Arsenal’s Lack Of Bravery & Pep’s Last Dance?

0:00This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Pop quiz. What's in your kid's lunchbox? At Whole Foods Market, they've already done the studying. Over 300 food ingredients are banned from their shelves. No hydronated fats in the peanut butter and no high fructose corn syrup in the cookies. And for sandwiches, there are no synthetic nitrates or nitrites in any of their deli meat. So you can pack lunchboxes with peace of mind. Get back to school ready at Whole Foods Market.

0:59open. So jump on the pitch, celebrate it and stuff. We're recording this show on a Sunday night. Wayne's at match of the day. I've got to find out, what time did you get there today? Did you get there crazy early again? No, no, just before the first game, so about 1.30. Got here today, so not as long as the previous one. It's been a long old day though, isn't it? Yeah, they are, especially if the game's not great. Obviously the first game I watched in particular was Forest West Ham and after 45 minutes it was tough but it got better it got better it got three goals in there so yeah and just finished watching the Liverpool Arsenal game so that weren't great either to be honest do you decide what games you're going to do the analysis on or do they tell you yeah we come in and then they'll say which one obviously Joe Hart here today so he'll do the Man City one and then we'll both do bits in the Liverpool game and then obviously the Palace one coming up now Palace in Villa and I've obviously I've presented the show I've been lucky enough to on a few occasions and I think the thing that fascinated me Wayne when you when you haven't done it before the first time you go in it's pretty it is pretty intense isn't it it's not just a case of put your feet up watch the football you're actually made to work hard you do do the analysis runs that we see on TV that they're what you spot and you create them with the team behind the team so to speak yes so as you're watching it you have the analysis lad sat next to you and you're writing down they're writing down points of what you see whether that's tactically whether that's an individual player doing really well or doing bad and then you go through it all and put it together and go through it so yeah it's quite a full on day and then the strange thing is obviously you do all that and then after like 10 hours of being in here you're live on air so that's the when you get tired but no it's good fun You know when a game is boring though how do you find stuff to talk about?

3:04Yeah that's difficult so you're then hoping for a red card a VAR decision just so you can talk about something but yeah that's tough when a game is boring and it's not a great game then you end up scrapping around just to find something to show people which people might be, the fans might be interested in. The other thing that I found key, plan your snacks well throughout the day, isn't it right? Because you're there for a long time and there's a lot of snacks around, there's meals around. You have to kind of tactically decide when you're going to eat and what you're going to eat to kind of keep you going, don't you?

3:41Yeah, because there's loads of sweets and chocolate and stuff just hanging around and then the amount of coffee you drink as well is nuts. So you've got to try and make sure your timing of your last one is because you're up all night but yeah no um there's a lot of stuff around and what's the catering like though um i've just ordered some food in before so just had it during the lift game so i got nando's nando's is the staple it's go-to have you ever done one with mikey yet because mikey always gets the biggest food order ever no no okay well you've got that to look forward to i was on a shoot with him once and everybody else was getting like normal food and he was like can I have some sushi please so it was like four or five different rolls of sushi he should he just popped in before he's filming um a league of their own so he popped in before yeah all right well let's talk about some of the games and from the weekend then and one of the ones that you've watched this afternoon way um we have all just watched liverpool beat arsenal 1-0 dominic sposly's incredible free kick won it uh but k let's be honest it wasn't quite the game we hoped it was going to be, was it?

4:48No, I mean, it was dire. It's weird with Arteta and the way he sets up against some of these sides. You'd think he'd go out all guns blazing. What else are you waiting for? But I think he just goes in a bit dispensive. But Sabozlai was great. I mean, that free kick was amazing. It doesn't look like they're missing Trent at all at the moment. But yeah, I expected more from Arsenal. Yeah, I thought Arsenal... I know what you mean with Arsenal. the league go in games to not lose them and stay in games but I actually thought first half the you know I thought Liverpool were really poor and the game was there for Arsenal you know if they were just a little bit braver and went and actually took the game a bit more to Liverpool I think they can go and win so I think that's a real chance missed for Arsenal today but then I think Liverpool done what you know what champions do they stayed in the game they didn't panic when they you know weren't at the best and obviously a great free kick to win the game.

5:48But yeah, I think from Arsenal's point of view, I think going to Anfield, that's as big a chance today, I thought, which you're going to have. No, I was going to say, do you think he needs to be a bit more brave? Because I feel like you played for a side that, I mean, sometimes to the detriment of it, where you were like, we're going out attacking, that's it, like Champions League final, for example, you went out attacking when you probably should have been a bit more defensive. but do you think he lacks that sort of sense of bravery in those big games? Yeah, I think you could say that at times, but I think we do it late on as well.

6:24Like the last 15 minutes, we get every attack on play on the pitch and get the ball at Waga, crosses in the box, back it up, second balls, you know, and really go with teams then. I feel like if you look today for Arsenal, obviously he's brought Ezay on and Jung Dalman again for 15 year olds a tough place to come on at Manfield and so when you're you know at Ferasl if you're relying on that then that would be a concern but I just think we've seen it over the years we've seen it Man United first game of the season they went and you know and done a job on Man United stayed in the game Man United was a better team and I'm pretty going to win the game 1-0 and I think the problem you have if you don't win the game then obviously these questions start coming at you where should he have been a bit braver you know I don't get why Jose didn't start he's played for Palace this season he's fit you know he's probably on a high after signing for the club when he was a boy so I don't get why he didn't start maybe that's a bit more defensive behind the thinking so yeah I think the game was definitely there for Arsenal today and Liverpool went at the best the crowd were flat it seemed like listening to them and yeah Liverpool found a way to win the game where Arsenal you know I think they've let that that game slip and now obviously give Liverpool the edge 22 games unbeaten Arsenal were against the big six before today but they've actually never won Liverpool or Manchester City do you think that Arteta goes into these big games prioritising not losing Wayne?

8:01I think so I think definitely yeah I think if you you know if you can go to you if you can go to an away team who you're challenging against and take a point away from them and beat them at home then you know you you're delighted with that so i think if i still went to anfield saying what can we have the points i think michael at that to the fans would have been happy um with that but when you don't and you you lose the game then obviously as a fan you're thinking, why didn't we go at them? You know, Liverpool weren't at the best. The fans weren't at the usual best today. If we went at them and you're leaving with regrets, then I think that's what, you know, certainly probably Arteta will be feeling the same way because from watching that game this afternoon, I certainly thought Liverpool were there for taking.

8:53Wayne, as a player, does winning those big games affect the way you approach the league? So does it give you a lot more belief to think you're going to win the title if you're beating the bigger teams? Yeah, of course it gives you that belief. And, you know, I think if you look at Liverpool today, they've beat Arsenal. They've gone into the international break now on nine points. Probably haven't been at the best, you know, in the first three games of the season. But they've won them games and now they can go away, relax, and the manager can, you know, relax a little bit. And then, you know, regroup for the games in a couple of weeks.

9:28but certainly when you win them big games the belief the feeling that gives you not just you the fans as well in terms of going on to win the league obviously it's early days but that just gives you massive hope that you can you can go and win the league and even going going away to teams I remember when we go away to Chelsea or Arsenal or Liverpool City later on you go away and get a point you know you're happy you're delighted with that because it's very easily lose them games as Arsenal have today so going away and making sure you don't lose the game away from home can be just as big as winning.

10:06Was there anything the manager would tell you in those team talks before those big games or was it sort of something like that the players have within themselves? When you go away from home he used to always say the clock is on your side so you use every bit of experience and everything you can and that clock is ticking away as that's ticking away the home team normally is the one to go and time forced to victory so that clock's always on your side and then we will get chances to win the game Anfield was always the toughest place to go away from home first 20-30 minutes it was spin it, you know, Liverpool want to go and pressure get the carb gear up when you get the ball, put in the channels, go and challenge balls up there, win throw and tie up the pitch and we take from there and play our way into the game where sometimes it's not the best way to play and it's not the prettiest, but it was certainly a way of us getting results in difficult games.

11:03Can you ever remember, like, which of the standout games away from home? Because I imagine playing those big ones, particularly at Anfield or stadiums like that, really stand out to you, like... Yeah, a few of the Chelsea games away from home with Mourinho were really difficult. They were tough games and Mourinho's teams were nasty. They were horrible. they knew everything as i've said before they knew every little trick in the book to um you know to get into the referee to you know waste time when you need to so they were always difficult games and i always remember the lift pool game when um john o'shea scored i think it was like 90th minute something like that um paul's gold i got took off carliger jimmy carliger smashed me and cut all my knee open I was starting to carry on but it was pouring with blood so they had to take me off so I was in the restroom and the doctor was stitching me knee up and then as I was in there Paul Scholes comes in so he'd been sent off so we're drawing a game 0-0 so Scholes is sat there and I'm sat there getting stitched up and then we had a cheer so we thought oh no they've scored and we went out someone come in and said do you want to know what I'm saying I'd scored like 93, 94 minutes so I've run out I've got no boots on no shoes I've got my knee half stitched up half open so jump on the pitch celebrating and stuff it was them moments that feeling you get especially obviously for myself as well at Anfield they were special moments so yeah it was always great when you win like that away from home they were magical moments Did you relish going to Anfield Wayne?

12:44I hated it Did you? Yeah, I hate this. I think just emotionally going to Anfield, just the thought of losing the game, it was just horrible. And obviously you're thinking if you win, how good it's going to feel. And it's the same when we played Chelsea in the Champions League final. You win it, the feeling you get is incredible. But the thought of losing, I was just like, at Anfield emotionally, it just got to me quite a lot of times. Was being a scouser yourself, did that play a part in it? Yeah, you know, I was... Fans didn't like Liverpool from that. Then went to United, didn't like Liverpool from that.

13:23He's literally everything Liverpool fans hate. So beating Liverpool was such a good feeling. But then, obviously, on the flip side, that losing was... I think we could have got them in the Champions League final. Yeah, I think it was Liverpool-Chelsea, wasn't it? The semi-final. So I was so glad it wasn't Liverpool in the final. You know, to play Liverpool in the Champions League final would have been too much, I think, for me. I don't know if you know, but you scored the winner in a 1-0 win at Anfield, twice in 2005 and 2016. But you actually didn't score there in the 11 years in between. Do you think that was a...

13:58Why was that? What was that to do with the fact that you literally hated it? Yeah, no, I didn't enjoy it. And to be fair, Goddardson was the same as well when I used to go back to Goddardson with United. And Alex Ferguson said many times, he's not playing me. at Cuddlesbrough Anfield. He used to say it many times and he could see it in me and so that was, he knew emotionally he'd gone back to them two grounds. Especially Anfield, I think, he knew that was tough for me. If you could go back now and tell the Wayne Rooney that was playing in those games what to do in order for that not to affect you, what would you say?

14:35Yeah, just relax. In those games, you win there, games you lose there, of course, they're a good team and yeah I think I just got emotionally sucked into the atmosphere to the banter obviously with fans and stuff and just found it tough to be honest so yeah it was and there was games I went there and played well and didn't score as well but a lot of the time I didn't play it was never my best or my most favourite ground to go to I promise on this podcast I won't come armed with too many stats like that but most of them will be positive because there aren't many stats like that about your round.

15:11I wonder if you can remember your first trip to Anfield. Did you go as a sob with Everton? Yeah, I was on the bench and we drew the game 0-0 and then we were drawn and I come on, I think it was about 20 minutes to go, something like that. And I ran through, I hit the crossbar first, so nearly scored. And then I went through and it was Chris Kirkland in goal and he's come out and we've collared with each other and my hip was hanging off, my hip was killing. But I couldn't, at Anfield, the amount of times I got smashed there as well, and I couldn't stay down. So I've got up and I'm walking, and honestly, my hip was absolutely hanging off.

15:50I had one with Harry Keel, where he just lifted his foot, his studs up, and Carragher done me a few times there. And you've just got to get up. If you stay down, then the crowds are on you. But yeah, the first time, I've come really close to scoring a winner, which would have been incredible. OK, so let's bring it back round to the Liverpool results today then. It's early in the season, isn't it, for us to really make assumptions or guesses about the title, about Liverpool or Arsenal's chances, 35 games remaining. How are you feeling, though, about Liverpool's chances? You've alluded to the fact that maybe they're not at their peak at the moment, but they are still winning games in contrast to Arsenal, who kind of aren't at their peak but also aren't winning all their games.

16:32yeah no I think Liverpool will be there and there about I think they're a good team they've got good players it's a sign of a good team when you're not at your best you're winning games I think if you look at City obviously they've lost two of the three games so I think the last team to lose two of the first three games and win it was United in 92-93 I think so I think City, Arsenal will be there and there about as well I think they've got a really good squad and so yeah and Chelsea I think it'll be Chelsea are the surprise one I think who got so many good players you know you can't see them not being close to him and then yeah I think that they're the four but I think Liverpool's chances are you know they're a very good team they've got that knowledge of winning the league you know twice over the last few years and obviously last year so I think they'll I still think they'll be the favourites Do you think it's now or never for Arsenal?

17:31maybe not for Arsenal but I think for Arteta possibly I think you know they've allowed him to obviously bring a lot of players in spend a lot of money and you know they've been close over the last few years and I think this year really he'll be expected and I imagine the board and certainly the fans will will be expecting him to win the league so I think it could be a big year for him Do you think it's now on Everkay in the fact that you posed that question? yeah I mean I agree with everything Wayne said there but like yeah I just think he's got one of those sort of attitudes where I mean you've seen the documentary and stuff it feels like he listens to self-help podcasts and's got like a poster of Jake Humphries up on his wall and stuff like he's um yeah it's like a bit the high performance about him isn't it and it's like all of those things that he does like playing you'll never walk alone in the training ground and stuff it just all seems a bit like extra like they sound great if you're winning but when you're not it just sounds like you know like focus on the tactics like just be a bit braver do you know what I mean you don't need all these like little you don't need to draw like a picture of a light bulb on a that's the thing you're never going to recreate the atmosphere of Anfield so and I understand why he's doing it and what he's doing but to recreate the atmosphere of Anfield with a couple of speakers.

18:57Did you ever do anything like that as a manager, Wayne? No. No, certainly not. You didn't draw a light bulb on a whiteboard or anything like that? No, but the song, obviously there's things you can say to the players in which they're a bit out there and to get the players thinking a little bit. But yeah, no, I think certainly not to that extent. What was the most out there thing you've done? I don't know. I probably can't say it to be honest. there's different things you can do and and again you're trying to get your players in a place where you know they're thinking about a certain thing if that's whatever that is you want them to think about or trying to relax them a little bit so yeah it's I think there's a lot you can do but certainly not I certainly didn't do to that extent by the end of the season we'll find out what Wayne did to motivate his players the weirdest thing he's done So we spoke about Liverpool and Arsenal.

19:55Let's now speak about Manchester City because they lost the second successive game after that big win against Wolves on the opening weekend. They lost 2-1 at Brighton following their defeat last weekend too. Go on, Kay, what do you want to say about that firstly? Well, fewer points than United. So, you know, apparently we're having a meltdown and we've still got more points than them. So you've got to revel in that. if I can't revel in that what am I even here for? It was the first thing you put in the WhatsApp group as soon as they lost wasn't it? Yeah well look you know we played badly yesterday and we still won so you know that's a sign of a championship team so there you go.

20:35Wayne, Manchester City what do you think is going on there because they did look good against Wolves obviously Wolves haven't picked up any points this season but it's been a disappointing couple of weeks for them again. Yeah it hasn't I think it actually started the game really well and I was looking watching the game as well and I think Ireland's first six touches he had five shots at goal and then obviously got his goal as well and so it only looked like there was going to be one winner but then to be fair to Brighton they come back they got back into the game and the manager was really brave he made four changes at once changed the outlook of how the game was going and obviously they get back in and then get the winning goal so yeah I think City they're still finding quite a few new players so it looks like they're still trying to figure out each other's game and figure out how to gel better together they've lost big characters obviously out of the restroom as well so yeah I think Pep will be very disappointed and I don't see them as favourites I think every year over the last few years I've I know they didn't win last year but I've seen them as favourites in the best team and I think I don't think they're in the top two or three this year.

21:50So it's going to be an interesting season for Manchester City. Why do you think they're not there? Is it because too many new players? They're in transition? Yeah, I think there's new players. I think if you look at Arsenal, again, they lost game three. They look like they've got a good squad and they all know what they're doing. Liverpool are the same. Even though Liverpool have brought new players, I think they all understand what they're doing and how to play. I think City... And what doesn't help, obviously, with the Edison situation, which I imagine he'll probably leave in the next 24 hours, is, you know, he brought young Trafford in goal and he's a very good goalkeeper, but Edison still sat there.

22:31And again, I think I said it last week, he's got mates in there. It's never good when you've got a player who's there, he knows he's not going to be there or he doesn't want to be there. And just, you know, the negativity that can bring amongst the team. And when you're in a hotel night before a game and the players on the phone to the agents to and talking about how Agoky was leaving or he's on the phone and the clubber onto him saying you're not leaving, whatever that is. That has an effect on the whole squad. Oh, certainly a lot. Pop quiz. What's in your kid's lunchbox? At Whole Foods Market, they've already done the studying.

23:06Over 300 food ingredients are banned from their shelves. No hydronated fats in the peanut butter and no high fructose corn syrup in the cookies. And for sandwiches, There are no synthetic nitrates or nitrites in any of their deli meat. So you can pack lunchboxes with peace of mind. Get back to school ready at Whole Foods Market.

23:34Wayne, can you draw any parallels between the time when you were at United and they were in a transition period and where City are now? because we went for a period where we weren't winning the league and there was a rebuild of sorts and you were there. Do you think there's any parallels between that or do you think City are going to be successful again under Pep? When we went through it, obviously, you've got Alex Ferguson there and there's no questions whatsoever if he's going to be the manager or not or is he still going to be here in three, four years' time. So that makes it easier, obviously, for a club going in transition where I feel if Man City don't win the league this year I don't think Pep will be there so it might be a team in transition looking for a new manager and new players so I think that it is a little bit different and Pep might not even be there if they do win the league you don't know so I don't think it's one way you can look at it and say we're going to take the next three years to rebuild another title winning team when there's still probably uncertainty whether the manager will be there in that time.

24:43Do you think he's got a lot of new players in too quickly where a lot of them aren't used to winning with City? Yeah, maybe, but I think they've had to, obviously, with players leaving. As I said, Man City have lost some big characters from that test room. When you look at it and you think, Kevin De Bruyne, Kyle Walker, Jack Grealish. Now, it looks like Heatherson's going to leave. So they've lost some big players out of that test room. And probably if they had a leadership group last season, for instance, probably all them players would be in that. So they've lost a lot of leadership out of the team.

25:20So I think that's difficult to replace. Just that know-how when you're in a tough game, then players will probably be the ones that help get you through that game. And they've lost that now. And I think they've put new players in, obviously, fantastic players, but that will take a little bit of time to gel. Is there also a psychological aspect to it, Wayne, for the players when they're winning week in, week out, and then all of a sudden that isn't the case anymore? How hard is that to deal with as a player? I think there's also a psychological aspect in terms of the opposition. So if you imagine two or three years ago, Man City got 1-0 up against Brighton, I don't think anyone as a fan, anyone watching the game, or any Brighton player, will believe they can get back in that game and win it.

26:03where now I feel even if they go a goal up I think teams are thinking you know what we can still get something here so I think that's the difference when teams believe that they can get something you know from here even if they're a goal down then that change and that mindset is so powerful so I think that's where teams right now against Man City and I think we've certainly seen that last season and already we've seen that this season as well Wayne you see when like you lose the league. What was the dressing room like there? Who's there trying to say we've got to go back next year and win this?

26:44Well, we looked at the other way when we won the league. I always remember in Moscow in 2008 when we won the Champions League. Obviously, we're all celebrating and I remember Alex Ferguson getting up on the mic and saying, enjoy your night, I'm going to bed. Tomorrow, we focus on winning the league next season and that's that's how it was in a when you when you don't win the league yeah it's difficult and you you look at how you can you know maybe bring players in and normally you know which players are gonna leave them which plays you bring in to help but you know all that's going on behind the scenes with the manager and and then no we have to do the worst one of all time when in City beat us when Phil Jones and the images of Phil Jones on the side of the pitch and that was horrendous you know we come off we finish the game against Sunderland and we we won the league and City had three minutes left I think that game and then they scored one all the Sunderland fans started cheering and then literally 30 seconds later they were cheering again and we thought the wind was up but it obviously was it was rioting and we lost the league there and then we're all we're all stood the side of the pitch waiting to celebrate so that was the that was the toughest one but yeah it's it drives you on really both winning it and when you don't win it it's something you want to taste you want to taste it again Okay so there's been some really good football this weekend as I said at the time of recording still got one game to go as well but also it's transfer deadline day on Monday and we have been talking about Wayne's transfer stories last week but it's the busiest time of year if you are a journalist and Sammy Mockbell the BBC Sports senior football correspondent is probably one of the busiest of the lot and joins us now sammy um do you want to put a clock on so you can only be here for a couple of minutes so you can race off because your phone's i might have to because i am actually on my phone so my messages my whatsapps are just going sammy in terms of we'll come on to the specific deals in just a moment but i'm fascinated um how your life works during this period i know that sounds a really stupid question but you're married you've got kids and every time anyone ever sees you I think you're on the phone like and now you're coming on here having to speak to us idiots sorry about that like what is the window actually like like a day-to-day do does your life just go on hold that's like a dagger to the heart Kelly literally my kids said I'm at home but my kids always say daddy's always on daddy's always on his phone mommy daddy's always on his phone mommy so it's a killer so uh you've just thanks for that at least you can say you're working yeah that's true that's very true you've got an important job that's what you need to say to them yeah but yeah no it's the life of a journalist a football journalist during a transfer when those you're kind of on duty from the minute you wake up to the minute you go to sleep and when you're sleeping is your only lull so you literally you'd be on the school run taking the kids to school or taking kids to nursery and something might drop on your phone and you and you you've immediately got to kind of engage even though you've got the kids in the car trying to get them away um you go on holiday we went to greece we went to greece for a couple of weeks and you just can't it's impossible to switch off during the window so like i'm on i'm on the sun lounger just texting surely you write to the kids school and say sorry i know i'm not allowed to take them out when it's not the summer holidays but i'm a journalist You've got to give me some grace here.

30:21Yeah, no. Listen, they understand it. Like the family, the kids understand it. And the family, well, I don't know if the kids do, but thankfully my missus used to, before she's doing what she's doing now, she used to be a journalist. Okay. So she kind of gets, she kind of understands it to a point. But I think she draws the line at me being on the sun lounger in Greece, being on the phone. I think that was where it nearly kicked off and exploded. Sammy, do you ever get to a point where you're getting so close to breaking a story then somebody like Ornstein or Romano breaks it first. Are they like your rivals?

30:56All the time. No, but I don't really know. I don't really know for a bit. I've only met him a couple of times. But I'm mates with David as I know David. So, yeah, listen, we're all vying for the same stories. But those two are excellent, excellent operators. And, you know, we all get, we all sort of, you win some, you lose some, right? You get some stories and you miss out on others. And there'd be loads of times where I thought I'd had an exclusive story. It doesn't have to be a transfer story, any story. But you press the button to send it to the office so they can put it online or put it in my previous job as a newspaper journey.

31:38You can put it in the paper for the next day. And then lo and behold, 10 minutes later, you go on Twitter and someone else has done the story. and it's yeah it's that's where it must be it must be so difficult now with social media and that as well it's obviously I suppose that helps in some ways but also from your point of view that's people can just make up anything and put it on social media though as well can't they yeah you've got to trust yeah it's hard to yeah you can't take stuff on social media too seriously but then equally there are some excellent sources on there are some excellent accounts on X that have genuine and accurate information.

32:24So you've kind of got to respect every source. It has been a bit of a bonkers window so far. So let's just talk about some of the deals that we're looking out for on this final day of the transfer window. It's crazy. It's crazy. I mean, we're still like thinking about where Mark Gahey is going to be. Yeah, go on, Sammy. That's a good one. Yeah, so that's moving. If I was a betting man now, I think that deal has got a very good chance of happening. So Palace will sign Toulouse defender JD Canbot. That deal is pretty much done as we speak now. They're looking to get another one, a more experienced one over the line.

33:06They were trying to get Joe Gomez on loan as part of the Grehe deal. But with Ibrahima Konyase tonight getting injured and Joe Gomez coming on and playing well, I just wonder if that has changed the dynamic. Liverpool have said that he wasn't available on a loan, right? I think there was an element this afternoon where Liverpool might have been thinking about changing their minds to facilitate that Grehi deal. But having watched the Liverpool game, Cognate coming off and Gomez coming on and actually doing well, seeing the game out, there's a part of me that wonders now if Arnie Slott says, actually, no, we don't want him to go and we want him to stay.

33:55which would then mean Liverpool Palace need to find another central defender before letting Gwehi go. But I think they'll get one. I think they've got a few irons in the fire. But that might be one now that drags into deadline day. We've had a lot of chat on this podcast, which won't surprise you, about Manchester United and also about the goalkeeper situation. There could be potentially some good news for United fans on that front. Yeah, so they've been linked with the... Obviously, Emi Martinez from Aston Villa, who isn't in the squad tonight, from what I understand, for their game. So he's not involved.

34:43And there's also a goalkeeper at Bruges, whose name escapes me now. Lemans. Is it Saint-Lemans? Lemans, that's it, Lemans, yeah, that they've been talking to. So, look, I think it's an area that clearly needs strengthening. They won against Burnley on the Saturday, but Bayern Deer's performance that day was, to me, illustrated just how deeply they need a new goalkeeper. So, it hasn't surprised me that 24 hours after that game that United have appeared to ramp up their chase for a new goalkeeper I think they'll get one of those two either Martinez or Lemmes over the line by my Monday Wayne what are you hearing on that one or what do you think will happen I'm hearing same as you yeah what would you like to happen from Manchester United I think Martinez is obviously a top goalkeeper and I think if that could happen then that'd be great.

35:47I think him or Donnarumma, for me, would be a fantastic acquisition. I think it's clear they need a goalkeeper. I think it's every game we seem to be talking about mistakes or the goalkeeper's not filling the defence with confidence. So, yeah, I think it's hopefully over the next 24 hours. I think Martinez would be the one who would really improve them a lot. So it'd be nice to see him. Okay, agree. Do you know what? I was expecting some excitement then. Do you know what? I think anything's an improvement on Bayendere and Ana, but I think Emi Martinez is quite prone to some of those mistakes as well.

36:31You saw the last game of the season last year as well. I mean, when he was at Old Trafford and he came out and got sent off because he was trying to charge at Hoyland. And it was things like that that just, I don't know, it doesn't strike me with confidence especially when Aston Villa don't want him as well it's interesting why don't they want him PSR maybe as well I don't know who knows we haven't got anyone that can answer that question on this show I don't think Sammy we'll let you go the Whatsapps are probably going crazy enjoy the next 24 hours or so if you can are you going on holiday after?