Carrick or Ole? Wayne REVEALS Who Should Take Over at United

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0:30nervous breakdown, Lunatic in the Newsroom is for you. It's news like you've never heard before. The only newsroom with a panic button. You'll laugh, you'll cry, and gasp in horror as the show spirals completely out of control. It's not just news, it's emotionally unstable. Lunatic in the Newsroom. Listen today. Michael is a very clever person and he'll command respect from the dressing room. Wayne, would you join Michael Carrick as part of his coaching staff? Of course I would. I think it's a no-brainer of that situation. The pitch was covered in snow. The captain, Paul Dawson, I get there, he's on a tractor, starting to get snow off the pitch.

1:14Well, a lot can happen in just over a week, can't it? In our last podcast, we were talking about Ruben Amrim's post-match comments. Now, Ruben Amrim is no longer, of course, the manager of Manchester United. Wayne, just another quiet week at your former club. Yes, it was strange. I think it was coming when I think you could see. I was actually trying to hold back a little bit. I could tell. Yeah, last weekend because I didn't want to go too strong, but I felt like I had to give my honest opinion. I think that was coming and obviously with Ruben getting the sack, then obviously Darren Fletcher's gone in for the last two games and probably not what he would have wanted or the club would have wanted in terms of a draw and obviously last night losing to Brighton in the FA Cup.

2:03So, yeah, a difficult moment and I think the next week is probably going to be a huge week for the football club. Okay, how have you found it? Well, he was trying to get himself sacked, wasn't he? I feel like he'd had a couple of meetings that hadn't gone his way and he was doing everything in his power to get rid of it. There was talks apparently that he told Wilcox he's going to speak to his agent and he wanted out. And, you know, I think, look, people, people are going on social media, people are going, oh, yeah, look, it's not the back four or back three. That was a problem. But I mean, Darren Fletcher's not had much time on the training field.

2:41Poor guy's just been flung into it and people are expecting miracles. I think there's a lot of issues top down from the club. I think I'd lost faith in a lot of Amarim's tactics, but I think you could sense that he'd lost faith in it himself. And I think there was times where he was doing things out of stubbornness rather than what was good for the team. I think the players need to take responsibility because that's Reuben Amarim, that's Tanag, that's the managers before that. And at the end of the day, players will sit there, the manager gets sacked and they say, oh, we didn't like that manager and now we get a fresh chance.

3:18These players are not performing and ultimately that ends in the manager getting sacked. I don't think they're down tools though, Wayne. I'm not saying down tool, but then the question is, are they good enough? And that's what I said last week. Are the players good enough to take Manchester United into the Champions League places or to win trophies? But I do think some players can perform a lot better than what they are. Absolutely. Yeah, I think the game against Burnley showed that, you know, I think they had like 30 shots at goal, which was encouraging for United. It felt like a positive step in a new direction.

3:58But yesterday against Brighton, it was like loose balls everywhere. Cunha was terrible. His first touch was all over the place. Like players not being able to do the simple things. And it felt like more of the same. And I almost thought, like, you've got a great chance here in the FA Cup to make this season a success. You yourself as a player should be like, you know what, let's go and show them. And there was nothing. There was no fight. There was no belief. The confidence was short. And it just, it was, I don't know, as a fan watching it, everything felt flat and dejected. I couldn't believe what I was seeing.

4:31It's going to take something miraculous to turn that group of players around and try and be successful this season. because at the minute it's flat and Fletcher is doing everything he can to tie and keep it in place until they appoint someone. But at the minute, we're just hoping we can find some stability. At the time of recording, and I'm saying that because it feels like at any point this could change, we're still waiting, aren't we, for news of who the next Manchester United interim manager, it sounds like that's what they're going to do, doesn't it? Get a manager until the end of the season is going to be.

5:07at this point which is Monday Michael Carrick is the front runner to become that interim manager Wayne he's someone that you know very well he's a friend of yours as well would he be a good fit would someone of that calibre that knows the club be the right man to take them forward in the next few months yeah well I was with him in my baby last week oh so he's going to have a lovely suntan on the top of that yeah so obviously none of us have seen any of this coming and Michael is a very clever clever person and he's done a very good job at Millsborough he'll command respect from the dressing room if that's the case if Michael goes in and yeah I think it'd be a really good fit what we're looking at now you know you're not seeing any top managers available at this moment in time I mean like through history you've been successful and won big trophies so do you go back to Oli or do you go back to Michael that's what it looks like it's going to be one of them two and certainly I know Michael better than I know Oli.

6:09I think Michael would be a really good fit. Okay, Oli and Michael are the two names we mentioned, as Wayne said. As a fan, who would you like to see in there? I mean, either or. For me, I just think this is about salvaging this season. I think Michael Carrick's got a 100 % win record, I think, during his time as an interim last time. So, I think it'll be good. I mean, look, a lot of us look back on Oli Gunnar Solskjaer's I mean, in hindsight, looking at it, probably we played some of the best football we have done since Fergie under Oli, but I think Michael Carrick and Kieran McKenna were instrumental to that anyway, as he's coaching staff.

6:47So it'll be good to see Michael Carrick come in with fresh ideas. But what I want to know is, Wayne, would you join Michael Carrick as part of his coaching staff? We can't lose him from the pod. Of course I would. I think it's a no-brainer if that's the situation but I think what the club needs is people around the place so whether that's if Michael goes in for instance whether that's Fletch or John O'Shea or myself whoever it needs people around the club who know the football club and Roy Keane I think for me I know Roy's had his opinion and I said this early on in the season about Roy Keane going in having people who know the club who care for the club who understand what it takes to be a Manchester United player I think that's where the club needs to be and I spoke about earlier on in the season where the club is it's lost that identity and it's lost that family feel if you like I think this whether it's Oli whether it's Michael is an opportunity to bring that back and whether that's the case we don't know But I think it's a great opportunity to bring the spirit of Manchester United back into the football club.

8:05Is that what the fans want, do you think, Kay? Is that kind of they're just crying out to see something that they associate with Manchester United, the Manchester United DNA again? I think a lot gets made of the Manchester United DNA. I don't think you necessarily need to have played for United to understand what it means to be a Manchester United manager. But I think it does really help. I mean, if you look back at like our two most successful managers in the past, Sir Matt Busby and Sir Alex Ferguson, none of them played for United. I mean, Matt Busby played for Liverpool and Man City. But I think at this stage, I think if you look at a lot of, if you look at Bayern Munich, they've got a great setup in terms of the way they get ex-players to come in and take up a lot of roles in the board and so on and so forth, because it allows a continuity to give people in that club the sense of what it means to play for Bayern Munich and how big it is.

8:59And it allows for a smoother transition. I think over the past 10, well, even more longer years since we lost Fergie, I think there's been a lot of changing. There hasn't been a clear strategy. We've chopped and changed from one manager with a certain style to another manager with a certain style. But I think the fundamentals at Man United and what the fans really want to see is attacking football and people with a winning mentality. I think there's been players that have come to United and even if they haven't looked like they're going to score or whatever, but just trying. You want to see a tackle of football, but you want to see work rate and desire and hunger.

9:40And if you go back to all the United teams, United from the early 90s, say which, it's probably more relevant. You look at David Beckham, for instance. unbelievable quality but worked harder than anyone else on the pitch Ryan Giggs worked harder than anyone else on the pitch and that hunger but they have the ability alongside it but they have that willingness to run and fight and drive and you make mistakes you lose games that happens but if you work more often than not you get the benefits from that and I think we're not seeing players sprinting as hard as they can or running as hard as they can and that's affecting the results.

10:23Wayne, this is all obviously very hypothetical when Kay asked you, would you go in there? And I know there's a queue of ex-Manchester United players that are in the media, probably ones that aren't even in the media as well that would want to go in there. But if you were to go in there, what would be, or if Michael was to go in there, what would be the first things that would need addressing? Work rate. Is it that simple? I know that sounds simple, but work rate and running and hunger and fight and I watched it was really interesting I watched Chelsea didn't I Liam Senior's first game and I've seen Chelsea players running harder than I've seen them running all season I know it made a lot of changes but you get your rewards and then your players with the ability and your match winners and players who can dictate the game will be able to do that so much easier if you have a work rate and we're not seeing players do that and it's sad this is maybe going to sound a bit silly but how do you get that work rate like what do you do because it sounds so simple to me that players when I watch a team I would expect the team I support to have have a work rate how do you get that out of them if they're not doing it at the moment I think there's no consequences for a lot of these players you got somebody like Diego Dallo he's I think he's what I don't I think I'm so surprised at how he's managed to stay at a club as long as he has um because time and time again he makes mistakes and there's no consequences for action like what I don't feel like if a player doesn't run or if a player doesn't track back or if a player doesn't give me so I don't think there are any repercussions for that at the moment yeah and that's difficult because you don't have to just the squad the players you'd like to change it but then Manchester United traditionally is a club who has developed and brought academy players through so while it's actually in this transition give them throw them in if the if the players I can run, you throw them in, you give them an opportunity.

12:14I'm not saying the players, I've done it all the time, but there's certain players who you see who are cutting corners and that's costing the team. Well, the most damning thing for me was, it felt like the tactics at one point was pass the ball to Shear Lacey and see what he can do. And Shear Lacey's absolutely amazing, but he's a kid. I felt for him against Brighton. I was watching that game with Phil Jones for Match of the Day and he, gosh, I felt for him on a side note. But he was showing the passion and desire and the willingness to get forward. And of course, look, he got a red card and I don't agree with the booking.

12:50I thought it was silly, but it was somebody that wore his heart on a sleeve and he understood what it was to play for this team. And he was going over there, making runs. He was beating players, hitting a ball. And his cameo against Burnley as well was fantastic. There's things over the last two games, which I think as fans, you can take and look and think that's a real positive. I think Fletcher has really got so much more out of Sesko in what we're seeing. Shea Lacey's coming in, he's doing well. So there's some positives and it's going to take time. Whoever goes in, it's Michael Carrick, Oli Gunnar Solskjaer.

13:28Whoever goes in, it's going to be a very difficult job to get a connection, get all this group of players together to be successful. so it is going to be really difficult but we're seeing positive moments as I said with Cesc Owe and young Shea Lacey coming in hopefully Kobe Mainu gets a run of games and shows us what a player he can be so there's a few positives even though in the last two games it feels like it's really down Well I think the positives came from putting the players in the positions that they actually want to play in like Patrick Dorgal played in his preferred position for the first time since he's come to the club and I think a lot's been made of systems and whatever but Fletch played a back four and put players where they're meant to be playing for their profiles and it showed positive signs against a match at Burnley certainly but yeah yesterday was just was just ridiculous.

14:25Kate how important do you think this appointment is for the Manchester United board they've obviously had a few appointments to make over the recent years and but I know that this is only an interim role but it feels like an especially important one in terms of building the foundations for next season because whatever the manager that takes over in the summer be it the interim carries on or whatever they need to be left a club that's potentially in Europe don't they well yeah I mean I think the the Ineos's track record has been embarrassing let's get it straight like coming in they came to this club saying oh yeah the footballing people and the adults are back in the room and we're going to turn this club around.

15:00They dithered with Ten Hag. They were shopping around a job to everybody in Europe, to whoever wanted it. And then in the end, they felt embarrassed and gave Ten Hag a new contract only to go and sack him later. They brought in Amirim in the middle of a season when they knew that they didn't have the players to play the system that he wanted and told him it's now or never. They sacked Dan Ashworth three months after he came, after paying so much money in order to bring him to the club. And he didn't want Amorim there anyway. It's just been embarrassment after embarrassment. And now the guy that you did bring in, you've sacked him.

15:37So all eyes are on Wilcox and Barada and Sir Jim Radcliffe to make a great appointment this time around. Because at the moment, their track record is absolutely disastrous. This isn't how a top club should be run. There needs to be decisive measures taking place and if you're going to make a decision, stick to it. But yeah, right now it doesn't look promising for them a lot. And I think they are biding their time and I think that is the correct thing to do because I think the manager market opens up after the World Cup. You have potentially people like Narl Gelsmann, Thomas Tuchel, Carlo Ancelotti even.

16:16But yeah, it's embarrassing and they need to do something drastic to get this right. It does feel like the club just needs stabilising over the next few months, Wayne, which is maybe why the names that are being mentioned are being mentioned, I guess, because that's what the club so desperately craves. From listening to you, that's what you want, just a bit of normality and success. Oli would have done a good job when he was at United, so if it is Oli, I've no doubt he'll bring that back in, and Michael, no doubt in his ability, so it looks like it's one of them too. and I'd be surprised if Oli takes it on an interim basis.

16:52Do you think he wants a permanent job? I'd imagine so if that's where he's been before. Michael, I know, loves the football club and would step in to do a job for the club if he can. But then it's an opportunity if that's the case for Michael to go and show what he can do over the next few months and make the owners look at him and say, you know what, we don't need to look elsewhere. So it's an opportunity for one of them too. I'd imagine if it looks like there's one of them too, to go and ollie not so much to prove himself, but for Michael to go and prove himself and add on to the four games he's already had and show that he's capable of doing that job.

17:28Okay, the criticism or people, critics of this would say that both Carrick and Solskjaer, despite their history with Manchester United, probably don't have the history in terms of where they've coached before to be Manchester United manager. But do you think all of this conversation shows exactly why those two names are the only names really being mentioned at the moment because Manchester United need something different at the moment. Well, I just think, who are you going to get in for six months? You're not going to get like a Carlo Ancelotti in for six months, are you? You're not going to get one of the top managers in the world to come in.

17:59And I don't necessarily think that it's a bad thing that you're getting people that have been at the club before to come in. I think we forget that Ruben Amarum was 41. Yeah. I know he worked in Portugal, he was 41, he was very young. You look at the Brighton manager, you look at obviously Liam Rossini now going in at Chelsea. And Mureska at Chelsea, he'd manage once at Leicester before he gets the Chelsea job, but because he's foreign, we don't look at that. I know Oli is a foreign manager, but I think personally, Michael Carrick who knows the club would be a great fit because we're getting more English young English coaches it's great isn't it no but just I think that Man United he knows that club inside out he lives and breeds that club it's the same Michael Carrick's son is in the same team as my son the youth team there every week obviously when he's not when he's not coaching at Middlesbrough knows the club inside out and that's what the club needs Man City at home and Arsenal where the next two games nice easy start for whoever goes in.

19:08Give it a week.

19:12Can't as well, Oli, give it a week. Sorry, Fletch. I mean, yeah, I mean, talk about being put into the deep end. Look, I think if it is Michael Carrick that comes in, I think it will be great for the club. But again, I think a lot has been said about managers and stuff as well. I think, like we mentioned, the players and the board need to take a look at themselves as well. And I hope that Michael Carrick is given all the backing that he needs and he gets all the staff that he wants and needs to give him the best possible tools at his disposal to get something out of these players. Because like Wayne said, he's a great guy.

19:54And plus, his management style is good as well. I mean, his Middlesbrough team used to play with the sort of principles that Michael Carrick had as a player. They were strong in midfield and they used to play from midfield forward. And yeah, I just hope that he gets the backing that he needs because that's the most important thing. I was going to ask you who your next choice for permanent manager would be, but it feels like we almost need to pause that thought a bit at the moment, Wayne, and just see how whoever takes over does for the next few months and let Manchester United take stock and then reassess.

20:26Yeah, I think long term, you hope Thomas Sushal goes and wins the World Cup for England and then I think he'd be one you'd certainly want to try and bring in. Surely we'd want to keep him at England if that happens. No, if he wins the World Cup, then go out of there. He'd be the one you'd look at, but for whoever goes in now, it's an opportunity for them to go and... I think it happened with Oli last time where he went into his interim and he'd done well and he gets the job permanently. So whoever goes in now, it's an opportunity to show the worth. if not I think there will be good managers coming up I think Tuchel will be the probably outstanding candidate I don't think there's like massively good names out there to be honest with you I can only think of three and I doubt Carlo Ancelotti is going to take it but I think Nagelsmann and Tuchel are probably like the top managers that you can think of but I think it can also be the opportunity for like Wayne said to get a good English manager in there as well I think when you look around Europe and you look around the world there's there's not a lot a lot of those older managers are sort of going on going out whereas um there could be an opportunity to get a young manager in and and see what they can do Carrick manager Rooney assistant okay that's what you want imagine if that happened okay remember what Kay was like in your house Wayne he'd be rocking up at Carrington all the time well look selfishly I think I think I want his podcast to keep going yeah Michael I don't think you should have Wayne forget that but no I think look Wayne going into the club I mean I think it'd be absolutely amazing I mean looking at somebody like Cesko for example as well to learn from Wayne how to get into certain positions how to score certain other players as well those attacking players like Mbumo I mean who better than Wayne really just so you know I'm not begging a job here by the way I know you're not but I'm just saying So everyone knows that.

22:25If I was asked to go in, of course. But I think the appointment of the manager is the most important thing. No, 100%. But I'm just saying as a coach, it'd be great to see some of those attacking players learning from you. I think who better to learn from? On that note, actually, Wayne, I watched the game yesterday with Phil Jones and Danny Welbeck did like a little shift where he shifted the ball backwards and forwards and he went, that was a classic Wazza move. Always did that. and I could never stop him. And it was quite interesting. We rolled back the years. Well, Phil Jones did stop me and he gave me a big scar on my head.

23:00Oh, I'll mention that next time. A little bit of plastic says he on my head because of me.

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24:20Wayne, the other huge story of the weekend, of course, came from a Rooney, but actually it wasn't you creating the headlines this weekend. What's it been like being upstaged by your younger brother? Do you know what? It's one of the proudest moments I've had in football because when the draw was made, I was desperate for BBC to take the game. and then to be there working and watching that and actually sat right behind John and so watching him at work and how he composed himself, how calm he was, was incredible. And then for Maxfield to win was, I don't think anyone could believe it and such a proud moment.

25:02And yeah, I did, I got a little bit emotional. The voice went a little bit, didn't it? Yeah, I did. No, just watching him because we were right behind. The dugout right behind John and Franny and watching the reactions when they won the crowd all run on. Special moment. Yeah, special indeed. Incredible and even more incredible. I was going to introduce him as Macclesfield boss, but let's just say your brother, John Mooney, is joining us on the podcast now. John, thank you for joining us. Wow. What have the last 48 hours been like for you? They've been crazy. It's been a bit surreal, to be fair, because I've probably never really been around this much media and stuff like that, even in my football, when I've played myself.

25:47But, you know, especially with me only being in the job a couple of months as well, to go on that run in the FA Cup and go and beat a Premier League team, not just Premier League team, that was the current holders, was, you know, something special. It's something, isn't it, Kay, as football fans, that as neutrals, you watch it and everyone's rooting for the underdog. And it was amazing, wasn't it? And with us knowing that it was Wayne's brother as well. And I was desperate to hear Wayne's reaction because Wayne said before that he can be emotional. And we heard it live on TV. Yeah, I mean, look, it's amazing as well for the people of Macclesfield, obviously, what's happened with the club there and seeing what happened.

26:22And talk about getting job security. If that doesn't give you job security for another couple of years, John, I don't know what will. It was absolutely amazing to see the reaction afterwards as well. And I think the belief from the players that you instilled within them. I mean, I've seen your captain come out and say that as soon as he saw Mark Gay, he said he didn't fancy the pitch, he knew he had a chance to get into them. Did you feel that before you were going on? I knew the pitch would be an advantage for us, you know, we're used to it, our home pitch. But you always dream and you think best case scenarios.

26:55But did they think we'd win? I'd probably say no, if I'm going to be totally honest. You know, in my lifetime, I've never seen an upset like that. but once we went 1-0 up I was dying just to get to half time I was just like can we get them in at half time and just but even at half time they come in and he was all relaxed to be fair the lads they come in they was a few of them bouncing around like they was did you see this did you see this I just had to calm that down a little bit but no it was just more of the same second half because I don't think it was a snatch and grab game I thought we were the fully deserved winners on the day which if you told me that before the game I wouldn't have believed you but you know the lads were outstanding and obviously spoke with Wayne after the game and obviously he said about everyone but the performance the captain put in as well but he set the tone from minute one when he went up for that header and cut his head I think he does set the tone for the game and you know I think some of them after that didn't really want to know.

27:52I just want to provide some context to this one as well because you're Wayne's younger brother aren't you is that right how old are you John? 35. You're only at the start of your managerial career, aren't you? Tell us how long you've been doing it and kind of your journey to this point. Do you know what? I was going back two days before pre-season so I was in the gym going back to get fit and be ready to go back in pre-season and then got the phone call off Sav that he'd went to Forest Green and once I knew that I rang Rob, the owner and told him I'd want to take over. I'd already had little chats with him in the past over the event and did happen with Sav that I'd want to be doing.

28:30and it happened really quick so it was literally I had a chat with him then I think he was worried about losing me as a player as well because I told him if I did do it I didn't want to play because I didn't think it worked but it just happened really quick but to be fair I probably preferred it like that because I was just straight in on the Monday right to work so no it was hard probably the first couple of days with the lads because I was sharing the changing room with them last year as a team mate but listen I couldn't speak highly of them to do what I've done with this group of lads means more because I played with them last year as well and I know what they're all about.