The Beautiful (iPhone) Game

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1:20Andrew Marchand:Congratulations! You made the varsity, the podcast. My name is John Aranda, 9-plus sports correspondent and the host of this pod. And today, my buddy Andrew Marchand is back. And we're going to hit on the World Cup, baseball, the NBA, and the Netflix of it all. It's always a good time with Marchand. But before we get to Andrew, today is Sunday, May 24th. It's Memorial Day weekend, and here's what I'm watching. If you happen to watch the LA Galaxy-Houston Dynamo game on Apple TV yesterday, you saw a game that was produced entirely with 15 iPhone 17 Pros. I wanted to ignore this news. It's not even news.

1:59Andrew Marchand:It feels like a stunt. As Andrew Marchand wrote, this seems more about promoting a product than actually capturing a soccer match. Now, Apple has done this before, using an iPhone for certain shots during its Major League Baseball coverage. But now it's going all in. I mean, it most definitely is a stunt that should help goose iPhone sales. but I am interested in what this says about the future of production. Television has a long history of finding cheaper production techniques that still result in broadcast quality feeds. Now, so far, the streamers really haven't spent a lot on production. Sometimes they even contract out broadcasters to handle their productions.

2:38Andrew Marchand:And while this iPhone thing has a look and feel of a stunt, it is a stunt, it does go to show that it's becoming easier and cheaper to achieve that superior production quality that networks always boast about. Now, I'm not suggesting that the Super Bowl is headed to Meta Ray-Bans anytime soon, but I do think that we're soon entering a world where iPhone broadcasting could become as common as more traditional formats. Okay, now let's get to the athletics, Andrew Marchand. Joining us today, sports media's number one soccer fan, soccer player, I think. Are you still out on the pitch at all, Andrew?

3:18I thought you were going to say number one reporter, but anyway, I'm not. I retired a couple of years ago, did win about five co-ed indoor championships in the local gym. So we did have the stars on the shirt. So, yes, I'm a soccer guy.

3:36Andrew Marchand:I have been dining on the entry into the World Cup because there are all these scandals that are happening. The ticket prices, it doesn't look like stadiums are sold out. People are spending thousands of dollars on tickets and they don't know where they're sitting yet, whether it's going to be in midfield or behind a goal. Immigration concerns, restriction of movement in and out. The hotels are not as sold as they want to be. And I always tell people to relax. These are the stories that happen before every big event, before the Olympics, before the World Cup. As soon as the first kick happens, then the focus goes on to the game.

4:22Andrew Marchand:And Fox and FIFA and the viewing public are all going to be plenty happy with it. What's your level of concern, Andrew? with the World Cup coming up. I know, not in terms of - My first level concern, John, my first level concern, there's no such thing as first kick. All right, that's number one, okay? There's first pitch in baseball. There's no first kick. I guess there's a kickoff. Opening kick? Is it opening kick? Do we have opening day? It's just a kickoff. There's no first kick. For the true diehards listening, I just want to make that clear. I will say this. I did live in London in the late 90s.

5:01Andrew Marchand:and early on I was talking, Casey Keller, if you remember him, was the only American playing in the Premier League when I was over there. And I described him as a goaltender for Leicester City. And the Brits, they were like, he does what? He tends the goal? That's not a word. I'm like. I mean, it is. It's a wrong sport. I figured out pretty quickly that it's a keeper. Yeah. All right. So the question at hand is how concerned am I? I think there's concern. I think what your experience tells you is probably correct to a degree. I think we do see this. I don't know if we really expect it in the United States, though.

5:41I think that's, you know, that some of the people they're in Qatar, they're in Russia. I think you kind of expect that a little bit more like the chaos of the political scene and everything that goes along with it I do think it's a little different this year here this World Cup is three countries are hosting it the US, Mexico and Canada that's unique for what has been done in the past with the World Cup I don't know some of the ticket stuff does seem ridiculous the cost to go like you know i looked into getting tickets i tried the lottery uh aspect you know i could i don't get the freebies uh you know don't do any of that stuff um so they're very expensive uh seem you know pretty crazy how expensive they are uh and then the transit situation my colleague at the athletic adam crafton's been all over these stories uh and the amount of money that's going to call us to take New Jersey transits to get to the, I don't think they're not allowed to call it the Meadowlands.

6:48I don't know. You're not allowed to call it the stadiums, the actual names. You can't call it the MetLife.

6:53Andrew Marchand:It has to be, I think it's New York, New Jersey. I think it's New York City Stadium. Oh, New York, New Jersey, okay. New Jersey made sure they had to get their name in there, certainly. I would hope so. It's in their state. I get it. The New York City is New York City, but it's always odd that New York Jets play in New Jersey, as do the Giants, New York Giants. there is concern once you're right on the field the games especially the passion for soccer arguably the most popular sport in the world the world cups once every four years it's just a unique event for how important it is and how great it is so I think on the field on the pitch John on the pitch no first pitch but there's a pitch you will see uh people getting excited for that um but there is a lot around it that i do think may just make it not as uh as amazing an experience as it could be before kickoff which sounds like american football to me but before the kick the the kickoff first kick i'm gonna call let's get first kick going actually i think we should make first kick a thing yeah before that At first kick, what are the storylines for the, Aziz, senior sports media columnist for The Athletic, what are some of the storylines that you're looking at going in?

8:15Andrew Marchand:So less about like, you know, ice agents or ticket prices or restricting movement. What's on your agenda? I mean, with the media focus, I think Fox's presentation, this is their last World Cup that they have an agreement with. The next ones will be up in the air. Will Fox get it? I think there's a pretty good chance they don't. I think we're going to talk about Netflix a little later. I think that's something I could see Netflix maybe getting their hands on. They already have the Women's World Cup next year. So Fox, what do they do in their presentation? They made a huge signing. Zoltan Ibrun-Himovic who's one of the great players of this generation and also probably has the biggest personality of any player of the last 25 years.

9:06Can he be a Charles Barkley-like figure over the next four or five weeks of the World Cup? I think that's something interesting to me. And then on the pitch, I think the U.S. and how they'll do, this has kind of been something people have pointed to. This U.S. team doesn't feel like it has that great momentum that you kind of are hoping for if you root for the U.S. But strange things happen, the way the tournament's set up. I do think that's going to be an issue, again, for diehards. They've expanded the tournament. So, I mean, Italy somehow didn't advance still, but everyone else is in. And so that might water down a little bit in the group stage.

9:51but it's the World Cup it's like one of those things that they make it bigger, they're greedy about it FIFA and the game still kind of overrides because they mean so much you do something amazing in the World Cup or something unfortunate it's remembered forever it truly is remembered forever and so that's what makes the stakes so high and the drama so last time around Lionel Messi wins Argentina's World Cup for the first time since Diego Maradona. I think for Messi, who to me is probably the greatest player of all time, it just made the argument a little bit easier because he always had that one demerit that he never won a World Cup.

10:39It's a team game, so it's kind of silly in my opinion in terms of these arguments, but because their goaltender made a great save at the end of the game. and if he doesn't do that, then they lose. And so then is Messi not as good because of that? So anyway, the point is, though, you have those storylines. Ronaldo will be here. And there'll be a number. It'll be a great tournament. I think on the field, I think it'll live up to the hype.

11:08Andrew Marchand:Rule of the pod, Zoltan. You don't need to say his last name, although you did an excellent job with your pronunciation. Thank you. I did kind of get slow, though, with it. Yeah, yeah. but you're a one name guy yeah totally totally um you know you did bring up and and i do have netflix down as a topic that we're going to talk about uh later on they uh came in and got as you said the women's world cup and the unique thing about um netflix coming in and getting the women's world cup was that was a big story i mean i was i was following that from you know the negotiations and I never once heard Netflix.

11:46Andrew Marchand:Like they really sort of, that to me was their first real big step into big time sports. It's, you know, we're going to buy a month long tournament. You know, that's more than just sort of one big event. And they swooped in and it was a big surprise. Now, with this being the last time that the last World Cup event on Fox's schedule, on Fox's contract rather. Fox obviously wants to keep the World Cup. Netflix, I think it appears obvious. And I know you had Gabe Spitzer on your podcast on andrewmarchand.com said this as well, that they're interested in talking. I would imagine they're a lot more interested than just talking.

12:33Andrew Marchand:And just because of the nature of the World Cup and it being such a big event,

12:41Andrew Marchand:And these rights, I think, are going to be, you know, that's going to be a really interesting watermark for me, Andrew, in terms of, you know, one of one of the themes we've been writing about, both of us, is like the knock on effects of these NFL deals. And if it takes that, if it takes too much money out of the market, what are the leagues that really get affected? And is FIFA and the World Cup one of those leagues? I think probably not. I think that the games are too big, but but I think it can determine whether or not an ESPN would be interested in coming back in and trying to get in the World Cup or or even whether Fox says, you know, this is something that that is going to end up costing too much.

13:21Andrew Marchand:And and and we're out, even though it loves the event. How do you see this right now in 2026 sort of playing out? so i think the big thing there is that the nfl is going to impact this regardless if there are early deals or not uh because the nfl has the option to opt out at the end of the decade and so even if they they don't the nfl right now is in talks with cbs and because of a change of ownership clause in the contract. It seems pretty apparent CBS likely is going to fork over even more than the around$2 billion they already pay per season for NFL games. That might go up 500 million, maybe a billion more.

14:07We'll see where the numbers come out. And then the other networks and Amazon might say, nah, we're not going to do it till now, but they still know that they're going to have to pay more come the end of the decade. So that's going to impact baseball, which deals up in 29. Their TV deals are up in 29. And then the World Cup as well. The World Cup, I think, will get their money, though. I think when you add the digital players, could Amazon Prime Video be interested in the World Cup? Netflix. I think Apple, that's something that Apple, which hasn't gone into really the top tier sports yet. But could Apple be interested in that because it's all you can eat?

14:52I think that's not impossible to imagine Apple getting involved in something like that. And then all the networks. You're not going to get it fully globally, but you can. So domestically, you're going to still have others involved. Paramount has a lot of money now. But I do think, I don't know if I'd list Netflix as a favorite, but I think they're probably one of the favorites to get the next World Cup. I think, you know, I don't know when they'll actually auction those off, but, you know, next year, 27, there will be a little bit of a, you know, we'll see how they do with the Women's World Cup and, you know, could go from there.

15:33Andrew Marchand:Yeah, that definitely seems to be somewhat of a test case. You know, one of the reasons that the NFL loves Netflix so much, and frankly, all the streamers, is that they're global by nature. But importantly, these rights that are coming up are only for the U.S. markets. I think another another interesting aspect of this is what kind of global rights could could come up as well and could. I mean, it would cost a ton, but these are these are gigantic streamers with deep, deep pockets. Could they could they buy the everything globally and and go that route? Probably not. I mean, the market. There are so many different markets where this is, I mean, that would be extraordinarily, I just made up a word there, but that would be hugely expensive for them.

16:25Andrew Marchand:But it's something to consider. I would say that, yeah, maybe they wouldn't get all the markets, but I do think the World Cup is one of those events where you could maybe justify it. Because we can talk about the NFL and everyone likes the international rights and the global aspect of these streamers. But the NFL is becoming more of a global game, but it's not even in the same league or hemisphere as soccer. Soccer is a global game. It's played in every country. And we're kind of the emerging markets still in the U.S. as opposed to the other markets are more mature in terms of their leagues. even though the amount of money because of the United States, the audience and how things work here, still pay the most from the U.S.

17:15because it's the most valuable here. But it's one of those things that maybe kind of makes more sense. Globally, a lot of times the times and the starts for these events, if you have an NFL game or NBA finals, I was in London during the NBA finals last year, and the games are starting at 1 o 'clock in the morning. So you've got to be a pretty diehard fan. I don't know, even if you have diehard fans, that's a big ask for that to be worth a lot because there's only so many people are going to stay up.

17:45Andrew Marchand:To see Wemby? Yeah, I'm setting the alarm for that. The NFL just did a deal with Netflix for five games and it's going to be Wednesday before Thanksgiving, a couple of games on Christmas, a Saturday game. Originally, that package was being talked about as being an international package. So it would be, you know, the game from Australia and maybe a game from Berlin and maybe a game from London. And I find it interesting. I haven't done enough reporting on this yet, but I find it interesting that the streamers seem to say, you know, we're okay with just the U.S. market for the NFL. And you look at the YouTube numbers, It came from Brazil last season when they had that first game in Brazil.

18:35Andrew Marchand:It was Patrick Mahomes. And I think it was only a million viewers internationally that tuned into that. And so the idea of the NFL being a bit – it is growing internationally, but it's nowhere near. The World Cup is a gigantic local – in every international market, it's going to be as big as it is here, if not bigger. Yeah, the dynamic's different.

19:27where ESPN and TNT went in terms of sports and how much they could charge cable operators. This dynamic is different because the people who are coming into the market are the biggest companies in the world. They're valued in the trillions, way more than any of the networks that they're competing who are the traditional players. And so that just changes things. They're not looking for, hey, let us just get on the board an international game. They want the best of the best if they can. And you see what Netflix did. They don't have opening night, but they have the second game of the season. They have two Christmas Day games.

20:11They have a new Thanksgiving Eve game. They got a late season playoff game. And you see the matchups that the NFL gave them. And from the other partners, I'm kind of like, wait, what? I get it's Netflix and you guys want Netflix involved, but we pay all this money. They come in and I'm sure they're paying a premium perhaps because there are less games, but they're coming in and they're just getting five really good games. I don't know. I wouldn't be thrilled if I'm the networks who are spending much more money. They're getting good games as well, but they've got to also take in the tonnage. It's just a different dynamic.

20:47I could see those international games, they've done well enough, but they still don't resonate. They don't feel as big. And I don't know. Personally, I don't love them. You know, those 930 starts. I get it. You know, more NFL, you could argue. But I don't know. At some point, I think scarcity is one of the NFL's huge advantages. You know, they're the most dominant TV force in sports and entertainment. But I do think scarcity has helped them a lot. And when you make it so you don't really feel like you have to watch every game, it starts to wean over the years about how important it is and if it's too much and so i think i'd be a little careful with that now they'll have good ratings still and maybe that doesn't happen uh but i i would be a little careful with that if i was the nfl

21:34Andrew Marchand:yeah you just identified a dynamic that i really find fascinating which you know back in like 2006 to 10, actually probably six to 15, you know, ESPN was in a hundred million homes. And, and I thought because, you know, because, because of my cable background, it's going to reach parody with broadcast at some point. And the NFL viewed ESPN is as, you know, the, it got what Steve Bornstein called the cable package. And, and, and so it, it got, it had the worst schedule i mean it it it was the uh what i always call the jacksonville jaguar schedules you know they they always had them for you know two or three times it seemed um and and you just see that the you see the relationships change here because oh take take a look at amazon and thursday night football they get uh uh amazon gets thursday night football they're still a relatively new partner and the the streaming package is so much better than what the key the quote-unquote cable package was the the matchups are better uh now you can move the games around you know if if you have a bad game uh late late in the season and it goes back to what you and i talk about a lot which is you know amazon can decide tomorrow we're you know that that was nice but we're out you know it it doesn't really work for us and it's not going to have any effect on amazon you talk to these these broadcast networks they really believe that if they lose the nfl their business is done you know so it's a the the uh the relationship that the nfl has with streamers is so much different than it has with broadcast and certainly was with uh you know uh what was i mean there's no real uh pure play cable today but you know a cable network or anything like that.

23:28Yeah, I would say that the NFL has to be careful as they go forward, you know, forgetting all the government noise. I just think that the power the NFL has over the networks is important for them long term. And I'd also argue that broadcast TV has helped the NFL. It is true that the NFL is very accessible on broadcast, quote, free TV, end quote, because – and I think that has helped it because you just – if you want to watch your local team, the entry is zero. I mean you just have to have a TV and you can see every game because the games on Amazon or games on ESPN, they have to be on local TV as well.

24:14um so but i think it helps the nfl to be on broadcast like i did the numbers are still there you know maybe eventually amazon prime or netflix or someone can deliver bigger numbers we have not seen that yet it takes time to adapt takes time for people to get used to uh but you're still seeing bigger numbers on the networks um and that's something that i think if i'm the nfl I like that power structure because you go 5, 10, 15 years out and you kind of essentially ruin the broadcast networks because you charged them too much or they had to relinquish the NFL because the streamers were willing to pay more.

24:58I just think you're leaving yourself in a little bit of a precarious situation that YouTube, Amazon, and whoever else, Netflix, that they're always just going to pay because they don't necessarily need it. And so they could one day just decide we don't want it. And then where are you? You know, they could figure it out. Very popular game. But that's something I would be in the back of my mind if I was the NFL. Yeah.

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26:55Andrew Marchand:disaster or it has a potential to be like really fun. And, uh, and this is one of my bugaboos as, as somebody watching that, that watches a lot of sports, you know, I, I don't need the play by play person to describe a one yard run up the middle. Like if he misses sort of saying that I'm watching it as, as it's going on, I don't need a full fledged podcast in the booth, but like if they're engaged in conversations and making it interesting and not not necessarily just saying uh describing what i can see with my own eyes and that seems to be what brad digger the executive producer over at uh of fox sports is trying to get with this trying to get p like you know those traditional rivals uh well-known brand names and in those three players to to just kind of mix it up amongst themselves.

27:47Andrew Marchand:And I'm hopeful that this works because I hope that this is kind of a start of a trend moving forward. Yeah, look, there's 162 regular season games. So if you take one out to do something different, I think it's totally fine. Would you say that Fox is eventizing this game? Is that what you would say? Eventizing, yes. Yeah, I think they'd be excited to hear you say that they've learned the word eventizing. I think they feel like they've eventized for a long time, which is the popular word, of course, for Netflix. Let me just get one little side. I don't think Netflix is just saying they want to eventize, not that they're making things into events that weren't previously events.