Essien & Rooney: ‘We’d have done the Suárez handball’

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1:06Discover the V-Series lineup at cadillac.com. Mourinho's mindset was whatever you do, you come off that pitch and win. It might sound a bit bad, but he'd cheat as well. No, in a good way. It felt like there was more men on the pitch. Back when we were playing, it was like, he's going to kick you. So, no, you need to be ready or I'm going to kick him and I think that was more enjoyable. If an African team wins the World Cup, I want to be at that party.

1:35Okay, well we're in the thick of the World Cup right now and this week's guest, Wayne, is someone that you had some pretty good battles with on the pitch in the Premier League. Yeah, it was very tough, obviously, to play against Michael, I think, is one of the best midfielders in the history of the Premier League and you knew going into the game it was always a tough game, a battle, a fight you had to try and win that fight and I always remember John Terry telling me how strong Michael was and then the next game the two of us went in for a shoulder barge, I think I won it I think so I was looking at John Terry you said he was dead strong but one of the hardest opponents to play against for sure Michael Essien, welcome along to the show.

2:26Thank you for coming on. Your right to reply, of course. Did he win that shoulder barge? I don't think so. I don't remember. But I mean, yeah, thanks for having me. And yeah, it's always tough to play against my United team. They were quite strong and very tough, but it's a battle, as you said, a battle that you want to win. So yeah, we'll do our best to win. They were the glory days weren't they? Chelsea, Man United, those battles that these two had. It was a really golden era I feel like in the Premier League at that point in time. I think that Chelsea team was so strong and the Man United team as well.

3:05But I think during that period in time when you saw those two come up, it was like literally a clash of the giants. When you were watching it, it was always nail-biting stuff. So yeah, amazing to have Michael on with us. Club football is on the back burner a little bit at the moment though. I think there's quite a bit of excitement and intrigue around both Chelsea and Man United. But the World Cup, how excited are you? And for Ghana as well, because of course they're in England's group. I mean, yeah, I think this is a game where the nation is looking forward to see because of the history we have with England.

3:39And of course, we have some players that, you know, the appearance are from Ghana. So yeah, I mean, it's exciting. And of course, I'm looking forward to it and keeping my fingers crossed for Ghana to win. We've said a few times, haven't we, Wayne, this isn't an easy group for England. They're going to be tough to play against. I wouldn't want to play Ghana. No one will have to win because physically they're strong, they're technically very good. So I think the group is tougher for England than a lot of people think. Ghana as a nation when you played them how did you view them because as we've seen in the Premier League the players that have come over the likes of Michael they're always so strong I don't think I've played against them I think I missed the friendly game I think I missed it but listen you know exactly what you're going to get you're going to get it's going to be a physical battle it's going to be very tough you're going to have to work extremely hard and be on your game for 90 minutes and so yeah any team who comes up against Ghana, you know, you're infinite of game.

4:46Let's reflect on some of your memories then of playing for Ghana. What was it like? Because we know that Wayne talks a lot on this show about loving playing for England and obviously played with some amazing players. What was it like for you? Because I particularly think back to 2006.

5:05Yeah, that was our first ever World Cup. and of course I'm honoured and I'm proud to be part of that group to qualify the nation to their first ever World Cup. How big was that? Give us an idea of what an achievement that was and how it was viewed as country. It was a big achievement because we've never participated in the World Cup before and of course we've had some great players that have tried and they couldn't make it. So for our group to do it, it was huge. And also, of course, it's so difficult in playing the qualifiers in Africa. You're always so popular with neutral fans as well, though.

5:50Like I feel like when Ghana play, it's like sometimes it's like people's second team. When they see you playing, they want Ghana to do well. Yeah, I mean, of course, if you look around, I mean, we are quite happy people. you know and of course when it comes to football we're quite serious on the pitch and and yeah as I said to to make it to take the nation to their first ever World Cup was was a great achievement for us You got the two wins in the group didn't you against was it the Czech Republic and the USA? Yeah we lost our first game against Italy Yeah were you injured for part of it was that right?

6:29No I was not injured I missed the game against Brazil through a suspension Oh, okay. So you weren't available for that one. That one must have been frustrating. It was, it was, because it was a game I was looking forward to. So when the second yellow came, I was like, oh. But yeah, I have to still, you know, keep my concentration and try to finish the game and see the team through to the next stage. What was so special about that group? Why were you the group that was able to do it? Just remind us of like some of the players and the characters that you had. I mean, we were like the underdogs, I would say.

7:06And of course, it was in Germany and we have a lot of huge Ghanaian community down there. And, you know, so we went to the game like, OK, what can we do here? Let's give it a go. And after our first game against Italy, we had quite a good game. And, you know, from there, our confidence grew. And, you know, of course, we faced Czech Republic the second game and they were lucky to have Peter Cech in their goal. It won't be too nice for them. And then, of course, we finished with America. And also, you know, we have, again, we have a huge Ghanaian community in America. So you don't want to lose against.

7:52So, yeah. Can you remember that from 2006? Can you remember how well Ghana did? because they were, as Kay said, particularly during that tournament, they were like everyone's second team. Everyone just got on board and wanted them to do well, it felt like. I know you were in it, so it's a bit different. Yeah, it was not the best tournament for me. I was going to say, 2006 probably doesn't bring the same memories. I think probably with all the African teams, what they bring is energy and the fan base, the fans. It looks so much fun. Doesn't it? You want to be in there with the fans. Obviously, Ghana's first World Cup, they've done really well.

8:31As I said before, you just don't want to face a team like that because you know they can hurt you in so many different ways. But yeah, Ghana's done really well in that tournament. I've got bad memories, but I think they can be proud for the first World Cup. They've done a really good job. What did that do for football going forwards? Because like you said, you'd never been there before. That must have just ignited a whole new belief in the country. The thing was the nation, they were excited to see us there, to represent them. And, you know, as Wayne said, we bring energy and excitement in there.

9:06And yeah, of course, the fan base is huge as well. So yeah, I think it means a lot to the country and of course to us, the players. Remind me of some of the other names that were in that squad, because when I think you were obviously one of the stars, but who else was key to that? We had Suleyne Montari we had of course Azamuajan we had Steven Appiah who was playing for Juventus at the time we had we have Samoa who was playing for Bayern So some big players yeah and then who else can I remember we have Derek Boughton I'm not going to ask you to go through the house but that would be quite it is a long old time we did have we did have some quite you know good individual.

9:52It makes me quite nostalgic when you hear back to those names, doesn't it? The what was it given us like in that camp? Was it truly like a united squad at that point? Yeah, it was. I mean, if you come to our camp, it's all about fun, you know, joking around, playing, singing around and stuff like that. So it was, it was great. We had a great unity amongst us at that stage. What role were you in the dressing room? What kind of character were you? I'm quite funny when I'm comfortable around my teammates, but outside I'm very quiet and try to keep to myself. But in the dressing room, I'm quite fun.

10:35Wayne's told us before, you need players like that, don't you, at the World Cup? You need different characters in different ways. And sometimes, you know, in a World Cup you're there for that long. and sometimes the person you normally speak to a lot, you get bored. When you do, you get bored of speaking to that person or in that group. So you go and speak to other teammates who you maybe might have spoke to that much. So you need different energy, different characters at the right times. Yeah, I think I was similar. I was always trying to have fun. Probably some players didn't want me around them.

11:13him at times but you need different characters and different energy for sure. After the high of 2006 then, how tough was it for you to miss out in 2010? I wouldn't say it was tough but it was more of, I would say I was sad and disappointed that I couldn't make it through because I had quite a bad knee injury and I couldn't recover on time. I remember they even called me up to see if I can still join them. And I was not aware. What was the injury at the time? I had a meniscus after my ACL injury a year after that. And it happens when I was away with Ghana, actually, in Angola, when we were in the AFCON.

12:01So I played the first game against Ivory Cruz, I think. So the next day training and then it happens, I have to come back. I mean, yeah, it was sad, but it's what it is. It's football, it's life, you know. And also I was looking forward to it because it was the first ever World Cup in Africa. And to me, it was tough, but I mean, with my positive mindset, I just deal with it and watch my teammates on TV and they did very well. I almost feel quite bad bringing this up, but we do have to talk about the Uruguay game in the quarterfinal when Luis Suarez, I mean, I think Wayne off camera said he made an unbelievable save, which is probably a fair assessment.

12:49But I think if you're a player playing for your country, I think we would all do it. I would do the same. I think so. If you ask any football player, you wouldn't know if you are, Wayne. Yeah, no, but you do the same. I would do the same with your country. So as much as he's probably hated in Ghana, I think he would do the same. I mean, I know the nation, they were quite very angry about it. But as a player, at that moment, I would do the same too. What was going through your mind when you saw that at home? Because you probably were watching at home while that was going on. Were you angry at the time?

13:26I was not. As a football person, I won't be angry about that. But of course, it was like, wow, why did he do that? He could have just let it go. But I mean, it's an instant thing. And that was the first thing that came to his mind. And he did it. Were you surprised when Asamoah Jean missed the penalty as well after? Then again, as a football person, you can be surprised because it can happen. Yeah. And he's our best penalty taker. And you can see after that, during the penalty, he was the one to take for gun and he scored. But at that moment, when the ball was flying out, I was like, damn it. But yeah, it's one of those things that happens in football.

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14:56it does feel like when you look back on that moment and like that for Ghana like if you'd have won that game what could you have gone on to do I'm sure you've all replayed it over I know you weren't playing in your mind so many times but it just felt like that was an opportunity to go to an even further level yeah that was well one step to the same is in it so So, I mean, I don't know, I can't even put words to it, but we're still proud of them. They did the nation proud. They did the whole African proud. And also, prior to that, you can see what Morocco did in the last World Cup. So, we're getting close.

15:36Yeah, actually, I went to a Morocco game in Qatar. Their fans are, actually, you were talking before about the party, the African fans being. Moroccan fans are incredible. Bringing it back to World Cup overall, in terms of representing Ghana, what's the pressure like compared to club football? And what was it like for you? Because you were obviously at the peak of your career when you were going and competing in those World Cups. How did it compare going away with Ghana? I mean, the pressure back home is quiet. Mentally, you have to be mentally strong to do with the pressure. because I mean, England pressure is a different thing, but back home the pressure can't even go as far as to your families.

16:24So it can be tough, but I think we just have to do what we can do. If we win, you're the best. If you lose, you get hammered, but that's part of the game. Yeah, I guess it's different pressure, but the same. you know what it was like playing for England. Yeah, it's always pressured whoever you play for, I suppose. And you're always trying to do your best and be successful. But when you're not, you have to take the stick from the fans. And sometimes in different countries, it goes overboard. I think we've seen that quite a bit. But yeah, that's something as a player you have to deal with and whether it's right or wrong.

17:12after the tournament. When you get knocked out, you don't know, but the pressure's always there. In terms of an African nation at the World Cup, they've obviously, you talked there about the first World Cup in Africa, teams like Ghana, Morocco, starting to really show, aren't they, what the African nations can do. What's the next thing they do? Can they win a World Cup? Well, that's... If an African team wins the World Cup, I want to be at that party.

17:43Trust me to think of a party for anyone else. I think that's a dream, isn't it? It's been a national holiday for like two weeks. Slowly, slowly we're getting close. The continent is getting close. So yeah, we are keeping our fingers close that one day it will happen. Will you be happy regardless of what African team it is? Of course, I'll be even more happy if it was Ghana. Yeah, of course. Of course, if any African teams win, will be there. The whole continent will party. How do you see the African teams faring in this World Cup? If I look back in Qatar, what Morocco did, of course now the expectations are quite high.

18:27And also, of course, it's going to put other African countries under a bit of pressure. But I think it's a good pressure and they have to go there and give everything they can and then hopefully one of them can even go further. Who do you think has got the best chance of going far? I would have to say Ghana first, you know. I'm in Morocco. I'm in Morocco, and I think, of course, Senegal is quite there. They've got some good players as well. I think these four nations, one of them will go far. What do you think is the missing element so far for African nations that they haven't been able to win a World Cup?

19:12I think a bit of luck, maybe. Luck? Because I think, as you said, they are getting closer and they just need that little push like Arsenal have done after 22 years. Do you think the heat and humidity and altitude, do you think that will help African teams? I don't think so, you know, because we also struggle when it's hard. Yeah, we do. We do. So for me, for example, I hate playing in the sun, even though I come from Ghana. But I'm saying that because we've lived our lives in Europe. So when we go back, you know, we need time to adjust to the heat. So I don't think they're going to benefit from the heat.

20:03is going to be just us, everyone coming to the tournament. In terms of Ghana, and obviously we're all English, who are the main players, who are the main people that we should be worried about when England play you in your current team? I'm sure you knew already. I'm sure you guys are going to be more worried about Antoine's team. What season he's had? But he's English, isn't he?

20:30No, he's British. No, of course, Antoine is going to be the one. Has it surprised you how well he's done? Because his rise has been absolutely remarkable. I interviewed him after the FA Cup final, and it was only a few years ago. I think it was 2018-19. He was playing for Newport. Then he's gone on and done brilliantly with Bournemouth, won the FA Cup, the League Cup with Manchester City. And to still play every single game pretty much under Pep Guardiola, he's a special player. I mean, his journey has been very good so far. And he's been, I mean, from where he came from and then now. But what surprises me a little bit is, you know, sometimes when the players switch in January transfer, it takes time for them to adjust to their team, to their system.

21:24But he looks like he's been there already. And he's fitting quite well. So he's been very remarkable and it's been amazing to see him doing so well for City. It's a good point, isn't it? Because particularly under Pep Guardiola, we've seen players go in there and take time to acclimatise. And he scored, I can't remember the exact stat, but it was like six goals in his first 10 games or something. He just picks up where he left off for Bournemouth, doesn't he? Yeah, no, he's been incredible, I think. To go in at Man City with that many top players and obviously Erlen Haaland as the main goal scorer and do what he's done.

22:02You know, he scored the winning goal in the FA Cup final. It's incredible, really. And when he gets his feet actually under the table and he gets going, it's scary to think what he can do. And yeah, I just think he carried it on from Bournemouth. And I interviewed him as well after, not me. You need to stop this. We interviewed him after the game. And it was really refreshing to hear him talk. And he sounds so down to earth. And the journey he's been on is no surprise. he's got to where he is because he seems like such a level-headed man very humble and I'm really pleased with him So if we stop Antoine Semenya will be alright is that what you're saying?

22:44Yeah that will open spaces for other players too What would you say the main strength is that it's gone inside? I think physically they are quite physical to him and technically they are quite good and And of course, you have to show that on the pitch. It's easy for us to talk about it. But if you don't show it on the pitch, then it doesn't matter. Would you prefer to play in this side or the one you played in? Or the one I played in, yeah. He can't biff off his old teammates. No, but you never know sometimes because I reckon, for example, Wayne, you probably have those thoughts as well. Like if you were playing in this side, how you would have done as well?

23:26Yeah, I think you're always going to say the team you played in. aren't you? But yeah, there's teams I look at, like I would have loved to play for Barcelona under Pep Guardiola because that team was just for me incredible but you're always going to back your team and your teammates. I've noticed the way you've reversed that sentence now. You used to say I wanted to play under Pep Guardiola but you now clarify by saying Barcelona first, don't you? Yeah, I will. Because you don't want to. Micah Richards, did you, don't you? No, yeah. I think it would have been so intriguing to play under Pep because just to try and get into his mind and how he works and tactically what he wants from him.

24:06Do you agree, Michael? Is he someone you'd have loved to have played under? Yeah, I do. I do. Because I think it's changing football. Have you come across it much? I just say hello. When we played against Barcelona, back in the days, we ran the whole game. Well, I go back to when you said would you rather play for the team you was in or the team now I think back when when we were playing against each other it felt like there was more men on the pitch I feel like that and it was strong it was hard it was a battle fight where now it feels like it's more technical it's more possession based where back when we were playing it was like he's gonna kick you so no you need to be ready or I'm gonna kick him or whatever you need to be ready for that battle first and I think that was more enjoyable.

25:02I think now it's, football's nice and it's nice on the island, but knowing that you've gone into a game and you've had that battle, you've had that fight and you've come through it and won, I think that gives you a different feeling. Michael, do you agree? Yeah, I totally agree. I agree to what Owen just said. I mean, back then, as you said, we had men, men. We had men on the pitch, you know. Remember at Chelsea, we used to have at least five, six national team captains. So you can imagine, and of course, facing the United States always. We didn't care about tactics. You just have to go there, win your battle.

25:42And, you know, once you do that, you win the game. So how much did you enjoy those battles? Because I didn't ask you at the beginning, actually, what was it like playing against Wayne? It was a nightmare. It was a nightmare. I remember one of them. He probably takes that as a compliment. I remember one of the FA Cubs finals in Wembley. He was chasing me down and he just pushed me away and took the ball. I was like, f***, and I kept chasing him. So, yeah, I mean, it was tough, but also it was very exciting to play against players like that. Did Jose ever highlight him as a player that you need to watch out for?

26:20Surely he did. Of course, of course. Of course, you know, when you are going to play against United, of course. you see Wins named there and then they always put using Pac that guy was a nightmare but it was so difficult to play in Chelsea because if I was playing in the number 10 position and I'm trying to get space behind the midfielders I'm trying to get space behind Michael space behind like McAlealy or and then you've got John Terry or Cavalio coming in and it was so difficult and I think the biggest strength of that Chelsea team was they would do anything to win. Absolutely anything. The kicker, the, it might sound a bit bad, but the cheater as well.

27:07Got a right to reply. In a good way, we do the same, but not to, and that is Jose Mourinho's mindset was, whatever you do, you come off that pitch and win. And I don't care how you do it. And that's a massive, it's a compliment, it's a massive strength to have. Think how different this fixture would have been if VAR was involved I don't think some of us can even play two games in a row. Because it was quite tough, it was very physical. I've seen a tackle on YouTube today and it was Alan Smith and John Terry. And both of them should have got a straight red card, I don't know if you've seen it. And then they stand up to go with each other and then shake each other's hands and walk off.