Jordan Pickford on World Cup Dreams & Everton’s Rise

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1:13Yeah, I'm going to Finch Farm to see Jordan Pickford. Watch him train a little bit and it should be good. Jordan's normally good fun, so hopefully, I'm sure he will be able to perform. The first time I met him was when he got in the England squad. He was a young lad then and you could see he had ability obviously, but he was still very young. If you would have fast forwarded to today, he would never have said that he would have played the amount of games he's played for England and been as influential as he has for England, so his career has been brilliant. We stand on here so I'd love to see you.

1:55How are you? Good. Come on, I'll see you in a bit, Jim. Hello. What's up, man? You all right? All good? How are you? All good. Keeping well? How are you? Telling a few stories about me, weren't you, on your podcast about... Back in Ireland? No, about my WhatsApp. Oh, yeah. I remember that like it was yesterday. Just get a coffee. Yeah, come on. Yeah, let's do it. How's Jags? All right? Yeah, he was good. Was he just on for that, just the podcast? Are you going out on the pitch? Just with the keepers, yes. He's already said he can't have any. Oh, come on. He's getting his excuses in. Jordan, are you saying you're not going to dive or try for his shots?

2:35Nah, you've got to get in for a couple of shots. He reverses it and all he does every time. Come on, you've got to get in for a couple of shots. OK, so what's the maximum touches? Three, one, easy. Or two by yourself. The serve.

2:52Oh, she smashed it, yeah. All right?

2:58Pickers, thanks for coming on the show, mate. Really appreciate it. No worries. Before we get started and go into everything, I've just done a little session with yous. Yeah, cos I've always wondered when I was a player, keepers are always separate, aren't they? Yeah. It always looked quite boring. Like, I used to look across and think, I'd hate to be a goalkeeper. But it was actually a bit of fun. Yeah, like, the session Dave put on there today is good. and we kind of do similar things like that all week so we'll end up thinking we're centre forwards in a couple of drills but the session gets put on for us to have a bit of fun but work hard and you feel your heart rate going up and we always start off with a head tennis two touches or something we always start with something a bit of fun and we get into it so we always try and keep it going How's my cycling?

3:44Do you think I can be a goalie coach? Oh of course Sally's safe like Still got the back spit Have you told me to Tone it down a little before? No, I was alright The lads were alright I think they were expecting you Just going to absolutely Wobble ball it But You had the goalkeeping Coach technique Definitely Normally Them sessions are decent I'm going to go back to I think it was the first time I met you Properly really It was when you got In the England squad And I always remember Sat there And got on the bus The first time And you come and sit I didn't know, I knew a couple of lads, Keanu was in the squad, but every seat was taken because I came late.

4:25You shouldn't be late, should you? I wasn't late, was I? I got called up late, was. I think it was Slovenia away, Harty made that worldy. I remember you getting on the bus and we'd gone through a period of, and I'm not being disrespectful to the goalkeepers we had before, where we didn't really know. Hardy was obviously number one. But then we didn't have many goalkeepers. Before we had David James, Paul Robinson, Robert Green, Ben Foster, Scott Carson. And then Hardy made it the number one position. And then underneath that, I don't think we really had much coming through. And then obviously you was a young lad.

4:58Was that Sullen? Yes, so how old was you then? Had I been 21, 22? So it's young to get into the youngs, wasn't it? A goalkeeper, I always remember thinking, what's he like? And I couldn't wait to get on the tight end pitch and try and think he or something. I was more nervous when you said to me, are you ready for the song later? I'm your ****. Sorry. You know, for me, I was... watching you grow up... When I was watching you in the Euros and that, getting in the England squad, everyone looked up at you. So even, like, there, I was, like, finger-foot, I was just... I sat opposite Wasa. I was, like, shaking.

5:33But no, it was, like, experiences. I remember going out there, I think. I think Hearty made an absolute worldie. I think half we drew. I was on the bench and it was just a great experience. Even the night before, I think you were playing Wolf, weren't you? In the hotel. I'm still no good at that now. That came quite late when I was in the squad. You're still playing that now, aren't you? Yeah, full on. Traitor style now. Is it? Yeah. But for Keeper, it must be weird because what goes through your mind in thinking like, when do I come in? when do I have to move or when am I going to get in the team?

6:11That's different, I think, for an outfield player. You have to think differently on being a player. Yeah, I was... So I've kind of broke into Sunderland in the first team that year. Vito Minone was the keeper at the time. The year before, Big Samuels manager, we steered up. And Vito was brilliant. And our gaffer now, Moise, he came in and... Vito got injured, unfortunately, but that was my... I kind of had a chance then. and still relatively young as a goalkeeper. And I had to make a massive impact quickly. And it kind of all went from there, really. Then that year, we got relegated at Sunderland and the opportunity came to come to Everton.

6:49And that was, I think I made my debut that year in November camp. But it was, for me, Harty was my role model looking up, the way his pathway, his loan moves. I know he went to Birmingham permanently, then went to Man City, then back to Birmingham. But as a keeper, I've always said, you've got to go out and loan and you know you're not going to break in as a 17, 18 year old keeper in the Prem, it's very rare compared to an outfield player so you've got to go out there and get your loan moved so I've always looked up with Harty and his pathway, we kind of try to have that same pathway as me as a young 16, 17 year old, that was the route Harty took so I kind of went on a similar route So you joined Everton in 2017, same year as me then?

7:34Yeah, yeah, same, yeah. We signed some players then, didn't we? I think we signed five number tens. Yeah, I know, yeah. So that's a big move, isn't it? Yeah. And you were a young lad as well? Yeah, I was young. I think there was a price tag on me, you know, when I'm being bought at the time, the most expensive British keeper. So there's that pressure. I've always enjoyed the pressure, really. I'm like, when I've like called upon and, you know, I knew I had to do something early to get the fans behind me and even your first game. but we won 1-0 and you score the header and Shaqiri's 88th minute have made a decent save in me for first home Premier League game at Goodison so I set myself off on a good stall really It was tough weren't it that first season because obviously Ronald Koeman got sacked Undi actually dropped me for every reason for Benny Beningamy I got dropped and then Big Sam come in after my end of the season second half season he's done well didn't me but at the time I thought that could be Everton and England's number one goalkeeper for a long time here.

8:38How did you feel your first season went? And then did you feel like that was the platform for you moving forward for both Everton and England? Yeah, definitely. I think for me it was, my dream was to play for England. Everyone's kid growing up and we know there's only that small percentage of a kid growing up gets that opportunity. But I come to Everton and I knew I had to do well and I knew England was there or thereabouts for me. because I went from 16 to 20 all the way through 21 is the pathway for England. I got my opportunity against Germany at Wembley and made my debut then. March camp, we played Holland away or Brazil at home.

9:18Gareth and Marge, the keeper coach at the time, they asked me which game I wanted, what I like to play in. For me, I picked Netherlands straight away. I thought, I've played at Wembley, I need to go and play away. It was brilliant. I think we won 1-0. Jesse scored and that led us into the World Cup. So for Everton to have England's number one, so going into the next year now, you've established England's number one. Does that bring a pressure to you? Add a pressure for Everton when you're playing for Everton as well? Yeah, I think I've got to accept my performances. I've got to keep improving and that's why I've sustained it for so long.

9:54I've never just been happy about being number one. it's like how do I be number one for that mountain of years? Just hitting targets, 20, 26 World Cups a target. Then after that, it'll be what's my next target to keep improving and keep pushing myself, pushing them boundaries when I'm out there to improve on the training pitch, to keep going as long as I can. And that's what I think I've put a lot of work in, you know, away from Everton and keeping right to keep me pushing forward. I think there's a lot of people saying why? I don't agree as well but why haven't you moved on from Everton yeah I think that's because you've been here what nine years yeah nine years and you've just signed a new a new tier deal this year which is great for obviously for Everton for yourself but for you to be so loyal to what you have been to the club it's quite rare I think in these days where a player stays loyal and stays true because with your ability you can say do you want to go and play Champions League but you've stuck with Everton why is it do you love it here do you enjoy it here Yeah, I think we've just got that bond, really.

10:57You know what it's like here. The Gaffer calls at the People's Club and it's been renamed that. The staff's brilliant. Where we live and going to the games, I think we just love it. The family love it, you know. They've bought into my family, everything they do around the place. And we know as Everton we should be in the European spots, but we know how hard it's been over the last few years and the roller coaster we've been on. But they've been nothing but good to me, you know. coming they took a chance on me as a 22 year old kid and you know i've repaid them back i think and i just love being here and goodison's great memories and the new stadium there's it's moving forward and like you say when when you came back when i first signed when you wrote the league so if we sustained that then them questions wouldn't happen i don't think people realize how such a big club everything is.

11:47Yeah, obviously I completely agree. And then the last few years, I think this year, obviously, I think since the manager's come back in, you've seen it's rising again, isn't it? The last few years was tough. Yeah, it's definitely tough. Like quite enjoyable as all, because you know points deductions, you've got to roll your sleeves up, you've got to get after it. So there's different pressures all the time in the Prem. Every time you play football, I feel like there's different pressures. because you've got the lads at the top competing to win the title, which is a pressure in itself. Then you've got fighting relegation with points deductions.

12:23It's tough as well. So there's two different pressures. It was tough, but I think it's a credit to us as lads and whoever the manager was. If it was Frank at the time, it was Daesh. Everyone did the job, everyone around the building. Because it wasn't just the player. I think the whole club was affected. and this season has been weight off our shoulders and I think you can see by the performances and what the gaffer's doing now with us and where we are on the table. In probably two or three seasons, it was very tough. I remember looking in and I'm thinking, who's the leaders in that restroom? Did you have conversations with each other to try and lift?

13:06Yeah, I think, well, Seamus. like for his the things he always do the conversations he had the passion he has for this football club you'll never see it anywhere else in football for me I'll always I'll never forget I think it was the Crystal Palace game we went 2-0 down at half time but before that game Seamus got everyone a thought of everybody and saying you were that lad from wherever you were from playing growing up you dreamed of playing in Premier League and you just did a speech Was yours in the workman's band club? Mine was the workman's band club with a shandy and a pool cue in my end but yeah like just stuff like that like what she and me did then then it was funny because he said 2-0 down at half time it wasn't working was it?

13:54but like no yeah so but then there's different leaders as you've seen it in that you need leaders to step up score goals get on the half turn confident with the ball vocal everyone's got a lead and you've got to have more than one leader on the pitch but I can't give Sheamus a good enough credit for that lads stepped up at the right time Dukes even the I remember the Palace game was I was pagged after that game I was on a flight I was drained and then there was a scouser on the plane and he's come up saying we're losing 2-1 and so we're with the kids in there and then as we were waiting for the bags the bags come and he said it's 3-2 we'd all run round jumping around getting the bags but it was brilliant in the end but how has the art of goalkeeping changed.

14:39I think you've got the perfect balance where you're good with your feet but you don't overdo it and some keepers try and overdo it some keepers are just going along. Is there a difference when you're playing here to at England you have a lot more possession is there a difference in both roles? Yeah there's definitely a difference I think we're probably more possession based team at England to Everton but I think as a goalkeeper a lot that I think it comes down to game management a lot of the time. It's something I've definitely, from that 22-year-old lad playing after the run and moving to Everton, it's probably, in decision making, it's probably the biggest thing I've improved on in managing the game and scenarios in the game.

15:20But yeah, the possession side of it, I'm really comfortable with and I think everyone knows I can kick it a long way as well. So I think I've definitely got a good balance. I don't know, for me, it's nothing better if you're playing a 20, 30 yarder through the line and breaking the line as a keeper. I know the gaffer, I don't think our gaffer would like it but I like doing it in training and stuff but if it's on, for me I've always been that, if I see something I'll see that little movement I'm playing it. Keepers become more important in terms of possession? Definitely, even like it's a bit difficult, sometimes a bit difficult at home so I might be waiting for the ball and I'm waiting for someone to jump and then I'm waiting for someone else to move to get someone else free but then sometimes I'm if someone doesn't make that movement when he's jumped then it's like I might end up putting something like you're stuttering yeah stuttering a bit but yeah I like so it's just that balance of when do I dribble and drive and take it with me or when do I hold hold weight and play the bounce pass but I like doing both I like I've played that one I think man sit the other week for I think my first kick of the game and they have half decent pressure and I've seen Mika Lenko make a little movement up there and I've played like a drill over Semenyo's head and I thought, oh, I'm in the game here.

16:36Yeah. Because I felt like I was right in it there straight away. Obviously, the last day at Goodison, last game, I was sat on the pitch and started tearing up and probably like, what are you doing? I always said that, obviously, I didn't think I would. How special was Daphia, the last game? You know what, I loved about the game and this show, you're important for the majority of the game, they're singing your song. That must have felt special. Yeah, it was with Min when I first started seeing that at Fulham away and leading that into the last game, even now at the news. But the last game at Goodison, it's part of like, you know, since I've been here we've not won anything.

17:12I think Everton's always been too far away from Silverware since what we were as a history of the club. We've not won anything for so long and that's what we need back. But to be a part of history, when you look back, I was getting the opportunity to play the last game at Goodison and bringing all the ex-players back and seeing faces and who I've played with and ex-players who've won stuff here. It was a great day and brilliant, but the sun was bouncing, wasn't it? My head was burning. I got my dress code wrong because I had a thick jacket on and it was absolutely gross and I was sweating. I think that's why I was crying.

17:48But then the new stadium, moving into that, I've been a few times this season, I remember them talking. when I joined Everton Academy, I was nine, and I remember them talking then about moving into a new stadium. So to finally see it, to go and watch the games, and I think the atmosphere has been brilliant, the games I've been to. So that was always the concern for me, like how do you recreate... I think it's been brilliant. I think we've been a bit hard done by the fixtures and the timings. I think Evertonians, you know, they live for the games on the weekend and they make the whole weekend about enjoying it.

18:23Saturday going for a pint before the games and when we win it's their weekends made like and I think fixes changes to Sundays, Mondays, I think we've only had two or three Saturdays at three o 'clock so I think that's been a difficult drive in itself but when the atmosphere is growing I think the Chelsea one at home was Saturday at half five that you can you know that remind me of Goodison and think about it Everton fans are always passionate we've got another 12 ,000-14 ,000 in there now. So it's going to ramp up and the style of me at the stadium is a special life. I've really enjoyed the games there and I think they've done a really good job, recreating that atmosphere.

19:05It is a special life and the atmosphere has been good. Hopefully I'll get some better fixtures next season.

19:14Well the World Cup, excited? Yeah, can't wait. Some experience. In terms of preparations now, is there anything on your mind on the work-up or are you focused now? I still, like, even my mum right now, like, she'll text me saying, text is when you've got that text that you're being called up, and then she'll always say, well done, when she sees it announced, you know, on the social media and stuff. So I've always got that pressure of, like, wanting to see and, like, letting my mum know, and, but I feel like I still like to have that pressure of getting picked, because I keep wanting to improve.

19:47So now my focus is literally finish this season strong two, solid performances, have a little break, break, then get into it. That break I'll be switching into it slowly then because it's still 17 days before the first game. So I'll game myself up. But it's going to be a different experience. Think about all the travelling and the heat. When I go back to the England goalkeepers You've got Shelton Banks, Ray Clements Ian Harty had a good stint And I'm genuinely saying this I think for me I think over these next few years You could establish yourself as England's greatest ever goalkeeper I really believe that We talked earlier as well about the pressure There's no more pressure Than being the England number one In a major tournament And I think the biggest thing is I'm a passionate lad Everyone might think I'm too passionate, but I think that brings the best out of me.

20:48I'm a fan as well. I've grown up watching the Euros and World Cups. I've been around barbecues, been to pubs, watching as a young lad. There's nothing better than me having that opportunity to play in them. I think that's where I step up, and that's where my mentality shows. There's nothing better than the fans behind the goal and cheering us on. and the experience, the journey you go on, you know, it's like when we've been there, it's like we've never, not once in all the tournaments have, because if we're in the knockouts, I'll never pack my bag. I'll always just leave it and I know I'm going back to base because I know we're going to win.

21:26I've got that mentality that we're going to win and we're going to go so far. You've been so close, haven't you? Yeah. That must drive you on to get so close. Yeah. Obviously the Euros at Wembley. He was so close to winning. That was so close. I remember we played Italy in the quarterfinal, the Euros, and I was coming up against Buffon, and he was pointing to me to the side where I was going. Yeah. And I was thinking, what do I do here? Do I go that way? Do I go the other way? Is he getting in my head? It's my game, didn't I? I was quite nervous, actually, before that. It's the same for a keeper can be the hero, can't he?

22:04Yeah, I think there's probably definitely a lot more pressure on the taker. I think we've got it like for me, I just do me process. I do me same. Every pen, I do me same process. When I walk over, take me time. I try and get there a bit late to like make them wait a bit longer. But some referees can be a bit iffy on it. But yeah, I just make sure I do me same process and try and just like look in their eyes really and just put fear in them. I think they'll know I'm good at saving pens. so they've got to execute that pen so their pressure's going to be higher. But as long as I do my same process, I'm always confident that me, not a day of life, but I've let you score too, but I'm always confident with me power and me agility I'll get across the ball and if I get the right way, I'll always have an opportunity to save.

22:54Do you know the difference for outfield players in having a keeper and the trust in a keeper? Say you're going to a penalty shootout, The difference I had in 2008, I was still nervous obviously, but when we won the Champions League with van der Sar. Having a keeper you trust and you think, right, we know he's going to save one or two, yeah. So we score, that makes a massive difference, you know, I don't know if you know that as a keeper. No, I know. I'm like, I know I can save these. I'm going to save though. I'll focus on doing my job and getting one or two saves. I might only need one. Because when you trust the lads, taking them the process they've went through and the time they've put the practice in, they'll now nail them and I might only need to save that one but I know I'll get an opportunity to save at least one and that'll be the big change in the game Well we don't want to go into too much detail on it because No, keep our cards close Keep them under wraps and then when you win it for us we'll speak after That's another podcast I actually think going into this World Cup I think you'll have a chance to enjoy it more and the reason I say that is I think when I've been to World Cups or Euros in different places and know what the state is like and I think you will be able to have a bit of you know in your downtown relax a little bit more and and we get out the hotel sometimes you feel you're stuck in the hotel and you look like you've got a good group there good group of players good camp and then obviously Tuchel coming to start with his experience how has he been?

24:21No he's been brilliant I think it's his first tournament so we're never gonna we're going into it all together but he'd been brilliant and he pushes us every day even in training meetings but he also likes that togetherness side outside of the training so when we work we'll be working properly but you'll also want us to enjoy the downtime whether that's playing golf going for a walk having a coffee or going for a team meal I think we'll probably be a bit more open to it like we have in the past in some of the cities we've been to it does get like that But then I've got to give a lot of credit to the staff at England, the FA.

24:58They do everything for you, for that base camp, that hotel. They make you as good as they can and I think they put a lot of effort into it, you know, what a lot of people in the world don't see. You know, they'll try and do everything that we ask for, if not more. And even just little things like last camp in March, they send a box home with a letter to give to your family, then just a few gifts and like so like like when we get a Kansas in our base camp they'll be like they'll have like your room like with your family like pictures of your kids and that and what you what you like if it's sweets or harry rose whatever it's like or there's like little things like like small like details what like you know goes along with definitely when's the last time you wrote a letter me have you seen me right now i'll be fair like yeah like just like letters and I think just like that thing.

25:52That's nice because I think that's more personal isn't it? Yeah. You've got your phones and that but like, it'll be like, you get like, even Mrs. like last tournament like, got me mates to write letters and stuff as well. It wasn't just like me family, it was like me mates and like, I remember when we were doing this as kids and like, look where you are now. And so like, you go back to yourself as a young kid and like never forget who you are. How's the FA, how's it changed? Has it changed over them years you've been there? Yeah, I think it was like that. I think it kind of went like that from when you were in it.

26:27I think everyone says there was always that divide and that, them clicks and stuff around probably your era. I think the togetherness we have as lads, it could be anyone just crack on with everybody, everyone just gets on with each other. But I think also down to the FA, like making it so good environment the environment's massive yeah especially when you're here for that long so we've got beat in the final and um italy at wembley we're in covert times weren't we so we went we didn't see our family or anybody for like five six weeks so and we still enjoyed it then so like imagine what we've got in the states where we can probably have a bit more of that freedom when we've got a bit of downtime and uh i think it'll take us a long way yeah no definitely well I remember after Euros final I was seniors in the motel.

27:17In Hilton, yeah. How yous must have felt because to be so near and then have it snatched away, it must... Like I've been in club football and Champions League finals or... Yeah. I think it's different for England, isn't it? To win something in England, it brings you something which obviously only a small amount of people have done. Do you know what will come if that happens, if you do that? It'll be legends for life. But I think, like you say, it's like, you're so close, you know, and it does hurt, but it's got to drive you. That hurt's got to drive you to go and, you know, that we've talked about before, like leaders in the squad, and you've got the experience in the squad.