Franny Jeffers... "Leaving Everton Killed Me"

15:28Franny Jeffers:Honestly, that's where I was when I got the call to say, this deal's happening at Arsenal, you'd better get home. I said, can it wait till tomorrow? The phone's just come on.

15:40Franny Jeffers:no listen it had been muted and it was tough because I'm a massive Evertonian I just am you know like him we're Everton people our families are Everton people we love Everton but at the time it it needed money every summer there was a sale or two and yeah it happened to be me Michael Ball and Richard Dunn I think three younger boys who'd come through the academy who were probably the most saleable assets there and the club needed money to stay afloat and it was just the way it was and I tried to agree a new deal with Everton and I think they knew as well that they're probably going to have to probably going to have to cash in and you know if I was going to leave Everton I wasn't going to anyone no disrespect mediocre I wanted to go and play for the best if it wasn't wasn't Man United or Arsenal I was probably going to stay at Everton and I told the club that I wasn't you know I felt like I was at a stage in my career where if I was leaving my Boyle club and the place where I wanted to be and I did want to be at Everton then I was only leaving for the best so it was it was it was either going to be Arsenal or Man United and yeah.

17:17Wayne Rooney:Did you speak to Wenger on the phone? I can't quite

17:21Franny Jeffers:remember because I was in BCM so. Did you had a few drinks? No I had a few pokes. A Coke. Thanks. and anyway I flew on the next day the grouching me rarely yeah a bit of a long goal there do you know what though

17:35Wayne Rooney:it's so hard when obviously when I left Everton to go United you don't realise how tough it is because everyone around you your family your mates the area you're from it's because it's like their dream is to play for Everton and then you've got it there and you're leaving so it's so difficult when you're leaving and there's obviously circumstances Franny and myself both left but it's so tough to leave

18:04Franny Jeffers:so yeah so I goes and meets David Dean and Arsene Wenger and the deal's quickly done and I'm an Arsenal player

18:16Wayne Rooney:Is that a bit surreal? Being so intrinsically linked to Everton Yeah

18:21Franny Jeffers:it was tough I remember being in the car with my mum and dad leaving Ibury and real real like how can I put it happiness but also a lot of sadness yeah like you know that Everton badge that meant so much to me like was I wasn't wearing that anymore I was now an Arsenal player and do you know what I found really tough it was the stick that I got. Like, I found my own people, your own people that you, that loved you yesterday. Hated you. Now hated you. And hate's a strong word. Probably now disliked you or didn't like what you'd done. But, listen, it wasn't solely my decision to leave Everton Football Club.

19:15Franny Jeffers:Do you regret it? I do a little bit. I do. I think it killed my career. I do I had to back myself and I did you know

19:23Wayne Rooney:you would have always wondered wouldn't you if you hadn't gotten would you have always wondered

19:26Franny Jeffers:but I wanted to back myself and I wanted to go and play for it's tough to turn down it is tough to turn down I just watched I just watched Arsenal I just watched Arsenal if I'm right lose to Liverpool in the cup final Michael Owen and do you remember they murdered Liverpool do you remember and Michael scored the most loads of chances Michael scored two on the break like he could and Arsenal battered them and the deal was close to being done and I remember thinking wow you'll get some chances in that team but I forgot that Bergkamp Henry Carnu and Wiltord were all thinking the same and I went in there as a young I think it was 19 I was with big shoulders big you know having myself thinking I'll get someone out the team

20:16Wayne Rooney:So when you went into the training ground and you see all of them lot did it just dawn on you how good they were or were you still there's levels to football

20:23Franny Jeffers:there is I'm sure Wayne would have felt it at Man United there is levels so you quickly realise the levels have gone up you know no disrespect to any Everton player that I was training with or playing with at the time they weren't Thierry Henry and they weren't Dennis Bergkamp they weren't Karnoos Will Torch and then you work your way back you're into Vieiras Gilberto Silvers and you know they're all superstars it was a team of superstars and then you go back to Tony Adams Lee Dixon you know it was just it was just unbelievable that the levels had gone up but I believed in myself and I thought I'll get in the team even when you were

21:02Wayne Rooney:in training and stuff

21:03Franny Jeffers:and you think yeah yeah yeah you know you do if you haven't got that self-belief if you don't believe in yourself then who's going to believe in you so yeah I mean going back to it it was it was a tough time tough moment to leave Everton but But as I say to you, it wasn't solely a Franny Jeffers decision to leave Everton.

21:23Wayne Rooney:Did you move down there by yourself as well?

21:25Franny Jeffers:Yeah, no, I went down there on my own, yeah. Which was tough. But listen, there's no excuses. The bottom line of it is, right, I wasn't good enough to get in the team. You can go over whatever you want, right? And I don't think there's no shame in saying them four strikers. Because, you know, listen, it was mostly Thierry and Dennis that played. You know, Carnu, Will Todd, myself. You know, sometimes Sylvana play off the right or the left. They'd have probably walked into most teams in Europe at the time, those two.

22:04Wayne Rooney:That was them at the best as well. Yeah, yeah.

22:07Franny Jeffers:I got down there and sat on the bench the first season, won the double. you know so I think I was proved right in saying I wanted to go and join the best team they were by far the best team that season

22:21Wayne Rooney:did you feel part of the squad

22:23Franny Jeffers:so when you got a medal and stuff yeah I was number 9 at Arsenal iconic number and you know as mad as it sounds Dennis Bergkamp was number 10 so I had three years of sitting next to Dennis Bergkamp in the changing room talking football talking life

22:38Wayne Rooney:tell that to your son

22:41Franny Jeffers:he'd probably say to me who's Dennis Perkins

22:43Wayne Rooney:there is that is you the first

22:44Franny Jeffers:scholarship to win

22:45Wayne Rooney:the Premier League well

22:46Franny Jeffers:or was there one before I think there must have been I mean I never got a medal and that was another disappointing because I think now you maybe need four or is it five I think five right so I think that back then you needed ten so that killed me because you know when it's getting

23:03Wayne Rooney:closer to the end of the season were you ever just looking at Arsene going there was too many

23:09Franny Jeffers:honestly there was too many I remember the wind I'm almost same and Martin Keogh needed an appearance with like two games to go. And you know what Ray Parler was like for winding people up. So like Ray knew and Martin was angry when Martin would be like, I need an appearance to get my medal. So I remember, I think it was honestly, there was two games left and Martin needed an appearance and they'd always have arson on like the jokes. And Ray would say, Gaffey, you've got to wind him up. You've got to wind Martin up. So I think you'd put two subs on, you only allowed three then. and Martin was out warming up and he would be warming up I can't remember who he was warming up with but Arsene would come out and wave the other person back and it was the last sub and you could see my heart like that he could run the back towards the bench and you could see you're laughing his head off do you know what I mean but Ray Parler would have him in on the wind up and I'm sure you've heard the stories about them winding Martin Keogh on up at the changing rooms but there was too many like going back to it there was probably too many who needed only three subs there was too many who needed two appearances or something to get that medal so look it wasn't But you'd still be there trying to get I think it's poor me I think if you play a game in the Premier League you've contributed haven't you?

24:27Wayne Rooney:I think if you're available as well if you're training every day with the team you're helping the team and if you're available and whether the manager picks you or not that's not yours You're pushing the other players I just wanted to talk to you about life post Arsenal then because you went on to play, I think, for about 10 different clubs and it took you around the world. I had more clubs than Tiger Woods in the end, didn't I? It took you around the world as well, didn't it? Australia, Montreal.

24:49Franny Jeffers:Yeah, so I went back. I went from Arsenal back to Everton on loan. And once again, you go on about world class. Then I had this fella in my way then, didn't I? So I'd gone from Perkamp, Henry, Wiltshire, Carnot, all of this.

25:08Wayne Rooney:Thinking you're going to be in the team in any moment.

25:10Franny Jeffers:I think I had a dream of playing with him, by the way. That's why I went back to Everton. Because they always say you should never go back. I knew I was sort of... People probably expected me to hit the ground running. I'll be honest, the reason I went back to Everton, I love Everton, was to play up front with him. You know, like we talk about, both from the same area. So I went back there for that and it never quite happened. And there was other good strikers there. once again I go on about it you know everyone had five strikers so even Everton strikers then

25:46Wayne Rooney:Kevin Campbell

25:47Franny Jeffers:God rest his soul big dunk Wayne myself Thomas Radzinski you know you're talking about like Everton who were proper men as well we were a bottom half team weren't we you know if we punched above our weight we could finish in the top half if we finished probably where we should we were we were bottom half and everyone had them everyone had loads of strikers and what I struggled with when I went back to Everton was I couldn't find any rhythm I'd been at Arsenal for two seasons and I'd not kicked the ball and all of a sudden people thought they were getting the Franny Jeffers back that I'd left two seasons before and they weren't because So was it match fitness

26:31Wayne Rooney:or was it reaction times and stuff? It's everything isn't it?

26:34Franny Jeffers:It's everything it's your brain it's your feet you know you need it's like you're out in you for six months you come back you might get through the first couple on adrenaline but ultimately you need time to find your rhythm to find your form but ultimately you don't get that in the Premier League because if you haven't scored in two you'll probably find that there's another fella coming in because and then if he doesn't score there's one behind him coming in so I think that's a lesson

27:04Wayne Rooney:right for like young players probably try and at that stage of your development, 19 to 21 or whatever it is. Just getting game time is probably the best thing.

27:12Franny Jeffers:It's the most important thing in the world is that you get your football. Training, forget it. Yeah, OK, training's very, very important. Saturday at 3 o 'clock, Tuesday at 8 o 'clock, not in B2. And if you lose that, you lose rhythm, you can find that your career can dip very very fast and it's really really hard to drag yourself back

27:40Wayne Rooney:That's where if you look at Harry Kane when he goes out on loan David Beckham players are a similar age when you went to Arsenal have gone out on loan to lower league teams to get the game the game time so because you've been signed by Arsenal you're missing out on that game time where really if they weren't playing maybe they should have said right Sanjay stay at Everton And do you know what

28:05Franny Jeffers:I genuinely think right arson had signed me to to be around for a couple of years to to be a bit part player but i'd never been told that and and and i suppose it's really difficult because if you've played 60 games for everton by the age of 19 and a club come for you in arsenal and the manager you go and meet him and he says have a guess what you're probably not going to play that much I'm going to say have a guess what I'm probably not going to sign yeah of course yeah and that's that's the brutal reality of it so it wasn't ever explained to me but really was I advised right you know you're looking you're looking for for someone to advise you correctly and say hey listen you might want to have another couple of seasons at Everton or But, you know, I know I did say everyone was going to leave Everton.

29:06Franny Jeffers:I wanted to go to the best. But, you know, I don't mean to put you down here, but you're going to have to hit the ground running to get on Liam Bergkamp out of the team. And I think the most important time of your career as at a young age is to get football, whatever level, you know, not sit on the bench.

29:29Wayne Rooney:Men's football as well, yeah.

29:30Franny Jeffers:Men's football is important, isn't it? You look at the amount of lads now that go out on loan. We've got and we've had lads that have come to Macclesfield from good clubs and probably been playing under-21 football for a long time. It's a different sport.

29:49Wayne Rooney:Under-21 now, to when it used to be, I remember playing for the Everton Reserves against United and the two centre-backs for United that day was David May and Guy Neville. So if you didn't play in the first team, you play in the reserves where now under 21 football is probably 17 to 19 year olds so it's still it's still a development that's what it is it's not there's no real there's no men in them games where they used to be in the reserves so you're not getting that physicality or the sort of pace that you would do in a men's game I played for everything playing up front with Kevin Campbell at the reserves yeah I spoke about that yeah

30:30Franny Jeffers:yeah but then yeah so yeah now it's that doesn't happen no more so even the academies now the under 18s there was no under 18s so you would have a you would have a fair first year scholars we call them yts's first year yts or a second year yts and you had an a and a b team and it didn't matter your age whether you're a first year or a second year you you got in you wanted to be in the A team and you had to fight to get in the A team and I quickly got myself into the A team probably before lads who were two years older than me and that was just the way it went. You were judged on your ability not on your age and then in them A team games we'd often play Liverpool.

31:13Franny Jeffers:Neil Ruddock would play. Honestly, I remember a game in the A team. Neil Ruddock, Jamie Redknapp, both coming to Belfield on the way back from injury to play Everton v Liverpool in an A-team game. And the experience that that gave me as a 16-year-old, 15, 16-year-old playing up against Rudder. And I remember him saying to me, mate, if you don't keep still, I'm going to put you over that fence there. And I was like... And he probably meant it as well. No, he did, yeah.

31:46Wayne Rooney:He was like,

31:48Franny Jeffers:what do you mean? Like, mate, if you run one more, if you run into that channel again next time you go in there, I'm going to put you right over that fence there alright Sean, sorry Neil

31:57Wayne Rooney:cheers Rayson I think that's probably quite a good place to leave it isn't it there's many more stories, I'm sure we could sit here all day talking Franny, it's been so good to have you on the show to hear a little bit more about the dynamics with Wayne as well

32:09Franny Jeffers:no listen thank you, I love it it's great being back with him and yourself

32:16Wayne Rooney:yes a reminder that we'll be back again on Monday, you can listen to the Wayne Rooney show on BBC Sounds or you can watch on the iPlayer or on the BBC Sport YouTube page See you next time.

32:50Wayne Rooney:The Six Nations. on BBC Sounds.

32:58Wayne Rooney:We focus on the part of the internet that most people don't know about. It's called the dark web. Undercover in the furthest corners of the dark web, US special agents are on a mission to locate and rescue children from abuse.

33:14Franny Jeffers:Move in now.

33:15Wayne Rooney:From the BBC World Service, World of Secrets, the darkest web follows their shocking investigations. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your BBC podcasts.