Arsenal Cracking? Spurs' Disaster & Trent Snubbed!

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0:30the highest B2B return on ad spend of major ad networks. Spend$250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn ads and get$250 credit for the next one. Just go to linkedin.com slash broadcast. That's linkedin.com slash broadcast. Terms and conditions apply. This podcast is sponsored by Pocket Hose. I gotta tell you, being a homeowner, there's so many things you have to think about all the time. For example, I have to replace my hoses every single year because they're weak they get tangled and there's kinks then i found the pocket hose ballistic this is the upgrade i've been looking for for a long time man it's reinforced with a liquid crystal polymer used in bulletproof vests you know what that means no kinks it's not going to get tangled it also comes with this pocket pivot which gives you total freedom of movement and the spigot has like a 360 degree rotation which is pretty cool there's also this upgraded UV coating they added for free, so your hose basically looks brand new all the time.

1:26Right now, when you get the new Pocket Hose Ballistic, you'll get a free 360-degree rotating pocket pivot and a free thumb drive nozzle. Go to pockethose.com slash podcast. That's pockethose.com slash podcast for your two free gifts with purchase. Pockethose.com slash P-O-D-C-A-S-T. The big surprise was obviously Trent. He should be in that squad. It didn't sound like there was any way back for him. There's a few times now where the Boone, Eddie Howe, is one of the best managers in the Premier League. I'd just say to the Newcastle fans, be careful what you wish for. It's a disaster to play to my home and lose 3-0.

2:04It's an absolute nightmare.

2:08First silverware of the season goes to Manchester City. We said that a few times before. What did you make of it, Wayne? Yeah, I think well deserved. I thought City were the better team throughout the 90 minutes. Second half, they were very, very good. As good as I've seen them for a long time. City's second half and fully deserved a win. Looked a threat. Both sides, Toku, Semenyo were a big threat for them. And I thought Rodri was brilliant as well. and then obviously Nico Riley, young lad from left back scoring two goals. What an evening for him. Yeah, I just saw him being interviewed on the pitch and wow, yeah, what an incredible feeling.

2:49And he's English, Kate, which is what I always like to see. Yes, we know another English guy that scored two in a League Cup final, isn't it? Sure, Wayne put it in our WhatsApp group earlier, didn't he, where he said who was the last Englishman to score two. We thought it was going to be you actually, Wayne, wasn't it? But we think there's been one since. Yeah, no, I said Nathan Dio earning from Swansea, he scored two but no, I know what it's like, obviously he scored two goals in that final and that was an amazing feeling so I know what he'll be feeling, obviously I didn't do it from left back so it's a little bit different but two very good goals I think anticipating the first one, really good at it and then sneaking in, arriving late into the penalty box and I think that's probably the midfielder in him as well where he's managed to to arrive at the right time and then a great second ever.

3:38So no, what a day for him and his family. He's not bad, is he? I mean, we've spoken about him on this show already in terms of what his best position is, how important he is for City, but we mentioned it just now for England too. Yeah, and he's a good player to have for him and he's better than, you know, saying he's an option to play at left back or his option to play midfield because I think he's better than that. he's an option to start and to start games for England he's proven that and I think he's making that left back spot his own I still prefer him in midfield I think he's better played in midfield but just shows the quality he's got and the brain, the football brain he's got as well to be able to play in different positions it's not easy to be able to do that not many players can do that but for him to be able to do that in a Pep Guardiola team where there's lots of rotation and be able to adapt to whatever position he's played in and shows the quality he's got.

4:38I always think that, Kaywin. I see someone perform that well in a Pep Guardiola team. We know what it takes. Well, we don't know what it takes, but we've seen other players struggle to play for Pep Guardiola. It's no mean feat. And to be the shining star today, it was huge. And it just felt lovely for him. No, it's amazing for him. I think Pep's very specific with what he likes in a lot of players, particularly young players, I think. Obviously, we've seen it with certain older players where he'll sort of bed them into a team once he's satisfied with them being able to carry out his instructions in the way he wants them to.

5:14I think with younger players, he's able to mould them into what he wants very early on and get them into playing in a system and a style he wants. And yeah, I think Nico O 'Reilly, man, what a player for the future for them as well. So that for his confidence as well, at the back end of the season, scoring two goals in a League Cup final in a run-up to a World Cup year, I think that's going to be incredible for him. But how poor were Arsenal, Wayne? I mean, I think what happened today was one side set up not to lose and the other side set out to win it. I don't think Arteta took any risks today.

5:51Yeah, well, I think they haven't... They don't take many risks, do they? And that's why they've been successful this season. in terms of the league position and in the Champions League. And they haven't been great, actually, in terms of... I think I've spoke about this. I really like how efficient they are. But when something like today happens in a cup final and you lose the game, you maybe have a regret, maybe regret some decisions or not being a bit more expansive. But, yeah, I think they haven't been great performance-wise over the last six weeks two months but they're winning games and I've given them big praise for that but I think today Cup Final with the run into the league I think they could have went for a bit more knowing that the league probably is is in the bag anyway I think I feel like if they went for but you've got to give City credits City smothered them they didn't let them out of their own half especially second half and Arsenal had no no answers to how City played but with the ball land without the ball.

6:57I think you saw how much they wanted it with how the managers reacted. The way Pep was celebrating those goals, it was like it was his first trophy ever. Yeah, and that's how it should be. The League Cup is... I've always said to win any trophy is a huge honour and it was the first trophy I ever won in my professional career. And you still get memories from them games now. I scored the win against Aston Villa as well in the final and It's memories you have and you keep. So I think when teams disrespect whether it's the Carabao Cup or the FA Cup, I don't think they actually understand that feeling you get when you do win it.

7:39I just wondered what you made of, obviously both teams didn't play their first choice league goalkeeper. They stuck with their cup goalkeeper. Of course, Kepa will get the headlines a little bit more because he did make a bit of a mistake for that first goal. Were you surprised that Raya didn't start, given how important he is to Arsenal throughout the rest of the campaign and has been this season? Yes and no, I think. Because I think there's a big gap between Raya and Kepa in quality. But then you've got to respect the loyalty. It has been an opportunity for some of the fringe players, if you like, to get minutes.

8:15And I've been there on both sides of that. I've come into a League Cup at the final stage and you feel bad on your teammates who've got you there and also I got left out of a FA Cup semi-final against Everton because we've had the Champions League game so the right decision is to play your best team I think because you've got to show that to your fans and show the respect to the Cup but Mikel Arteta as many managers have, has shown loyalty to the players who having played that much on the players we've got them to the final. I think Kepa would have been much happier being on a bench and then winning the game rather than playing 100%.

8:57Look, I think you're in a cup... Not every player's like that. But no, I think you're in a cup final, especially for Arsenal, right? They're in a very pivotal season. I think they haven't won silverware for a very long time. And I think at a point like this, you just think, put your best team out, put your best keeper on and win something once you've won that cup it's going to do so much for you psychologically going in towards the business end of the season and I think it's just such a missed opportunity here I understand what Wayne's saying about loyalty to your players and stuff but like I said I think if if they'd won the cup today like all those well you can look at it from the other way Man City have done the exact same yeah but they've won stuff Wayne yeah no but but even if they would have lost against today and Trafford was a fall for the goal we'd be saying the same thing even though they've won stuff should he have played Donnarumma also Trafford's less experienced as well so you could argue that was a bigger gamble Wayne yeah so there's well given Kepa's experience in finals I wouldn't have played him anyway no but it shows the margins because Kepa is a good goalkeeper and it just shows the margins and the importance of having a top goalkeeper is huge.

10:17When you've got someone behind you you trust and you have belief in it gives you so much more confidence. We used to say if that was Davide Rea in goal I don't think Davide Rea drops that ball and they get the first goal. Then you look at probably a performance where we're saying Arsenal have sat in when Nick did 1-0 win. Maybe so. The importance of having a top goalkeeper is so crucial to any team. Did we see today that Trafford is a top goalkeeper because he made a string of really good saves in the first half? Yeah, I think we've all known the potential and he has got a big future in front of him.

10:56But I still haven't seen enough of him at the top level to judge that. And I think it's going to be difficult now, obviously, with Donnarumma at Man City. And it looks like probably the only way for him to get that experience and go and play is to move club. I think, unless he's very patient and he waits around. Was it the wrong move for him, do you think? At the time, probably not. But then when he sat down at Donnarumma, then... He must have been gutted, mustn't he? Yeah, he must have been looking at it. Because I think the Donnarumma, it looked like it was quite quick how it happened. he played the first two games of the season didn't he I'd imagine all Trafford's negotiations and talks were about how he's going to take over from Ederson and then Donnarumma signs but if someone of Donnarumma's quality becomes available you've got to be ready to go and get him and Man City done them just on English players I don't know how you felt when you seen Phil Foden come on but I felt sad for him But not sad because he's coming on in the cup final.

12:05And then obviously I was at the game, the Madrid game, last week as well where he didn't even get on the pitch. And then to see him just coming on like that at the end. That was, for instance, Max Downman coming on. You're thinking he's 16, coming on in the cup final, good experience, whatever the result. But to see full phone, it was almost like a charity sub to get him on the pitch. I was just like, I felt for it. I don't know what's happened because he's a top player. I've spoke many times about my admiration for him, how he plays. And it just feels strange that he can't get anywhere near the team.

12:44It feels like something's gone on there. But you're quite right. I feel the same about Bukayo Saka. I think Saka's had a really bad season. It's like two assists, six goals. And I just think, yeah, that doesn't bode Will Frington as well Do you know what On that though What I will say The pressure Especially Saka As captain As well He obviously went A lot of the season He's been captain Still that pressure To win trophies And obviously And the way Arsenal have been Not winning trophies That can That can Tally up And make it difficult For you And I think he has Struggled this season Saka I think He's a fantastic player And he's been brilliant But yeah I think just that pressure and he's played a lot of games as well do you mean in his career already?

13:34Yeah I think in his career already he's played a lot of games so yeah I think we all know there's more there in soccer so I think that's different you can play and not play well but I just think with Foden I thought he was actually in good form midway through the season and then all of a sudden we're just not seeing him at all getting any minute it's a strange one He had that little run didn't he where he was really good and then it seemed to dip off a bit. You asked us how we felt. I also felt sad watching it, Wayne, for the same reason, because it feels like we're used to seeing him be the main man for City or one of the main men.

14:07How do you think he'll have felt coming on? And even in the post-match celebrations, how will he have felt? Will he be pleased but disappointed? Yeah. Listen, you're firstly, you're pleased you've won the club. I think that's the first thing. But just from a selfish and a personal point of view, he will have been wanted to have been out there and playing and influenced in the game. So you'll have that disappointment as well. I think if you look at Erwin Haaland, I thought it was brilliant. He's been like this from every time I've seen him play. When he doesn't score, he's so pleased for his teammates when they score.

14:46I think that's quite rare. A forward who obviously is meant to be the lad who gets the goals, I think that's quite rare. But I think for Foden there, I think that will have been a tough one and it'll probably I don't know what they're doing celebrating whatever but it'll probably take a couple of hours to shake that off because that is tough I mean the way Cherky was playing at one point he was doing kick-ups in the middle of the field yeah what did you make of that? I like that sort of stuff I love it I mean I think it's down to the opposition to not let things like that happen because when you're I think showboating's part of the game if somebody can do it but if you're the opposition, you can't be letting it happen.

15:27Wayne? Yeah, I think if you're on the pitch there and someone's doing that, you're expecting yourself or one of your teammates to go and try and win the ball back with a firm tackle. That's putting it lightly. AKA going right through him. I've done it before. I've done it for Man United against Everton. And that was actually against one of my friends, who Tony Iber, who was playing right back. and sometimes you get carried away with the game with the fans if you're getting a bit of stick and you want a way to respond to it. So I have done that, but you know if you're doing it and you do get smashed, then you can't complain about it.

16:07Okay, so how does this affect the title running then, do we think? Will it affect it, Wayne? I don't think it will. I think Arsenal are in a very good position, as good a position you can be at this stage of the season For Man City to catch them, I think they have to win every game and Arsenal drop, what, seven points, is it? City need to beat them and then, obviously, they need to win another game and gain another point to go ahead of them. So I think it's a tough ask. You never know, but I just think Arsenal need to dust themselves down and move on from this quickly. And I'm sure they will go back to winning games and see the title out.

16:46So it's nine points, the gap at the moment, but Man City have played a game fewer. So if they win, that'll be six points. But of course, they've still got to play each other at the Etihad. So it could be reduced to three. It's a seven point swing, you know, in terms of if City beat them. It's all up for grabs. I think psychologically this is huge. When's the game in hand? No, no, it hasn't been decided yet. It hasn't been announced yet. So I think that's big as well, because if that game in hand is before Arsenal play Man City and City win that, I think then it could bring a bit of nerves if they go in six points with City beating them, that takes it to three.

17:20If it's after, I think Arsenal are fine, so psychologically when you're looking at it that way. But I just think Arsenal are too good, sufficiently and too strong defensively to lead slip from here. There's a lot of people already calling them bottlers again. I hate that phrase. Yeah, I know. I hate it as well, but I think players see that. And it's going to be hard for them not to fall into that hype. I think this team's different. I think this team's different. They look mentally stronger. They've also had a few bumps, haven't they? And they've kind of shown that they can recover from them. That's what it feels different.

17:52Yeah, but it's not like losing a cup final. I mean, Wayne, I don't think you lost a lot of cup finals. I did, mate. Yeah, sorry. I lost a few. I lost two to Bastogne, one to Chelsea, one to Arsenal. Sorry, but that's interesting because straight away you rattled them off almost faster, Wayne, than if we'd have asked you your trophies. Yeah, you remember them, of course. That's to the point what Kay is making. you remember the ones you lose because obviously you remember all of them but the ones you lose you're looking back and still now you look back could you have done anything differently we lost to Arsenal penalties in Wales at the final in Cardiff and then to Chelsea the first game to New Wembley next time we lost I think we were the better team in both games but lost them and then the two Barcelona ones you have to hold your hands up you definitely remember the ones you lose what's the worst one for you when you look back sorry to remind you of it Arsenal is it no hesitation that's the one in the black kit as well isn't it you always remember the kits do you know where it is that one because everybody always puts up this image of that team and go look at what we said and it was I remember crying after that game because we absolutely battered them throughout the whole game and then we lost on penalties we did we absolutely battered them and then lost on penalties Scholes he missed his pen and then we lose the game so yeah that was that was the toughest one.

19:16I'm getting the tone from Wayne of let's move on. Sorry I was just intrigued because as someone obviously myself and Kay haven't played to your level but when you've won so much the fact that you automatically bring up the ones that you lose I mean it probably says a lot about your mentality and I guess that's the Arsenal the mentality that Arsenal will be hoping that they have and can kind of use it as fuel to bounce back. Just a quick word on Antoine Semenyo as well because I think we've spoken about him haven't we but he just looks like he's slotted in so well for Man City and he was so important again today.

19:45Yeah, he's a fantastic player and he's shown obviously last season and the first half of the season for Bournemouth and then just kind of on for Man City. I think I heard him talking yesterday saying that was his first cup final or his first game at Wembley. It would have been, wouldn't it? Yeah, and he just didn't look out of place at all. You know, he's the best player on the pitch, arguably. and yeah I think he's got so many qualities to bring and just for City with him on one side and Doki on the other side and you know they look so dangerous when they're all on form so yeah he's a great time for Man City I think I guess that's the concern for Arsenal now that if they're going to find that form that they found in the second half they're going to be breathing down their necks Word on Pep as well.

20:37Where does this leave his future? I feel like every other day there's a story about his future at the moment. Will today affect anything, Wayne? No, I think he'll know what he's doing in the summer. You think he knows now? Regardless, yeah. I think he will. A decision to stay or leave is not a spare moment. This decision you make, you know, you've got your family, you've got plans you need to make from your family point of view as well. So he'll know whether he's staying or going. come the end of the season, I think. I've just got to feel the stay, I think. Do you not think sometimes it was a similar situation with Jurgen Klopp where they're just tired?

21:16Yeah, maybe. And I don't think anyone could have any problem with that because the way he's put in, and he's intense. You can see how he works. He's very intense. So for him to go from Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Man City, for that many years, he took the break, didn't he, when he went out of the States. If that's the case, then you've got to hold your hands up and say congratulations on your career in England. But I've just got to feel Neil Stey. I think he loves football too much. International management could be an option for him. I'm not trying to say international management. I don't see it.

21:51A lot of people bang on about it. I don't see it. I think he needs to be on the grass every day. Because he likes controlling things. The way he works and how much detail he goes into his team, how they play. I think it would be really frustrating for him to only have the players for a week at a time and trying to get their messages into them yeah how do you play his system if you've only got like a couple of days every free month yeah well top managers figure out a way to get the players to do it and there'll be a lot of work in the classroom and stuff but yeah I think he'll I think club football suits him and I think he'll stay at City I just wonder if he's that kind of manager who wants to do it all and win it all.

22:34Do you know what I mean? Because he's won so much at club level that he's so hungry that maybe he'll look at that as another challenge for him. And he wants to kind of complete football, if you know what I mean. Yeah, he could do. It's a bit like Ancelotti now, isn't he? With Brazil. But yeah, I don't think, unless you've managed at international level, then no one can ever label that. Throw that at him and say he hasn't won it because he's never managed it. So he leaves himself a bit more open if he does actually go in for it and he doesn't win it.

23:07OK, so from the teams at Wembley battling for Silverweather this afternoon to the teams battling to stay in the Premier League. It was a big day at the bottom of the table, wasn't it? Spurs nil, Forest 3. I actually can't believe that score, I'm like, but particularly after the first half. Spurs felt like they were really up for it. It had been a positive week for them, Wayne, hadn't it? And this was, well, it goes without saying, not the result they needed. It's a disaster. Absolute disaster for them. Sorry, just the way you said that. No, it is an absolute disaster, I think. Getting a positive result against Liverpool and then obviously beating, I know they went out, but beating the Lettik Unbezirved felt like getting back on track and then the team you're fighting relegation with to play them at home and lose 3-0.

23:55It's an absolute nightmare. It couldn't have been a worse day. Obviously, West Ham losing helps them a little bit, but it couldn't have been a worse day for Tottenham and them fans must be... The fans look like they've lost their belief in it as well. I was watching it with my friend, he's a Spurs fan, yeah. Kay, did you not think the first half though, well, your friend will maybe have a better idea, but it felt like the first half, there was a renewed belief around Spurs and you've seen them miss because... I did, I did. And I said this a couple of weeks ago. I said, the fans, even though the players aren't performing and you feel like they're not running for you, the fans need to get there and get behind the team even backed them because but they need a response they need something to keep them doing that for the 90 minutes and when you're losing at home 3-0 to Forrest I think it's gone beyond now asking the fans to come and turn up and the fans I think they're waiting for them to get relegated that's what it feels like They were treating this like a cup final as well beforehand like they had videos of the captain coming out and saying we're going to battle for you and all sorts and And like what you saw on a pitch completely, there was a massive disconnect with what was going on beforehand and what happened afterwards.

25:07Like I was watching it with my mate Andy, he's a Spurs fan, and he was so frustrated about the result, even halfway through the City and Arsenal game, he was going, three nil, bruv, three nil. Like he just couldn't believe it. And that's all of them have like, all my mates that are Spurs fans have, they just can't believe what's going on. And they've all lost the belief. They're all preparing for next season. And they're like, we're going down. one of them's happy that he might be able to get a season ticket you've got to find the positives in these situations I guess yeah the championship's a good league it's a great league yeah it's a good league so but yeah no for Tottenham what you think only a few years ago during the Champions League final and winning the Europa League last season to go and be on the brink of getting relegated it's an absolute disaster I can't believe to Damner, to be honest.

25:59I don't think anyone can, really. It's huge for Forrest, obviously. I mean, their only saving grace was West Ham losing as well. That's what I was going to say. Where does it leave them? It feels like this pendulum is constantly swinging. Obviously, that gives Forrest a lot of belief. West Ham lost again today. They're still in the relegation zone, West Ham. Is it now between just West Ham and Spurs? No, there could still be twists with the other teams, Leeds, in there as well. I think I watched Leeds yesterday and I thought they were really poor. They can't score, can they? Yeah, but they didn't even look like they wanted to score.

26:30There was no crosses with quality coming in the box. Leeds fans looked nervous. I said on the match today last night, I thought the Leeds fans were poor. And normally, Leeds are home. The fans are brilliant and you get behind them and you push the team. But they looked a little bit nervous yesterday and it's almost like they didn't want to lose the game. So yeah, and this is what happens when you're down there. You're fighting for relegation. All these emotions go through your head when you're playing. and I'm sure that's the case with Leeds. But fair play to Forrest, I think. You've had a tough start with the new manager, but to go to Tottenham and win 3-0, I think that's a huge result.

27:07Yeah, also Forrest kind of in the first half weren't great and the way they came out, I think the first goal kind of gave them the lift. The way they were in the second half, especially given that they'd played extra time and penalties on Thursday too. I personally didn't expect that performance to them. So yeah, well played to Vito Pereira. Yeah, well, that takes away, we've seen Annie Slott moaning about, not moaning, but making people aware about the time they had to recover from their game on the Wednesday and play Saturday. You hate those excuses, don't you, Wayne? You've said it before. No, I do.

27:39I just don't get it. And, you know, there's not that many more games now than there was when we played. And when you're playing games, you have that momentum of playing games. you monitor your training, you get through the games you're fine, there's no excuse and you're flying all the teams on private jets now it's flying comfortable it's getting all the recovery in it's excuses the same for Arsenal, so why can they do it while they're talking to the league Liverpool done it last season won the league, we didn't complain that much then You love making friends with the Liverpool fans, don't you?

28:22Well, he was right, wasn't he? I mean, all their fans are sort of quieting down now, haven't they? They're all calling for their managers to go out because everything Wayne said at the beginning of the season was true. Next thing you know, they'll be calling for Wayne to be manager. Maybe not. It's the one job I wouldn't never take. Just picking up on spurts as well, I mentioned the fact that it felt like their fans had kind of found some belief and the team had given them reasons to feel belief after that point in Liverpool and against Atletico in midweek. It almost felt like beating Madrid, although I know they still went out, ended that hoodoo at home.