Grudge Matches: Merseyside Derby, Steven Gerrard & Pizzagate

0:00I know you're all messaging each other on social media, but for 90 minutes, please, just like... That was me and Stee Gerrard. Stee Gerrard is a good mate off the pitch. And whenever I got a chance, I'm thinking I am going to absolutely smash it. Yes. We got back in the dressing room and the manager come in and he's an old man. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? And he was shaking as an Evertonian and, you know, getting ready and preparing for the game. And all the staff around the train going to do Evertonians. you feel sick.

0:30Kae Kurd:Talking about scraps in a tunnel, I saw Emil Husky on a podcast saying that you got a scrap in it.

0:41Kae Kurd:Don't worry, when I'm in Manchester, you can come then. I'm close to you. It's at the Lowry. So what's this, guys? Are you arranging the team night out to go and watch Kay? Is that the plan there, Wayne? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I was going to go and watch him. It's a bit more pleasure. Okay, it's been a big week for you, hasn't it? Well, yeah, just been up and down the country. No, say the thing that I'm really excited about. I did La Verde Apollo last night. Yeah, I did La Verde Apollo last night. How was it? Yeah, great. It's always a fun venue. That's probably my favourite venue to do comedy in. I'm lucky enough to be one of the few people that have done it three times.

1:20Kae Kurd:So, yeah, it's great fun. Okay, let's move on to the Premier League this weekend then because there are, as always, some big games, but some particularly big games. Two grudge matches. Liverpool versus Everton is 12.30 on Saturday. Arsenal versus Manchester City is 4.30 on Sunday. Now, Liverpool-Everton has obviously been a grudge match for years. Arsenal-Man City is perhaps a more newer grudge match. That wasn't such a big game, was it, when you were playing, Wayne? Not really, no. I think over the last few years, I think especially as well when Arteta's gone to Arsenal, leaving City and going back to Arsenal.

1:58There's a bit more spice in it. But yeah, I think they've been competing, haven't they, the last few years, so it makes the game bigger. So yeah, it's become more of a rival match, if you like, than normal. Let's start though with the one that you did play in, Liverpool against Everton. As an Evertonian, as a boy that played for his boyhood club, what does that game mean to you and what did it mean to you when you were playing in it? Firstly, I hated it. Hated it.

2:31We didn't win many. So it was, when you do win them, you've got to make sure you enjoy it. But yeah, it was a game. The build-up to the game, the whole week was horrible. Being around the training ground and as an Evertonian and getting ready and preparing for the game and all the staff around the training ground do it Evertonians you feel sick because you think if you lose the game again you know Liverpool rub it in your face and whatever and when I actually went back the second time to Everton I tried to make sure I got all the TVs turned off and there was nothing on the TVs about the game the build up to the game just to try and forget about it that week really and go into the game not worrying too much about it so but yeah it's a massive game and a game if you win there's no better feeling

3:26Kae Kurd:Was there any pressure from friends and family when you were playing in that derby? Oh just for tickets and you know people trying to get tickets and all my family are Evertonians and yeah it's you know you get messages make sure you beat these you know a bit stronger language than that but yeah it's it's massive it's a massive game you know and it's, I actually never won a derby. I think I played seven derbies and I didn't win any. So it's, yeah, so I've never experienced it. Before you played in one, weren't you a mascot for one as well? Yeah, I was mascot, I was about 10 or 11, I was. And do you know, for that game, I'd been waiting for ages, I knew I was going to be mascot and I think I was in me last year in junior school.

4:21So I'm waiting for ages, excited it was it was at Anfield and the game got called off because of rain oh hot rain but I was devastated so I had to wait another couple of months I think it was for them to play it but we drew the game 1-1 so it was okay it was all right yeah I've just seen a photo of it and you look exactly one of your boys looks exactly like you I agree with Louis van Gaal's comments your boys look very much like you I'm not sure which one it is is it true that night that you wound up Neville Southall during the warm-up is that true yeah he went happy well there's been a few times Neville Southall hasn't been happy with me to be honest there was in the game I think it was on Sky had it was on Soccer AM a while back they had it on footage it was when the mascot Scott used to run out with the goalkeeper and run out with the captain, then he goes with the goalkeeper and you chip the ball into his hands and then he rolled it out to me and I chipped him and scored.

5:24And then he weren't happy and then he rolled out again and I'd done it again. So, yeah, he weren't happy with me. And then I was actually bored. I was bored by fears and everything. Oh, you must have some stories from that. We played in Newcastle and we were losing 1-0. And we scored in like the 88th minute or something to get 1-1. So the ball went out for a goal kick for Everton. so I'm thinking 1-1's a good result so I'm starting to walk really slow to get the ball and Neville Southall absolutely tore the life out of me to hurry up and get the ball back so I'm thinking 1-1's a good result, I'll take the time and then he hammered me so he's had a few goals at me big nav.

6:01I can imagine from all your stories before you liked to be the wind up and I can imagine as a ball boy it probably wasn't really any different back then No, it was when you used to take it in And before you obviously spread around the pitch, you sit it in and say, under no circumstances can you kick the ball back. You've got to pick it up and roll it back or throw it back. And every time it comes to me, I'd always kick it back and chip it back into the ring. So I used to get told off every game. How would you say the Derby rivalry has changed over the years, Wayne? Perhaps since even when you were playing in it?

6:34I think it's got a bit more heated, a bit more bite. I always remember years ago where the fans sat together and there's Everton fans in the Cop and Liverpool fans in the Gladys Street and whatever. But I think that's changed a bit now. Do you miss that? No, I don't think there should be any Liverpool fans in the Gladys Street. So I agree with it. I think they should be separated for match day. But in Liverpool, there's family, there's brothers, one Everton, one Liverpool fan. And it's very mixed in terms of, you might have a dad who's a Liverpool fan and a son's an Everton fan. and so yeah it's very mixed and actually after the game you know going out together and stuff so there's no it's not bad temper or anything but it's just I just think Jordan and 90 minutes they should be separated because Liverpool fans do try and wind the Everton fans up a lot and we don't really have much ammunition what we haven't of late to go back at them I know you said you didn't win a derby I can't actually believe that does that annoy you actually?

7:36Yeah I went back when I went back we went to Anfield and I think it was about 12 minutes left and we get a penalty so I scored, that was my only goal in the derby as well, I scored the penalty to put us 1-0 up at Anfield, it was like 12 minutes to go and D equalised late on so we'd do that game but I was really nervous for that because it was Mignolain goal and he saved one of my penalties before and it was snowing so I was just thinking please don't slip so I went down the middle I never really do that I went down the middle and scored but yeah I was I was really nervous before that Okay so you haven't won a derby what I was going to ask you before is what is the feeling like of winning at Anfield though because I guess if you went there with Manchester United and you won being an Everton boy it must have been incredibly special especially given how nervous you said you used to get going Yeah it was it should be first game for Man United at Anfield we won 1-0 and I scored so no it was such a good feeling there was a guy I scored and I went to the carpet and put my hands to my ears and there was a phone whistle passed my head, nearly took my head off but I think the guy who turned the phone, it was his own phone so the police got in, got his details off it and he got banned he got banned from the stadium so I get off so we won the game 1-0 so I'd get back on the bus with the team and then I'd drive a little bit down the M62 to the service station and get off the bus and drive back to Liverpool, go back to Liverpool and see family and friends and whatever so yeah, winning at Anfield was special.

9:20Is that a thing, that you have to leave the stadium on the team bus? No, no, you can later on after that because at that time when we first came back at Anfield my first season at Man Utd so I think both Everton and Liverpool fans were happy with me but later on I'd leave straight from Manfield at times and go and see your family and stuff so yeah it was always nice if you beat Liverpool and then you go out to have some dinner in Liverpool it's always a nice feeling you used to walk with your head very high Was there ever any you know you told us after the Manchester derby you had the birthday party planned and you wished you kind of, not wished you cancelled it, but you had second thoughts about going.

10:06Did you ever have any plans after Merseyside derby that you had to rethink? No. There was one time I came out of the stadium actually and the police pulled me over. Literally right outside the stadium. A big police van pulled me over. I think I was in my little K.A. And then, so I'm thinking, and I could see everyone looking, fans, Everton and Liverpool fans there. So they'd get me out the car and into the back of the van. So I'm thinking, what's going on here? So we're getting to the back of the van and they'd pull all shirts out, ask me to sign the shirts. I was raging, I was fuming. I didn't sign them.

10:47Were you scared? Were you nervous? No, I was thinking, why have they pulled me over here? I was literally crawling in the traffic. Why have they pulled me over? And yeah, they'd pull me over and pulled all shirts off, asked me to sign them. Did you sign them? No. No? No, no. No chance. I was fuming.

11:06Kae Kurd:Yeah, you're hardly going to be accommodating to people that have left. I'm a goody two-shoes. If a police officer stops me, I'll do whatever they say. Yeah, no chance. Were they a Ebertonian fan? Were they Edison fans? I'm assuming, so I don't know. They might have been Liverpool fans for the kids or the grandkids or whatever, but yeah, they weren't happy at all, yeah. No, I'm not surprised. Scary. Bring it on to this weekend then. Kay, how do you see this one? Liverpool, obviously, have had a brilliant start, even if they've left it late in quite a few games now, maybe not fully kind of firing.

11:39But Everton have had a reasonable start as well.

11:42Kae Kurd:I think it will be a good game. I think although Liverpool have won most of their games and stuff, I think they haven't been playing as well as they were last season. I feel like they've had a few last-minute goals that have, you know, that sort of papered over the cracks that makes them look better than they are. But I think it's going to be a good one. Everton look pretty strong. I've liked the way they're playing. Jack Grealish has looked so much better with a bit of freedom. And I think it's going to be a good game. I think obviously as well, when it's a derby, anything can happen usually.

12:19Kae Kurd:You see records go out of the window most of the time when it's a derby and with the emotions involved and stuff. I think it could be, I think Everton could pull out a really surprising performance and I hope they do to be honest with you Evertonians feeling more confident this year Wayne? Yeah I think more optimistic I think obviously the new stadium has helped with Darren and I think the big thing is David Moyes come back I think he's come back, he knows the club he knows the culture of the football club and then I think the signings have been really good they look dangerous now Everton going forward with Grealish he said Alcares and they look really dangerous going forward, and solid as well at the back.

13:01So, yeah, I think Everton can go there and get to it. They have to be at the best and defensively defend as a union and be hard to beat. But Moisey's teams normally do that, so they have to be the best. But yeah, it'd be the perfect start to your Saturday, 12.30 kick-off. I'm sure all the pubs will be full and ready for the game and hopefully we can get the three points. Take a draw. Take a draw now. I tracked a bit there. Being confident, then take a draw. Yeah, still take a draw, yeah. Have you got any family and friends going to that one? Because I know you've already been moaning off camera that you've got a long old day at Match of the Day on Saturday.

13:41Not moaning, but just pointing out. No, as you said, there's like seven games on Saturday. So, yeah, I'll be watching the Derby there, the BBC studios. But, yeah, there'll be family and friends going. All my family are Evertonians. and all Colleen's family live Podlian. So it's, yeah, it's always... How was that when you were playing in it, if all of her family live Podlian's? Yeah, fine. We're not an issue, really. We actually, when we got the Champions League final in Moscow, one of Colleen's brothers wouldn't go. He refused to go, so Colleen, her dad, one of her brothers went and her other brother wouldn't go.

14:25And he said to me, I want you to do well, but I couldn't bear being at the stadium watching Man United lift the Champions League if he was a winner. So, yeah, he didn't go. I kind of respect that, actually. Yeah. No, I do, actually. When Liverpool won, what was it? When he won the Premier League a few years ago, I actually come home. I was at Derby, I think, at the time. And I come home and clean Liverpool flags up outside of the house. So how fuming were you? So it was at, it was at all. So outside the front door, there's like a little balcony thing in the flag was outside the window there. So I told her to go and get it down.

15:09So she went up and you had to actually climb out the window to get it down. So she went up. So I locked her out. How long for? No, not too long, but yeah, she was stuck on the balcony, but yeah. And like now even, I think now still Colleen's mum and dad's he's got he's got champion flags up at the house so yeah there's Liverpool around but yeah it's old man at Evertonians Final important question who are you going to be captaining in your fantasy team? Well you see it worked didn't I putting Harland in Is it going to be Mo Salah this week? No I'm going to have to take him out Really? You will take him out?

15:50Yeah I need to take him out does it feel wrong yeah I can't have him against Everton so I'll have to take him out yeah I actually haven't looked at the I haven't looked at it properly so I'll have good luck to them

16:05Kae Kurd:I don't know how you do it that takes up way too much time do you know what in previous years I've been in leagues and I'm actually not even in the league I'm just doing it by myself so I don't even know what's the point who are you playing against no I'm just I don't know I'm just doing it for just for a thrill yeah I was in leagues and I'd get halfway to the season and stop doing it. So I'd end up finishing bottom and I'd have all four fits to do. What's your team name? I actually don't know. He's checking his phone. I actually don't know what he's doing. Waza 10. We need to improve on that.

16:44If anyone's listening to this and wants to send team name suggestions in for Wayne, we need to sort out. if I saw

16:51Kae Kurd:if I saw Waza 10 on any league I think that was a fake profile see it's a dumb bluff I don't think they can find you they need your actual team ID don't worry you can go incognito you can captain Salah this weekend and no one will know no but I wouldn't do that anyway

17:14okay well maybe you want to captain Erling Haaland this weekend or maybe not because of course he's got a big game away at the Emirates. Arsenal taking on Manchester City. We touched upon it before, but this is often, Kay, in recent seasons, been kind of what was one of the games that could potentially decide the title at times. Or it feels like a few times for Arsenal, this has been where their season has maybe changed a little bit. It's a bit early this season for that, maybe, though.

17:39Kae Kurd:But I do think it's very important. I think often when they go into these games, Arsenal are happy with a draw. Whereas I think with a team like Manchester City, if you're trying to do better than them in the league, you sort of want to set a standard. If you beat them, I think psychologically it does a lot for your team and it does a lot for your position as well because they sort of look at you and go, oh, wow, these are actually really good. I don't know what it was like when you were playing, Wayne, but I'm sure if you got one over Arsenal or one over Chelsea, in your heads, you were like, we're winning the league.

18:13Yeah. No, I don't think you get carried away this early in the season but it's always nice to go and win there and make a statement. I think in this game, I think if Manchester City win this game, I think Arsenal, Liverpool will be looking and thinking, you know, this is not good this because obviously with Guardiola's reputation of the titles he's won, obviously the way Manchester City beat Manchester United and then if they go on and beat Arsenal, I think that's a real statement from them because they have looked a bit indifferent this season and a little bit sloppy at times. But I think if they go and beat Arsenal at the weekend, I think that's a huge statement to everyone in the league.

18:55They're still right in this title race. So I think it's a more important game for Manchester City than Arsenal.

19:03Kae Kurd:Do you think the amount of rest time they had is going to be crucial to this as well? Was it three days? Arsenal played Tuesday night, didn't they? City played Thursday. I think players and managers as well. they moan too much over it listen three days is more than enough what are we we're still in September and so you can't be talking about you know not having enough rest when you're going off going and playing in the Club World Cup for instance and that's the choice you make and so I hope there's only any managers especially played in the Club World Cup you know moaning about the amount of games because you've chose to go and do that and give your players less rest.

19:46So, yeah, I don't think that'll be an issue. I think it's... Well, it shouldn't be. If you can't have three days rest and be up for a big game, then you shouldn't be playing in it. Just a quick word on Arsenal, Wayne, because they got that big win in the Champions League earlier in the week. I just wondered what you'd made of the start that Noni Medueke has made in particular there because he got a bit of... Well, a lot of unfair heat from the Arsenal fans when he joined. But he's had a brilliant start, hasn't he, for both club and country? Yeah, I think he's been fantastic.

20:20I still have my doubts on him, I'll be honest, when he was at Chelsea. And then when Arsenal signed him, I was thinking, I'm not really too sure. Obviously, they have Saka there as well. But I think he's been fantastic. I think the start of the season is how direct he's been. And for England, I thought he played really well as well. so it looks like really good business for Arsenal. They've got strength in depth now that maybe they didn't have in the past. You saw it with Martinelli coming off the bench on Tuesday. It just feels like they've added that to their squad. Yeah, they have and I think it's now or never for Arteta, if I'm being honest.

20:56I think he has to win something major this season, in my opinion, because he has spent a lot of money, brought a lot of players in and he's probably got the best squad in the league. You think they've got the best squad in the league? I think, yeah. The most balanced squad and players for each position. So I think it's a big pressure for him now to win the league. And I think Arsenal have given him everything he can to go and do it. So I think it's on him and the players to go and try and win them.

21:29Kae Kurd:Yeah, there's not a lot of excuses left now, is there? So they've got to go into this match with a lot of pride and go out and make a statement. Confidence as well, given the fact that they're at home, given the fact they won in midweek. Yeah, well, they've started the season really well. I think, obviously, Liverpool winning all the games, but Arsenal's only blip has been at Anfield, which could win either way, really. The game, both teams weren't great in that. So, I think they've had a really good start and I'm sure, you know, Arteta will be pleased. They'll be disappointed with the one loss, but I think other than that, they've had a really good start in the league.

22:07Kae Kurd:I was going to ask, Wayne, do you like it when games have a bit of needle in it especially when you were playing of course he does yeah I love it you know when we used to play against Chelsea with Mourinho's teams and obviously Arsenal for a period of time with Wenger's teams Liverpool Benitez you know you've seen how heated it got in press conferences with the managers and stuff like that so yeah them games were always the best to play it in you know your concentration levels in them games has to be very high because you get punished for switching off. What was your favourite grudge match? He loved them all.

22:47No, I'd probably say the first couple of years at Man United against Arsenal because it was, I arrived here after the ball attack van Nistelrooy and so for a couple of years there that was, and there was, you know, the, Pete to get in front of Alex Ferguson and there was a couple of scraps in the tunnel and stuff like that. So, yeah, that was, that couple of years was probably the best one.

23:14Kae Kurd:Talking about scraps in a tunnel, I saw Emil Husky in a podcast saying that you got into a scrap in a tunnel.

23:24The police actually come, you know, the police come to Belfield. Really? Yeah, the police come to Belfield and ask me questions on that. I was hard on my knuckle at the time, but yeah. Did they just come and ask for you to sign their shirt? No, they were coming asking me what happened in the tunnel, obviously in Turkey. Tell us what happened then. There was a bit of a fight and that was it. You didn't see, no? No.