Fanatically Speaking

0:04Congratulations! You made the Varsity podcast. My name is John O 'Ran and I am Buck's sports correspondent and the host of this pod. And welcome to one of the biggest summer sports weeks in probably decades. Seriously. I'll be in Philadelphia at the beginning of the week for baseball's All-Star Game. Then at the end of the week, you have the World Cup Final. But what I find so interesting about this week is what comes in between. Fanatics Fest starts in New York on Thursday, and this will be the third edition of Fanatics Fest, which, in my private email earlier this week, I originally described as sports version of Comic-Con.

0:45But my editor, John Kelly, correctly upgraded that to Beatlemania. It's crazy. The growth of this thing over just three years has been incredible to watch, totally unexpected. In fact, ESPN moved the ESPYs to New York for the first time in years, in part to draft off the popularity of Fanatics Fest. So for today's varsity, we're going to lean into this event. We're bringing back Michael Ratner to the podcast. He's the CEO of Fanatics Studios and is overseeing the new look ESPYs. It's crazy to think about the ESPYs turning 33 years old this year. 33. I know people like to bash it, but it's part of the sporting culture.

1:28And I'm eager to talk to Michael Ratner about the differences to expect from its close association with Fanatics Fest this year. That's going to be a good conversation. Then we're going to be joined by Lance Fensterman. He's the CEO of Fanatics Events and is probably the person most responsible for the crazy growth of Fanatics Fest. Lance has a background with Comic-Con, hence the Comic-Con of sports. And I'm eager to talk to him about his vision around this event, what he's done to grow it into the monster event that it is, and what kind of growth prospects it has moving forward. So what am I watching this week?

2:05Fanatics Fest and the ESPYs. Let's get right to Michael Ratner, followed by Lance Fensterman. Michael Ratner, I thank you, first of all, for rejoining the pod. I just described this as probably the busiest summer week in decades in the United States, from baseball all-star game, the World Cup final, WWE is having an event in Madison Square Garden. And you, of course, are bringing over the ESPYs to New York and doing Fanatics Fest as well. um the the really just the whole growth of of of fanatics fest and and and having the espies draft off it is is uh pretty incredible um when you were on this pod about six months ago i think we talked about the espies and you were talking about that you know the need for kind of a revamp uh a little bit walk me through like when people tune in on on uh wednesday for the espies how is it going to look feel different what what what what is your vision around this award show i think it's been amazing well first off thanks for having me back um it's great to see you it's also scary it's been six months um that that flew by in some respects um so we we have an amazing team uh you know with with connor and his whole team and and and craig and the whole espn team at Burke.

3:36And I think it's been an amazing mix of creativity and relationships with talent. I think Marcelo as the host is going to really execute on a lot of what you and I talked about, which was just making it fresh, making it young, a little left of center, irreverent, but then really honoring some of the greatest athletes. And yeah, like you said, it's a busy, busy next whatever it is, seven, eight days. It's a total sprint. And I think that a lot of these synergies and what's going to make sports week, so to speak, so special in New York, you got the World Cup final and you've got WWE Saturday night and you've got Fanatics Fest and you've got the ESPYs and we're doing Fanatics Fest All Access.

4:18We brought coldest balls to Fanatics Fest. There's a lot of really exciting things happening. And I think part of the magic of people being able to be in so many places at once is going to really shine bright and make these things amazing. It's also caused a lot of just no sleep. You know, everybody's grinding and there's a million events. There's double, triple people, but it's pretty cool. Sports Week, is that how you're branding it? I certainly think that's what's coming. I mean, I think, you know, there's something to do. If you're a fanatic, if you're a fan and you want to go be in and around sports and culture, this is the place to be.

4:57And I think it's really cool how we're approaching it, where there's parts of it that are for media and social media and so that it could really be received globally. You know, there's the FIFA presser, which obviously is going to be happening from Javits Center. And I think in addition to that, there's a lot of stuff that's for the community in real life, for collectors, for fans who want to go get autos and photos. So there's something for everybody. And it's really just cool how it's multi-sport and it's multi-day. Right. I mean, the fact that we're going to push up to, you know, call it around a couple hundred thousand people going in and in and around Javits Center over those four days is just unbelievable.

5:33You know, right before we hit air, you were talking about how new this really is and how big it's become in short order, likening it to almost Comic-Con for sports. And it is it's something like that. And it's just a spectacle. You really got to go experience. I'm still upset you're going to be in D.C. well you know i uh we're going to talk a lot about this with lance but when you know you're coming up on the third year of fanatics fest and when it was first described to me it made no sense like if you want to see these athletes you go to the games right or you watch it on television and so uh anybody i was very skeptical three years ago well when i found out about it but anybody that sees a growth of fanatics and sees like i've seen people trying to get in and trying to get tickets and it's uh it's been like a real one of the biggest surprises of something that i've ever covered just in terms of i not not understanding not understanding the uh popularity of something that was about to launch uh really caught me off guard yeah i think it's a testament to i mean you'll talk to lance about this and and of course michael's a force of nature and just everybody on senior leadership all the way down to you know anybody who touches this event it's a year round grind to make something as big and impactful as as fanatics fest and you know i think the buy-in and excitement of turning this thing from a trade show to ultimately just an absolute sports festival and spectacle has been magical and like you said like it just keeps getting bigger and bigger in an organic way but there's all sports there um you know the biggest stars in the world, everybody from LeBron to KD, I mean, you name it, cross all sports come and are on panels.

7:17And then there, there's stunts. And there's, you know, it's not just sort of like more commoditized content that you really could just watch on your on your laptop or at home. It's stuff that you want to be a part of. There's a real community experience there. And I do think also the way that we've integrated other synergistic brands for experiences there and all the partners that we have included, whether it's exporting goods or Starbucks or, you know you name it uh target there's really really cool experiences that bring together an interesting mix of people so um yeah it's been it's been fun to watch it grow uh and i think anytime you start something like this you're never exactly sure exactly what it will become or how all the pieces will come together but i think having the buy-in of all those superstars and seeing them in a slightly different light you know you you call out well just go to the game if you want to see the players but this is in a very very different way and you're going to learn something You're going to have fun.

8:09You're going to get a photo. You're going to be able to, you know, get close to the players and see them in a totally different way. So I think that's partly what makes it so special. I want to get back to the ESPYs for a quick second. And I know you're not going to give us any spoilers, you know, and I'm not asking for any spoilers. But when you talk about the need to, you know, get younger and then sort of need to be more relevant, like at a 50 ,000 foot level, like what are you talking about? I'm still trying to get a sense of how this year's ESPYs is going to look different than the last. That's another one, by the way, that's 33 years old, the ESPYs.

8:49How is this going to look different than the last 30 years? Yeah, I was sitting here with Connor the other day, Connor Schell, and talking about just the legacy of the show. He's done many of these. The first one we're doing. And I just think part of that is in leaning into the simple fact that social media plays a huge role in how the world and how the audience will receive something like this. whether it's the Oscars, the Emmys, the Grammys, the BET Awards, you name it, frequently what you catch and what really goes viral, so to speak, are the bits and pieces that you end up seeing on your phone in real time before you sit down if you're not going to watch it live, live.

9:33So being aware that digital is a huge piece of how people are ultimately going to consume this and they might consume it in bite-sized pieces and being aware of that. And that's everything from the pre-show and the red carpet all the way through the events and some of the awards. So I think we've been really thoughtful about what does that mean and who should we be putting together and what do these packages look like and how's it all intertwined in a way that leans into the multimedia nature of what an award show looks like, should feel like today, and ultimately how it's consumed by a sort of broader range demo.

10:06So yeah, without being too vague or throwing word jumbo at you, you know, it's the idea that you're cognizant of of the casting, right? And you're cognizant of then ultimately, what are some of the sketches? And, you know, think about Marcelo, like he's an intentional host for something like this. And you think about his day job, and some of the SNL digital sketches and things like that, we're going to lean into all that stuff. And I think you're going to get to see him pop up. And I think, you know, again, if you were to watch his social media over the course of the next seven, eight days, maybe that will, or even less now.

10:42Well, you know, you'll start to see what I'm talking about. And then again, really thinking through the awards and where things are placed and how it all ties together. When you talk about the social aspects or the clippable aspects, is that unique to award show? I mean, you're overseeing all of Fanatic Studios, so you do, you know, a lot of different content than just like an award show. Is that unique to the award shows? Not at all. Not at all. I think that's the unique framing in the way that we approach stuff, whether it's a brand deal, whether it's a award show, whether it's a television show, whether it's a podcast, whether it's a video podcast.

11:25I really think that being cognizant that when you're creating something, you have to be serving a few different audiences all at the same time is is is worthy exercise. And it's vital towards something really clicking and working. And that could be hard to do. But whether it's something like we're about to have a big announcement on our original side this Tuesday, that's going to run over the course of a couple of years, an unscripted multi part series. but all the while we're thinking about the Easter egging and what can we release and allow fans to be a part of the journey until we're ready to release the premium long form version of that.

12:02I think that's something that is a newer possibility. It's just, you couldn't have done it before social. It wouldn't have worked the same way. You didn't have that same DTC capability where through somebody's social channels, you could reach millions of people with what you want them to see at that time and invite them in. So they're a part of the experience. So we're constantly thinking about that. And, you know, I believe that that blend of traditional and new media, so to speak, is is one of the differentiators on why something like the flag football classic, which, of course, happened and happened in a different way than we had thought it would when you and I spoke was so viral.

12:37You know, I talked to you about that event and how we intended for it to be perceived and viewed on Fox, but that we were going to do. And then I was speaking vague as well at that time. But now you know what I'm talking about with all those events that we put in and around that. There was just as much excitement and buzz from some of those dinners and events that were on the periphery as there was on the game. And, of course, we had the shocker of the flag team showing up and being so incredible. But I think that there's really this unique approach of creating surround sound around these events that can start that that that is not just what you're putting up on on the on the TV.

13:11It's also what's on people's phones and how are they receiving it. And it's that it's all of those things that wants that are so powerful. You've been doing this long enough. You can probably pick out like, oh, that's a moment as it happens. That's going to go viral. Is that a learned skill? Like, is that something that that has developed? it's so funny i just said this to somebody the other day i said i hope that uh skill as you refer to it doesn't run out anytime soon it eventually will right i mean you know i it and what i mean by that is it's partially proximity to culture and and understanding and age and things like that i do i i believe that i can anticipate when something is going to go viral and when it's going to catch on, when it's going to permeate and just sort of exist and people are going to start sharing it.

14:03You know, I think it's like a combination of taste and then repetition, right? Years and years and years of sort of studying what goes on. I don't do it in an algorithmic way. I'm not studying the back end of the YouTube algorithm to think about what's going to work. It's really sort of assessing a combination of why we think something's going to work. So, you know, take the Kevin Durant CeraVe spot was just, you know, swept up and won six Can Lion Awards. I think it was leaning into an internet trope about, you know, his, his, that he doesn't use lotion and then, you know, Easter egging something into the Twitter conversation, the X conversation, and then releasing the spot.

14:49And then you watched it blow up and become, you know, this massive spot that actually had KPI driven sales increase for CeraVe and L 'Oreal, which was awesome to see. Or since we spoke, you know, the Kendall Jenner spot and seeing Cher of Voice go up so dramatically for fanatics betting and gaming and, you know, leaning into an internet trope. So I think, yeah, it's really studying sort of where is that intersection of sports and culture? You know, another one we're about to do, which is just so fun it's just fun is you know jordan woods and her orange bag that was the good luck term that she brought to all the knicks finals game that's going to be enshrined at fanatics fest for people to interact with so i think it's just really thinking through some of these moments and leaning in and not taking it so seriously but thinking about where's that opportunity to have some fun you know what i i love about all your examples none of them hit with my demo my demo just being me going to see a bag yeah come on who wants that michael you know about that story no so jordan woods uh carl she's wonderful carl anthony towns fiance uh brought an orange bag to all of the games the next one and the only one that she didn't bring it to the game they lost was when president trump was there they they weren't able to bring in bags that weren't you know um that you couldn't see through so it became this sort of online excitement uh around the bag and it's an orange bag nick's orange so again it's just but but leaning into these things and these those are things you could quickly pass by or be like that's just so fun and you know it's actually uh it's living at the guggenheim right now and then we're bringing it over to fest so i just think there's there's such stories in all of this stuff and there's you know like you said You could go see these guys play, these guys and girls play, and you could go and experience the game itself.

16:38And that's a great community experience. It's something that will never, ever go away. Nothing will replace the game. But there's so much excitement around that. And I think that that's also a community experience. And the more you can lean into these stories and have people be a part of it and talk about it and find other like-minded people and ways to engage in the hobby and collecting. It's just it's a really fun. It's like a it's like the greatest variety show. It's like a sports lover's dream. So, you know, I think that to answer your question, the the thought that goes into what will make something go viral, why will people care about it is something we spend the most amount of time doing.

17:18And I think that, you know, as long as we keep listening and watching trends and trying to get ahead of trends, we'll continue to be really strong at that. You know, one of the other things that you mentioned that I find interesting is just the amount of work that you do with brands. You know, you mentioned like Starbucks and Target and especially for, you know, this coming week. How did that business develop? I mean, that's a business. I talk to other people like Omaha Productions and Words and Pictures, you know, all these people. They all talk about that being sort of a real burgeoning business for their companies.

17:55yeah i think you know this weekend whether it's starbucks or raising canes or footlocker we're doing a really cool um disney collab that roger goodell is going to actually uh be a part of with the nfl that's an amazing collection um dick sporting goods like you said so there's tons of these brands activating and we don't really look them at as sponsors they become partners of the event, I think that brands are well aware that there are new ways to disrupt and break through the clutter. There's just so much stuff out there. So how do you go and break through? And I think in many examples, putting up a traditional linear TV spot and putting a bunch of media behind that isn't necessarily the way to break through.

18:36And even if you do get that spot up in front of a lot of people, they might look the other way or look down on their phone. So you're spend all this money for people to look away. If you reallocate some of those media dollars to actually put it into the content itself or into the talent in the content itself, it's our belief. And I think many of those people that you named their belief that if you make the content stronger, you could spend more money on making amazing content that people are actually going to want to share versus putting the money into making sure it just gets in front of everybody.

19:04So it's a real rebucketing of funds that are there. And if you do that effectively, and you are able to subtly integrate your brand into that content, and it's not a commercial first trying to tell somebody to buy something, but instead it's entertaining and something they're going to want to watch or it's funny or it's interesting, I believe then it will have uplift for your brand and people are going to go out and you're going to blend the audience and the customer without them even being hyper aware that that happens. And it's because it's exciting and it's authentic and it's interesting. So everybody wins in that example.

19:38And I think that's what a lot of what we're doing at Fanatics Fest looks and feels like. Some of the opportunities and places and kid zones and different things that we've built a lot of times since last year building are just so synergistic between Fanatics and these other brands. It's the same person that you're speaking to. So I think that that's becoming more and more commonplace with a lot of the companies that you just described and certainly with what we're focusing on. Give me an example of one that that has really worked like if somebody has if somebody bring this up brings this up to you and and you you just have that one example or well for example i mean if i if i'm thinking of it i'm thinking like some of those apple shows you know where every other every other scene they're talking on an iphone or they're they're using a mac or something along those lines yeah i mean i would give an example of things that we've done that are truly branded content and you could almost just drop the word branded, take a show like Kevin Hart's Cold as Balls, which I think you and I spoke about last time.

20:43But it's as authentic as it gets. It's an old, you know, it was an Old Spice program for almost a decade. And, you know, at the end of the day, that's a show that people would go to for sports and culture and news. And the episodes get millions and millions of views. And Old Spice was integrated seamlessly into the programming. And then actually we flipped it on its head in the later seasons where we actually went really hokey and did these like strong cutaways where he was like being kevin was being smooth but he was like overdoing it promoting uh the product and that was just part of the irreverent old spice brand where you know he would very naturally say to like the athlete like oh did you ask me a question about this old spice moisturizing spread and the athlete would be like i have no idea what you're talking about and he'd go no i heard you and then he'd cut the promo and hold it up and in a really unnatural way which again made it actually took something where traditionally you'd try to be as smooth as possible instead went the total other direction i think audiences love that we weren't trying to um you know be slick so i think a show like that has gotten billions and billions of views and and done over 100 episodes with old spices the part that's a great example think of what you're talking about with the brand being involved um and it's it's allowed it's an example of a show started you know was on youtube and then it had second windowing on peacock um and then we started doing live versions of the show with audiences there so we did it at super bowl and then at fanatics fest so that's a great example um another one that comes to mind is is with dick's sporting goods um and the whole ecosystem we built with speed with i show speed um who's obviously been at i think every fifa game known to man this entire run uh but but a huge content creator um you know really just uh you want to talk about somebody who understands culture and has his finger on the pulse like anything he does right people run and flock to it so we decided to do a march madness uh footwear uh linear commercial with with speed for for dick's sporting goods and then that led to a much larger ecosystem play with speed goes pro which is a youtube show um where he learns from different athletes how to go to pro in their respective sports and that has dick's sporting goods branding throughout and they're the partner on it and then speed will show up at the dick's sporting goods activation at fanatics fest with all of that integrated so now all of a sudden you have the javits center integration callback you've got a youtube show you've got a linear commercial so i think when you think about all that it's just a new way of doing things where the brand is really making bets and becoming partners with the content creators and the producers and that's pretty exciting and and there's definitely a lot more where that came from so i think part of the ability to make this festival as big and special as it is for fans is to find, you know, revenue and partners that have like-minded interests.

23:35And then they're going to sell more because they're there. And ultimately it's a, you know, it's a, it's a feedback loop that has everybody winning and there's no, there's no downside. Michael, I know how busy you are this week and at the beginning of next week. Can't thank you enough for taking the time to join us today. And hopefully I'll see you next week. Good luck with everything. I'd love to see you at the ESPYs. And thanks for having me as always.

24:03This summer, I'm shopping the small space solutions that America waited 250 years for at Bob's Discount Furniture. Bob's has everything from retro chic bedroom sets with plenty of storage, party-ready dining sets in four fun colors, stylish and space-conscious Bobopedic sofas to feature-packed power recliners that let me kick back all summer long. So when you're ready to snag latest trends in small space styling, stop in or shop online at Bob's Discount Furniture, where America shops for furniture. Well, we just had Michael Ratner on to take us through the ESPYs and some of the production elements going through Fanatics Fest.

24:43But here is an interview that I've been really looking forward to. uh lance fensterman coming in the ceo of fanatics events and somebody who essentially created this fanatics fest uh and so um before we talk about this here i i just want to go back three years because i was talking about this with ratty a little bit like like when when you launched this three years ago i was among the biggest skeptics i just i i didn't see a market out there for people to go see athletes unless they were competing on a court or on a field. What did you see? What was the opening that you saw? Just sort of, you know, more big picture, more like 50 ,000 foot.

25:28Like, why did you think that this was going to work three years ago? Well, first of all, I don't know if we did know it was going to work, but it seemed like a great idea. Essentially, Michael Rubin called me up one day and said, why isn't there a Comic-Con for sports? and at the time I was running New York Comic Con as well as about 40 other big pop culture fan events all over the world and it was a really compelling question why is there not a Comic Con for sports? There's fan fests, right? MLB does an amazing fan fest at All Star which is happening next week you see different leagues doing it, teams do it but there was not a platform for sports that was unified that brought all different types of fans of all different leagues and all different sports and all different teams together to celebrate passionate fandom for the world of sports and collectibles and culture, where those things collide.

26:22So the hypothesis was, why not? Why not be the ones to build that platform, like South by Southwest or CES or Comic-Con or Coachella, but all for sports fan lovers? And so that was the basic premise that we launched in 2024. for so as you went forward the comic-con of sports is is a way that people have always described is what's different what is different about the sports business from from comic-con it's so much more mainstream culture right in my prior life everything I did was very counterculture where sports is mainstream and only getting more mainstream, right? If you're watching something live, not streaming, it's probably sports.

27:13The investment into the space is massive. It's collision with culture and fashion and media and entertainment and licensing and products. Sports is pervasive. It's one of the great shared experiences that exist in culture today. So I I think the biggest thing is just how much more mainstream and massive it is and interconnected into all other parts of culture, society, and entertainment. So when you got – I'm sticking three years ago. We are going to get to present day, and then we're going to go to the future as well. But three years ago, when you were getting this started, when did you get an inkling that, yeah, this is a hole that we can fill?

27:59it was honestly if i'm being totally candid it was it was saturday night of the show we'd sold a lot of tickets and so there was certainly an embrace but i think it was saturday night because i'd then seen fans walking around and experiencing what we'd created and the response was passionate the response was electric the idea of bringing all sorts of different fandoms of sports together in one place, again, the unique proposition that has never really been done before, was working. People loved it, right? That collision of entrepreneurialism and culture and entertainment and collecting and sport was working.

28:42People were embracing it. I think it was really Saturday night that it felt like this has a momentum unto itself that validated everything that we'd uh dreamed of and hoped for so um you know uh michael rubin wanted to bring you over you did the new york comic-con and so so you're a natural person to to see this through back again three years ago back when you were developing the first comic conference sports what were some elements from comic-con that you brought over that didn't work in this in the sports business You know, it's actually interesting. So in Comic-Con, you can get celebrities, whatever that means, right?

29:26To different people, that means different things. And they'll come and they'll sign photos and autographs. And you give them a guarantee and they'll come and they'll do it, right? In the world of sport, it was a little bit different. It took some convincing to get that experience. But then beyond that, in the world of Comic-Con, we're very big on panel culture. So you bring these celebrities together and they go on stage and they talk about making that film, making that TV show, and fans loved it. So once we convinced athletes, great, sign, do photos. That wasn't too tough. it was then let's get on stage and we're going to pair you up with either uh you know a media figure or an entrepreneur or a cultural icon and you're going to talk that was like wait a minute like that's not something we normally do so it wasn't so much that it didn't work and more so that it took some convincing for some of these athletes that that people would want to hear them right we we had a great idea of let's do let's do reunions of great sports films like get the cast and then get an athlete that loves that movie.

30:33And that was like, wait, what? Why would anybody want to watch me? And I'm like, just trust me. People will fill a theater to watch these sorts of conversations take place. And it was kind of predicated on this idea that, you know, there's plenty of places to talk about the game-winning hit, the game-winning drive, the game-winning shot. There aren't as many places to talk about the impact on culture, the mashup of entrepreneurialism, collecting and the hobby, et cetera, et cetera. And this was a unique platform to do that. if we could convince the athletes that they wanted to hear it. All right, so let's fast forward now.

31:08I've been very open about how skeptical I was three years ago. I'm blown away by the popularity of Fanatics Fest in New York. Are you? I'm humbled by the embrace. I do think that having an organization like Fanatics, and we have so many assets and so many resources to work with, we really were one of the only, if not the only entity, I think, that could build something like this. So I tend to be a pretty humble person. So I think of it as less that like, wow, we pulled out something miraculous and more that we were able to leverage all of the wonderful assets and the relationships and the resources at our disposal, all pointed at fans to deliver something incredibly special for them.

32:02And when you do that and you do it well, you have all those assets and resources at your disposal. Fandom tends to reward you by saying, I'll embrace this. I'll come back. So I think it was surprising and more so though it was humbling that we were able to do our jobs well enough and use those tools to fulfill a vision and that that vision was embraced. That's very gratifying. So having you on here is great. The growth from three years ago has been pretty big. As you look at that growth, what strikes you the most? Where we can go. It's really cool to look back. That's my next question, Lance. Come on.

32:43I'm doing my best to be a good guest here. I'm trying to be led well. I think what's exciting about it is absolutely the embrace of the concept, the growth where we've been able to launch platforms like Fanatics Games, where we had this idea of a competition at the show and taking 50 athletes and 50 fans and letting them compete for millions of dollars of prizes. That worked. People embraced it. Awesome. Let's double down. Let's invest. And it's really gratifying to have an idea, put the idea into the market, to the community of fans, those fans embrace it, and then having the opportunity to say, cool, let's invest.