Ekitike's Red Card, Bogey Grounds & Spitting Fans

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1:07Kae Kurd:That's O-D-O-O dot com. I could have got to him. I probably would have done something stupid and reacted to it because it's such a disgusting thing to do. My dad was, that was the game he wouldn't go to. He wouldn't go to it because obviously he knew I'd be getting a lot of stick. They brought him in on the stretcher and I was stood inside the tunnel bit there he is he's got up and that's for the picture what i was thinking you just nearly

1:38so okay are we renaming you as tech support rather than co-host on this pod now absolutely

1:43Kae Kurd:yeah i mean you can hire me for anything uh i don't have a linkedin but i'm gonna set one up after after the end of this podcast yeah let's address the elephant in the room we were meant to start a while ago wayne you've had a nightmare with tech issues haven't you i feel sorry for you but commitment to the pod you've got here? I don't know what was happening, the mic, the camera, the lights, everything. It's not my strong point anyway, so I've got it on. It's none of our strong point, I think. Thank goodness for the team around us. How's your week been? It looks like you're still away from home.

2:12Yeah, I had a nice few days in Scotland with Colleen. It's been nice. And Kay, you've got a lot of travel. You were impressed, actually, because today I knew where your tour was tonight. Yeah, yeah. I do my homework hard.

2:24Kae Kurd:I was like, you've got my flyer up in your room or something. No, I'm in Cardiff and Bristol and Southampton and Reading this week. So, yeah, a bit of clocking up the miles. OK, let's start our football chat then by talking about the Carabao Cup action that's happened this week. And one of the big talking points, I think, has been the red cards. Well, particularly the second yellow for Hugo Eketike in Liverpool's narrow win over Southampton. Wayne, what did you make of it? You have the emotion of football and scoring goals, and sometimes when you score a goal, you do get carried away. And he's probably forgotten he was on a yellow card, I'd imagine.

3:00But it's silly if you're on a yellow card and you take your top off. All the players know that you get booked for taking your top off. So, yeah, it's a silly one, I think. And I'm sure Arnie's not. Because is he going to miss the next round? He misses Palace on Saturday. So he's doing really well. and it's probably a shootout for him and he's active to play and he's given Nysak a chance to come in and try and take his place at the minute because at the minute he's scoring goals and he's in a good place so yeah, I'm sure he'll be devastated. Did you ever forget you were on a yellow card and get sent off?

3:36I've been sent off some silly things. There was one at Fulham away where I threw the ball at the referee and got a second yellow. I remember that. Villarreal away. I fouled the lad and it was a foul that was in the referee gave me a yellow card and then I clapped on his face and I got my second yellow card straight away What did the manager say after that? Yeah just silly and to be honest if you get sent off going in for a tackle which you think you can win and maybe mistime it or sometimes I remember Oli Gunnar Solskjaer for United where he stopped the goal and he knew he was going to get a red card if you get a red card for something worth it then you can take that but when you get silly ones it does play in your minds and for everyone I'm disappointed or the player's disappointed and no doubt the manager is as well.

4:26Kae Kurd:Did you mean to throw out a ref? No, I did. It was just an anger moment but I missed him and Johnny Evans was right behind him and Johnny caught it. So I was trying to say to him I turned it to Johnny but... He wasn't having any of it? Yeah, no, so I got to second year, yeah. What was the manager's reaction to that? Yeah, he's just disappointed and again I said, you know, you're coming out of the team for the next game and I went in and Paul Scholder had already been turned off so me and him Scholder were sat in the desk and all the players walking and it's never nice when you're sat in there and the game's going on and then everyone walks in and you feel like you've left people down so yeah, it's never a nice feeling and the manager's just like, you're silly, never really had a goal really for getting turned off.

5:12I always remember Mourinho, actually, Mourinho saying if you need to take a yellow card, take it. And, you know, if we can't waste a bit of time, waste time when we need to and stuff. But then the problem you add is you get a yellow card and then the club fine you. So you're trying to say, well, listen, we're getting asked and told here by the coaches.

5:33Kae Kurd:Is that a blanket fine? As in, so like if you get like five yellows in a season or is it every booking you get a fine? No, I think if you get bookings for dissenting and time-wasting and stuff like that, but if it's just for the genuine attempt to win the ball, you don't. And then red card, you'd obviously get a fine. I don't know if you saw Arna Slott's comments, Wayne, about it. He said he was quite hard on Eketike. He said it's stupid even if you haven't had a yellow card. He said, like, maybe I'm old. I think the phrase was, maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I did score goals. And if I went past three players and put it in the top corner, maybe.

6:05He said, but basically it was just a tap-in is what he's saying. And obviously now he's crossed the team. he's cost himself in that battle with Isak. As a manager, did you ever have an incident like that where a player got sent off and you were just like, what have you done that for? The only one really was Callum Wright at Plymouth. I can't remember who he was playing. He was on the yellow cards and I could see him a few minutes before that and you could see he was getting worked up and he was chasing a little bit. Then I actually was trying to get someone ready to take him off the pitch. in that time he's gone and smashed someone he actually got a straight red instead of a second yellow so yeah and I spoke to him I've obviously said in front of the players he's let everyone down and then I spoke to him individually and had a conversation with him but yeah and sometimes as a manager as well you go out and you do your press conferences and do all your media duties and I've said things I said players just weren't good enough and then I've gone back and watched the game and they actually played better than what you thought so I went and apologised to the players for saying that.

7:12Is that quite important for a manager, do you think, to be able to apologise and admit when they're wrong? Yeah, because if you don't then the players, if they believe they've played well and they have played well, then they maybe believe, and I apologise in the press as well, in the next press conference, I told the press that I'd apologised to the players and addressed it that way, so players aren't stupid and if you do it and they think they've played well and they might think that you're putting it on them trying to protect yourself. So, yeah, I apologise to the players then I said to the media when I did the next press conference.

7:49Do you think it's good man management by Slott to come out and speak like that? I felt like he was just saying what everyone else felt but just happened to be the manager saying it. Yeah, no, what I've found with Dutch managers, I've worked with a few, Louis van Gaal, Philip Coccu, Ronald Koeman and they're all very honest and straight with you when they talk to you. And I think what he said to the press is exactly what Willis said to the player. There's no hiding behind that. And I think that's good for a player as well because you know exactly where you stand. There's no in-between. How frustrated would you be as a fan watching that, Kay?

8:25Because I think Liverpool fans have been excited by Isak, but there'd been such good competition between the two of them. And now Eketiko's almost handed Isak the upper hand, hasn't he?

8:34Kae Kurd:We had it last season where Ahmad scored the last minute winner and then took his shirt off and got sent straight off as well after that. But in that respect, I understood it was against Liverpool. It's a massive goal. And, you know, there's a lot riding around that game when it's Manchester United versus Liverpool. But I think against Southampton in the very early stages of the League Cup, it's not the wisest thing to do. Do you not think that's refreshing? We've criticised teams for not playing strong teams and not wanting to really compete in the League Cup. And you've got a player who's playing really well.

9:14He's just come into Liverpool. He's playing really well, scoring goals. And he's showing that passion and emotion of scoring a late goal in the League Cup. I think that's quite refreshing, really, from where the Cupgate competitions have been in recent years.

9:27Kae Kurd:Yeah, I just think if you're on a yellow, though. Yeah, no, I get that. and also it's not a new rule that's come in is it I'm not defending it because it is silly but in what we've seen over recent years with VAR and players scoring goals and waiting to celebrate and stuff I think it's actually refreshing to see someone celebrating a goal and he's been caught up in the emotion of scoring scoring a goal and he'll probably regret it now but I still think it's nice when you see that raw emotion when someone scores a goal No absolutely I understand I understand that bit but yeah I think the rule's silly anyway so look I think players should be able to celebrate how they want.

10:04Kae Kurd:I think when you start policing how they celebrate and what they do, it's a bit annoying. But for Liverpool, I think for Eketike, he had a chance to cement that place as his own and try and keep Isaac out of the team. But like you say, I think now it gives Isaac a clear run at it for a while. I had the one at West Ham. I didn't get sent off, but I got banned after the game for it where I'd scored a hat-trick. And after my third goal, it was to make it 3-2 and the camera was right in my face. and I've swore down and I've got a two-game ban. I think you're unlucky with that because I've seen players in a modern day age do even worse and they've had nothing.

10:40I thought it was a horrendous decision. Obviously. Yeah, obviously. OK, let's move on then and talk about the other games this weekend in the Premier League. As we mentioned, Palace Liverpool's won. But there's a couple of interesting ones. Sorry to say this, guys. Man United go to Brentford. You've not actually won there in three seasons. And twice you've conceded four goals. Arsenal also go to Newcastle Kay wants to move on already where they've lost on three of their last four visits Wayne as a player does that kind of thing play on your mind ahead of a game? Yeah it definitely does I think because you have stadiums where you go to where you really like going to and you normally score so you go into the game feeling really positive and confident.

11:23I used to have Aston Villa, Arsenal and Newcastle were probably the three I used to really like going to and score goals but then on the flip side you do have places I remember going to Chelsea when I started with Everton I missed a penalty there when I was 17 and then with Man United Mourinho was in and it just felt like this is going to be so tough to get chances and score against them so I just didn't like going there at all so you do have ground you look forward to going to playing and I'm wondering, let's just hang it through. It's kind of the same as a fan. When you're watching your team, you know, don't you?

12:02You started rolling your eyes as soon as I said that because you knew what I was saying. You knew what United's record at Brentford had been like.

12:08Kae Kurd:Do you know what doesn't even bode well? We're wearing our new away kit at an early kick-off at Brentford and the last time we did that, they put four past us. So it's not a good omen. It's not a good omen for us. It's a tough place to go anyway. I think sometimes the change of managers is a big thing as well. I think I felt when Mourinho left Chelsea that it started to become a little bit easier for us to play against him so and then with Mourinho you look at his home record he had before he was at Chelsea he was always he was always difficult to beat so and then so I think with Thomas Frank leaving in Brentford it's different I said it last year Is that a psychological aspect of it?

12:51Kae Kurd:So when Mourinho went you were like there's no more aura or whatever it is around the place Yeah definitely and I think with Thomas Frank not being there I think Brentford are a little bit different this season they've lost some some of the bigger players so yeah I think United coming off the win against Chelsea should be going there confident so I'm fully expecting Man United to go there and get three points Do you think then that Ruben Amarin will even mention it or will it be used this week as motivation for the players or as you said it's so different at Brentford now it's kind of irrelevant You have games where you remember things and you know I'm not sure what happened against Brentford last season but the team will be beating you by three or four goals and the fans start all laying and stuff like that.

13:31It sticks in your mind because it's not nice and your own personal pride comes into it as well. So you do go back thinking you want to show them. So yeah, I think definitely the United players for sure anyway will be feeling they need to get them.

13:47Kae Kurd:How do you reckon Mbumo's going to do going back to his old club? He looks like, I don't know, but he looks like the type of character who would be fine with it. I think he's been a real positive for Man United this season. I think his energy, his running off the ball, his commitment, he's scored a couple of goals, he could have had more. So I've been really happy. I think he's been, out of all the signs, the most positive one. And he looks like someone who will just take it in stride. So, yeah, I think he'll be OK. It's not always easy when you go back. The fans enjoying him so far, Kay? Yeah, I think he's been a real bright spark.

14:24Kae Kurd:I've been really impressed with him. He's getting into the right positions. He's doing the right sort of things. And all you ask for as a fan is somebody that tries their best and gives it their all. That's why, especially at United, fans fall in love with players. When we can see that you're trying to do everything you can to help the team win, then we fall in love with you. But I was going to ask, Wayne, what was it like the first time when you went back to Everton when you were at United? Yeah, it was horrible. just going out obviously it's a ground I've been going to since I was a kid a baby and then to go back and walking into the stadium I think I actually went to walk in the home dressing room that was my next question I went to walk in and then obviously went in the away dressing room and just warming up on the other side of the pitch and it was mad yeah the actual the sponsors who sponsored the game that day had a go at me because the fans in the warm-up were going at me so I'd come off the pitch one side to the other side just juggling the ball and there was sponsors who'd go out on the pitch just before you finish the warm-up and the Everton sponsors and one of them was having a go at me there so yeah it was it weren't nice, I didn't enjoy it.

15:38Did you change your preparations for games at Everton? No, I didn't change my preparation but it was it was hard knowing And, you know, me dad, me uncles, me cousins are going to be in the stands in the Everton crowd. Actually, sorry, me dad was, that was the game he wouldn't go to. He wouldn't go to. Because, obviously, he knew I'd be getting a lot of stick and he'd go to the early Everton games and he wouldn't go to that one at Goodison. So we'd leave that ball. Like, my cousins and uncles and that. Well, remember the FA Cup semi-final? There was two where Alex Ferguson and actually left me out of the squad FA Cup semi-final.

16:18The rest of us, there was a few of us. We had Champions League, big game mid-week. It was me, Michael Carrick. He played a lot of young players, which I thought was crazy. And we lost on penalties. And then under Van Gaal, we played Everton in the semi-final. And we scored a 90th minute winner, Andy Marshall. And everyone celebrated. I stayed back. I didn't celebrate. I was obviously delighted we got the final. but I just knew I had family in the crowd and would be really upset because obviously I wanted everything to get to the final. So, yeah, I matured a little bit then. Earlier on, I was celebrating stuff, but when you get a bit older, you start thinking a bit more.

16:59Were you angry when you were left out? Yeah, I was fuming. Did you tell the manager? Yeah, of course. FA Cup's final. At that time, I'd never won the FA Cup. and then we lose on penalties. Yeah, it was absolutely few. There was the League Cup final as well against Aston Villa. Left me on the bench. Again, it was when we were going deep into the Champions League games and he obviously wanted to win that more than the League Cup. So he rested us. I come on actually in the first half in the League Cup and scored the winner. Come on for Mike Lowen, who got injured. But yeah, them games, that's what you play football for,

17:40Kae Kurd:not to be sat out and rested. Did you prioritise certain games more than others? If it was a Champions League game, would you rather play that over a League Cup game? I wanted to play every game.

17:52I always think if you start the games and you can try and get two or three up, you can come off and rest the last 20 minutes or whatever. I wanted to play every game. Obviously, there were certain players who were maybe a little bit older and it would catch up with them a bit more. But yeah, certainly I wanted to play every game. and the manager knew that and he knew as well if I was coming back from an injury or in pre-season I used to want to play every game in pre-season so yeah it's difficult when you've got a player because the manager does have to try and manage that because it's not easy but yeah I wanted everyone Wayne, bringing it back round to like bogey grounds if you're going to call them that you've mentioned Chelsea already were there any other grounds that you didn't like playing at?

18:37Yeah, I hated Anfield Oh, yeah, we've mentioned that a few times. Yeah, I just need to go in there. Any others? Not really. Stoke was always nasty. Blackpool used to go to Stoke and it was always freezing and windy and throwing long balls into the box. The fans were horrible. Blackpool, someone spat in my face. When I come off and sat on the bench, someone spat in my face, one of the Blackpool fans. Yeah, when that happened, what was your reaction? It's not nice when someone spits in your face. But yeah, no, I was fuming. I think if he was a bit closer than I could have got to him, I probably would have went and done something stupid and reacted to it because I think that's such a disgusting thing to do.

19:29You've seen players doing it. I think it was Suarez maybe a couple of weeks ago in the States doing it. I think it's such a disgusting thing to do. It's so weird, isn't it? What goes through your head? To spit on someone is not nice at all. So, yeah, I weren't happy, that's for sure. Is that the worst thing a fan ever did to you? Yeah, I'd say so. Doesn't get much worse than that. I had a few songs sung about me as well at times. Yeah, I actually liked the Streck one. I thought that was good.

19:58Kae Kurd:When it's a bit tongue-in-cheek and a player plays along with it, I think the fans appreciate that as well. I remember when I saw James Madison, and they were chanting against him and then he sort of clapped the fans and everyone laughed along with him. But then I always think that the fans know that the players have got in his head a little bit or at least he's thinking about it. Do you know what I mean? I always think it's better when the players ignore it. It depends what it is. I've seen the Madsen one when he was hitting the corner and he put it outside the corner flag on purpose. outside the little area on purpose and he was wiring the fans up.

20:36But yeah, I think stuff like that is no harm. But I think when it goes really personal and you're hearing singing about someone's mother or the wife or children, whatever, I think that goes too far then. But yeah, as players, we have to try and just be professional and try and blank it out. I also get the feeling when, if you went to a ground and they really sang at you you probably thrived on it and it just riled you up even more to play better yeah you you get on with it and if you win then you can walk off with a smirk on your face whatever and then so yeah you just got to try and you know get through it and you know and our fans whoever whether about Everton or United or whatever they sing to opposition players as well so it's all fans do it every group of set of fans does it sometimes it oversteps the mark and then you just hope then the right action is taken

21:40Kae Kurd:Wayne what is it about away games that make it a bit harder is it just your routine's been changed or is it the fact that you're going to somewhere that This is summer at its peak Whole Foods Market Summer Fruit Fest is your invitation to eat the season Fresh, organic, and bursting with flavor. Start your day with peaches and organic blueberries and yogurt. Build a grazing board with fresh fruit, prosciutto, and artisanal cheese. Then fire up the grill with no antibiotics ever proteins and fresh produce. Savor the season. Shop Summer Fruit Fest at Whole Foods Market. Chicago talks a lot. Hold on, let me step over here.

22:20Kae Kurd:People are talking too much. We debate about food, deep dish, tavern style, who's got the best beef. We yell across rooms, across blocks, across generations. Yes, nice earrings, Grammy. And now we're doing it on our phones, too. Video calls from the L train, group chats that never shut up. Neighbors texting you the score before your TV catches up. Come on! Get a load of this guy. Catch up on a dog. Yeah, we've got thoughts. Too loud? In Chicago, you're gonna hear it. Because nothing here gets built without conversation. Nothing moves without connection. So if you think you know AT &T, it might be time to rethink that because their network has improved like a lot.

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