Who Won NFL Draft Weekend?

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1:32Andrew Marchand:Congratulations! You made the Varsity podcast. My name is John Aranda and I'm Puck's sports correspondent and the host of this pod. I'm coming to you today from Puck's headquarters in what we call South Tribeca in New York City. I was in town to attend the Cable Hall of Fame ceremony. In particular, I wanted to celebrate two of the inductees. One is Amy McLean, who I worked with a quarter century ago at a publication called Cable Facts Daily. And as far as I know, Amy is the only journalist to be honored like this. I also sat at Lou Borelli's table. And Lou is somebody I've known for about 30 years, back when he worked for a company called AOL.

2:11Andrew Marchand:Lou was also inducted, which was truly great to see. Well, today, The Athletic's great media reporter, Andrew Marchand, returns to the pod, and we're going to geek out on the NFL draft, NFL network, the NFL's political problems. But before I get to Marchand, today is Sunday, April 26, and here's what I'm watching. I'm stuck on Capitol Hill, where sports has become one of the most popular topics. I can't ever recall a time when sports was discussed more inside the Beltway than it is today. Okay, the past week gives a really good illustration. First, four big time NFL executives had a meeting at the Federal Communications Commission, the FCC.

2:51Andrew Marchand:The NFL's main point was to show just how much a league's media strategy is rooted in broadcast television. And not only that, but the games that are headed to streaming companies generally are coming from elsewhere in the pay TV world, not from broadcast TV. In fact, the NFL is close to selling a package of five games that had been on ESPN and ESPN Plus. Now, no deal has been announced yet, but it looks likely that those games are headed to YouTube, which has a lot more distribution than a cable channel. Then a few days later, there was a Senate Commerce Subcommittee hearing carried by Ted Cruz that looked into the future of boxing.

3:26Andrew Marchand:TKO's Nick Khan and former boxer Oscar De La Hoya were on the panel. And as a quick aside, it was wild to hear Khan lay into the current state of boxing. He brought up the WBC stripping Terrence Crawford of the super middleweight title because Crawford didn't pay$300 ,000 in sanctioning fees. It would be like if Major League Baseball went to the Dodgers after they beat the Blue Jays and said, we're going to take this title away from you because you didn't pay us money, Khan said. Great theater. I can see why DC is so interested. Okay, now let's get to Andrew Marchand. Well, we are taping this interview on a Friday, and we saw the NFL draft on Thursday night.

4:10Andrew Marchand:Andrew, you have a hot take column that you published in The Athletic on Friday on this about sort of your impressions of the draft. I was out at a Cable Hall of Fame dinner in New York that was honoring Amy McLean, who is the editor of Cable Facts Daily, Lou Borelli, who's with the NCTC. Anyway, so I did not get to see it, but I have read some reviews about it. You're going to carry this segment. Andrew, take it over. How was the draft? What did you think of it? Yeah, so I'm a three-screen guy for the draft in terms of reviewing it, which is probably two screens too many. There's four shows going on.

4:56You have the main show with Mike Greenberg on ESPN. Then you have NFL Network with Rich Eisen. You have the ABC presentation, College Game Day. And then you have Pat McAfee doing his thing. So I don't watch the game day one, nothing against those guys.

5:17The McAfee aspect of it is always interesting. and, you know, because he has the Mel Kuyper impersonator. And then you have ABC, which, you know, does more of the insights into the, you know, backstories of people. So, but I go with the three screens. All right.

5:39Andrew Marchand:So let's start with that. When I do watch the draft, you know, I can't get into the numbers as much as they do. I love the ABC presentation. I just, you know, tell me the backstories and create some drama. It's like the old Dick Ebersole Olympics approach almost of, you know, here are the athletes and here's how they got to where they are. What were your impressions of ABC? So, well, ABC, I don't watch as much. I mean, I did turn it on a little bit. So, look, I like to know what the picks means for the teams. you know those guys with Kirk Herbstreit Desmond Howard and Nick Saban they're gonna give you great they give you really you can get some real good information in terms of you know Saban talking about the Ohio State safety who turned into a linebacker I think the commanders chose him he gave you some really like how they should use him I thought that was really good but yeah I like the traditional kind of Greenberg, Chris Berman seat.

6:47I like that one the most because I want to get the nuts and bolts of it. And so that's where my main focus is on. I thought Booger McFarlane did well. The biggest point of the first round was Ty Simpson getting picked by the Rams at 13. and when you look at it,

7:15you want something different or unexpected to happen and when Simpson was picked, McFarlane said he didn't understand the pick. First off, Simpson hasn't made that many starts, which historically has not led to great performances when you haven't started that many games in college and then also the Rams with Matthew Stafford, win now mode, why are you picking a quarterback? That's what you want from the draft. You don't have to crush people, but not all these picks are great. Most half of them or so are not even going to work out. And so you want to hear that from your analyst. All right.

7:50Andrew Marchand:On our old pod, we had who's up, who's down. On your current pod, you do the – actually, I think you've changed it from who's up, who's down to what's up and what's down. From Thursday night, NFL draft, three screens, who's up? yeah my what's up one my what's up would be ty schmidt who's one of pat mcafee's sidekicks he does a mel kuiper impersonation throughout the whole draft which you know if you're looking for real nuts and bolts coverage is maybe not what you uh want but i i do find it very funny because the impersonation is very well done and he does it in a way where there actually is a little bit information but there it's a caricature uh of of kiper so i do find it funny uh and then they also have bill cower on set um with on the mcafee show so you have this mel kiper impersonator uh talking and then you have someone respected super bowl winning coach hall of famer in bill cower uh and he's responding.

8:52And so that is a funny dynamic that's presented. So I'll give him a what's up. I mentioned Booger. I mean, to me, the best draft expert now on TV is Daniel Jeremiah. He cuts with a butternut. You're not going to get that Bill Tobin moment like you got years ago when Kuyper had his famous moment with the former late GM of the Colts where they went at it and he asked, you know, who the hell is Mel Kuyper? And you're not going to get that with Jeremiah, but you do get a lot of insight, and he does it in a way where you kind of know what he's thinking. I had him on my podcast the other day, and he was a tremendous backstory with Chris Mortensen.

9:41His dad is a famous pastor, Jeremiah, and how he met Mortensen. And just the study that he does and his presentation is very clean.

9:51Andrew Marchand:You know what's next? Who's down? Who didn't do a good job on Thursday? Yeah, let me think about that. I don't think there was somebody who just stood out fully. You know, the Goodell-Greenberg interview is always a potential. What's down? But I actually thought it was better than most years. You know, it seems a little rehearsed. I don't think Roger Goodell is being surprised by any of Greenberg's questions. I always go to my, you know, Frost Nixon. It wasn't exactly Frost Nixon, but it actually did cover some ground. He asked about the referee situation and, you know, how Goodell said that there was a chance of replacement refs.

10:34And then, you know, he got into the TV deals. and I know we're going to talk about it, the government pressure. Goodell had the stat the NFL likes to say, which is accurate. It's a true stat. 87-plus percent of their games are on broadcast TV. And he asked about Vrabel in that situation, and Goodell said they're not getting involved. It's a Patriot matter. So I thought it was better than most years, but that's always sort of a weird dynamic because of the relationship and how important the NFL is to the network.

11:14Andrew Marchand:You know, one of the storylines about the draft that I was looking forward to this year is that, of course, ESPN now runs NFL Network. And NFL Network has its own draft and ESPN has its own two versions of the draft as well, ABC, ESPN. Did you notice any difference with the NFL Network coverage of the draft? Yeah, I mean, the biggest thing I would say was they shared the interviews. Laura Rutledge did interviews for both ESPN and NFL Network. You know, in the past, you'd have a Laura Rutledge from ESPN doing the same interview with the same draftee. and then someone from NFL Network. They had, I think Kaylee Hartung did in recent years.

12:06Deion Sanders did in the past. And so that's where you see the shared resources. I do think when you look long-term, I think ESPN's kind of in figuring out things mode for the next year. And so I would say that, I don't know, if you're one company, Do you need two basically similar draft shows or you need to combine them in some ways? I mean, I do think there are people who favor NFL Network and, you know, over ESPN. I don't know. So I don't know long term if they have that. I thought, you know, I didn't mention this earlier. I thought Ian Rappaport on day one had the best, you know, TV insider info when he reported about the Steelers going for Makai Lemon.

12:54They thought they're going to draft him. the receiver and then the Eagles jumped in front and they're on the phone. The Steelers are on the phone with Lemon. That's a good insight. That's where the insiders, I think, you know, look, some of the criticism they get is warranted, but I do think that they do provide more than just transactions on Twitter. And so that's what, you know, I would say is that, you know, that was something that was really good. You know, Schefter's good on this stuff too. I do find it interesting, the dynamic of Peter Schrager and Jake Laser, who seemingly knew the Rams were going to pick Ty Simpson, but couldn't report it, which I get it.

13:37They got the information, and then they were able to do it closer to the draft. It seems like they're pretty open about their relationship with Sean McVay. It's just sort of interesting that that's so out in the open that he's possibly telling them what's going to happen. and they can't say until right before. It's an interesting transaction game.

13:58Andrew Marchand:Although, you know, Andrew, I got an email from a varsity reader, a reader of my private email, that complained about that draft pick, and they said the total surprise of the draft pick was almost killed because ESPN trained its cameras before the pick was announced on the pick himself. So I was like, oh, well, we know where this pick is going, like a full 10 seconds before goodell came out and made his back yeah i do think well i guess there was some speculation i i do think you know internally um when you know something like that you know you've probably been there on stories or you know you know i think you're often there where you tell an editor so maybe they were told uh by someone that you know what i think they're gonna go ty simpson that's always a complaint um you know i i personally didn't find that to be I watched different reactions to that.

14:52I felt like there was a surprise. And that was the type of choice where you get the magic of the draft if you're TV. Because it's a TV show. I mean, we're not... The idea that anybody knows what they're actually talking about, who's going to be good and who's not, is ridiculous. I mean, Jeremiah on the podcast last week, he was very honest about that. They don't really know. I mean, they make mistakes. They got some picks that they like. that they don't like um that they you know they wish they could have a do-over he told me about how when he was with the ravens they ran a you know simulation to to figure out why they missed on tom brady you know what did they get wrong and you know how could they not you know fix that for the future um and so it's a tv show and so what do you want a tv show now you don't want fake hot takes but you want something unusual last year we got chador sanders dropping that was a tremendous his story and of course mel kiper stood out because kiper was so um in love with uh sanders's game and you know very over the top with it but that made for great tv uh because he was like this is a first round pick and what do you go sixth round um and so when you uh that's what you want so the ty simpson thing you know kind of a boring draft overall um you know in terms of we knew what the number one pick was there weren't a lot of trades but the simpson move because of the rams because Stafford's the reigning MVP.

16:16And so the reactions to that, what it means for McVay. I mean, there's a TV story there too that's underlying all of this. Sean McVay is someone who's coveted by TV, Prime Video especially likes him. How long will he coach? My first impression was they picked Ty Simpson. Well, you know what? Sean McVay just got a quarterback after Matthew Stafford. He's going to be there for a while. But then you saw the post-press conferences and he didn't seem that excited about it. So then I'm like, maybe not. So that's interesting. And then there's a relationship with the GM and the family. So that's something to watch.

16:51It's always interesting. We saw it with Green Bay over the years with their choices where they'd get their quarterback a couple of years early. And you had Favre and Rodgers still playing well. So now you have that scenario. Stafford's only going to play a year or two more at most. And then he's likely going to TV. So, you know, the TV component of it's always kind of at play, and I'm always kind of watching that.

17:17Andrew Marchand:All right, my final draft question, but then we'll move on. The ABC telecast is generally for the casual fan. The ESPN telecast generally is for a hardcore sports fan, and the NFL network is for a hardcore NFL fan. Did that conform this year? Yeah, it does. You know, and it does. I mean, you know, and then McAfee is kind of mixed in. I don't really understand the McAfee math, though. Like, I don't, there's no commercials. I don't really understand. I know ESPN does what a great deal it is. And I was like, maybe it is. And I get it. They want to get younger. And he is very popular. I do believe that.

17:55Andrew Marchand:I believe that when they roll up the ratings, they're going to be adding in all those McAfee numbers with or without the commercials. So that's what they're going to be selling. I get it, but do they monetize any of this? Okay. I mean, I don't know. Yeah, great. I mean, I don't know. Again, God bless them. I mean, McAfee was easier. Look, when you're doing a three-screen thing, McAfee was easier because every time they went to commercial, he didn't go to commercial. You know, and like, I don't know if there's, you know, Scott Hanson's pretty famous for never going to the bathroom. I don't know when these guys went to the bathroom.

18:21I guess maybe when they go. They had Traeger offset with the McAfee guy. But so maybe then. But yeah, look, I mean, the old Dan Rather line, you really want to know about something? read a newspaper i mean if you really want to know about the draft read the athletic uh dane boulder does an amazing the beast uh if you're not familiar uh is one of the most popular things we have on the state all year uh it's just like it tells you everything you'd want to know about you know pros and cons for every guy um so it's you know these clips that are especially the big thing we didn't talk about yet john is that they went from 10 minutes to eight minutes on the draft time for each pick, which made it much faster, which I think for fans and as a TV show people enjoy.

19:10I'm not sure if the teams like it to go that quick. That cut down on trades, I'm not sure. There were people who felt like the Steelers after the receiver situation. I tend to doubt that's true, that they just went next on their draft board because you've got to think three or four picks at a time as your pick's coming up. But the eight-minute thing, I like the intrigue, but it could drag on sometimes, especially when you know a pick's obvious and then they pick the guy and then like, why'd you wait nine minutes now? I guess you're fielding some calls. Maybe you're fielding some trade calls, late trade calls.

19:45But, you know, so that was, that probably was an improvement, I'd say.

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20:34The Sports Betting Alliance is focused on bringing clarity to this conversation because whether consumers are in a regulated system or outside it has real consequences. Learn more at sportsbettingalliance.org. Have you ever felt like you were living just a B or B plus life? It's so dangerous to live that, more dangerous than a B minus or a C plus life

20:56Andrew Marchand:because when you're living a B or B plus life, you don't change it. You think it's good enough. Is it? I'm Susie Welch. I host a podcast called Becoming You. People think, okay, an A plus life is not available to me, but there is a way. We are all in the process of becoming ourselves. Listen to Becoming You wherever you get your podcasts. That was great considering that I didn't watch one second of the draft on Thursday night. That was an excellent first segment. You carried me through, man. I appreciate it, Andrew. Thank you. Yeah, no problem. But I do want to go to NFL Network a little bit. It's now owned by ESPN.

21:36Andrew Marchand:There's been so much speculation about how ESPN is going to change the NFL Network. And I know we both talked to ESPN executives who compare it to SEC Network, which ESPN owns, or ACC Network. Like ESPN is used to having a dedicated channel to a conference or a league that it runs. And they point to those and say, if you want to see how it's going to go, it's going to be pretty much like that. No real big changes for the first year on NFL Network. Where are the areas that you think are ripe for change on NFL Network under ESPN's ownership? Well, number one, I think ESPN will invest more in NFL Network than the NFL did.

22:26And the NFL stripped it down. I mean, I think the biggest story with that was they had a really successful, probably maybe the most successful show they've ever made was Good Morning Football when they had Schrager and Kyle Brandt and Nate Burleson on that program. I mean, that show created basically four stars, which, you know, out of, I'm not going to say thin air, but they, and then they moved it from New York to LA because they had the LA studios and they wanted to use those, which makes some sense. But if you know anything about TV, doing a 6 or 7 a.m. show from LA is ridiculous. Even 8 is ridiculous because you got to, you know, it's already early.

23:11To do a morning show, again, it's TV. You're not mining coals. But the bottom line is you have to get up so early. So they were cutting back. I think ESPN will invest. Look, I think the big question, I had Ian Rappaport on my podcast a little while ago. His contract's up in May. ESPN wants him back. I think he'll probably end up going back. We're coming down to the wire there with that. But you have Schefter. You got Rappaport. Do you need both of them? That's a question. you could actually, I think you probably do. You need the insight. Like those guys fill a lot of innings, but do you need, how many reporters do you need?

23:54You know, traditionally NFL network and ESPN, they have, you know, two reporters covering the Cowboys. Well, do you need two people? You know, do you need two separate people? I mean, I don't want to be the bear of bad news. I mean, I think this is pretty obvious. You don't need necessarily, you could just have the person do the hits for NFL Network and ESPN. It's basically the same information generally. And so I think on the back end, you're going to see advertising, the executive ranks. Whenever these things happen, there's redundancies, and that's what these corporations love to get rid of redundancies.

24:35But I guess for what viewers see, I think you'll see more rather than less. I mean, I think ESPN to me has an opportunity to create shows. And that's what I'd be trying to create hits on NFL Network, ESPN2, and then move them up to ESPN. It sounds crazy, but first take was on ESPN2 for a while. And now it's maybe been 10 years or so it's been on ESPN. But before that, it was on ESPN2. So I think I'd try to create that type of farm system for the shows. I mean, obviously, you can do podcasts, you can do YouTube, you can do a lot of things. But I think there's a real chance if I'm ESPN with NFL Network to experiment and try some new things.