ESPN's Talent Whisperer

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0:51Congratulations! You made the varsity of the podcast. My name is John Arand and I am Puck's sports correspondent and the host of this pod. I spent Monday in Bristol, Connecticut, where I sat down with Mike Foss. Mike is a senior vice president at ESPN who oversees all studio programming, everything from SportsCenter to McAfee to First Take to SVP. This conversation was a lot of fun. I think you're really going to like it. But before you get to Mike Foss, today is Wednesday, March 18th, and here's what I'm watching. I am focused on NBA expansion. It looks like Vegas and Seattle should get teams within the next two years.

1:31ESPN reported this week that the NBA is going to hold a vote at its Board of Governors meeting next week to explore adding two teams that are going to start in 2028. Now, the big number to me, the expansion fees, they're in the$7 to$10 billion range, which shows that the market for team valuations is not slowing down at all. When I had Gary Bettman on the pod recently, we talked about how NHL team valuations have more than doubled over the past three years. And to draw a quick parallel to baseball, these are the kind of numbers that are causing such big rifts in baseball's labor war. The Orioles were the last MLB team to be sold.

2:11They were bought by David Rubenstein in 2024 for just$1.7 billion, a far cry from the NBA expansion fees that are approaching$10 billion. dollars. Now, the owners believe they truly believe that they need a salary cap to unlock these billions of dollars in team valuations. And they're probably right. But the players, they see that kind of money is only benefiting the owners. The trickle down theory doesn't work. And to me, these NBA expansion fees are what's at the heart of baseball's biggest rift right now. So, okay, now let's get to ESPN's Mike Foss. So, Mike, you are overseeing all of the studio shows here at ESPN, the podcasts, everything else.

2:55Take us through a typical day. What's a better question, a day or a week in your life? Take us through the typical day. I mean, I don't have a good answer for either. A day, a week. There is no typical. No, no. Because when you're, I made a conscious decision as the portfolio expanded, as the people I work with expanded, that you can't, the best thing that I could do was be present for people as moments present themselves. Whatever those moments, whatever the problems, the solutions, whatever happens, I needed to make sure that I was enhancing their experience. Right. So I never thought of myself going into this job as anyone's boss.

3:47Legitimately, I thought of myself as a collaborator. And so when you do that, you know, you have natural check ins, you know, like I'll dial into the get up meeting at 6am, but I'll listen. I'm not coming in there with like, here's a great idea. do. I'll check in with Pat or Stephen A or text SVP just a minute ago and just see, hey, what do you need? How can I be helpful? Legitimately, every conversation that I have with any of those folks and goes down the line, producers, CPs, whoever, hey, how can I be helpful? And then work back from there. Because once you understand the motivations, the needs of those people, everything else can fall into place.

4:26You already just referenced Greenberg, Stephen A., McAfee, SVP. It takes a special skill set to be able to manage each one of those different personalities. And in fact, I stuttered over manage because I was like, is that the right word? Do you manage them? No, I collaborate. Yeah. I collaborate. Yeah. I mean, look, how did you develop that? um i i think you you have to fail at managing pretty quickly to figure out you're a collaborator so yeah so you're a crappy manager but a great a great collaborative terrific manager no look i mean if if i was here or if i wasn't here i should say scott van pelt would still be awesome pat mcafee is going to be awesome whether i'm here or not doing whatever he decides to do staying with steven a go down the list you know like all of those guys are so talented whether I'm part of the picture or not.

5:24So it's less about, again, like I said, managing and it's much more focused on collaborating. I think some of that also comes from my background. I played collegiate soccer. I practiced in MLS, never played, but you have this identity as a young player, like, oh, I'm a striker or I'm a defender or I'm a center midfitter or whatever. And then you get to college and you're with all of these alphas, right? And you realize, oh, I have to figure out how best to serve this team, right? And then you move up another level and you realize, oh, just to hang on, I need to figure out how to be essential to these people who are world-class, world-cup players, right?

6:11So I come here and I'm faced with the best of the best at what they do. It's not, oh, here's my idea. Hey, guy who's super successful. Here's what I'm about. It's, hey, what are you trying to do? What are you trying to achieve? How do I help that journey? And it's worked out so far. When I was setting this up with Josh Kurlowitz, who, of course, runs communications for ESPN, he described you as the Pat McAfee whisperer. Oh, I hate that. Do you hate that? because i i like that that makes it seem like pat's complicated in a way that he's just from my perspective he's complicated i don't i i disagree i think pat's very very straightforward pat wants to win at everything that he does and he is hyper intelligent he is a successful talent Yes, but I mean, he produces that show.

7:08He runs that business. He has launched multiple other careers simultaneous to that business. And I think anybody who spends all of 60 seconds with Pat realizes that this is a very smart, intense, driven person. So if you are willing to match that energy and also willing to learn and be humble in that moment, This is a very successful person, a very driven person. What can I learn from this? If you take that approach, I think the relationship is beneficial. I mean, we were talking off mic and there are several people that we both know who have had very successful, very beneficial relationships with Pat because they have taken that approach.

7:58So I don't think Pat whispers ever. So again, to match that energy, I doubt I am too. Yeah, I think it's, again, it goes back to the collaboration. So I still I want to get into the actual shows and sort of what they're doing and how they're unique and how they're going to change sort of moving forward. But I really am fascinated by this, but by, you know, your your job of dealing with all these different people. Like, how did you get started? How did this become sort of apparent to you that you are good at this and that this is this is what you wanted to do? Well, I think every person that achieves any level of success also has a little bit of self-loathing.

8:47So I think that's the easy answer. I just, I don't think I've been successful. Um, I, I, I look, I, I personally have always tried to innovate myself. Um, you know, I started at USA Today writing, editing, copy editing, um, launched a site there that was geared towards social media and capturing that in, uh, in its beginnings in its infancy. From there, went to Fox because I saw an opportunity to weave video and build video production into that web experience and have parlayed that into a career at ESPN that has pursued those passions and those interests and always tried to make myself better and to make the people around me better.

9:43Again, I hate that the through line keeps coming back, but that really is like when you take a step back and say, okay, why is this worth the way that it has? It's always been, I mean, there are two guys that are helping put this together right now that I remember, you know, in 18, 19, as we were starting to launch some of the digital live streaming shows like Hoopstreams and Countdown to Game Day and others at ESPN that were like, okay, let's bring creative people together and see what we can do. And that's always been, you know, my my ethos and just taking that and applied it to, um, some of our, our signature brands has been, you know, I, I hope, I think it seems at least in the ratings, it has been a very, uh, beneficial partnership so far.

10:25All right. So I, I sort of asked this question already. Uh, you know, you have such different personalities that you oversee, but it's, it's more than the different personalities. It's such different shows. Yeah. Uh, let's start with McAfee's show. what what makes that successful i mean you've described uh pat already as super intelligent intelligent somebody who wants to win somebody who's able to connect with people there are a lot of people that that have those characteristics that have terrible shows what makes it what makes his show work what are some of the terrible shows i'm kidding look i think i think you know we've obviously that actually would be a great podcast can we talk about the terrible shows the things that happen um look i i think i think we've already listed you know some of the personal attributes that pat has um there is a very tightly knit group in indianapolis of 15 that have been together for a long time so i think i think add loyalty to that as well um that that crew has built that show from the ground up together.

11:39And they are very authentic to themselves as well. So I think you go in and watch, and I love to do this, go back and watch pre ESPN episodes of the Pat McAfee show and look at where those guys started and how they've developed over time to where they are now. Their audience has been part of that with them. So they carried a very committed loyal YouTube audience to ESPN. ESPN has put them on millions and millions of television screens. So they've benefited from the exposure that we've given them. But as that audience has grown, they have insisted on staying authentic to themselves and their interests.

12:26They're driven by their interest. They've turned the world baseball classic into a holiday on that show. And you look around and I can say it now, three, four, five weeks ago as they were starting to put that together and take a step back and, oh, that's really smart. It's easy to say that it's smart now, but to have that awareness, for him to have that awareness and that group to have the awareness, okay, this is going to be a thing. We're going to make this a thing and know how to authentically build that within their show. I think that's, there are many reasons, but I think that's one that really separates them.

13:04You know what I like, speaking as a viewer, what I like about Pat is that he's totally unpredictable and he's somebody that just doesn't work in a corporate environment. You called it authentic, I guess. I guess that's sort of another word for it. But from your standpoint, there's always the Norby episode. uh there was other there were you remember did you recall that uh there was also the the time why he called out i think another uh espn executive when that happens does your heart sink or or do you do you know him it's like yeah i'm just gonna you you uh recognize what's happening and are able to um i guess my question is like are those the worst days of uh at espn Yeah.

13:53No, definitely not the worst days. We're still pretty. We're steady. I saw a little bit of tremor there. Yeah, a little bit of tremor. It might be the caffeine. Now, look, again, Pat's authentic. Pat's hyper-competitive too. And it goes back to expecting of himself. It starts with him. He is always holding himself up to an insanely high standard of performance. I don't know how you do a show three hours every single day during the week, then do game day, then do raw, then launch a movie career on the side if you're not pushing yourself to the utmost, the highest standard possible. And I think when he recognizes an opportunity for someone else to meet that standard, he's not going to waste time by having a sidewinding conversation.

14:58He's going to go, hey, here's where I am. Here's where I think you should be this weekend. As a matter of fact, I'm hanging out. No big deal. Got a hyperbaric chamber in my house sitting in there, just, you know, a little bit of peace, you know, on, on email, just catching up. And I get a text from him and he's like, Hey, Washington sports center. All right. And then he gives, he gives feedback on sports center. Wow. That's actually, that's really smart. I should have thought of that. And to me, it's like, wow, like that guy cares. That guy's like fully bought in. You know, I think, I think there's this, this sense that it's just him on an Island doing his own thing, but like, he's super invested in what we're doing.

15:40Um, so I think whenever he sees someone not meeting that standard, he's going to call it out and, you know, odds are he's, he's probably right. So yeah, when, whenever, whenever it happens on air, um, you know, I think that's, that's just him living in the moment because that show is very much in the moment. And when he recognizes an opportunity to, to speak his mind, he's going to, and it just so happens. He's on a microphone most of the day. So it might come out there. All right. You referenced a sports center, which is you oversee the studio shows. That's talk about a studio show. Yeah. That's one of them.

16:15Yeah. That's one of them. What was his idea? I'm dying to know. He was just looking to move something up and then run down a little bit. Just a little adjustment here, a little adjustment there. So I'm not going to weigh everything. We got to pay. That's for the inner circle subscribers. I follow. I follow. Oh, you got the puck lingo. I like that. Yeah. I see for short. I asked the exact same questions to Jimmy Pataro and to, and to Burke Magnus and, and they have totally bought into the need to allow. Well, they don't own the show. They rent, they rent the show, but the need to allow, you know, Pat to be Pat and, and, you know, to maintain that authenticity.

16:56It must be like, it must make your job easier. just kind of knowing that you don't always have to go up the ladder to explain sort of what's going on sometimes i i guess i go up the ladder to explain what's going on anyway because i think while we don't own the show we can own the lessons from the show and i think i think it it behooves us as a company to recognize what's happening from 12 to 2 on espn and then 12 to 3 everywhere else if it's just a well that's that's pat and you just kind of shrug and like well that's good oh that's bad you don't really learn anything from it then that's not that's not really useful or beneficial to the to the investment because there's there's a significant investment on both on both sides so yeah we don't we don't own the content but as things happen both positive and negative if we're not learning for them from them that's a disservice to everyone here what are some of the lessons from the show that you think would work across studio shows?

18:02I think we talked about it with the World Baseball Classic. One primary one is his willingness to embrace all sports. He doesn't feel the need to rely exclusively on the NFL or college football. He could. He's great in both of those areas. And from a linear perspective, if he just played those notes, I don't think the audience would suffer, but he doesn't do that. He's willing to go full in on the Olympics. He's the world baseball classic, hockey, soccer, whatever, golf. He is willing to embrace anything immediately and throw himself into it. So I think that's a big lesson. That's something that I would love to see us borrow, steal, embrace across the board.

18:55Because again, we are ubiquitous. We are wide ranging and our audiences as well. So I think anytime that we can do that across programs, we're going to be better.

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20:57Follow and listen to Reality Gaze wherever you get your podcasts.

21:05Let's go to SportsCenter for a little bit. SportsCenter, it was the very first show, I believe, in 1979. It was a SportsCenter. It's identified with ESPN. And of course, it's gone through a myriad of changes as highlights have become ubiquitous. what describe sports center to me right now news and personality really like that those are the two words that i filter everything through in that in that effort um highlights are foundational they always will be um but the way we tell the story through those highlights is really important and i think this iteration and that's not to speak ill of anything that we've done previously because it's obviously led us to this point.

21:55And that point's been very successful. But I think moving forward and where we are right now, really leaning into the personalities of our talent to tell stories across the board, through their interviews, through their interactions with analysts, through highlight packages, through monologues. How do we tap into those unique personalities and then build unique sports centers? So a Randy Scott, Gary Streisky sports center is going to feel different than a Scott Van Pelt SportsCenter, which will feel different than a Kevin Nogandhi, Christine Williamson SportsCenter. And that's a good thing. Each episode of SportsCenter should reach a different audience.

22:39And I think you're going to find, if you watch the 7am SportsCenter, you might not be up to watch SVP. And that's okay, because there is an audience for that as well. And that audience is expecting something a little bit different because it's Scott. So that's been a primary focus over the past year or so, is bringing in the right chemistry, the right mix of talent to make sure that each day part reflects the audience expectations. You know what's so interesting about that to me is it sounds like you described, what was the Jamel Michael Smith one, the six. It's like, okay, we're going to develop a sports center around the personalities of hosts.

23:21Was it too early to do that? Why did the six not work? Because it sounds like that's what you're describing. It's a great question. I wasn't in the middle of that. I can't speak to why that show didn't perform the way that certainly the people involved had hoped. What I can say is that the additions that we're putting together now have to come back to a passion for sports, a love for sports. Everything is filtered through the lens of what has happened that day or the day before, the night before. So for Gary and Randy, that's a little bit sillier. And I think it probably wouldn't work at 6 p.m.

24:08I think there's an expectation at 6 p.m. of a certain type of sports. I want it serious, right? A little bit serious. A little bit, a little bit, but like even, even that, like, um, Nagandi had, um, a tops, a one-on-one tops card valued over seven figures on Friday here on, on campus. Cause he loves collecting cards. Um, and he spoke to Oral Herschizer to, to tee up the segment. And it was, it was like a little silly. It was a little goofy. Like not everybody's a card collector, but because it's, it's Nagandi and the audience has equity with him and trust in him they're willing to go down that path and get into like i don't collect cars but i'm like kevin loves this stuff so i'm i'm riveted like it was an ad for two minutes i'm like huh funny because when you said nagandi yeah i have i have no like uh kevin i happen to like him too uh temple grad let's get a shout out to philly uh there my son went to temple um but uh when you said personalities like i'm trying to think of his like he's a really nice guy i'm trying to think of His personality is that he collects cards.

25:11He loves to collect cards. And we're not making an entire show around that, obviously. But when there are opportunities to unlock that, and I think coupling him with Christine Williamson has been awesome for us. Because her personality plays off of his so well. Because she is so effervescent. And so, you know, I would new school, I think. I think, I mean, like you made reference earlier about a TikTok, right? A TikTok reel that you saw of a SportsCenter anchor. And it wasn't Christine. But by the way, I got to look at my son sent me a TikTok reel by a SportsCenter anchor that just made him laugh.

25:58Yeah. And I didn't recognize the anchor. And I covered this stuff. I felt terrible about it. But I think what you see is anchors like Gary and Randy and Christine. She pulled Matt Barry into it when she was hosting the 2P with him. You know, Scott, Michael Leaves and Nicole Briscoe. Like all of them are embracing cross-platform content. And it actually helps us as producers because then you can start to see that personality demonstrate itself. And like, okay, so let's pull this and bring this into this show. and let's pull this and bring it into that show and really unlock these things. And so it doesn't really necessarily feel like some big creative swing, like, oh boy, look at us.

26:40We're doing personality and sports center. It's a much more natural integration of that chemistry. And it goes back to the authenticity that we talked about that made Pat so successful. If you infuse that into these shows, that's going to resonate with people and it's going to make them want to stick around. so going back to some of the complaints about the six when it happened it was like uh yeah i i just want highlights i had i and interviews and uh what's the role of highlights and interviews in the current sports center so i hear i hear the highlights complaint all the time and it's the immediate tell that they're not actually watching sports it's like bro we are doing we started highlights we are only doing highlights like the first that's all i see on the espn is the first 10 to 12 minutes of that show are pure highlights almost almost non-stop we launched uh sports center plus on on disney plus um and the entire premise was we're just going to do highlights for 10 minutes as fast as we can just boom boom boom boom boom so i think that complaint is rooted in some notion or or or time of espn that just frankly doesn't exist anymore maybe it did i I wasn't around when it did, if that's the case.

27:54The sports centers that we're doing now and the shows that we're doing now, like the whole premise is built on the games have happened. We are going to bring you the news, the highlights of those games and discuss them and analyze them.

28:18uh espn sports center in 2030 an impossible question to answer but i know you think i know you think about this on mars i mean obviously it's gonna be great we're building a colony will elon be a host who can say yeah The money's right. In your mind, how is it going to change?

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