England's Best Since 1966 - Tuchel's Biggest Statement Yet?

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0:30Whole Foods Market. Make your summer sizzle. Throughout this World Cup, David Beckham has been everywhere. In the stands, in commercials, during ad breaks, sorry, hydration breaks. Which is wild when you consider he was once the most hated man in Britain. I turned around to a fan and he was screaming about my wife and about Brooklyn right to my face. I wouldn't even look away. How do you go from that to being a billionaire? That's next time on Big Lives. Listen to Big Lives wherever you get your podcasts I said Drew Bellingham's going to have a game where we're going to need him And I felt that was that game You look at Steven Gerrard against Stacey Milan Roy Keane against Juventus from Manchester United They dragged the teams through them games And I felt like that was Bellingham's one I think Thomas Tuchel has had probably the best training you could have Before this England job in terms of the PSG job You know, he had Messi, he had Neymar, he had Mbappe he had these superstars who expect to play every week and he will have learnt a lot from that I guess between now and Norway for you it's their own machine is it?

1:34Yeah I've just obviously waited to see what we can organise I will do it whether that's in New York or whether that's standing with the Mersey I will do it I've made my word so we're just trying to get the right hand and never never make a bold prediction again Hello it's the Wayne Rooney show Mike Miney with you today of course with the man himself Wayne Rooney as we look back at England's big win over Mexico we'll take a little bit of a deep dive into how Thomas Tuchel works as well and how he's perhaps getting the best out of England but the first question of course has to be sleep count Wayne.

2:09Yeah not great didn't get many hours last night I think got to sleep about six and then I was up about just before 10 at the dentist over in Liverpool I had to go to and then straight back so I've just actually been having a sleep in my dressing room for about 40 minutes and then he just kindly woke me up so did you row yourself to Liverpool or no um we're looking we're looking at different options actually because yeah I didn't think I actually predicted Norway do well before the tournament and even being honest I thought Brazil would have beat them so stupidly him made the statement that I rode down the Mersey.

2:48So just because of the time situation, it will be quite difficult. So we're actually looking to do something on the Hudson River while we're over in the States next week. Good luck. That's all I'll say. Also joining us for the first part of the Wayne Rooney show is former England manager, Sam Allardyce. Sam, how are you? Good afternoon. Hi, Sam. How was your sleep? well I watched all the debate after the game because there was a lot to talk about a lot to be discussed good and bad I think so obviously the big positive was not just England getting through but I thought the performance was the best and under huge circumstances and difficulties with the crowd, some of the refereeing decisions I thought they handled it extremely well and probably the best performance by the entire team in this World Cup.

3:48Best performance so far in the World Cup. I think we all agree on that. But in terms of when you say it's one of the best performances, how, because I've seen loads of things about the level of performance, what the result means. And of course, Mexico had an incredible record at the Azteca. Two defeats in 89. Obviously, England have gone and made that three, but it is a tricky place to go. Where does it rank as an England legendary performance? Obviously, you've got 66 but I mean Germany won England 5 when you've got the Netherlands in the semi-finals of Euro 24 the Denmark semi-final etc where does that rank well for me I think it's the best World Cup performance since 66 I think just everything because I think if we're honest England haven't been at the best this World Cup performance wise and just as just Sam said there with everything going into that game with the altitude, with the conditions.

4:47Firstly, with the right-back situation, I think, hasn't been right the whole tournament, partly because of the players. I think he's picked the players he's left out, which we can all debate whether that's right or wrong. But it was a heroic performance. It weren't the best in terms of performance and football-wise, but just in terms of going down to 10 men and digging in I thought Thomas Seussle's change is really good and just you know the overall game and victory was the best I can remember certainly Sam what would you say in terms of best world I mean I mentioned Euros games there as well but if you want to take the World Cup in terms of best since 66 I'm surprised Wayne said it's one of the best and I would have thought he'd have come up with his best team performance while you were playing for England because there was many, I thought.

5:44But I think certainly in terms of what they had to come across and what they had to come up against, like you said at the beginning, altitude, humidity, heat. I think that they overcame that. And the hostility of the stadium, the play-acting, the play-acting by the players. I mean, you know, I find it incredibly disappointing that, you know, they roll over, squeal and cry at the least or slightest touch that they get and the referee does nothing about it, does nothing with it. Band out a few yellow cards and stop this play acting and stop this cheating in terms of trying to get a penalty or a foul or somebody sent off when there's barely a touch.

6:30I mean, we saw, I mean, everybody at your end thought it was definitely a booking, but, you know, So Declan Rice getting booked in the first 30 seconds, what could he do? He had to go for the ball. As an England performance, yes, definitely one of the best under all the circumstances that they faced, going down to 10 men. And for me, the players that stepped up, that showed they really deserved their place in the England team. I think the delay as well, Sam, which obviously the delay to the game, which I think we were expecting and then obviously we were trying to get prepared for the game and we knew there was a possibility we'd have delay so you're trying even for us doing the TV trying to prepare for that so for the players and the staff that must have been really difficult but in terms of referees I think for me it's going more and more you've got referees with the names on the back of the top I'm like what is going on here and so it's getting more and more about the referees and what the referees want.

7:36We're hearing, you know, referees wanting this brought in and this rule brought in here. And it's just to give them more attention. And obviously now we have it at BBC, but referees are having their own shows, their own podcasts now, former referees. And the best referees are, you know, making decisions and you don't talk about them again. But it's just more and more with VAR and it's giving the referees a platform to be seen more, shown more. The names on the back of the share for me were just like, that's what's going on. Not having it. What's going on? Game's gone. Game's gone. I'm glad you brought up the play.

8:13We'll get the player's side in a minute and the perspective of the delay and how a player might manage that and how England managed that. But Sam, I'm glad as a manager, we've got you on as well because I want to talk about everything from the Tuchel perspective. Yes. And how, I mean, maybe let's start with the delay and how he would manage that as a manager, but then all the stuff in the background heading into the game. you'd have talked about it, Wayne, everyone was talking about the altitude. And yet actually by 90 minutes at full time, I don't think many people spoke of the altitude. It was more about the England performance.

8:44So Sam, from your perspective on Tuchel?

8:50I'd say pre-preparation, whether that's being given to the players prior to the meeting up or end up preparation of dealing with such different and difficult circumstances with heat, humidity, hydration, rehydration, nutrition, fluids. All of that stuff has obviously been put in place extremely well. Whether they've had cryotherapy units, whether they've had hydroabolic chambers for recovery, personally, I would have gone all down that route. Whether they've gone that far or not, I don't know. But this all gives you the opportunity to recover quicker and recover quicker in the circumstances that you're, or England are playing more often nearly the same team every time they're venturing on to the pitch.

9:41when you look at Norway they made nine changes to the game against France which was a great decision by the manager the stick he got by losing to France that many times, paid dividends when they beat one yesterday against Brazil so that was a great decision by the manager Thomas Tootle's decision on substitutes is extremely good, that's his experience over many, many years. That's the time and when to change. You don't change a player or you don't make a substitution when you go 1-0 down. You make a substitution before you go 1-0 down to stop yourself going 1-0 down. That's your job. That's the job you're paid to do.

10:27And I think that's what he done very well. He did the job on, I'm going to a back five because Mexico are going to start lobbing balls in the box because they're getting desperate. We're going to defend those balls and we're winning, we don't need to score another goal. All we need to do is not concede one. And that is the name of the game. Irrespective of the white noise outside, whether it's me or whether it's Wayne or whether it's anybody else saying it shouldn't be right or should be right, he makes the decision. This time it was spot on. Every sub was right. Yeah, but I think Sam's spot on there.

11:01And they will have prepared. Before we went to South Africa in the World Cup, we'd done two weeks with Oxygen. Max gone for 90 minutes every night. So the England team, although Thomas Tuchel said they're not prepared and they can't prepare, and they can't prepare exactly for them conditions, but they will have had quite a bit of preparation knowing that there's a chance they could play there. And then in terms of, I think it's really interesting with Thomas Tuchel because I think he's made a few decisions which... he hasn't come out and said he's done it for them reasons but I think the Jude Bellingham one earlier last year in terms of leaving him out the squad I think that was really calculated from him I think his interview after the game was calculated because after he won the game I don't see the reason why he's come out and criticised the officials that much for probably the red card which was a red card in my opinion and then complaining about having a South American official when they've got through it, they've got through that test.

12:10So I think that was very intentional and it was a message for the players. We used to see Samuel Moules better than anyone as well. We used to see Mourinho do that quite a lot and you bring in this wall around the team to say, right, it's always against everyone else here. and I think Thomas Tuchel has been doing a little bit of that. Is that just big game experience, Sam? Is that what it comes down to? Tuchel's been... It's tricky, isn't it? Because everything that Tuchel will do will get compared to what Southgate achieved and the various Euros finals and the World Cup semis. But is that Tuchel managing it better?

12:54There's the difference between the distinctions of today's positions. There's two names for your position. One is manager and one is head coach. What are you? Thomas Tuchel is a manager. And within that then, with Tuchel, he made the decision on the squad, the 26, of which there was a lot of debate about the 26. He's made the decisions on the substitutes. There's a great article on the BBC Sport website about how he broke the Mexico game down into five parts from soaking up the pressure to hitting him so quick as they did with the two Bellingham goals to then going five at the back at the end.

13:31So Tuchel's mastered it so far, Sam? Yeah, he's mastered it. I mean, he's mastered the squad he's got. I mean, the only criticism I've got with him was his squad selection in the first place. I have no other criticism on how he's coached the managing the team up to now. And what Wayne said before, what he's done to Jude Bellingham was because he's a manager. Because he said, you don't play around like that with me, son. Sit on that bench. That's being a manager, not a coach. And I think that, you know, for me, when I just look at it, these players had huge international England experience like, you know, Harry Maguire, Trent Alexander-Arnold, Luke Shaw.

14:15Luke Shaw played, I think Wayne will tell you this, Luke Shaw played the whole of the season for Manchester United. Long time. I know, yeah, you're right there. And I think that those players had huge international experience, not that old, and maybe could have been done better than some of the players that are in the squad now. I hope it doesn't seem like that at the end of this journey. I hope they all step up and play their very best. But some players' performances, as we've all recognised, we've all said up to now hadn't been good enough. And I just hope it doesn't kick him in the backside going forward.

14:58Because, like I said, having five great substitutes to come on and have the confidence to put him on is a big bonus for you today. Yeah, I think I completely agree with Sam there in terms of England haven't been at the best this tournament. I think there's no denying that. It was a massive victory in terms of giving the players the belief from the confidence that he can win the tournament and I think Thomas Tuchel has had probably the best training you could have before this England job in terms of the PSG job he's done now we have PSG and you know we had Messi he had Neymar he had Mbappe he had these superstars who you know expect to play every week who and you can imagine trying to deal with that and trying to deal with you know you're not playing or you know I'm going to play this player he's taking penalties whatever that situation was he had I think he had really good training he will have learnt a lot from that whether it goes right or wrong you learn either way and then I think and this is why we're here and now all we're in now the England camp is the scadness and so I think there's no way we've been able to have that at PSG with all them superstars there and then I think that's why he's managed Jude Bellengan really well over the last year and then he's left players out of the squad and to my surprise, maybe to many people's ex-players or coaches' surprise, he's left some players out of the squad.

16:29Even when Liverpool went home injured and he brings Schellabre in and then you look and think, you've got Luke Shaw, you've got Lewis Hall who had a good season, you've got Trent still there. Why has he not brought one of these in? It would have made more sense, but he has wanted to keep togetherness and I think that was evident in the game because not just the lads who started, the players who come on, the players who haven't played a minute, which I think might come back to hurt England, I think, because the players are running, Declan Rice looks dead on his feet at the time, I thought he was brilliant, I thought that was his best game in the tournament last night, but hopefully we have three more games and come that semi-final, I think we will beat Norway, come the semi-final and the final, So, you know, we're going to need one or two of them players.

17:20I think you haven't played a million in this tournament and I think that might come back to hurt us. Sam, thank you for joining us on the Wayne Run show. Quick one, are they going all the way?

17:35I'm confident, more confident now than I was before the game. I thought that, you know, the way they showed not just skills, but the tenacity and the will to get through and the will to win. And also the escalating of some players' performances, particularly in the wide areas. And I think that good old Pitt gets a lot of stick, but when he needed, he's always there. I think the game last night, sorry Sam, before you go, I think the game last night, when we were talking about the delay, the altitude, all the difficulties, the atmosphere, Mexico's record there. I think that unintentionally helped England because I think in the previous games we were chasing a lot.

18:21We looked unorganised defensively in terms of Anderson, Rice, the full-backs coming inside. We were out of position a lot defensively. And I think just with the conditions helped in terms of saying, right, we have to stay together. We can't let these gaps appear. and it kept the players closer together, made them harder to beat. So I think the conditions definitely helped where we were all talking about it may be harmless. Yeah, we'll get on to mind over matter. Can I just give you the unsung hero? My unsung hero is Anderson. He's phenomenal. He breaks up every balls that the opposition are trying to get through.

19:00He wins balls back. He rarely gives the ball away. His energy, I've never seen it. He doesn't even look tired at the end now. So I think that he is number one selection for Thomas Tootle, I'd say. He's straight in there because he gives so much without that much attention to everybody else unless you're particularly looking at when he pops up and how he pops up. You look at when a player needs a pass, he's in a position to take the pass. It might not only be 15 yards away, but he's in the space, he's ready for it. He's ready to get you out and move the ball on again. And I think he's just a complete all-round midfield player in terms of that position and how you work that position.

19:48Obviously, at the other end, he's not quite as good at the creative or the goal-scoring side of it, but he's absolutely essential in that position for all those players to benefit from him in front of him. So just going back to what you were saying about how England's players dealt with everything, the altitude, the atmosphere, as Sam was saying, the Mexico tactics perhaps at times, mind over matter for the players and how hard as a player is that? How did you deal with it as a player? And does that now, if you've got that squad that maybe Tuchel's looked into when we're talking about him picking his 26, maybe he's looked at all of these factors, how much does that push England on?

20:34Yeah, no, I think, as I said before, when, you know, Tuchel's making these decisions, and I said this a few weeks back, I think he definitely intended to create what he created with Jude Berlin. I think that was for sure, that was an intention of his, to keep Jude on his toes, firstly. You know, you see Morgan Rodgers starting ahead of him, and that debate was there, who should start. and the decision to leave some players out and pick this squad he's picked, I think it was a surprise to everyone. And so far, I think, you know, performance-wise, we haven't been at our best, but we've managed to get two games, and that's what that togetherness does.

21:18It was difficult when it went to 2-1, and obviously we go to 10 men, and to get that third goal and then concede the penalty, which I think was a pen. I think Harry Kane tried to kick the ball, I've seen it given before the lad he kicks the lad to get his foot in ahead of him and then I actually when we went to the back five I was thinking have we done it too early have we gone to the back five too early and then I think Mexico actually played into our hands a little bit they kept putting balls in the box where we had Stones who we thought done really well and he'd come on Dan Burns done well and he'd come on and then the balls in the box Pickford was coming and claiming or punching and it actually helped us a little bit.

22:04I think if Mexico played a little bit more around our box, it would have made it a bit more difficult. But the lads dug in and you could see they were shattered at the end. And that togetherness and composure and desire was there from the lads. It was evident for everyone to see. So I think it was a statement performance, statement win. And I do honestly believe that'll give, if the players, you know, I'm sure they will all, we'll see in interviews, say, yeah, we've got the quality to go and win the World Cup. But I think that would give them that extra boost and belief that they actually can go and do it.

22:42And everybody, the starting XI did really well. But it was when the adversity came that the players stepped up. But on top of that, players that have been perhaps more criticised than us, I'm thinking Jed Spence comes on, has a great game when he comes on. So that's a real boost for everybody. Yeah, it is. And I think it's an interesting one with Jed Spence because Tuchel, we've seen publicly he's been harsh with him in the training session and in the previous game. I don't know if that's just because he's a full-back and he's the closest one to him. On the wrong side of the pitch at the wrong time.

23:19But he's done well. We got told before the game he was injured, so it was a bit strange to see him come on. So he clearly wasn't injured. so whether that was Thomas Tuchel trying to protect him a little bit because he did get a little bit of stick but yeah I think the centre-backs I don't think have been at the best this tournament but I thought they were immense Jude Bellingham was I was giving ratings after the game I gave him a 10 I thought everything about his performance is desire before he scored the first goal I said in the studio to Mika and Kelly and Joe Art I said something's going to happen with Jude you could just see and then he went and scored two goals quickly he had the clearance from Septy where he switched off actually a little bit but then reacted really well so I just think in all it was the perfect game for England and our played out I don't think it could have went any better in terms of the adversity and what we had to go through in terms of digging in with 10 men, it was the perfect game for a manager to to then try and actually implement that togetherness even more.

24:30I'm going to touch on Jude with you in more detail in a sec, but was it Jude who said that the old England would have crumbled and you took that really well, but how? What's the difference then? What are you seeing from an England side that you played in to a Jude Bellingham talking about what he is? No, listen, I think we, in terms of England teams in the past, you can always say they crumbled if they didn't win anything so and no one's worried since 66 and we've had games where like from the teams I've played where we've been very unlucky and we lost on penalties to Portugal in Euro 2004 and again in the quarter finals to Portugal in 2006 so I think that's just a heat of a moment thing so now we hope this team doesn't crumble you know we've got Norway who we're expected to win we'll go into that game as big favourites and then potentially Argentina or Ecuador Colombia who I think have looked really good in this tournament I think potentially one of them could be in the semi-final and then obviously France who looked very good as well Spain look very good and really looking forward to watching them tonight so yeah I think you just hope that we can build on that last game because as I said I don't think and there's going to be comparisons with Southgate and Thomas Tuchel I think in previous tournaments we've played actually better under Southgate than we have in this tournament so we hope we can build on performance wise but also just get there if we can get to that final and give ourselves a chance I think that's what all the players can try and do them So when we look at both Gareth Southgate and Tuchel, we obviously know from his time at England how well Gareth Southgate works and what he got out of the squad.

26:28Tuchel is someone you've played against, somebody that you've obviously observed and got to know in your coaching career as well. So how do the two compare? Not really. I don't think we should compare the two of them. I think Gareth's done an unbelievable job with England in terms of... Of course, he just couldn't get over the line. And that's where you could say they crumble. Going back to what Jude said, but I don't think they crumbled. I think they couldn't. They were just unlucky. The Italy game was a game which was probably the most disappointing one. Not winning that. I haven't gone ahead so early.

27:10And then you come up against good opposition. France is a very good team who knocked us out. Spain beating us in the other final. who you know sometimes you get beaten in finals I've had it where we've lost to Barcelona in two Champions League finals and you've got to hold your hands up and say this and they were the better team you you can't always win them all but I think in terms of comparing Gareth and Tuchel I think that's unfair on Gareth because and it's big shoes to fill for Thomas Tuchel you know for him to even get close to what Gareth Southgate done he's got to go and win something to eclipse him he's got to go and win something if we're sat here in six years time saying Thomas Tuchel got to two finals and a semi-final of a major tournament then you're saying he's done a really good job so that's what Gareth achieved but I think we bring up a manager in of Tuchel's calibre to try and go and eclipse that he's been very successful in his career at club level and we hope he can be the difference in getting us over that line.

28:19Let's talk, Jude. I've been teasing it. You gave him a 10. Why? I just thought his performance... That was a really aggressive why. I don't mean that, Christian. No, no, no. I want to know why you gave him a 10. I just think his performance, as we spoke about everything around the game, you know, all the pitfalls which were there for this game if England can go and win the game. I just talked to, I spoke about it before, I mentioned it last week, I said Jude Bellingham is going to have a game in this tournament where we're going to need him. Harry Kane is the talisman of this team, he's the goalscorer, I think if we win it it will be because of Harry Kane.

29:01But there was a game, I mentioned this earlier on in my punctual work, I said Jude Bellingham is going to have a game where we're going to need him. we're going to need him to drag us through you look at Stephen Gerrard against AC Milan the 2005 Champions League final Roy Keane against Juventus for Manchester United they dragged the teams through them games and I felt like that was Bellingham's one where them two goals the timing of the goals his desire, his work rate his hunger and at times defensively he's not always in the right positions but his desire to get back and put that last minute tackle in and help his teammates when they're not maybe having the best game was everything I just felt when you get asked to mark one out of ten you look and think could he have done a little bit more to get that mark up I just felt it was the right game to give him a ten out of ten So we've got Norway next and listening to what you're saying there because you were talking about two managing minutes and how that might come back to bite England.

30:14I assume Kane starts, Bellingham starts. For Norway then, do you look at, and the defence look pretty good or very solid largely, do you look at anyone, change anyone for Norway? Is there anyone you want to see come in and think they have to start, for example? No, I think it's a difficult question to answer because I think what's going to happen now today, tomorrow, over the next two or three days actually is they're going to look how the players recover from what was a very difficult game. So that will all be taken into account and if the players are all recovered well, obviously the right back is going to change.

30:57Again, which I think has been a problem for England in this World Cup. other than that I think I think Thomas Susha will be pretty open on this that looks like a starting starting 11 with O 'Reilly Conter who goes right back Gehi James is your fit Jed Spence Stones can play there yeah no I don't like to see centre backs out there if I'm being honest I think if you've got a right back there there's a reason he's being brought to this World Cup and the one game where actually he didn't he done really well into croatia when he come on jed spent he's done well when he come on the one game where he didn't do that well was when he started left back so um if you've got a right back there for me you play the right back um and then you i'd probably go sakura and and anthony gordon after this performance um and then obviously the same two midfielders in rice and anderson and and jude um just off Harry Kane but I do think in the the run into the next couple of games to try and get to the final he is going to need different players I believe because it's going to be very difficult for all them players to play all the games to go to the final and hopefully them players are ready that's my only concern Who would you bring in?

32:21Is there anyone you're thinking on the bench where they could just help out? I still think I think Ollie Watkins or Ivan Toni have got a big role to play in this tournament. I know Ivan Toni hasn't played a minute. Now obviously with Jordan Enns, now you hope Maynard is ready in case anything happens with Rice, more so Rice. Are you surprised Maynard's not had any minutes yet? I am surprised. He hasn't. But as I say, I think the two games before Mexico, I thought, to probably disagree with what Sam said on Ellie Lanson I think we've chased a lot Ellie Lanson and Declan Rice when we've been in possession and we've had to chase a lot and this is not a criticism I think in terms of doing too much work in there when you can do less I think it's really important that Rice and Lanson stay next to each other I think we've ended up with Rice in front of him and then Ellie Lanson has got a lot of ground to cover, the whole full width of the pitch to cover.