you know we want exactly what they've been and and and what made them so great um so no there wasn't a single moment like that honestly um let's talk about the the booth uh where you have mike breen i mean you had a a great booth you had mike breen doc rivers uh what was in there jj reddick and And then little did you know, like Doc Rivers was taken off, JJ Redick, and you had to end up replacing them.

16:50How do you stand on the booth right now? Yeah, we're the cradle of coaches. That's what I like to say. If you want to become a head coach, you just come on over to ESPN and we'll get you a job. But right now I feel great about it. I mean, honestly, I feel fantastic about it. Breen is the best in the business. Obviously, that was a great foundation to work from. And now this combination of Richard Jefferson and Tim Legler has been, you know, and we very, very consciously put them together on, I think, almost every single game they worked, they were all together. There was an occasional game where it was one of, it was either Richard or Tim.

17:27But for the most part, in almost every instance, it was the three of them during the regular season because we wanted them to get as many reps as they possibly could going into the postseason. And I think that's really paid off. Credit to Mike McQuaid, you know, on that decision and also, you know, putting them and Tim Corrigan, putting them in position to really, you know, hit their stride. And they're doing that right now. And hopefully we get a very long finals series so we can see, you know, that as many times as possible. We got, you know, a sweep, obviously, in the in the Eastern Conference final, which as a Knicks fan, I was personally very happy with.

18:05But from a business perspective, it was not great. so we're hoping to get the long series but I really feel like we have now landed on a combination that can be steady and take us through you know a bunch of years you know as we as we embark on really the first year of the new 11-year relationship with the NBA you know our we're the we're the incumbent here and that we're continuing on they they got two new partners uh obviously but uh you know but we we feel like really excited going into a long future with the nba with this as our as our primary booth so you reference this this is a you're a long time uh partner with with the nba going back you know a quarter century now um this is the first time you've had amazon prime in there this first time you've actually had nbc in there i mean nbc i guess left as way back when uh espn took that took their package um you know when you were just a teenager I think, Burke.

19:07How has how has year one of this new NBA deal been different from previous years? Yeah, that was a little bit of a learning curve, not in a bad way, but obviously we had, you know, Turner, I think he had an even longer tenure than than we did. So it was the two of us together for many, many, many years. Not that we had to really coordinate all that often, But it was like we kind of knew exactly, you know, the way things were going to come down because it was great continuity from a partner perspective. You know, having two new players in and having us be, you know, the long term incumbent was a little bit different.

19:54And just having three partners on the national level, not two, you know, and a different scheduling matrix, both during the regular season, their tentpole events, and into the postseason, where the postseason was quite different, you know, in terms of the, you know, the game selection process and who got where, who got what rather when. But, you know, that stuff all works itself out. we're very we have a good working relationship with both of them you know I sent a nice note to to to Rick Cordell after they finished up just a classic Western Conference you know final so it's been fine it's been good it's been different but it's been you know we're getting we're all getting used to it and it's I think it's great for the league to have two great powerful partners in addition to us showing, you know, getting NBA content out there.

20:55Yeah, you mentioned the Western Conference Finals. Getting Wemby in is great for you, but I have to tell you, I was rooting for OKC because I wanted to see the New York market respond to all those flops, Burke. I mean, they would have gone crazy with that, I'm sure. Those are two really good teams. I think it is a slight lean towards Wemby, you know, in terms of it from a purely TV perspective, having I think he's a he's a great curiosity to the casual fan. Maybe not the person who watches NBA regularly, but now is keyed into the finals because the Knicks are in it. And, you know, pairing the Knicks up with a guy who is when it's all said and done, I think is going to clearly be one of the greatest players of all time.

21:43Maybe that's a little aggressive as we sit here so early in his career, but he's a really, really special athlete. And I think that that will be that's a slight upside there for us as opposed to OKC. I know you're not in the negotiations for the rights anymore, but I know that the NHL has made noises about wanting to go early and re-up. What's the advice that you give to Jimmy and to Roz Durant when it comes to the NHL? Are you happy with it right now? We love it over here. They're fantastic to work with, to partner with, to innovate with. They're always game for a conversation about how we might do things differently.

22:33Commissioner Bettman really sets the tone over there. He has a fantastic team. um and by the way the numbers uh for the nhl put we currently sit going into the stanley cup finals and you don't see these numbers very often plus 68 percent year over year uh so you know whether that was the olympics or four nations uh there's just a ton of buzz around hockey right now it's a great sport i've been a fan my whole life uh you know in terms of uh watching ranger games growing up and going to ranger games uh you know in the garden so you know it's got a ton of momentum around it uh jimmy and and ross certainly know that um and we've had it's been a it's been wonderful frankly to after 17 years of being out of the nhl business getting back in having them you know be a fantastic partner with us to try and move the game forward and uh and i feel really good about where our coverage is uh sean mcdonough is is is unquestionably the the best hockey play by play guy in the world right now um and we have a great studio uh with uh messier and pk and so we feel great about it so hopefully this continues for many years i think you know i i hate comparing ratings to pre the the way that nielsen does all their numbers and every every everything is up from last year, but 60 % is like that beyond just that's beyond methodology.

24:00Yeah. And I mean, what do you put that to you? You mentioned the Olympics, you mentioned the four nations. What, why did it increase so much? Well, I think it's a combination of that. I think of those two things, I think there's just a heightened interest. You know, we have a matchup in the Stanley cup now that's different from the past two years. There was the same matchup two years in a row um i i just think you know the there's a great young players in the league um there's they i think the the nhl is creative in their in their tentpole events like the winter classic in the stadium series you know i just think they're they're smart and they make good decisions and they and they do things that you know that um for us and uh and for for others like Turner's their other partner, you know, which are with an eye towards building audience and growing audience.

24:52So it's not just one thing. It's a combination of things in my estimation. But there's just a lot of heat around the sport right now.

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26:11I want to switch topics here, Burke, and talk about the NFL. Another big deal, the NFL now is a 10 % owner of ESPN, has a 10 % stake in it, and you are now overseeing NFL Network. And before I ask about sort of like changes that you've made and that you're going to make, you know, you got NFL Network and you got under the hood. um what what what surprised you about that what like what what was what weren't you expecting that all of a sudden you were like what was a happy circumstance for you i would say the people and the facility um you know i had never been inside their building uh at hollywood park when you go the first time you went in their building i got texted by a number of people saying that you were asking people where the bathroom was burke probably was I should have written that.

27:05I didn't, though. That's probably true. And I don't mean it from the facilities perspective, meaning the bathrooms. It's a great building, technologically really advanced, enormous, beautiful studios. They have a hardworking team that has been doing great work for a very long time. They have a great brand. The NFL Network, I would posit, is still an unbelievably powerful brand because it carries the three letters NFL. And there's just a ton of opportunity there to grow. And that's what we saw in it. Couple that with the ability to put, you know, the red zone brand and continue to put those two things together from a distribution perspective.

27:51and sort of a lightly reported but very important part of that transaction for us was that we're combining our two fantasy games. So, you know, the NFL, ESPN.com's, or ESPN's fantasy football game is now the official fantasy game of the NFL, and they're porting over their entire game to ours, and we're going to combine forces and make, you know, really what I would suggest to you is the Uber, you know, fantasy football experience of all, which will be a combined tens of millions of players. So we're really excited. But the first thing that got my attention, honestly, was going into that building, seeing how much people cared, how excited they were that we were there, how excited they were at the prospect of growth.

28:46And for us, that's what this opportunity really is. I think with a little bit of investment and a little bit of elbow grease, we can really make this network sing in a way that probably it hasn't in a few years. And that's no disrespect to the NFL. I just think that they recognize, which is why they were interested in a transaction to begin with, that this was not their core competency in terms of running a media enterprise or operating, you know, a network like this. So we're excited to get in there and really take it to another level. Whenever anybody asks me about NFL Network and what changes to expect, I always point them to SEC Network, which is what ESPN owns, and ACC Network, which ESPN owns.

29:39And you're able to, you know, cover them on ESPN and still have a network that's solely dedicated to them. That answer, I understand that answer. And I can see that answer. It makes me a little uncomfortable. You cover the NFL so heavily on ESPN. Like, how is this going to be different from the ACC network and the SEC network? Well, if you're talking about reporting, I guess I would say this, like, we're going to use the lessons that we've gathered through those to networks. The big difference there is that we launched both of those from scratch. The NFL network is a pre-existing service that has been around for many, many years.

30:22But in terms of coverage of the league or reporting on the league, I guess the distinction is exactly where you were headed, which is we're going to cover and report the NFL. It's called the NFL network, but we're not going to investigate the NFL, you know, we'll leave that to the people, you know, to the to to what we do on the ESPN platform. And, and, you know, as I mentioned that, you know, the important part there is that the league has never discouraged us. And it's never been a conversation, you know, that we would in any way stop or alter what we've done historically, in terms of our investigative journalism or enterprise journalism at ESPN, which from time to time will delve into topics related to the NFL.