Inside MLB’s Netflix Experiment

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1:16Andrew Marchand:Congratulations, you made the varsity podcast. My name is John O 'Ran and I am Puck's sports correspondent and the host of this pod. And today, Andrew Marchand returns to the varsity. Andrew is a great media reporter for The Athletic and a friend of mine. And when he comes on the pod, we try to recreate the phone conversations that we have during the week. So I think you're going to find this to be a lot of fun. But before we get to Andrew Marchand, today is Wednesday, March 25th, and here's what I'm watching. I want to offer a short eulogy to CBS News Radio. And I want to amplify comments made by Trog Keller, who used to run ESPN Radio.

1:54Andrew Marchand:In a LinkedIn post, Trog spoke about how CBS's decision to shut down CBS Radio follows a trend of shifting resources to digital. But, as Trog wrote, radio remains the single largest reach medium in the United States. And in a landscape where consumer acquisition costs are rising and attention is increasingly difficult to capture, such reach is not a legacy artifact. It's a strategic asset. Trollg argues that a hybrid model would treat radio not primarily as a standalone revenue line, but as a top-of-funnel distribution engine that feeds CBS's higher-value digital properties. Short-form radio updates, breaking news segments, top-of-the-hour reports, they could all be tightly integrated with calls to action directing listeners to podcasts, streaming coverage, mobile platforms.

2:47Andrew Marchand:In Charles' mind, the decision to shut down CBS News Radio risks trading a competitive advantage, that's mass distribution, for a more crowded and expensive fight for attention online. And a leaner and integrated radio operation would have preserved that advantage while still aligning the company with the future of media. It's hard to argue Charles' view and I happen to agree with him completely. Now, let's get to Andrew Marchand. Andrew Marchand, thank you for joining the pod. First question, I want to make it an open-ended question about the baseball season. Today is going to be opening night for baseball, Wednesday night.

3:29Andrew Marchand:You are a baseball fan. You've been a baseball beat writer. You're now one of the best sports media writers in the country. Give me your sense. what are some of the big storylines that you're focused on in terms of baseball this season? Well, in terms of on the field, I mean, it's hard to focus on the field in terms of what we do because of the labor strife that could be coming at the end of the year. And then, you know, media-wise, you mentioned opening day, it's on Netflix. I think that'll be a big story, how many providers that MLB and the platforms they're on. But look, baseball season's upon us.

4:09I mean, I do think, as cliche as it sounds, there is something feeling like spring.

4:15Andrew Marchand:Don't say it. Hope spring's eternal. Don't say it. Oh, my God. Well, no, no, no. I wasn't really going to say that. I was just going to say spring is in the air. We've had a brutal winter basically across the country. And you kind of feel like, all right, it might be, even though it's still freezing. I remember, you know, I covered the Mets. I covered the Yankees. and I think it might have been a rule that opening day had to feel like November because it always, especially when I was a young kid covering the Mets at Shea Stadium and off of Flushing Bay, you used to always have just a, whatever the temperature was, just subtract good 10 to 15 degrees in Flushing at the old Shea Stadium.

4:54But yeah, it's fun. I mean, I think that's the excitement.

4:57Andrew Marchand:I have tickets for Saturday to the Camden Yards, and I just looked. The high temperature is like mid-40s, which in Maryland, you may as well put on a parka for that. My little trick is you don't go to opening day. Too many people go to opening day. You go to the second game, get the bunting still up and able to watch everything. You know, that is, look, there's a reason that most of the teams want to be on the road early in the season. I mean, there always was the thing, well, why don't all the dome teams play early? Why don't they just play in the south and the west early? Well, the reason is because kids are in school and less people attend those games.

5:37You obviously have to even it out, and those clubs don't really want the early season games because when school's out, summer comes, the attendance goes up.

5:48Andrew Marchand:Netflix has the game tonight. They have the all-star game. They're going to do the game from Iowa, the field of dream game that uh that uh fox had the a couple years ago um what what is success for this is a two-part question what is success for netflix first of all and also for baseball beyond of course just you know engagement and viewership you know the amazing thing about netflix to me is for them this is sort of just an experiment can they make opening day and events And as much as Rob Manford wouldn't want to hear this, but could it be akin to Tyson Paul, where it's a cultural event? The baseball fan is going to find opening day.

6:35I do think that for people like you and me who cover this, who live this every day, the idea that this game is going to be on Netflix is old news to us. I do think a lot of people are going to say opening day. Wait, where is it on? Oh, Netflix. Okay. Now, a lot of people have Netflix, and that's the advantage. If you look at some of the other deals that MLB has done, Roku, which was free, but I don't know if it's not as widely used a platform. So it was really, even though no cost, fans just had trouble finding that. Peacock, you have a subscription, not as big as Netflix. So I think that's an advantage.

7:12So a little bit of an experiment for Netflix. For baseball, they have three years left on their broadcast rights for all their rights from national to local to international. And the local, not all of them, but some of them. And so they want as many people at the table as possible. I know we're going to talk about the NFL later and their impact on everything. But for baseball to get Netflix really interested, they're a trillion-dollar company like Amazon Prime Video, YouTube and YouTube TV, Apple. All these places, they want them at least as threats to the networks to drive up the prices for future deals.

7:56All right.

7:57Andrew Marchand:So you brought up the NFL. And you know what the NFL has started to do? It's been doing for a while, Thanksgiving Day games. It's a holiday. NFL is on Thanksgiving. But they've been picking out certain holidays almost, well, holidays in terms of Christmas Day games are going to Netflix, the Black Friday game that's going to Amazon. They're trying to create different areas on their schedule or dates on their schedule that can become sort of the big events that Netflix has always said, you know, that then ties in. But Netflix kind of wants to go after. Baseball has done this with opening day. It's doing it with the Field of Dreams game.

8:42Andrew Marchand:Netflix also has the Home Run Derby as well, you know, a big event. What – 162-game schedule. What else is sort of out there that you think that baseball could pull out to attract Netflix in terms of regular season? Playoffs are another story. Playoffs are big events and big games and big series. But in terms of the regular season games, where can Netflix get more interested in this? Yeah, I think the big thing that has emerged is the WBC. I think if I were Rob Manfred, I was the Player Association, I would really be considering how can we shut our sport down for two weeks every three years in the middle of the summer and have the quarterfinals, the semifinals, and the finals of the WBC with the players from Major League Baseball in full form, not in spring training form.

9:39Maybe you can extend it to make them two out of three game series or do something creative to get some more tonnage because that event resonates. That feels like a big event now. And it's international, which Netflix likes. And so the issue to me is even opening day. Baseball as a national entity isn't what it once was. It's a local sport that has a national following. So the Yankees are the biggest sellers in terms of, sorry, Tal, you're nesting people here. I know we're around the country. But the Yankees are the most popular team in terms of national following. So they get them on there. But if you look at ESPN Sunday Night Baseball, for example, they were doing a million and a half to two million fans.

10:32And it usually was two million on nights you had the Yankees and Red Sox and some other good matchups. But that's what they were doing. So are they going to get those huge, huge numbers for opening night? I tend to doubt it. Home Run Derby. The problem with Home Run Derby to me is while it's a pretty good event, the stars don't generally participate and then the Field of Dreams games it's the Philadelphia Phillies and the Minnesota Twins now at that point there's a pretty good chance the Twins aren't in contention and yes it's a cool thing but they've done it before so it's difficult these tonnage sports and baseball is the biggest tonnage sport of them all 162 games it's hard to make scarcity a thing because there's no scarcity I mean, they just they start now and they go through October and basically there's baseball every single day.

11:23And so it's hard. I mean, I don't it doesn't really fit perfectly into that eventized strategy until you get to the playoffs.

11:31Andrew Marchand:I do wonder, though, if you can do more than just sort of one off games. You see on Thursday, NBC is going to have a double header for the opening day. I guess Netflix is what MLB is calling opening night. And then Thursday is going to be the opening day for NBC. Could we on July 4th or, you know, Labor Day or Memorial Day, take every single game of that day, pull them out of the packages and say, Netflix, you have the games from, you know, 11 a.m. Eastern through to, you know, first pitch at 7 p.m. Pacific or something along those lines. I mean, that to me could potentially reach that level of being an eventized game that Netflix would be interested in.

12:19So you're saying all the games? Peacock does have one day, I think it's July 5th this year, where they're going to have all the games on Peacock. I don't know. The problem for baseball is this stuff just annoys everybody because they're one-offs out of 162. and a team like the Yankees are going to be on 10 different networks this year. You're going to need at least five subscriptions. This is a local fan. This isn't like a national fan. You need at least five subscriptions to see all their games and it will cost around$800 and that's with something I worked on with Dan Chernoff, my outstanding editor at The Athletic.

13:03and that's doing it the cheapest way possible. Most people probably cost more than a thousand because you don't just want the Yankees. I'm talking about just getting the Yankees. So it's very expensive at this point to watch all your teams. You don't have to watch all your teams' games. The problem is that when they show up on Apple every once in a while, that just frustrates everybody. You don't get your local... It's just hard. First off, where is it on a Friday? Again, people aren't focused as much as we are on this stuff. Then do I have Apple? okay I do have it alright I'm paying for that then where do I find it okay now I'm watching they don't have my local announcers I don't like that even though they do have some feeds where you can get your local radio at times and so I think those are a lot of barriers that you're not making it is it are you thinking about the fan first and I think that's what they're going to try to solve by the end of the decade when they want to change how they do their media rights

14:02Andrew Marchand:Major League Baseball returns next week with the sport riding a wave of momentum following a memorable World Baseball Classic and the most watched World Series in more than 30 years. Baseball fans are getting ready for what promises to be another season of great play on the field, interesting storylines, and entertaining events. Led by four-time MVP Shohei Otani and three-time MVP Aaron Judge, MLB's biggest stars lead an incredible crop of talented athletes playing an exciting brand of baseball that has led to increased attendance, viewership, and social engagement. In 2026, MLB welcomes two new partners in NBC and Netflix, joining Fox, ESPN, TBS, Apple, and MLB Network, bringing fans all the action.

14:55Andrew Marchand:This season, MLB will debut a new automated balls and strikes technology, bring the All-Star Game to Philadelphia as part of its celebration of the 250th anniversary of the United States, and return to Iowa for MLB at Field of Dreams. Fans can find all of the game and broadcast information at MLB.com backslash watch. Major League Baseball, there's no place like home.

15:46Andrew Marchand:of becoming ourselves. Listen to Becoming You wherever you get your podcasts.

15:56Andrew Marchand:Your editor, Dan Shanoff, I love any kind of shout out to somebody from the Washington DC area, the DMV. So well done, Dan. Here's what I find interesting about that is you and I have done a podcast now for about four or five years and I've heard you talk about that a lot. I had Gary Bettman on the pod And he said that he doesn't necessarily love the idea of being on just ESPN and Turner because all of a sudden you're losing the marketing value of adding in more teams. Jessica Berman of the NWSL said almost exactly the same thing, that she doesn't want to just be with one platform because fans, they might complain, but they do find it.

16:40Andrew Marchand:And they come and they get to the games. So while it is certainly a complaint that I hear from people that are not, friends of mine that are not in the business, I think people in the business see a value of spreading their games around as many different outlets as they possibly can. take a look at the NFL. I mean, when we start to talk about them and their media rights deals, you have NBC, Fox, ABC, ESPN, CBS, Amazon, YouTube, Netflix, and it keeps going on, the number of different outlets, and nobody will deny the popularity of the NFL. Yes, but I do think you're talking about different sports there.

17:26I think baseball at this point in their lifespan. You can tell me that younger people don't like as... I don't know. I look at stadiums all across the country. They're filled most of the time. So I think baseball is very popular. So I don't know if baseball needs it. If I'm the NWSL or even the NHL, maybe that's more of a factor, especially NHL in the US, where you want to get your game out there in more places to reach people. And you're right. You don't want a closed garden. It's more how accessible it is. I think the best deal, if you're a fan right now, is UFC because you went from having to pay pay-per-view for the big fights on ESPN plus the ESPN plus subscription.

18:11Now you got one. You can basically$60. You can get everything for the whole year. And then they're going to be on broadcast as well. So in theory, more people will see it cheaper. And that's a win. So I don't know. So I think if you make it hard, I think this is like, I've made this point to people from the NFL, is that the NFL is so dominant, nothing's going to hurt them. They're just too dominant. But I will say that if you start putting too many games on too many days, you're kind of telling me it's not as important. Not that you're telling me that, but it's going to become not that important because the great thing about the NFL is that if you have a favorite team, you can tell your wife or your husband, I just need three hours.

18:55And I need it from one to four, and that's it. And not that you might watch a little of the other games, but you don't need to tell them I need, you know, if you want to watch baseball all week, there's six games. I need 18 hours, basically a full day and a half. You got to market it, honey.

19:09Andrew Marchand:I just need, now especially with the pitch clock, I only need two and a half hours a night. That's all. True. That's all. True. I have battle scars. I covered a lot of those Red Sox, Yankee, ESPN. Oh, my God, going deep into the night. Yeah, exactly. So maybe you're right. I'd have, if they had changed the rules, the pitch clock about 25 years ago, I'd have about two years of my life back. But as the great Jim Murray said from the LA Times, famous columnist who passed away a while back, but a legend, he said, if you're in a rush, don't go to a ballpark, go to an airport. So, which I think is a tremendous line and true.

19:49So, you know, nobody's going to complain about being in a ballpark. That said, to my original point is that you just don't want to get, you don't want to be on too much and make it too difficult for your fans and too hard to understand. But I can understand that you can look at MLS and the closed garden of Apple. That probably hasn't been great.

20:10Andrew Marchand:All right, so a getaway question, an impossible question to answer, but we are in March 2026. We're going to see some sort of work stoppage, almost certainly. I hate to say 100%, 99 % we're going to see a lockout at the end of the season. Whether or not that leads to missed games is something that we'll see. And then baseball is going to start to negotiate its media deals. Right now, today, give me your best long-term prediction.

20:46well i think i'm not going to tell you which networks or platforms i know you want uh you love aggregation and headlines but i'm not giving you that john but the uh what i will tell

20:56Andrew Marchand:you is then ku right now has his fingers on the keyboard waiting to hear what you say so so what i will say is that i think the world series will be on multiple networks or platforms um i do okay let me dive into that for a quick second uh multiple platforms do you see the world series leaving broadcast television i think it's possible i think money will be the number one factor in this equation the owners much of them are still chasing the rsn money that they're losing you know places like nessen are doing well and others are doing well most of them have the you know oran orand uh the varsity podcast so they're they're all doing well to have that in chicago sport sports net la in los angeles yeah they're all doing well but the others the others the others those guys have it all down they know what they're doing but the others um so i think they'll go for the most money so where could the most money come from well amazon prime video to me has been shopping at the top of the market for things they got conference finals in the nba um they have the Masters starting shortly, only early rounds.

22:06But they got the Yankees locally. So they would be somebody I'd watch. I think ESPN, ABC will have interest in the World Series. Fox will want to retain it. Maybe this goes well with Netflix. They say we'd like the World Series. That's not exactly fitting into their plan, but maybe it does. so I don't think I think they prefer to be on broadcast TV I think the majority probably is on broadcast TV but could I see if let's say you do a seven year deal could I see one or two maybe two World Series on an Amazon Prime video I don't think that's out of the question

22:48Andrew Marchand:I think that that would be a long shot I don't think I would agree with you I don't see that as being out of the question I think it would take a lot to have baseball decide to take its crown jewel event, the World Series, and take it off of broadcast TV, at least in 2028. And the next deal after that, who knows? But I think when you're talking about these 29 deals and you're talking seven years, then you're talking the end of those deals are a decade from now. I mean, where are we going to, we don't know, of course. That's what we're always trying to figure out. But where are we going to be in terms of cable, in terms of streaming, and in terms of prime video?

23:24it's kind of hard not to see that Prime Video is going to be a pretty dominant force because of just the overall subscription that they have. YouTube as well. I mean, that's another one that I would mention. And that one, YouTube's interesting because they're so dominant viewing-wise in terms of being the number one, especially for younger people. They could possibly put that out. I think if they did it, they'd be outside of the YouTube TV, which is their paid cable-like subscription service. So if you did YouTube, then that's kind of like broadcast because, yes, some people don't know how to use it or are maybe older, but most people do, and it's pretty ubiquitous.

24:08Andrew Marchand:YouTube, to me, is the most interesting company for you and I to cover right now because it is a sleeping giant. It hired Justin Connelly, and it's been building up its sports department, and it has been slowly trying to get more and deeper into sports. And the types of rights that it's going to be able to pluck out is going to be totally fascinating to me. Let's move on. We're right now on the eve of the Sweet 16 in March Madness. I will be spending my Friday in D.C. What seems like a Final Four matchup is going to be Duke and St. John's, Michigan State and UConn. Can I hold you up there for a second just because the people need to know.