In short
Football analysis and debate, mainly Arsenal vs Tottenham (North London derby), plus Liverpool’s struggles, and a segment on Paul Pogba returning to play.
Guests
Wayne Rooney (former Manchester United and England captain; discusses tactics, leadership, and player mentality) and Kate (comedian; cooking and Celebrity MasterChef anecdotes).
Key claims
Arsenal are “team to beat” this season, with strong defensive foundation and attacking freedom; Tottenham’s plan was to stay in the game and frustrate, but Arsenal broke them after the first goal. Richarlison’s long-range strike was Spurs’ only real lifeline. For Liverpool, the panel argues they lack togetherness and defensive work rate; Salah should be dropped to force compactness. They also discuss whether too many transfers and losses (notably Jota) disrupted balance.
Notable examples
Arsenal’s Trossard hat-trick performance; Richarlison’s halfway-line wonder goal; Liverpool’s issues after Van Dijk’s comments; Nottingham Forest’s resilient win vs Liverpool; Pogba’s Monaco return (4-1 defeat, 85th-minute sub).
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOFood and Cooking Banter
1:11 to 3:48
Hosts share humorous stories about cooking and past experiences on MasterChef.
“They're strong, powerful, every player knows the roles, and they look together.”
Arsenal's Dominance Over Tottenham
3:48 to 6:00
Discussion on Arsenal's impressive win against Tottenham and their current form.
“But he's looking like he's fitting in more and more with every game.”
Richarlison's Wonder Goal
6:00 to 7:24
Analysis of Richarlison's remarkable goal and its context during the match.
“Richarlison goal, at that point, it kind of maybe felt like potentially there was a bit of a lifeline for Spurs.”
Abert Reier's Impact on Arsenal
7:24 to 8:02
Discussion on Abert Reier's performance and integration into the Arsenal team.
“As for other standard Arsenal performers, because let's be honest, David Reier didn't have too much to do.”
Martin Odegaard's Return
8:02 to 10:00
Exploring the implications of Odegaard's return and squad dynamics.
“and then now have the impact he's having, yeah, he's going to make a big difference for them this season.”
Arteta's Management Skills
10:00 to 12:56
Analyzing Mikel Arteta's role in creating team spirit and managing talent.
“to be some teams to stop them this year, both in the Champions League as well.”
Liverpool's Struggles
12:56 to 14:00
Discussion on Liverpool's poor form and the impact of injuries.
“So I think you've got to give him a lot of credit for that.”
Assessing Liverpool's Team Dynamics
14:00 to 18:02
Explore the current performance issues and dynamics within the Liverpool team.
“So I think Arnie Slott's got a big job to get them back playing and winning.”
Van Dijk's Leadership Challenge
18:02 to 19:00
Discussing leadership roles and the impact of Van Dijk's statements on the team.
“and Van Dijk best centre-back in the world.”
Klopp's Management Under Scrutiny
19:00 to 24:06
Debating Klopp's tactics and the current state of Liverpool's management.
“It kind of felt like after yesterday's game, there was a few more people saying, looking at Arna Slott's tactics, looking at the record, because let's be frank, it's not the record that we'd expect.”
Show all 15 chapters
Challenges for New Signings
24:06 to 27:51
Analyzing the pressure and performance of new signings in Liverpool's squad.
“And they put Florian Verts and Alexander Isak up in colors.”
Nottingham Forest's Tactical Brilliance
27:51 to 30:21
Assessing Nottingham Forest's performance and tactics against Liverpool.
“It's hard when you're going through one of games and not scoring.”
Morgan Gibbs-White and England Selection
30:21 to 33:14
Discuss the competition between Gibbs-White and Anderson for England's squad.
“I feel really sorry for him, Wayne, because he's looking at Elliot Anderson, who's gone away with England and is probably basically going to be one of the first names on the team sheet for Thomas Tuchel next summer.”
Paul Pogba's Return to Football
33:14 to 36:10
Explore Wayne's perspective on Pogba's return and his time at Manchester United.
“He just looks amazing when he's on the field, man.”
Body Language and Player Performance
36:10 to 38:52
Analyze how body language affects player perception and team dynamics.
“I hope it goes well for him and he can get back playing at the top level because it'd be a shame to have that talent do you think he'll make the World Cup?”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.
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1:06Discover the V-Series line-up at cadillac.com. They're strong, powerful, every player knows the roles, and they look together. They look, they're the team to beat. I think it's going to be, it takes some stopping to beat them. And I get it, he's a club legend, and he's done for the club, but you see him on your team-mates, not running back. If I was Arnie Slott, I'd try and make a big decision just so it has an impact on the rest of the team. Sometimes his body language didn't look great, but he actually used to work really hard. I enjoyed your Instagram. Someone took a photo of you cooking and you looked fuming.
1:46Oh, yeah, I've seen that today.
1:47Kae Kurd:Yeah, it's just halfway through where you're just like, I should have just ordered something in. This is just a bit of a faff. It's the cleaning afterwards as well that gets to me. Yeah. You know, you end up picking that as well, don't you? You're not hungry, won't you? Can you cook, Wayne? Yeah. No, no. I can do what I need to, yeah. All right. Let's not talk about food. Actually, Kate, what were you cooking? Because you post, you put something funny, because you're a comedian. You put something like... No, I put some chicken wings and stuff as well. I made some chicken wings like Korean style.
2:19Nice.
2:19Kae Kurd:Funny enough, I made them on MasterChef as well. but yeah I can cook other things. Have you been on MasterChef? On Celebrity MasterChef yeah. Shut up how did I not know that? Yeah I said I was with Danny Jones. Right. And I was with Nancy Jones sorry Danny Jones and Nancy Delaglio and Paul Chuckle. Have we spoken about this before? Am I the only one that didn't know about this? Did you know this Wayne? No. How did you do? I swear I told you guys. Yeah yeah yeah so it was a mad combination of people um and it was faye from love island as well yeah so it was like five of us it was it's great fun where did you finish oh i got kicked out um after nancy delaglio and then paul chuckle got um kicked out after me um danny obviously went on to win it he was does he just win every reality thing do you know what it is i i genuinely think danny took a like culinary course or something before he went on because the things this guy was coming out with he's like yeah i'm gonna do a little miso soup and i'm gonna do this japanese and i was like bro like you don't just know how to do that do you like you've been taught uh and nancy delagio was great she kept on telling me stories about like uh when her and sven went to see the beckhams and and stuff like that like she had stories for days like loads of them when would you do master chef No No Okay that was short and sweet Neither would I Because I am a terrible cook Okay as per usual Us getting distracted By random stories Let's talk about the football North London is red And comprehensively red I think Wayne What a win for Arsenal Yeah dude I thought they were brilliant I think The strong Powerful Every player knows the roles And So a well deserved win But You know As they come into the team Now obviously he gets his hat-trick, which is amazing for him.
4:14But he's looking like he's fitting in more and more with every game. Trossard, I thought, was brilliant. And they look together. They had a team to beat. I think it's going to take some stopping to beat them. So, yeah, a great win for them.
4:28Kae Kurd:What were Tottenham even trying to do? Can you explain what their tactics were? Because I couldn't see any. Yeah, no, they've obviously gone there to try and stay in the game, to be honest, and hopefully try and nick the win at the end. but when you can see it, then that changes, then you have to come out a little bit more and Arsenal pick them apart after that. So, yeah, no, St Thomas Frank's gone there, he's just seen it, it's hard to slow the game down, frustrate the players, frustrate the Arsenal fans and they were doing that, you could see that on the TV, they were doing that and the fans were getting a bit frustrated but then the goal changes everything and Arsenal are in complete control and you're never going to lose it from there.
5:08Understandably, the Spurs fans will have wanted to see the team go for it a bit more because it's a derby. I completely get that. But Wayne, do you actually understand why Frank did set his team up like that? Yeah, of course. Listen, Arsenal, unbelievable team and especially this year. So sometimes you have to hold your hands up and say, you know, this team better than us. What can we do to try and, you know, to try and win the game and stay in the game? And I think that's what Tottenham have done. And unlike all good teams, Arsenal found a way to break that down and scored. I thought the first goal, Torsad goal, was a great pass.
5:44You got a bit of luck. And then from there, Tottenham, you know, do you stick to your twist, do you go and try and score and, you know, you leave yourself a bit more open. And I thought Arsenal just then dominated and fully deserved the win. So they're looking good. They're looking very good. And if it wasn't for that Richarlison goal, at that point, it kind of maybe felt like potentially there was a bit of a lifeline for Spurs. I don't know if you can really even call it a lifeline cake, can you really? It was a wonder goal.
6:10Kae Kurd:I was like, oh wow, Richarlison's actually Brazilian because when I saw that from the halfway line, he'd done a way in, didn't he? It was like that halfway line. It came out of nowhere as well, but it was a great strike, but it was like the only shot on target they'd had for ages, wasn't it? I think that was their first shot, wasn't it? Yeah, I was laughing because I think Gary Neville had just said just before that Arsenal are not taking any risks. Literally, they lose the ball right in the middle of the pitch and he scores, but yeah, no, it was an unbelievable finish. It's even harder that because the ball was a bit in the middle of his legs.
6:45It went to the side, so it was a really hard technique for him. So it was a great goal. Yeah, I was going to ask, you've scored goals like that. You know what it takes. Just tell us how tough is it? Because, yeah, for me, I just think it looks impossible, but obviously it's not. But yeah, just take it into his mind. Yeah, no, it's just all about where the goalkeeper is because every player can kick the ball from the halfway line into the goal. So it's all about where the goalkeeper is and being aware. You're obviously looking at your goalkeepers and David Reier is always quite high. So he would have known if the ball breaks in the middle of the pitch, he's got an opportunity to score.
7:21So he's obviously known that before the game and his execution was brilliant. As for other standard Arsenal performers, because let's be honest, David Reier didn't have too much to do. Abert Reier will understandably get the headlines, Wayne. Are you impressed at just how well he has settled in and how he's broken into such an impressive Arsenal team already? Yeah, well, I think the first few games he was on the bench, wasn't he? And still obviously trying to get his match fitness up. But yeah, today I thought he was brilliant in picking up pockets, getting on the half turn, running the players.
7:57He's a top player. and to go into an Arsenal team where they've got good players and top players already and then now have the impact he's having, yeah, he's going to make a big difference for them this season.
8:07Kae Kurd:It's the confidence he's got as well, isn't it? Yeah, and you could see after his third goal, you know, you could see he's looking like, and he's in a moment, he's taking it all in. The little flicks and stuff as well. Yeah, and so I think that's brilliant. He was an Arsenal fan, wasn't he, I think. I think so, yeah. So to go and score at Atta against Tottenham in your first Notland derby, he'll have a good night tonight, I'm sure. Did you keep all your hat-trick balls, Wayne? Because you keep all your memorabilia. Yeah, I've got them, yeah. I've got them, so we used to get them all signed by all the players and then take them home.
8:40Hold on, is there one over your shoulder? What were they? Yeah. What ones are they? I don't know. When you scored that many, I guess you don't know what they're all from, do you, Kay? Why am I saying that to you? You've got a sugar over your shoulder. Why am I saying that as if you've got hat-trick balls?
8:56Kae Kurd:I'm sitting in my kitchen. there's none of my achievements over here unless you want a decaf tea did you not put that shelf up no? no oh okay I thought maybe that was one of your achievements does Martin Odegaard get back in this team when he's fit Wayne? he's a captain isn't he? yeah he's captain I think that'll be a bit of an issue for Arteta because I think he looks settled in the team and he wasn't in the greatest of form before he got injured and now he's picked up a lot of injuries so I think it's going to be tough for him to get back in and you always get a bit of leeway being captain as well but I think he's going to have to fight for his place now but surely there's going to be opportunities for both of them to play at different times in a season as well with the amount of games that they have and especially if they go deep into the Champions League I don't think it's going to be that much of an issue do you?
9:44No but I think when all the guards back you'll probably see as I go more to the left again and probably tross out of me out so but yeah listen they've got an unbelievable squad so whoever they play and whoever they leave on the bench to come on and have an impact, there's going to be some teams to stop them this year, both in the Champions League as well.
10:05Kae Kurd:You played in teams with great squads. How did you find it when there was a player in the same position as you that was excellent? Did it make you up your game? Yeah, that's a battle, a fight between you and that player and you want to play better than them and you want to try and make sure you keep your place in the team. So there was never any dislike to anyone. No, of course, but was there anybody that you ever thought, oh, I've got to watch myself here now, like, this is... Not really, when we used to sample it, when Van Persie came in, I knew he was going to play as the number nine. So that's why I dropped a bit deeper.
10:42So, yeah, when you bring players in, you're always looking or you're linked with other players, you're always looking and you're half thinking, I'd love to play with him or he's going to take by place. So yeah, you just got to be ready and keep working. Going back to Arsenal, was this the first time, Wayne, you felt like we've really seen, I mean, we've seen impressive performances from them throughout the season, but this was a big game where they've completely stepped up. They've probably exceeded even what their fans would have expected from the game. Is this the first game where we can really go, okay, these are the main title contenders?
11:16Yeah, no, I think we've known that for a few weeks now. And I think what's, what's Obviously, City losing yesterday, that feeling they would have got a no on earth. Obviously, if they win this game, they create a bigger gap. But I think City, a bit inconsistent, Liverpool are fading away. And they just keep picking up results. And the foundation of it is the defence, defensively the solid. And then that allows them attacking players to go and express themselves and win in the game. So I can't see anyone stopping them. And also, they did that today without Gabriel 2K, didn't they?
11:50Kae Kurd:Yeah, and you saw him celebrating on the sidelines as well, even though he's injured. And that looked like a team that's got a lot of togetherness and everybody's pulling in the same direction. Like when a player is showing that much passion and they're not even on the pitch, I think it can only be a good thing. And it was Hincape, wasn't it, that came in for him. And he didn't have to do much, did he, as well. So it's good that they've got that stability in defence and stuff as well. So I think after that Sunderland game, I thought that teams would sort of try and go at them a lot more. And I thought Tottenham would sort of try and do that as well because in a derby game, anything can happen.
12:29Kae Kurd:But we just saw they just capitulated today. Yeah, I think you've got to give Arteta a lot of credit because to create an atmosphere around the training ground and have a squad of players they've got, a lot of them players will walk in any other team in the Premier League. and to keep them all together and keep them focused and that passion in them, his man management skills must be incredible. So I think you've got to give him a lot of credit for that. Do you know what? And the Emirates, the atmosphere at the Emirates at the end, did you see it? I haven't seen it that loud in ages. No, it was always quiet when we played there.
13:07Little dig, little dig.
13:08Kae Kurd:I was setting you up for that. Yeah, no, listen, why wouldn't it be? I think they've waited a long time. I don't need to try and win the Premier League and seeing good football, getting good results. And I think they'll be getting a bit excited. OK, one team who probably aren't getting quite as excited at the moment are Liverpool. Wayne, you've had your say on Liverpool quite a bit this season. Let's let you have another voice. I heard what you said on Match of the Day last night, but since then, Virgil van Dijk's comments and more have come out today discussing the togetherness in the team. What do you make of what's going on there?
13:47Yeah, they're going through a hard time, aren't they, I think. And I think what I haven't said is you've probably got to look at the effect what Jota's, you know, sadly what happened to Jota, what effect has that had on the players because that's his teammates, he's with them every day and so that surely has to have an effect. but then there's no excuse for not fighting and not tackling I think if your captain's got to come out and say that that's a message to the players that to do the players if you're a captain you've got to come out publicly and say that to try and get a message to your teammates then I think that's that's a big worry so and they don't look they don't look together on the pitch you know when they go and attack they're not running back defensively there's gaps everywhere and so I think it's quite easy to pick apart the faults there and how they're playing.
14:39So I think Arnie Slott's got a big job to get them back playing and winning.
14:44Kae Kurd:Do you know what? I think the Jota thing is absolutely valid but that doesn't explain people like Wurtz and Alexander Isak not performing so far this season as well. And do you think it could be the amount of signings that they've had over the summer that's created a bit of a disconnect in that team? No, we don't know, do we? They might be all best mates. You don't know that, but it certainly doesn't look like that on the pitch. And I think Salah is not helping them defensively as well. And I'm sure if you're one of them players who they've signed and you sat on the bench and you've seen them not running, and I get he's a club legend and everything's done for the club, but if you're on the bench, then what message does that send to you?
15:32You see him on your teammates not running back and he's starting every game. So I think if I was Arnie Slott I'd try and make a big decision just so it has an impact on the rest of the team. Does he need to drop him? Is that what you're saying? I think so. Yeah, I think so, yeah. Wow. Yeah, it's a big step. I guess he's got to change something. When you're not winning games you want to try and stay compact and hard to beat. So I think while they're going through this period, 100 % he needs to make a decision and get them compact, get them hard to beat and every player running back and working back.
16:10And then obviously when they start winning games, you can bring them back in and hope that he is running back more. But I think that'll have an impact on the team for sure.
16:19Kae Kurd:You know what's going to happen now? He's going to come out next week and score a hat-trick.
16:25Kae Kurd:It's been interesting since you had... Or he'll come pull me on the side of the pitch down the field. But since they did that, since you had that little thing with Van Dijk, they've considered six goals. So, I mean, you were right, weren't you? Yeah, well, I think what I've said before is continued really in terms of the performances and they haven't been great. So as champions, you're going to get judged on how you're playing and what results you're getting. And so, yeah, they haven't been great at all. And that's not just obviously Van Dijk and Salah. I say that because I'd like to think they're the leaders in the team.
17:05But the likes of McAllister, who's been there for a few years now. And Gravenberg, who's done really well last season. These players as well have got to, you know, pull a finger out and get around everyone and try and create a team which is going to win again. Have you ever been in a situation, I know you've been a captain as well, Wayne, where you've had to do something similar to what you feel like Van Dijk is doing at the moment in terms of sending a message to his players via kind of what he's saying, via his words? I don't think I've ever tried to get a message to the players through the media.
17:43Sometimes you say things after the game and your emotions are high at him. But I don't think I've ever calculated a message through the media. Maybe his emotions are just high as well then, you could say. Yeah, exactly. So it hurts and you can see that it hurts. Last year I was saying Liverpool are the best team in the world and Van Dijk best centre-back in the world. So I think when you have to take both sides, you have to accept you're going to get good sides.
18:11Kae Kurd:Do you think there's players in there having to look at the manager's tactics or the manager in general and going, what's he doing over here? Yeah, I'm sure the manager's looking at it as well. Because when you lose games, you look at everything. you look at the players, you look at the physios, you look at yourself to try and see if there's anything you're missing to try and help you win games. So he'll be doing a lot of soul-searching, I'm sure.
18:52even when unplugged. Finally, the freedom to move across the room or across the world is here. Snapdragon, that's how. Oh.
19:08Oh. It kind of felt like after yesterday's game, there was a few more people saying, looking at Arna Slott's tactics, looking at the record, because let's be frank, it's not the record that we'd expect. When we're talking about a title race and talking about Arsenal, we're not even talking about Liverpool in it now. People are kind of asking how Arnaz Lott gets Liverpool out of this. Can he get them out of it, Wayne? Yeah, he can. I'm sure he can. But when you're in a run of form like this, you look at a head and you're thinking, this is never going to end, but it will. There's a top team. So yeah, I think the big thing is when he has a run of results like this, Klopp's name keeps getting brought up And it's a bit like the presence with Alex Ferguson, for instance, when David Moyes come in and Van Gaal, you know, Fergie's name would always get brought up.
19:59So I think with Slott, would Klopp keep getting brought up? He's not Jurgen Klopp, he wasn't as good as Jurgen Klopp. But I think the Liverpool fans just need to move away from that and get behind him.
20:10Kae Kurd:I've seen so many Liverpool fans ask for his head this week. There's been so many of them saying, get him out, I've seen enough. Ever since the start of the season, his tactics have been right. I don't know what to think of it, but like you just alluded to there, it's during that period where United had Moyes taking over. How did you feel as players when you went from being a team that's just won the league and then having to deal with a different dynamic now where you're losing a lot more games than you're used to? You're probably not dominating some games and stuff as well. What's going on in the changing room?
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20:46Kae Kurd:What's going on in the training ground at that point in time? Yeah, you've just got to commit to the new manager. And as I said there, I think Liverpool need to move on from Klopp, which obviously they did. They won the league. But when it's not going well, they keep going back to his name. But for us as players, you've just got to listen to the new manager, see what he wants tactically, try and help him in whatever way you can and work, really. And that's what we tried to do. And obviously, we weren't good enough. and it cost David Moyes' job. But yeah, you've got to just adapt. I'm sure a lot of players have played on so many different managers and you have to adapt to whoever comes in.
21:28Do you remember that time well under Moyes Wayne when that was changing and when the tide almost turned against him, didn't it, with fans and media calling for him to be sacked and then of course he eventually was? Yeah, it was tough, obviously, because I knew him. I knew from when I was at Everton. So yeah, that was tough. and I don't know where we finished. It was like eight or something. So we had a terrible season from just winning the Premier League. So it's not easy because ultimately how you play as a group of players has an effect on that person's job. So the best managers find a way to get the best out of different players.
22:08But ultimately, if as a group you didn't do it, you cost them a job.
22:13Kae Kurd:You think with Liverpool currently, because from what I'm seeing with Arnie Slott, it feels like he's a massive fan of Pep Guardiola and that sort of style of coaching. And the players that they've brought in aren't necessarily as physical enough as the league has gone. I feel like the league's on a lot more physical and he's tried to go a bit more technical. Do you think that's had an issue on how the players have reacted this year as well? No, not really. I think you have to run. I think that's the... Fair enough. Simple. You know, you can talk about tactics, you know, all you want with the ball, but when you haven't got the ball, you have to run and get back into your shape and be hard to play against.
22:56You look at, you know, Pep with Man City, they run, they get back, they work hard. So you have to, you know, roll your sleeves up and do the other side of the game as well. And I think, I just think there's a few new players coming. They've lost big players, obviously, sadly, Jota. But Luis Diaz, they lost... Who else was there? Nunes. Nunes. So they've lost some big players who were really important to them. So, yeah, they just don't seem to have that balance at the minute. And I don't think... It looks like he obviously admires Guardiola, but I don't think Liverpool would be able to get to where City are in terms of style of playing.
23:38There's been a lot said, hasn't there, about the number of transfers in and the change at Liverpool. is there such a thing as too much change? Is that what's happening here? I'm feeling a lot of people talking about this at the moment too, Wayne. Yeah, there could be and I think for them new players coming in as well they'll be looking at the players from last season and they'll be looking and thinking they've just won the league and probably feel a bit more pressure the day after trying to do it because the players they've just replaced they probably want to try and prove that they were better than them players so I think there will be a bit more pressure and obviously it's a big club but I think the Isak just needs a run of games I think that's what he needs and none of them have really paid off apart from Eka TK so if I was Eka TK I'd be fuming if I weren't playing
24:22Kae Kurd:Yeah it's a bit sad that like you're in form and because somebody else has come in that they've paid a lot more money for you're not getting to the side there was a tweet I saw from Mo Salah at the beginning of the season where someone had put up a picture of Darwin Nunes There's, yeah, Darwin Nunes and Luis Diaz in black and white. And they put Florian Verts and Alexander Isak up in colors. And it was like, oh, look at this upgrade or whatever. And Mo Salah took some offense to that. And he tweeted, how about let's not disrespect Premier League champions and celebrate new signings as it is. I'm not saying that obviously he didn't agree with a decision for those guys to go.
25:02Kae Kurd:But has there been a time where you may have had it in your career, and what he's probably going through now where you've seen some signings go and you've gone, that's completely the wrong decision. Yeah, well, mine was when Ronaldo left and Tevez left and that's when I asked Alex Ferguson questions about who's coming in because you know that's going to have a massive impact on you as a team. So I think the other side of it as well, just say Mo Salah, for instance, or any foreign players coming in, you don't know what connections and friendships they've got with the team made to, who are also from a foreign country and the kids might be best friends with their kids and all of a sudden that's gone and so they impact that as a home.
25:46So we just don't know. And so maybe Mo Salah might be missing some friends from that point of view. But ultimately, as a professional, you've got to get on with it and keep going. I love the way you've simplified everything today.
26:00Kae Kurd:Just run, get on with it. No, but I think you've got to get on with it and deal with it. and if you're not happy then leave yeah fair enough yeah yeah also I'm wondering what the other the existing Liverpool players will be kind of looking at the new players because obviously they'll have tried to help them settle but I imagine there's part of them looking at Isak thinking you were meant to be our big money signing like will they be looking at them kind of questioning them or is that just not something players do yeah no you do yeah when you sign a new player you're looking at him on the first day in the team grounds and the players got to be ready for it and if not there'll be loads of banter I'm sure when he's like Mr.
26:42Shorten training for instance Even now when it's going kind of not well do you think they'll be laughing Yeah some people are harsh like that but but yeah there'll be questions asked of course on all the new players and there always is until you go and prove that you're good enough to play for that club so I'm sure some players will be sat next to each other saying he's not great He's not Luis Diaz, is he? He's not as good as Luis Diaz. Were you one of these players in the dressing room? Was that the kind of thing you would do? Yeah, definitely.
27:13Kae Kurd:He said he bullied Patrice Everin to actually become a good player. No, you have to, yeah. And that's part of being at a top club. You have to be ready and prove yourself. What does Isak need? Is it literally as simple as a run of games? Because he's come in as a big money star. I feel sorry for him. Yeah, he just needs a goal. Any type of goal, he just needs. It's like the Leeds one today where it just comes off him. Aston Villa one, was it? Leeds? Yeah, Leeds. Where it just comes off him. He just needs any type of goal to get him going. And I'm sure he'll find a good one in form after that. But, you know, he'll be scratching his head.
27:50It's not easy. It's hard when you're going through one of games and not scoring. You just have to try and keep everything simple. Now, maybe this is because I support a smaller club. They're not even in the Premier League anymore. but often when big clubs lose at home or have big heavy defeats we don't focus on the other side of things I think it's really important we focus on Nottingham Forest Firstly Wayne, just how good were they and were the tactics as well from Sean Dyche? Yeah, no I thought they were brilliant and Liverpool had a couple of chances early on to take the lead and I think it was Anderson had a couple of really good blocks and he defended the box, brilliant but then when he won the ball he went forward and went quick and Liverpool struggled to deal with that.
28:30So I thought tactically they were spot on and resilient. They were a bit more like the Nuno, Nottingham Forest team yesterday. And they've got good players who can hate on the break. Yeah, fair play to them. It was a brilliant result.
28:45Kae Kurd:Just goes to show how important it is when you're playing a team. Because if you'd have been playing Nottingham Forest just a couple of months ago when Ange was in charge, you'd have looked at that game rubbing your hands going, and here's three points, lads. But now, like, you're looking at them, and like you said, they're back to looking like the team they were under Nuno, and they're firing on all cylinders, and you've got people like Morgan Gibbs-White, and they're just playing out of their skin. Yeah, I think Gibbs-White was brilliant yesterday. I thought Anderson was brilliant as well yesterday.
29:22So, yeah, now, tactically, they got it right, and Sean Dice, he's a big character. I like him a lot big character sets his team up well doesn't overcomplicate it and he played some good stuff as well yesterday going back to Liverpool I think you can see on the players faces when they can see the goal what can you see on their faces, what do you mean? well I think last season if they can see the goal you see a calmness and don't panic but I think yesterday the camera went in on Alisson's face, Van Dijk's face and you can see a real So when you're on an island, you're slaughtered. And it's almost like, what do we do here?
29:59Do you think? Yeah. Gosh, that says a lot. When the body language is like that, that's quite worrying, isn't it? Yeah, it is. And, boy, listen, they're good enough players. And I'm sure they'll be doing everything to sign it out of it. Right. I'm going to tell you both off because I told you that we weren't focusing on Liverpool. We were meant to be focusing on Forrest. And Wayne's brought it back round to Liverpool again. You mentioned Morgan Gibbs-White. I feel really sorry for him, Wayne, because he's looking at Elliot Anderson, who's gone away with England and is probably basically going to be one of the first names on the team sheet for Thomas Tuchel next summer.
30:32He's been exceptional for both club and now country. And Gibbs White, probably just because of the position he plays, isn't really going to get a look in, is he, at England? Yeah and that's positionally you know you've got Gibbs White's not competing with Anderson he's competing with obviously the players a bit further forward so that's down to him to try and get his place on the plane I suppose and Anderson's come in and been great but you never know with football you look at you look at Calvin Phillips and for I forgot about him for two years he was brilliant he goes to the Euros with England and then you don't see him again.
31:12So you never know and there's a long way to go before the summer. So if Gibbs White keeps doing what he's done yesterday, then he'll give himself a good chance.
31:19Kae Kurd:It's just, this happens to England all the time, doesn't it? Like every era, we get like a position where we get so many great players. Like we mentioned it in a couple episodes ago where you had like a, so many strikers in one position and now we've got like so many midfielders where you're like, So many tens, isn't it? And wingers. Yeah. Yeah. Are you going to fit them all in? I don't know that's for Tushio Lee Karsley tried to play them all didn't he in one of his games I think it was Greece and got beat oh yeah that didn't work yeah but no I think you've just got to and what Tushio has done well is he's picked his squad and then he's picked his team on on who he thinks is best for that game and and he's stuck with it so I don't think anyone apart from probably Harry Kane and Pickford would guarantee a place in the start I think as well, the fact that he doesn't play for one of the traditional big six probably doesn't help him or do him any favours.
32:14Kae Kurd:Because I do think sometimes, whether it's the fan bases or whatever, it does have an effect on whether a manager picks you or not. No, normally the players in the bigger clubs are probably a bigger profile of player. And that's what you probably hear more about that. But I don't think that'll have an effect on the manager. Well, away from the Premier League, Paul Pogba played for the first time in over two years yesterday. He came off the bench in the 85th minute of Monaco's 4-1 defeat. We don't need to go into the ins and outs of why he was banned, but Wayne, just on a personal level, as a player, as someone that kind of has come across him and stuff, how pleased were you for him?
32:49Yeah, no, he's a good lad, Paul, and great to see him back playing. So, yeah, he's a player, Pogba, but we've seen him as a kid in my United Academy. He'd come up and trained with us a few times, and you just look at him, he had everything to be top player. He's obviously gone on, won the World Cup and won big trophies and the last few years have been frustrating for him. But yeah, great to see him back.
33:14Kae Kurd:He just looks amazing when he's on the field, man. Some of his range of passing. And what I always used to love about him was his footwork for a player so tall was just amazing. Yeah, no. Honestly, he was so good. So we'll see. remains to be seen if he can get back to them levels but if he was in a a more flamboyant team if you like compared to our team we had at the time then I think he would have stood out a lot more as well What was he like as a team mate? Yeah he was good do you know what he was really respectful to everyone especially the older players really respectful to them but yeah I know he was a nice team I mean, get on your nerves a little bit with all his dancing and all that.
34:04That's part of his character. Why did it get on your nerves? Yeah, it just depends. Does the time I'm pleased for him? How did you view his time at United, Kay? Did you like him as a fan?
34:16Kae Kurd:I used to love Paul Bogdaw as a fan. I think sometimes he was judged quite harshly by pundits as well as United fans. I think there were times where he was being played out of position and he was still performing. But I think, I remember one game where he had like two or three assists in one game and they were going, well, that's what you expect of a£100 million player. And it's like, firstly, it didn't even cost£100 million. And secondly, we've seen other players go for£100 million and people are like, oh no, they're still trying to adapt to the league. Do you know what I mean? And people make tons of excuses for them.
34:51Kae Kurd:And I think that constant scrutiny and pressure in a team that's not successful, I think it can get to you. Yeah, but I just think as a professional football player, you know that's coming. So you have to be able to deal with it. And, you know, we see it with top players. They get it. They get scrutinised and you get judged on your performances. So it's what's happening at Liverpool now. They get a lot of praise last season and now they're getting judged because they're not doing well. But you have to get through that. Pogba had it I had it Ronaldo has it Beckham had it it's top players get it and that's why you have to time be at your best all the time because if you're not you know the Pum de Targon will come out and say oh you didn't play well because that's the job but you've got to deal with it that's no I know I understand that I understand that but I do think sometimes he was performing well and people were saying he wasn't that was my genuine opinion of it at the time yeah you'll get that anyway but I think as long as your teammates and your manager if they know you're playing well then that's all that matters I've spoken to some ex-players and when they used to come up against him they were frightened because it was like it was strong and they couldn't get near him and all of that sort of stuff as well so I think history will be kinder to him than we know now yeah no I hope it goes well for him and he can get back playing at the top level because it'd be a shame to have that talent do you think he'll make the World Cup?
36:19you never know do you? I think he needs to go and prove himself now and try and get in the Monocle team. And then we'll see from there. But he's certainly got the talent. So that's an evident question. It's more temperament. Is he the desire to go and do that? Yeah, did he sometimes make football almost look too easy? Do you think that was the issue in a way? Yeah, sometimes. And we spoke about body language as well before. Sometimes his body language didn't look great, but that was just the way he held himself and the way he ran was very casual. and stuff like that. So I think that's probably what people look at and think he's not working hard or he's not running, but he actually, he has to work.
36:57Kae Kurd:People used to say the same about Berbatov though as well, wouldn't it? He was just lazy though. He didn't run. Also, that's quite an English thing, isn't it? I think we really like what hardworking players and seeing players that really put the F in. No, I think it's, unless you're Messi or Ronaldo, then, you don't really get away with it and your teammates don't let you get away with that but I think it's just a basic rule in any team really is when you lose the ball, get back and defend and try not concede so the best way to do that is to work and yeah so Beber definitely didn't do that We need to bring him on you know and you tell him he's listening He's funny mate, he didn't speak he used to walk around with his iPad watching his house the doctor oh yeah yeah yeah he used to just walk around watching that all day he looks like he's the type that just watches the godfather on repeat no he's a good he's a nice he's a good lad but yeah we used to you had to stick on him even when we played in that legend game at United last year yeah he was up front and I was playing off the left so now obviously he's not fit I said to him I said Berber swap for five minutes let me go out let me stay up front and you go to the left and literally within 30 seconds he was back up front yeah but that's the difference that's what I was saying before sorry to keep going back to it when he never used to do that we used to scream at him oh really?
38:33yeah he'd be like get back in I'm not running again what did he say? he'd be like get back in, defend and then he'd go and defend oh okay but you had to keep on him throughout the game you had to keep stay on him so and that's what I think some of the Liverpool players should be doing to Salah which is not you can clearly see it's not Alright well I've tried multiple times on this show to get us away from Liverpool but somehow we keep ending up back there so that is where we will leave it Thanks as always guys and thanks for listening to The Wayne Rooney Show we'll be back on Friday a reminder you can listen to us on BBC Sounds or watch on the BBC iPlayer or YouTube see you on Friday
39:15Kae Kurd:whilst Britain was having its Beckham moment, South Africa was having its own. But cricket captain Hansi Cronje didn't kick the ball. He hit it for six. I must congratulate in particular Captain Hansi Cronje. Hansi Cronje could do no wrong, but in January 2000, he did. South African cricket captain Hansi Cronje and three teammates have been accused of match-fixing. I'm Mark Butcher, former England cricketer. Join me for sport's strangest crimes. Hansi Cronier, full from grace. Listen on BBC Sounds.
40:14Snapdragon. That's how.
From the publisher
Wayne Rooney, Kelly Somers and Kae Kurd dive into Arsenal’s dominant 4-1 win over Tottenham.
Wayne explains why he’s convinced no one can stop the Gunners from winning the title this season and they also break down Richarlison’s stunning long-range strike, Eberechi Eze’s instant impact in an Arsenal shirt, and whether Martin Ødegaard will be able to win his place back when he returns from injury.
After another Premier League defeat for Liverpool, Wayne suggests Arne Slot may need to make a bold call about Mo Salah. Should he be dropped? They also discuss Virgil van Dijk’s comments about the team and debates whether Liverpool’s players are quietly questioning some of Slot’s choices and the high-profile summer signings who are yet to settle.
Wayne also opens up on the past, revealing why he felt guilty about David Moyes losing his job at Manchester United, and shares his honest thoughts on Paul Pogba’s comeback and what he made of him as a player and teammate. He also calls out the teammate who was so lazy that he had to be told to help the team out.
