The Caitlin Clark Effect

26:05So anyway, the league had to add. And they weren't planning on it, and then they were planning on it, and the idea was what's coming. And my source told me, certainly, the future growth, the future financial opportunities. I hope that Juju Watkins, first of all, can get healthy. she is a magical player and she could be that next kind of caitlin clark player right that just the oohs and the ahs where you you're again it's the magic it's the entertainment value i hope there's a hundred of those players coming in the next 10 years but right now we don't know that we know that there's one and so um yeah i mean the w someone told me recently a wmb owner wmb owner that Caitlin Clark is absolutely the greatest thing that ever happened to their franchise.

26:53And it's not the Indiana Fever. And so, again, I think reality, you know, John, interesting facts are facts. Data is data. And I know that people wish, again, and I've talked to a lot of WNBA reporters and I get it. I've mentored quite a few of them over the years. I'm all for them. All of this, there's no one who has wanted the WNBA to succeed in the 90s and in the early part of the century more than me. They didn't to the level that people would have wanted. They didn't become part of the national consciousness. Now they have. Why is that? I'll let everyone think for a moment. Why has that happened over the last year and a half?

27:37I mean, it's the kid wearing number 22. That's a fact. And so the future of the WNBA, it will exist. But if Caitlin Clark doesn't exist, obviously she does. But if she doesn't, well, there go, I think we're safe to say, there goes more than half of your television audience. Now, will some come back? Of course. And here's the other key part, is that the rising tide lifts all boats. There are fans who have come, who have stayed. We saw that in the numbers, the TV ratings for the playoffs once the Indiana Feeble were out. We certainly seen in the all-star voting that people who got a minuscule amount of votes two years ago are now getting hundreds of thousands of votes because the Caitlin Clark fans or whoever people brought to the game because of Caitlin Clark are voting for her, of course, but also voting for other people.

28:30So there is already, it is risen a little bit, the rising tide issue has definitely happened. But if you want to be off the charts, there's one person that brings that. And it's okay to say that because, as I said, facts are facts. And unless you tell me I'm wrong, you know, we've never seen this before, but maybe I've missed something. I'm not trying to be cynical at all here. It is this kid and this team, and I think my favorite fact in the book, and something I still kind of can't believe. I checked it about five times. I'm an inveterate fact checker anyway. But the Indiana Fever and Kaitlyn Clark last year, their average home attendance in Kaitlyn Clark's rookie season, John, was higher than the average home attendance of five NBA teams.

29:27Did you ever think that would be a sentence we could utter even five years ago?

29:33Christine Brennan:You mentioned in the book as well, the Caitlin Clark in the final four outrating the men's final four back when she was at Iowa, something that I never thought would happen. And I'm not sure if we will ever see again, to be honest, that much of an outlier. Christine, let me take another quick break and I want to come back and I do want to talk about the book writing process.

30:05Christine Brennan:so i'm trying to figure out how to how to ask this question i mean you you have referenced like you've you've covered the you know wmba from its inception and uh and you've been i don't want to use the word an advocate because you're a reporter but you've been an advocate for for women's sports and the complaint that came up consistently as you were reporting this book was that you were no longer an advocate for women's sports, you are being an advocate for one particular person in Caitlin Clark. And that's a criticism that I totally understand coming from the Players Association. However, there were a lot of bona fide journalists, people who I respect that also leveled that complaint at you, which surprised me.

30:53Christine Brennan:And I know it surprised you. How did you deal, So I want you to address that, but how did you deal with that? Yeah. Well, I know what journalism is and I am very confident and proud of what my career and what I do. And everything I did was in keeping with that. So, you know, if you've got that kind of core belief, which I do, that then people say whatever and I respect them and I care. And these are, you know, some of them are people I've known for a long time. But that's all right. I mean, that's their that's their position. That's their thought. They have absolutely every right to say it. Over the years, I've said all kinds of things, you know, whether about athletes or columns about people and not not a fellow journalist.

31:39But but, you know, it's fine. It's the United States and you can do that. So that really, you know, maybe a surprise a little bit, but certainly nothing that altered my step or my purpose or my focus. You know, it was I was interested and fascinated, frankly, John, by people being upset that I was writing a book about Caitlin Clark. And let's be clear. I know you know this, but it is an unauthorized biography, an unauthorized biography. That means it sounds ominous. It's not. If you're reading a Winston Churchill book or an Abraham Lincoln book right now, it's unauthorized because they're dead and they did not authorize the writer to do it.

32:25But the, you know, obviously Caitlin Clark is very much alive and she knew I was writing a book and she answered every question I asked and going on in an incredibly admirable way, you know, with long answers and never shying away and looks you in the eye and 22 going on 40 or 50, you know, as I said. And but it's unauthorized. So we're not in cahoots. I'm not working with her. And there's a very you want it to be unauthorized, right? I mean, this is no holds barred. This is a story that has everything. And, you know, Caitlin will write her own book and it will be fabulous. And, you know, I'm sure it will be one of the biggest sellers in the history of bestsellers.

33:10But that's that's not this book. This book is is obviously and hopefully does very well. But whatever, it's a journalistic look. And the same standards that I apply to my USA Today columns, to my Washington Post work, Miami Herald work a million years ago, CNN, ABC News, that's the exact same standards for this book. What really surprised me, and I guess it goes back to the lack of understanding of national scrutiny for the league, is that people were shocked that anyone was writing a book about Caitlin Clark at all. I'm stunned there aren't 10 books about Caitlin Clark right now. I mean, and I mean, there's some like, you know, kids books and whatever you see them on there.

33:47But, but, you know, in terms of being around the season, the fever season and really going in depth, I really expected everybody to jump in the pool. Right. And that's they didn't, you know, whatever the choices were made for people, especially those in Indiana covering that, you know, covering the fever or those in Iowa who covered the beat. And that's fine, of course. But when I was covering golf, I mentioned earlier Tiger Woods, and I think there was probably every time you turned around, there was another golf writer writing a Tiger Woods book. And so what was it about the WNBA writers or those who follow it or whatever, who would get so angry about someone writing a journalistic, unauthorized book about one of the most famous people in sports, but actually also one of the most famous people in our country?

34:40When, I don't know how many Tiger Woods, I should have looked before I came on with you, how many Tiger Woods books are there?

34:45Christine Brennan:Well, I do think some of their anger was, you know, there were day-to-day journalists that were there at the press conferences. And then you're coming out. You had this bizarre role where you were still a day-to-day journalist writing for USA Today, but you're also sort of writing for a book. And it was like, when did the USA Today journalists separate from the book author at these press conferences? Because you generally don't see book authors at press conferences asking questions. Oh, it's crystal clear. I mean, John, you know me pretty well. Everyone knew exactly what I was doing. But I'll make it crystal clear for anyone who didn't.

35:22And, you know, I think some people were quoted maybe without all the information. And of course, for me, I would never be quoted about a fellow journalist and never allow myself to be quoted until I had all the information. So, you know, that's their choice and that's fine. but let's let's be crystal clear I was sitting actually right where I'm sitting now when Scribner's Rick Horgan an editor and I had three previous books with Scribner he and I were chatting on a zoom call on July 10th of 2024 and as we chatted as the call went on Rick became very interested in the Caitlin Clark book and I wasn't even sure I wanted to do one I was gearing up for the Paris Olympics.

36:10I'm so fortunate, lucky to cover the Olympics and gearing up for that. Anyway, the next day, Rick Hall, no book proposal, sight unseen, you know, and offered me a contract to write a Caitlin Clark book. And I said, yes. And then I went off to Paris for a month. But before I did that, I called Erin Kane, Caitlin Clark's agent, within a day or two of that of that offer that I received. And I filled her in. I got in touch with the various leaders of the Indiana Fever and their public relations people. And I said that I've got this book offer. I wasn't planning on it. I now have it. I wanted to do it.

36:50I thought it would be an incredible journalistic opportunity to tell a story that I felt I was pretty well positioned to do as someone who's covered sports for a long time and focused on Title IX and the importance of it in women's sports, especially my speeches and columns too, but I do a lot of

37:08Christine Brennan:speaking about this topic. Anyway, so Caitlin's agent knew, all of the Indiana Fever people knew, I go to the Paris Olympics. I met with Caitlin's agent at the Olympics. We talked for a little bit during halftime of the Australia-US women's semifinal game in August, and we continued to talk. Then when I showed up on August 16th after the Olympics, I got back and I was home for a couple of days here in D.C. and then went to Indy. August 16th, I showed up and it was crystal clear. Everyone knew. Coach Christy Sides welcomed me. He said, all right, here you go on the book. General Manager Lynn Dunn, who I've known since I covered her as a little cub reporter at the Miami Herald when she was at the University of Miami as a head coach.

37:55Absolutely, Lynn Dunn. all right, we had lunch. Here we go for the book. Everywhere, the entire leadership of the fever, anyone, the WNBA, I had already talked to the WNBA leadership about this. People within the WNBA wanted to know what I was doing. Of course, you know me, I would tell anyone anything, no secrets. So everyone knew I was there for the book, not for USA Today. And if they wondered, they would see no USA Today columns. And so I think I was as transparent as anyone could be. The only story that I wrote during that time was a quick news story on Caitlin Clark's reaction to Angel Reese's injury.

38:35And Angel then was out for the rest of the season. I wrote that because my USA Today editors wanted. I paid for everything. My travel, my hotels, everything. so um but i i again i think some of the journalists who were writing this or talking about this or making it a big deal um they have every again every right john to do whatever they wanted to do i defend that right forever but they did not know what i just told you and all they had to do i think every most of the people that were mad at me or angry or whatever they could have called me or texted and asked. No, instead, some people just wanted to say things that were not true.

39:16And that's, you know, that's a right. But I think it's pretty crystal clear, my record on how I handle myself and the honesty that I always try to bring to everything. The number of people who knew exactly what I was doing, of course, included Caitlin Clark, included her family, included her teammates. Everyone knew that. And all the journalists in Indiana knew it. and again all you have to do is look at USA Today's website I have no columns there I did have a column on game one and game two of the playoffs and that was because my editor Roxanna Scott asked me if I would do that and I said of course I would

39:55Christine Brennan:Christine you are a trailblazer I can say this you're a trailblazer as a women's sports journalist I first started reading you were covering an NFL team back in the 80s had to be probably, certainly the only woman in the locker room. And I mention this because you have thick skin. Work through what you work through. You have to have thick skin. How much did some of these complaints that you saw affect you? Or has your skin developed so much? Because you do keep saying, look, they're journalists. They can write what they want. I would be irritated. Did you get irritated? Well, you're right about having to deal with a lot.

40:43I joke, John, that if all this stuff bothered me, I would have been hiding under a bed in 19...

40:48Christine Brennan:I would have been hiding under a bed, Christine. I would have been hiding under a bed in 1982 and never come out. That's what I'm saying. I mean, welcome to my world, right? We didn't have social media then, but the hate mail, oh, you know, at the Miami Herald, Washington Post. But while I was opening up all my misogynistic hate mail at the Washington Post, the person sitting next to me, who was the person I met first day freshman year at Northwestern, was opening up all his racist email or mail, excuse me, not email, but mail. And of course, that's Michael Wilbon, one of my best friends forever.

41:22And so, you know, I mean, he got it, I got it. And they were letters. Now, of course, they attach themselves to you or they, you know, go on a website or do whatever they're doing. And no, I'm always going to say that they have every right to say it, right? Of course. I mean, and that's true. I think you know me well. That's 100 % true. They can do whatever they want. And I'm, you know, I put myself out there, right? I mean, I'm on TV and I love it. And I'm writing columns that can be provocative or controversial. You know, if you're not ready for some of this, then, you know, then you better not be doing all that I'm doing.

41:56So, you know, I get that and that's fine. Um, I don't, it's a shame to see good people make mistakes. Um, and there were people that were just getting things absolutely wrong and running with it. Why? I don't know. Um, for hits or clicks or something. Um, you know, the, uh, and I worked with those people to try to help them understand that they had something wrong, right? And they either didn't want to change it or whatever. So that was interesting. But I wouldn't say it was disappointing. People want clicks and hits. And the journalism world has changed a bit. And that is unfortunate. But I was being looked at and my role was being examined.

42:51And there's some pride in that. I mean, you know, that people care. I'm glad that's good. But unfortunately, like, for example, the Washington Post, a story quoting someone who I don't know, a Connecticut Sun sideline reporter about, I haven't looked at the story in months, so I'm not going to quote it accurately, you know, completely accurately, perfectly, but paraphrasing this Connecticut Sun reporter in the Washington Post, where I worked for 12 years, very proudly, saying all Christine Brennan is doing is asking questions about Caitlin Clark, or it's not good that she's only asking questions about Caitlin Clark.

43:32That was the gist of the quote. So I apologize. I don't have a quite, you know, obviously I haven't read it in months and moved long since past all this, of course. Well, that, as I mentioned to that reporter at the Washington Post that that woman, I don't know, is with the Connecticut Sun as a silent reporter, a TV reporter. So I looked and of the 20 games or so that I covered, obviously I knew this, but Connecticut, there were the two playoff games and then there was one other game. So maximum, she was around me three times, three out of 20 games. and I said to the reporter I said how does she know what I'm asking because of course I've talked to players about themselves of course I did uh Erica Wheeler as you know there's a lot one of my favorite stories in the book is a through line of Erica Wheeler um in her 30s um a starting point guard for the Indiana Fever a black woman went to Rutgers and here comes the white rookie from Iowa and as erica wheeler's leaping for joy that they have drafted fever announced they've drafted caitlin clark you know big shocker obviously no surprise at all um erica wheeler's leaping for joy at the watch party at gainbridge and at that exact moment that she's leaping for joy she has lost her starting job and she befriends and cares about caitlin you know throughout the entirety of of the season and grabs her away from trouble if she's close to a technical fall.

45:03And it's just a lovely, lovely story. And I talked to Erica a few times during the season. And yes, it was about her and about Caitlin, but about being a mentor and a role model. And then I talked to her after the season through email or text messages, I think both actually, about some of the things about her and whatever. Temmie Fag Bentley, I talked to her about her role and she was injured and some of the other things. Of course, a lot of questions related to Caitlin Clark because I was writing a book on Caitlin Clark just the same way that I've watched golf writers for years ask everyone, Phil Mickelson, Roy McIlroy, about Tiger Woods.

45:42How did this become a bad thing? Why on earth, and I'm anxious for the answers. People see this online, maybe you can tell me. Why did this bother people so much? And as I said, I'm shocked that there aren't, you know, nine other books being written about the fever season or whatever.

46:04Christine Brennan:Well, you know, I had I had a Kathy Engelbert on this pod back in the fall. And one of the things that she said that she really wanted to do is too many fans of the WNBA are fans of the WNBA. and she says as the league starts to progress, she wants there to be fans of the New York Liberty or the Washington Mystics or the Indiana Fever and less so fans of the WNBA because it's like the Rob Lowe going to an NFL game wearing an NFL Shield hat. It's like, no, you have to pick a side. And so why did people get upset by it? because you were reporting on not even a team, but one of the players and not the WNBA as a whole.

46:53Christine Brennan:And so I think that it was something, it was just different, right? First of all, Scribner bought a book on Caitlin Clark. So had I written, and I know you're not advocating this, but let's listen to how kind of ridiculous this sounds, right? Had I written a book about the WNBA, I would have been in breach of contract and I would have failed to do what I was contracted to do. Now, having said that, you've read the book. So in this chapter called The League of Their Own, I talk about some of the fun moments, Lynn Dunn dribbling through the streets of Seattle to sell season tickets. I've got Val Ackerman, who I've known for forever, with incredible quotes about the formation of the WNBA.

47:46And she was, of course, the first president, not commissioner, but president. And I move forward. And here's the thing that, again, I'm very proud of my reporting. And I'm not, again, if people want to be critical, that's fine. But, you know, the idea that the WNBA was a month ahead of Colin Kaepernick on its social activism. You had the Minnesota Lynx a full month ahead of when Colin Kaepernick started to kneel. You had the Lynx, including, of course, Maya Moore and Simone Augustus, Lindsay Whalen, a few others, Rebecca Brunson. you had them reading a statement about the murder of two black men and also the murder of five Dallas police officers.

48:31And of course, those players are the favorite players of young Caitlin Clark in Iowa. And the Minnesota Lynx and then the WNBA, other teams followed suit with protests and t-shirts and what have you before their games. A month later comes Colin Kaepernick. And I dare say, John, that there are very few people who are watching us or listening to us or just people out in the country who would realize the WNBA was a full month ahead of Colin Kaepernick. Some do. There were some great stories on that topic. Kevin Blackstone is in the book, dear friend, Northwestern classmate. He talks about these issues.

49:06But in general, it was undercovered compared to Kaepernick, right, which was everywhere. So what I'm saying is that that's an incredible shame that the WNBA players, the Minnesota Lynx and others, did not get credit where credit was due. And it would be shocking to people to find out that those players in the WNBA and the league itself and other players and teams were a month ahead of Kaepernick. That will shock people. And it shouldn't because, but no one was, you know, the mainstream sports media wasn't paying attention to the WNBA's activism and they were paying attention to the NFL quarterback, Colin Kaepernick, his activism.

49:43So that's in the book. So I would dispute and say to anyone who wants to complain and everyone knows where to find me, that that chapter alone gives the WNBA not only its due, but tells a lot of people who will read the book because of Caitlin Clark, tells a lot of people about the history of the WNBA and how hard it has been and how much these great players deserved attention well before they got it. My goal was to journalistically tell that story and to give the full breadth of what this league is. Again, I put in the stats right there, 74 % Black League, and then understanding the situation with Caitlin Clark coming into it.

50:34So for those who might be angry or were angry that I was focusing only on Caitlin Clark, I have no idea how they're going to react to that chapter, which is all about the WNBA. And if, in fact, this book sells a few copies, there will be people who have never paid attention to the WNBA who will learn about it from the book. Maybe that would be helpful. Maybe that's something that will make some people happy. So I have never, ever seen an argument about any sport where the league is trying to dissuade or people who cover it or follow it. And some of these young reporters, you know, I even write this in the book, John, as you know, that it's understandable when you're covering something that is undercover to then fight for it.

51:27We all get close on a beat. when I was covering the Washington football team, of course there were players I knew well. If they fumbled three times, that would be a huge story and a headline. And there was no, I'm a journalist first, but we all understand. So whatever it might be, being protective of the league, understandable, I get it, I get that. And the WNBA, for years was so ignored that I could see a lot of those people wanting to fight for it and then say, oh, this terrible Christine Brennan, she's just writing about Caitlin Clark. Okay. Again, that's fine. How many times can I say that?

52:02That doesn't bother me at all. But then I will ask them this. In my 40-some years of covering sports, anyone I've dealt with in big leagues or the Olympics has been thrilled to have coverage of anyone. So the swimming world wants you to write about Katie Ledecky and talk about Katie Ledecky. and no one's mad that someone's talking or writing about Katie Ledecky and not someone else because all of a sudden there are eyeballs on Katie Ledecky. Well, then pretty soon you may have other people getting attention. You will have other people getting attention and they'll be watching and they'll see some great young swimmer and there you go.

52:44So if that's the strategy or if that's the complaint, well, it's a new one for me because throughout my career, the notion of any coverage being good coverage that, you know, I know you've heard that. And why is it that they want, like that people maybe, I guess, are they saying they didn't want a Caitlin Clark book? Why? Why? I mean, a question I thought of when I saw some of this, again, I had very little time for this. I had to write a book in four or five months. So I didn't have time to devote to any of this except put my head down and keep going. But did they think I was working with Caitlin Clark?

53:26And I'll just leave that question out there. I just didn't say clearly I was, of course, was not.

53:31Christine Brennan:Christine, I've known you forever. I've wanted to get you on the pod for a while. Had an excuse now with the book that you wrote. I can't thank you enough for stopping by. Great success. Good luck with the book. I'm sure it's going to do well. But thank you for coming by. John, my pleasure. Thanks so much for having me.

53:53Christine Brennan:For me, it was great to hear Christine go deep on the WNBA, what it should have done differently as Caitlin Clark came into the league and what it should do differently as Caitlin Clark goes into her second, third, fourth years in the league. But what I was most taken by is just talking about her reporting process and not necessarily her reporting process, but the amount of controversy that it caused. The Women's Players Association wanted to ban Christine from games, saying that when she was coming, all she was doing was asking questions about Caitlin Clark. There were certain people in the media that really took exception to what they thought was Christine championing Caitlin Clark.

54:46Christine Brennan:Christine, her answer, going back to the early 80s when she was at the Miami Herald, she was at the Washington Post, and she was a pioneering female sports reporter at a time when the newsrooms didn't have sports reporters, when the press rooms at stadiums didn't have sports reporters. she's dealt with a lot she's developed a thick skin so she can certainly deal with a lot of the criticisms so I want to thank Christine for taking the time to join the pod today I thoroughly enjoyed her Caitlin Clark book on her game and I'm sure you will too more importantly though I want to thank you for listening to The Varsity an Odyssey podcast in partnership with Puck I also want to thank the executive editors at Puck Gobby Grossman, Ben Landy, John Kelly, and the great team at Odyssey, Patrick Antonetti and Bob Tabador.

55:42Christine Brennan:If you like this podcast, make sure to sign up for my newsletter, also called The Varsity. Head over to puck.news and use the code word TheVarsity, all one word, for a 20 % discount. And I will see you on Wednesday.