Matty Ice Quarterbacks the CBS Booth

0:04Congratulations! You made the varsity, the podcast. My name is John Arand and I am Puck's sports correspondent and the host of this pod. Today, we have Matt Ryan on the pod. Matt, as I'm sure all of you know, was a really good NFL quarterback. And during his time in the league, he gained a reputation as just a really thoughtful guy, really just a nice guy. But since retiring from the league last year, he has turned into a star TV analyst with CBS. So we're going to discuss it all. His new career, of course, and the NFL's biggest off-field issues. He has a really good perspective on all of that.

0:40But before we get to Matt Ryan, today is Sunday, September 14th, and here's what I'm watching. David Ellison. Actually, David Ellison's move to buy Warner Brothers Discovery, all of Warner Brothers Discovery, has a ton of sports media implications. Most of the reports that I've read are focused on the studio, and for good reason, not to mention CNN and some of WBD's great cable channels. But sports is such a huge component to this, and I want to spend a little time on it. This deal, if it goes through, offers even more proof that the way that most traditional media companies look to grow these days is with sports rights.

1:17TNT Sports, it may have just lost the NBA, but it still carries big-time sports that other media companies would die to have. It has baseball through the championship series. It has March Madness. It has NHL Stanley Cup finals. On top of that, it has NASCAR races, college football playoffs, and even more than that. I have a couple of thoughts about this. First of all, I think about CBS Sports. Now, this is a division that has been known for its stability dating all the way back to 1996 when it first hired Sean McManus to come in and turn things around, and he did. CBS Sports has held the rights to the Masters for 70 years, 7-0.

1:56It first carried NFL games in 1956. March Madness, well, it's had that for 40 years. It's had the PGA Tour since the 1950s. For the past several decades, CBS has rarely been in the mix for new sports. It was noticeably absent from the NBA talks, for example. But it was able to establish deep relationships with the sports that it had, and it kept those sports. Now this is CBS Sports. David Ellison signed a shocking deal to bring UFC over to the network. And now he's making a bid for TNT Sports portfolio too? David Burson is the executive who runs CBS Sports and his head must be spinning. This is not how CBS does business.

2:41And here are some of the advantages for how a deal could get done. WBD doesn't have a broadcast network, which should take away the FCC's influence from blessing the deal. And both David Ellison and his dad, Larry Ellison, have remained close to Donald Trump, which should help clear any regulatory hurdles. And money? That certainly won't be a problem. Wells Fargo believes that Warner Brothers Discovery assets are worth about$65 billion. And as my colleague Matt Bellany wrote in his excellent private email, What I'm Hearing, $65 billion may seem like a big check to write, but Larry is the richest man in the world, and he made more than$100 billion yesterday, so I think he can afford it.

3:23We are definitely in the middle of a brave new world out here. Okay, let's get to Matty Ice, Matt Ryan. So Matt Ryan, thank you very much for joining the pod. You retired from the NFL last year and then started calling games for CBS. And then this year, you went from calling games to joining the studio for CBS. A big difference there. Why did you make that switch? What is it about the studio that you just thought was going to be better than being in the broadcast booth? Yeah. So, I mean, you don't really know, right? what you're getting into when you first start in the broadcast space. And so two seasons ago was my first season calling games for CBS.

4:12And it really, that first year, I was supposed to do a mix of kind of studio and maybe a handful of games here and there. And in June, maybe mid-June, I got a call from Ross Malloy with CBS, And he said, hey, we think for this coming season, if you're into it, you'd fit perfectly with this group with Andrew Catalan and Tiki Barber. And we'd love for you to call games for the entire season. So my initial going into it was to try and get a feel for both to see what I would like. But I was kind of thrust into calling games right from the start and really enjoyed it. I had a ton of fun doing that.

4:49And I feel like I learned a ton about TV, about preparation, about getting in and out in 15-second soundbites and trying to be interesting and captivating and educating in a really short amount of time. And then that year, CBS had the Super Bowl. And so during the Super Bowl week, I was asked by CBS to do some studio work for their CBS Sports HQ Monday through Friday night and was on the desk and doing some really fun stuff leading up to that game. And then for the pregame show for the Super Bowl, there was about an hour break where the studio crew was going to be going from the Bellagio Fountains over to the stadium, kind of changing location.

5:37and myself and Jason McCourty and Ian Eagle and Charles Davis had that hour to fill and got to do some of what it's, you know, what you're asked to do in the studio. And I had a ton of fun doing it. And so then, you know, after that, I was asked by, you know, kind of the executives at CBS, if that would be something I'd be interested in. And I thought it would be, and I thought it would be a lot of fun. The opportunity to work with Bill Cowher and Nate Burleson and James Brown and JJ Watt last year was a ton of fun. So I kind of got thrust into it, you know, out of, out of kind of them asking me to go in that direction.

6:14And I've been really happy doing it. When, when you were a player, at what point did you decide that this was going to be a pretty good post-playing career for you? Honestly, not until I was done. You weren't doing the broadcast boot camps or anything like that? No. And, and, you know, part of me wishes I would have, uh, now being in the space because, you know, I do think you get thrust into it really quickly, but, uh, I, I wasn't a part of, of any of the broadcast boot camps that, uh, the NFL puts on and, and from the guys I've, I've heard from that go to it, they say it's amazing. Um, but I didn't do any of that.

6:51And I think when you're playing quarterback, uh, you know, you're, you're, you're just consumed with what you're doing at that time, right? And there's really no time for anything else. And, and my mind never really wandered until, you know, I finished up in Indianapolis and then was having conversations with my wife about what the future looked like. And, you know, and, and had really good representation, you know, Gideon Cohen, who was with, he was with Excel at the time and, and now with Athletes First, you know, I kind of got in touch with him and started to talk about, hey, what, what are some things we can do.

7:28And we met with a bunch of different people. And CBS kind of came up with this idea of doing the hybrid, you know, a little bit of games, a little bit of studio, although that never came to fruition. But we thought that would be a good place to start to kind of dip our toe in the water and see what it would be like. And that's really how I got into it. It all happened, in my opinion, really, really fast. You know, I love talking to media executives, broadcast executives like, you know, David Burson or Eric Shanks about, you know, who they think, the current player that they think is going to be really good in the booth.

7:59And their answers all revolve around the production meetings that they do sort of in the week leading up to it, which almost seems like a tryout. That's sort of where Tony Romo, even before he retired from the NFL, had networks clamoring after him just because he performed so well in those. Did you view those production meetings that way? No, I did not, you know, view them in kind of a performance matter. But, you know, I feel like for having played so long and really when the league was different, the TV structure of the league was different, where it was very NFC centric for Fox and very AFC centric for CBS, you know, playing in the NFC for so long, I felt like I got to know those crews really, really well.

8:49Whether it was, you know, Troy and Joe at the time at the top, or even as you go down and you've got Moose Johnston and a bunch of different guys that were in there. John Lynch did it for a long time. We did a number of production meetings with him, but I feel like you get to know those guys the longer you play. And I always just enjoyed kind of going in there and sitting and talking with, you know, whether it was a play-by-play or the color analyst or, you know, even the sideline reporters. I think, you know, I enjoyed those meetings. Some were a pain in the neck, you know, as a player, you know, you're just getting off the bus and you're, you know, on the road and you just want to get to your room and relax and you don't feel like doing it.

9:32But I always, for the most part, enjoyed doing those things. And but I didn't know I was auditioning. I had no idea. So you come out of retirement or you retire and CBS throws you into the booth. I could never do that. Talking in 15 second increments. Into a three-man booth nonetheless too, right? So that 15 seconds is now seven seconds, right? Yeah. And you don't know if it's your turn to talk or not, right? How many times did you talk over the play-by-play as the ball was being hiked? Well, I'd like to think I didn't. Andrew Catalano will probably tell you very differently. You know, I probably ruined a bunch of the calls that he, you know, he was, you know, getting to.

10:15But I really feel like it was, you know, the number one rule, at least from my perspective, when you're in the booth is you don't want to step on the play by play. I mean, you really don't. And you want them to set the scene. You know, Gary Danielson, I had a chance to talk with him. CBS nicely connected the two of us and had a great chance to talk to him prior to calling games my first year. And, you know, he basically said he's he's like, listen, 90 percent of this is visual, right? Like it's showing itself. The little 10 percent that you can add to it is is the key. And so don't over talk and, you know, don't overdo it.

10:58But when you have a point to make, make it, be clear about it and get out and make sure you don't step on the play-by-play's toes. And that's what I tried to do. Now, I will say with another guy, with Tiki Barber in the booth as well my first year, there was a lot of nonverbal communication going on. A lot of elbowing and, you know, kind of looking at each other as things are going on. The you, me, me or you, what are we doing? Those kind of looks. But we got better at it. It's like playing court up on the road almost, right? Yeah, exactly. Silent cadence. We were silent cadence the entire time.

11:29But I think it was a great way to learn, right? And a great way to just kind of cut your teeth and get right into it. Because the best experience, you can practice all you want, right? And we did some of those mock games and different things like that. But there's nothing like it going live. And you have to go on, and you don't know what's going to happen. And I love that portion of it calling the games, right? You prepare all week, and you have your boards and all of your prep done. And then when that ball is kicked off at 102, you have no idea what's going to happen for the next three hours.

12:03And you're either ready or you're not. And I like that kind of black and white nature to it. So I'm sure every single producer tells you as you go into the booth or on the set, be authentic. Be yourself. And that's what's going to work. But you've grown up with football. You've watched football, presumably, your whole life. who does this that you're trying to sort of pattern your style after? I think it's hard, right? Like the calling games, you know, I mean, I watched Kirk Herbstreet forever. As a young kid, whether it's college game day or watching the college games, I love Kirk Herbstreet. I think he does an amazing job in two very different settings, right?

12:47The pregame show and what they do with college game day and then moving in, moving on and calling the games. but then you know really like Troy Aikman I always thought was as good as it gets when it comes to you know being out there and calling it and I love Phil Simms too like when you know Tony was a contemporary of mine and I think Tony does an amazing job but like watching when I was younger hearing Phil Simms like I always loved the quarterback I'm driven to the quarterback's mindset right and the quarterback's eye and so listening to a guy like Phil Simms Not to interrupt you, but what did Troy Aikman or Phil Sims do?

13:25I love them talking about why a quarterback is either struggling, number one, and what the defense is doing to cause them to struggle, or why this play was successful, right? Why this big post that Jalen Hurts threw to Jahan Dotson in the opening game, why did that come open? Like, I think it's hard to tell sometimes, you know, from the angles that we have on TV, what the all 22 looks like, right? And when they can unpack that and show these really cool angles of, you know, it was just a step here by a safety coming down just a little bit that creates this separation. You can go over the top. Like, I love that stuff.

14:07I eat that stuff up. But then, you know, I also, I love listening to the play-by-play too. Like, you know, Jim Nance setting the table for, you know, the Bills versus the Chiefs in some of those games. And even when I was younger, it's like the Patriots versus the Colts and Jim Nance is on that call with Phil Sims. Those were huge, man. Those were awesome to listen to when I was young. Is it hard not to get into football talk when you get like the all 22 out there? Yeah, that's right. I mean, honestly, that was one of the number one things I thought calling games for sure was you have to get some of your vernacular out of there, right?

14:47Like nobody knows what you're talking about. So you've got to be able to present it in a way that's digestible and people can understand. And it's not always easy because your brain defaults to go to the language that you know. But that's not always the language that everybody understands. Matt, let me take a quick break, come back, and I want to talk to you a little bit about your playing career. Cool.

15:20I'd say you were a quarterback in the NFL as the NFL was exploding. So there was a ton of, you know, I keep going back to like the 1980s, maybe 1990s, where people in your role would, you know, you'd have your sort of pet reporter that you would get close to and work with a lot. Atlanta was a smaller market. How did you deal with the press? Did you just sort of go to the press conferences that you needed to go to? Or did you try to establish relationships with some of the beat writers? I had good relationships with the beat writers that we had in Atlanta. The majority of my time with the Atlanta Journal-Constitution was D 'Orlando Ledbetter.

16:05We weren't going to have a beer or anything like that. That was not our relationship. But I always thought we were really professional in terms of press conferences or any questions that he had, you know, I'd certainly answer. But also a relationship off the camera, too. Right. Saying hello, checking in, learning about each other's families and what you're into. And so, you know, I think I had good relationships there, but it changed so much. right? Like I got drafted in 2008. You're talking about the media landscape coming in and the NFL kind of exploding, but, but the world changed a lot too.

16:42It went from, you know, beat writer, uh, your local stations, you know, when I first got down there and, and, you know, some, some other national stuff to, you know, Twitter being out there and, and different types of social media. And now, now there's podcast and, and all kinds of different stuff in in-house media that they're doing. Like in-house media didn't exist, you know, when I first got to Atlanta and now they've got studios built, they've got people that are full-time staff. So it changed, um, just, it changed so much in the volume of people that you would see, you know, at the press conferences and the number of, of interviews, uh, and requests that you, you would get as a quarterback exploded towards the end of my career.

17:23One of the stories I'm seeing more and more and more recently is the advent of betting. You were there, of course, with the rise of fantasy football and just some of the comments, things that players have to deal with. You've always had to deal with catcalls and boos. I mean, hands down in 2007, I believe, I was booing you as my Terps. You guys beat us on a Saturday night down there. I was there. That was a tough loss. I was behind the BC bench, in fact. Oh, that was you. That was you who was, I remember those. Look at that a-hole sitting there. I was going to say. The voice sounds familiar, John.

18:00Yeah. First of all, did you notice a rise in that from the start of your career to the end of the career? And how did you deal with that? Yes. You know, I always thought that the fantasy football thing really exploded, you know, throughout my career, right? It got so much bigger. And I always knew it was different. Like when we would go to New Orleans, that was our main rival in Atlanta. We'd go play the New Orleans Saints. And you knew what you were in for, right? Like they were going to get on you. They were going to be all over you. But I'll never forget leaving there one time walking out of the tunnel.

18:36And, you know, one of the fans was yelling at me, whatever, because we had won the game. But then after he was done yelling, he was like, but great job for my fantasy team, man. Thank you. And it was like that was when you knew kind of the landscape of the league was changing just a little bit. But the gambling, I feel like the gambling portion of it, I never dealt with any of that. Like I never heard any of that. And I think that's because it's gotten so much more prominent in the last two or three years. It really, it wasn't huge during my time. And, you know, I hear it now. You hear the stories about college athletes or you hear the stories about professional athletes and the messages that they're getting.

19:16you know these guys are out there trying to do the best they can right and trying to do everything they can to perform as best they can to win a football game and I just it's it's not right you know it's it's not right for those kind of messages because somebody chose to to put a wager on a game which is fine you know you're well within your right to be able to do that but to be able to come at the people because the result didn't go the way you want it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. So your reputation as a player, um, was you're just a nice guy. And, and, uh, and that's, I think that came through in interviews.

19:50I think that was, that was your rep, as I said, one of the hardest things for people to do in your role is to be critical of the, of the players, not necessarily to, to, to slam them, but just to be critical. Do you find that to be difficult? So the way I view it is really the same way I would think about watching film on my own after a game on a Monday, right? You'd go in and you'd say, you know what, I got to make that play, plain and simple, right? That wasn't good enough on my end. And I think that's fair from an analyst's role is to take a look, be objective, and say, given their skill set, given what the situation was, they've got to make that play.

20:35You've got to go out there and do that. And, you know, it's not easy because you have friends all over the league, you know, and it becomes difficult when it is a friend that has made a mistake and you're like, but if they're really your friend, they know, you know, they know you would say it to their face anyhow. So I feel like it's a lot of things. Gen Z is different than your generation. They don't take criticism as well. The critiques don't go over so well. You should come to a newsroom every now and then. I'll bet. I'll bet. I'll bet. But, you know, that's part of it. And, you know, I dealt with it as a player.

21:10I've always felt like, you know, if you're watching, which is one of the things I take pride in, right, is before we hopped on together, I'm watching film, you know, trying to watch and take in as much information as I can. and it's researched and you've done the work, I think it's fair to have an opinion. I really do. And I always felt that way as a player, right? Like if somebody was critical of me, but it was valid or they had reasons why, like, okay, that's fine. And so I don't, oddly enough, I don't struggle with it. Maybe I'm not as nice as the reputation that led up to it. Maybe I'm a bigger a-hole, like you were saying, than people.

21:56Yeah, that's right. That's exactly right. Maybe I'm a bigger jerk than people think. I'm fascinated. Before you came on, you were watching film. Was that flag football film you were watching? We got a big flag football game tonight. That's what I'm told, yeah. Yes, the head coach of the NYO Falcons right here. We've got our season opener tonight. I didn't realize you were the head coach. I am the head coach, yes. The head coach and play caller. I couldn't give that to anybody else, John. Nobody else is going to call plays when I'm on the staff. By the way, my kids are all grown. I miss coaching youth sports more than anything.

22:31How fun is that? It's incredible. It really is. So I have twin boys that are seven. So I've got two boys that are on this little flag football team. And I get to coach them in football and basketball and baseball. And to be able to do that, it's just so cool, right, to kind of see them. having fun and growing and getting better and learning to win, to lose, to deal with all of the different things that come their way. I think I enjoy it maybe more than they do. Oh, you definitely do, by the way. Yes. How fun is it for you, though, to stand on the sidelines and know you know more than the person, than the coach on the other side of the field?

23:11Well, my record wouldn't indicate that. Last year, we struggled pretty bad. So I'm learning as a coach. And it's genuinely what I thought as a player. You need better players. That's it. Get good players and you'll be fine. No, you're not going to demote your twins, are you? No, no, no, no, no. So when you are critical of people in the booth, I just want to close this loop. Do you hear from them or do you hear from their agents? How receptive or open are you to taking those calls? No, I mean, I'd be happy to take any call. I haven't gotten any and haven't been fed anything. Maybe I haven't been critical enough, I guess.

23:51but haven't been fed anything from CBS about handling some of those calls. You know, I think for the most part, you know, you call it like you see it. You tell it like you see it. I mean, fans are smart. Fans are smarter now, right, than they've ever been. There's more avenues to learn football. There's more avenues to learn about players or know the storylines than we've ever had, right? And so fans are smart. And so, you know, if you're going to try and breeze over something that needs to be called out, I think fans are going to be on you for that, too. So I just try and call it like I see it.

24:27I haven't had any of those calls. But if it ever comes up, I'm happy to jump on the phone and talk to whomever. Let me take one final break. I'll come back. I want to ask you about a couple off the field issues.

24:48All right. I love asking you about this because you are a former player, of course. The idea of expanding by an added game, something that is really polarizing within the, actually, it's not even polarizing. The players seem to not want to do it. How do you stand on that? I didn't like it when we added 17. I didn't think it was necessary. I'm not sure it was additive from a competitive standpoint. It's funny. I was doing research, getting prepped. We're going into week two of the NFL. I was looking at records of teams that start 2-0, 1-1, and 0-2. Since 1990, teams that start 0-2 have a 12.2 % chance of going to the playoffs.

25:38When they switch to 17 games in 2020, teams still have exactly the same percentage of going to the playoffs, 12.2. So I don't think from a competitive standpoint, it's changed. It's changed for the better. I think it's really, really similar. So I don't think it was additive. And I still view it from the player's perspective of 16 was enough, right? Like you're taking a beating out there going through these seasons and it's hard and it's long. So I was not a fan of changing to 17. The player in me will never be a fan of adding more games. But I understand it, you know, from the league side. I really do trying to grow and trying to expand and getting rid of another preseason game and adding, you know, an extra regular season game is another weekend of games and pushing that next weekend, that Super Bowl weekend, the President's weekend.