Carrick In Charge! KLOPP to United?! Ornstein and McKola REACT

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1:20Visit our kitchen showrooms in-store or go to menards.com for free estimates today. Plus, check out our weekly flyer For all of our hot deals Going on now Save big money at Menards I get why they haven't gone with Oli The issue is the players Despite what a lot of people are saying Who would take it? The opportunity to get it right at Manchester United Is one of the biggest in world sport Go throw the bag at Jurgen Klopp And see what it does City haven't been amazing all season so just wait until Saturday. Given everything that's going on at Manchester United at the moment, we thought it was only right we all got back together again at our haunt that we were in before Christmas.

2:06The church in Immobily, myself, Wayne and Kay are joined by two guests to have a deep dive on the situation at United. Adam McCullough from the club and Stretford Paddock and renowned journalist from The Athletic, David Ornstein, who I'm sure has been very busy. Given it's the transfer window as well, thanks for being with us. Wayne let's start with Michael Carrick when we spoke on Monday we thought he was going to go in it has been confirmed I imagine you're really pleased Yeah no it's a great opportunity and I think it's it's probably the obvious choice really because I don't think there's any you know top top managers out there available at the minute and Michael is very measured he's been in before I know it's only three games but he's done really well and so I think it's the right choice at this moment in time so I'm pleased for him hopefully he does well and obviously he's brought his staff in as well I think Steve Holland's a really good appointment as well I work with him with England and tactically he's very good so yeah we're all in hope and hopefully as well it's a difficult task of course because where Manchester United at the minute is not a good place and he's got to go in time steady steady last year we knew that Wayne was hoping this would happen Kay you seemed pretty on board with the Michael Carrick thing yeah I mean I think I think it's it's the right decision I think I mean I would have I wouldn't have minded if it was Oli again but I think there's that thing from the board where they think you're taking a step back you're going back to someone that you've already been through but you have also been through Michael Carrick before only three games no no but like it wasn't a permanent appointment and the three games that he did have, two wins and a draw.

3:52I think he's the right man to sort of steady the ship. And I think, yeah, look, I'm not expecting massive things from him, but I think just someone to steady the ship and try and get us as close to top four as possible at this stage. Like, my expectations aren't high, so it's not... As long as we don't get relegated, I'll be happy, to be honest with you. We laugh. There's still a chance. Adam, what is the mood amongst the fans? because it's been turbulent again, but it's been turbulent a few times in recent years. I kind of just feel like the season's over and it's another season wasted, which it kind of is.

4:26We've gone out of the cup. There's nothing we can really play for now. Obviously, Kay keeps telling me there's still Champions League to play for, but it doesn't feel like a real season. And we are as close to 12th as we are to those in 4th. So we have to go on some form and get settled down and kind of see things through. I get why they went with Michael Carrick. I was all aboard the Ali at the wheel stuff again but we saw how it ended with him and when I saw him in tears in that interview on MU TV I can't lie I didn't want to go through that again and you kind of feel if he did come in Ali and you lose against City Arsenal I think immediately you're just back to the doldrums of just being depressed again so hopefully that's different under Carrick no but he's not as scarred by previous times at the club I don't think obviously if Ali came in and lost a few games I think everyone goes, oh, it's happening again.

5:17What we saw towards the back end of his time. Well, they were branding him a PE teacher from the get-go, weren't they, with Oli? Whereas I think Carrick never had that. What the club is doing is, it's not taking players' legacies. But, you know, we're talking about Oli Gunnar Solskjaer, he's a club legend, and you hope that doesn't happen to Michael Carrick. And Darren Fletcher, I know he only had the two games, but you're having people talking bad on players who give so much service to the club. and that's what the closest is doing to some of these ex-players. So it is difficult, but I do think I get why they haven't gone with Oli.

5:51I think Michael Carrick is measured and he has got a main streak in him. And the issue is the players. Has he got that though? Because as a player, we never quite saw it. He has, he has 100%. And I'm close to Michael and I think you don't be fooled by him, because he is quite measured and he won't take any crap from people. The issue is the players, so many managers have tried to get a tune out of these players and failed, and so that's going to be the difficult task for them. In your last episode, you spoke about the United way and bringing the club back to those values and stuff. As fans, we kind of know what it looks like when we see it on the pitch.

6:36We get to see it in two occasions most of the time, press conferences with the manager and how they speak and on the pitch. As a player though, if you were in the dressing room, what does that look like this week? A manager coming in and bringing... What happens for them? Well, I think from my time at the club and what I know and what I've seen is Manchester United have always had leaders in the dressing room and players who demand respect in there and really set the culture of the football club. And of course that comes from the manager, that used to come from Salix Ferguson, but that is run deep in certain players and when you sign new players, that gets put into them.

7:21And I remember when I signed for the club and I'm speaking to Brian Robson, to Sir Bobby Charlton and getting the history of the football club and you just wonder if that's happening at the minute. There was always a big relationship between first team and academy and I don't think that's been there. I've obviously been on the other side now with my children. I don't think that's been there for a long time. So I think that there needs to be a complete togetherness from the whole football club, not just the first team, not just first team managers, coaches, 21s, 18s. The whole academy as well needs to come into play because that was always when you hear people talk about Manchester United and this is a real family club.

8:03I think that has has lost his way a little bit it doesn't help when Amarillo was throwing the kids under the bus though is it like in press conferences that's the complete opposite to what you're talking about when he was saying the kids aren't it's not just that not turning up to FA Youth Cup games as well I think that's quite important and I remember the early period of time when he came in he was at he was at Carrington going to games and being seen and stuff and then not seeing him at those games it was well we used to have loads of players loads of first team players used to go to the Youth Cup games Even when there were games at Carrington, if we finished training, there was a game at one o 'clock.

8:39We'd all walk over and watch from the other side of the pitch, but we'd watch the games and then we'd go to the U Cup games. The difference that makes to them young players who were playing is huge. I think all of this is why they were so keen to bring in from the outset, as my understanding, somebody that was really strongly connected with United in this interim role. Because if you think back to previous occasions, it was Ralf Ranić who didn't have any Man United background. They tried to bring in an interim sort of world-renowned coach or football guru. And the last two permanent managers in terms of Eric Ten Hag and Ruben Amarin have obviously tried to implement their own imprint on Manchester United.

9:23There were many reasons for Carrick getting the nod, as I understand it. Firstly, I think he was a stronger candidate from the outset than people were giving him credit for because there was, understandably, a lot of noise around Oli because of the connection with the fan base and the history. And the job he did last time before it went wrong. He was in the job for like three years. The longest serving since Fergie. Yeah, people forget that, I think, how long it was. Exactly. It was a real stint. And there was, understandably, a lot of emotion around it. But Michael Carrick seems to have been very highly rated as coach from the job he did in that small period, the job he did at Middlesbrough and the regard he's held by players, executives, people in the game.

10:06I also think Oli may have seen it as not an ideal situation. He would have taken it, of course, but he wanted to come in with an eye on permanency again. He regards himself as a permanent manager. He also, to my knowledge, sees Manchester United as still being a big project and a rebuild that he would love to get his teeth stuck into over a number of years. Whereas Manchester United, Jason Wilcox, who led this process with the support also of Omar Barada and ultimately both parts of the ownership group led by Jim Ratcliffe on the sporting side, they wanted an interim. They want a permanent successor from the summer.

10:43Now maybe Michael Carrick will come into that, you don't know at this point in time, but I think they're looking for a big name, a world-renowned coach manager who can fit into their system. They've now got some space and time to do it. And in that meantime, it's trying to rebuild the connection that you guys talk about that appears to have been somewhat lost. Well, I think a big thing from a fan's point of view as well is Michael Carrick coming into the football club. You've got someone who wants to come in and wants to be there because I know 100 % Michael Cardock would not go into any other football club as an interim manager.

11:18So he's going in because he wants to be there. He wants to try and help the football club. And whether that, as you said, whether that turns into a long-term solution. It almost feels like it could be a bit of an audition for him because he has been a manager. He's clearly highly rated. If he does well, there's no reason why he wouldn't be in that conversation. Yeah, well, that's exactly what happened to Oli as well, isn't it? I think that hampers him, though, a little bit. Yeah, but you never know. I think what he has done, I know we rate Jonathan Woodgate really highly from his time at Middlesbrough with him.

11:46And as I said, I've worked with Steve Holland. So I think he's put some good people in there, in the football club. But I think for the short term, you can't look past, you know, the game on Saturday, the City game. Didn't listen to your advice and wait till after City and Arsenal, did he? I know, but you can't look past that next game. and what we all want to see is just the club getting some structure and getting steadied in this next few months. And that's the main thing because it's been in a bad place certainly over the last two or three years. One of the things they're going to have to be so careful about is not just falling into, I don't want to say trap because Oli did well when he took over permanently, but almost saying, we'll see how he does with a view to him becoming permanent manager because the dynamics change so much.

12:37The sort of bounce or euphoria, the reconnection that comes with an interim. We've seen it at other clubs as well. And then that temptation to let them carry on. And more often than not, the short-term decision brings like a bit of a downfall. Even when Eric Ten Haag got given that new contract off the back of the FA Cup, then it slumped straight after. So they need to conduct a proper, really thorough, diligent process led by or with support of people who know the market, research it properly, speak to the candidates. And maybe that will include Michael. Are they doing that? Is that process starting?

13:11It presumably starts now. There are a lot of very good quality managers and coaches who are in positions now, which makes it difficult to speak to them. Not impossible, but by the book, you probably have to wait a little bit of time until contracts expire. Crystal Palace, Fulham, Bournemouth, until teams get knocked out of the World Cup, England, Brazil, Germany, USA. And there'll be others who have clauses that allow them to leave either for fees that are lower in the summer or can't be activated now. So, you know, this is a moment at which the emphasis will come on that sporting hierarchy at Manchester United.

13:54My view is that Manchester United still remains one of the most attractive jobs in world football, despite what a lot of people are saying. Who would take it? You can list an enormous amount of coaches who would. And the opportunity to get it right at Manchester United is one of the biggest in world sport. So they're going to have candidates who want it, either those biggest names or some more up-and-coming coaches. And the onus is on this regime now. The eyes are on them. And I think we've got to give them an opportunity to get it right. I was going to say, you know better than most people. What was the feeling like from other clubs around Michael Carrick as well?

14:33Was he quite sought after by certain other clubs as well? Because I heard rumours about Tony Bloom really liking him and other sort of clubs that were interested in him. Or is that just hearsay? Wayne, you know more on a personal level, from the industry, you don't hear anybody speaking anything other than highly of Michael Carrick. It's an industry that is very quick to slag off people and it's quite bitchy. and therefore when you hear somebody like Michael Carrick held in very high regard, then you take it seriously. It didn't end too well at Middlesbrough. I think things were getting tense between himself and the media and maybe people inside, players, the club as a whole were getting quite wearied by it.

15:14And it was quite interesting. Michael took some time for introspection after that. Yeah, I wondered if Wayne could provide some minutes. What's he been doing in the last few months? What was he looking for? On a beach or do you? other than taking so much we went to my Peter together then we went to my Maydus together then he came to your 40th as well didn't he he's had a great time yeah no listen Michael and I've said this before he's great fun he's great fun to be around he is a great character and that's why I said before don't be fooled by how calm he looks and how mature and which he is don't be fooled by his maturity no no which he is but he can have fun as well but make no mistake he'll be going in there now with full focus and as I said before I know there's been other clubs who have been sniffing around him and he didn't want to take anything he's a big family man so he wanted to take some time with his family as well because he's been into football a lot and give a lot of time to it but this opportunity has come up and there was no way he was going to let it pass and he's a big Man United fan I know obviously he's from Newcastle and that was his boyhood club but he's a big Man United fan his lads same team as my lads in the academy so I think it's the right fit for this time because it will bridge a lot of the gaps which have been there at the football club and he knows what the club means to the fans to the staff I think the staff have been down at the football club over the last few years and we've seen all the redundancies and how that's played out so I think it's a good call for this next few months to try and get everything back together He's not going to get everything back together and ultimately the results are going to be the main thing, which the fans are looking at.

16:59But I think behind the scenes, it will make a bit of a difference over the next few months. You know, United fans that are probably worried about he's only managed Middlesbrough, right? How different... Like, for example, you were at Derby Plymouth. How different would it have been for you, do you think, to go into a dressing room where there's standard of... Like, would it be a lot easier for him? I think... I've actually had this discussion with Michael and I think and then I spoke to Liam Neeson last week as well a little bit and I think it's easier going into what you know and Michael Carrick knows playing at the top level so when you're going into the championship and you're you know you're dealing with players who have not played at the top level and it can be a bit more of a challenge but actually going into a football club you know going into a quality of player which you think you hope It becomes easier because then the details you're working on, you can focus on them.

18:00Tactical side rather than... Really focus on that detail you're thinking about rather than thinking, oh, is this player's first touch going to be okay? Or can he pass it to the right foot? So I think it'd be easy and he knows, and I think he will command respect in that dressing room, for sure. I think that's important. Steve Holland shouldn't be underestimated in that. This is a coach who's been working alongside Garrett Southgate and really leading England training from the start of Southgate's regime. What was he like? Because there's a lot of fascination around Steve Holland. I was still in the squad when Garrett came in and Steve was there.

18:32I was really impressed with him tactically, how he worked and his organisation. Steve Holland's done all the training. Garrett didn't really do. He'd been more the manager and Steve took all the sessions. I know with England, he had the better players and sometimes you think it's a little bit easier to get them you know tactically ready and it's only one or two games you need to get them prepared for rarely like the top games but i think what they will bring michael and steve is an organization to match united which and and we'll i'm sure we'll see on saturday they'll be harder to beat they'll be we used to play man city or we used to play arsenal and we'd sit in the low block and let them have possession and let the commanders and then we hit them on the break the amount of goals you see in the score doing that i've no doubts whatsoever on saturday that's how the team's going look and hopefully be hard to beat him and then you're hoping that you can go it'll be better as well because we've got players coming back from afcon and stuff as well so it'll be a little bit better but um seeing seeing talks of gareth southgate really does my head in i mean i like there's this like see i think there's so much disrespect to gareth i'm with wayne on that sorry no but i know i don't know but i think this is going to descend for england no i know but i I think there's so much disrespect.

19:45I think Adam Trill is the same as me. Why? Why is there this? I'm not saying he should be Man United manager, but I'm saying... I don't say this respectfully. Did you say that? I don't want him anywhere near the club. Why? But why? I'm asking you why. I don't support England, so I don't have that in my head. I don't really think about that. And I also think he should have done a lot better with England than he did. I think they probably should have won a tournament right now, which is a little bit harsh because he did obviously improve them and get them quite far. But there's the style of football, his character.

20:18What's wrong with his character? He just doesn't inspire me. I can't imagine him inspiring Man United fans. And then we've also got that image in our head of him under Roy Keane's boot as well, which don't help. I think you're safe in that I don't think Man United will go for him. And I don't think he would go for Man United. He seems very settled. I really don't. I think he's very settled on this leadership path that he's working on and I don't necessarily think it's guaranteed he'll come back into football any time soon. I think there's a lot of disrespect, way too much, put on Gareth Southgate's name.

20:54I think it's poor. It doesn't mean he's right for Manchester United. No problem with that. I don't think for United, but I think nearly won, they lost the Euros on penalties, which can go either way. And what else? What is on you? Two finals? He's done great. And a semi-final. No, I know, So Wayne knows it. Wayne's been part of England's squads that should have won something or everyone thought was going to win something. And getting to finals. We lost our penalty twice. Sorry to bring it up. But getting to finals now, it feels like we're taking it for granted and we're like disrespecting that.

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22:35Achievement?

22:41Before this descends into a Gareth Southgate debate, we've got one half of the table going for him. Before we move on to the players, I just wanted to ask, if you don't want Gareth Southgate, what other names should be in that conversation? Look, I think he's been on the Jurgen Klopp bandwagon for ages. I have a little bit of me that just goes, go throw the bag at Jurgen Klopp and see what he does. Ex-Liverpool manager. Just watch what he does. You'll need round-the-clock security. Imagine how good the game's been to Lidia. There's a Liverpool fan in this room whose jaw has just dropped to the floor.

23:08At the same time, I'd like to see us go after someone like Luis Enrique, Thomas Tuchel. There's two Liverpool fans. Go and get someone of that ilk rather than... But Real Madrid... I think the pressure has to be on Ineos now. You've got Wilcox, Barada, Ratcliffe, who all sat by and they were like, Tenar's our guy now, we're going to stick by him. Spent£200 million with him, extended his contract, then decided to sack him. They bring Amirim in. Your man Ashworth does one. Like, what's going on there? And then they come in and you've got Jason Wilcox, who is apparently responsible for transfers, but didn't, you can correct me if I'm wrong, didn't fancy Amirim at the time because of the back three.

23:49He felt it'd take too much money to change it. And then, but they're also telling us on one side, this is the best-in-class decision-making. We're all on the same page. This is a glorious future. We're all going to be making decisions together. And then you've got someone that doesn't want the manager. and eventually that breaks down. I think it was always inevitable if Wilcox and Amarim didn't get on and didn't see eye to eye that this would happen. You're not answering my question. Who do you want next? Amarim's gone. He said Luis Enrique, I think. I think... Or Xavi, I don't know why. I think...

24:19I think Real Madrid losing their manager as well has thrown a spanner in the works because if you're one of those top managers in the summer and you've got the prospect of working at Real Madrid or Manchester United at that point in time, Given where the clubs are right now, who would you go for? And I'm inclined to say that a lot of top managers will go to Madrid, unfortunately. I'm really intrigued by the timing of Alonso's departure and United bringing their interim solution in now. If a club had known that that was going to happen with Xabi Alonso and Man United are in that position now, would they have gone all out for him while he's on the market?

24:55And before we get to the summer that I mentioned is going to have so much activity, you don't think so? Alonso, no. Back three again as well, isn't it? No, just for it. I agree. I think before Liverpool, I would have loved Klopp, but I don't think he could bring Klopp in. Just imagine how mad it would be. For me. On tribal grounds. No, I just don't think he could. And listen... By the way, I don't think it would ever happen. No, Alondon's done incredible at Leverkusen and I think you've more chance of him sitting and waiting and hoping that Arnie Slott... Or a Man City. Yeah. Well, this is going to rumble on, isn't it?

25:32It's going to be a fun few months. Too sure it's one for me. Yeah, you said that the other day as well. I just think he knows the Premier League. He's won trophies. He's doing well in England. Time will tell. Everywhere he goes, he seems to pick a fight with the board. And we've seen how Wilcox and Barada and stuff, that falls apart again. That's why this six months, I think, is so crucial. And it is hard with international managers being in jobs, but at least you can speak to them. that they need to be mapping this out now and building bonds with the coach or some coaches that they're going to take to the final line.

26:05You've done it with Van Gaal, didn't you? Yeah. Who took the Netherlands to the World Cup and obviously was coming straight into Manchester United. And that was strange because I was obviously a player then and in fairness, none of us had any contact with Van Gaal. But that bond with the sporting director. And it's never perfect anyway. I'm sure there are rows and disagreements behind the scenes. But with Man City, how they had it, Pep Guardiola, Chiqui Bagheera, Steyn, in the earlier days of Michael Edwards and Jurgen Klopp, and now Richard Hughes and Arna Slott, Mikel Arteta and Edu Mikel Arteta and Andrea Berta.

26:45And OK, it hasn't worked so well at Newcastle, but now Eddie Howe's got Ross Wilson in there. We're seeing increasingly that that has to be firm. And it's interesting that it didn't seem so much results at Man United that did for Amerim. It was that breakdown between Amrim and Wilcox. And now's the opportunity to build that connection. And I think the two they took to the line before Ten Hag got his new contract, which is Tuchel and De Zerbe, are going to be very high. I would assume it's not information, but I really want to see De Zerbe tested at the very top level. Pep Guardiola has spoken publicly about him being one of the best coaches around.

27:20Let's see it, given the opportunity somewhere like Manchester United. The likes of Ancelotti will be, they should be spoken to just to gain an understanding of how they would operate within this system. People saying Emery, inclined to say that's less likely because of the amount that he brings with him that he took to Aston Villa. And although I said everyone will want this opportunity, or a lot of people will, Tuchel veered away from it once already. So it's not just who Man Utd want to go and get, it's who wants to tango with them. Let's bring it back to the here and now and what Michael Carrick has to do.